"Dusty Pink" (w/ Harvey Guillén)

Look, Mayer, Oh, I see you my own look over there is that culture yess wow, lost culture ding dong lost Culturesta's calling. Wait. We both were really in our own mask saying that.

You know what's happening lately? What And it's not that I mind him just putting it out. You have been starting very high in a high register, you go ding dong, and I always just want to meet you where you're at. Let me tell you you raised me up in the words of.

Yes who always uses the mask. Okay, so well, can I tell you something about growing up a queer child.

I don't know a thing about it.

Tell me. Listen to everyone, everyone that's listening to the podcast sort of gathering. I'm gonna tell you something about being a queer child. Come, you're a queer child specifically from like a part of the country where like guys talk like this. You know what I'm talking about. So it's this idea that when you are a person who is like speaking in a lower voice all day, is that it's node zone. You're going straight to Nodestown. And

The mask, use the mask. Well, I thank you for inspiring me the community. I feel like I have been. I've just been finding myself, meaning me up here. And it's so funny if you listen, and I know we bring this up every quarter or so, go back and listen to the old episodes.

We are Yeah, we are young. The voices sound sprightly, young, full of hope. Oh isn't it interesting you in particular? I know your voice weird an octaviiger. It's so strange in the beginning. Huh, what do you think that is age? The year? The years?

It's inhaling thing, Oh, big time, I think it's that.

Yeah. Inhalance are very dangerous. Yeah, such a really culture number nine. Inhalence are very dangerous. What's her favorite drug to do?

You know, if the brain could handle it. Anything that like gives me a little rush of poppers.

You love poppers?

I don't love poppers really, especially after hearing your journey with it, I'm like, I gotta avoid it.

What's my journey with it?

I don't want to you've talked about it.

M hmm.

Your journey with it is that it's present and that we I also reach for it. I used to reach for it too often during during masturbatory times, and it kind of it sets too much of a pattern that like you kind of need it as a crutch if you are if you happen to be with other people.

Yeah, this is actually a thing I struggled with and I would love to hear. I guess thought about pop culture. Yes, yeah, I mean the thing about popper's culture is you do they are so useful, Yes, when you need them, and then but then they're they're so good when you do need them. You know, I often feel you need them during sex. Okay, let's have an LGBTQ podcast moment. When you are having receptive anal sex, you simply need the help. Sure, and sometimes it helps, But isn't it.

Great when you don't it's so greatful when it's just like, oh they didn't even spit for that one.

Oh my god, Bowen, I think there is.

I'm it's happened like once or twice in my life, like with Noor, where it's just like.

There's nothing, let's just do it, you know, and then and then it works. It has happened to me too, now that I think about it, and it's true. It's like when you really want it, you don't need anything. Our guest is a icon.

I am so happy that our guest is here. This is someone who I hesitate to call him like appear in our cohort or anything like that. But like we stood in line for the press line at the Critics Choice, yes we did, had a grand time. Yeah, and it was kind of just like a oh but oh, this this is someone who is so fucking good, very good, and like I just I'm like, oh my god, Like this is like I don't know what to do with myself, Like this is so cool. You were starstruck, was very starstruck.

You know, Ariana, You're absolutely right, and it looks stunning, fantastic.

Oh my god, you have to talk about this. Oh we need to know about that.

What I need to know about what it's like to be on the ground at the met gala. So we're going to talk about that for forty five minutes, yes, and then forty five minutes of poppers.

And that's it, And that's it.

You know him, you love him from what we do in the Shadows. Renewed for not just season five, which is coming this summer, but also season six.

So we just want to blast that out for people because there seems to be confusion about when it's coming back. How many more seasons we're getting two more.

We're hitting two more at least at least And this is one of the television's funniest programs, thank god for it.

It's not a comedy that's like concerned with being particularly cool or sexier viby.

No, it's saying I'm funny.

It's saying we're all funny people. We're all adults here.

Yeah, Hey, we're all adults here and we're all funny. So drop the bullshit and the drama. Drop the drama, drop the drama. Why don't people say that more comedy should be saying drop the drama, thank you. You know where I want the drama dropped?

Where comedy comedies you're gonna name names?

Because then I think there's another there's another fun way you could go like, oh my god, did you see they drop the drama? And that's good?

Isn't awful that it does not work both ways? Where like if you have a drama like Succession and you go, well, that's the funniest show too, It's like, how does it happen to like it's easier to infuse comedy and drama than an to put drama in comedy.

Well, I think that when writers are given the opportunity, yeah, to really do what they do and be creative, and when they're getting a fair deal, well we might see even more of that thank you. But I'm waiting and I'm looking at my watch.

The alliance more like the flop say that I'm a writer, I'm in the guilt.

Okay. Puss in Boots, the Last Wish. Puss in Boots The Last Wish hademi Award nominated. And there's one thing we can now we announce that there's something we can't announce. Yes, I think so we can announce that there is something we cannot announce. This a major announcement. There is something we cannot.

Announce that our guest is involved in that will be announced. That will be announced.

We don't know when we're not.

When it is announced.

Trust Trust, you will be dealt with. You will be dealt with well, Ladies and gentlemen and non binary friends. Everyone out there, however you identify, Katie's readers, finalists, publicists, everyone out there. I want you all to stand up. Stand in the car. If you're listening to this in the car, stand up. Don't actually stay a dress.

Well, I thought i'd try.

Please, Welcome to your ears, Welcome to the Thunderdome. Thank you for that.

Was that was probably the best introduction I've ever heard.

Really really, it really was. It went through like everything and I poppers and and and and talking about shadows, and then it was great. Thoughts on poppers.

I actually my boyfriend hates poppers.

They're not involved and involved and I really don't like.

Yeah, I feel like sometimes it could become like a crutch, Like it's like I don't particularly like run to poppers. But it does help, you know, in that moment and then so for me, I feel transpar It was like, oh, you know, it might help. And but since I'm with somebody that's like, I can't stand this. I can't stand it. He has this really funny story that you're gonna tell, you tell I'm sure he's finding in the past, like

Left like in the middle of wow, of the hook up.

Yeah, so they were just like and then I was like, Wow, It's like imagine being that guy and just being like, oh, what happened and it's like, yeah, I have to go.

No, real, God, that is kind of beautiful.

I loved that he was honest about that. And I'm sure she wouldn't mind.

No, sure, not at all.

He said it in front of her, and so you said it in.

Front of a crowd of thousands.

But you know that thing of you take a whiff and you can feel like the little cubic centimeter of your brain dying. You can feel exactly where the gray matter is gone. You're never gonna get those cells back. Yeah, You're never gonna get those brain cells back.

Yeah.

I was even funny that, like the numbers for sales probably go through the roof, and no one's asking, like we don't have the HS tapes anywhere.

Well, someone said to me, like I pitched the idea of using them with someone I hooked up with like six to seven months ago. And the guy was a little bit older, and he said, what is it the seventies? Oh?

Yeah it is.

I was like it could drugs are bad?

Was there VHS in the seventies?

Was it eighties? I think that his reference was off, and also yeah, he overshot and he's like, what is it the seventies? And I was just like, oh, okay.

And the Winchester wasn't around in the seventies or but nice trial.

Two extremes, right, People are either for them and people are like what is this? And it's like that's really extreme, Like both sides are like they have their reasons.

I'm excited to tell you guys who that was? Oh interesting?

Should we leave that in? I didn't say that, no, no, no, but you can hear. You can hear a camera came.

Just put just put over that. Oh my god, you know the cameras on camera right now? No, no, no, no, no no, no, they're not live. Okay, Producer Becker confirms we're not being filmed. God, but in surveillance America. I don't think in a police state. I'm asking the question because I just said a B lister and I hooked up.

Well, then that narrows it down.

Oh you're getting raised. We can't protect it. And narrow went down to all the gay B listers. Who did Matt hook up with?

Is that?

Yeah? Now, well now I'm thinking, is that person B list? I think list is right? I don't. I don't. I don't care for the letter. Don't like that, you don't like that? How do you identify? What do you identify as?

He?

Identify him? Lest him? Lest like the list thing is too funny because it is funny. I like, you know the.

List, But it's also like people go up that list and down that list, And it would be really kind of weird to hear someone say give it up for Harvey, And.

That would be weird because even though they've qualified you as being on the list at all, it's still is like, well, what would I have to do to move up on the list? And also she was I would argue that Kathy Griffin at least be lists.

I think she was over correcting it and self aware, like it'll get a laugh.

If it was a time where like that was so important to be that like letter. Remember there was a whole show like The A List New York. Like it was like they're all like, it's just like the idea of that, you.

Know, do you want to know some tea? Yeah? The Real Friends of who was was named that later on. It was originally just a reboot of The A List. It was That's what I thought.

I was like, it has a feeling like this is the West Coast version of what we saw.

Yes, and then they they changed it to be like referencing the Housewives of it all. Sure story.

I saw an episode of The A List years ago and that's how I found out that one of my exes was a go go dancer because they were featured on it featured that's so beautiful. But like after we had broken up and say friends, but they kept that part I guess not conversational and I was like, I think I saw you on an episode.

I was like, oh yeah in Fire Island. I was like yeah.

It was like, yeah, that's end the summer, and I was.

Like, oh cool, that is like that is like hallowed air though for him to be oh fire Island, Go Go dancer.

Yeah, that's lucrative. That's six figures.

That's what he said, that they would go for the summer and you don't have to work the rest of the year.

Oh my Tomas would go to Pines party and they would just like dance and they'd be like, look, I like I made like made I made run. Yeah.

Also like I was always inspired by I feel like I go back every year and you see sort of the same people working. You do get the sense that it's like a great place to work if you can withstand that times culture.

You wouldn't come back if it wasn't like, you wouldn't put it.

It's one or two nights, you know, one night at the big party and then a couple of nights at like pavilion or whatever, and you're like, okay, I'm done.

I made my check.

But okay, but let's be damned. All that matters for you is that you went to the medala.

That's pretty a less behavior.

Yeah, I was surreal, Like I was literally talking to Donna Talla No just you know, you know my brothers was less friends with Carl and she said that and I was like, listen the idea of this and like, Penelope cruise and I'm a big sucker fractions, So yeah, with an accident.

I was just like, it's probably because knowing his legacy is It's just.

Like, wow, that's good.

It was.

My favorite Penelope moment. Is has anyone ever fainted up here? Because I might be the first I heard she's a chatterbox. Yeah, she was like lovely.

Yeah, it was just like really and she was wearing this beautiful vintage I think it was.

She's so gorgeous, gorgeous.

It was gorgeous and everyone looked amazing, and I was just like it was kind of like weird because the carpet itself is not it's just the steps of the may.

It's not that big. And then what's the experience of the dinner.

I mean I was there with E like as a celebrity.

Guess.

Oh okay, yeah, So like I had to walk the carpet and then I had to actually do like Chloe and I was doing E and so we didly go in and said, so I didn't I had to stay into like the end, which was my hat goes off to like everyone.

And yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I had to stay there and they were waiting for Rihanna showing up, and I was just like, I don't know, it's like.

Last year she was two hours.

Yeah. Wow.

The makell only goes into like nine thirty, I guess, And it's like it's going from like six to nine thirty.

And then the thing is like all the after parties that go on. Yeah, so I want to go to the after party.

So I was like, let's wrap it up, and so Jenoe Mane was doing an after party standard and then that's where it was like Lizza was.

There and like everyone, Yeah that booboom one looked.

Yeah, that was fun, but you're exhausted, like by the end of the day because you started your day like at ten a m.

And you got hair, makeup and that thing is probably.

A lot of adrenaline too, you know what I mean, Like you're like, oh God, it's exciting. Yeah, it's exciting.

Like the photo shoot had a photo shoot for Christians.

Arehanno designed it and it was gorgeous, gorgeous, and I was just really proud to like wear that giant gown and stuff.

But it was heavy, you know.

That shade of pink was so good.

I love it. It was dusty.

How do you describe it. It's like I don't already know.

It's like powder pink.

Uh.

And it was like that tweet kind of a wing to like you know the eighties and Carls had been and so like it was both masculine and feminine, Like it was just like everything was gorgeous.

I love that you went with color, and I mean black and white. Of course it's it's Chanelle, it's Karl. But it's like I love that you went with a color choice.

Yeah, and I went with pink just a little. I love that you were like, how would you just grab that dusty like and what if he was like, yeah, I wore this dusty gown. No, no, you know what I'm saying. Yes, you know what you're saying. But just like thinking about the pole code of like this dusty Well, you know it.

Was because the night was out, you know, honoring Carl and like the hated pink, yeah, or pink because there was you.

Know, we keep the space queer, yeah, and like you know, we honored the work that he did.

Obviously, sometimes it's different to like, you know, separate the beliefs that cose so like he was also you know, he didn't care for people with curves, and he hated the color pink.

And there was a lot of things.

So I wanted to encompass all that and show you that you could make the best dress list in pink plus size.

There you go. Perfect. I love that you stuck it to him a little bit. I was speaking truth to power.

I wanted to show you that it's doable, because for so long it was said that it wasn't.

It's like when a queen on drag Race shows up in green and Michelle's.

Like, ah, she's really too much about the Greens.

It's like she hates she hates love.

Michelle and I guess we haven't even talked on this podcast and can be transparent about it now because I think the episode will have come out. Oh yeah, that we did the show so fun. We were guests on this season of All Stars and you were last.

Seasons season Yeah, which episode wins come back yet challenge?

Fun, which I mean like from day one, I was like.

I was gonna yeah, yeah, like I knew, and she's in l a girl, you know. So I was like, and I saw her at the after party for the Macallan.

Yes, I saw the picture.

It was there, and like I think I was already like tipsy and I was like, oh my gods, gots because that's how it sound.

Yeah.

I think like one glass of like French seventy five or something I don't do, and then you.

Don't eat a rag. Yeah, you know, you ran a Ronald day and then the first thing you do is have a glass of champagne. You're like, oh, maybe not the best. It went right into the head. Yeah. Poppers, yeah right, exactly, a Gali version of poppers that's actually a real culture. Number ninety nine a Friendship five is the met gall version of Poppers. So they shot All Stars season eight, which is the one that we did after this season that you fifteen, and there was even

It's inevitable, like from the get go, like you're like, you can't. I mean, we have that much talent, you know, just oozing out if you're like this is there's no competition.

She was the only winner. Yeah, it's only a handful of queens.

You could look back at, you know, the whole trajectory of drag Race and say, yep, we knew from the gut, you know, like yeah, totally, like you know, Queen Ira Queen from the get go, like you were like, yes that, my focus is always on you, Simon.

Yeah.

So like there's always a handful of queens that happens totally.

Sasha's thing is like she is past, present, future of drag absolutely well. She it's so funny that like the year of Mother. Yeah, and then Sasha Colby wins drag Race and also not for nothing, but like, and she's talked about this, but in this moment where there's such like obvious and widespread attacks on trans people, like I think she said in an interview, like it was definitely

But they moved from Hawaii to LA to do drag Race, and at the time it wasn't something that was accepted like it was like right, it was still one was and so it was a different requirement to be on drag Race, and they couldn't get on drag Race years ago. That's and that could be wrong, but that's the story that I heard interesting, which would be even more powerful totally.

They kept at it and they kept fighting, and now they are the queen.

They are Yeah, and we are looking at them, and you know, tons of trans kits across the world are looking at them.

It's just like inspiration and.

The third trans winner in a row. It's true.

What I appreciate about Drag Race so much is that it is like it has adapted very well, I think. I mean, there have been these like starts and stuffs, but like, what I love about the show is that like season fifteen feels nothing like season ten, which felt nothing like season five. You know, it's still fresh, like it moves along with the culture. I think.

Yeah, yeah, credit where it's due for sure. Yep. I mean like there was a lot of growth. And also the set is a very fun.

Everyone is great. Everyone who works there is wonderful.

Yeah, it was a great experience. I had a great experience.

I love anywhere where I can ride around in a golf cart.

Yeah, fun, you know, I love That's That's one of the things when I'll little, like thinking what it would be like to be an actors, you always see like the backstage, Yeah, like oh my gosh, getting to go.

Like you know, Warner Brothers apparently a lot. Yeah, a lot. I have lunch on the lot. It's just like that is one of my favorite things. You get to go on.

Yeah, what's like production for Shadows? Like how much is it on the casion?

Are you?

Like? What's your time to like prep?

And well the first season they wouldn't give us the scripts ahead of time. Really they were really secretive, even to the actors because I think for the movie they kept it such a secret from the actors that they would get to set and they give them like three lines and they're like, you go, and then they didn't know the story. So the actors didn't know where the

You know what they did.

But on set the first season, since I'm the only human, I wanted to sprinkle like the trajectory of like an emotional arlier you have and it was hard because the vampires can wrap it up in one episode. Like they learned how to use the internet, or they think there's a curse, so they wrap it up in a nice boat. But for are like inclered in especially with a cross shoot.

So then but I didn't know the story in the middle.

So then I'd be like, wait, so we'll be shooting like an episode later in the season and he's a tackle, would be directing. He's like, hey, okay, have it get in the car and you're terrified, And I was like, okay, but where am I terrified? Oh yeah, I can't tell you.

Wow.

I was like, you can't tell me, Like that was the jokes that you couldn't tell me what just happened. But I'm covered in blood and they're like, yeah, we can't.

Just just just go with it.

Just you're terrified.

Now, maybe the fact that you didn't know helps, like with the gearmonness of it, you know what I mean, put upon.

This of it, And like I think it did because looking back, when I look at the first season, I look terrified all the time, and I didn't know what the fuck was going on.

But I would say Gearbo out of all the characters at all the principles, like, it has the big trajectory. I think.

I think it became like after the first season. I didn't know he was a vent Heal's until table read the day before we started film. Huh, And so I got the script.

And I was like, oh, what's happening that? Yeah, we're doing it.

And I was like, oh, man, but it's actually good that I didn't know, because then my vision would have been fogged. I would have been like, I better sprinkle this in because he's a van healthy Yeah. So it was actually perfect. But then after that we take the scraps and we get a little bit of like, you know, time with them, and because now we have to crosshoot so quickly. Yeah, and so it's like we don't have time to be like, oh, you got to prepare for that, like mental total total.

It's a comedy thing that they were.

In a comedy, but Giermo's the only one who has like to carry like the grounded heart of it. You know.

It was just kind of tough because it's like these guys are so funny and like him being so like submissive and quiet and like not having to ever go to their levels, like you still by thought, like they yelling all the time, they're flying, they're fucking, and Giermo has to be like completely contained in.

Keeping after his goals and wishes.

I mean, your performance is so controlled and it's so good, it's so excellent.

Yeah, it's so hard. It's hard.

Well, I'm sure, because like is there like what's the challenging part of the process there.

I think the.

Challenging part is that it has to be grounded all the time, and so I want to be like the vampires are I mean, because if I was at that level of comedy, then it would be like a farce. This would be like a farce over the time and everything because they're vampires, so they're living their lives at their level. I'm a human and so being the only human in the show has to be real and the comedy has to be from watching me be like we relate to the ederal because we're all animals.

Yeah, it's happening in the world that were the usual.

Yes, Like if I ever teeter one side and it becomes two is like I don't believe it. This is this is stupid, you know, and so it's hard to like it's Stephie Robinson, one of our EPs was like, yeah, he's walking like a tight rope.

You know.

It's yea to balance it because if you teetered one or the other, it doesn't make the show believable. That is a hard thing.

It's very hard because I have been in things where I get very self conscious about being being like the grounded person and being like, oh, I'm not really driving the last here, like am I doing something wrong?

Or it's just harder to gauge what it's going to look like or how I did until it comes out.

Yeah, because as a comedian, like it's like I have to deliver the joke.

But sometimes the best comedy just comes from just every day, you know, interact with humans and it's like being grounded and it's like.

No, definitely it's a funny part, you know, but it's hard to know. I mean we talk about this sometimes, like especially with actors that seem to really know how to do this like intrinsically, but when you're when you come from live comedy and when you come from like a comedy background and then understanding like how to act like a human quote unquote on camera because I don't know about you guys, but I mean I think we're all like expressive people. Yeah, and the way that I

And I used to have it, like, used to have like direction when I first started, because I started acting musical theater and so when I first started was like sang out to the back round blah bah blah, it's bigger than life. And started being on set and like always being given the note by directors bring it down, yeah, bring it down, bring it down, because.

I was like, what do you mean bring it down?

Singing down? So it's like bring it down.

So like where I find myself doing some of my best work is doing a character that if you asked me, like ten years ago, you're gonna be doing this grounded character that's still funny but it has heart and is grounded, would have been like that sounds ridiculous, you know, Like but yeah, and just like the fact that I'm doing that, that's what's so hard because I'm so not used to that.

But now you know you can do both or like operate like from whatever end of the spectrum. But the wonderful thing about Kiamo is that like there are no sacrifice to last necessarily, like I think Garama has one of my favorite jokes in the whole show, which is I don't kiss and tell, but what I can tell you is I don't cass like I like, what.

A great that was improvised, really, Harvey.

So the final part that you see is like we already have the most amazing right of course amazing, and we always do the scripted version, we do a little bit of notes from upstairs, and then after that so we call the Funzies, and the Funzies is which just for funies.

And when Taka was there the first season and he's a.

List you went for fun that's one for fun.

It's so fun And I was like funsies because we called it another set and he goes what and I was like Funzies and he's like, okay, Funzies. And from there on we call it, but we always do Funzies and at the end of the day when we see the Finder product half his Funzies and half.

A script o fun Are you? Were you a fan before I was?

And I'm glad that, Like weird enough, I hadn't seen the movie when I got the audition, I actually went it was weird. I went to One and Cheese night at my friend's house, Mimi. She lives out here in New York now, but she was in LA with her newborn, showing up for baby to her family and friends. And I went to One and Cheese at the last minute, and I met a girl there who texted me the next day and she said, Hey, you're so fucking funny.

No.

They were engaged to Gary Bash was a producer and later so I was like, sure, I'll buy it. Well, who's a castader Alison Jones? Why And I've never gotten because my invitation only, And I was like, I've never gotten to her office.

I was like, this would be a great way.

And she's so cool. A breakthrough break through. Yeah, here's the thing.

It was because of a friend that I met her friend who's fiance. I was like totally, like, you know, nepo baby. I was just I was like, they know each other whatever. And so I was like, I'll take it, you know, because the character was twenty five years older than.

I am, and so I was like, oh, that's right. They did not write him as like.

And then I was like, he's been familiar for like several decades because he's like times running out and that's the desperation of gim you could also be desperate at ten years of you know, of service.

And so I was like, damn it.

And I was like fuck, and I was like, what do I do? Okay, I'll just have to like I never do this, like dress up for the character.

Oh you did.

I was like, I have to make myself look older. I didn't write it in these stubles. So I literally put like a little bit of a little wow, and then I put these Harry Potter glasses. I popped out the lenses. I never dress up for regular, but I was like, I have to just make an impression on Alison. And I didn't know anymals except for like, I was in my writing partner's house and she had a like horror book on and I had a like illustration of Giro on the back with his glasses and his hair

I wear this long sleeve this brown nasty sweater vest and I was like, no one on TV would.

Ever look like this.

And then you created gear more.

And then I went to the audition and it was all those moments you know as an actor, like when you go an audition, sometimes you walk there like I don't I hope I did okay, but I don't know.

I don't know.

And so I went to the audition and I was here to see Alison. I was so excited and I was like, I'm here to see Alison. Al dress steps like she's not here and I was like no, No. I met a girl at a party and she told me. He's like, no, we know, we've been waiting for you.

I've met a girl.

Yeah she's not here, she's in London audition.

Yeah, we are the assistance and this is what it is. Yeah, so here you go. Microphone on my collar and I was like, oh, is she going to see it?

I sh'll see it in London. She has time.

And I was just like like did not hear?

And I was like I was like okay, well fuck it, I'm just gonna do it. And I remember doing it and at the end looking up at Ben Casting associating so Harvey and I go, yeah.

You're going to Hollywood or something. Yeah, but he goes the microphone.

We're done.

The microphone and I was like thank you. And then I walked out and I was like, I don't know what I did. My agent calls like what did you do?

And I was like, I don't know.

An hour later they called. I showed to Allison Taka Jamaine. Everyone had agreed to test me FX. They'd all seen the video and they were like, you're the wildcard though, because you're too young.

For the WOW. And I made a career of being the wildcard. Like every role that I can look back at, I was.

I know, are we all used to that? I used to be like, you're not the first, You're not the first.

And I made a career out of it, Like I was like every major role I've gone was not for me. It was not written for me on paper, it wasn't supposed to me. And I went in there as a wildcard.

I was like how about this?

And then yeah, I guess and then they like it or whatever.

So I was a wildcard and I was like I'm gonna go and I'm just gonna at least get to me Allison.

Right.

So weeks go by and I'm not testing. It's Martin Luking weekend on a Sunday and they start production on Tuesday. Oh shit, and I haven't heard anything. And I was like, I didn't get it whatever, and so this number kept calling me. Eventually I pick it up and it's like, hey, is this hobby And I was like yeah, hey, it's talking Jamaine. I was like hey, it's like, oh yeah, I'm testing for you. It's like, no, you're not testing, mate, And I was just like, think you for the opportunity.

Was there supposed to be a test, and they just decided never mind.

It was the first time they had voted to test someone.

Everyone else was split, like forty sixty blah blah with the other actors.

Why don't even do this?

Yeah, why are we testing him? It's the first time we all agreed that we like somebody love that. That's so That's how I got it.

Damn we love it.

That's like a cinematic sort of.

It's a Cinderella.

I was Hillard, you weren' Hillard off? Yeah, is she your favorite Cinderella? That's she came to it was, But also Brandy, Oh that's the answer. And then yeah, So it was just one of those moments where and then we shoot something that's really good. Sometimes you feel like this isn't gonna go because the thing.

And so I made the pilot and.

I was like, fuck, this is really good. I really hope and if it doesn't, it's okay. I'll have the footage.

Yeah, my reel. And then we picked up and now we're going to season six. That's so cool. It's almost better though, to have that experience you have with auditioning where they give you nothing, because then you can just go about your life like I've left auditions and had them be like that was great. The feedbacks go, you're even told you're being heavily considered. You don't get it,

Yeah, And I've had the opposite of that too, where like I went in there, I know they liked it, and I didn't get the role. Like I go in there and like I remember, I just feel like Sean Levy and he was on the floor laughing about this character.

But the character was not right for me. Like I knew it on paper.

I knew that I knew exactly who they're looking at for other actors and stuff. It wouldn't work with me, And I knew that they wouldn't work with me. But I can give you my best version of this, Yeah, And I give him his version and then I was like it's not I'm not going to get it, but he was on the floor laughing, walked out, And then two weeks later they called and.

They're like, hey, he wrote apart for you.

There you go, you know, and it's like, so my goal is to obviously you want to get the gig and you want to get the job, but to win the room impressed.

In general, you want to win the room, and so if you win the room, you'll always work.

And sometimes casting directors are like I would have those moments and it's like, Harvey, you're gonna do that, you got it?

And I was like, oh my god, is it really?

Like I know it's not official, but like I mean, I hate and they say stuff like that, and then I go home with this like chip on my shoulder, was like, oh my god, I think I got and then no, call nothing, and then eventually it was like we do She said no, no, can you check again?

Your agents have to go check. And then they're like Harvey, she said no, and I was like no, and then they're like, Harvey, it never happened. You never auditioned, doesn't exist, are you?

Well?

It was you walking around a Dell taco and I went and I thought I slay it, and then I found out it never happened. That would be a thriller. That would be an amazing thriller. That three of us are going to start. Yeah, we all go out for the same part and get amazing feedback, and then we find out that none of us. It's a psychological thriller. I love directory Christopher Nolan.

Christopher Nolan start production in the phone. Did you get shoot shadows in La Toronto?

That's right there.

So we shot the pilot in l A and I was so happy because from La born and raised. I was like, oh, this would be great because every gig I've been getting before that would be taking me out like Atlanta, New York, which I love, but it's also I missed my family and friends, and so I was like, this would be perfect, perfect. So we get picked up. I'm like, oh my gosh, it got picked up. It's like, yes, here's the capyat. It's like in Toronto, I was like, how much out of the year are you shooting? When

Wow, that's insane, that's completely It's like and we.

Felt it like we shot ten episodes in nine weeks because of everyone's scared.

You're like, what's going on?

So by the end we wrapped Christmas Eve, and you worked with Thanksgiving because in Canada it's not a holiday. So they're like, we're working and we're like and so you FaceTime your family like it was like my first things Giving not I at home, you know, it's like everyone yeah, yeah, yeah, So it's just like I feels so whatever we're doing work, we're being creative. But we were tired, Like the first season, we were like exhausted. And after that, I think they caught on the like

Three and a half months. Yeah, so three and a half months in Toronto. And do you like Toronto? Toronto? I've become a really big Torontonian, you know, yes, And it's cute. It's cute.

I like it, and I built yeah yeah, and all the summer is beautiful. They really go to the island.

No, I didn't get to make it out to that. I was only it for ten days, but but I definitely like went to like some of the spots. Yeah, like I went to some restaurant of the village. Yeah, I went to the village. So you make your own little community there, you know. Yeah.

So it's kind of fun because when I go back Toronto, shout out to my Toronto friends, like it's.

Like you make your own community, you go to dinner with your friends. Yeah, and I bit there.

You know five, it's half a decade.

You know. Yeah, yeah that's wow.

Wow.

Yeah, so it's like half of my you know, decade was there. So like I made friends and from season one to season now, like I know their birthdays. We go this nice to have a family and rarity too. Now I used to have a show go for that long, you know, I was. I was just gonna say, I was like six is like yeah, unheard of, big number.

Yeah it wasn't, you know.

But yeah, I love Toronto and I lived in the summer during the pandemic. It was tough because they had no ins and outs because Canada was really like we were protecting our own, which makes sense, and so when we got there, we didn't kind of know that. So when I got there and shot season three, they're like Okay, so if you leave, you can't come back.

In like, oh your next season. And I was like, oh what.

And then I booked Reacher on Amazon and season one and they shot in Toronto. So I went straight from Shadows to season one of Reacher.

Season four Shadows.

Ten months.

Oh wow, So that was a whole year in Toronto. I'm gonna generalize and say that Toronto has some of the hottest queer people.

Second, yeah, absolutely, and great food, like great food, fantastic.

It's like hot, gorgeousqueer people who are like not super pretentious about like no, and.

They don't know how gorgeous.

The well everyonelways compares Toronto to a smaller, cleaner version of New York. Yes, where it's like a tiny version of it, you know. I feel like there's so nice in Toronto that just really plate.

We did meet the rudest person in the world in Toronto. Wait, when we went for the Sketch Festival there me you, Rachel Ninski, I think Amanda Scheckman all went to some brunch place near the hotel, Yes, and it was a line of Drake. It was not the Drake, but it was some nondescript brunch place like by where we were staying. There was a line outside, and then I was like,

The wait is.

And he goes, oh, that's interesting because I don't know where you come from, but here we wait in line.

Okay, so not even rude.

That feels like it was whatever because he was driven to me and Rachel, so is Rachel and I going in, and then Rachel Wininsky was basically like, thank you so much, You've been so helpful. And then we walked inside and now it's how long the wait was? And then guess what, we got seated within like ten minutes. But then he was literally at the window. This fucking scumbag sticks out to me. It's like the rudest, worst person ever, sounds like yeah, yeah, yeah, very Disney villain.

That is horrible.

Isn't that awful?

But maybe he was visiting.

Doesn't on it?

I'm sorry.

It's like that episode in Sex and the City when that's scrunchy ladies in line and like he's like, see, I wrote a growth. She's from New York, so he's like, man, where are you from? I'm visiting texts. That's what it was, and that's what person.

Oh my god, wait that's burger culture culture. Yeah, god, burger. This guy was giving burger, but like worse.

He was, is it?

I almost can stand behind that.

That doesn't sound like yeah, that was not me saying like, noskeep I'm just saying it's the sight of one of the most gregious moments of rudeness.

Was you said Fedora just didn't sing?

Ye?

Was he actually wearing a for door?

Yes?

Wow?

And I just keep a vision like a long like he was wearing.

Yeah, No, there may or may not have been.

In fact, he was.

He was wearing like the shittiest hat I've ever seen in my life. No, I don't like terrible, So.

You should have just been like, you know, you're sure like ship.

Yeah, I'm gonna do that next time someone's hed to me, will you look fucking stupid?

Yeah, I don't care. How long is going to be at Wendy's. Well you stupid? Oh my god, I'm the I see. The thing is like, I don't consider myself a confrontational person all until you put but in this situation like that, I would. It would be hard. Yeah, because there's so many like things and thoughts going through your heam like, whoa, what you know? Like what you said that.

I was like, it sounds targeted, It sounds kind of racing.

It's because I know that they were pointing it at you and Rachel. I don't think they used the words. I don't know where you came from. If it's like that me totally very triggering, fully like walloped me.

But I was just like, oh, but it was.

It was along with the rest of like like the energy was just like yeah, whenever someone is being really rude, I feel like I never reacted the moment because it filters through a thing of like, well they possibly be being that.

That happened to me last week here in New York.

So it has my birthday and my bother surprised because it had never been to the Statue of Liberty, so hen'll meet me at Battery Park and we'll go have an adventure. So I met him at like one and then we got I actually saw yeah, and then he saw me and he was like surprise.

He's like, he told you've never been to Statue Liberty.

So I got us.

We're getting on the boat.

We're going to Ellis Island and then we're going to go and have lunch out one trade sound it like the top of the world, and then after that we're going to go to Like he had this whole.

Thing planned, and I was like so emotional. I was like, oh my god, that's so wonderful.

And I hugged him and gave him a kiss, and in the corner of my eye, I see a gentleman and he goes, hey, no, no, no, fuck it. And I looked and I was like, I thought I misheard him, and I made it and I justified that I didn't hear right. There's no way yeah, And I thought, there's no way. This is New York City. I'm no, it's broad daylight, you know. It's like, no, this is not happening. And I looked over it and my boyfriend and excited. He's like focusing on me. He's like focusing on me.

Jesus and you guys were attacked.

And then I looked at him and he's like walking away and he spits at it and like the spit didn't hit us pretty close. And I looked at my boyfriend and he's still so in love and so like focused on me. He's like and then we're gonna go about And I was like, did you hear what he said? And he was like what And he's like he called us. He called me fat, and it's like who. And the guy had already walked away, and I was like that guy, he can spired us. And he's like ignore him and

I was like, wait, how come you can't he him?

I heard, you know, and he was like because he was so lovely and like just focusing on the day that he had presented in front of us, and then he was better than I was in the way of brushing it off. But I was like kind of ruined the beginning of of course for me. And then he's like, he's, oh, hey, look at me. Don't let this ruin the day for you. Let's say he was mentally ill. So I was like, yeah, but that's not that's not justification, you know.

And it also it's like, it's of course a sweet thing, and he obviously wanted to salvage of the day that he had created and like make sure that it was still a happy day.

But it's just like it's in your eye line first of all.

Yeah, and also he he didn't see it and it didn't experienceactly, so it was my happening. And the thing where it really hit me that it.

Was it was the spitting.

It would have been like, yeah, that's an attack, someone spitting at you, and I couldn't.

Believe it, and I was like, no, that is what's happening. That's and that's when I really kind of like came back to and I was like, that is what's happening. And then he walked away, and I was like, I wish it would have came to me sooner.

You always I'm so sorry that that happened, and you always wish later that you could have been the best version of yourself in that moment. Are like the sharpest, Like yeah, you know had something to say or I had to. But the thing is, like what they don't talk about is it's like they talk about the fight or flight response, but it's really the fight, flight or freeze. Yeah, that is a totally validated reaction to that, and I.

Hadn't felt that, and I hadn't felt that since I was I mean, this only happened twice in my life. Once when I was six and they went to visit my my grandm in Mexico, and I was hanging out with these kids and I brought my Tonka truck and I wanted to play with them, but I was pretty flambuoyant, and I brought the toy to play with my new friends, and I thought I was gonna have and it was our neighboring house, and then my mom said, go play with them. You know, I'll share your toys because everyone

One of them hits me here and it scars me right here.

Oh yeah, you have a scar.

And so that was my first experience of being like bashed with this word and feelings of like who I am is not accept it and it's just like I ran home and I was like covered in blood and I told my mom, I'm sobbing, and I'm like, they.

Call you mighty posta? So who called you many posts?

Like they did?

Why did they call me that? She kept saying, who cares what they call you? Maney posas are beautiful and they get to fly all over the world. And I was I knew she was protecting me because I was so young.

And even in that moment, you're like, I did I.

Didn't happen?

I remember, and as an adult you're like, why did that happen?

So that was a six year old and now, like you know, last week through my birth, I was just like, how have I come this far? And I still am paralyzed when people it's.

Just like human brain that it was your response to it, period and that is a valid response to it. And also it's just crazy because like you should be able to express affection in your partner freely wherever. And it is scary though because I also had like a moment. It was probably about a year ago that I kissed someone on the street and someone was walking past us and he said, none of that gay shit. And this

Been in Times Square like a couple weeks ago. Yeah, a couple just want hand and no one did anything.

So it was like it's like, I mean a few years ago in the West Village and sorry to upset you know, the readers and everyone listening, but like it's just something that's very real, and I think it's like important that we talk about because you know, we have these like sort of ambiguous things of like, oh it's getting worse, like things are happening, but like specifically like there was someone shot. There was a gay couple. One

It's like last summer.

It was like a few summers ago, but like it's it's almost like not even the point of when it was. It's just like recently, it happened two gay men in gay parts of a gay city. It's really shitty, and I'm so sorry that it happened so recently, and I'm sorry.

That we have to deal with it, and I'm sorry that we have to be We're still sharing these stories and they're so like relevant, and it's not like it happened years ago.

It's like this is happening, you know.

Yeah, and it's like and again this is you know, obviously it's pretty heavy, you know, but it's also something that needs to be of course, especially with the times that we're living in.

It's just I think that it's hard to expla lane to someone that doesn't have to, that isn't a scared person when they hold hands or even are in a group of gay friends. Yes, you know what I mean.

And this is why when people talk about going to like a gay destination, a queer place, a queer bar. It's like it's a place where you like kind of let that armor drop, and like that's why people are obsessed with going to Fire Island. It's because it's like it's a place with like basically no straight people, so

It's it's a literal safety. Yeah, it's such a bummer, I know.

Yeah, but I do feel like talking about it helps.

And I think I think someone listening to us and you're sharing that story about with your excent and me sharing that story likewise, it's just like it will help because we shouldn't live in fear, and I think it helps us to share these stories with each other.

You know, Yeah, everyone does have one, even if there's top of mind, like I wouldn't have even it's like your story like made me remember that. But it's like it's less about I have a story and more about And I'm sure a lot of people can connect to this. I'm sure we all do. It's more about there is a baseline feeling of vulnerability at all times. Yea.

Yeah, it's the reason why people are in the closet or stay in the closet, or it's a reason why that is a stage. Yeah, in every queer identity is that you like have to like make the choice to announce it.

To like you know, that's what it is.

It's like the coming out of the closet in that phrase.

I always had a problem with it because coming out of the closet, it's like when someone quote unquot comes out of the closet already know who they are. They're sharing that information with your it's not like a surprise, it's that they already knew. They ask themselves these questions. So I really think it should be called letting people in. I let you in and I because you already know,

I'm going to let them in.

And what you do with that information is so important because it can go terribly wrong. People let people in. Look what happens.

It should be let them into my walk in. Let them into my walk in. It's actually really culture number eighty. It's not coming out of the closet, it's letting them into my walk in.

Now, Harvey, we want you to let us in into this question that we ask all of our guests, which is what is the culture that made you say culture is for me? Culture is for you? What is the formative piece of pop culture that sort of set you on?

Well, it's so funny because I think that like a lot of young kids who watched Titanic for the first time, YEP, I was obsessed with Titanic, and then more with Kate Winslet, and then I went down a rabbit hole and then went to see her one of her first films, and then I was u sess because of the Winslet, became more obsessed with Melanie Lynsky, Oh my God, I Heavenly Creatures.

I was obsessed with it.

I would watch that and I was like, this is for me, Peter Jackson is for me. This is for me, these young actors who I would just was blown away how amazing they were.

Yeah, this is for me, Like this is the world I want to live in. This is movies and this culture is for me.

And then just going down rabbit hole of films that Peter had made and like just like for me, I would literally would quote like if someone were having lunch or something at the cafeteria and then someone grabs the last not shows and like, go ahead, treat yourself.

It's just like.

Your way into Peter Jackson to be creatures. That is so like, of course I know Lord of the Rings, but really Creatures was my way into Peter Jackson. I was, we just had Melanie on the show.

But that's why Titanic is important, is because it becomes this and it's a rabbit hole.

Like it was like it went down and I was it started with a Kate and Kate it's amazing, but then I discovered Mellingly and oh my gosh, and then go down that and I was like, she's so phenomenal everything she's done.

But I'm a cheerleader.

Like it was just like all this stuff that she's done, and it's like that was for me.

I quote those things with my friends all the time, and then it just goes, you know, and then other movies as well, like it's just like old like campy stuff like you know Baby Jane, Jane, you know, Mommy Daris. Of course, it's like, you know, it's queer culture, so like queer culture like through that way of like Titanic was kind of like what I've learned that the.

Six degrees of Kate Winslet leading you into.

Yeah, Titanic did give you this understanding of camp I think because the dialogue is I think consciously camp be because it's literally what kikiy Bober was talking about on the podcast where she was like, he has to he has to recoup on these movies. He has to make this dialogue as general and is like understandable to every to as many people as possible.

The inflection on those lines too, like I put the coat on her, put the diamond in the government, like all those.

Lines and just like you know, going down the elevator like so iconic. The inflection on those lines were like it's just it couldn't have done any.

I think it was the first time I ever saw the middle finger used in the elevator, that's actually a pull. I didn't realize I had. But the first time I ever saw the fuck you gesture with the middle finger may have been Titanic, because I was told in a film anyway, because I was told when I was in kindergarten that I was doing it, but without realizing what it was, I think, I like, this is before Titanic, But I was having my middle fingers up like this.

I've always had a question though, that's so funny.

Yeah, but.

I feel like, is that anachronistic? Did the middle finger mean that?

That's actually interesting question for a historian, And.

I well, I went down how accurate a lot of the things were, and like the actual Remember they're looking for them and they're having sex in the car, and they guys the like lamps and then you know they like they found them.

Lamps weren't invented until you're after time. Oh my god, Harvey, backup, producer Becker. Can you look up the origin of the middle finger? Okay, this is we're gonna get to the bottom of the bottom of this. That is huge.

And I had never thought about that.

Yeah, and it was just a year too early, and I was like, oh, those weren't in there.

That is funny. So what were they using? Torches? Lantern lanterns? Okay, so make sure that we're picking up back here because she's going to deliver the news, all right.

So, according to the BBC, the Greeks used the middle finger as an explicit reference to male genitalia as far back as four hundred and nineteen BCS.

This is one of the oldest things.

So this erect finger sposed to be a penis. So when I pointed at you, it's literally fuck you and oh in the classic times in Greece, like it is, it really is. So it's like the Greece were doing fuck you and also gay sex before anyone else. Can I say you that ancient Greeks would have loved poppers and it's actually really culture number forty nine. I think the ancient Greeks would have loved poppers. I think it's

Yeah, so I would go to school and like watch and start watching shows that were not like age appropriate, Like I was obsessed with Amy Sedaris. Yeah, It's Strangers a Candy, where like I would go to school and kids would be like, what are.

You talking about?

And I was like packing a musket, you know, And I knew that all actually funny story.

I auditioned with that monolog for my first musical theater Gig Out of School, and I booked it just Jerry, with Jerry packing a musket. But it was like when you work from home and John's calm the phone, you're a collgirl, when you walk with the limp and give a.

Cut to a pimp, you're a street you're giving doing please? Yeah, like did the whole thing. I thought it was a joke.

I did his joke because I was like, I'm not supposed to audition one in school. I audition while still in school as a joke. And I got it, and I moved to Japan for thirteen months.

Wow. Wow, what was your experience living in Japan? I loved it.

I also got there and you know, I hadn't done anything before, so I wouldn't be like play cool professional blah blah. And I got there and they gave me the script and it was in Japanese and I was like, oh, no, I know, I got the Japanese pressure. And they're like yeah, it's like we opened in two weeks and it's wait what it in Tokyo Osaka?

Oh?

Which then how did it work?

Because phonetically you say it in Japanese like it's like we're not doing an English show in Japan, Like they brought American actors.

To do show, and so I just completely I didn't have an age or anything. It was just like I just got the job.

And I was like, way, I know when toulu and so I had to learn so like, to this day, I had to understudy the wizard with the white wig and makeup like it never went on, thank god. But I had to learn his song sentimental man. To this day, when that song comes out, it goes automatically Japanese.

Man, this is for wicked. Yeah, you were a wizard and real swing to the way.

And I was like, which made no sense because the show that originally did there was Sesame Street. So I was a thirteen year old boy, and I was like, how did I go from thirteen to like fifty eight?

Like it talent rain, she ranged, she got ranged. So to this day, literally when I heard something, it's best thought. Oh so I heard albab there. Yeah, God, that was amazing, amazing. Do you do you pick up and retain? I did?

While now when I got back and I would hear someone like in an elevator of visiting and I was like, oh, I was like, and I give him directions and so I was like, how did this scow? Like it's like I pick up stuff and I say it, and it's like if you don't use it, you lose it, especially that one.

Yeah, So I to this day it's hard to just go back and like, no, I can still know I haven't used it in years.

No, yeah, there's a part of your brain that is committed.

I could pick it up like I could pick it up, and I was like, but it's not as like by the eleventh month, I was just having full on conversation.

What was the Japanese Alphaba giving I've seen the clips of that. Yes, so Japanese?

Al well, Alphaba was American or Australian. She she was an actor from Australia. She actually did Alphaba Wicked in Australia, like that's the company shit, So she did it in Japan. The only lead that was Japanese was Glinda Cool. So the lie that I used to love is like what happened when she used her magical not either, I know, like it's just like, what happened?

Why did you that? I hope you're happy like that. I need love.

This the craziest thing about any show, but Wicked, I am slightly familiar with, like the international aspect of it because Steven Arimus, who's been like working on the show since the beginning, who's working in the movie, Like he's.

Literally like traveling.

He still travels all over the world to be like all right, and we got to do it, and like you know Hungary, we now we have to do it in like you know, fucking Slovakia or wherever. I'm just making a place. He literally goes to like Eastern Europe, Asia, like all these places, and it is just like so so wonderful, how like international, like musical theater can be whatever. I'm sounding like such a noo it's.

Like, but it's also some things like phonetically or like the dipthongs, like they get lost when translated, so like it's like popular is so specific because it goes with the pope, so then it's like when you change that, it's like something a little bit lost in Wow.

There are compilations out there of like alphabets from every country.

Yeah, I've watched nearly all.

They're all gags every alphabet. There are some Korean alphabets that like go off, yeah.

Eat, tear and more, eat culture number ninety two. There are some Korean alphabets who eat and more. Oh, Harvey, that's amazing.

It was.

I mean, it was my first big gig and like I'm glad I did it, and I was just like thrown in there. But then going back, musical theater was my training, like, but I did end up doing it, like I ended up going to TV and film.

So like looking back, I'm like, but I feel like I'm gonna go back to the street.

When are you going back to? Yah? Maybe sooner than we think, Oh yeah, how interesting are well?

Boyfriend's here in New York? Yeah that would be really a great Yeah.

I found myself like lucky.

I was like getting work out here this year and then spending more and more time here. So because at first I was like, let's see how this plays out, Like it's like you know, in the relationships early.

And you're like, I don't live here, I don't have you guys been together? Five months?

Oh, you're you're past the three month benchmark, which I think is like my wall. It's like not my wall, but it's like the hill I have to crest all the time.

Or six months sorry, six months now six months lat year.

That's pretty good. That's pretty good.

If you were to ask me this second month one or two, when I was like, Okay, let's see how this works.

No, totally, you know what I mean.

But now I'm like, you know what, this is steady, steady looking for apartments.

I'm slooting for apartments at six months. I mean, not like it's helping. He's moving yay. No no, no, no, no helping. But you're part of it in a cubstantial way. Yes, And why wouldn't.

You be exactly exactly so, because I was like, well, you know what, I've just been a lot of time here and back and forth.

It's kind of like killer.

It's it's pretty fun here it is. I mean, New York is back. It's back. And we just had this conversation yesterday with a couple of friends, Like the phrase of New York is back for years, It's been said for years, But what I mean is like, and tell me if you agree. New York never left, Like no, for sure left. Like I feel like the pandemic killed New York and then New York was quote unquote back

Was always gonna be an overcorrective like spike up and then now like and now I think the needle is back to like the yes, the center, yeah or whatever exactly for those of us who never left New York and like put in the hard yards?

Is that?

Am I using that term correctly?

Yeah? Sure? What is hard in the paint? Mean again, hard in the paint means when you're like it's a basketball thing. Yeah, it's like when you're driving down the court, like you're going hard in the paint. Like it's like, am I doing this? Like hard in the paint? It's like when when you are really riding hard for something, Like I use it like I go hard in the paint for Kelly Clarkson. Yea, you know what I mean? Like this year at the Oscars, I went hard on

I would say that that kind of works with what I'm saying.

I think it worked. I think it works the entire ways. Okay, being in the pandemic in New York era was doing the hard gark.

I feel like I never really called myself a New Yorker until that, until like twenty twenty one, when I was like, whoa, I like made It isn't.

The rule though, that ten years in New York means you're in New Yorker for life.

I didn't feel that at ten years.

But it's not up to you. I'm saying, like, that's no, no, it is.

It's a feeling.

It's a feeling.

Well, it is the general room of thumb, it's the general rule ten years in. But I do feel like those that stayed through the pandemic, yeah, earned I feel like I earned an.

Extrasus achievement in line I knew during the pandemic point and that's a triple point.

So triple point, that's huge, that's majors, that's multiplier status.

I just feel like we did college here and then like all our twenties here and so I here's what I thought. I felt like I could finally call myself a New Yorker when anyone could ask me any question about the subway and I can answer, yeah, that's actually really good, Like anytime you have the subway down, Like if someone comes to you and they are like, how do I get the eat and you can tell them, yeah, you're a New Yorker, baby, you are. Yeah. I mean I'm an Angelina born raise.

So there's the revolving door of actors and models and writers that go through that city every day.

Yes, yeah, how do you feel.

I feel the same way that it's like after ten years we have people were like, I moved here two years ago.

I was like you, I was like, no, I'm I lived there, I'm agelin.

I was like, I've I was born raised here, And it's like so honorary at ten years, yes, but before that, I feel like it's premature. And that's the thing that most actors probably won't stay ten years.

You know.

Most actors get there like not for me, writers uh not, or they get outsourced to like Atlanta or New York or another or Toronto, you know, because we rarely work in LA.

Yeah, I mean I did the small part in that movie Lyle Isle Crocodile, and I was on set one day with and they filmed in Atlanta, and I was working with this Atlanta based actress and she was sort of debating a life change because she was pregnant. She's like, I want to raise my kid in LA. But I work so much more here in Atlanta than any of my friends that went to LA because it's so crowded.

And I have a lot of friends in LA who moved to Atlanta and have thriving careers because you're considered a local higher you have to put you up and drive a fly you over pretty like that gets expensive. And if you can make it in LA and continues your work, then stay there obviously because you make connections with casting directors or whatever. But if you don't, then get your jump somewhere else and you might find out that that was the road or trajectory you're supposed to.

Be built a resume, I say, like, you know what I mean, like come in with a bet with a resume, not just so that you can have a piece of paper that said here's what I've done, but also you can have the experience. And then you go to a big city like LA or New York, and then you're an a list in a list city. No, no, no, I'm just giving you a hard time.

But do you feel a certain way about moving in your like like you're portraying in La kind But I feel like.

Going back to what you said about LA and New York being like the top, I think that I'm good either or what was behind. But if for whatever reason, you know, career love you know, moves you to Citi, well what a great place.

To be, right? Can I say what I mean by a list? It's like, here's what I mean to make it like international, It's like Paris, London, Paris, Beijing, you know what I mean, Like Sydney, like keep going. I'm like Hillary London, there's something.

Good everywhere and goes and then wow, she had some bops didn't she absolutely.

Music does not get the no she should be why not shall we transition? Let's transition? So we are now going to transition. What a lovely episode this has been, by the way, it's been so nice to like hang with you. But we're doing I don't think so honey. So this is our sixty second segment that we take something in the culture and we just put it in its place. I'd say we drag it. Yeah, we use the words I don't think so honey about it, which is no greater burn. And I literally in this moment

Johnny Depp just got signed on a twenty million dollar deal with di Or for a men's fragrance thing. Who wants to smell like him? Do you look at Johnny Depp and go, I bet he smells good. I think it is giving greasy, it's giving unwashed, no problem, that's

And that's one minute. Now. I know what I'm gonna do, and it's a directly relevant to yours, and we're gonna go right in. Okay, this is Matt Rogers. I don't think so many his time starts now. I don't think so, honey. Johnny Depp's fragrance that was called sauvage. It looks like sausage. Sausage when you look at the word, it looks like sausage. And so then not only are you opting into a fragrance that says smell like Johnny Depp, which I agree

That's one minute. Oh girl, you are so you are so right for that one twenty million dollars. I'm just confirming. I was like, that number can be right.

Just check twenty million, twenty million dollars to do what like being a couple of pictures.

Being a couple of pictures? Do an add I have some what do they call it? Like principal days or something like days where you have to Really I don't get this because is.

Johnny Depp's demographic, which I'm gonna assume is largely male. Are they buying this fragrance for themselves? Because that's another thing to think about. It is it's like or is it like the people? Yeah, what do you just straight women.

The demos like women who would love to like put it on a scarf from like m smells like.

Yes, or let's just do women still like will keep it to straight people. But yeah, it might be women buying it for their fucking boyfriends.

That's true.

They want them to feel like a superstar. That smells like I don't know.

But as we all know, he's not a good partner, he's not a great like, he's not gonna be the best boyfriend in the world to you.

I think it's his brand recognition at this point.

It's like recognition. Yeah, you know what will shake you is like going to parts of the Caribbean and on the ride and like Johnny Depp is just all over it. Still. I get it, like he ultimately was, like I guess uncanceled by the whole thing because like he was found that that whole court case quit dark Mark history.

But like it's just odd that like it's still so present that it's interesting to me that Disney is like, no problem, keep him there.

No, I think the right wind arc well that was happening. I remember, Oh really did it really?

Did they do a quote unquote refurbishing then, yeah, which I think they might have just like but when and then as soon as interesting thing it came out, it.

Was like it's back you know what that because they've had to do and you know what the thing is with that particular attraction is they've already done so much work to like make itta problematic because famously used to have those things. Is like he's rocking back and forth. Well now, okay, so rock and Roller Coaster is Arrowsmith and that ride is down and a lot of people

I'm sure there's someone at Disney who like, does the account the goodwill accounting for all of their pre show talent. They're like, well, how much do people love this person? And how do we weigh that against like the ship they've done and said, well, and.

Honestly, it's now like really topical because of the Jonathan Majors of it all right, right, like the Jonathan Majors of the and it keeps getting worse. We will see, hey, so we basically have done one joint. I don't think so, honey about Johnny Depp and his fragrance trajectory. If yours is in the same area, that's wonderful. If it's not still sleigh, okay, mine is hold on, we're gonna count away.

Whoa Okay, I'm getting If I have a weekend in New York, I want to see something beautiful, something artistic. And if you have to now take two of my days to go see this play, in this musical, I don't think so many. Yeah, and it's starting to just it's in out of control. It's just like, you know,

And then the three hours is like, okay, I got it, it'd be thirty second.

And I just don't want to be coming to New York so often that I my time is consumed with sitting on a chair watching two productions that that took three weeks to watch, you know, just because the first.

One's on Tuesday, the next one on Wednesday.

If you don't get tickets for a Thursday, you're not gonna watch a Saturday matinee. And if you don't, I just I don't think.

So, honey, we let's go back to just beginning, middle, and end in one city so I can watch several shows all at one time, because otherwise I don't think so honey, five seconds, okay, you.

Know what, just stop, just stop stop. I don't think that.

Yes, perfect, it's a huge logistical ask.

It is my time, and then I want to see the craft.

But also if it takes you that long and it's gonna be two days, it's like, is this like a destination wedding?

Yeah?

Right, is this the destination wedday?

I would do it if it was like the Saturday matinee and then the Saturday evening performance. But then I guess you can only do it once.

A week exactly, and that takes your whole day, and then you have to go home and like decompress it. Wow, that was really crazy and heaven and then wow, and then so your whole day and weekend now revolves around this production. And then you're like, oh, I missed someone's birthday, you know, like oh I miss Mother's day.

Oh my god, you start missing life that what have you seen? That's like this?

Did you see the Harry Potter and Harry Potter and Angels, and some people are like, I love the first half and not the second one. I don't want to wait till the second half to find out in like the you know the second right, it's like, Okay, I'm in. I'm gonna come back and then leave disappointing and be like I could have done with just the first totally.

I could, Well the first half that would be good, because I'm telling you, if I am sitting for two and a half hours of the first act and it's not good, I'm not coming down. Well that's my question.

How many of those seats are empty for the second part?

Well?

I did this once. It was a Sunday between SNL shows. SNL weeks so exhausted, but I had tickets to go see both parts of the Inheritance and Lovely Show. It was just I was just like, I've been here for seven hours. This is my whole day.

Yeah, life is too short.

Life is too short, And it was like my only day off. And I kind of do think that corrupted my mindset going into the show.

And did it go into the next week because you weren't for the rest of maybe.

And it fully went into the next week.

Absolutely.

Yeah, absolutely, And it's an extra ticket and it's whatever, it's all that stuff.

So like often these shows are intense, yeah, you know what I mean. It's like it deals with subject matter that's like, okay, not not only am I seeing a play that's this, but the play is super si Yeah.

And then now it's not like going to see music over like that was so much for for eighteen hours. Like it's just like, because if you're gonna have fun, let's wrap it.

Up, you know what I mean.

But it's gonna be a moving moving it's just like it's a lot and heavy.

And then it carries over to the next week.

What was your thought like process Monday morning?

Yeah exactly.

It's just like, oh I have to go back to wait, but why did she say that?

Yeah yeah, yeah, I don't know. I mean, here we are. We're literally saying, like the ideal length of a film is like eighty eighty six minutes. Yeah, Like we saw a movie the other night, Josh and Aaron Jackson's new movie. We saw early screening eighty two minutes. Eighty two minutes. We were like perfect, Oh my god, yeah.

Not a minute wasted, not a minute over asked overdone.

Every movie should be a typical length of like a House of Dragons. Well that's too long, which is too long for a tea for a TV show, right, very important. Every movie should be succession.

I fall into like the TV shows where like I forget that it's not just an hour thirty minutes and he lost like ninety minutes and you're like, oh shit, that was really good. Oh my god, like I lost track of time, like yeah, like sometimes and they I just don't think they advertise it. It's like stay tuned for the next ninety It's like you watch an episode, you think it's an hour, sixty minutes or thirty minutes.

Some of these shows are.

Going on for long, and you know what's getting me. I'm hitting pause all the time.

I go, oh, my food's here. Oh, and then to get back into it, ye yeah, and then you might rewind a little bit.

I get rewind, yeah, because I forgot And then sometimes the recap I forgot everything because it's been so long, or I didn't want to watch it the next day unless I'm binging it, and it's.

Like what, I don't know, you know what else? I don't think sonny, I don't think Sony is skipping the recap. I need the recap. The recap has to happen because it makes me realize I didn't remember any of that stuff. I have to go back to maybe see it again.

But you know which show is not doing that? What Survivor. Survivor is not giving me the recaps. They used to do it, but they're not anymore, and I think it's I think it's very important that they do it because sometimes I go, oh, who is who voted for who?

Again? Oh right, Oh, who's like on what team?

It's that kind of thing.

So I guess by the time this airs, like Survivor will have ended. But like, yeah, but Survivor's having an incredible season. But I still have my same thoughts about Survivor, which just two things. One yes, it's way more than

The facial expressions yes, yes, yeah, it's like, oh I did sendy homes like I'm back, yes expression.

I miss so much about old versions and I still love SRIB but old versions of Survivor, Like, we're not on the glory days right now, and it's okay, but it's a great season, great season, and Carolyn is a star, a star. We don't know yet if she wins. We fucking hope. So, but are you into Survivor.

I started watching Vivor when I was in high school and then I kind of like went out of it.

Yeah, it's understanding back in a big way. It's back in a big way. It's so much content. It's back in the way. New York is back. New York and Survivor are both back. It's actually real culture number thirty. New York and Survivor are both back. So I'm gonna move to New York and start watching it. Perfect.

Then you'll be actualized and then I can actually well you can watch it in your pork gosh, yeah, with your men.

God.

I had so much fun this is and we're gonna hang more tomorrow. Oh that's right, the Glad because Harvey is hosting the Glad Awards. We're so excited. Congrats Lost couch ESA's podcast was nominated. Let's see if we keep picking up that hardware we are of course, I Heeart Radio is best podcast of the year.

Snow by the Webbies and uh now by the Queer Ties, No.

By the Queerities as usual as usual. Yeah, I don't know a single person who's won a querity, just kidding.

Uh, do you know Nicole Bayer?

I do know.

I think she's won five five thousand querties. I think I was just two nights ago. Yeah, she's one about she's one approximately five thousand y she's the best. Oh, I can't think of anyone more fun to have it a karaoke she's oh no, I do not sing like she's but she but she is good presence. She was probably very supportive. So did she bring her querities? There were rooms? There probably wasn't room. There is probably a warehousetis she has the archive house. I get it, I

I don't know it between the wake up wake up songs?

Do you know hey now, hey now this.

Is what.

To hear that watch? Yeah, I guess I don't know why I wanted to. I think it could be from No it's lidiamgwith because it's it's when she's remember that crazy. I think it was Lida mcguarsteine when she turns into like Italian versions Sporst. But do you remember when Rita played like the Italian version of rust Off, but she was like, no, I'm not this. She had this from Mario. She did

That