"Dark Gay Culture" (w/ Ruby McCollister)

That the front runner for the title of up is the front runner for the title of at this time is dark gay culture? And why? Because we we were talking with our guests about downtown l A, about how culturally it's shifted for the last two decades, and I said, there's a gay bar in downtown l A called Precinct,

And our guests had a reaction to that. She said, who wants to get hard at a bar called Precinct, to which I replied, that's probably a lot of people, And and then that's a and then you said, you guess, and it's dark gay culture and we both had a paroxysm of laughter. And we should say, we're recording this from New York City. One of the top three cities in the world New York City, Paris, and Tokyo. And so we should say that we're here in New York City.

I have come back for the weekend. It's shoy I haven't seen you. When was the last time we saw each other? I think l A. I think l was the last time, famously in the top ten cities in the world, to which are New York, Paris, Tokyo, Berlin, Sitney, Shanghai, Mumby, Cape Town, and of course Athens. Wow, Athens in London. Really fighting in London didn't make the cut. Lindon didn't make it. Athens edged it out. It's culture edged it out because you thought, and this is your fucking problem

at home. You thought this is a financial thing now that we were during it, based on how they're the epicenter of business and all that sort of you know, finance culture. Well, guess what, bitch, No, it's about the culture. And Athens has been here since the beginning, especially Rule of culture number six. Athens has been here in the beginning. Oh my god, we're we're coming in the hot, white, hot,

white hot. I haven't felt this energy. White. It says it says it says white and hot as West Hollywood, dark ag culture is white. Would you say dark ag culture is white? I say, I would say, you would say that, oh bitch. I I didn't say it, I postured it to you. I would say, I don't want to pick on West Hollywood because here's the thing. Here's the thing. We're all trying our best. We're all trying our best. Truly, we're all trying our best. Sometimes I

go to West Hollywood. I look around and I say, well, everyone here is trying their best. I don't think it's it's the same thing some people. Some people are intentionally trying their worst. But you know what in that In that regard, I believe they're trying their best, and some people's worst, it is unfortunately their best. Look our guest is the best, and whenever she tries, and La Native and Elie Native, whenever she tries, it's always the best.

I would say, sometimes this person doesn't even have to try for Can I tell you somethingortless? I've talked the way I've talked about this person to people, I say, you are emphatic. I am since day one I saw her. Everyone should please check out her web series Gigi iconic web series. The first frame I saw, I was like, who the fund is that? When did we watch it? We were on the back of a lift and we

watched it. Were recently we were watching? That was an l a. I had to um, there was a there's a scene that takes place outside of once Harolded, New York venue. Much more, um, where are our guests? Just truly the reactions to so are so unpresident. I'm okay, what was your characters? What's your character's name? Mona Eliza, I'm lies, Oh god, it's really funny. Please check out. Also, she has a wonderful podcast called so Fashion Eating Our

good friend Max Witter. Yes, and of the instagram is aspiring three to three actress three to three as an area code, and as our guest puts it, of course it's the space between the words, and of course area codes are space. Now I just have to I just have to say the way I talk about our guests to other people, I mean, I mean downtown legend. At this point, I think she she has made me cry laughing by merely going up on stage. This happened at Pig recently hosted by Peter Smith and Sandy Jig this

was a iconic lineup. She remember, I even knew about this line up from across the count She goes up on stage and she's just like, okay, everyone give me a beat, and she like it makes everyone start to clap to a Yeah. You think she's about to sing a song or something or a chance something at least she just nip. But instead what she does is for about three solid at minutes, sustains this makes the audience, keeps the audience on their fucking toes, and then just

goes faster. That's so down. Just was fully fucking with the audience in a way that made me. That drove me to tears. I was I would like to talk about the art of performance with our guests because I was also we were just having a conversation. We were sitting in two chairs facing each other, and we were having a conversation about how you know, our our guest is on tour, yes, not unlike us, not unlike us, Um we're always on tour al so stupid. Okay, So

anyway we were saying, and I guess share with me. Yes, that's something. There are ebbs and flows and the love of performance. Oh yes, so right now, our guests is like kind of feeling like like we need we need to reignite the love of being on the stage again. And this is a theme I'd like to explore. I would love to explore this because this is actually universal.

It's universal to everyone. Everyone, everyone, teachers, students, students, principles, principles, everybody, everyone, an important part of a school system, I'll say, custodians an essential part of a school system. We had some hot ones. Did you sexy custodians in my school? Are you fucking kidding? No? And did you ever make a move? No?

It was it would it would be illegal. Can I say if I was going to fuck a teacher in high school or an adult in high school, I would have loved to have gone out with a bang and have it be the custodian because no one would have seen that coming. And that is subversion and that is art, and you know who is art and subversion? Our guest, now please welcome into your ears. Ruby mccallison. Finally, that was hard, It was insane? What was hard about it?

I was just laughing, laughing, laughing, laughing, And Matt, who I am now calling famous? My mother's name is Katrina. She loved that. She'll call me a traina. You look like a Katrina baby, you really do? What about trainas on fire? Truly might be the l a thing. I don't know, seriously, what I find. I find New York hear me on that New York comedians go to l A and they come back with this like jacked ego they do, and they were I'm like, I'm the smartest,

I'm the best, and I think it's that's what I'm doing. No, no, no, it's like cool. It's like you're so confident and like alive and like in your mind and in your references and you're like that that can can I tell you you're on fire? And I think that's what you so? Can I tell you what it is? Though, I'll tell you what it truly is. It's not an ego thing, or at least it's interesting. It's a joy in being back here, Sunding. It is a soaking up of the surroundings.

It is a call to action in myself and said, you know what, I know for a fact now I'm not always here. So while i'm here, I'm gonna be here. That's the way it is, period. That's what I'm saying, that's the l A Jack. Something happens feeling and you're just so in it, like you're so in your mind, you're so it's just like it's really gorgeous. I'm so say that because I'll tell you this. You know, we're talking about being on stage and performing. Maybe it's this.

Maybe it's the fact that I'm with two just icon people of the stage, a woman of the stage, if you gather my meaning. So basically like I feel like New York is like a performance town, whereas l A is sit around and wait, right, you know what I mean, like audition which is not performance. You know, it's just kind of not performance famously famously eleven auditioning is not performing famously that is huge. It is auditioning. Is it sort of like what I'd imagine like being a prostitute.

It's the closest thing to like faked intimacy, Like hey, does this feel good to you? Like like right, and private dancer, very private dancer, And I just like, yeah, it isn't It really isn't performance in the same way like I don't get I don't get high. And that's the thing right now with what I'm experiencing. I just am not getting the high now, And I asked you, why do you think? But why do you think? That? Is? What? What?

What's what's happening right now? I'm you know what, Famously, I don't really write jokes, and you know what I'm saying, It is like, famously, I really don't write jokes. I do sort of like bits that I can work out with audiences. Right now, I'm trying to be I'm like looking at my life. You know what I'm this is

going to be a little bit of industry. But it's like you know, when you're a pitching pitching pitching and you have that one idea that's like maybe about your mom or your brother, you're you know, dead cat something personal. The thing is is I'm realizing I'm pitching these ideas and the only things that are getting reactions are about my real life and my childhood, which is blink flashing lights, flashing lights. So I'm like, I gotta deal with this.

I have to write that. And so I'm starting to write jokes about my true actual childhood and it's difficult and it's not giving me the like like like I'm not getting jacked on stage because I'm talking about these real and if now, like if a joke doesn't something doesn't land, I'm like, oh damn, that's a joke about my dad. And it's like it's like a little like it feels very um like a wet it's like a wet how it's like a moldy towel. It's like it's like,

oh damn it like I crafted this thing. I'm sharing this weird fucking fact about my dad and it's not landing. Oh Like it's so so I'm not getting high like I usually did. Okay, let's say let's say, um, let's say there's no gatekeeper person responding to you being like, oh yes, Ruby, right about that? Right about your family? If you could like what like ideal performance for you? What what does that entail? Well, the thing is is I this is going We're going straight into where I'm from.

But it's um my father. You have to understand, was a producer and company manager of Exclusively One Woman shows in Los Angeles when I was growing up. So the goal, in a way I really realized, has always been talking about my life. It really has been. And I I'm sort of tait on the edge of my Saturn return Darling. Yes, but I'm cheetering. I'm not there yet. It's gonna shift

soon and so um. And it just came to me as like, you know, I'm sort of I love before, I love what I'm doing, I love all the ship that I'm doing whatever, blah blah blah. So I'll treat to myself, but I am sort of lying because I am not getting to who I am. You know what I'm here's the thing I need to talk about the true story, and that's what I was born in a way to do. I hear you. I hear that. But

that's also a specific not value system. But it's just yes, sure, it literally is a value system where someone is saying it's more valuable to us that you talk about your life. Whereas I as an audience member, love it, love when you do something that's completely divorced from anything personal. And it's just as you literally making people clapped rightful to sell I go on stage and the raw quality of who I am is a lot of people respond to it,

and like that is what we do. We build something together that is like you know, you know, like Sandra Bernhard comes to mind, you know what I mean, like, can you believe Arina is on fire? You have? I have. I have been sitting here, I have been singing Da dada, I've been talking for years now, and no one except for myself, I've had to pull that reference out of the bag. Yes, and that is that is what I get when I see you and that and it is very that it is not something that is like dependent

on follow a story. It is dependent on follow the emotion and the spirit of the performance in the room. And I think that when you try to are are forced to go in front of someone and say, let me package this in front of you and tell you

what it is. It's not easy to do. And so that's why I think people respond to you saying like, I have a specific story from my childhood and they are all interesting, but it's difficult and hard, and the journey is learning how to find out how you, inherently as a performer on stage are special and how you tell those stories. And it's something I'm thinking about all the time as well. And like again, Bowen, fabulous point.

Don't necessarily have to talk about my childhood, dub. But it's like I am at this impass where it's like I've got to try. I've got to try one day, and now I'm trying, and it's so hard, and there is no instant gratification, and it's like a relationship. It's like not a hot hook up, which some of my other bits are definitely hot, hot against the wall, punched me in the face. I still came, exactly, I still came, and I get to say goodbye and not think about

you never again. That forgot your name, I forgot your name, make up a name. In fact, some of my bits are really like that. And now I'm going into this relationship of I'm afraid, yeah, but don't be afraid. But that's what's happening right now, is I'm sort of waiting through some some stuff, you know, waiting through some stuff because because famously also i'm sort of like a code switcher. People assume a lot about me, but my past is

very different from the assumption. But if I tell you the story, it all adds up to the conclusion, do you know. I mean a lot of people assume that I'm a rich kid. That's a huge thing I've always gotten. And I'm like, honey, like, let me tell you not not not you know, I would say, getting to know you, I wouldn't have pulled l A. I would have pulled And I'm sure people tell you this all the time, like New York, because you have a very New York vibe to me until then and then you do have

an l A. Then you get to know me. And yeah, and if, oh my god, Katrina, if you see me in l A with rich people in l A, come on, seriously, rich people in l A listening, I You're gonna love me? What does that mean? Because I was raised in this theater? Yes, okay, so I was raised in the Cornet theater that is famously now the Largo. Yes, yes, where we are. We both turned into comedians. Bizarre because before it was Largo,

my dad ran the theater. It was the theater, Theater theater are yes, and okay, what I'm like, yeah, totally totally theater. Try I got it immediately. I'd say I'm Katrina today because today Katrina Rogers today. It's so funny clarities pretending that like Katrina Rogers means, like getting it is so far off? What it's so far off? Like what the real Katrina Rogers is? I don't think. I think we're tapping into something that is true about your mother, Katrina.

My mother is very perceptive, and that's really what we're talking about. That's exactly what we're talking very perceptive. Whenever I was drinking in high school, show she's lived a life. Oh my god. Okay the cornet. Okay, so the cornet. I was like the princess of the cornet. I was the princess of the cornet, in and out of the theater every single goddamn day off until I was twelve years old. Then Michael Flanagain, owner of the Largo, famously

bought it. It was a beautiful exchange of keys. Really, my father and him, they loved each other. He was sot. The exchange was gorgeous. He said, take the keys, Michael flan Again, I love you. Looked at each other in the eyes, kissed. And So the theater world of Los Angeles is changing right now. But when I was growing up, it was very bizarre. It was really like who does theater? Cricket? Cricket?

It was either first stop or last stop in a career, or it was side job like passion, side job like my father worked with Megan Molalley, many many, many times, because it's what you would do between jobs. And before she got Will and Grace, she was always working. And he's like avant garde theater productions, and that's how she met nick Off is actually through a production my father who was producing. How fucking fabulous is It's so funny because you forget them as theater they are and they

are now. It really does the big choices, the kind of theatricality that still works on camera. But it's like, but in this theater space, as in all like spaces actors in habit, there's this like procarity of wealth. There's people that have wealth that can like put on the production, and then the actors are like literally penniless, you know, or like just came here, or are literally like if this doesn't work for me, I'm going to kill myself,

you know what I mean. Like they're literally like either first string or last string on the rainbow of strings, you know. And um so I was and then I was like a scholarship kid at a private school down the street from the theater. So I would go from the private school walk to who walks in l A literally too if I missed New York and I walk I walked an hour to the gay bar. You watch gay Bar, Hi Tops, Hie Tops, it's a new one. I'm out. I'm out of the scene. I forget what

it used to be called. It's across the street from Beaches. I just want to say, if you walk in l A with a toe bag or a backpack or any pouch, you get the looks are crazy, that are crazy. Everyone's like, what the hell are you doing? And you're like, I know I'm not from here. You know, having a backpack in l A is psychotic. People look at you like, why aren't you just in half a T shirt? Where's your car? Where's your car? Are you? Are you homeless? Yeah?

I mean it's weird in that way. And it's like I was always interfacing with this hot with people that were fabulously wealthy and people that were dirt dirt dirt, dirt dirt. So it's this and then like, you know, my parents were the paycheck to paycheck we were. I was living in a carrious situation always, and I baby blanket under the box office, um desk would take knops there. I can do a box office blind. I like lived my life at the theater. No joke. I really did.

And you know, it was just like it was like you saw all walks of life here, you really did. People like I grew up in the theater, like actually literally like and it's like, I remember I was fucking somebody for the first time, you know, that hot intimate moment. He was oversharing about his life. At one he started talking and talking about his dad. Dad. When was this

just like once upon a time, two years ago whatever? Anyway, So it's like and then I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm from l A. Like, I'm from theater in l A. And then he was like, yeah, I can imagine you in the studio a lot, like driving the little golf carts. And I go and I get on top of him and I look him in the eye and I go, I'm from the theater and you will never have sex

with another lady from l A theater again. I am the only person you will ever meet that will say this to you, and I remember that with full confidence. And it's true. I'll never have s another person that can say that. Does it exist? Still? It does it? Weirdly, Uber is sort of rejuvenating live performance in l A. Yeah, because you can go out later and you can drink and have a good time, and it's sort of like

more seductive than it used to be. You know, I'm finding being out there like I'll do like a show a week and I'll feel like, Okay, that's the way it is. And like even um like people that I'm friends without there that are stand ups, like they only get up like two or three times a week, whereas like in New York it's like twice a night for

some people. For me, it was like four times a week and that was like fine, but like once a week now I'm getting up, an I know, I well I think that, but like you imagine in the nineties, do you know what I mean? Like I just think it would be like once a month or something really like, I don't know. It's just so nobody wanted to nobody wanted to do live anything in l A when I was growing up. So you're saying it felt more desolate

back then than it doesn't. Definitely, But there was like these vibrant communities, like the community that Megan and Magmalally and Nick Aferman were a part of. This like avantgarde theater troupe that was very vibrant and that was like a community that like congregated, but otherwise it was like these crazy vanity projects from like out of work soap opera stars that hadn't worked in thirty years and they're like, I want to do my one woman show called Take

Me or Leave Me. It's like it's like it was like that, and like I remember my dad had to put on musical about um, the story of Harry Krishna called Blue Doves, Blue Dove, and it was like the song it was blue Dive, the home they won the Earth, big gun, Blue du come on, jingle y blue Dove. You want to think that was a commercial Mama, and that it was like it was a lot of that. It was a lot of that. Nobody I have. I

have a question for you. So outside of Megan and outside of Nick, did anyone from that theater community that you were growing up with, did they transition into more mainstream success and really kind of wasn't just like the theater people were staying in the theater people. This is really interesting. Jane lynch Jane Lynch Um did like work with that avant garde theater company called Evidence Room It's no longer around Um. That was like an east Side l a thing, um, and then who else? There was

this there's out of the Cornet. There was a there was there is a production called Utopia that had a run on Broadway. I've heard. Oh wait, yes, I think I remember. And then like people would come into the theater with their stuff like Claudius, Claudio whatever, blowing through

life sideways. That was sort of like a plot became now I'm really gonna like after CRAPI I am, And then um, who else Julius Sweeney but that was she did someone woman shows there after her about of cancer, but that was after, you know, that was after and Lily Tomlin. My dad worked with Lily Tomlin for a while. So it was like but again obviously already famous, but but Jane Lynch really came out of that was like the only one I can think of. She's huge though,

I mean, that's huge. But found success in television everyone that's what you do, right, So you know, theater in l A. And then you moved to New York. When when I was eighteen and interest dying, I think to get fucked. To be honest, I just it was just I just was I was hyper sexual and I just thought that it was easier to get laid in New York and it was can I say, I'm in a reveal right now, it is much easier. But I think, but I think culture has changed in the like eight years,

I've know what ten years I've been here. You're right because in the past ten years unleashed in the world. But also like I also grew up in West who I did Ye King's Road and Melrose Baby. Absolutely, And I mean it's just the straight culture has changed significantly. Straights don't have sex. The sex over sex is over Ji Jack, you know g Jack famously said we're a post human and post sex. What was this whole debate? Last name? What was the debate? I was explained because

I've heard nothing about it. I was going to listen to it, but are coming here just to have like, oh yeah, culture right right? Um? No, it's it was a debate between and Jordan Peterson and it was like subtitled capitalism Peterson versus Marxism, um. And it was a huge debate. And I don't really know how it was confinded. I don't know what was said. I was just mark it was trending on my Twitter and was like what

the fun is, why is trending? Like I felt, truly he's a huge deal, but it's also like I haven't heard from him in like five years. Yeah, I'm just and one of the elements of the discussion with straight sexes over humanism. His quotes of recent quotability has been we are post human and therefore a post sex and he in an interview, he's asked, when's the last time

you've had sex? And he goes never. That's which I'm obsessed me because he's because because he's into erasing his sexual history, because he's famously dates models and ship but he goes, when's lasting about sex? Because never? That's so honestly, that's so honestly anti Trina, but very But in two thousand ten, New York was sex sex sex, sex for the Straits and I was eighteen. I was on the scene.

I was banging right now. You know, the straight scene is really cricket cricket, really, you know, it is really creeky, creek creeky. I don't understand necessarily the factors, but all I know is that my thing is that I've noticed that for in a straight culture, it's like these things are sort of like collapsing into one with like queer

stuff where it's like everyone's fucking. It's like straights aren't having sex because we're straights aren't dating at leastating because um, the world is ending, right because the world and um, people who are in committed relationships who are straight are fucking everybody. And then it's hard for it's hard to hold someone down. It's hard to like get to a level of commitment with someone that you're starting to date because they just want to keep sucking other people too.

I mean, this has always been a thing with the gay community. I'm I'm surprised but not but not shocked to hear that it's crossing over the straight community because I just feel like patriarchy affects them more because they've always had to live inside the box and they think, oh, well, monogamy is something that we do, and then with the rise of queer culture visibility, you understand that there really are truly no rules. We are all animals, etcetera, etcetera.

And so I'm not surprised, and I also think, like weirdly, um, sorry, I'm just gonna get my hands on it. I just think like with the opening of monogamy and stuff, which is um, it puts a lot of things. I don't think it's bad. I think it's fabulous. Or evolution and I believe I love Star Trek like I believe in the future. Yeah, I believe in I Oh, really interesting. We'll talk about that later. I um, but you know

what I mean. I believe like evolution is eminent. We have no controct We're gonna, we're we have to, you know what I mean. But so like, yes, monogamy, let's crush and let's bak it down, let's not do it. But in that process, I think monogamy what was bonding the straits is that men. This is really interesting note is that a lot of men actually don't understand why they're attracted to women and are just sort of biologically thwarted to do it. And they're like not like I

you know. Similarly, my hot take, my hot take, the cans are falling off, as we think because it's just such a hot take. Similar I'm also wearing like a polyster shirt. I have to tell you, beaut I thought it was cotton, but I'm sweating Polysi. I'm so hot. Okay, anyway, I'm so hot right now. Okay, So anyway, because now I'm sweating and I'm nervous, and We're just gonna keep We're going to track through this. We really we were

going to evolve through this. Because the thing is Embrace Katrina hashtag embrace Katrina is I think that nobody talks about this. There is an inherent shame in liking the opposite sex. There is that. Okay, I will. I am a woman. I've always liked you know, women are hot and men are hot, but I've always also really liked man. Okay, but I'm not interacting with men that are sexually attracted to me as much. I had, you know, gay friends very early on and women friends, and those were my

There's no platonic there was nothing. And so then when the protective it is, and then you get this these urges. And famously I was at girls school and I was hooking up with girls, but then I was getting these urges of like I need it, I need a dick, I need it, and I'm like, okay, wait, this is horrifying. I don't know how to talk to these people. I don't want to who are they? I don't want to talk to them? What do I have to say to them? But I need their decks and the shame is in

that need. It's like, how do I relate to this person? I have nothing to say and I just want their penis this, and I think, and that's where sexism is born, really, I'm truly because it's so in the same way with a straight men. It's like towards women and they also run the world, so then they're able and then they, oh, I get how I can get I can get my penis in a vagina? Is I'm going to dominate her.

I'm gonna neg her, I gonna make fun of her, and she's gonna be bashful, bashful, bashal, and with her mutual need for my genital she will deal with it. And that is sexism, do you know what I'm saying. And then we go monogamy, monogamy, monogamy, and then we have to deal with each other because there's this like weird, shameful bond. But with the polyamory thing, which I believe in again evolution Star Trek, I believe in no genders, all genders, you know, I believe in all of it.

Humans are over exactly. But with the with the lack of monogamy. Now we have to look at our sexism in a really brutal way, and then men have to question, why the fuck am I dealing with women? I can't talk to them, I don't want to talk to them. I'm going to masturbate or get a sex doll or have anonymous sex or whatever, or figured out that I'm actually pinning down something else, which is that I don't even like women, yes at all, and I don't even

want to have sex anymore. So it's that's huge, and I think, you know, the lack of monogamy is really putting these terms into a blasting stadium light, at least for me in the dating pool, because then some men I'm realizing I'm having sex with them, and I go, they really love women and they want the divide to be broken. They want to get intimate with me, and they don't have the language for yes, or I date men and then I go, oh, they have no use

for women. They have no use, and they want to be gay and they can't be for some other reason, maybe biologically they aren't or whatever, you know, they they're not fluid or whatever. But it's like, oh my god, what is the use for women. This is this what you're saying. In the past, the sexism was there was a violence and sexism that was outward, and now the

violence is anywhere. Well, I'm going to just close myself off and everything and that's twyes, And that's not translates to everybody and nobody at the same exactly, it's a non and like weirdly them anogamy was bonding the streets together really intense way, and you had to deal with the sexism quietly or to yourself or just with your

partner behind closed doors. But there's a contract maybe whether it was a real one wedding or otherwise, there was a contract of if you for other people that's not okay, yes, but now it's fine. So what's the need? Like it's it really does put so much in question, and it puts is sexuality by biological is sexual? Like what is sexual? And because there's no economic need for marriage exactly, monogamy, I guess like go outward. If you seem out then

like no one gives a shot. Is so interesting that we're talking about this because I'm also dealing with it, like in terms of in the gay community as well, because having moved to a new city for the time being at least um and dealing with like the politics of meeting a large new group of gay men. It's so interesting because you all meet each other and you think the first thing you think when you see someone is what do I want out of this? What do you want out of this? Like? What what will we

get in from it? What is it is your friends? Is it sex? It could be both, it could be nothing and so something that I had a conversation with someone who I hooked up with, and then it became clear the second time we hung out that it wasn't going to be that. We kind of sat down and

talked about why that is. And it's like, well, when something could be friendship, which is more lasting, why would it be the other thing, um, which is sex, sex, which is really just that and that dominates a relationship. But then you realize, neither of those things have to dominate a relationship. We're just used to culturally you either fuck someone and deal with the politics of the relationship later, or we were friends with someone and are surprised by

or dealing with the sexual relation later. Whereas we could live in a world where those things were all just more a part of an equal The equilibrium of those things was just something we accepted, you know what I mean, Like we could just have these kinds of relations. But the patriarchy has ruined us all, at least in our generation, because we are looking for all or nothing, and that

is capitalism. Capitalism the patriarchy that is tough, and that is I think resulting in a lot of depression in the gay community that I'm observing and you're saying like

amongst women, and I think secretly quietly amongst men. And you can see it in the baby boom or generation who are all depressed or at least, like I think, not all, but but a huge symptom or a huge theme like you know, you think about the movies they were making like ten years ago when they were first discovering this like American beauty, you know what I mean, Like like you are so like what I'm saying is like these kinds of things like we're the t and

shin is that I hate my life because I'm married and I'm I had children because I'm trapped. That is sad. And we are dealing with phase two of them, which is the solution forward and I think like this is inevitable. I don't think it's bad. Like I don't want monogamy to be something that binds anybody. I don't want that

for anybody. But we are in this bizarre transitional period, especially on a heteronormative scale, and the fact that I even have to even basically interact with a heteronormative culture what, which is profoundly bizarre for me. It's offensive for me, but I do you know, and and I'm sorry for being like vagina girl penis boy here, but I'm just talking about For all the listeners, I'm just talking about

a heteronormative culture. And that's why I'm using these vain and I'm sorry and us I'm just talking about pejorative heteronormative culture. Okay, thank you everybody. Anyway, because we are in Star Trek territory, we are moving past that. We have moved past that, honey, honey. Yeah, we are all on that invisible, which we really are, and it's we are just dealing. We are we are going to have to negotiate these terms and I don't know what it's

going to look like. I don't know what it is, but there is this bizarre sexual apathy that's going on right now in heteronormative La La Land because we cannot be bound by our differences anymore, and we are. We have to confront our differences. We have to love the we have to love the opposite. It's so it's it's so interesting to see a heteronormative culture embrace something like let's just say, in the mainstream RuPaul's drag race right with is born out of drag which rejects mainstream culture

and says this is not real. In fact, nothing is, and it's all play right. But then to see something like that get absorbed by the mainstream, I think shows we're interested in having this conversation and we're interested in the themes, but we are not necessarily ready to take all those steps forward. Because you'll still hear people say, you know, and I'm one of them, like I would like to figure out a monogamous relationship. I would do.

I love it. I love the idea of that, but I worry that the animal inside me will make that impossible. You know what I mean? I genuinely worry that. Did you did you read The Argonauts by Maggie Nelson? Have I oh shattered this is my huge thing is I got luck and pointed my arm when I got goose bumps. Look that's her huge look goose bumps. He's got to read it, Katrina. You're going to cut Katrina and is not? Is that really well? Can you just describe for me

the listeners what the argonauts is. I don't know. It's it's a whole book that's like a love letter to this the writer of mac Nelson's partner, who Mary Dodge, who's like an amazing experimental artist in Los Angeles, like a legend legendary Los Angeles come on in Los Angeles, Patrina. So she's writing this book as she's pregnant with their

child at the same time that he transitions. And the and like the whole thing that she ruminates on in the book is she's like, it's it's interesting to like to sort of fall into some mental model of heteroma activity while I while I have this human growing inside of me, while I'm also queerying sexuality and relation. Look like it's see the goosebumps. Look, I see it's a step forward into heater normative ideas well. But she's in a queer relationship and she is dealing with Yeah, how

just negotiating. She's negotiating the rules of the inherent question of what is my boundary and what is there? How can we be similar and different? I'm also intimately involved with this human that has not even been born or gendered yet, and it's like and it's it's so beautiful, and there's a sequel coming out, and it's Harry's perspective that you're gonna lose your Harry is writing it. Yes, You're gonna lose. I'm so excited you have to read this.

We do could never really would love. Yes, very Star Trek, just to switch the Star Trek theme that's been appearing in this episode thus far, compels me to ask you about We have to ask, now, are you a Star Trek Queen. I wouldn't say a queen. I would say I'm a cadet because I'm very new to the Star Trek enterprise. I've had what are you absorbing? Okay, So a person that I have been like vaguely involved with for a minute, but very heteronormative ambiguity, dealing with that,

negotiating with that. Yeah, and my best friend, who does giuse you with me? They are born on the same day. What day? Okay, Scorpios, Scorpio, liber cusp and love them my last boyfriend Scorpio. I'm addicted. I'm absolutely Oh God, Socials, the Appollonian Dionesian divide of me bra Apollo, Scorpio Dionesian. I can't get enough all my best friends of Scio. What are you? What are you? Leole me and Cat Cohen and can you read that? I now I'm a Pisces. How do you feel? Love that Moon and Pisces? Oh

my god, this is a water sign up show cultural stuff. Okay, I am to get this. I am and Pisces and I'm like rising Pices. I'm entirely walled. So you are you are psychic? I have incredible minds that can tell the future. You can and oh my God, and your friendship with mo also Pisces, queens, Queen and other good friends. Dave is a cancer cancer, truly cancer cancers. For me, it can be tough. Start with me. I get a

little with cancer opposed to Pisces. Sarah Sherman, who I'm touring with right now, literally since I was a baby, addicted to Scorpios because passion, obsession with darkness, obsession with criticality, so smart. I think all scorpios are genius is I really don't. And I have for a while thought you were a gene Stop anyway, so um, and I'm star Trek and I'm I'm truly obsessed. The cancers are a little hard for me, just because they're very high maintenance.

And okay, that the exactly, and the scorpios go, this is my boundary at one, So you go, I deal with it. I deal with it. Fun with that. Pisces go, I'm sort of scared. I'm crying and this is hard for me. And I'm like, okay, leo, huge heart, you know. I go, okay, okay, you're crying. But the cancers go. They go, I'm meaning the salad and I hate it now, and I go, you're gonna have to eat that salad.

You're gonna have to right where the scorpios go, I'm not gonna eat a salad, and Pisces go, I realized if I don't eat this salad, someone else would have wanted the salad, who really needed it. And they eat that salad and they cry later and they go out. I have diarrhea. That salad sucked. But I I shouldn't need it, but I need it, but I needed to. You have such a beautiful, holistic view of astrology. Thank you. Do you know the podcast What's Your Sign? No? This

is a really really good podcast. They do it in l A. I was on charts. Three comedians that do that are obsessed with astrology, and um, they read my whole chart and they, I swear to God, I wasn't really a believer and until I had my chart read and they were able to tell me like what was great?

And I was like wow. And now I kind of like part of me is like still a little bit of a cynic about it because it's like okay, but I actually like can't and I what I feel, which is that everything I've been told has been pretty I'm that's also a very huge star Chark journey is that everybody is sort of getting on board with the astroship. Famously very spic skeptic scorios are downloaded Costar and I'm like, this is beautiful. Are you on Costar? I am? I okay,

but owners I sort of Costar? What is? It's an astrology app. It gives your whole chart and then it tells you like stuff for the next three weeks. This is These are the transits. The thing is about co Star. I get really like nervous about the interface of co Star. I don't like the illustration. I don't like how it looks so much, and that makes me feel really like scared interesting a huge deal. That's why Leo big Heart the interface of co Star very very monochrome. Very Yeah.

I like one and it's like, I don't know. I follow this really weird instagram astro Instagram called one word Leo mood Son, and it's hype. It's these pictures of these hyper instagram like an iridescent girl like on a pink cloud in Japan, And then you're like, this is horrifying. And then you read it and you're like it's poetry and you're lone away, and then you look back at that iridescent weird like nails of earsdescent, cats eating a cup kick and then you're like, oh my god, this

is beautiful. Just check it out. I can't describe it. It's really weird. So do you when it comes with astrology, Like, are you someone that reads the horoscopes and follows those? Are are you kind of just like I know what my sign is, and therefore I know what I feel like. I do the transits. I read the transits because that's really what everybody should be paying attention to, because the transits to dictate, it's how this how the planets are

moving through the sky at a certain moment. So right now we're entering tourists today, famously, and there's a transit with your rainus right now that hasn't hello, dark gay cultures a bit anyway. Um and then I, uh so that transit, the transit that's happening right now, hasn't happened in eighty years. Wow, So there's gonna be a huge shift.

And what does Uranus represent? Yes, okay, absolutely absolutely so Uran no no no, Uranus Saturn, which is chronos, yes time ding dong ding dong ding dong Pluto, the sign of death. Yes. Uranus is about philosophy, our understanding of perspective of our internal visions. Yes, okay, which is really funny because it's an US internal vision. I love it.

I love it. The third Eye, George, but I story of the eye anyway, the solariness anyway, whatever about what I'm saying is that there's something huge it's happening right now, and we're going to feel it for a minute. And I read that's right. Nope, Hello, Katrina is alive and present today, right. That is from no. That is called

uranus shift, that's called internal present vision. And you, as a Pisces, will lead us on the Starship Enterprise, onto the Starship Enterprise, star Trek, back to star Trek with your Pisces vision. And the more Critrian is released, the better for the world. Yes, okay, I want to ask, we got to ask me the question we do have and what were the thing? Is the thing? I also in the best way that this conversation has been for days, right, yeah,

I feel in the best way like I've learned so much. Truly, this is a beautiful, nurturing, amnionic my god. Argonauts. Argonauts were in the birthing vessel liquid. Yes, okay, that's very Pisces. Connect with that word. I do. Second, I you saw it. Well, let's let's just dip our toe in this ruby. We asked the question to everybody, what was the culture that

made you say culture is for me? This is the pop culture more sort of like rude for me, culture that like infiltrated you at a young age that made you say, Okay, now I'm going to step into being the Ruby, the Collister that we now have. Okay, this is hard, but it's it's camp. It really is okay because check it out really quick. I won't belabor this, but I was famously not Jewish, and it's really hard

for me. I went to preschool at a J. C. C On Olympic Boilivard in Los Angeles, California, sat there bizarrely. I asked my mom the other day, why did you do that? She goes, I don't know. I was like a crazy liberal in the ninth Was it because it was full day? It was full day and it was cheaper than private. Why their kids to schools that they

wouldn't normally do because it's full day. Because my sister went to a full on and we were Catholic, went to a Catholic school kindergarten because it was full day and they had no other full day can garden and my mom was like, my daughter, we'll be going to school for a full day. So I went Bruka Little Colam every Friday, Happy pass Over from from Friday from ages three to five. That's affirmative. Okay, so huge huge.

I did not celebrate Hanakah. I did not celebrate any of these holidays, but I lied and I said that I did. Obviously I didn't want to be the only right. Then one day, my mom one year, she goes, we are going to celebrate Hanakah this year. I'm sorry that we haven't before. I know that you feel really like isolated, and I'm like, great, fine, my mom. In the back room of our we ho rented one story, yes bunglow, had a table where she would read to Row cards

because obviously, my mommy is also from California. Little you know, a little google. Mom's name is Sue that very cool West, Sue Lee West, and she would read her to row cards on this table. I was small, obviously I'm still small short. I go rummaging underneath the table. One day suddenly I find this box VHS tapes on it. Beautiful box was a gorgeous box, really colorful, and I read the words, well, I couldn't read it, but what it was. I popped in the tape. I popped into tapes. I

popped into tape is Pee's. I found a box at a Pee's playhouse at age three, and I come home, my mom goes, oh, no, that was your Hanakah gift. I was hiding it under my table as a Hanakah gift, and I know you were hiding this for me and my I watched one fog head exploded and the like tortured gay culture that is camp in a way like Paul Ruben's famously can't come out right, that whole thing. And then yes, but the fact we're still Kritrina goes, is he gay? That's kookie? So I mean at this

at this point, everyone's like Paul Ruben's gay. Yeah, but it doesn't matter to him. It doesn't it's too late. The patriarchy has ruined someone. It's true, he was even with someone like what's his face? Dancer workouts a tragedy, a tragedy, tragedy of the patriar. Absolutely and the camp of PE's Playhouse illuminated me to myself and then weirdly that allowed me to look at the ship my parents were around and producing and stuff like my mom produced a run of Lipsinka when I was seven. Do you

ever lipsynco? Yes? Many times? And she showed me that she stuffed her gowns with socks and it was it was like then I understood Lipsynca, do you know, like Pee's Playhouse. Was this like gateway to understanding, like, oh, the ship that my parents are doing is cool, and like I get it. And it's fun and it's crazy and it's referential and it's for you and not for you and you and not for it's exclusive but not

but populoust at the same time, it's for everybody. And so yeah, camp Camp is the culture of my soul that totally tracks And I mean this is not necessarily camp, but it sort of is in that orbit where I the first thing, one of the first things I said to you in person, is like you are so you are so Betty Davis. You you gave me that vibe not not not not that not not camp. I mean, Betty isn't Camp. She isn't well no, but now she is. Now she is in the characterizations we know of her,

You know what I mean? Because and Susan Srenthon and portraying but said it was hard not to do a drag queen Camp version of her because that is what everyone wants, right. But that's the thing about Camp that since I was exposed to it's so so young. I realized that I could, I could adopt a bravado and it and it be genuine to myself, that it was speaking to an essential expression rather than me being dragged inherited, you know what I mean. And so yeah, that's that's

what I'm all about. So I have a question for you, what are your feelings on the met Gala adopting a Camp theme this year? Is that? Really? That's now? I got chills in a bad way because it's this thing of when something that is so niche and it's a powerful and its nicheness then becomes for everyone. Now we're going to have to see Kylie Jenner come out in a Camp costume. But the thing is is Camp is

a really has been. Of course, this is happening because Camp has been in a very interesting place in the past few years. Because of Instagram and because of just like the increase of social media and fast fashion, people can buy camp be things without needing to really inherently search for them totally. They are everywhere. Now Camp is in a really huge shift to the point at which it's not really Camp is in a shift because I think what we know is Camp is going to change.

It's going to be because it always has to subvert, it always has to be relative to something else. Yes, And it's so it's changed. It because it is camps like campus, like um, you know, Asra Miller, like wearing a gown, you know. And and the only reason that's considered camp is because he is a mainstream star acting outside of the norm, right And and this is the this is maybe controversy. I think I think it's great wearing dresses. It's it's it's you know, he should be

actually loves those, Yeah, and he looks great. Um. But it's a tough place for Camp right now because everyone is checking each other to make sure we're all saying doing the right things and being like it was, operating within boxes that are welcoming or inclusive or respectful, etcetera. And now it's interesting because Camp is that one thing that was embraced by the other community and now anything

that could be Camp might test that. And do you know what I'm saying, I think, what what's happening right now? Because Camp? I've read a lot about Camp, um and like famously obviously notes on Camp Susan Sontag, there's this other book just called Camp, that is by this British author blank really I think so, I'll give it to you if you don't, because his take on it is it's anti. It's anti was Susan Sontag said about it,

which is um the interface of highl culture. His take on it is that camp is actually a state of mind. It is actually a psychology of people um testing the limit of society, of pushing it, and not camp as an aspect of pushing but not necessarily fully adopting. Famously, camp people talk about sex, but when it comes to sometimes the sexual act are completely frigid. Like that's a note he put in the book, which I thought was fabulous, fabulous,

And I'm like, I love that. That's so real. And I think, while we're entering the starship enterprise, the boundaries are shifting, and therefore camp has to shift, as you're saying, and the society's boundaries are moving farther and farther and farther back, that inherently camp has to move with it. So what we know as camp is now just in aesthetic and ding dong the met Gala camp is now just an aesthetic. But I'm saying because I adhered to

identifying as a camp person is no campus. We're finding the edge, we're finding the back wall, we're finding where to keep pushing, and I think we're just in a again. Culture. Isn't such a massive transition right now because we have really pushed it forward these past few years really hard, and with Trump and like it's just it's such a saturated hunt and I think people are getting zoned out. I think people are bored. I think people are not. So we're pushing now, and it's we're in a really

bizarre moment. The transits. It's the transit, you know, on a more micro scale, like like it's interesting that you're saying all this stuff. And then like I was talking to Suit today at brunch and we were saying, how like, of course love Suit. Yes, well she's the the yeah, the genius um. So we were saying how I was talking about how I don't get up that much now a and then oftentimes when I do go up in

l A, I'll be last. I'll be last on the lineup, And I think, well, because he'll be big energy, and I'm watching everything else like and like you know, stand up spaces and everything is still kind of still very

low energy, low energy, low energy. And then there's this, you know, the kind of what's happening in New York comedy or at least in the queer comedy scene in New York, where everyone's performing, and it feels like there's like sort of a shift and attention to like performance and sort of that kind of thing where it's like I'd like to be at a show and not know

what's going to happen next. Um. And I think that interest in that kind of thing is a response to being buck fucking board with you know, even straight culture becoming because Trump is camp, He's camp a room. It's it's it is unusual, Yeah, and it is bizarre that that's the story. Eatonists is like so so big, you know what I mean, it's going to the point where it's like the bucket is fall exactly the bucket and I don't know what the I don't know what that's

going to be like. Again, I think really Macro, I'm always thinking really huge, I'm always thinking about culture, capital c. And it's just like my sense, Pisces Moon, my sense is, you know, we're in a really a numb state right now, we're leveled out. The Mueller report was like, forget about it. I think everybody after the Muller Report was like, you gotta be kidding me. I'm out. Like I think that

literally was just like, you know what, I'm out. He shouldn't he you're saying he shouldn't be there, but there's nothing we can do. I mean, it's actually brass hats, That's what it's like. And it's just it just goes. So what's the strategy now? And I just think like we're going to go. I don't know where we're gonna go, but it's going to be interesting, and I'm excited. I'm not. It's not a negative feeling I have. I don't have

a negative, but you know, you know what's interesting. You know what's put us in this place where we can do nothing about a bad situation? Rules, patriarchy, rules borders, the kinds of limitations that we have in places like this, the amount of boxes we have to check to fucking do something about our hopeless situation. Yeah, the bucket is full. Yeah, I mean I the only issue with that is that I believe Trump is very antire rules and very chaos demon and very much like release the you know, like

and it's just like whoa, but it's very mad. It's literally mad Max. In fact, it is literally mad Max. And and it's just mad Max for your road. I just think I am focusing personally now back to micro is just about values, Like what does values mean? What is morals? Do morals exist? Like? Is that a real idea? And so I'm just thinking about yeah, just because of you're right, like the borders, but the like I want to have born, it's just like what someone chaotic in

the center being somehow protected by people. It's like it's psychotic and it makes no sense. And so now what we have is sixteen candidates, all stepping forward, all throwing their head in the ring. Biden will have announced by the time this episode is out, we have all these people. I mean by the time this announced, but by the time this is out, two of them might have dropped out. But but to be honest, where we're at right now is I'm looking at all these people and I'm like,

how do you how do you answer the cast? How do you enter the cast? And is the answer with someone who's a cipher because the big story right now and he is the big story right now. He is the big story right now. And the reason why he is hitting so hard is because he is diverse enough for people, but also relatable enough for people and just enough for everyone. But if you look at what's actually

going on, his policies are very much blank slate. And so if what we're answering this all with is a blank slate, then we have a lot of work to do with him, because I do like him, and I do think it could happen, but we have to fill that slate with something that really stands for something outside

of capable. He he's a cipher and that he's bare minimum and then that you can and that people can just project whatever they want on to it, and and they're projecting hope onto him because the Obama narrative is beginning, and you know what I mean, I believe it. I believe it is. I believe it is. I believe the Obama narrative, this is narrative is beginning. Where people see

him and he speaks to a lot of people. He's different, he comes from a marginalized perspective like for for the most part, and he is a change and that we haven't seen him before I'm not saying he's the same power, and I'm not saying he has the same sort and the narrative and look at how cute as husband and oh there he goes speaking French and we're impressed. And

you can't just be impressed. We have to something has to happen where it's like we have to either celebritize him in the way that it can compete with Trump, because I do believe the star of the election will win, and I'm scared about that because Trump is. Yeah, I mean, I just think my personal answer is just everybody has

to remind themselves about wealth. I just think I think for me personally, is like the way anyone will win is through the adaptation of unfortunately, the conversation about class. Whoever does that act vivaciously in a new way, in a way that catches our that's the person who's gonna as I think, but I think it's like it's a class thing. It really is. Obviously it should it always should be. That started happening in twenties sixteen. Obviously the

rattles of that. Trump adopted it in his own vernacular. But it for me, that is that's in this lull time of we're not talking about the we're not talking about saving democracy anymore. I don't think I think that's sort of I think we have to start taking its class fascinating. It's not protecting our politicians anymore. A story came out that said that I think it was like, I'm off on this figure, but I believe it's a large number of sport they would vote for Trump instead

of Elizabeth Warren. And I'm like, this is a huge problem. That's crazy. Well, it's because she didn't adopt a conversation about class fast enough to be honest, and it's also sexism obviously. Um, but yeah, the class thing is um at least also for me and growing up in like me as an artist, to be honest, it's all class for me going forward. Are you hearing this? My agent, my manager? It is? It is, it is, it is,

it is. I love this, don't you know? This is as we get on the enterprise, As we get on the enterprise, and I think we're about to get on the enterprise with I don't think so. I don't think so. One of the one of the top I don't think so, honey. Moments of all time came when Ruby mccalluster stepped on stage and said, I don't think so, honey, when your boot doesn't have a silhouette from the side, and that was that was a huge moment. I could you could

feel the air shift in the room. People said, this is something that I knew to be true, but no one's articulated it in this way. And and what did you do? You edify it was editing. Well, the first thing she did was slap her goddamn foot on the floor and point to her foot. So the audience, the audience, the visual experience for the audience was very powerful, and I feel that the audio visual experience was made even better.

But the fact that we could hear the foot stomp on the ground in the recording, go back and listen. Do you hear that here? Ladies and gentlemen. That was the last November. Thank you very much, and we're still talking. And I'm really proud. I haven't seen in a lot of bad boots in a while. I think it, actually, I really do. I'm not trying to pat myself, but I really do think I did. I think it was

a witchcraft. It was, Yeah, it was very much. Oh my god, you know, I don't I know, hot producer Imma is wearing some that's like a clog clog boot. He'll love that. I could never pull that off. Well, here we go. This is our one minute segment that we take to rant against something in culture that's not good. And we need to talk about me on mil Trina today. I have something. This is Matt Rodgers, could Trina clarities Rogers. I don't think so, honey, and it's time starts now.

I don't think so, honey. Parents with a whole brood of kids that have this a name with the same first letter acceptable, especially when you have upwards of four five in the un children. Let me tell you a story. Come on, I don't think so, honey. A family I grew up with they had five children. Their names Brent Late and this is how you end up with Brocks in the world. This is why there are men out there named Brock is because we have to follow these rules, honey.

And you put rules already in your nuclear family family, and we have all this. This is TACKI hunted. You know, if you have a house full of kids with all these names, you also have chats in the house, probably with the names written on them, stop it you want. Here's what I'm okay with homes that have an animal theme tying it together. I'm not okay with homes that have all these kids name with a name. And that's

one minute. I don't think so, honey. And that's because if you are the fifth of five and your name is also a B, you know what people thought when they were naming you, not about your legacy, about their own legacy. That's so true. That's look. Look, look, she points to her arm and Nu Nu Keller family, nuclear family. That family is nucular family. Killer. No, he's a nuclear family. Might even said nuclear family. I'm so excited that I

pronounced nuclear correctly when I jumped into Katrina. You are on has But tell me I'm wrong. Do you know his family? Absolutely? That is how Brock was when it's so true because you go Betty boo boo, Brock. We had one that's a Betty, that's a boo boo. And how many good bee names are there that aren't Brock? Sure, Bill fucking the Fans family growing up, the Cohens, Jamie, Jackie jaden See. And the thing is like at least

like Joan, is it also a product is a tough one. Also, Jaden, I think it's fucked up that will under flipped because it is not its obscene. You rob your children of their own identity. It's not about their legacy, it's about yours. And I also don't like juniors. No, no, juniors. Please give your child their own name. In fact, you're them a star's name. Give them a star Beyonce. Know well, that's the same thing where you're not giving them their

own identity, and it's it's relative. What did you say, why did you what did you just say? That's also if you name it, if you name a child after a celebrity. And then also, no, no, no, I'm saying you must follow in the footsteps of Matthew and Tina and name your child something like so that it can be a star. God, I thought you were saying name your child. No, but by the same token, if Beyonce's sister had been named Blanche, then I would have had an issue. But her name is so long. Did you

say there was something? Did you say Katrina famously words? What did she say? Oh my god, that's beautiful, Trina, is I love this? We're happy that Katrina is here. Tonight for the night of the live shown by Baby. All Right, so this is I don't think so honey, his time will start now. I don't think so many coffee shops that have cold brup but not iced coffee,

iced coffee. Okay, And look, the culture has to shift in this regard because you're not going to fucking jack me up on whatever insane sixteen hours brewing steeping process that is actually being put in some plastic now gene bullshit tub in your closet, because you trust me. I was a barista for all all of two days before I got another job. I know how how the sausage gets made, and it's disgusting and it's not acceptable. And

I see you. I just want coffee that was that's been dripped brood with ice in it, and not hot coffee that's been watered down. I want coffee that's stored cold, because you're not gonna drive me insane and veer the course of my day off of its track five seconds, and you better fucking believe that I will sue all of you for all your worth once I have the capital. That's one minute. This is important to talk about because ice coffee delightful cold brew potentially another D word, dangerous.

I've been on knocking on this podcast that when I have one cold brew, I become Scarlet Johnson in the film Lucy Yes, Killing Machine, and I need to be drinking something bowen, especially the writers from something I've just hell, I need a beverage to And this is what I've done, lady in gentlemen, as I live and breathe, I have switched to iced americanos, thank you, thank you, because it's just too much much. But I am cond of suffer the same thing as hot coffee with ice on it.

Absolutely not, because it's just a little a little bit of hot liquid, which is an espresso and it's already it's already water anyway, yes, And it's just like it's it's so much. The cold brew fetish is bananas, cuckoo cuckoo, Congkong like it's like it's like it is. Cold brew is a product of of asculinity and colonialism. I'll tell

you something. I'm going on that, but when I want to hear and then i'll counterpoint, because I think cold brew is a product of liberalism gone too far, true true, which is colonialism gone too far, we're all the same team. But coffee, I mean, nobody talks about with these beans come from well, I mean that is that is one aspect to it, of course, and we can't even get into that even even even if it places as fair trade as you know, think coffee. This is this is

how cold brew is colonialism. It just it is not a product. It just it is a cultural um. It is some Any dangerous, destructive idea is just language. It's just distorted words that are tied to concepts that where the linguistic thing is that the concept doesn't exist without the word. And this is what it is. Someone said, this is a new invention called cold brew, and it's beautiful, and this is how it's different, and here's how we can push it and market it and then it fully

fully just displaced ice coffee. Do you know what I'm saying? Displaced? And that is just colonialism. It is true. I love ice coffee and you can't find it in Amerry. You cannot, not anymore. Honey, go to France. I mean, like, where can we get a nice coffee where? I think the last one I had was Montreal. There you go both the name of the greatest city in the world, and Montreal just is eleven. London is twelve. I didn't even say Montreal because actually I have breaking news. Montreal has

superseded being a city and has become a phenomenon. Katrina, you are driving the Enterprise today. See I am at the hell move over, Mr Kirk. I don't even call you your name, captain, captain culture. Captain Piccard is queer cultured. Picard is queer culture. But didn't Piccard? Wasn't Piccard captain of the Enterprise. I'm unwilling to answer that question. No, but wasn't. The first captain was Kirk. First first captain was Kirk. If we're doing O G. Cannon Star Trek,

we always are. Not famously, I'm famously next gen, but I'm so new to this anyway, We're gonna move on. This is Ruby McAll I don't think so, honey, Ruby Oh. I can't wait for this. This is Ruby mc callisters. I don't think so many of her time starts now. I don't think so, honey. People not saying murderer before they say Billy Joel Oh is a murderer. He killed somebody with a car. Do you hy Long Island hunting. Brandy cannot catch a break. Yes, she killed someone in

a car that was an accident. She is a legend and she cannot escape this name. You know who else killed the car? The car Matthew Roger. He cannot go down the street without someone saying a murderer in a car. You know who can bloated semi talented songwriter be Billy Joel. He's so out MSG every single fucking night I hear people on the street singing is goddamn song, not even

knowing he is a murderer. Capital next time you hear piano man, no, it is an okay less queer version of an Elton John song written by a goddamn motherfucking murder text MSG in the morning, I feel like playing and he can. That's Bull on his hands on the street island, you know what I mean? I mean like Brandy shouldn't be called the murder ever, and neither should not do Brodger, But White does the past. Can you just tell us what exactly went that with with Billy Joel?

Because I didn't know that, and he was and somebody died, someone fully died, and nobody knows, nobody talks about it. Nobody knows. The other week, I was in a pizza strap yeah icon I love. I don't recognize the word pizza. A lot of pizza store and I was with famous Lee David Goldberg. Yes, and we were, you know, talking, talking, talking, blah blah blah. There's a girl who sits down. She was already making you know, she's already little too big for the context. She was like boogy jogging to a

disco song in the pizza store. It was just too much. And it was like, it's late, and we know you're from out of town. Do you know what I mean? Like you stop them right exactly exactly. It was like one and more, it's just like stopping. Then she sits down. She starts singing Billy Joel on top of her lugs. And I turned to David and I go, she's my nightmare. And then she hears me, come on, I love that, and she goes, what did you say? And I said,

you know what? I turned her. You know what I said something mean about you And it's because you're seeing Billy Joel right now and he is a murderer. And I go, he is a murderer. And I know for a fact you didn't know that. What did she say? She couldn't. But she goes, wait, you don't like your making fun of me because I'm sinking along with Billy Joel. I'm like, yeah, yeah, I actually am. And I said I never said I was nice. You don't know who I am. And yes, I'm a snob, oh Ruby, And

I just and I was just honest. I just had to be honest. I didn't want her to make her feel necessarily bad. I just wanted to her to see my point of view. And you want her to go up and go over and look it up later because guess what is probably on the internet for everyone's I'm sure it's like any other Kennedy's. Sorry Tree, No, I cannot get enough of Never Forget Chap. A critic also, I mean, is it like a Laura Bush thing where

Laura Bush Laura Laura also vehicular manslaughter? Are you Stori? Yes, yes, yes, Well we have to look into every case of vehicular manslaughter ow thing. We really do well do a special episode the next time because of that, well through every case of celebrity vehicular manslaughter. That's show that's done that. I mean, like a lot of people everyone's addicted to it.

I mean, it's like it's everywhere. But again again, Matthew Roderick, he goes Matthew Roderick, actor murderer, Like that's how people and this poor guy, I mean, very complicated figure. I could get into it, but I won't. He I have questions about him too, I really do, big, big, huge questions, very much star Trek questions for him. But but you know, despite my personal feelings about him, that's an intense you know,

it's intense to have that on your title. Brandy Again, Brandy is an icon star angel, one of the best thingers ever the world so much and like I just can't live it down. You can't live it down. Crazy unfair and the fact that Billy Joel has completely escaped this again, it's just the patriarchy. It's the patriarchy. And and also it's it's it's honestly what it is. What it is. It's his fans, which are probably largely white man and white culture and not wanting to give him up.

And it's your kind of same way with Michael Jackson. Now, well with Michael Jackson, that's interesting. I mean when you hear man in the mirror on the radio. Now, are you're not like, well, okay, White, Josh Sharp shivers, White shivers. But Josh Sharp pointing me to this episode of The Daily where one of the co hosts of Still Processing talks about this, talks about how he's like, it might be impossible to fully cancel Michael Jackson just because he's

someone so simon who just proliferated culture in every possible way. Yeah, and that he like invented what we know of as pop music. So even if you're listening to Rihanna in essence, you are also hearing the legacy of Michael Jackson. And I loved that take of it. I truly did. And it's so much more, and I'm doing it such an injustice by repeating it back, by paraphrasing it, but like there's so much nuance to his argument, and it's just like, oh, ship,

he might be right. Yeah, yeah, he has a point. So anyway, that's that's that's my little hot take, of which there have been so many. I think this is one of my favorites. There's nothing more I love than to finish an episode and called canon because it just means the legacy has been added to every single time record.

That's our legacy. Well we can invite someone like Ruby into the studio and so it's not only yes to the legacy, but and she has given something to the legacy, which is she has given life and of voice to Katrina. So what are you literally doing now? I'm on tour with Sarah Sherman. I'm you know, I am doing some acting. I'm doing a lot of acting right now. So fascinating, so fascinating. My podcast with Max Witter chuck it out where like it's very hard to produce, so it's not

very consistent, but but it's wonderful Cannon and um. But and also I have famously a fashion project called Sophia Paris that will come out very soon, a new collect I can't we we thank you and praise you, thank you, praise as do I as I do, I do, I do do I This episode and the Pisces Greg Greg get Leo finished every episode with a song which is at Bowen and Ruby's demand. Okay, I'm stunting with the man in the mirror. How did you feel? How did you feel? You didn't feel good? Did you how did

you feel? I mean, that's not its best song, So what's his best song too? Honestly, this is a hot shape sing it. I want to rock video that. This is like that, I like you do your your favorite song. Oh my god, I don't know. I feel like it's like I'm pelling's not my lover, She's just take girl. That also in context, Billy, she is not. She's just a girl. She's just a girl. Like it's like, oh my god, your beard, your beards are the kids think about the think no one's going to save you when

the beasts is about to stroke. Oh my god, you're not alone. I am here with you. Okay, we can't by by. This has been a Forever Dog production executive produced by Brett Baham, Joe Silio, and Alex Ramsey. For more original podcasts, please visit Forever Dog Podcasts dot com and subscribe to our shows on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Keep up with the latest Forever Dog news by following us on Twitter and Instagram at Forever Dog Team, and liking our page on Facebook.