"Call Me Tum Tum" (w/ Nico Santos & Zeke Smith)

are you? There's a video right now that is circulating on Twitter of Mariah I hate it already. No, no, no, I mean it's fine. It involves Maria, so do you okay? I'm more so. There's a There's a video of Mariah on a on a step and repeat with a ravenhered woman in her middle age taking a selfie with her, and then Mariah grabs this one by smiles, but while she's smiling, grabs this woman by the shoulders and throws her to the side. It very clearly looks like this

woman is Diane Warren. But the person who posts this video tweeted the caption the text the way she threw Gillane. So now so now there's this. Now there's this firestorm over whether or not whether or not this woman is Glene Maxwell or Diane Warren. And people are like, wait, that's Diane Warren. And Diane Warren is getting up on the replies. Come on, you know she's gonna get involved. No, and this, this is what she's saying. She's replying to

almost every tweet that's like, that's Diane Warren. She's replying to all of them saying no, it's not. If there's anyone that I'm positive has a Google alert for her own name, it's Diane Warren. But Diane is gaslighting all of us. And I never thought she would gaslight me to this level. But then I thought, you know what, No, she was gaslighting us when you know, we were talking

about why did you do that? And the Star is Born were like, she famously said that's a real that's a real good song that was intended to be good, and why did you do that? And it's garbage? So I I have come to the conclusion that she is an anarchist. And oh my god, oh yeah, I just watched the David Foster documentary and she is in it a couple of times and I'm like, Diane, what are you doing? I mean, Diane has good things to say, but David Foster, that man, uh, we could say a

controversial figure. So you watched the David Foster documentary, watched the David can we briefly discussed before we sort of segue into an actual important documentary on Netflix that people should watch, but which we which we've seen, but we also like sort of in the last few days, I've had I guess time for the garbage that is the David Foster documentary. What were your thoughts, Well, I mean there's a lot of great Netflix stocks. There's the Walter

Mercado documentary that is excellent. There's a lot of great stuff. But we're talking about the David. We're talking about the day, we're talking about the trash. Well, it's it was even more so. And then I would say five for two or um, what was the Taylor one? Oh Miss American?

It was more it was like it was like it was like self pr I. I can't put this in more elegant terms, but it's like to end the end the documentary on him, talking about his foundation, Like, come on, And then I think what you're trying to say is it's clearly coming from an egomaniac. I mean, and we we we've known that he's an he's an egomaniac, but then to see it all sort of live out in

this way. And then when you and then when you talk to the daughters, when you see the daughters talk about him, you're like, oh my god, like he was a terrible father. Well, here's the thing. They don't think he was a terrible father. And they make a point to say that you feel that they're being gaslight by their own father. It's not gasling, it's just I mean, the equivalent, the equivalent would just be Stockholm syndrome. I guess where it's sure, you just sort of want to

erase the trauma that you know your parents have inflicted. Well, you're saying a lot. I want to say if if they believe that their father is good and they have a good relationship with him, I'm gonna go ahead and bullie of them that he's a good father. Do I think he's a good husband, And do I think that there's a lot going on with Katherine McPhee yeah, we got to talk about Katherine. Well, I don't know Katherine. I've always I've always been suspicious of that one. No,

that's suspicious of Katherine. I think that she's chaotic, good in the world. But I will say with Kathery McPhee, I would say to her she should watch the documentary because at the end, when they're like, what about this marriage, and she's like, you know, we're gonna make it work. We talk and then they asked him he says the whole time how he's a quote unquote runner, and they're like,

are you done running? And he's like nope. And then it cuts to her being like, we talk a lot more than I think he did with his ex wives. And then I'm like, girl, I don't know. This be sounding opake, this be sounding opaque. It's actually a rutal culture. Number twenty two, Katherine Foster, this be sounding cake. Now. I did want to before we bring um our incredible guests seem so excited. I did want to just briefly

say um not to bring it down. But I have not been able to stop thinking about Naya Rivera, and I just want to say that she was such a capital t talent, and she was such an amazing not even just on Glee, Like in the interviews that you watch of her, you can tell by the way her castmates and all her friends spoke about her. She obviously was like such a force. And I stayed watching Glee for so many years after I think it was like still like to like a show to watch because of

her she took. I mean, let's just say this, the character of Santana Lopez should be on the list of the top two d the character of Santana Lopez and Brittany has Pierce, Like those were those were written to be like in the pilot and for a lot of the first season, like those were not written to be big rules, right, literally they were extensions of Diana on his character. They were just like her, like backups. But then they fully sort of formed on their own, and

then it's it's it's Naya and Um. It's very clear that Um that character became what it became, which was really one of the leads of the show by the time it was over, because Naya was so talented and you know, she sang the ship out of some of the songs she covered like that honestly is still The Definitive Mind by Taylor Swift is the Naya Vera version, and I'll say the cover supersedes the original. Yes, And also she covered Songbird by Fleetwood Mac on the on

the Fleetwood Mac episode that was amazing. She did a really good mashup of it was like in a Dell mashup of someone like you. And rumor has it that she's sang with Amber Riley. That was gorge and um, I'm I'm heartbroken that that she is not um with us anymore. And I just wanted to sort of give a shout out because Naya Rivera was the real deal and I feel like there was, you know, not everyone that's succeeding in this business truly talented, and she was

truly fucking talented. And it's a shame she just but she like played this role that like with such a model for queer youth. And speaking of models for queer youth, we have our guests, yes, indeed, we do have our and we are placing the pressure on them. Actually we can talk about this, but we are placing the pressure on them to be to be role models for queer youth and only be moral paragons for the rest of their lives and only be that for the rest of

their lives and not act out of Steff. Well, that's their first task is to do that and also sort of take this out of the depths of sadness where I've put this podcast I'm talking about. So they have a huge task ahead on the episode is to sort of uphold this thing as queer power couple idols and also sort of turn it around from the talk of death. So we're stacking the deck. But if there's people that

I know could just know, it is them. So we have them both, which is huge because both there's so much to talk to both of them about because they're both iconic. I'll just say, for one of them, who we know from our days in the improv group, we have to talk about our transgressions. Matt, you and I I actually do want to talk about that. We we we've got to talk about it because because Nico Nico Santos, who was one of the guests, he said to me in the beginning, he was like, yeah, I've heard a

lot about you. I'm like, okay, cool, Yeah, from my days as a bitch year old on an improv group, which was fully like me just coming in with all my insecurities about being bad at improv. I'm sure I represented myself gorgeously. Um But anyway, despite the despite the judith of it all, um Are, one of our guests went on to become a truly iconic cast member on Survivor, and I will say a game changer even hello, and such a game changer that he was invited to be

on the season called Game Changers. But prior to that was truly one of the movers and shakers of the season Millennials Versus gen Next, which I believe to be one of the best modern seasons. I think up there with David and Goliath. I always say, you know, if you're watching in the last ten seasons, I always say, um, you know, San Wando Star, I like, I really like, I like co wrong and a lot. It's really good.

I think it's great. And then Millennials gen X, which is has our guest, and then the next season was Game Changers and talk about iconic crazy ship that happened on that season, which which we will talk about, but I mean has really he's really just taken his place in the cannon and also features into the incredible documentary that's out on Netflix right now that I am so excited for everyone to hear more about and to watch, which if you haven't already, which is called Disclosure trans

Lives on Screen, which I watched again this morning. Just unbelievable and we'll talk more about it, and it's it's about transparent representation in Hollywood really from the beginning of the Hollywood film industry. And it's incredibly eye opening and I'm so excit. I did. But he is only one half of our guests today are other guests Sitcom Icon, film Icon, we you know, you know him, you love him?

From Superstore, from Crazy Ridge, Asian's One Time in l a couple of years ago, Me, Him, Dolci, and Booster were just in our little Texas key King Sandra Oh was yards away, and it just felt very powerful. It felt like a lot of aligned energy, UM. And it was just and we were just three three gay Asian men who worked for NBC UM and it felt it felt it felt great. It felt like some some reboot

of some kind, like a Time Horrors, Primetime Horrors. UM. So we're so excited to have our guests and they're together in their beautiful living room with their wal art. We'll talk about Oh my god, look at my barerass wall compared to their wall. We got to talk about walls. So please welcome into your ears, Nico sat Us and Zeke Smiths. Hi. I love having four people in the in the pod. It is nice. And now this feels right, It feels right. How are you guys good? We are

in the midst of trying to buy a house. Um, and like we just got an outbid on the house that we loved and now every house uh looks like garbage. And we just wish we had like seventy five million dollars to buy a house with, but unfortunately our budget is a little lower than it is. Can I just say I thought the pandemic would sort of affect, uh, you know, would be to our advantage not buying a home. Uh No, absolutely not. It is like hunger games out there. It is it's I want to bang my head in

a wall. But the prices, the prices have stayed the same, the same because everyone who like us, is still renting, wants to buy. The people who own, especially like people with kids, they don't want to move right now. So there are there's like three houses come on the market every day and we just sit in front of the computer and hit refresh and like it's been on the market for an hour. We're gonna lose it. We gotta go, we gotta see it now. I've been refreshing Zillo like

it's grinder, just like somebody. My gosh, I have to say, this just happened to my boyfriend. He also put a bit in on a house and got out bit and he's looking right now. So I have I've been intimately familiar with this struggle. I feel my heart goes out, what is the scarcity thing that's going on right now? Because it's like because the just the describing refreshing Zillo hits the same spot in my brain when I think about refreshing l A County COVID testing like sites, I'm like,

there's like nobody has anything right now. It's crazy. And yet you would think that, like things, the circumstances would change. What's what? So what does this mean for you guys next? I mean you you guys, just you guys. Are you guys are just working with a bigger budget hopefully er now No, that's I don't know. I mean we are thankfully we have a little bit of time. Um, I decided,

you know, we decided to look. I mean, our our lease is not up till till for a while, so we we have some time to search for a home. Which is great because I thought we were like, well, what are we gonna do if we find a house and we have to pay a mortgage and rent we can't get out of the lease. But it looks like this is gonna be a longer battle search than we thought, so it may be down to the wire. So I'm

so glad that we started early. Another part of it, too, right, is that you in order to see houses, it's more difficult, obviously, because in order to go into the new space, it's like a whole process. Yeah, so there's no more in person open houses. You have to like talk to your realtor and your real trist to call someone else and they have to call a third party. Then you have to sign a document, and it's it's a whole rigamarole. Um. Yeah, I might I feel bad that, but you got But

here's what I know. I know you'll find a house. I know that two you combine will harness the powers and find a home. Well, listen. I mean these are champagne problems. True, we're very, very fortunate to be in a position to be able to buy a home. But also we had the conversation this morning of like, don't you just hate it when a house has a pool but it's just like a little pool and not a big pool, And you were like, hold on a second, and like garbage. We need to stop talking like these.

But it's not like you haven't put in the work. You've done five years on Superstore Hunt. I have been saving. I've been saving for a very long time, and I have been going to you know, putting, putting in my time. I've I've done a lot of shitty open mics to be able to where I'm at. So yes, and you're right, you guys deserve in ground, pool, in ground, hot tub for that matter, the ground. None of that's above ground nonsense.

And you know what, ze because I mean, if if if Nick was done enough, should he open mics to deserve this? Zeke has done enough crazy bar basement improv shows with me and Matt to deserve this. Well, that's true. We have spent a lot of time in the mill do Field, Triple Crown basically you run it back around to Judith. Yes we met. Let's I hope you don't mind if we just talked for a second about please Judith. So Judith was, I would say, what what the gays

in our like I guess extended circle would consider. Were we sort of like the minor league gay improv team or at least they thought so that. Yes, So there were two gay improv teams at the time. One was called Fancy. Many definitely thought they were better than us. And I would say, like, if you were to rate us on the scale of like who is the more traditionally attractive team, they were definitely that And we were like the shloby gays, but we weren't. We had we

had hotties on the team. Him, here's the thing we got. We got people on on our team that are on television. Now. Yeah that's true, but but here's so funny. Well, Henry Russell Berkes is a very successful casting director. But I think we Judith has had a better track record. Judie, let's just let's just let's just get shallow for a second. Judith had Zeke Smith, Danny Lempert, Jason Sweden, Um Argent Chef Um jose me j I okay, and I full on and Nico. I'm sorry to say this. I full

on hat Harvard a little mini crush on Zeke. Well, we always like tease, like, oh when are we going to make out with each other? But I think we were such too scared little babies to actually we were at the time, but we shared like lingering hugs. Yeah, yeah, especially you bet that didn't come up with the NBC party with Sandro and I revealed it now for everyone to hear. I think we were too busy, like trying to catch glances at Drake and not get caught at

that party. Yes, that's Drake was there? Was there also? Remember bohen I made you, um, I made you follow me around and and try to get me to get introduced to Sandra. Oh did we did? Did we? Did we do that? But did not happen because I got so shy and so scared. But it's okay because eventually after that we went to John Shooes house and she was there after the Critic Yeah, after which which Nico was nominated for. Nico has been nominated two years in

a row. He's a critical favorite. Critical favorite was eighteen Come On new Come on, come on now recentcy bias. Did you end up meeting Sandra Yeah, we so we I met her at John Shooes house and um, she was very lovely, but she zeke. Actually we're having a much better connection. And even even it's so weird because like, you know, I'm good friends with John and they are all these famous people that would come to this house.

But I, I don't know about you, but every time I'm around like really successful, famous people, I always feel like the freshman at the senior party. Yeah. I don't know how to act. I act weird and people probably think I'm a stupid bitch or mean or whatever because I just act like I just yeah, I just become awkward. So no, I don't believe like I don't know what to do. Yeah, you're certainly coming off as a real

stupid bitch, mean awkward person and this interaction. No, you are lovely, but believe it or not, I was actually talking to Sandra about Bowen. It was before Sandra Oh had done S ANDL. She was like weighing it with every because Ken John was there and I think I said it before, So I think I mean this was like Asian Central party and I was just like the

happy little white guy there. Um. But you know, she was like talking about doing SNL and she was like, you know, I know Bowen's there, so it'd be pretty cool. And I was like, oh, actually, like you know, I was on an improv team with Bowen day and our team name was Judith. And like the thing about Judith is when we didn't have all the guys on stage, would be like, Hi, we're Judith, but tonight we're Judith lyte Ah and and she and that she was in

and then we went off talking. I know we were under the influences of many substances, so we became great friends. But I don't think she'll ever remember. No. I think I was about to say that you probably pushed her, you nudged her in the direction of doing SNL if you were like that's what is I was trying to say, like, you know, she was worried about the writers room, and I was like, well you've got you know, you've got Bowen, and you've got Julio and yeah, you know I named

other people who are you know, Suity. I was like, really like young, cool, like woke, awesome, funny people who are going to be able to write comedy that you will excel it. A great episode. She had a great episode that was that was to date still my busiest episode because I wrote three things and I was I was like, and I ran up. That was debut. It was and I was just like, and I have not had as busy for a week since. So I'm indebted to Zeke in a lot of ways and many more

ways than one. But wait, can can we close the loop on the student conversation because things broke down over the course of time and then I think, I think my priorities I was just busy with work and I was and Matt and I were in a sketch group together. This is not an excuse, but this is to say that me and my hang ups about like my own free time and like being stretched tooth and I was like,

I don't think I can do it anymore. And I vary in artfully, like sent an email the day of a meeting that you guys that we were all having one day, and I was just like, guys, I I think I think I've phased myself out of the group and I think this email is just confirming I probably can't be in the group anymore, and I like have like it keeps me up at night, honestly, honestly like a a professional mishandling of mine, I would say, one of several, but like one of the ones that like

really like where like weighs on me, Matt's making faith Well, no, because I don't even think you really have anything to

apologize for I do. I think it's more me because I was such a cunt, and I honestly like I I think that like, well, it's only really the only I think that my insecurities about my abilities as an improviser had me sort of like um, acting like I didn't like sort of when I was at rehearsal, like not having great energy, and that had nothing to do with with and with anybody, but all had entirely to do with me not thinking I was good or funny.

But also we're speaking a lot for what I don't What was your take on the situation, Zeke, Well, uh, and be honest, So look, I I didn't really care that y'all left the team, because what happened was the team began with Jason Sweeten and I, who's a very lovely guy in a hilarious sketch. Yes, his last name would in case very sweet Sweeten. And we just wanted to put together a team to like have fun because we didn't have a group of gay friends post college,

and so we just gathered people together. But then they're sort of was like this invisible power struggle in the team where um, I won't name names, but they were like two guys who I think y'all know who I'm talking about, decided that like they wanted to be in charge of the team and that this was the most interesting thing that they were doing. And so it became very serious and there were rules and meetings and all

of that jazz. And then I think what y'all figured out and when what I later followed was okay, like being on this improv team that does shows and basements is maybe not like the best use of my time

if I wanted to advance in my career. Um, so, you know, I I have like essentially been kicked out of Judith because before I was outed on television, you know, I had this you know, I had been outed on the island and then had this time period to come home to disclose to people and as you both know, like I did not disclose to Judith that I was trained. Um like that was that was not anything anyone knew.

And then there was speculation on like the survivor read it that I might be trans that one of the other team members read and shared with everybody else still active on the team. I did not know that. No, no, no, not on Judith. I'm so sorry. So I sort of got like, you know, I got outed on the island, which they didn't know about, and then before I had a chance to like tell everybody in a more intimate way,

I got out. And the people who were involved in that are still like the central members of because they I don't really do improv branches and go to fire Island and whatnot. Um, so like they kept the team and I was sort of like, I'm going to hang out with Jason and Daniel, but just I'm you know, I just remember the energy not being great, and I think that I was kind of I came in like after bowing and so I only really knew Bowen very well.

This is before Jason and I were on like a mod team together, so before I had really gotten to know Jason, and like, um, I guess what I want to say to you is that I had like any any, any sort of behaviors that you sensed from, like myself or bowing, Like I hope that can be in like the improv past, because I know that it kind of all sort of got weird. But like I feel badly whenever I think about, like any of my life from it, just like twenty to twenty five, like the way I

acted when I was trying to establish myself. Um, not that it was like actually monstrous. All of us have acted monstrously. All of us were like until eight years old, Like, yes, team, when you actually think about what it was, it was like us like having drama like between eight game and like trying to do make um up and try to get on a team to do it comedy in a basement.

It's just so funny now, yes, yeah, thinking about it seems it seems so important when you're first like starting to a career and trying to build something like literally anything you could do to to move the needle forward seems like the most important, most detrimental thing you could do, and it makes you crazy. It makes you crazy because it's a structured well, I mean, it's tongue specifically about

like the UCB sort of power hierarchy. It's like it's a structured proving ground and I feel like, and we can talk about people have had this conversation before, but like, well, I'm saying I'm giving to stand up where it's like, you know, that's a little bit more autonomous in the way that you improve your skills as a stand up certainly with like with the within the community, but it's it's it's a solitary thing in the process of solitary.

But like Nico, like you probably experienced a cutthroat nous that was stup. I mean yeah, but like what was like, what was your experience with it? Well, I I feel like the only thing about stand up that I really loved is that, Um, of course our politics involved with with the club scene and and how you're gonna go work in the club and how you're gonna advance the club and how to get to know the bookers and

all that. But the thing that I really loved about it is that it is this thing where, um, it didn't matter that I was the fami faggot on the scene that the family engaged in on the scene. Um, as long as I got up there and crushed. That was undeniable to everybody else. So all all those bros and boys, comedy boys who were just like I rolled ay and giving me their shade. You know, I couldn't say shipped to me because I did better than them

at the open mics. So and so that was the only thing that really sort of kept me going is that, you know, like they may think I'm just a stupid gay guy, but the fact of the matter is I'm getting up in these open mics and and the showcases and I'm doing really well and the proof is in the pudding because the audience is laughing. So that was the only thing that kept me going. And then was it from doing stand up that you were asked to audition for the Diversity Showcase. Yeah, you know, my manager

um really encouraged me. You know, I had moved to l A and I was doing stand up, and I was doing UM I was doing the panel for Chelsea Lately at the time, I was kind of getting real traction in my in my stand up career, and then he encouraged me to try it for the Diversity Showcase. And I was like, well, I'm not I don't do sketch. I'm not an actor, like I really knows, Like, just just try it out, you know, your in l a

people audition, that's what they do. So I kind of took my bits and turned them into sketch characters because I already do characters in my in my stand up and um. And at first they were like, you're really funny, but we hate your haircut. I had this really stupid, this really swooping sort of gay Hitler haircut. She had a cascade. Oh lord, it was like saved and severe in the size and then like a swoop which just

felt like this it was. It was very just very gay, and and CBS hated it and they were like, you're going to be a writer and I was. I was like, okay, well whatever, just get my foot indoors. So I got int as a writer. And then the other Asian guy in the cast um dropped out because they got a writing job. Andrew Law I don't know, yeah, so he was in the cast. He got a job for Seth Meyers I believe the time. So he had to drop out. And so they were like, let's plug in Nico in

the parts that Andrew played. And then and then that's how it kind of became a cast and you popped off on the Showcase. And then and then I had that one sketch that was really racist funny, um and uh and that's kind of how I I yeah, sort

of like my shining moment in Showcase. I mean, God, like, isn't that part of isn't that part of like I'm gonna I'm just I'm gonna be specific to like an Asian experience where like upward mobility is coupled with like moments of like, oh this sucks, like someone like you know, do you know what I mean? I am very grateful to the CBS Showcase. I would not be where I am. Like it opened so many doors for me and made

so many connections. But I you know, I feel like I sold a piece of my soul by doing that showcase because I did a lot of things that I did not want to do. I was asked to do a lot of things that I was like, this isn't right. Um. But you know, at the time, you know, it was so it was so weird. That was only two thousand fourteen, and it was still a very different environment than what we have now. Like the Showcase has changed. Now, Yeah,

it's a CBS Diversity Showcase. Everyone listening just so they know what we're talking about. It's the CBS Diversity Showcase, which, as Nico is saying, has since made changes to be to be a better environment. That the industry it stuff has has changed so much. But at the time, you know, I still was coming from that place where like, you better suck it up, you better do what they tell you, because the rewards that are going to come from this are are going to be great, and you know, and

I am benefiting from from that experience. But but yeah, it's it's a it's a it was a bitter sweet pill to swallow. I mean, we bown and I booked that showcase and then from asking people about it, decided not to do it because it was such a bad response we were getting from people that had done it. And then I think it was the year after that all of that came out about what it was like and what the culture was like. And now it has since changed a lot, and our friend Dave Mazzoni just

did it last year and had a wonderful experience. Um so it's it's great to hear that it's changed. It's a shame that it had to change because it was so awful, but but it's I'm happy to hear that it's gotten better and obviously happy that you did it so that you can be nailing it like now. Yeah, And I realized that my experience is very sort of unique in that, you know, I mean, it takes time to sort of build a career and build opportunities. I just I feel like it was a combination of hard

work and luck. A lot of the same things that I've that I've that have been given to me, that I've booked, I've just been lucky in some regards. Um, I have a question for you, was what did John tell you to have a British accent in the movie or was that? Was that a Nico choice? Because I think your your accent in the film is perfect, it feels real, it's real. I'm like, wait, Nico's wait, I

don't think Nico's. When I heard you speak as you, I was like, oh, when you see Mattea, when you see Mate, You're like, oh, that's yeah, that's like I guess that could be an American accent anyway, But thank you for saying that that that means a lot. I really know that was that was a choice. I really

wanted to stay true to the book. And I also, like you know, when I when I was developing the character, I actually was was asking these questions um uh to John through my agents, like do they want um a Singaporean accent because the singapore access very different, that's your pore in British accent. It's sort of like a hybrid um.

And you know, I worked with a dialect coach to sort of land this sort of like because because the accident I was going for, you know, Oliver's is very much like an outsider in his own family, and and he is pretentious and wants to convey this image of even more so of a wealth and class that that he doesn't have because he's not as rich as as the rest of his family members. So I kind of wanted to sort of like pashi snobby accent, you know, I achieve compared to the rest of the family, where

there's sort of like more natural British. Sure, tell the tell the tell the story about you trying to speak Cantonese and who you helped find the God? Okay please, So I'm on the plane to Malaysia. I booked this, I booked the part. I was like so excited. I was like, great, Um, I'm on the plane, um, you know, flying flying business class. Thank you Warner comfort and class. It was great. Um. And then I get an email saying, hey, UM, here's the cantonese line that you have to say in

that scene. I'm like, excuse, what was that cantonese line? Um? Okay, uh great, no, no, yeah, I can totally do that. I can totally do that. And they sent me, uh an audio, an audio, a file of what the cantonese line is, and I'm like, I speak Cantonese, you know, I'm Filipino. Um. So I learned. I learned it phonetically. I listen to it over and over and over and

over again. And then after working in it for hours, I also had the realization that the dialect coach that they have is this older Chinese guy who's sort of gruff, and Oliver is then sort of you know, classy, and I'm like, I can't say it the way he's saying it, because it's going to sound like an old butcher if I say it this way. So I had to go to my makeup artist who spoke cantonese. I was like, who was very queen. And I was like, girl, do

me a favor and say this for me. And then I had him recorded lines and then I listened to it. Listen to it, listen to hours practiced it. The scene comes. It is the scene where we're making dumplings. The entire families there, we have uh amah, and then Michelle Yo, the beautiful Michelle You at the table, and then my line, it's my turn to speak, and I was like, this is my moment. I've been rehearsing for so long, worked so hard. Say it, Nico say it. I say it,

and then this is silence. And then Michelle Yo just looks at me and goes, what are you saying? And I just turned right white, and I'm just like, I don't know. But she was. She wasn't like antagonizing you. She was just being like, huh, that's exactly what I was like. I was like, that's what it was. I was more tified, mortified. She can like cut you off at the knees with anything, just with like a glance

or like oh my god. Well, especially in that character, she she was so amazing and just wonderful, Like she could tell at a certain point that I was really nervous, as as one would be filming a movie aig big stars and a legend like her, and she knelt down and whispered to my ear just before we started rolling. She was like, just relax and like grabbed my shoulders, like just relax, and I was, And I was also like, yeah,

that is the iconic legend Michelle Yoh. We talked about her often on this podcast, amazing and brilliant and gracious, and that she was so good in that movie. And whenever an actress brings her own jewelry into the production, that's how you know that you're dealing with allegend. Yes, I mean, and let me just say we also saw joey that she wore that wasn't in the movie. Were like, huh,

one thing. One thing like that I feel like gets lost in like, because there's so much to say about crazy rich Asians, people don't talk about Jemmy cham Like. We saw it together, Bone and I saw it together, and I think I looked over to Bone and I was like, that is the most beautiful woman I've ever seen in my entire life, and such a good actress and is it now correct me if I'm wrong. But the sequel is Astrid focus, it's more to do with Astrid.

I have not read that. I mean like, I mean like I guess Nico can't talk about it though I can't talk. Listen, I haven't seen a script you talk about. I haven't seen the script. I can't. I K you want to know. Um So I think the thing is that the first movie departs pretty far from how the first book ends, and um, okay, that I can't say.

But what I can't say, I'm starting to filter, like yeah, wow, it's like it's almost like you have an n d A. But I think I think the idea is that they're just now going to do uh what they want with who's available at the time. There is the film like once we can film again. Yeah, I see. I think that's a big brush forward. I will. I think I might get in trouble for saying this. But I met with John before Pandemic head but the teaser viller, no no no, but he showed me the first the first

number in in the heights and jealous. It's incredible and and I'm so sad that like people aren't gonna be able to see it for another summer, for another year. But John, oh my god, and the best, so nice that I had met him once before, and then we ran into him on the street outside of an ice cream shop. Remember gave me He yeah, he knew he remember that I was the boyfriend. But then he had a speculus like ice cream and he gave me a bite from his spoon from his cup so I could

try the ice cream. You know what, that's the best. I'm just some like rando guy, and he's like, here, you can break people into two groups. You can share my ice cream right off the cone, or you cannot, and I prefer to be in the former group. Let's all share our ice creams. Of course, now during COVID, please everyone stay home and stay inside. No sharing of ice creams. But in general, once the vaccines come through, what's it's all like each other's cones. And with that,

we're gonna taken. We're gonna take just the quickest break and then we're going to talk about disclosure. So we'll be right back and we are back in fact, and I'm so happy that we are because this movie Disclosure, this documentary that's on Netflix now that I want everyone to watch, and I I have been telling everyone about it is unbelievable. Zike, do you want to talk a little bit about how you got involved, what it is?

Just like let us know, sure. Um. So, Disclosure Translates on Screen is a documentary that you can currently watch on Netflix Flicks and please do and once you watch it and are moved, which inevitably you will be, so tell everybody you know about it to to watch it. Um. We we had we had a premiere at Sundance um in January, like right before things started locking down, and and that was a ton of fun. Uh. We were

in like the Getty. Uh the way it works at Sundances, they turn all of the restaurants and art galleries into press studios. So like you're like, I'm going to Johnny's Pizza to take pictures for Getty, and then I'm going to the Who's the Watson Art Gallery to take pictures for Variety whatever it is. So we're, um, We're like in this pizza place and all of a sudden, like the Secret Service walks in and it's like everybody on the left side of the room needs to move to

the left. Everybody on the right side of the room needs to move to the right, and it's it's very calm um. And then like in walks Hillary Clinton with her entourage. Yeah. Yeah, so she like in walks Hillary with her entourage and everyone is looking at her and she's like Hi, hello, yes, and you're like, holy ship, that's that's Hillary Clinton. Want pictures? And then they left and you're like, oh wow, Uh, it was just there

was like Hillary Clinton just sucked. Imagine every time you've walked into a room for the past thirty years that everyone has stopped and stared at you as you walking. Yeah, that's that's It's hard. I I covered Sundance for Vulture the year prior, so I was there and um, it's just insane the level of celebrity that rolls through that very small really it's a street. Yeah. That's what people don't get is that it's just that one like road and you're walking by and it's like, oh, I just

walked past blithe Banner, like stroll him. But you went there with the film. But we went there with the film. We had a really good premiere, and then there were all of these plans to have a theatrical release UM to package it into sort of like an educational thing that we could take to schools and and we work

places to educate. But then the pandemic happened and we just really wanted people to see it, So it ended up on Netflix released on on June team, which was intentional because the I would say the primary focus and lens of the of the of the film is not just about how trans people have been portrayed, but also about how black trans people and trans people of color UM have been portrayed, and how much of what we have seen images of trans people, which are almost exclusively

written by people who are not trans, how those images have really shaped and formed who and what we think trans people are, not just too like what SIS people think trans people are, but how those images have informed how trans people ourselves, understand ourselves, and that like we both have work, like we trans and SIS people have work to do in like you know, untangling these image and our images and our psyches to like understand the real lived experiences of trans people UM and I saw.

I got involved in the project about three years ago. I was at outfest s a transpanel on out an Outfest which is an LGBT from festival here in l A. And Sam Feder, the director, just had a rough cut of twenty minutes, no commentary. It was just twenty minutes of images from d W. Griffith to Laverne Cox in Orange is the New Black and just seeing that, just watching the images and watching how one had bled into the other, and then all of a sudden there was

this abrupt little change at the end. It was really powerful. I mean, that's the same event that Laverne Cox was at, which um you know, inspired her to become the executive producer of the film. And uh yeah, I love the director. He's just like a great guy named Sam Feder, and he's a buddy, a buddy of mine. We really enjoy him.

But it's been um yeah, it's it's been so exciting for us because the documentary has been so like well received and so broadly received, and we just didn't know if it was just gonna get buried in the Netflix algorithm and the you know, the the the outpouring of um you know, support, and you know, the feeling that it's really touched people's lives is you know, I've been

very exciting. We're very happy hearing. I feel like the significance to the connection to Juneteenth is probably rooted in the sort of birth of a nation of it all, which is which I think, like is the seed crystal of the way that media representations affect perceptions of marginalized people.

Two with I mean with within I was gonna say two wider odds, but just within society because of that, because I mean, a portrayal of a trans person, let's say, a negative portrayal of a trans person will negatively affect a trans person in a way that like a racist portrayal of a person of color or a black person will negatively impact a black person. I mean, I'm saying something that that goes without saying, but like that's I mean, yeah,

it does. It is rooted in that kind of original struggle of media representation, which is which I think the movie even like like sort of unearthed in a way that really struck me, which is that we the more representation we have of trans people, then in some ways, the more violence is enacted upon trans people, which is like the chilling thing of it all. I think it is like trans people have been going to the bathroom for decades now and it's only within the past, only

in the past decades. Okay, so only in the past five years that like anyone has decided to have a problem with trans people going to the bathroom. Um. And that's true. With visibility does come more violence. But I think that this is like, this is an inevitable hump in any sort of struggle. Is you know if you when you live in the shadows, yes it's technically safer, but you're not really living at all. And as you attempt to emerge into the light, people are going to

fight you. But I think you know what, what we believe is that we will that we will win, and we will no longer walk in fear. Um. And you know, also how much pushback you get is dependent upon other factors. It's depended upon you know, our you a woman, are you a person of color? You know, so many of those other intersectional factors play a role in the amount of violence of transfers and experiences. You said something when the focus I mean, first of all, yes, I mean sorry,

I'm all over the place. But the documentary is remarkable in the way that is seamless in these the sequence of footage that it shows, and then it moves from topic to topic or genre to gen or project projects so seamlessly, and then at a certain point it gets to transmasculine representation and you talk about how, um, transmasculine representation isn't as or just being transmasculine is not as

scandalous sexy sexy. Yes, that might be true, but it still doesn't minic It doesn't really it doesn't take away from the oppression of a transmasculine person even though they're not.

Even though that it's it's it's it's it's more. I'm gonna say here, I think that what you're trying to get at is, um, the experiences of like the violence or the oppression that that trans people face is is split sort of whether or not you're a trans man or trans woman, because trans women face violence and pushback because they are hyper visible. Um, they can you know people you know, they're they're they are visibly read as trans or they are visible in the media, whereas trans

men are much less visible. And also trans men you know, it's sort of like you grow a beard and you cut your hair and nobody really thinks twice about it. Right, Um, but that does mean we we live in in silence and the shadows. We don't know how to find um other people like us. You know, you knew me when I was you know, before I really told people that I was trans. And part of that, uh, the reason why is that I just didn't have any trans adults in my life. Like I had a couple of mentors

in college who helped me transition. But once like you know, I got to New York, I graduated from college, all of my sort of like trans stuff was in order, and I didn't know how to go about being in the world as a trans person. And I was like, well, this is just a lot easier people don't know that I'm I feel a lot more seen when people don't know that I'm trans. But that did, sort of, like you know, cause a part of me to be put

on on the back burner for a very long time. Well, people say representation matters so much that it almost loses its impact. But the representation matters households. I mean, yes, we talk about it at least once every day. Yeah, But but when you see this documentary, you will understand in a whole new level why representation matters. Because, as you were saying, when you're growing up trans as everyone and there's so many amazing people that are featured in

this documentary. But as everyone makes clear, because there is no one to look when when you were the only example, that's the example, and when repeatedly those examples are I mean even in the quote unquote great films that have been nominated for Oscars or the portrayals of trans people

have been OSCAR nominated. So it's almost like saying to the viewer like this was capital G good and this is what is aspirational about you know, being trans or how how you treat a trans person, and you see broken down the documentary, no one piece of media has really ever gotten it right, because there's really and even the things like Boys Don't Cry, where there is so much great about the film, they completely erase the black man that was killed alongside to the alongside Brandon, and

so it's it's still even because there's so few examples, those are the examples that we have, and that's my representation matters because not only is a general audience watching that, but trans kids are watching that, trans people are watching that, and so as you were saying, it really influences the psyche and how they see themselves. I remember even being assis white gay kid and thinking I would die, but whether by suicide or AIDS, because that's what I was told,

you know what I mean. So I can't even imagine like only seeing something like the silence of the lamps, you know what I mean. Like, while it's an quote unquote incredible film Oscar nominated, it still was a depiction of a trans person that was a serial killer. And because they're so few examples of trans people on screen, people see that and they think, well, that must be what trans people are. And it sounds crazy now, but that's the reality, and that the film does it incredible

uh job of showing that and making people understand that. Yeah,

And I think, so Jen Richards is this incredible. She's in super Bowl, um, and she has this this line of the documentary which is like, the way we fix this is we just have more Because if you have more trans representation that is like ideally written, directed and performed by trans people, then like when someone does something shitty, you know, piece has like a shitty trans character, it won't matter as much because it will be diluted by

the rest of the good representation. Exactly, absolutely, And I just it's so it really is emotional, like when when they get to the point of the documentary when you see the credits of Oranges of the New Black start to come on, like the opening credits, the iconic opening credits that we all remember so well from the first time we started watching it on Netflix. Um, because you realize, like, you know, while it was about a woman's prison, you

know what I mean. Like, so even with that, there's like you take the good, you take the bad, we still got really one of the first like humane, like fully rounded representations of a trans person and it wasn't portrayed by a straight actor, you know, it was portrayed authentically by a trans person. And just how huge that was? Right, Yeah, yes, that's what I meant. So it was the trans role

was not portrayed by as actor. And even with even with the Candice Cane and dirty sexy money of it all, like the fact, like how soul crushing is it doesn't have to be to like get all amped up to watch like your TV debut or just like you're never TV debut, and then to have them lower your voice by octaves. It's like, oh my god, wait a minute, Like even after you do the job, and even after you're like on set and like that's a fraud environment where you're like making sure you do a good job.

The camera's on you, it's your it's you know, it's it's your coverage. You do it. And I'm sure like she like was going through a million different emotions in the production of that. But after the fact, after you wrap, someone else can still get their hands in there and funk it up. I don't know, It's a betrayal, a betrayal of the highest and to not to not even get a phone calls just like this is happening totally. Um,

speaking of betrayals, I don't know, is it's a dumb segue. Well, I just want to talk about Okay, you've you've talked to death about this, I'm sure, Zeke, But the the the speaking of disclosure, I mean, how do you how do you look back on this now? I mean now that you have even more distance from it than you

were talking about. So, first of all, I almost feel bad that like Zeke's survivor experience is boiled down to this thing that happened, and and and I because Zeke, you are an unbelievable strategic Survivor player and that needs to be and you know that. And he went after he went after Sandra Diaz Twine and he did not. I am the original new Slayer and I want to

talk more about more about that. But but I Bowen is asking about Jeff Varner's outing of you, and just like what that because it is really it's an iconic moment in television history for LGBT people. I was wondering if that was ever like discussed as being part of the film, because I was kind of surprised to see that it wasn't included. Yeah, so uh there. I think there was like a segment about my being did in in the film until like one of the later cuts

that was one of the last things cut. Um And I haven't seen it, but some argument should have been in the film. I feel, you know, I'm trying not to be a diva about these things because it's the

community on the youth. Um. But but like I mentioned, the director is a very close friend of mine, and he was explaining that, you know, sort of the significance of my time on Survivor is that, you know, much like in other media, the trans person is outed, but in my instance, people didn't you know, vomit or have a violent reaction. In fact, everybody like stood up and defended me. And the the bad person was not the trans person who did not disclose their gender history. It

was the person who outed me. Um. And yeah, so like the focus was not so much on the trans like and that's true, Like my my trans story on Survivor was more about like, oh hey, everybody rallied around me more than it was like Zeke got out in damn he found seventeen idols and triumphed and won the show. Um, because that's not what happened. Um. But yeah, uh yeah, so I guess to put some context to go in. I was on Survivor about three years ago. I did

two seasons back to back. So I did one and then two weeks later I went back and did another one, And in the midst of that second season, I was outed as transgender, and that I was transgender made global headlines when it aired. Um. And as to how I feel about it, I don't know. It's weird. Like a lot of Survivor, it just sort of feels like a fever dream. It feels like this thing. I'm pretty disconnected from UM. But I I guess I sort of feel

two ways about it. One is that like, I am very proud and I will always be very proud of how much of an impact that moment made in the lives of so many trans kids and their parents. Um. And I had a lot of emails from kids and their parents and those always are super meaningful. And I also get a chance to talk to people who I don't think I had an opinion one way or the other on trans people and now are like, oh, I have an understanding of what trans people are and I

would like to be supportive of them. I recently got an Instagram message from a trans dude in the Army and he was like, um, he had to go meet with this new commanding officer. And he was like, oh God, the commanding officer wants to meet with the trans guy. This is going to be the whole thing. And he walks into the guy's office and the guys like so Like I watched Survivor, I saw Zeke I get it.

Just wanted to let you know you're cool, and you're like all right, like that, if you can, if you can, you know, if my experience can make other trans people's lives like easier and that there are like fewer hurdles to jump through than like, I am very proud of that. UM, I do have misgivings about the ethics of how Survivor is made. I hear that, Yeah, I totally. I wanted to ask you specifically about UM, the way that they

treated it on set. I wanted to know when it happened, did they was there any conversation about was it up to you whether it would be included UM or was it just kind of like this is going to be included and so let's take a second and you decide the way you want to respond, Like what what happens during a reality television show where this thing that's going to impact your life in such a major way goes

down and then you have to continue. Yeah, so you know, he he said what he said, And I'm pretty sure I'm quite confident they knew that that was going to happen before we worked into Tribal Council though, I really really, I'm pretty sure, Yeah, he was alluding to it or had explicitly said that he was going to do it, UM, And uh, you know, so we walk in there and it happens, and it's just it was very emotional, so

everyone is just consumed by the moment. And I sort of like went into a state of shock and like didn't talk for almost like forty five minutes, but everyone around me was sort of like I was like, okay, what how do I need to defend myself? And then everyone just like around me was saying the exact right things that needed to be said. Um. And then I sort of like came back to and was like, okay, how can we like kind of just like put a bow on this and wrap it up? But it was

just it was very real. It was very like real two and a half hours of everyone's life that was very emotional, and there would have then there was no natural pacing to stop it. It's not like and nor nor is that Jeff style, right if Jeff is very much survivor being about the culture and what happens is

real and YadA YadA YadA um. And so it happened, and then I had an interview the next morning about it, and then it was basically like we all said like, Okay, we're just gonna pretend that this didn't happen, um, which like is the best thing you can do when survivor going forward, right, because now I became a target because like I had a story, so after it happened, there

was no way I was gonna win anything. And also like no one really like appreciated that something really terrible had happened to me and that I was sort of like spiraling out of control emotionally, like it was there were very bad things happening inside my head, but we

just like no one was talking about it. So like mercifully, I get voted off like eleven days later, and then like the next day, I'm talking with the therapist and the show therapist and she's like, so we're gonna put you in therapy when you get home, and we want you to find someone expensive and won't want you to

go once a week. And I was like okay, great, And then like a day after that, I was having conversations with Jeff about like we're going to make this a really important moment and if you can just play ball with us, then we can do great things. We can do people Magazine, we can like I have this vision and I'm gonna take care of you and I'm gonna fight for you if you can lay ball with us, and that's sort of what the conversation. There's never like can we air this? How should we tell the story?

It was more like a pitch from Jeff being like, hey, you want to be my friend, Let's let's do it this way. And I wanted to to be his friend, because when you're doing a reality show, it doesn't you know, you sign a contract. It's basically like guaranteeing them to give you your firstborn and then they can kill you afterwards, right like, and they put you in a position where you're made to feel really disempowered, like you don't have

any control over anything. And I had been living in survivor Land for essentially four months at that point, so it's not like I got back my autonomy or you know, like typical like you know Rare are Power zeke Um. That would be like, fuck you, this is how it's going to go. I was just like, okay, please just don't make me look like an idiot. Please just please, because because essentially you are at their mercy because they're

editing it. Yeah, you don't want to say, uh no, I'm unhappy with this, fuck you, fuck you, fuck you, because again you've signed away your rights to that. So really it's sort of like a courtesy that they're even coming to ask, because ultimately they're going to edit it however they want, right and you just have to be grateful and and say thank you. And that's what I did for a very long time. And UM, so if you're not a Survivor fan, you probably don't know that.

In UM season thirty nine, which was the Survivor season in the Fall, there's a young woman who was like repeatedly sexually harassed and they handled it very, very poorly. And I can tell you that I was treated very differently than than Kelly Kim, who's the young woman who had to endure they repeated sexual harassment. I was treated very differently than she was, and I think that a large part of that is I was always willing to play ball, and also I'm white and I'm a guy.

I think that those play a big role and are being treated differently. Anyway, sorry to go on this side. I think it's really important because Survived has such a general you don't get a more general audience than that, so the way that they handle something like that is really important. And I also wanted to ask so what happened to you? The outing that became a major story point for the eventual spoiler alert winner of that season,

who was Officer Sarah Lissina on Game Changers. She really really gave her a moment um to say that she had sort of come around and had like now understood in this moment of this all happening, and she had made a personal turning point. And I think that was obviously baked into the edit because they knew she would win. Um, what is your opinion of her and the way that they sort of gave that moment to her. Um. So, Sarah was my closest ally and my closest friend. UM

during that season therapy. You know, Andrew Belkie, I knew outside of the Survivor and we weren't that you know, Sarah and I were very tight, I allies on the show. Yeah. Yeah, Like I do think that is Um, that that is accurate as to how she felt in the moment, and you know, we continue to be friends. I remember being

very perplexing because I I loved Sarah so much. I really lobbied hard for her to win, and UM, because I was like, oh, we have this like beautiful friendship even though we are political beliefs stone aligned and we have, you know, different backgrounds. And then I remember she like walked into like dinner after the final Travel Council after we voted to give a million dollars and she was wearing a Maga hat, and I was just like, oh

my god. But for her, and I think this is true for a lot of the police officers I know, is that like they have this like this cognitive dissidence, this like split in their mind where they can have friends who are LGBT, they can have friends who are liberal, they can have friends who are Muslim or whatever, and they're like, oh, these are good people, but I'm still gonna vote for Trump because of these like external political

beliefs that I have. It's really sort of confounding because she gets such a heroic narrative on that show, and in season forty she has this big speech about gender bias right on and very articulate about it, like has this like feminist monologue. And then you're like, but how are you how do you not get there? You have to think the police officer thing runs deep. Yeah, so that's really But anyway, I had to ask about all about about that because I was, and I really was

wondering why they didn't include it in disclosure. I really was because it was such a I mean, I think it was one of the it was so many millions of people watching it. But impact was was the scale of the impact was significant. We need to take a quick break and then ask the question, and we're back. So we have to ask our guests the question. Nico Let's start with you. This is the question, what is the culture that made you say culture was for you?

This is like the formative thing that pushed your life into a cultural direction. Does that make sense? Nico? Um, kind of sure, Like like like like a formative thing that you probably saw growing up or you read, or like a person who you probably sort of uh imprinted on very quickly. I would have to say, I would have to say, you know, it's the the I'm much older than all of you. No, yeah, Um, the Wonder Woman TV series with Linda Carter. Yeah, yeah, with Linda Carter.

So like when I was growing up in the Philippines, they would show reruns of it, Um, and I just remember as a little kid being so fascinated by it. I'm just like, who is the statuesque white lady who was fabulous, and then all of a sudden she starts spinning and explosions. She turns even more fabulous. I'm like, oh my god. I really was so taken by her, and the theme song was amazing. Can you perform it? Autama like if I? Yeah, yes, fine and yes Adam

ties andrad there vibrato, vibrato right there. I was obsessed with her, so probably why it turned out the way I am. I well, I have a question. What do you think of the adaptation that is Galga Doze Wonder Woman? I actually really like it. Me too, I can't wait for the one the second one is coming out. It makes so good. Yeah, because I think that's gonna be more of along the lines of the Linda Carter because in this same era, So I'm more excited for that. Yeah.

It's almost like they did the first one so they could do the second one. Yeah, exactly that. This is the full realization of that. But did that like open the door to like other comic books or was it exclusively Wonder Woman in Linda Oh no. I was a huge, huge comic book nerd growing up. I was like I collected comic books, you know, X men, and I was like Marvel in d C. I had like signed comic books by Jim Lee and Art Adams. I played dungeons and dragons. I was like a huge herd growing up.

And then when I moved to the United States, I kind of was like, well, um, I need to reinvent myself because I was a huge stork. So what do I do? I joined the drama club, which and what kind of productions? That just stopped the boards. In My first role in Centennial High School in Gresham, Oregon, was I was a Naziene the sound of music. I had one all blocked the driveway, no command, Um okay? So

that did it? Did it? Sort of progress into more leading roles than junior year, also a sophomore year, so I was uh not seeing sound of music. Then I was doctor anagnosed in The Miracle Worker, I was Taunton Julian and Once on This Island my all white high school in Oregon, and of course I had to be Once in This Island and there were only three people of color in it me that the lady who played the moon, the woman who played the soccer moon, was

piscific islander. Yes, she was okay, um, and then um. And then I was not cast in the play, which was a huge scandal. I was. I'm still very hurt. What was the play? What played? It doesn't even matter who cares? And then we did. I also played like the Officer and musical comedy Murders. That's a good one. And then I was the modern major general in Pirates of Penzance. There we go. That's an impressive run. And then when I got to college, my acting teacher was like,

you can't act the ship. You're never going to be an actor. And so I switched car and they got in your head and that's why you were doing stand up saying I can't act, I can't do a sketch and so but I blame it on that college. Fully fully took their words to heart. And who who else who has recently started on NBC heard that same advice from that same program, Mr bown Yang, I from from from my high school teacher's zeke tonight, did we have we been over this? No? No, this is a different

So I went. I went to college with Darcy Carden. Oh that's right, Yes, she talked about this. Yeah, and I think she had a little bit better experience than I did, but we were both told by the program that so funny, right, And then the first season of her show, and it was the second season of Superstore, we were she visited his set and we were like, can you believe we are on back to back shows on NBC and that college in Ashland, Oregon was kind of like you guys, and not even that but critically

acclaimed like Critics Choice Award nominated both. It was crazy. It's crazy how life turns out. Okay, honestly, that's gorgeous. And now we turned to Zeke. Zeke, what was the culture that made you say culture was for you? So mine was the film The Three Ninja's. Oh wait, can you explain the plot? Because I think I know what

you're talking about. Yes, So the plot is that there are these three boys who have a Japanese grandfather, though they don't they don't so any indications that they had a Japanese grandfather, and they go and they learn karate with him in the woods and so they're like these young, three young Ninja warriors and their father is an FBI agent and he's chasing down an international arms smuggler who although he is selling like enough like bombs to start

World War three. Is protected by a group of like guys in ninja suits who are clearly white and carry swords but not guns and can be defeated by children, and so the like, uh, the the bad guy, you know, the arms dealer kids naps the kids, but the kids like fight back. Um, and yeah that's the When you said this, I was almost positive I knew what it was. And I was taken back immediately to this moment. What

I remember being so obsessed with that film. Yes, I um am particularly obsessed with the character Tom Tom, who is the youngest of the three brothers, and he likes to both eat and do martial arts, which were two of my favorite things as a youth. I actually went to the Taekwondo National Championships in Orlando, Florida when I was about ten years old. Um, because this inspired me to uh do taekwondo? Um, the Three Ninjas did, yes, And because you know, as a transperson, I did not

like the name that I was given at birth. And when I watched Three Ninjas, I was like three or four, and I so hardcore identified with Tom Tom that I insisted that people call me Tom Tom for a very long time, like so long until people had to be like you, we can't call you Tom Tom anymore. Like this,

honestly call me Tom Tom. Title of call me Tom Tom, call me Tommum that I I just remember it was one of those movies I think I had it again when like I don't know, like the first high School Musical came out, but like I remember being like I love this and don't exactly know why, but I think there is something about like like that like weird boys but can take on the world like that. There's something about like that narrative which is just like so fun,

the fact that they were brothers. I just remember it felt like more than a movie. It felt like a manifesto is really what it felt like. It felt like a guide to life. But it's so it's so worth going back and rewatching because there's like the dubbing and the shitty action and the plot holes. It's still great and fun but also has the like it's good because it's bad sort of fun. Have you looked for recently?

Do you know where people can watch it? I actually just watched it part of it at least this past week because a friend had owned it on his iTunes account. How did you of this? He has it on iTunes? Okay, gregor you can buy it. I also owned it on DVD and would be happy to send it to you. Honestly, let's do it because you'd be shocked. Like when we had Alaska thunder Funk on the show her, I don't think so, honey, was I don't think so honey that

you can't watch Spice World anywhere. Some of the best movies of all time, and I do include that you can't watch Like Alaska said it best. If you want to watch Spice World, you can't watch it. It is nowhere. I I owned several DVDs that I bought, like used on Amazon, of movies like that, because one of my favorite movies before it sort of got like re entered the zeitgeist was Dropped It Gorgeous. So I actually owned

two DVD copies of Dropped Dead Gorgeous. Yeah, because God forbid you lose one, at least you have another one because you can't watch it anywhere else. Well, now, always prepare, always, prep um always, but stretch each day. It's actually a

local culture. Number one hundred prep each day. But that is so those like niche movies that are the best, like you know what, you could not watch anywhere until recently Glitter, hbo X, I see God Bless And I mean, I don't consider Brandy still Brandy Cinderella to be like on the platforms because it's just YouTube and it's got like the vhs sort of like Patina on it. You know, why isn't the Brandy Sounderella on Disney Plus. I don't know,

We don't know. We simply don't know. And I have to say, I I don't have this as my I don't think so, honey. But it could be which is I like Disney Plus, but I don't think so honey. That Love Victor was moved so Disney Plus to Hulu because I watched all of Love Victor kind of because it's quarantine and I was like, I'll give this a shot and ended up really liking it. And but one thing I have that's a huge problem is like it's

perfect for Disney Plus. It's it's just so it's it's not like the kid is out fucking he's not doing drugs. That their whole problem was, it's not we're concerned about the family values of it all, and I'm like, I'm sorry, but correct me if I'm wrong. You can watch Avengers and Donalds gets his head fucking ripped off. Don't give me. We just watched Avatar on the other night and there's like full scenes of war in it, So don't give

me this family values bullshit. Do you know what I appreciated about Love Victor Um Natasha Rothwell, yeah, and the

movie and the Star of Love Simon. Yes, it was In Love Simon and In Love Victor because you know, in the movie, the style of the movie and and the acting in the movie is very different from the silent to acting of this TV show because it's it's a Disney show, right, So Natasha like adapted her acting style and the way she was it's very different from her character like and then she becomes the principle spoiler, she becomes the principles her the rhythm, over acting, the

way she speaks on the show is very disney esque. And I love the fact that she tailored her performance to a Disney format because you know, you have to adapt art, Yeah, and that's actually a real culture number fifty. You have to adapt. That's some mark of artist. And Natasha and this all goes back to I mean Natasha is in wonder woman is in love Simon in love mixture insecure, of course, I mean she is. She will bring Natasha to you wherever she shows up. She's an empire.

We have to get her on the show. I just want to watch her and everything and every reason truly great and has been truly great from the beginning. I mean we know from being like you ce b boys, but like a couple skate baby, couple skate I did it once? Did you ever do it? Seek? No, I have a I have beef with stanhod Apps so it never works Dan, So there are still some improv beefs that exist. Yes, But was he and fancy man? No?

Dan Hodo coached Judith for a while. But he was gay, but he was not out and we did not know that we did. We just thought he was a straight guy and did you just ask? Okay this because he is he is. He is. But we used to like he used to come to dinner with us and then we would go to gay bars and I would tease him about like being the only straight guy in the gay bar, not knowing he was deeply closeted and was trying to put his foot out the door and then

he he did not like me regardless. Wow, and that from that blackless you do from couples, couple of couples. Wow. Wow, I can't believe. This is like the third episode episode in a row where I've been like Love Victor's good, But here I am. Do you liked it, Nico, I'd like to do certain parts? Yeah? Did you watch more than the first episode? So did I? Bowen Yang watched the last episode the episode and how good is the lead actress Rachel Hilson? So I thought it was great? Yeah?

Are those are the guys in it? Queer Victor is not? Victor's gonna have gonna have to hold hold my breath on that one. But he did. He did talk to his gay cousin when formula right, did you see it?

I mean there there was, there's there's a there was a tweet that compared to headlines from Vulture where one was the guy from Love Victor talked to his cousin about his gay cousin about being gay, and then the other one when Love Simon came out, was guy from Love Simon talked to his gay uncle for about being it's like, come on, you guys, it's actually wonderful of these trade actors that have gay relatives to be represented on screen. We need more straight people with gay relatives

that are distant on screen. As Jen Richards said, the word is more right actors with gay relatives quickly before we move on to anything. So I don't think so many I do want to bring this up. I want to talk to Nico about this because I am like, I am constantly in an argument with myself in my head. It's not even an argument, but I'm just like, I

hate this thing that Nico. I don't know if you've gotten this, but I am like the pincushion in a lot of ways for people who just like get in my d M s and say, oh, like, what you're

doing is damn it. It's it's like men's rights activist Asian guys who are like, there's this conspiracy in Hollywood that it's only meant to uplift queer Asian men who are fem fem Asian men because it buys into like hegemonic patriarchal idea or like white supremacists, white supremacist ideals of like Asian men being these qualitative things in general,

and I'm just like, but wait a minute. Oh, but the line is there's so many representations of effeminine Asian men on on in media, and I'm like, wait a minute. It took me a second to be like, that's actually not true. Like you can count on one hand the amount of like Asian man representation, rolls, moments, whatever that are actually like outwardly queer, and it's like you're one of them. You go, and that's that's great, I'll count

myself as one of them. But it's like George to Ka maybe, but it's like, but it's not this k alec mopa, oh we love alia be deep. Well, but it's like, it's not this thing that would constitute like this conspiracy against Asian masculinity. And first of all, that is like couching its own fem phobia, in its own homophobia.

Are you getting these messages from Asian men? Yeah? Well, the thing is like I feel like and you might relate to this, and you go, I feel like to be a fem Asian guy in entertainment is to get it from sort of all sides, or from both sides at least, like you get some heat from Asian men who are like, hey, you're eroding like these these like masculine representations in media, and you're getting from like white

people obviously. But it's like I'm I'm getting to this point where I'm like, it's actually fucked up and it's a myth that it's it's just anecdotal. Right when someone says, oh, but like it's he's just playing a cliche sassy Asian guy. Like how like, but what like tell me what that cliche is? Pointny to the actual moment where you saw

a sassy Asian gay man roll their eyes. Besides, like these people that I've named, I do get messages like that, um or just like oh like Mateo and Superstar is like so stereotypical, and I'm just like, but but what's but Like but I'm like that's just who I am. Like that's the same. I'm just a fem leaning actually the thing about and I truly consider myself like there are days where I act more masculine and days where I'm a little more feminine. Um and I I just

sort of like going between. But you know, I mean when I'm sort of like in a more excitable mode, I I do. I'm just more FAMI leaning, and I just hate it when when people are just like, you're just playing another stereotypical gay Asian character. At every exactly every portrayal of a of a Asian guy out there is like a gay Asian guy. Those are the only actors.

But that's not even true. It's not it's not, that's not that's the anecdotal thing that slips in and like and like people assume that that's the right thing, and it's like, but wait a minute, no, like we haven't seen enough. Okay, let's say it is the stereotype, it's not being represented in media at least. But the question that I hate the most, and I also get asked a lot, it's like, are you tired or do you ever feel like you're being pigeonholed by only playing gay roles?

And I'm like, no, I actually have no interest in playing straight roles whatsoever. There you go, I don't want to play I just I I just want to play roles that there's representation matters. There's so few of us out there, and I only want to play roles that that look like me, that speak like me, that speak to my experience, like, I could care less if I don't wear when an oscar for playing the elephant man, you know what I mean? Although you could, I mean

sure I would see that production. I think is a two time Critics Choice nominee. You can go fund yourself college theater professor, I have. I do want to ask that, why do you think these people are saying that? Do you think it's anger that they don't see straight Asian men represented, or do you think it's homophobia? What do

you where do you think it's coming from? My theories that it's pure homophobia, But it's like couched and knees um, it's it's Trojan Horst in this like thing of like, well, we just want a positive representation of Asian men, of

Asian men who are not like neutered or whatever. And I'm like, okay, fair, I hear that, But you have you have these representations that you are kind of ignoring and racing just to snipe at me, let's say, because it's like you're you're gonna like say that like John Show and Seemulu and Steve Young and like and like Ken John and like all these men like these straight as angel who like all like embody some different aspect of Asian masculinity that does not fall into a value

system of well, to be masculine is to be more powerful or better or whatever, because I'm like, meanwhile, like I'm over here like writing all most of my own ship and it's right and it's fun and it's like no one's forcing me to do this. I don't know, it's it's just it's that whole like, you know, they want us to believe that there's not room for all of us, that there's only room for like one type of representation, and that by us existing that we're taking

up space and taking it away from them. I'm just like, we can all exist at the same time, yes, And that's at like I feel like like my friendship with Joel is like this and like and like my relationship with Unicho is is like it's never been like an adversarial thing where it's like, well, there's it's scarcity mindset and it's not like it's not like we're outbidding each

other on a house. I'm sorry to bring that up, but it's like there's but it's like it's like there's that is that is like the thing that you have to recuse yourself from to be is to be like, well, we're all competing. It's like, well, no, like it's it's it's it's amazing when Joel gets something that like has nothing to do with me, or might have something to do with me. It really, I don't know. We're more evolved than we think we are on and that that

that applies for everyone. That applies for us queer Asian people in media, and it applies to the Asian men who are like, oh woe is us. We don't have enough positive portrayals of Asian and entertainment and different from each other. That's the thing. It's just like that, like well, you know, like the thing is like you, me and Joel, we're probably in this will be in the same audition room, but it's like, you know, we're such different characters and

actors from each other. It's like we could all be in the same project and we don't have to be like the token Asian and exactly in that project. Nico, You're a damn inspiration, secure, damn inspiration. I think it's time where I don't think, So, honey, what do you say, Matt, I would say, yeah, okay, So I don't think so honey. Is our one minute segment that we do, which is where we take sixty seconds to rail on something in culture that we hate. Sorry, we hate um and UM.

I know that's a strong word. It's a four letter word. People don't like them, but that's the one I'm using. So I actually have two options today, and I'm gonna give you, guys the choice of which one I do. If you can believe this, this has never been done. Do you want to hear and I don't think so honey on kids going back to school? Or and I don't think so honey on Haraldo Rivera. Haraldo Rivera is gonna less of a downer. I think that's me. Oh yeah,

I also think okay, so you would like to hear Heraldo? Okay, so this is Matt Rodgers. I don't think so honey. As time starts now, I don't think so honey, Haraldo Rovero, you clown, your Fox News clown, and you're a friend of Donald Trump's. But that's not why I'm coming for you today. And if that's fucking saying something because you're a joke, I'm coming for you today because you have sided with people who think that Gillne Maxwell should have been given bail. You can go funk yourself and I

don't think so, honey. You're a ridiculous caricature with a stupid, fucking mustache. But let me say something. Gilene Maxwell should be in prison for the rest of her life for what she was doing to these girls. But let me just elaborate on why else. You're a joke. You Okay, they had to kick you out of Iraq when you were reporting there because you gave away an operation. You

drew it in the sand, you idiot. They had to During the War of Afghanistan, you claim that you were in the middle of a friendly fire and you actual we're three hundred miles away. You defended that hour by saying that news was a flirt quotea flirty business. You said that Trayvon Martin would not have been killed have you not been wearing a hoodie. And you literally wrote a book called Exposing Yourself. Also, never forget that Bette Mitler accused you of drugging her and groping her in

the early seventies. You fucked shave your mustache. I don't think so, honey. And that's woman in eleven seconds and stop posting our nudes on Twitter. You don't look hot, freak. Haraldo Rivera was also a great contestant on The Celebrity Apprentice Second Place, You Love to Lisa Gibbons the Queen. Also, I will say this, if you go to if you go to that wacko Haraldo Rivera's Wikipedia page, it's mostly

ship that he's done wrong. Yeah, you didn't even get to the whole al Capone's vault where he had the whole hour special being like, we're gonna open the vault, We're gonna open the vault, and then they opened the vault and there's absolutely nothing. Yes, nothing. It would have been a great area of acoustically singing because there was, honey,

nothing it was. It might as love be calling my damn shower, because the acoustics in that room were amazing from there being nothing in it and so that therefore you could sing. Therefore you could sing beautiful. And I would say that al Capone's vault is like Haraldo Rivera's brain empty and its role culture one D and two A Capon's brain empty. Love him. I couldn't believe he would die on the Hill of Gallene. Maxwell should have bail, bitch, not the dumbest thing he said, to be honest. Yeah,

but that's what sent me off today. Oh I see, I see. We were both set off by Glene related things today. Really, so you have a Gallene relation. No, no no, I'm saying my I didn't think somebody's not goinking about Glene. But my the thing I opened with the episode right about the Diane Warrnt of it all. Yeah, I mean yeah, Well, honestly, Glenn Maxwell, she deserves to be pushed off a red carpet by Mariah Carey for the rest of her life.

I hope that's her punishment that she that she, for the rest of her life will be pushed off red carpets forcefully by Mariah Carey. Yes, yes, yes, that's that's anyway. So at this time we will move to Bow and Yang, who has and I don't think so any of his own. Um and are you ready Bowing? I'm ready, I'm ready. Well, then your time starts now. I don't think so, honey.

Instagram features rollouts. Look, I want to be able to type in my stories with a Sarah font Honey, I want to wait a minute, did every anyone else's notifications thing moved to their profile page to the upper right corner, because that just they just sort of dropped that bomb on me yesterday, and I'm still questions during because I

don't think so, honey. Well, I'm just having to rewire my muscle memory, honey when I want to check my notifications and get that um you know, the terrible serotonin boost from notifications, And now I gotta extend my thumb all the way up to the upper right corner of my screen. Instagram features rollouts. I don't think so, honey. I want to be able to put a square photo without the rounded edges. I want to be able to do all the fun things on stories that I see

all all the other people doing right now. And I can't why. It's blue check oppression, sweetie. I'm being oppressed for having okay, and that is the hell that I'm going to die on. Stop stigmatizing bow and you. Famously, he feels we should stop stigmatizing wealth and verifications. Bowen basically metaphorically that that I don't think, so, honey. Was

this pool isn't big enough. I want them. I want blue checks d stigmatized, but I also want to lose mine, which therefore implies that I, too, uh harbor some stigma towards Blue checks. Well, you've been a little edgy on Twitter and Instagram lately. I'm not afraid to say, Okay, and what do we mean? I mean that you be on Twitter? Yeah, and I'm deleting. I'm deleting a lot of stuff I'm doing. I'm you are so happy when

you deleting. The first time I'm tweeting, and then deleting is when I'm saying I'm tweeting ship and I'm like, I don't want people to see this. This is stupid. I've done it. Wouldn't it be great to just do I really, I really just want to. It's a horrible place. It's terrible, so bad. Someday, someday I'll pull away for good. Anyway, but I feel I needed to like tell people about this episode, you know what I mean, because I want

ever want to hear all this. I want to be able to say, you know, in this episode we talk about fun things and also etcetera. But like then I feel like I need Twitter and then but also it sucks, So it's a it's a conundrum, catwo or is that what? Yeah? Anyway, we now go. Let's go because quarantine has not been kind to my cerebral functions. Um, we're gonna go to Zeke. Zeke Smith is going to do is? I don't think so, honey. And if you can believe Zeke, if you're ready, your

time will start now. I don't think so, honey. Well intentioned sist people writing scripts with trans protagonists who asked trans people to review their scripts then or but hurt when we tell them they did a bad job. I'm sorry that you want to get write a trendy script and win an award on our behalf. And I'm sorry if you're too gay, too scared to write your own goddamn coming of age slash coming out story and want to like remove yourself a step from your own story

by people. I don't think so, honey. There's a Bechdel test, there's a Veto Russo test, and here is Zeke's trans states. Should you write a transcript script? Um? Yes or no? Are you a person? Uh? You? Does the person do anything other than be trans? If no, don't write a script. Do you intend for a trans person to look wistfully into a mirror imagining there as selves? Then say no, uh, do you have five trans people's numbers in your phone? If not, don't write it. Are you willing to hire

me as a staff writer? No, don't write it. Are you a large, muscular a current slash former rugby player. If not, don't waste my time. If you are that rugby player, will you have sex with me and my boyfriend? If yes, okay, you can write your script. And that's one minute. Zeke, the Zeke test. I believe that that test is now in the cannon. It is that tes now canonical, excellent and for rugby players screenwriters who will not commodify a trans life in their screenplay, please have

sex with Zeke and Nico. Please you can find the lea Twitter. Yes, there you go, reach out, reach out. That was perfect. The Zeke test is in is in the cannon? That isn't. Yes, let's move on. I just I just heard they put it in Webster's dictionary, even though it's two words words prepared like, I weed, well, you can't it. This is the first time I've had notes ever because I just wanted to get correct all of you don't stuff, and I'm like, I thought this was like a okay, Nico, you and I are the

are the unprepared Asians and we're yes, that's finvolutionary, revolutionary. Um, Nico, I think I think this will be great. You're natural performer obviously, so this is Nico sante sis. I don't think so, honey. As time starts now, I don't think so, honey. That stupid video of the cakes that look like the real things and people cutting into them, What it's up with that? How dare you slander cakes in this manner? Cakes are supposed to look delicious. They're supposed to look edible,

first of all. They're supposed to look like joyous and you're they're supposed to to to sort of evoke a feeling of of of wanting to celebrate. They're not supposed like raw chicken breasts and a pair of crocs or toilet paper. What the fuck is wrong with you people? First of all, the focus of the cake should be making it delicious, not look like there are things using fondant as a crutch. Okayond is not delicious. Just focus on the damn cake. Make it moist, make it delicious,

and make it look like a motherfucking cake. And that's one minute. You know what I think, Matt, stop using fund as a crutch. That's rule of culture number fifty four. Stop using crutch. How do you feel about the show? Nailed it? You must feel horrible about seeing all those cakes come out so damn bad. Oh no, but we love, we love I do love that show. But like you see, you see all these like bakers sort of like creating these elaborate cakes that look like, you know, like nothing else,

And I'm just like, that doesn't look good. It doesn't look like it would taste good. I was not creative in the right way to be to taste good exactly. We're doing Keto right now, so cake has been on my mind. Oh I'm sorry, but you guys, you guys hang in there with Keto. Yeah, but Keto is one of the easy ones. Yeah, you can. You can still eat. You can dit cheese into hummus and eat that. But I want Rice Rice. Can we have a second. Can we just take a moment for rice? Rice? Rice transcends

cultural boundaries. Right, There's there's a rice staple dish and every and every culture we love Rice love Rice. I want to say, um, I do want to say that this cake's discourse is overlapping into deep deep fake discourse a little bit. We're being deceived. It's subterfuge. We're you know, we're being manipulated by higher powers and and and evil forces to mistrust reality. And we got to be careful. What's the new show on Netflix? Where the which is

the cake show? Because there's there's not just nailed that. There's also another show. I don't know, there's another show. It's like it's called like Delicious Cakes or something. It might be Delicious Cakes. Wait, have you guys seen The Old Guard? I saw that last year phenomenal. So you watched it without me? So I mean this is me finding out that bow and watched it without me as well. Well, I texted you the other night and I texted you

there tonight, would you want to watch The Old Guard? Student? You did not respond, bitch. I'm making him watch Hustle tonight. Oh my god. One of the best started it, but then we got sleepy, so we one of It's a car. It's Looney Tunes. It's you've seen it before, right, Niko, Yes, yes, I love it. It's Looney Tunes. It's it's it's it's a perfect film. I love it so much. It's so great. Speaking of watching things, let me tell you what you should watch if you haven't already figured it out. A

few things, let's talk about. The first thing you need to watch is Survivor. Namely, you better go back and watch I think the Millennials gen X is one of the best seasons of Survivor, and it features an unbelievable by Zeke, who was literally voted out because he was too good and it's not said enough. And Zeke iconic survivor castaway who wore glades and that is representation that

that's difficult to do. Um Well, most of the time I wore my contacts, but then every now and again I would wear my glasses because especially the last time I scratched my corny at by trying to put contacts in my eyes with like sand, and then I had to wear my glasses. Oh my god, quickly like how hard a survivor? It's very hard, Yes, it is, it's very It's hardest thing you've ever done. Uh like like within that, you know what I mean, Like like in terms of like girl do that is as hard as

Survivor is. But then like the like amount of time around the island. Yes, that's very hard, but then like you are tortured, you go through a traumatic experience, and it's not appreciated enough that how traumatized you are when you leave the island and how they don't care about your mental health afterwards unless like you were out it or something really really bad happened. Um and then they just like say, end you off into the wind, and

people are fucked up for decades afterwards. We talked, we talked, We had party on and we talked to her about like just watching herself in the edit. It's it's just so insane associative. Um well, anyway, watched Survivor Millennials versus gen X, watched Survivor Game Changers, and we of course say watched Disclosure Translaves on screen on Netflix. And that's not the only things with the people person who you can watch. I mean, Superstore was just concluded, sort of

concluded a tip season. We didn't get the finale. We didn't I mean like we were shut down with one week left to film. So they literally called us and like it's just happening, We're being shut down and Zeke and I were already um in uh in Burbank trying to go to the Costco uh superstore down so like so we we were like, babe, we gotta go to the lot so we can clean out my trailer. And we went to my trailer and I was like, oh, snap,

as four rolls of toilet paper in my trailer. I dis packed it with me and then we walked around and that Hi went. That chant went a week ago for a Cloud nine And so that finale was supposed to be America's last episode, right, yes, So now she will be joining us for the first episode of season six and hopefully for the second episode as well. We're going to try and you know, give her the proper send off that television icon like America. Do you love her?

She's amazing and she's the best, like everybody in that cast. Like I, you know, I I don't know what I did in a former life, but truly between Superstore and Crazy which Asians, like, those two families that I've gotten from those projects have been phenomenal and and I've changed my life. So I'm just really grateful for it. You just you deserve it more than really anybody, I mean God like, you deserve it. And wait a minute, if we're move on from Superstore. Ben Felman what a cutie.

I mean he's like my bigger, my big brother, so I don't see him that way, but he is quite handsome. Okay, you can think of him. I love that. He's one of those. He can. He's one of those. Now you put it in my mind and I'm gonna think about it. Um okay. Anyway, um you guys, thank you so so much for coming and doing the show. I think this has been amazing. It's good. I know you too. We were looking forward to this truly for weeks and what a fantastic episode. We love you very much. We hope

we see you soon. Yeah, that's you do if you're If you guys are down for it, totally do like a social distance hand. Okay we've been Yeah, we can do Springs week. Oh my god, I was. I was just there and it was so nice last week. Yeah. I think it was about there about three or four weeks ago. But it really was just nice to just did you get to go to a restaurant and everything? Now we just stayed in the pool. Yeah. Well that but also like the restaurants were like very much open there.

I don't know what they're doing now with now that California is a ship show. But this was like four weeks ago when it was still like sort of acceptable, So we would sit very far away with everyone mass on. It was just nice to be in a restaurant again. You forgot anyway that fucking no, how do we started on death and are ending on quarantine? I love it, we love it, and but that's that's the grounding force. Um. We end every episode with a song, Matt, don't we we do? How do get to? If I would? You

would kind of laugh with that, etcetera. If you want to hear that song, listen to the Leanne Rhymes version or the Tricia Yearwood version. Nominated for an oscar because it was in the movie Conair, which is really yes,