"Bucket List" (w/ Gabrielle Union)

like a genuine icon. Yeah. I just you look at her, even in the zoom box, and you go to this woman has power, power and presence, which I guess maybe you're the same thing, but you'll you'll hear Like we talk about how Matt tells her that she's done such a good job of speaking truth to power in her career, and I looked at her and I was like, god, Like, that's the through line in this person's life and career

is that she has always just been honest. She's been honest, and like that's why people That's a huge part of why people love her is that like she she even like counted off the things in her hand of you know, being a mother to a queer child, of being a black actor in Hollywood, of being you know, someone who's had fertility issues, someone who's had all of these different experiences and is able to always be honest about all of those things in huge, huge, huge platforms. So cool

I got I'm obsessed. Yeah, and a genuine talent too, and really excellent in this new movie, The Inspection, which bone I just watched. It's now a wide release. But it's a very different performance from her too. I mean it's really it's a tough one. It's a sad movie, but also it's it says something really interesting about parenting in the way that we expect to create strong people. It's an interesting one and I really encourage everyone to

go see it. But damn if we didn't also get into some culture that made her say culture was for her as well, and um, some good some great answers sheet a great I don't think so, honey. You know it's strong. It's a take. It's a take. But you know what, like with any I don't think so honey, if you have the conviction and then the audience has no choice but to like at least not along to be like yeah. Absolutely. She recorded with us before Thanksgiving, so that's just like a little as to risk before

going in a little asked to risk? Oh my god, you ever think about that? Asked to risk? My ass is a no risk for anybody. Okay, my ass is a huge risk. Your ass is a huge risk. We partied last night, girl, I'm hungover, and the girls got messy last night. The girls got messy last night. And no regrets, no regrets ever about getting messy. When you go see K Pop the Musical, you two are going to be messy little horrors out on the streets because you're gonna be popping your ass here or there to

frow up down fast slow. Oh my gods. Right, yeah, you could say, please enjoy our episode with Gabrielle Union, the one, the only and what do you say? Both? Should we throw it to ourselves? Let's throw it to ourselves? Ding donging American icon on the pod today, Bo yang. I mean this is a one for the books. This is one for the books. I feel like this book has every page. I mean, this is a big one. We're out possessing or comparing. No, no, no, we were out with the girls last night. We saw K Pop

the Musical. Everyone must go Please. It really turned the girls out. It was unbelievably fun and friend of the pod Jason Kim wrote it, Everyone go see it. You're gonna love it. But then on a pad like a post drinks discussion, we mentioned that our guest was on the pod today, and this table of queer people absolutely lit up, and it sort of became a round table about how iconic the guest is. The impact, Yes, and the impact and we're very very excited, absolutely, and guess

what what and guess what's going on? There's it's multiple projects, multiple plates being spun at the moment with our pal, Jabooky Young White in strange World. But I mean that that is a discussion that we can table or we can bring in with our guests. She just lit up. She might want to talk a little, Jabooky Young White. I thought you were going to and I was like, no, of course, we've never met Jake. Well we've never met Jake, but Jake and I had and the Stopties are gonna

be mad at this. Jake and I had a nice little just a nice little moment when he came around. As the season Now I know I know the story. Okay, so people, I did the promos with Jake and the musical guest was Camila Cabello is very much I would say, as aligned with Taylor. We don't have to get into let's not get into swifty politics. We don't want to drag our guests into this. No, no, no, she has

statement on the matter. And can we say Jake is very much engaged in the Instagram sort of agra of it all, like he will like keep track of what's happening in like our little corner of Hollywood of show. But first of all, I haven't checked in with them in a while. But it's not my place to reach out and be like, hey, what's up. But he's like, is with it? He's on the frequency? Does that stream Fire Island? You think? I don't know, maybe he might have.

Maybe speaking speaking of Fire Island, Jolako and Booster saw our guests in a hallway I believe, passed in a hallway and said the guests did him the honor of looking at him and saying hello, and he screamed and then weep and texted us immediately. So to call this highly anticipated would be an understatement. Right now, there's big buzz bo for the film The Inspection, which we just watched by Elegance Bratton. It is so fabulous. Our guest is so stunning in it. It's just like some a

way that you've never seen Gabrielle Union before. I mean, truly truly great work. And Jeremy Pope is fantastic in the lead role, just big actor eyes wet with tears and emotion. We love to see it, we love to feel it. Not only that, but truly just a part of the culture. I am so hesitant to say how many times I've seen Bringing On because it would approach stalker. But let's just say it was on constant loop in my home as a child. Thank you my parents for

having stars, because that movie beyond stars. Every sales day, it was like they would rotate it out, and so Bring It On was a huge thing for me. Bo. This is very exciting. Should we just bring her the hell in? Let's bring her in. Everyone, Please welcome Gay. This is too much. Thank you guys for having me. Oh my god, please, it's our distinct honor. Really literally isis like that was So we were talking last night about how that movie was decades ahead of its time.

M hm, Well, cultural appropriation is a gift that keeps on giving. So well, we were saying that this was a movie about that concept without even saying the words cultural appropriation. It's about how we live in a culture that steals from black women all the time without a being to preachy. I mean like a movie like that at that time for that audience like really formative, I think on a collective level for us to understand and key in too that it's fantastic. You know what's funny?

Is like at the twentieth anniversary of Bring It On, there was like a whole of best movie Villains and I'm like flipping through and there the there I was. I don't know if I can custom there I was as a villain, and I was like, oh, they I don't know about it's a misinterpretation. Yes for standing up for our cheers. Damn it. Uh there was a villain. I guess the whole I know, you didn't think a white girl made that shut up? Was just a bridge

too far, I guess. And I was a villa in and that is grild because I was outraged and then doing a bunch of press around the anniversary, the poll was not the only they were not the only people thinking that my character was like mean, did they watch it? This is insane. It tells you everything about how when black women speak, what you hear is totally up here. It has nothing to do with what we're actually saying.

The filter is it's this Rorschach test, and for better for worse, people come away with thrown interpretation on it. But the fact that like the Clovers win at the end is like the sort of uplifting thing and like the unexpect not the unexpected thing, but the thing that like is just in the end. It is the joy of the movie to watch the Clovers win justifiably fairly right there. And also, you know, another element of that is that you as isis and the squad did not

take her hand out, you know what I mean. It was like, you know, we don't need your help, we don't want your help. We're going we're going to beat you fair and square. You've taken advantage of us too many times and now we're just going to prove it. And honestly, what that's just crazy to me that more than one time you encountered that beyond Yeah, I mean I wish I wish it was just iis pore thing.

Um Yeah, people like I'll literally be sitting quietly waiting and they're like, oh, you're so intimidating, and I'm like, I have I haven't even said a word. I'm literally playing words with friends because that's who I am. And I'm intimidating because I'm being quiet. Like you talk, you're intimidating. You're quiet, You're intimidating whatever. This is what Matt was saying. Not to pull this into my life. But Matt was

saying last night, Okay, okay, let's go in. I was kind of like bemoting like the current state of dating for me, and I'm like, God, it's I'm in a weird place right now. And then Matt was like, well, it's because maybe because people might be anxious about approaching you or just like making the first move. And I go, I don't know that that's it. But if that's let's just say that's true, Like what do I do to

change that? Of course, race as a factor in a different way, but like it's things that like are immutably out of your control and you're just like, well, I guess I'm s o L and I should just just live with it. But it's a strange little phenomenon personally, I think it's weird. It's an odd thing, and like we it's like you don't have the language or you're not supposed to just call a thing a thing. No, it's it's weird, right, Like I can't change who I am.

I'm like, I can't change my silence. It's not going to be less deafening, I guess to you. But but you can change you, you know what I mean? Because and yeah, like especially during my single days, you know, that was a refrain and it just made me more aggressive, Like I went after what I wanted, um perfect, I flew through that bucket list. Let me just tell you, uh, okay, those panis reply it off the list left and right.

Dune by taking matters into my own hands and not letting people say I was whatever intimidating or it was hard to approach you, and like that actually because dings do it every day. They are not deterred by anything. I'm gonna go for it. I'm gonna stop waiting. So I said the boat last night, but was getting into it last night with somebody and I you know when you take your girl to the side and you sort

of have a moment. Well, we we took a turn about the room as my sister and I I want to do And I said, yeah, you better take this all the way because I see that you want to do it, and I'm telling you he's into it, and take it all the way. And then I said I want a full report. And I got the text today that we got a little sheepish. We got a little sheepish. I think that's my true self though I'm a sheepish guy. But I think inspired me because I think more bucket

lists have penises on them, should have penises. And you've got to be a closer. I guess I don't even like hearing that you're not a closer, like she had up and nook at all the parts, like that's what I said. This here see if you're not going to take my advice to take Gabrielle Unions, please and now I know that will be what happens. Like it's my good friend Gabrielle Union told me. I was, like I

told you the night before. If my good friend Gabrielle Union and my good friend Matt Routers are telling me, I'm gonna do you know who's not to segue into too much of a left turn, But I feel like jabooky, our mutual friend between the three of us we love is someone who like closes closes closes. That guy what a star? What a role model? Has press been fun

with with you guys and jay? I? First of all, I'm obsessed with him, and I kept trying to change how many years I've been following him because I think it's been like since he got on. I'm like a psycho fan. So when I found out that he was playing my child, I was like, and I had this mental list of all the questions I wanted to ask, and I had to finally say it. I'm like, when I like a tweet, it's really a retweet. I just I lack the bravery to just retweet. And he was like,

I felt that. I felt I felt that. But I'm obsessed with him, Like I am obsessed with him. He says everything I'm thinking. I just I I love him in a way that's probably a little unhealthy for us both. He's one of those people that always says that you're right. It's like, that was what I was thinking, but I didn't my brain didn't put it in that joke format or didn't distill it in that way. But that was

the thing that was it. When he released a song called BBC You right right before our Disney movie, I thought, oh, this this is going to be a perfect press tour. And it has and he has given me everything that I have needed in addition to the love of Yes, he's going to keep a jabouki on the same page an anthem for the bucket. Yeah, we just watched The Inspection and it's so great and you are so great

in it. But this movie is it's tough, and it doesn't let's just say, like not to give anything away, but it doesn't end neatly. It doesn't end how I think the audiences maybe going to feel or wanted to end.

You play a mother who rejects their child, and we see him join the Marines, yes, for self betterment and also some structure and to just you know, change his life in a positive way, but also deeply we can sort of understand that he is doing it to really earn the love of his mother and that's something he

craves because he doesn't have it. And the ending um is not neat and it's not necessarily reflective of like a beautiful world, you know, And I just wanted to ask, like, what did you draw on to place to play the root of this homophobia, because it is so deep and it is so dark, and I know it's the opposite of who you are as a person. You are an amazing ally and amazing activists and thank you for everything

that you do. You truly are just one of those voices that rings right through, and so I just wanted to ask what you draw on because it's very real. We feel this woman's real pain but real decision to live in this homophobia. So all my compliments to your performance and where did this? Where'd you get this? That was the That was the challenge, right because when Elegance was like, I want you to executive ruise like that this script as a winner, I can I understand how

I can be additive. And then it was like, I also want you to play my mother and I was like the fuck, um, what have I ever done to make anyone think I could pull this off? And he said, Gab, it has to be you, and he just kept going with he had so much confidence that I could do this and be good at this, and he's like, You're an actor, you can do anything we've known you could

do you know anything this whole time? And I immediately knew what he meant by that in terms of the black community has known that I've had ranged that I could, I could do, you know, literally anything, but perhaps you know, the other parts of Hollywood had not caught up yet. But he just had so much confidencing in me. I was like, I'm going to go for it. And trying to find a way in to a woman who's asked I would kick if given the opportunity was a challenge

because I'm like, what do we have? I don't even know what a starting off point is. And the more he started talking about who she was when she was a girl, her being a top student, a top athlete, and then you know, getting pregnant as a team and I was like, okay, let me let me go back to what she wanted when she was before she became a mother, which was to be considered good, was to to to follow the path of good girls, and and the way you get out of poverty for young dark

skinned black children, especially girls, like it's you. You're either a great student. You're a great student and athlete. You're just a great athlete. Whatever you can do to be considered good to get these opportunities to get out of here and change her life. Well, she gets pregnant, she still wanted to be thought of as good. And as her son got older, it became abundantly clear that he was queer. But she had clung on too organized religion

to still be considered good. And I realized that while I've never bartered with my children, I've never thought of my children as disposable. I have bartered with my soul in this town and in life, to get this much closer to the power structures, to get this much closer.

Like I leaned so heavily into assimilation, I didn't recognize myself when you are willing to put everything on the table to stay, to stay good bye someone's standards, who would not spit in your direction if you caught on fire, and you're willing to constantly shape shift for these kinds of people who are constantly rooting against you, you don't realize that at the time. It's called the American dream. As long as you stay in this box, you do with I say you're one of the good ones, You're

a good negro. You know you have access to the land of milk, and honey, and you're considered good and worthy and deserving. But we had that in common. So I bartered with different things, relationships, pieces of my soul that I will work a lifetime to to heal and recover from um. But we had that in common, that desire to be good, to be thought of as good and deserving and worthy. And she thought, you know, due to organized religion that said being gay or queer was bad.

She looked to save herself. And I can't say I've made different decisions when it came down to doing the right thing or doing the wrong thing and thinking about self preservation instead of doing the thing that helps your fellow man or um being the right kind of ally, a real ally. Um, you're willing to sell anybody out, your child, yourself, loved ones, everybody's on the table when you were on that assimilation train. Everything can though, and

that unfortunately getting to that dark ass route. I'm pretty sure my therapist bought a second home, just like I needed extraceptives like a mug. I've heard you talk about worthiness as this concept when you've tried to approaching as and I feel like that's exactly that's sort of the unifying thing in this whole film is that she is clinging onto any self worth or feeling of worthy units

that she can at the expense of someone else's. Meanwhile, Jeremy's character is someone who is concerned about protecting the man to his left, and the man too is right, and I think, and that's the sort of healing mechanism through which he can sort of still have this radical compassion for his mother. At the end, m We're worth Without giving too much away, but I think maybe that's

what that was. The thing that jumped out to me about Elegance is writing and is and and this film is that I was like, Oh, this is the way out. This is someone can be caught in the spiral of feeling completely worthless in a world that has made them worth less. But if they're enacting that sort of destruction on someone else, on people that they should be protecting, I feel like that's um, that's the tragedy of Venez as a character. And I feel like what Matt was then,

compliments to you for portraying that so humanly. Yeah, it sucks, you know it sucks. But so many parents, they really firmly believe that their intention is filled with love in trying to change their child deny their identity. But to deny someone's identity is to deny their humanity. So your love shouldn't be inhumane. And like, if your love harms your child, causes trauma abuse, there's literally eight million people in the world now, there's eight billion ways of loving.

Choose one that doesn't lead to harm. You know, that doesn't lead to trauma, and there's another way. So my hope in this role. Initially it was like there's one parent in particular I'd like to change, um. But if other parents see themselves in inns because as parents, like as reasonable parents, you try to lead with love. Like everything you're trying to do for your kids, your intention feels it feels so pure to you, It feels so loving to you. You feel like I'm protecting my child. Um,

but I'm here to tell you there's another way. There's absolutely another way of loving, accepting and respecting and being compassionate to your own child and taking disposing of them off the table from jump and not torturing them. Also, if they stay home, it's it's okay to love them. It really is. The water's war. I promise you You'll

be okay. Anyone that you would lose for loving your child openly and without apology and standing tintoes down for your child, anyone you might lose you are better off without. And that part I think a lot of parents get fearful of what they will lose. It's like they're losing dead weight. Yeah. It's also it's interesting that he goes to the Marines, and obviously this is based on a

against this real story and that it's there. We also see sort of like an abuse as betterment scenario, which and that's what makes it so hard to watch too, because I think, like, you know, there is this idea that we're going to like break someone into the best version of what they can be because nothing is going to phase them. But then I think when you become an adult, you realize that it's vulnerability. It's it is

that ability to break that a full human. And so this like creation of monsters, which they literally say in the film, it literally just creates a world of monsters, and you have to wonder, like what is the process of then unlearning that can it be? I guess if it's really successful, which it must be, because the Marines are you know they're good at what they do. It scares you, you know what I mean, And you wonder if it's it's just a very layered story, and yeah,

I think everyone can see themselves in it. Maybe their parents weren't the exact version of that, but there is this idea that like, I'm gonna be hard on my child and that's going to in some way better the child. But I have seen and known parents that do see a change in the older years, like I've seen a change in my parents now that I've become an adult, much softer, much more sensitive, almost a little rueful and regretful, because there's that thing of the constant turning back of

did I have to go that hard? You know what I mean? And it does create work ethic, it creates character, but there might be a little bit of a cost, you know. And and so I think that we see that in just the way parenting changes. I mean, you're raising children now in the year two and it seems like probably very different from the way that you were raised and we were raised, and it just a completely

different worldview. I mean, absolutely, my dad, I don't know if you guys ever heard of this movie called The Great Santini and it was like very hardcore, just very very hardcore man, And that was my dad's favorite movie. He also loved to watch war movies. But he had

three daughters and he wanted to make us. He always said, you gotta be bigger, better, better, just to be considered even and kind of like, I'm going to prepare you for what's happening out there, because if you can't take it for me, you're you're going to crumble out there. And turns out nothing has come close to what he prepared before. Um, Like I basically left my house ready for war, and you know it didn't come in the way that I thought it was going to come. How

you prepared me for toxic masculinity. Um, then maybe I would have made some different decisions. But yeah, like a lot of times we really think we're preparing our children, were protecting our children, and all you're doing is breaking your children. And some like you know you and I like I became crazy efficient psycho, Like my work ethic is beyond, but I will literally work myself into an early grade because I don't recognize where working hard begins

and abusing myself starts and stops. You know, doing too much. I have no concept of like until I'm literally like I don't feel well, you know what I mean. But a lot of kids, you know, I've met ninety year olds who are still wanting the love and validation from

their parents. And what you what you do is you're breaking them in a way that it's like humpty dumpy, Like you might be able to get some pieces like enough where they can cobble through a life, but there's a brokenness that nothing can fix that because the love of your parents are the first people that you love, are the people are supposed to love you more than anybody else. And if there are fissures and major breaks and trauma in that, there's only so much therapy. And

a lot of kids don't survive that. A lot of kids, and by kids I mean young children. I mean we we're seeing younger and younger kids, you know, kid admitting suicide. But you know, to that ninety year old who's still looking for something for their parents who have been dead for you know, a long time. But a lot of

our kids don't make it. And you know, they don't make it physically because they take their lives or there's a brokenness that can just that can just never be filled and it's it doesn't have to be this way. It just doesn't you know what I mean, It does not have to be this way. And I just I hope, you know, like my biggest reward or award that I could get from this movie is again that one parent

I'm trying to reach. But if you know the other parents, I mean, I've already even heard from you know who saw it this weekend. We were like, I screwed the pooch. Holy crap. I never thought of myself as a villain in my own child's life, and wow, okay, I'm going to do different and even like quote unquote good parents, you know, um, I'd like to think of myself as a as a as a solid parents, you know, um,

a good ally. But even we make mistakes and Zi has had to check us for filth often, you know, um, and trying to throw away some of the things that our parents gave us that brought it and spoiled in the seventies and eighties. And I'm like, now let's bring it out. It looks yeah, plum parenting, and it's as thinks that's a way that should have been left a long time ago, and that that's why you're in therapy, lady.

And I'm like, you're right, you work on that and maybe not pass on the same crap to my kids. But luckily we have a very outspoken child who you know, is up to date and is refusing to shape shift for adult comfort. She's refusing to compromise on being her wholeful as self for anyone's comfort. And I'm like, is

there a ted talk you can give? There's a little lot of people who can benefit by like getting these pep talks a we get from her, And and I know she's speaking to herself as much as she's speaking to everybody else, but like man and a child shall lead them. So yes, you know, it's a lot of pressure. That's it's very public too, you know, because everyone knows your story and like the story you are telling and living.

And so when she came to us and was like, because you know, between the two of us were constantly doing press and people refer to our children constantly by the names that they think, and Zia was like, I need people to know that this is my name and these are my pronouns. And we're like, well, I mean people know like the people that count your school and your friends and family. And she was like, you know,

because everybody I hear it. I read it like people reference us all the time, and I want them to use my name and my pronouns and me and you were like, okay, do you know how this works and how you get that kind of message to everybody at one time? And she was like, yeah, you'll do one of your pressed. It was like yeah, but then everyone knows and are you okay with this? And she said

I want my name. It was very first of all, the first thing I thought of a Tina Turner when she was like, I just want on but when that's a major part of your I mean, your name is the first thing you offer as a part of your identity. And she wanted to know, you know, just as my name and these are my pronouns, and I'm gonna give you a hot second to switch over your brain. She gave us exactly one school year, and I mean, I have to say I think d D was off book.

If you will no mistakes, like no no mistakes that she she gave us a bit of grace and but everyone's fallen in well, most people have fallen in and they realize, this is who this child is, and she's amazing and smart and dynamic and going to change the world, and we should all get behind her because she's she's doing it whether we are standing in her way or not,

you know, so why don't we get behind her? And what's incredible is that she in sort of the inverted way of the way that maybe you were parented, is that she is picking up on a lot of information in her outside world and going, oh, I'm preparing myself for my own battle, you know, like, and she's informing she's sort of like up cycling it too to her parents, where she goes, this is what you need to know.

Here's how you can support me. Let's do it. Like what a lovely sort of directionality that goes in where it goes up and down and outward. Well, I mean, she said the most the other day that she had joined basically I'm not I'm sure there's a name for it, but basically the Black Student Union at her school. And I was like, oh, let's dope, and she was like, and I joined the Latino Students group And I was like, okay,

is there a yeah? And she's like, oh, look you know, her two best friends are biracial and half Latina, and she's like, it's not my place to go to the meetings and speak, it's my it's my place to go to the meetings and learn and so I can know how to better support my friends. And I'm like, what, that's incredibly gosh okayhmore and yeah, and we were like, yeah, of course you would be in Laassa because you are a good ally and also know to not center yourself. Well,

my job here is done. What I've always really admired about you is you really do speak truth to power, and I I think one of my favorite things I've seen anyone do was the speech that you gave. It was when you got the Fearsome Fields Award, and you you owned up to something that I think we in

the queer community can really identify with as well. And I was really excited to talk to you about this because when you said that when someone like another black actress would get a role that you wanted, you'd be talking ship and like you be that person that was like not rooting for people, and that of course comes from a system that doesn't or it feels like because it really hasn't, and it's getting incrementally better as we see more representation, but it comes from like they're really

not feeling like there's enough, like and and the pitting against each other. And I think that as gay actors we experienced this as well. I can't say that I've been saying every single time I have seen a part, I wanted to go to X, Y or Z, and maybe I have said some stuff, But so watch you get up on that stage in front of your peers and say that. I think was really powerful because it was a moment where you called everybody in by calling

yourself out. And I just think that that was such a moment, And I wonder, like what went into the decision for you to be that honest, because it's really hard to be honest in this town, in Hollywood, because people will look at you like, oh, well, you know, she'll say like the truth and God forbid that, Like so we maybe we wouldn't want to like and bring her in or involved in something, but it seemed like it was more important to you to call that out

and move forward. But what went into the decision to be honest that night and also so honest about everything, like I was working on this speech with my life coach at the time, and as one does, and she was like, what is your goal, m And I was like, give a good speech. And she was like, should the truth be present in this speech? Or you want to string together a bunch of cliches like every other actress

is going to do. And she's like, you have an opportunity in this room to talk about all the things that we've been working on that you say you're on the other side of. Let's talk about it. I was like, okay, um, challenge accepted. And when I got up there, my hands

are shaking. I'm I'm looking out I see Oprah Um and Gail and like all of my like my best friends, but also you know, a room of my peers and people I have actively rooted against and people I know who have actively rooted against me, and we we all just accepted it as Hollywood. That's just Hollywood. And that was like kind of like parenting. But what if there's another way. What if we can move through this industry with radical transparency and honesty, And what's the worst that

can happen? You know what I mean? Like I'm already not getting jobs and what's gonna what's the worst that can happen? Um, But something amazing happened is my world opened up a I felt free as hell for the first time I felt free in a room like that. I had no secrets, I had no ulterior motive, there were no agendas. I just wanted to tell the truth.

And then each person who got up after me was like, Okay, well here was my speech, and after that like, I'm just gonna get up here and tell and that's all. I want all to be free. But we can't be free living a lie. We can't be free not calling a thing a thing, you know what I mean? And it changed my life and I I got way more after that speech, because there's a fear of like, oh my god, I'm gonna be honest and everyone's gonna hate me and I'm never gonna be seen from again. And

it was the opposite. Every time I opt for just the truth, just my reality, I've gotten more and and and by more, I mean more people are like, thank you for saying that. I thought I was alone on an island. I thought I was the only one. So, whether it's fertility, whether it's racism, whether it's colorism, whether it's raising a queer child, whether it's equity, the farce of equity in in Hollywood or in any major industry. It doesn't serve anyone to to spout lies like change

doesn't happen from upholding the company line. It never will. So you can do the bidding of those same people who won't spit in your direction when you're on fire, or you can free yourself and others by telling the truth and banning together. And that's kind of what happened. Yeah, well, we here on last culture are big fans of burning it down. So burn it all down and right a

slift yea poetry. So we u We have a question that we asked every single one of our guests, and this, uh is when we are asking you right now, which is what was the culture that made you say culture was for you, Gabrielle Union. This is the piece of pop culture that you were exposed to in your life at some point. It would be like a movie, a musical artist, something, a TV show, something in your surroundings that you can look back on now and you think that made me who I was, or at least start

to become who I was. Yah, it's a big question, but it's actually quite simple. A few answers, but it can be multiple answers as well. Well. Okay, so I would say to take it off Greece, I'm I'm a Grease one and two super fans, but also like it. It changed the way I look at quote unquote bad girls. Like my alias forever was Chacha what we called her Chacha dukie Oriole because that's what it sounded like to us.

Her character name was Sacha DiGregorio, repretatious, but that all was like, wait, that girls seem to have a lot more fun. Sure Stoccard Channing's character of Rizzo had a pregnancy scare. Okay, perhaps you know have safer sex than Rizzo, but she sounds like she's she's having the most fun of it of everybody. So I kind of lean more into, like, I don't know, living on the edge once I got a car um but also playing a team well into my thirties kind of took me in there. Like watching

the Barge. Like every summer I would go back to Omaha and that's where I got to watch b ET and I would just watch the Et because I was the only time I got to see black people, and I saw the barge and Bunny to Barge and she was like writing in a in a convertible, singing with her brothers. And I wanted to be Bunny to Barge and I wanted to be like that that bitch, so Bunny to Barge and then any like everything Janet Jackson, like I wanted to be Janet Jackson, my super hot dentist.

Um really he was unusually good looking. UH used to say, I looked I reminded him of Janet Jack's in and I believed him because his wife was the dental hygienist and she would always make a leader like it's because I trying to ruin my smile and I got those braces off and it's been cooking with fish freeze everywhere.

But yeah, but like Janet made me feel like I could do anything, like if I got like a smidgeon of Janet nous, which I was unstoppable, And to this day, anything big in my life, I'm playing Janet like walking right before I walk in need feel like that of all things. But now she's a friend, so it's a little weird. I mean, you can still gauge like an admirable distance, a distance of admiration, like, wait, what are the songs that are playing before you walk into with

high stakes situation? What's in your head? It's the one with her and Beatie Man. Um, oh my god, I just smoked at you, guys, damn it. Normally it's like all for you, but it's like it's the one where she's on the beach with Beatie Man. Yeah, yes, yes, yes, I wouldn't do that music video is absolutely iconic. That was She's so hot in her no one's worn a bra right since everything to this day, like she's everything, Like we'll be a dinner and I'm just like, come on,

it's Janet. She ordered the eggplant. Yeah, I'd like, I'd like what she's having in a very real way. I'm all of a sudden, I'm an eggplant clean and she she is a friend that reminds you to set your clocks forward or backwards, which I love that about her, honestly, Like singing in cars a theme here. This is so funny that you say Greece because I was just last night for some reason, you know, when your instinct just takes you in a weird place. It wanted me to play.

There are worst things I could do in this whole towel room, so did you as well? The way you just lurched out of your chair and there I will never turn down an opportunity to sing. There are worst things I could do. It is the song, and you know they almost cut it, Like Stockard talks about an interviews there that she begged them. She was like, please, you have to keep it in. It is the window to her soul. If you don't, if you cut that song,

like the character doesn't make sense. And honestly me as like a little kid watching it because it too was one of my favorite movies. I think I know every single line of dialogue, like we'll see, I'll test myself later.

But when she sings that song, like even as a little queer kid, like I'm watching it and I'm like the inner life being exposed, like the nuances in the performance, like that's one of those that's like if you go back in time, like give that an Oscar nomination, like Stockard chanting unforgettable in that number and throughout like truly, I mean the way she clutched those books to her, yes, she was like trying to round the corner away from the Patty Simpax and he and I said, she like

she tries to hide with her books, but like I literally will do the whole thing, like acting out with the books and a pencil skirt and like hiding behind doors again just like this all night. The books are such a part of it because even like when they did it live, like Vanessa Hudgens like had the books to the damn Sternum, like she she's protecting herself. Of course, to this day, I love Vanessa and I'll be like, please do it please. She did great. She was so

good and she's like the Yeah. So we're watching Johnet order the egg plant. We're making Vanessa's things that are worse things I can do. Does de Barge Greece and Janet Jane Tableau makes Gabrielle Union. We love it honestly, Like you know what I love is like RuPaul and RuPaul's drag Race obsessed with DeBarge, Like he keeps talking about all the kids now that are on it that are truly yeah there, but everyone every queen on that show they hired I was younger than thirty, so they're

always looking at real like like they don't know. And like the queen he said, looked like El de Bard, like Crystal looks like El de Barge. And this queen said afterwards, I didn't know what the funk rule was talking about. The entire time. I was just smiling and nodding at the Barge. That's how you got to go back to the eighties, like the eighties de Barge, you know, that's like a hate more of behaved day. Yeah, but I would go see L. I saw L right for

the pandemic. It was El de Barge, Casey and Joe Joe Sat. I feel like there's one other artists, but like those three, for those four, I should say, and got my whole life, as did everyone in the audience. Like I screamed for like throughout the whole thing all like three hours, as I who's in Miami, here we go. Yeah at university. Yeah, it was like the old school

soul or whatever. It was amazing. Do you forget like how many hits that L had solo, how many hits he had with the Bard, like Keith Sweat has bangers to this day and Cathy and Jojo, I mean what else is I mean crazy? I'll be tossing my head back to revisit myself. Wow, oh no, they were good, and you know they're fantasias cousins. Yes, And then wait then I saw something on Wikipedia earlier which I have to ask you about. Are you Sweedie's cousin know that?

Because it's like I feel like it took a turn like like to negative for her. Like people thought she was like a nepo baby, but I'm like, she's like a whole different generation. Like her dad and I are first cousins. Her grandmother is my aunt um, and me and her dad are born a day apart, and so we were kind of like raised like fiddlings um. So when Deed was when he had we called her. Our family calls her d d Um. You know, like the last I was like sort of keeping up with her.

She was like a toddler. And then all this time I moved away from home, like I go to Hollywood, and so I randomly casually asked like, oh yeah, let's look up too. I knew she was like at s C. I thought she was like looking at IBM. I had no idea, and they were like, she's doing she's like car wraps. And I was like, okay, car wraps and I'm like, kid, just send me a link. So I get the link to it was like the biggest train that she had done at that point, and it had

millions and millions and millions of views. Wait a second, and then like Icy Girl came right after, like maybe a month or two later, and we were in Miami and she was like, I'm in town, you know, let's go, let's link up. And I was like yes, And I at this point I don't even understand, like she's got a deal, she's got a whole team, Like I'm so after the fact, I'm like, so you're not at ibm um,

and you're doing okay for yourself. So I do want to make it very clear I did not help her career in any way shape or for being my relative, in no way aided or abetted her. But she's she's amazing in her own right. And she was a super amazing student, like that was her thing. Like she was very very smart and obviously very beautiful, and then she started doing correpts and now the rest is history. In a different industry too, by the way, like that's that's

not quite how nepotism usually works sometimes. Had I known, I would have been like the Mama June in her I would have tried to manage her. But I did. It was kind of after the fact, so um I did. I did definitely reach out to her, like my friends at her label that you know, perhaps run the label, and I'm like, if she a priority because she's trying to buy things, and they're like, wait, what, that's your cousin. And I'm like, yeah, like could she get like a condo?

And they're like, yes, girl, a priority. She is, She's everything, and they could not believe that she never mentioned it ever. I think I spilled the beans first, and now it's I hope it's not a major negative or a knock on her being related to me, because I'm just we're just proud of her, like I'm very yeah, well yeah.

And then when you know that, especially you being in the industry and understanding what what the entertainment industry is, seeing the darkness and like everything that comes with it, like of course us her family is going to step in and be like, I want to make sure she's being treated right, because I mean, the music industry is a whole other thing. It's a whole other animal, and you know, I only know what I know. So I'm like, I will I'm always here as a resource, um, but

what am I? And I'm fifty Like I'm like leten I worked out some choreography out of here. She I mean her her verse a Little Mix has a song called Confetti and Sweedie got on Confetti and I swear to god that song went from like an eight to a fifteen for me and then I literally I was doing a bit on this podcast stream Confetti, Stream Confetti, like best first I've heard on a pop song and like the last like four or five years. I mean,

it's iconic, right, It's iconic, iconic. Sweet. Also, when she wrote her not to drop Snal again but she wrote the RESTNL, it was like such a cool moment. It was her and seem so it was like to like Asians like on the on the bill basically and it was like, oh this is this is fun and god she was so she did tap in into um but she she just had so many good looks and it was so so so good. She's good like yeah, yeah, you know, and we're just proud, like we're just like

go ahead, girl, like and I'm like, do you need it? No, okay, yep, yeah, coverage. I always put like the help out there. I'm like, okay, yeah, it's fine. I'll just be cheering back here technology. It's fine. I'm still gonna let here we go. Yeah. So wait, because before we move on to I don't think so honey on like tennis minutes, I have to ask you, like because you really, like even just a cursory look

at like what you've done. You truly appeared in all of my favorite movies, like when I was in the late nineties, like I'm telling you love in Basketball again Stars, the way that Stars was giving bring it on and loving basketball and she's all that in rotation. So it was just and ten things I hit about you. So it was Gabrielle, Gabrielle, Gabrielle, and so I've been just such a fan for so long, but specifically about loving basketball. I wanted to ask you about like favorite memories from

that because that is such a classic. That is one of the great romance films. And now like Gina prince By popping off with the woman King, like finally like people really understanding because again, like someone can be around for so long. But it's like, how many times you have to hear this name for her to be like a list director? Like she is truly one of the greats. And I just wanted to ask about anything you remember from Love and Basketball, maybe working with Alfrey the Queen, truly,

like what did you got from Love and Basketball? Well, Luckily, from Love and Basketball I got one of my best friends in Sina Lathan. She was not friendly at the time. She was not friendly at the time. I was just, you know, I was sort of newish, you know, to the to the business, and I hadn't done a ton of movies and I had originally auditioned for Sina's role, and um, Gina was like, I don't think you're right for this, but there's another role that I think you're

you'll be perfect for. The sizes are in the lobby, you know, take all the time you need. And I get to the lobby and I'm like, because I'm in my basketball shorts, I'm giving you that I was a real I was an actual act. You were an athlete. I'm giving you my whole operation. And so I get back to the lobby and I'm like, oh, she's a hop Yeah, she's the she's the hole on the side. Yeah, my critessy is an athlete that I really am, but you could see me as a home okay, okay, So

needless to say, I got the role. Um my holenus just came out. But it's funny because later on today Gina and I are interviewing each other for a whole different amazing finally, just twenty years Why did you think I was a hume? What whole vibe was that giving off? Um? Yeah, like we we had like me and Boris Kojo were both kind of new and they had us in in Hollywood, like where you rank kind of goes by your trailer. So we had a we were sharing with I don't

remember who. The third person was a honey Wagon, which was like it's tiny, yeah, tiny little sliver, and the air conditioning wasn't working. We're working in the summer, and so we would just whoever was in the middle wasn't there that day. So we opened up all the little you know, accordion walls, and so we had a bigger room and we left the doors open. We'd literally sit on our steps and and that's how we became close friends. Um, so I made really great friends on this movie. Omar

and I are great friends. Um, but a lot of that happened later because Sanah and Omar were an actual real couple. Yet, yeah, they were an actual real couple. Um. So he Omar didn't like, you know, or didn't really mess with Boris and Sna was really not messing with me.

So because the roles we were sort of playing. And then cut to later, I'm in Miami filming Bad Voice for six months and she's in Miami staying at the same hotel filming at a time, and she sees me in the lobby and I see her and I'm like, fun this book and so I'm giving her dust and she's like, no, be does that whole time. But yeah, we bonded, and you know, she apologized and gave me her feel of her process, and yeah, we've been best season since. I love it. Oh man, I I just

rewatched it again because I've covered it. I have this other podcast for HBO Max and I it's on their list. You can stream it on HBO Max people. But we went into it like it holds up so well and it gives you all those good nostalgic feelings and that's one. I mean talk about iconic moments like that song full of Me at the end when they when they play each other. I mean, that is for all time. That

that is for all time. That movie incredible because it also has that di'angelo song, but that one that's so good in it, Like Regina Hall in it, Harry Lennox was in it, Like there were so many people that were that We're in it. Tyra was in it right, and everyone stuck to you know what I mean, like everyone's still working and doing great. We're still chugging away. Wait,

you've mentioned Miami a couple of times. I wanted to ask, because Matt and I are going to Miami for New Year's what is like the vibe now for when you guys go, like, what what's on the docket? Is there one? Are you guys just like chilling? For the most part, it's Miami, Like it's most when it's at dinner. Where are we going? Probably Carbone? But it's different, like Miami changed a lot during the pendem it felt very republican. Um, it felt very it felt very jed Um and all

their friends brought up all of the beach. Everyone in left New York during the pandemic overpaid. Uh you know, moved down and the vibe is a little depending on where you go, the vibe is a little different. Um. I mean they you can't say gay um, like you can't teach history like you like, it's a whole weird vibe. Um. But in terms of fun, uh yeah, I mean people

go to just kind of lose themselves. So I hope you all'll be getting lost boat have a boat day, yes, like that would like the boat, get those pictures on the yacht, like like it's like a small yacht, it's like a book little boat. And we also have a friend that's like a reservation queen. Yes, so it's like

we're covered on the reservations and stuff. So it's good to have always roll with someone in the crew that's like he says, his gay powers reservations because it's like New Year's is it's a big holiday for us down there. So make sure you get your rooms, your O, B and d s because we're good. Yeah, we have to go to Idom thinks to hunt. And something you just

said made me realize what I'm gonna do. So this is I don't think so honey, This is our one minute segment where we drag something in pop culture that needs to be absolutely fucking dragged. Bow and I do have something. You'll watch us, and then I know you're gonna have one Gabrielle union. So this is I don't think it's Honey Boone and I'm ready to go. This is Matt Rogers. I don't think the Wings time starts now.

I don't think so Honey Avanca being like, I'm actually stepping away from politics this time, bitch, We're already good on you, and don't even think about moving back to New York. If you want to be shown every damn door in your face, stay down in Florida. So when we cut it off and let it float away, you can be on it. I can't stand Ivanka Trump. There's not a single like bone in my body that's even close. And when I saw you make this statement, I was like,

what is she trying to do? Now? So it's like, who even needs to hear from you? I have not turned my head to this Trump announcement. Maybe I should, because I guess we should quote unquote be prepared for whatever is happening. But whatever Ivanka and Jared are thinking you're gonna is gonna happen now? No, the answer is no. The answer is a capital and capital. Oh, we're done. I don't think so, honey, iv Anka, You're not going

to become friends with Chelsea Clinton again. I understand, like it's been a quote unquote hard year, but no, no sympathy for you, Ivanka, No sympathy for you. Jared. We're taking back the name Jared. I have people in my life that I love that are called Jared, and I I'm taking it back. Ivanka. You can stay gone. I don't think so, honey. And that's one minute. Wow, that

was dense. She really tried something with that statement of I will be stepping out of the political sphere and almost like this little hint of like and you're welcome, and like hint hint, Maybe I don't sup. We don't care, we don't care. What if they say that he made like what a one point nine billion during his presidency? Disgusting girl. Your hands are dirty, okay, so Bo and Yang, this is your I don't think so, honey. And your

time starts now. I don't think so hony. Herbal cigarettes on film sets, I saw Gabriel Union smoke one in the movie The Inspection, and I went, I know she is not enjoying that because they taste somehow worse than cigarettes. And I get that there are laws in place and people do get bothered by the second hand smoke. But on a sensory level, the herbal cigarettes are just worse. And I don't even know if they're that even even that much healthier for you. There's no like tar and

like the arsenic or anything, I guess. But also it just doesn't feel. It does not do the body good to even inhale a little vapor molecule of the stuff. It smells bad. It clings worse than glitter somehow. It just stays on you for days and days, and I cling and clings worse than glitter, and not that many things cling worse than glitter. I do not wish sigarettes on any actors, any proper person, on anyone on any film set. I don't think so any herbal cigarettes in film.

And that's one minute you don't realize how harsh they are. I had to do it, and I love that for you. When my character was smoking weed and it was the herbs, and it is harsh, and I was changing smoking. Well, I have an actual allergy to the chemicals that are exhaled. It may like fries, so I'm immediately congested. I can't breathe like and it gives me like bronchitis for like months at a time. So I tried, definitely try to

like stay away from cigarettes. I don't have like a philosophical opposition to like cigarettes, but like just you know, go over there. Um okay, um wait, so wait, what's the catchphrase? So you say, I don't think so honey the thing and then if you can repeat the phrase, I don't think so high, don't think so honey. Okay, and this is your time, it starts now, I don't think so honey. You have food restrictions on Thanksgiving, Listen, there will be a turkey, there will be a handy camp.

I don't care that you can't have gluten or dairy or peanuts or whatever. Don't come into a black home talking about food restrictions or allergies or sensitivities. You're gonna get all of these things, and no one is going to care about whether or not your plate as full, um have the salads has gluten? Who cares? Okay, we don't care. Let me tell you right now, we don't care about your food restrictions, your dietary restrictions, things that you were just opposed to. Pork, Oh, the pork, the

pork industry. You know who doesn't care all of us, all of us that we eat um, So listen, thank you for coming. You tried it. Eat this candy tam um five by incredible. It's called tupperware. Fill it up with whatever you got. You can heat it up over there in the microwaves or bring your own ship to Thanksgiving. I don't want to give of your your dietary restrictions because you know who's not paying attention are getting well? Like I'm technically gluten free, dairy free, but not on Thanksgiving?

Why would I even do that? Why would I do that? As on Thankgiving? And the glutenous the inflammation, you don't who who wants to hear about inflammation around the holidays? No one, No one cares about like the rest of us. Yeah, period, it's it's actually it's a season for eating, but it's also a season for shifting and bowen. That's really culture number it's and it's also a season for susse probiotics, you guys. Yeah, And with that, I encourage everyone I

know Bowen does to go see the inspection. Will be wide release when this episode comes out. Gabrielle Union, I mean, this was such a pleasure. It was so nice to talk to you. This was a lot of fun, and we truly stand as the kids. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. I've had the best time. You're the best bow We'll catch up in the stack. But all right, everybody, Oh, I see it. She really had

to go bo. So I was like, we I don't think we can sing at her right now and get the woman is on a press tour for two projects and she is a champion for it. Truly, this is even one is as as you all know, this is the year where everyone as a culture understood that press tours are nuts. So like, I got it this year have never had before I'm saying. I mean, like I think in a post Gaga world, we understand press tours to be one thing like oh at least to get

like these fun moments. But now post House of Gucci and post don't worry about everyone's just like the glut of it is a lot. So anyway, all our sympathies. We need to do a movie called press Tour. You and I need to do a movie called press Tour. Oh my god, one fun wow, wow wow. Look at Christopher guest style, like, well, I guess that's that's for your consideration. But we can we can find it, can

find it. Take. We're gonna go do that now. We hope you'll have an excellent excellent Well let's just say day, day and maybe night. Yeah, and we and every episode a bow with this song. And it's Christmas time yourself maryss to my own fake Christmas now screaming, now please dream? Have you heard of Christmas? Okay, so the star turn for my star turning. I love bathroom acting. It's my favorite spoiler alert? Did you like acting with me in the bathroom? And did you catch my reference to Lady

Gaga on the Stars Born? When I screamed? Not only did I catch the reference, I saw you talk to Drone director, Drone Iconic director and say, well, this is the Star is Born movement. And so I was. I was there, I witnessed the whole process of it, and I was so privileged. I I did think that day.

I was like, oh, this is so fun, Like I get to act alongside man even you know what my favorite thing is when it's with someone you like the time in between setups, the time in between roles where you're just like two real people the goose but it's like your two real people and this like fake environment. But then the time just goes flying by when it's like you're with your best buddy, And I was like,

this is fun. Honestly, I thought to myself, I need to get on the Matt Rodgers Bow and Yang projects that like are in my head because like this is like, this is the reason for the season. It was the reason for the season, not just Christmas season, but every season with my girl, with my garl. Okay, so now let's close out again this episode. Here we go, Okay, have yourself, have yourself us, make them you tie gat mm hmmmm. And the rest is a standard. You can

listen to any of the girls sing up. They all cover to come on, bye Bye