"Being Gay Is A Complicated Job" (w/ Ryan O'Connell)

all of it. I don't know about you. I always have this latent period of like processing, like what the hell I just experienced? And I feel like I'm still I think it'll be like another five years before, right, I think. I think my latent superior is five years. Now. I'll go through something, but it'll take me five years to get clarity on what you are. You are a processor. You are a slow processor, and I don't that's not a no. I think it's that it's not functional. You

cannot move through life this way. It's so awful, honey, better to be going on. Better to be a slow processor than someone that's like, I know how I feel about this, which is often me. And that's a rule. Of culture. And that's a rule of culture, honey, someone who's like, that's how I feel. But I often I like, for example, I'm a slow actor, not a slow processor.

I process information very quickly. Like for example, I've known I needed a new shower curtain for about a year, but it was only today that I went out and acted on that. Oh thank god, But how much can I ask? How much like mold like stuff was on the old shower curtain. So I bought what was on one side of blue and on the other side white shower curtain. The bottom of the shower curtain was m let's call it like after make up a new color. I'm calling it after a night out piss yellow, sort

of like a chock full. I realized I could never have another man over to my apartment. Like with with this being the situation, it was humiliating. I felt like I was straight or something. The bottom of the show the shower curtain was not after a night out piss yellow, And I went to the bed, bath and beyond and got a new shower curtain. At some point, like this will bleed over into other areas of my life, like I'll finally put the license plates on my car. They've

also been there for a year. I just can't seem to get the screwdriver out to do that. Slow processing versus slow acting rather be I thought you meant you were a slow film actor. I say, honey, I've seen you speak fast. Well, you know, so when you act on film, and this is for everyone out there listening, when you act on film, really bite those consonants, okay, because you want to give realism, but you also want

clarity and diction and dexterity. So when you're auditioning out there, when you're presending your tapes, make to war that we're we're definitely keeping the energy and the pacing up, but we are giving consonants. What did I do to die today? At a minute? Or two till two? Go through your warmups, honey, go through the warmups. You know bo and Yanks process. He's a big repeater. I am a repetition is the key to learning. It's actually not it's actually not repetition.

It's not pure not to Oh my god, this is so annoying. It's not actual repetition. But I did help Sandy Bullock learn like get off book on set because she was sucking up a line and bowen help me, and I was like, okay, you just have to like keep repeating the connective tissue, so like in a line like more like most commonly it's like you like repeat like the words before and after a comma or like colon or something, and then that's so then you build the bridge in your mind to give into the next

part of your line. So what you're saying is you were sort of Sandra bull was giving. I was being I was giving Sandra Bullocks acting teacher on set, and it was it was not unwelcome because I was like, I'm so sorry I was. I was like, I was like, I think I might have something that can help. She's like please, because she had to say like a fictional made up like proper down and it was like ninety

syllables long. And I was like, okay, I think you just got to repeat these syllables and then THEE syllables and then thee syllables, and she was like, okay, okay, okay, guess what it worked. It worked. The first thing she said to me on the carpet of the premiere was tabakgadema fiskin now or whatever the hell the line was I forgot it, but she didn't because of me. And that's why I take the credit the film, which of course is titled The Road to El Dorado. Yes, what

was the Atlantests. That's why, of course that film was so successful, because she had you on hand to to sort of walk her through it. And you can watch that movie on planes everywhere now Amount plus everywhere. Now it's on Paramount Plus. It's on planes. You can check out the Lost City small TV near you. Um so we we have an actor in the chat I mean nominated. Okay, he doesn't mean he certainly doesn't need you to run through getting a single now or tipped. Can't be bothered,

can't be fucking bothered. But who are you I mean, I I mean nominee yourself. I'm so sick, especially after this last week with put On that I'm the out of now two weeks in a row to be the only non emy nominee. I think it sucks. You're you're going to get it. But this is such an it's an inevitability at this point for me to I mean nominated. Yeah, it really is. This is my this is my for your consideration, begging on my own podcasts, the members of the TV Academy, that's what That's why f I C.

Is it such a filthy business? Don't you think? So dirty and disgusting and political? What we all do to sort of get the crumbs? Say that I said it? I know, well listen, listen, see this in my hands. This is the new novel by Ryan O'Connell, our guest. It's called Just by looking at him, I am thoroughly enjoying this. It's a hot cover. Can I say something didn't didn't get my copy? What didn't get Oh my god?

The publicists are and I'm not talking to you are readers the public and you know that I read the galleys and I read the advanced copies for every single guest and for I'm mortified that this is someone who's writing. I've been following since and I'm going to say the words, and I'm sorry if this solicits anything, but since the Thought Catalog days, I was reading every single one of

our guests posts. And we don't have to talk about it, but I am a devout acolyte of the guest and this is actually, this is actually some pre I don't think so many raged for you, I did it. I activate I didn't get the copy, but you know, I'm reading it pool side this summer. Well, speaking of sort of by the water you were, you were mentioning the cover. Describe how hot the cover is. It's really hot cover. You've got like sort of like a glistened back. I

love backs, some of the hottest body parts. Give it up for back? Well, did I did? You? I've told you about the first time I ever really the moment I realized that was gay, right, Who's back was it? It was this kid, this neighborhood boy. His name was Matt Ripple. Ripple very much rhymes with the nipple, and he came over to my house. I was eleven years old, and we were playing in my pool, and later that night I thought of his back and in an instant realized I wanted to like fuck his back. And I

realized in that moment I was gay. So backs are that's are very sexual important. And I think that our guests sort of knew that by putting this very evocative back on the cover of his debut novel, So Wow, give it up. The novelist, writer, creator, creator of the iconic show special we had put on on last week. Now we have the star of special STARRT. Sorry, but you were build number two, and that happens in Hollywood sometimes. Oh, I don't know what. I don't know what it's like

to be number one on the call sheet. That's something I'll never knew. But when you know that's not true, I don't. It's not a guarantee for right. You know what's going to happen when we eventually get our film off the ground. It's going to be number one. It's gonna be alphabetical. It's gonna be alphabet It's not gonna be alphabetical. I'm so excited to read it over the summer that it's the perfect summer read. You really are gonna like it. I mean, it's The book has dragged

me several times. And I don't mean me personally. I mean me sort of as a person. The book drags people that stand Kyle Richards it is. He calls it a mark of basicness. Um. The book drags people who mostly have West Elm furniture. I really took that one as well. Um, you know, but the book is um like the Beach House episode of Girls. A work of art, which is a line on page one of this book, which I read the Beach House episode of Girls. When I read it to you, I'm gonna read it. Oh

my god. You know what I wanted to say to one of my co workers this week. I won't say who, but no, no, it was this, well, you think I want to be like you? Like mentally ill like you like mentally? Still so good, such a good line. Reading this is the read it. Okay, So they're talking about a man's penis, and the quote is that it's like the Beach House episode of Girls, a work of art, and I mean, you're hooked, You're hooked. And that's page one.

I'm even. I didn't think I could get more angry that I don't have the I don't have the hard copy in my hands. Well, everybody who announced that Ryan's publicist is fired, fired, And we're also here to say June seventh is when the book comes out, and two days later, two days later, it's too fucking much. Queer as Folk the revival comes out. This trailer I did, I was, I was then was glued. I didn't need the trailer to be in but I was like, well fuck, And I asked him about his June, and he said,

mute me on Instagram, and I will relate. No, everyone better mute me on Instagram in June. We have a lot of annoying ship coming up. Um, but listen, this is a true honor. And I think, like sort of, it's it's it's really been time to have him about. It's been time. It's been time. We've we've we've all admired each other from afar or from up close at the same pool parties. Just by looking at him, just by looking at him, everyone, please welcome into your ears.

Why that was absolute hell having first of all, you sent me on a fucking journey. First of all, my first thought was like, wow, I wonder if things have changed since they both become famous. And then all of a sudden it was like, anyways, Sandy, sorry Sandy. I like, okay, that's librating, okay, well whatever, I'm like, things have shifted, things have shifted. And then all of a sudden, going how the words thought catalog, I was like, um, um,

go back to your roots. We all have origins, Ryan, we do, we do, and mine are just very pub lock. But you know, it is what it is, Katie, It

is what it is. But I feel like you were one of those first people and you've since transcended this sort of like type of existence, but like you were one of those Internet people who were like speaking to like a very queer like readership in an audience, and like when when not a lot of when not a lot of people were doing that, when it was like, oh, Richard Lawson is going to write like a goodbye post on Gawker as fucking Tensley Mortimer, and like that's like

the best we're ever going to get. But then but then Whyann O'Connell comes along and we're like, oh my god, this fucking idiot is ranking all the tracks on Blackout, Like hell, yes, that was a huge moment for me. Ryan, I gotta say, when I was working my shitty day job in college, I was like reading I was reading Thought Catalog every day and being like this guy gets it well. It was like a hipster sweatshop. It was like I had to write that. I had to like

quite like three posts today. It was like I truly was. It was. It was a time. It was a lot of It was a lot of pills, It was a lot of stuff, and it was a lot of feelings and um, yeah, you know, I looked back at old me and I'm like, wow, she's got she got she's got balls, just put it in like she got something

to say, you know what I mean. And it was this bizarre micro fame of like if I went to Metropolitan, I was like literally Brandelina, like like literally for like for for seven months, I was like brand Alina of Metropolitan. And then that was it. That's your that that's a twenty four year olds dream though. Oh that kind of yeah, yeah, it's all I wanted. But I couldn't get laid to save my life. But I tried, like like you know, i'd have like you know, like readers of thought kind

of come up to me. But it was I couldn't. I couldn't land the plane. Day, I couldn't land the plane. Oh this is this is basically my reality now, which is so refreshing to hear. I mean, it's it's nice to hear that you and you, as a twenty four year old we're experiencing things Matt and I experienced now well selfloading Trump's microphane yea yeah, you I mean Mann Man, I like talk all the time about like, oh gosh, like do we how much do we identify with like

ourselves back then? But I feel like maybe all three of us have, like for the best, really moved past those people, like like like become different people. I will. You know What's funny like a comment that I often get like from people that that listen to this podcast are like, you, like, we still love the pod, but you guys don't really go there like you used to. And I'm like, what like ripping Anna Kendrick Limb from Limb publicly? No, we can't really do that, like you

know what I mean. Like, it's like and sometimes I do think about because Bone and I rode for Vulture. I mean, like we we did the ranking things like one time. One of the one of the most iconic things about when that we did was what did we rank every drag race runway? Look? I think we did, which which we had no business doing. We ranked every

snatch game and every runway look. And now it's like we look back and it's like, yeah, that was too That was to get that was to make seven hundred dollars each, but we had to That's actually a lot. It was way more. It was way more than we had been getting. Yeah, but you do what you have to do. You comment as as like a niche gay um internet person, which I mean, we all know what

it's like. But when they when they're going to pay you money, and it's like, I don't have to wait, you know, an extra day of tables that time, like I'll go online and be a little snarky internet gay like you know I have I have the ability to do it, and they're gonna give me a hundred bucks

right this drag race recap, So why not? Absolutely mean, it was also a different time online, like I was I was writing for thought kind of like from like two ten twelve, Like it just wasn't like it's like when people like went on Twitter to like l L get a job writing comedy. Like it was like, like you know, it was like the it was a much it was a much easy. Yeah. It was like it was like when you couldn't do it like a viral joke account and like like literally get a back deal

from like literally being like blah blah blah things. Um, So it was like very like, oh, wasn't it so sweet and innocent back then? You know what I mean? It was an easier time you know what I mean. I mean people still came from me, like Gawker used to write posts like literally ripping me a new asshole like every single day. But um, I love that. You loved that, you loved that. We just we pissed. We pissed someone off. Recently, Matt on the Three Songs So

and Three Songs with a Great Global song book. We we we meet me at our spot was somewhere in there, and we said meet me at a spot by Willow and some guy named Tyler, and then Tyler Cole himself commented on my grid post at least thanks for the disrespect. Well listen, and I was like, I'm not engage in this, Like this is like you know, like he has like one of the biggest songs in the last like two years. He's fine. He doesn't need me to like acknowledge his

existence whatever. What I was just like, oh, but people still get. That's the thing is, it's like this thing of like this you. I think the three of us know we are not to be taken seriously, and so when people do, it's like, honey, that's your fault. You went ahead and lived life and decided to take me. Matt Roger seriously, and that's a that's that you need, you know, to invoke to the words of another podcast,

seek treatment. I mean, like, if you take anything I ever do or say seriously, it's a huge problem that you have. Seriously. Well, what I dragged people? I take it very seriously. Oh the person you like genuinely dragged? Yeah, who's the last person you're like, like openly, Yeah, who

do you hate? Guess is it is theory hashet here? Well? No, I mean I feel like I feel like I'm pretty open about who I just like the Housewives, the Bravo people, which is like kind of like whatever, But I also feel like, but I also feel like in that space like going I'm going on watch what Happens Live like next month, and it's like this interesting space where like you can drag, but you can't like totally drag. So

it's as actually both know in different forms. Yeah yeah, so honey, it's giving tight rope, it's giving tight rope walk you know. So it's a little like so that's

a little tricky dickie. But um, I don't know. I can't be tamed, honestly, Like I got a mouth, and like I the more I mean, the more famous people I meet, the more I'm convinced that everyone is truly mentally ill, and I get more annoyed by everybody things psychotic, and I don't feel like I want to hold back from any of that, because I also feel like putting famous people in a pedestals deeply wrong, because if anyone met anyone for five minutes, they would want to run

away screaming if they're emotionally health You know what I mean, right right? I hope you don't take me um coaching Sandra Bulk through a line as psycho sas No, that was like, you like, we're on set, yeah, but sometimes on set. Sometimes sometimes you're on set. Even the most famous iconic actresses in the world don't know they're fucking lines and it's happening right now tonight in Hollywood tonight,

somewhere in Hollywood. So somewhere tonight, Julia Roberts is turning to her left being like what is it, and over prepared little fag is like, it's this. Oh my god. I'mvent Julia Roberts once when I was twelve years old. Um, you know, Aaron Brockovich, not to brag, you know that house that she lived in that had rodents and iconic bad house. Yeah, she was deeply poor. That was my next door neighbor. You were you were an aaron at Carthon. Well, no,

I mean actually sorry, I was behind the house. I'm so sorry. I was when we got when we got when we got the notice, my my heart felt, my asshole, and I literally picked my mom and I said, mom, oh, no, is she pour in the movie? Because we were so me like I was a Connie, like if Hollywood was gonna come here, it's not to like you know, it's not for clips and glass, you know what you mean. And then your mom's your mom dropped all the plates

in her kitchen and said who lives like this like this? No, that was my That was my twelve girl dramatic ass. After I saw Black Bets in the theater's opening night, I was like, Mom, arank you, Julia, Julia rescue me. And I got her autographed by she autographed my US Weekly that she was on the cover up. Yeah, while she was on location on set as it were, absolutely honey,

she was on set, honey. She was like, I hope that I hope the literal like like like lying on the cover was like which one of Julia Roberts's tits or aliens, like you US Weekly became like truly trash like that time, but there was a time when it was respectable and it's kind of around that time that was okay, so that's so amazing that you actually that's a really important thing. It was still respectable, so she was it was like the last dregs of the respectability era.

And I think it became quickly US Weekly after she wrapped, after she wrapped up, but she was there for like two weeks bad. I mean, it was like real, like Julia was in the neighborhood and she was giving that miss witch Tom monologue like yards away from you, Oh yeah, of course, are you kidding me? And they're called boots. Actually that was probably no, that was that was somewhere else, but yes, of course there was so much going on. I love that movie. I mean, that's one of the

movies endlessly quotable. It's incredible. It's I always cry when she like where does she go to? She goes to a car, No, she goes to like Mark. It's when she gives the settlement to like either Marge or Cherry Joe. It's it's Mark. It's Mark Hellgenburger. It's when she's they say how much. She says how much money is going to her family out of this settlement, and Mark goes,

I don't even know how much money that is? Yes, but it's also but it's also isn't it doesn't Cherry at some point go like, we're gonna get the man, right, We're gonna go that's Mark, That's that's Cherry. She's kind of stoic the whole movie. Cherry doesn't really have Yeah, doesn't much emotion. Yeah, Cherry is the one that she has to convince, and she's not budget Yeah, right right, What the hell is her name in the movie? Um, Pamela Duncan wouldn't even get on the phone with me.

Pamela dunk Honey, you better name your character. This is this is a huge note to all. I know there's a lot of actors or something, but there's also a lot of screenwriters listening, and so what I want to tell them is it's rule of culture two. You better your cha character, especially something like Pamela Duncan, Miss Pamela Duncan, who's a tough bitch because she's been sick for a while, and so of her kids. I can't come up with names. I'm like, that's literally, I truly like black out and

I've never heard a name of my hard. It's so hard. It's so hard. I can't come up with a real sounding name. Like all my names are like like all my names are like Pamela Guna or like you know, like Mariah Tooch. The reality is real, real names are stranger. They almost sound like Matt Ripple. That's a fake name. That's like four mean but like, but the real names are actually like you what, I believe that you write it and be like this is an exact actually yeah, okay.

Can I say some thing about the book? Though, he does drag people who name their dogs human names, and that is very much a direct drag on Jared Freeder. Wait, what are you talking? Oh Jane? No, Jane, No, Jane is so cute. Jane's acute name. There are certain names that are real that have versatility. Jane is verse, Okay, can be a dog, can be a human? Stop. Scott is like a no, Scott can't be a dog. No. And then I think in the book, I named the

Monica name is Monica. I think I actually think Monica's verse. No, it's not Monica. Ashley is not verse. You can't name a dog Ashley. I think you could. That's psychotic like Ashley. You can't be like Monica. And also what I love is the character in the book who's named his dog Monica is like a showrunner head writer of a TV show, and it's so like, my favorite character on Friends is Monica, and that's why I an my dog that the dog's

fucking old. But you know, or maybe it's even lamur to have named the dog Monica after Monica from Friends in like two thousand nineteen. Yeah, honey, have you ever worked on a multi caam? I haven't had the pleasure. I guess Bowen sort of does. Is basically multi yea rule of culture. It's oh my god, a picture just fell off my wall, and you know who that is, Laura. Oh my god, Lauren. A photo of me from How You Heard of Christmas just fell off the wall and

plummeted to the ground and it was the spirit of Lauren. No, that's Chuck Laurie. That's Chuck Laurie. He's like, he's like, don't you dare coming to mind. Both these men still alive. By the way, Oh my god, I know we'll chuck. Laurie is gonna be like weakened up Bernie's at some point you're gonna like exhume his body from Definitely. Definitely. Let's just say I definitely love the book. Um and it's it's really is so great and like, you know what I love about this and bone we were saying

short chapters, Yes, oh I love them. I'm so horny for a short chap, like think about like think about less than zero, think about play it as it lays, like, there's there's a lot. I love a short chap. But also the way that happened wasn't even like by design. I didn't even try to write a novel. It was just like special at just shutdown. We were in quarantine.

It was like April I realized that the world that we were living in was hell, and I was like, okay, like, why don't I build myself a new world that I can get lost in it for you like a couple of hours a day? And then so I just wrote a thousand words a day and I thought, oh, surely

this will run out of steam. Like I don't. This is just like it was like a choose your own adventure, and so I would just right, yeah, I would write a thousand words a day and and I feel like I was going to hit a wall but then I just gotta dot never did. So I feel like the short chaps were just how I wrote it once a day basically. Wow. I mean, isn't that like the the ideal creative scenario where you just like are plopping clay on the table over time and then by the end

you're like, oh, I have a novel. I'm so fucking spooked because the experience was so tbh gorgeous. And I feel like whenever you're supposed to talk about novels were like, oh years suffering pain, Well, people can't stop talking about how hard it is. I'm like, shut up, like, I'm sure it's hard. I'm sure I don't want to hear

about how hard your process was. Like there are some literal books and I'm don't name names because I literally can't, but someone's autobiography it literally starts continues to be about an to write the book, and I'm like, shut up, mama, stop tell your funny stories and let's go Wait I feel like I know what you're talking about. Here, bleep this out. Oh god, that went a deep cut that came out like years ago, and you could tell that was like held together by silly string up. Someone had

a deal. Let's just say that. I know. I also love like when they're like I just like I had to write this book and you're like, no, you actually didn't, and you have so much money, so like why did you need this? And by the way, even like a lot of money in book, it's still like not a lot of money, so it's sort of like why did

you do this? Like so confused? Life changing? It's life changing, fund like truly, like I'm sorry, Like like I'm sorry, we're so miserable, Like you could have just literally sat this one out and still been insanely rich. Like how much money does one person need? You know? I think that answer is going to scare a lot of people,

you know what I mean? Like how much? How much money? Well, I think being around really wealthy people, like the furnace gets bigger and bigger, you have to feed the furnace, and all of a sudden, you can't imagine living life for under twenty grand a month and you're just like wait, like a like, and it's that's when it gets a little spooky spaghetti dear what I mean, I'm I'm very close to like pumping the brakes, or just like looking through the books and being like to like slow my burn, honey,

closed the book. Close, Honey, that book is haunted. Close it close it closes. I don't know, I think like thinking the book is haunted is gonna like ruin my life if I keep thinking the book is haunted and I should just get over my fear and just like

do it. It's like it's like right, it's like starting an email that you like are dreading writing, or it's like every Saturday, like I like, I try to watch the rehearsal tapes from the week, and then I always dread doing it, but then I watch it and then it's fine, and I feel like it's that similar thing of like, oh, I don't want to do this, but I know I have to or I should. No. No, mine is never fun with us. All about relatability. Um no, it's all about being salt of the earth. Oh No,

mine is never good. It's never like I have never opened my becoming like, oh my god, there's more than I like, Wow, I've actually not been so bad. It's always like you must be joking, And it's because I yeah, like I'm like an uper SUV, like honey again, like are you okay? Like literally are you okay? But like I need to be like if I'm going to the West Side, I need to be swaddled in comfort, like I need to like you know what I mean, like if it's a long distance I mean I don't know,

is this like that? And no, that is the one thing now now that I have, now that I'm a gay man with with and who will have no children partner, and I have play money. What I have been blowing in on is the the extra big lift and like it's it's it's if you guys don't need to do but you know what we do? We do? We do? We do? We do? We do? I mean hello, like to have control over the music, I mean profound, like literally being like, oh, can we do the Bluetooth hook up?

I mean, are you kidding me? Gordon? I can't stress enough how important it is in l A to be able to choose the words quiet ride because these girls really in to talk. They're so into talking, and you really get the craziest people in l A. I'm so sorry when you have like a regular lift, the regular lift drivers some of them and Bowen, you remember this. Do you remember when we were in l A. That crazy woman who drove us up a hill? You remember

that crazy behind me? It was in Silver Lake. I think we're going to like Billy's Billy's house, and and we were being driven by this woman who was talking about how she wanted to make lift more of an experience. She was like, I want to do lift, but it's also a hotel. She she was literally like she was running the show we got in. I don't think we said a word. She was like, hey, my name is so and so, and I want us to be the best experience possible. In fact, I have a lot of

plans for my future. I want to open a lift where I don't leave you a lot of the entire timere in l A. And it was just like, I'm sorry, but if I can throw some money at this problem getting a lift, I've chosen the words quiet ride you in l A. You must And I if it's if it's that shitty thing that I'm spending expendable income on. Then that's that, so be it. It's really don't get the SUVs, don't get the why bo. I'm right here, Okay,

I'm right here. All I say is that last night I had to go to Venice to eat vegan food. It's like the gay draft. You after do it once a year and like your name gets called, you have to go to Vesta vegan food, and and I was like, I'm so profoundly unsoothed by eating, like having this moment that I need to get into an uber. I need to play protection by massive attack and I need to literally doom my way home. Do you know what I mean. It's like that's literally what I need and maybe some

sneaker pimps to do you know what I mean. Like that's just sort of my vibe. And it was it was honestly like hashtag recommended. It was amazing. Listen, Okay, all right, it sort of is I mean, not attack, I rise up. And also I mean especially to and from airport. Get me, give me a boat, get me in another plane to my house. Yeah, because those are the only ones to pick you up at the l a X airport. Now, well, you just have to get

a car service. But you have to get like call ahead and have someone you know what I mean, that's well, I don't know that that might be a step too far for me. Listen to you. You're like, you're like this, I'm really I'm a bad influenced baby. Don't stick with me, don't You'll be filing for bankruptcy and about like two months. It's honestly, it's not okay. Wait are you just go bo? I was gonna ask, is this your Did you pick out the gorgeous ball paper behind you? Um? No, it

came with the house. But but we did it. We did, we did. We did install our own town of Finland wallpaper into the bathroom because we want to love you know. So it's like guys getting dpid while you p and I just felt like very appropriate. It was just like a way to let the neighborhood know that like Gates had moved in, the kids are dead, like, let to move on. What I mean, You're inviting everyone from the neighborhood to the bathroom. Oh absolutely, it's the only way.

It's the only way to know how to get to know people. Wait, are you up to date on Beverly Hills? Have you watched the first two I've seen, Yes, Yes, I have, Yes, I have. Yeah, it's it's so the first episode was so heavy, obviously, Um, Sutton's reaction was absolutely bone chilling. Um, absolutely bone chilling, Like it's truly like. And then when she doubled down on it, I mean, by the way talk about I mean, by the way you mentioned me dragging Kyle Richards. But have you gotten

to the amendum about Kyl Richards? No? Not yet. Oh okay, So I revised my opinion about her and k Yes, and I say that she is she is kind of basic, but she's an excellent producer, and she provides access to Kim Richards and Kathy Hillton, which are national treasures. So the thing with Kyle is that, honey, she's producing, she's going to work, honey, She's pounding the and and she's very savvy and she knows exactly how people are coming off.

So when when Sutton her had the meat and Great where she was basically like, I'm going to give you the space to apologize for being a true sociopath yesterday, and then like you know, Sutton double triples down on having a bad day. Then you can see Kyle being like, oh honey, like you're not doing this correctly? Do what I mean? She's very no, which was what makes her a very good audience surrogate is that she knows what is being perceived, how things are going to come off. Absolutely.

But it's like and like Lisa Ren is giving a I Cyborg this season. She was getting I II Cyborg last season, but now it's really giving a I. It's like I I truly like her soul has left the building. It's just a lot of it's a lot of screens. It's all of yes, girl like that. It's literally like a robot. Like I'm like literally like hot, like are

you okay? So you know, look, I'm stunned that we could be here in this place talking about Beverly Hills because there was such a profound nose dive in quality for about four or five seasons, and because I'm deeply unwell, and We'll stick through these girls through anything, including Lucy Lucy Apple juice. We have suffered so much collectively, they put up, they put us through hell, and we are finally being rewarded, which I which I love. But holy shit, did we have to wait? Did we have to wait

the you know what? I love what what? We'll talking about Kyle? Like? What? What? What? The My favorite thing about Kyle is she is the best. It's exactly what Bone said. She is the best housewife at being us, like she's all of us right now. Is very Kyle Richard's vibes. She can cry because someone is even feeling a little bit sad. She is extremely sympathetic, and she's very good at least portraying empathy. And she is the

bleeding heart of the show. But the thing with her is, and it's it's sort of what Dorrit is not very good at. It always feels natural, Whereas with Dorite, I think even though she's gone through an extreme trauma, she could not hide the fact that. And I'm sorry for people that disagree, I'm sorry, but in that scene where she's telling Mauricio and the girls what happened to her, there is a little glimmer of glee in her eye because she knows she is holding the center diamonds and

no one will be able to touch the storyline. And it's dark, but it's it's it, And you guys agree with me, Mad I'm getting full body chills because I also felt that way, but then I felt so bad for thinking that way because I, like, you know, reality shows have really kind of like done a number on me, like I believe, you know, in terms of like benefit of the doubt. I feel like everyone's just a human

garbage can after watching them. So when when Derrie was when I saw the glimmer, When I saw that glimmer, I was like, Okay, Ryan, you're just you just you need to have some faith, like you know what I mean, like she this is crazy, but I saw it and I just think, you know, wow, it was I'm saying it out loud, it was intense. But when did you

see it? I did, And I'm just thinking I've always thought about this for all reality shows, like even like ninety Day where it's like you see the fucking you see the lighting rigs like in the shot, like you like really concern itself with like faking it that it's like an authentic moment because sometimes that sometimes Housewives does that.

But I go, something in your brain has to like a small half lobe in your brain has to like die for you to like be able to live your life out while cameras are rolling in lights are like blasting in your face that like you were only thinking head too, like the tableau and the title sequence, like where am I landing in the do I get to

her diamond? Like I think, like I think you guys are right, I just don't necessarily blame don't either, And then and I do want to stress like what happened to her is traumatic and I think and I think it's really I think it really happened to her. Let some people are getting targets with me saying I don't think it happened. That is really dark to say I don't think. But here's what I'm saying. I'm commenting not

on Deret. I'm commenting on the fact that it was like involuntary, and that is something that is that I

would think about all of the housewives. The only person who I think it looked like abject was having a bad time with their shitty storyline recently has been Erica, because I think that you know her entire image, what was at stake, like what happened, and it was happening to her, and what happened to Doret had happened to her, so whether it was like part of her process, so whatever, moving forward, I and obviously she was incredibly upset and

disturbed and traumatized. And I'm sure we'll see you in future episodes. I just think that when there are cameras on you in that scenario, and and and what that, what you were all trying to do is stay on the show. No, you're not thankful that that happened to you. But there was a little moment where she activated and was doing housewives again on the show, which is crazy considering there had been a gun in her face in her home. And that is what I'm saying, if that

makes sense. Yeah, it's like Bowen's right, if it rewires your brain, it really it changes how you process things that happened to you, and you do look at things in terms of your life, in terms of storylines, in terms of like what your arc is going to be, whether or not you're going to be untouchable from criticism, and like this definitely gets her get out of jail

free card for sure. And and it's just I mean, I don't know, it's so profound only disturbing to me, but also like they I'm here, I just want to ask you both thoughts on Diana Jenkins, who I think is the best new housewife intro in very scenda, maybe very exciting. She's I mean, she's a little she's odd. She's an odd duck, you know. But we don't want normal woman, of course not. And she's not given that.

Let me tell you that right now. She is not giving that she has of course she is the weird accent down she we have a weirder accent than the reads. We have more money than Erica. We have like more dismissive than like anything vander Pump would ever do. Like when she came in and she said to the conflict of the show, this is TACKI we need a new topic, class list, this is class class less. I love it.

I love when a new housewife doesn't get the memo and really comes in hot and like blazes through and you're like, oh honey, you blew your load a little quickly, like you're already you're already producing, because that's that's thing. Okay, I love her whatever whatever, Like we'll see where she goes. But I think she's very very conchi of like what her job is, and I'm already seeing that happen. I'm already seeing like her being like okay, like what am

I gonna do? Okay, well I'm gonna ruffle some feathers and like this is classless, which, by the way, is like put a super cut of like all the classless women saying this is classless. Like okay, like any update computer and board. So it's like, you know, but but so there is a little bit of like self awareness. But that is a hallmark of the Beverly Hills franchise. There's so they're so savvy that that's part of part of why the franchise has been less fun until, of course,

Erica Jane allegedly embezzled millions of dollars. Thank god I got it all back on track. But um, but it's like because they are so hyper fucking aware of what to do, and it's just it's not as pleasurable, you know what I mean. I do find it amusing that. I I my theory is that Ash, her partner, and her son are clearly fucking or something. I don't know,

Like I would love that. I would love that. The husband, I think, I don't know if they're married or they're they're just dating, I believe engaged or gave like extremely serious either one he sucks dudes for sure. Yeah, sure, Broadways, Broadways. I don't know if i'd necessarily who greeted Garcel like hate, gorgeous, stunning, something you actually slinging the house now. I know. I loved your role in the Jamie Fox Show. I'm a

huge Garcel fan. Yeah, that's my wife over there. I love I love I love when days infiltrate the simulation. I love when gay I love when gays get in you know what I mean. They take and they take a lonely, vulnerable, wealthy woman and they just they slide up and they just get right in there. You know what I mean. That's that's Plato's gay cave, is that you realize that it's the project and then you want

to go into the projection. Absolutely, and gay grifter, I mean, hello, there's so many gay grifter It's like like tales a little scot. I mean, Sutton literally will once a week if if you hang out at hid Tops enough, you will see Sutton walk down. Santa Monica bole of Are with her gay who allegedly was called f a g by Kathie Hilton this season, although it's just been disputed. I hope that I wish I wanted to be true.

I wanted to be true by the way, of course, fucking like Kathy Hilton said that, Here's here's the thing. There is some weird paths that the Hilton's have always gone in terms of their history with like racism and like like Paris Hilton has been openly racist for like saying the N word all these horrible things, and she gets and like people just like then she's like, oops, I was traumatized by Utah Boarding School. Yes, and people like and people were like, oh my god, Queen, we

love a redemption narrative. Yes, we've been so harsh on you, but blah blah. I mean, obviously both can be true, but like, but it's just like they're Republicans, Babe, I don't know what to tell you. Like Cathellen is probably friends with gays and then like literally it's like love you like a sister and then votes against the rights

when we're gone. I mean like literally, like I don't know, it's like it's not surprising to me, and anyone that thinks that they're like actually for them is like disturbed, you know what I mean. Yeah, there are limits to like restitution narratives that are like very much in vogue

right now, Like I don't know you. You gotta go like, well, Paris Hulton was like kind of like pound for pound, like a bad person, you know, like just like in terms of like if you like go through like if you sort of look at the totality of the person of Paras Hulton, like and like I just I say, this is someone who's met her with math same God we've changed. I'm like, I don't I don't love you, I don't like I don't like worship you the way that like I think she thinks that everyone else does.

I don't know anyway, I definitely, um, well, here's what I'd say about Paris Hilton. We definitely sang her second most famous song to her nothing Nothing, It's better. It's the better one. And so that's and just just to sort of own up completely to our stand um, to her face, her hands are not clean. Your well being is a job. It is it is it really is of interest. Being gay is a complicated job title of a title of app We gotta ask, we really do Matt, why don't you do it? Ryan? This is the big

question of last cultures. Thus and the question is as follows, What was the culture that made you say culture is for me? Okay? Can I be like a pretentious bit about it? Growing up, I loved indie films, Okay, I did I love the era of Gregor Rocky. Okay, so who, by the way, this is this is my I've changed moment.

I've become friends with Greig, and like, Greg doesn't understand how important he is to me, Like I think, really well, I mean I told him, I've told him, but he's kind of like law Town, USA, and like doesn't really take anything seriously. So I'm kind of like, okay, but no, like I'm truly addicted to you, and like, not only did you introduce me to shoegaze, which is like the only music I listened to, but it's like but also like you're you know, like the Living End and nowhere

the Doom generation. Like yeah, like Kaboom, White Bird in a Blizzard, Like it's just so seminal, I mean like and but especially in the early nineties, he was making these gay art films that were just so incredible and so funny and dark and weird. So like I watched those as like a very very very small child because my parents do that could be any rules um um, so I was, I was doing that, and then I was like watching and then of course like Greg was

really important to me. And then Parker Posey, which is like the day Trippers House of yes, um like uh, you know, clock Watchers with Lisa Coudreau and Tony Klett and a lot of I mean, I was like an indie film fucking freak. I had this gab asitter who was a lesbian well not at the time, like not out but like honey game recommendation yeah, which she literally was a softball coach, which was a little on the nose,

but yeah um. And she took me to see Last Days of Disco when I was like ten years old, like with Chloe seven Yer, and like, I just I just love those movies so so deeply, and I was like, okay, there is like a gorgeous life. I felt like Bell in the Duty and the Beast like I mean, you know, as we know, I grew up on Aaron Brockovet Strye and then and then these were this was your library

and the Beast Castle. You were absolutely absolutely And then another major moment was watching the show Popular Uh the Ryan Murphy's first show, Wow yeah, yeah yeah, And there was these two truly truly deranged characters, Mary Cherry and Nicole Julian. Oh you know yeah, Leslie Grossman and Tammy Lynn Michaels. And Leslie Grossman also a person that I've met and hung out with. And I'm like, you don't

understand what this is. I know she she she like downplays her whole like what she means to gay people. No people, No, I know. By the way we went to Lascala of course, and and also and also she gave me a ride home. She's like, do you need a ride? I was like, because I feel like that could go either way. It was incredible. It wasn't that good. It was. It was. It was a natural extension of the moment. It was. It was. It was not it was not like, oh this got awkward now that we're

like not at church, you know what's call it? Um. So she truly is an icon that I feel like people everyone everyone knows in their heart, but but for some reason, like maybe not everyone knows her name, but like she is like singular, yes she's that girl. Oh absolutely, so, I mean I was that bitch like I saw vision of suicides in the theater when I was like twelve, and I was like, okay, Sofia cop obsessed with Kirsten Dunes.

I mean, I've always necessed with Kirsten so like, but like Popular was the first time, truly I think I realized I was gay. Because there used to be this message board called Television Without Pity, which was like the original episode recap, but it was like Dell computer vibes, you know what I mean. So it was like yeah, okay, oh my god, say okay, of course it's like a lifeline. Yeah. Um. And I remember like there was one episode of Popular where they're like, oh, this is about Josh because like

getting on the football team, who cares? The only people watching this are women in gay men, And I was like and me. Then I was like, oh, I think I might be gay. And I mean I was like literally like in m roll call in middle school saying like like Ryan o'carlby like thank you, like Nicole Julian like literally like like like yeah, your personality I became. I became the cold joyant and Mary Cherry. Yeah. But that was like the first time I really understood like

a queer sensibility and what that meant. And then of course, you know you mosy on over to Susan Sontag's notes on camp and then it's all makes sense to you, you know what I mean? Yes, but those where I mean it was but yeah, it was basically that me being in the Indian little bit, my crush being Parker Posey, you know what I mean. Really, that's that's really the

breadth of that is is really is great. I've been watching a lot of Christopher Guests lately and truly just I honestly think what she does in those movies too is just it's so people don't she is, like she honestly deserves like a lifetime achievement oscar now for how singular she is to cinema and how she important important she was in the world you described, and also just the world of those mockumentary films, Like she is truly singular and needs even if I don't even know if

she wants this, but she needs the moment that, like Jennifer Cool is just happening that that of course she wants it, Are you kidding me? But part of her makes me feel like she might be just too fucking cool for that, like she doesn't give a fuck. But then again, she was in Superman. She was no, honey, I think she really wants it. Yeah, I mean, who doesn't you know? I mean, but I think I think she's having her moment. She's in the staircase, which, by

the way, I typically don't even watch scripted. Besides I love that for you, which, of course, which when by which I'm not even kidding you, Like, I am so obsessed with it, genuinely, and now you're so fucking funny in it. I'm like, she's an actor, Like okay, like she's giving actor thank you for saying this. I appreciative.

It's honestly, it's it's really just fun to that character is fun to play, which is like, thanks fucking God, because we get i mean, we get offered so many things that are just like you know, come in and like ask someone where where you want to put something down, and so you get a character that's like fun to play and you don't have to write yourself. That's huge. Yeah, I mean I cannot. I cannot. And also it's just like deliciously weird. It's a weird show than I appreciate.

I just love like when a show is not afraid to just be like kukumgogo, you know what I mean. Yeah, it's it's definitely giving Vanessa. Yeah, you know what I mean, Like it's so much Vanessa, but the best way and the best you know. I love it. No, I know it's insane. She can literally just exist and it's like, and I guess that's what I mean about, like maybe she doesn't even give a funk because she, to me exists in a different plane of existence and like she

need not care about all that ship. But then again, I guess it does matter. It does absolutely matters because of course, like she works really hard. I mean, anyone that works really hard, like once recognition, that's sort of like I mean, for someone to be beyond that is

either like lobotomized or lying. What do you mean? So we love Actually, my friend Craig just directed her in a movie with Lisa, and I was like, first of all, like you're hanging out, You're hanging out with literally half a clod Watchers, which he's never seen, and I was like okay um, and I was like I'm literally gonna fly to fucking Massachusetts and like crash, this this is insane.

I would be like, I would be so overwhelmed being and by the way, I don't want to meet like we talked before, like I don't want to meet any famous people because I I'm scared of all of them and like they're usually very unwell. But like Lisa, I would say, Lisa's when I would want to meet Lisa Coudreau Harker posey. I would love Mary Kittelson, I would love I would love Chloe Chloe seven for sure, I know, but I think that's kind of it. I think those are my four that I actually would want to meet.

Everyone else can literally like go, I'm just avoid you know what I mean? Yeah? Oh, and I guess honestly, Kim Control was someone that I was obviously a bi pan of and now she pays my mom, So that was actually really amazing. I was wondering, Oh, honey, honey, what was that? Like, Honey, she's made first of all, I liked. I think that people are entering an era of like realizing how funny and cool she is. Did you see that Variety interviews she did? I didn't read it.

Oh my god, Okay, okay, you should because she's so fucking funny. She's dry as a goddamn bone, and she just like gives no fox in this really refreshingly honest way, which like, honestly, if you've been working forever, like why should you give any focks, like live your best sucking life and like be honest about things, and like that's amazing. So I feel like people are like really addicted to her right now, which like working with her was such a dream. She was such a she just she just

gets it. She just sucking gets it, which like you know it's not only the case rightly. Yeah, I mean I'm bowen, and I sort of feel we've said on this podcast that, well, Bone, do you agree with me when I say, if you've been famous for fifteen years at this point you have you need to retire. I think we need all the famous people were people after the Chris Rock Will Smith slap. I think we got on Install Live and we're like, I think we just

need a refresh. We can talk about some people case by case, but general rule, if you've been famous for fifteen years or more, probably we need to I'm not saying they go somewhere. I'm just saying they stopped doing and being who they're being no more famed after fifteen years. Yeah, that's so true. We should put a timer on it. And if they've evolved correctly, they should be glad to have the time to run out right. That's a big if.

I mean, yes. But the thing with too, with like Kim Contral is like every single thing she says about not wanting to be on sex and this city understand and agree with. It's completely valid. It doesn't stop me from watching and just like that and being like maybe at the finale she comes around in the corner knowing full well that she would not, And I also like, you know, I do like the the part of me that's like the most basic like really does want that.

But also I completely as a human being. Whenever Kim is asked to speak about it, which I can't believe she is, but she is, and she says no, the answer is no. It's a flat out no, it's a hard no. I'm not doing it. I don't enjoy it. I don't enjoy those people. It was a job. I'm always like yes literally and and and everyone shut up, you know what I mean. Well, it's it's like that question of like what we're talking about earlier, like how much money do you need? Like clearly like she doesn't,

you know what I mean. It's like yeah, it's like, you know, she wants to be happy famously, she doesn't want to spend you know, more than an hour somewhere where she's not having the time for g damn life. I was like, okay, love, um, so yeah, that's exactly what she should be doing instead. You know, all the other ones are just like sure, we'll take this like rusty old Wagon out for a spin again, like you know what I mean, It's just, oh my god, what a horror show that show was. I cannot wait to

watch forty more seasons. Similarly, it's truly like it's sex in the sim City. Like I truly like I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone when I'm watching it. I really feel like it's like giving Westworld, you know what I mean. It's like not, it's not real. None of it is real. None of it is founded on like human emotions. I do think that once you enter a tax bracket you become so emotionally unintelligent. I think

that really shows, do you know what I mean? I'm like, you really haven't met anyone in like twenty years have you You know what I mean? I always say like when you live in the canyon for too long, you lose reception. You know what I mean? Oh my god, that's genius. It feels true. But speaking of I mean, we are we are on record here on a lost culture as thinking that um and just like that is written by third graders. But the thing is like I I would if I could inject it into my body,

I would. Um. And speaking of revival slash reboots, you are, of course sort of iconically a writer and star of the new queer as Folk revival. So I would like to ask pose this question, what was your experience with queer as Folk outside of masturbating to select clips of it? Um? That's basically it. Um. No, I mean, and thank you for being honest about that. No, I mean, here's the deal, here's the deal, and Kcock Media Training is gonna hate

me for this. Um. But basically, UM, I watched, like anyone else, I watched the US Queer Spolke incognito Blockbuster video, you know what I mean, like literally like inspector Gadget, like there we go under the covers, and I was obviously very titillated. I was definitely like twelve year old hard um, like all all the things right. But of course, after like the come and euphoria washed off of me, Um, I was like, oh, being gays gonna be hard. It's not gonna be good. I don't see me on that

dance floor. By the way, this is not me like holding them to task. And I like, yeah, there's no queer to say about people like break, bring me a break, sweetie. It was like revolutionary. It was. It was absolutely groundbreaking. You know, now it's ben't twenty like and so, but but that that watching it in a way like it did a number on me, like no j K. And then this is when I got like corny about like representation mattering, but it did because that's the only lifeline

that I had. And it was just sort of like and again, it's not a fault of theirs, it's not me dragging them, but it's just sort of like, Okay, well, I don't see myself having any kind of life that looks like there's so like off to the celibacy world.

I go um. And so you know, I feel like in this today's oversaturated reboot climate, I feel like queers focus one of those rare things that can actually justify its existence because so much has sucking changed, Like and it's honey, like we were running on Safari for a long time, and now it's time to go to like, you know, Firefox or you know, maybe even Monterey or big Firefox is better than Safarty. You I think, no, sorry, oh my god, I'm Chrome Chrome. See this is clear

clearly I'm not. No, please very queer fact checked me because I'm not a tech girl, And you're right, it's from it's giving Chrome under staying it would be super queer to be like I use Firefox. You know, fire it's actually culture number sixty. Firefox is queer browser. Clear browser.

Um yeah. But I actually had never at the time. Obviously, I wasn't thinking about it at all because I was like a white gay kid living in a very white world, and I see this and it always like intimidated me because I felt like, even even from that perspective, it did present a world where you had to be like either very sexually experienced or find someone who was going to be your teacher, because that that was really that was really my imprint on it was it was this

very I don't think I understood a thing that was going on. I just like because I was so preoccupied, like viscerally understanding what was happening when I was watching it. So but I never thought about it as something that felt like exclusionary because obviously it included a future version of me, of course, but it's interesting that you felt included,

but you still felt very overwhelmed. And I think that, like I think that, like even like the hyper sexualized nature of the show, which like I mean, I mean gay sexpert days, you know me, But it's like this idea of like needing to be really amazing and bed and like knowing how to do all things, and like feeling you know, sexually inadequate, which I think a lot

of gay men grappled with in a very real way. Um, because we have been so hyper sexualized and you know, there's all these stereotypes of us like which is fine, it's all like whatever, but it can kind of do a number on your self esteem and like the sexual arena, do you know what I mean? So it was it was cheat because like if twelve year old me, like you know, quietly masturbating into the covers, um, I knew that I was gonna be in the reboot, would be like, Okay,

you really are Virgo go off. That was pretty honestly has to be. What is the like, um connection between this one and the original? Are there any people that were involved in the original, like weighing no, which a lot of people on the internet seemed to be upset about. I'm like, honey, like, move on, dot Org. I don't know. You can watch the old Ones on DVD. How do you different it's a different era? Yeah, um yeah, you

know they're is No, there's no like connective tissue. I mean there's like things that like feel spiritually resonant with

like the original one, Like there's Babylon and the new one. Um, but it feels very much its own distinct show, which I was really really excited about, and I don't know, it was just really cool also like running for an all queer cast because we could be as messy and complicated as we wanted to be without feeling like we needed to represent entire like swap population, which I think

sometimes people do feel that burden a little bit. I mean I never do tbh, but like it can be a problem that you know, shows run into and it was just amazing to just like be like, oh, this person's queer, this person's queer. Like I feel like, you know, a straight person in the show is basically a diversity higher at this point, you know what I mean. But it was really fun. I wasn't supposed to be in it either. Stephen was like, oh, like you know, do

you like you should be in it? And I was like, oh, okay, just dusting off the show. That was that went from just you being in the room to being on the cast. It was. It was when we met to be on the show and I was originally just meaning to be a writer, and he was like, I want you to be on the show, like as a serious regular and I I still the very complicated relation with acting, which was very relatable to God, and you don't have to

tell these things behind bulletproof glass. It's like literally so obnoxious.

But it's like I wasn't supposed to start and Special, and then I was, and then I thought after Special I would be done and never do it again, and um, and to go from that to this very quickly, it's been like I don't know, and like I don't know, I just like feel I just have a lot of feelings about it and whether or not I think I have a lot of imposter syndrome tv H, I have a lot of imposter syndrome because um, I didn't go to school. I take writing very seriously, I really do.

And I and and with acting, it's like I just kind of fell into it in this way, and I have a lot of guilt about that, and like whether or not I'm deserving to be there, do you know what I mean? But well, I can see feeling like that because but the thing about you is like you are a very authentic person and that comes through on screen. And I think that like you have such there is such a singularity to you that I feel like I understand,

like you didn't go to school for acting. You feel like you're taking it from someone who did maybe or like whatever that is. But there's also something to say for Like, I mean, what we do is about communicating, and you are a very clear and good communicator, both on the page and on screen, and so I mean that's not a mistake and you deserve it, thank you, And that's also something to be said about There's also something to be said about you acting in extension to

your writing. And you've only acted in things that you've Yeah, I've never I've never auditioned, like I can't do that? That would that would like give me like I can't. Well, first of all, I'm a control freak. Second of all, so much of what for when no one's banged on my door? Of course, But like the few things I do get, it's like to play like someone you know, it's to play like someone from Pretty Little Liars piano teacher, like it's not you know what I mean, it's it's

like and and I remember the first time. I remember when Special came out. I was like, oh, I guess I should god an acting agent. I guess, like to see what that's about. And I remember I got My first thing was for the love Birds with Ray and it was awful. I mean it was it was really bad. And I remember I called my agent and I was like, can I rewrite this? And like genuine and she was like, no, you have to go in there and do it as written. I'm like, but it's bad, and she's like, you can't

rewrite it. And I was like, oh then I can't do this. I'm like can't, I said, can I ever rewrite anything, and she goes no, and I'm like, so I have to take these pages. I have to do that and she's like yes, And I was like, oh, then don't send me anything. I wanted to do something that you wrote and have to go to go to you. Hey, I'm thinking about reworking this scene. They well, because it'll be good. No, I really, I just don't get it. I'm like, it's like, so much of it is so bad.

I can't I can't wrap my hand around it. Is true, it's so bad and like and also part of it is I'm a control freak and I like to be you know, involved, but you know, in so many different ways. Otherwise I get kind of bored. I like doing all the stuff. It's really exciting to me. Um and yeah, so it was really it was really exciting experence. Plus living in New Orleans, it's like so yeah, none of us have it is weird, like that is like I think that and that Denver where Bone is from, and

like Nashville, Well he's from Okay. I love that pregnant pause because how close Aurora to Denver. Oh, it's like, uh like eight miles outside of Okay. So it's an exerp. It's an exerbi of yees. Anyway, I didn't know if it was like a Dallas Fort Worth thing where it's like people from that Fort Worth are sort of claiming Dallas like that. It's not like we just went to high school. You went to high school with Liz, right. I did high school with our friend Lizela Renley. Yeah,

I love Yeah, a frequent pool guest. Yes, she is in that pool. She's in that pool. I love that pool. By the way. It's a cute little pool, Jared's pool. Liz was. Liz was bff with Yang, with my sister Yang amazing. Yeah, well, after all the first Christmas parties that Yan would throw at our house in college, like she would invite Liz over, and Liz would just regale everybody because at the time she had the chickest job out of anybody, which was like being like Tyra Banks's

assistants assistant or whatever the hell. Yeah she was, and she was also she was she was high Clum's assistant too, That's what it was. Yes, Yeah, it was high Clum and then and then it was Tira and then she got it, she got hired and awkward, I think, which was also which was also my first writing job to really yeah, but we missed each other, well, we mist each other by a season. She did season three and I did seasons four and five. But yeah, god, I

got it. So she was moonlighting as like supermodel assistant for for quite a while. I wonder what Supermodels and Tira was on. I love that for you, little full circle moments truly came in. There are little supermodels are connected to all of us. Thank thank you, thank you. And the thing is, it's like they live in our world. You could be one. And that's I'm talking to all

the us. We have a lot of aspiring actors, writers and models that listen to a Lost Countures and I'm telling them you are in closer proximity to Heidi Kluman. You think, keep going, mama. I'm saying that to everyone that listens right now. Keep going, mama, no matter what you're doing. I feel like you guys are getting model. I feel like photo shoots for days love addicted. Well, he's commenting on recent shoots. What do you mean you guys are like hello again, Bowen. We were on the

same cover of magazine. I know what you can do. We were on doing. We were on doing is, which is like pinning two gay people against each other, which is not unfair. It's so fucked up. I loved yours. I loved yours, but I know I loved I loved every other photo except for the cover. Except for the cover, I thought, and I'm so sweet. Oh god. It was like it was like giving like infantilize like people because it's a it's a larger issue I have of like

being disabled. People are like, oh my guys don't and You're like, how do I just want to be hot? I want you to absolutely rail Just tell me I'm pretty Yeah, no, I can literally just tell you I want to be absolutely railed. And like I like, I'm like, don't make me do this like five year old, like

you know what I mean. It just makes me like feel gross getting all pretense out, Like yes, it is a little bit about that, Like everyone wants to be railed, and so when they say to you, we can dress you up in a way that if people look at the picture they want to rail you, it's like, yeah, then sign me up for the railing. Yeah, absolutely absolutely, I did my I did like my first kind of like nude shoot like last week, which I was like, love well, because it's like when you're around gays, first

of all, it's immediately safe and it's immediately horny. I mean it's like already like like you and you know that you can like take it there like or like it's like, well and actually it's an interesting dance. You're kind of like okay, and then of course, like I'm a shy girl, so and he's like and then I'm like,

oh do you like? And then you know, you see that what the options are for clothes, and you're like, oh okay, there's there's already like eighty jock straps like on the thing, so like this is already going to be what it is. Okay, great love that. So okay, okay, we're gonna let's let's push the pedal to the metal. Do you know what I mean? I loved it. I thought it was like it was very empowering, it was very chic, like you know, I just feel like you

gotta have those moments, those like little thoughty moments. Yeah, I mean, the thing is it's it's it's it's part of it. It's part of it. You just had a thought I had a I had a thought shoot for Gay Letter. I I did a thong. How do you feel about it? You know? What made me feel better the fact that Joel, Kimbooster and Cola School and we're also doing it. When I heard that we were all doing and I was like, Okay, it's sort of like when you hold hands with your girls in order to

go into the haunted house. Like for me personally, I need I need two girls on each of my arms when I go into the haunted house or else I'll be really scared, like I by myself. No, there's I'd be so scared. That's so interesting. Oh my god, Yeah, it's really interesting. Do you do you do haunted houses? What do you mean, like, like, do you like them? Do you like to go into a hunted house? No, there's like a lot of things I don't the thing, No,

I don't. You don't like scary things? I don't know. No, I do I like scary movies. Yeah, I'm not so opposite. So yeah, I don't do Like there's too much activity like how haunted house and we talked about when you guys talked about going to like that not very farm thing. I'm like what is this. I don't understand, but I support you. Um I'm saying is things that are scary

are are easier with friends. And because because including nude photo shoots, including nude photo shoots, we didn't all do it at the same time, I think that would make me a little scared. Although Boone and I did recently do a shirtless photo shoot together for the cover of this podcast That's Fun. Did you love that? It was so quick it wasn't scary at all. And then we were also giving we were giving um little sexy little harlots as a as a goof yes, we'll see I

I need to be looped up. Like at first they were like how willing how far are you willing to go? And I was like no, Like what do you mean, what are you talking about? I was like, yeah, you know, I mean, I was like, give me the give me

the full body suit. And then literally cut to like three songs later, I'm literally playing treeting like a slot like Petros and I'm like literally showing whole and like literally like I'm just like They're like, wow, this athletic quickly and I'm like he be like slut honestly there's a reason why we all fucking love it's because we know what it sounds like in our voice. Like when I listened to it for the first time, it was like basic gay slut activated. It literally was like mae,

but it was like, okay, let's go. I was like talk about a cyborg. I was literally just like yes, I want to funk fuck you know what I mean. It's amazing. Something something about Kim is so activating. It's it's really like something it's like beyond star quality. It's beyond like charisma. There's something about like there's a command to her voice or something like it is her voice, it's you know what it is. It's literally the resonance

in her voice. It's she's here, it's she's she. It's like it's like it's almost like she's punching a code into our brains when things, yes, well she can push she puts the air through. Are in order and order? No, they're in order, Like there are a call to action. They're literally like it's like a it's like a robot giving you a command and you're like, okay, I will be a slot because you said so. Like literally it's

like okay, you can't be relaxed. And this is not a knock on her, It's just you can't be relaxed listening to her music. It's what you're saying. It is activated. It is an order, It is a call like Whereas like if she had a voice like Shade, if her vocal tone was, you know, giving Tony Braxton, we'd sit back in our chairs. You know, you'd say, like the blunt. But with with Kim, you're not lighting the blunt, you're

sort of taking No. Absolutely, absolutely not. The first time I ever heard like st it was it was when we were shooting a dance scene at Babylon and everyone took off their shirts and dance and it was like it was giving nineties throwback. I loved it. It was it was like I could not. I could not have done that without Kim. I could not. I could not has to do a slop pop cover true child. Honestly I would look into that. Oh yes, absolutely, to put that in my veins. Oh my god, I think I

still I still do spin that, Kim. I'll tell you that that that EP. I spin that Kim. What is that? You know? The ep with with treat Me like a slot? I mean, I I really do. It's held up in my rotation, that's for sure. Absolutely, It's only been out for like three months, by the way, you should say, but that's a comment on the transient nature of pop, you know, sure, sure, Like we're asked, we're asked to

consume so much. Although you know, the girls are really mad right now, and we've had several people on this podcast come on and talk about the TikTok of it all in pop music like this, this is a big this is a big thing right now, Like Halsey is taken to her TikTok to be her Instagram or whatever to be like, there's a song I'm obsessed with that I really want to release and my label won't let

me because it's not TikTok. All are there and they need to find out how to make it TikTok a bill and I need And I'm not viral enough on that, and Baron Morris mentioned it, and it's been mentioned other times, and it seems like like this TikTok thing is like really really really now shaping the music that we are even given an opportunity to listen to. I feel like Old Lady Rose from Titanic thing like it's been many four years. Literally, like I don't even know what any

of that means. I'm literally like okay, just that, just that, like it's motivating. The reason why, like songs are shorter and again brains, Yeah, totally. It has to be a certain like bpm so that there can be like dances like you know, choreographed to and stuff like that. Oh that's so dark or like just bowing up the altar of TikTok yikes. Yeah, well, don't worry. I'll be listening to my slow died below in my bedroom. Bone. Do you think it's time? I think it's time. I think

it's time for I don't think so, honey. It's sort of celebrated of the podcast, which really asks um, the hosts and guests of the podcast to do one thing rant to get something in culture for sixty seconds. It's absolutely pissing us off. Um, I have something that happened to me today that I would like to get off my chest. Okay, we'll start with you, Matt. This is Matt Rodgers. I don't think so, Honeytime starts now. I

don't think so, honey. My air pods are in my walk is a struct Unfortunately, no matter where I go, no matter what I'm doing. If I'm listening to music, I am strutting. And I know what you're going to say to me when you tap me on the shoulder, if we're running into each other, what are you listening to? Your absolutely strutting. I'm gay. It's a part of the way that I expressed myself. I can't not strut when

I walk. You're not like making a new like observation when you tell me, oh my god, you were absolutely strutting. I know my air pods were. And it could be literally you know there, there could never be back to before from Ragtime, or it could be are on a Grande a live album. I'm strutting. When I'm listening to music. The synapsis fire from my brain. It goes to my hips. And when I sort of go into a feug state where I'm just sort of doing my thing running, my

body just turns into a strut. I'm gay. It's a part of who I am, and my d n A makes my body act this way. I'm a strutter. I'm not a sort of a stroller. I'll never be a stroller. Don't ask me something like that I can't accomplish for you. I'm a strutter. I don't think so, honey, And that's one minute. Don't apologize. You know what. Maybe I did say the words i'm sorry in that call back to the book. Um, maybe I did say the words i'm sorry a bunch in that. I don't think so, honey.

But what I'm saying, what I really want to do, is just say I'm accepting it about myself. And when people call it out to me, I feel self conscious every time because I think it makes me feel like, oh, I'm looking gay on the street, which is some classical conditioning from way back. But you know what, I'm a strutter and I'm gonna here to normalize strutting despite you know,

being alone and just doing menial tasks. Representation matters. I mean, if anything we've learned from this hour and a half, I mean, hello, yeah, that that's that's been a major topic and it should be yang time. You don't think so, honey. Are you sort of galvanized? I am its yeah. I love when my girl gets calvinized. Um, this is your your I don't think so, honey. Your time starts now. I don't think so, honey, anti reflective coding on eyeglasses.

I allegedly bought that paid like an extra hundred dollars for anti reflective coding on these lenses. Then, in the words of Mulan, why is your reflection showing in my glasses? You guys can see yourselves right like like like in a way, you guys can see like some projection of yourselves onto me, onto my eyes. That's not acceptable. That is not literally I'm being I'm being scammed out of um.

I'm doing press tomorrow and I can't wear these glasses because there's gonna be too much glare and I feel like I'm like a villain in a Japanese anime. I'm gonna be like just on camera with a with a full glare on my eyeglasses. I can't be looking like that while I'm promoting five second new film Fire Island coming out on June third on Hulu and Disney Plus and international territories. And that's one minute. I who helped

you there? Did they tell you their name? As guy at Studio Optics and Rockefeller Center and running like Studio Optics. He was so he was so helpful, he was so helpful in getting my glasses to me early. But he did really pitch the antireflective coding and Ryan, I'm sure you familiar with this part of the project. Another relatable moment. Have you ever been hashtag on set and they're like, oh, his glasses, like we need to fix his glass like

like like like we can't. Is all glare And I'm like, funny, she was born this way. I don't know what to tell you, Like literally, I don't know. And I've been there when that's happened to Bowen and every time I never even think about what this experience is like it is absolutely hounds like the spott of my differences. You hold up production, you're that you know what I mean, and it's like and it's like, literally, I don't feel you.

It's my glasses. And by the way, these classes cost forty million dollars because because my my my vision is so fucking bad that I have to like airlifted to like tim bluck fucking too and it's not to be ready for four months. So I'm like, I've done everything

I can. I put on answer like whenever they say like do you want all the bells and whistles like anti reflector or whatever, and I'm like, yes, yes, a million times yes, and it comes back and I'm still serving reflection and I'm like, I don't honey, there's a ceiling and I've hit it. We've hit the ceiling. Hunt. But I think I think I was given up a purposefully low ceiling on this because my other glasses don't reflect as much. So somebody lied. Somebody lied to sabotage you.

That's what I know. Who it is. Mike obviously works for the competing Queer Project of the Summer Queer as Folk producers of folk came to sabotage Wait, we need to rewind the tape that was iconic, the competing gay project what Bros No queers by the way, By the way, just to fact check and said, with absolute undying love, Bros. Doesn't coming out to September, okay exactly, And a lot of the media coverages this will be like the gay

rob come of the summer, And I'm like, honey, September summer. Yeah, but that's what it feels like summer. Not for nothing. By the way I saw the trailer, I want it in my veins. I'm obsessed with it. But I'm like, this is the longest roll out of history. But also that's just called money in studio vibes. You know what I mean. It's fully a fall film unless you know an Indian summays the first day of summer is Une. So I don't think Fire Island even Wow. Okay, so

we are a movie of the spring. So honestly spring Fire Island is a spring film, and I'm sorry about bros. Is Although when it's an autumn picture, you're like, get me the calendar. We set it fall, we set football like cancel us. It's fall it is, you know, look at the calendar. I hope someone I hope someone grabs from this podcast like Bowen Yang and Matt Rogers a Fire Island disparage, bros. Call it quote fall film. Aren't you in? Bros? Yes? I am. For one little scene?

Did you green screen it? What happened? I did do one green screen thing where I'm supposed to dance with Harvey fire scenes character dance together. But we but we shot on separate days, so we just got me. Oh my god, movie sucking busy and fucking busy into the damn um. So listen, speaking of speaking of the film, the show here comes the big show that is going to beat Ryan O'Connell's I don't think so, honey, sister. Are you ready, Yeah, Ryan O'Connell, this is your I

don't think so, honey. Your time starts now. Okay. So I was a gay man. I feel like I have to have a lot of opinions about things that I do not care about. Is non consensual, and I want to give a list of things that you cannot talk

to me about because I do not care. Okay. Number one, opinions about the Cole Kidman is a patron saint for unemotional gaze, like literally like it's like, honey, it's like, if you tell me an opinion about Nicole Kidman, you have to tell me one single emotion you've had in the last five years. Little Okay, I can't. I can't. It's honey, it's ice cold. I can't move it on um on Sunday, an underdog pop star. I have my hands full with Skyper. I cannot deal with Colson. I can't, Okay.

Lady Gonda, besides Promatica and the time she got mad at her grandma for not grieving her daughter's death on camera? Who won best warning acres one? Who one does? I don't care. I don't care. Who want actual I'm sure it was someone who cares. Moving on anything that happens on Twitter, if you have a successful career in your still on Twitter, I'm having okay, guys named Colton or Mikey and that's my one. Honestly, all those things like I care about on every other day. But but but

here's the thing. I can care about the oscars, but not whom one in seventy one best actress. I mean, it's two different deals. People take it to the extreme, and my honey, like, what's like? I mean, I know, honey, first of all, if you connect with Michael Kidman, you're obviously not giving emotion to begin with, because she's she's she's obviously Arctic tundra. We know that. But like, but I'm like, I like, truly, can I buy a vowel? Can I buy a feeling? You know what I mean?

You're you're you're talking about Nicole Kidman as if she's January Jones, as if she's like fully stone faced in all her words. I wouldn't say she's like a warm teddy bear baby like. I mean, she modes, I feel like Nicole a mode she like has has a range of em but her power is in how what's the word she is? So she is extremely precious and she

is like a glass doll. And that gives her steely resolve, It gives her authority, gives her power, it gives her like, uh, she looks like a piece of china that we're waiting to see the crack in. And there is something that is not inherently emotional like that, like for example, if you're if you're to examine like Reese Witherspoon. Yes, she can play like bitch, but she's also bleeding heart. Nicole Kidman could not play Kyle Richard. The same genre is

Carol Gaze. Carol gaze, I can't engage with I don't deal with it. That movie is a glambian okay. And if you it is an absolute glambian okay. And so this is I don't think so honey on louis for tell, oh my god, l o l It's he a Carol Gay number one, number one chet Gay. I can't keep track. We'll tell you, who will tell you? Who want best supporting actress is probably sucking a guy named Colton, you know. But also Louis is a legitimate sweetie pie, so maybe

he's he's actually he's act I don't think so, honey too. Okay, I'm a sweetie pie. I need to be I don't think so honey, all the dude a day. It's true, we'll do incredible. Yeah, there's just a lot. There's a lot. There's a lot. There's a lot. And I feel like I need to clock into my shift at the I'm Gay store, and it's just like, oh my god, here we go, here we go. Gott to give another fucking opinion.

I also think that it has a lot to do with just like hell, you're socially conditioned to relax and hang out like something I think is interesting. Sometimes are people at the same party who want to talk and people who want to like, play games or have an objective. Sometimes I'll be in a social situation and I won't understand and and sometimes when games are good, I'm in like,

if we're doing games, we're doing games. But when everyone is having a nice time talking and then someone says we're playing a game, I'm always like, um, who decided that we were playing a game now, and like what is the switch from socialization to game? And then I realized sometimes some people just speak that language, like that's

how they socialize, you know what I mean. It's asking a whole bunch of people to be like socially on the same page, which is you know, difficult when as people age and they become more who they are and they like what they like and they kim control don't want to be anywhere for an hour where they or not having a good time, you know what I mean. But I think it's I think it's mostly healing because I think at first I was intimidated and now I

feel it feel good. I don't know why. I'm like, I don't know why I'm unpacking all this it's fnt of you good whatever. Now I like it, like that we're doing I like that we're doing that. Well, that's the thing to see. Like. I also realized, like I'm a shower, not a grower, like you know what I mean, anything, some people are growers and not showers, and I have to like understand that and not perceive that as like coldness or like everyone's different and everyone everyone reveals themselves

in different ways. It's not necessarily a slight or a personal thing and just is everyone's wired differently, you know what I mean? Absolutely one and listen if you want to see more insights into a queer company. One of the most incredible shows you could watch in the coming weeks and months ahead is Cheer as Folk, which is literally on Peacock on June nine, and two days prior to that is the release of Truly Ryan What I'm What. I'm a really great, great, great, great read. I'm so like,

you really are such a great evocative writer. You're so funny, and I mean, like, I just like I see myself on every page and like, you know, it's like very universal as well, like and so all my compliments to this fucking chef on this one just by looking at him. In June seven, thank you so much, thank you for having me. Oh my god, we had the most lovely time. And Bowen Yang. We end every episode with a damn song. Treat me like slug, Teachers, pet honestly magic, treat me

like a slug. I'm a dirty bitch, I love dirty bitch. I love to fuck teacher's pride teachers to most of these songs for me, look out of the artist Kim Patricks for me watch waiting for Gusman starting Carker Posey Bye bye,