Forever. Look man, oh, I see you? Why why? And look over there? How is that culture? Yes? Goodness? Let calling already there's a lot of culture to discuss up top. First of all, this is what I have to address. Our guest has a mug that he's drinking coffee out of right now. And you fully gooped and gagged and laughed so at the words on a mug, at a mug joke. Okay, because I didn't I hadn't seen this mug before. Is this mug in the studio? Hp? Okay?
And to know that there's been comical mugs around the studio and I haven't seen them, it really makes you question. Okay, everything so in my mind needs to be experienced. Just read the mugs. I don't. I don't understand. So imagine reading this for the very first time and getting to the end of the sentence and what it must have felt like to get to this punchline. This mug says the captain is always right, and I'm the captain. I think it's very funny, very captain, Philip. It's you know what,
it's mug humor. Mug humor is specific. Mug humor is different than dad humor. Oh, it's it's the own subculture of humor. You know. The thing about mug humor, it doesn't have to be it doesn't have to be super sharp, it doesn't have to be you know, Tina fe It can just be. It can be light humor, and you can get the same thing out of it as you would sitting in front of an episode of Tina Fey. Right, Um, but that shouldn't shouldn't the Barbie raised on mug humor.
I think we can just equalize everything across all platforms. You always want more, you do, and you're never satisfied with enough. It's really a thing about you. I I never ever ever want for more with our guests. Does that make sense? I get, Well, here's what I'm saying. Here's that would say? Is that statement makes sense to you? As someone who makes no sense in the majority of the time, I would say, I will take it, but say it again, I never want for more from our guests.
I think here's the way you should say it. Our guests never leaves me wanting more. No, no, our guests always leaves me wanting more. No, that's not good. No, no, No, our guest is so fucking good. How about that? You are you are fucking um? What's your face? Little Mama on America's Next Dance Crew, Little America's Next Top Dance Next Top Dance Crew. It was little Littlema was famous. She was she was famous. She did not know how
the English language works. She was like, I love the fire that you brought, and you extinguish that fire and you can't with that fire with that performance. I love you guys so much. You always cease to amaze you always. It's actually real culture number ninety four. You always ceased to amaze me. And so she was icon. Remember when you want to up on stage at the m as rever forget um. But I'm basically I had a little Mama moment where I just I said something that you knew.
The audience knows what I'm trying to say, but it's not said in the right way. This is my whole life. I don't know my word. I do know my heart. Thank you. Wait a minute, speaking of little podcast catchphrases, Matt is wearing and we're eating grapes. Fruit is what candy is based on. Have to have question, who about the grapes? I brought the grapes and grapes. Grapes are like candy. I am wearing right. Grapes are like candy, and fruit is what candy is. There as many pieces
of candy that is based on grape. There was many pieces of candy, And so what I'm wearing right now is a little piece of merch that says fruit is what candy is based on. Which is the dumbest sentence in the world. And it wasn't even said by me. It was or by me, It was by Soudy Green. Yes, and fruit is what candy is based on. I think about this every dumb bit I was eating. I was eating dried mango last night. I've been really good about
my late night eating. I have not instead of ordering from like like a grilled cheese from a miner at like two in the morning, I just I munched on dried mango and I thought, this is candy. The fruit is what candy is based on. Um. Before we bring in the guests, I want to just talk one more thing about because you brought up food that's not good to eat. I'm shocked that you and the guests don't have a history with checkers, the restaurant checkers, the fast
food restaurant checker. Okay, yeah, we can talk about that. We're gonna talk about this for the majority of the episode. I don't know there's a Checkers anyway. On four and that I was like blown away that there was a Checkers. There's a lot of Checkers, is well. I didn't know about this, and so all the cultures just in New York. Now you know, there's a fucking Checkers in New York. And it's on fourteenth, between like between fourth and thirteenth,
on like first and there's one. Don't tell me the water marked earmarked earmarked on your maps. I don't know, all right. I love our guests. I just did the corporate retreat that this that our guests are fabulous guests did as his character Gordon, and let me tell you something, each and every person in the audience was more than tickled. They were thoroughly entertained. And I was like, that's because
this is like a fucking confident asked performer. That's just like good, it's just funny and appealing, and the voice is pinpoint precise. I love that. I very much like exactly what I look for in an experience performer. But then you know, what the deeper pleasure is. What's the deeper pleasure, bitch is getting to know him as a friend. You came back from Fire Island trip and you literally this,
this is because I did not go. I famously like, uh skipped out on the trip to go experience sometime in Los Angeles and get back to really my roots. What did I say? You said, we have a new judy. We have a new judy, not that we weren't always judies, but like you came back from this trip and you were like you had an experience you had had like a next Well the experience was acid, but also like you also like fully were like, I have a new
like top person in my life and it's joke. And I was like, I already co signed, I'm already there, I'm already on board, and it's it's if I as if I had the experience myself. Yes, I mean just the true grew of the commune. Do you know what? And also you know they're all the boys are talking about about some pictures. You know, let's let's just say he tickled us some more ways. Oh it's to do this. Don't lead with the sex. I never leave with sex.
It's six minutes of fourteen seconds, all right, and then I'll talk about sex, you know, every three minute? What is it every six seconds I think about sex? I waited six minutes. Okay, now it's time. It's time to please bring in our guests for today, Joe Castle Bakerlo, what an intro? And can you believe we didn't even say that like the plug that were supposed to do the spectacle? Such a fun show, Hi, Joe, I truly believe that we are. We are like war pals. After
truly are war pals. You know what I remember so vividly is the image of you was at the peak of our ls, just a moment as we all went back into the house and we all and You're like, I need to chop some fruit, and you took up you fullyat a psychotic moment. It truly felt like like are you sure we should be touching knives? And we're all just in the kitchens screaming like lunatics. Oh my god. Joe has like a knife with him and he's just
like pairing this. He's scoring the thing of the pineapple, opens it up and then he does this hand but he does this like violent chop like with one hand, didn't didn't didn't, didn't stabilize the pineapple just goes fact that that that that, and I was like truly something visceral, like like oh my god, dressed me on I don't remember this. I like that sound safe? It was. It was not safe. I mean it wasn't safe, but that
was the thrill. But that was the moment dangerous. And then like it was the chop chop chapter and then all of us I think, me, Max, Peter, where we were all like wait, wait, wait, let's be careful, like we all like at a communal moment of like hold on, wait a stop because especially like I feel like when you're on asset, it's like and like there could be
something that dangerous that that could happen considerate deeply. I mean, if that had happened, if I had cut off a finger on acid on the final day of Fire Island, can you imagine imagine it goes in the book. It would be a great book chapter. It might have been a good Yeah. Do you guys feel this way? I feel like it's I'm constantly living in fear that like the times that I've done it already have like cut a hole in my brain and I don't feel this way. Okay,
I've done it twice. I did it that one time, and then I did it with my brother, his wife and their friend Um at my mom's house in Connecticut, and it was like amazing. It was so fun, but it also was not nearly as intense as it was on Fire Island. The first time it took a very very light dose, but then on Fire Island it was
like I am not on Earth in another place. It seems like it was a real moment that you guys had like the second time, I like the first time with Joe, like the floor would move, like the sky was like screaming, screaming rainbows. I was like this, Yeah, I was like, this is I've reached the astral plane. I will never leave. So that time that we did it together upstate after that was that like an ideal That was an ideal one and like that was one where we just like rolled around on the grass, studied
and acorns. It was this was the good This was the good moment that I don't think we've talked about this on the pod. There was a moment where it was it was the four of us and then mo Fri Passic was there and she had not an imbibe, but she's just on that plane anyway. So I was like, are you gonna be okay? Like we're all gonna be doing this LSD and she's like, oh no, no, you'll see you're coming to my level and I which I loved.
And so then we're all sitting under this tree and I had just cried a lot and you guys all listened to me, and that was very That was very power. It was very early on. It was like, so I knew during the trip that I would have like the emotional breakthrough. That's why I was excited about it. It It happened like thirty minutes into it. I was like, the second LSD touches your tongue, It's like I was like, I think what I really need? Um? And then then I was just like sat in the havoc for an
hour and that was gorgeous. UM. But my favorite part was we're sitting under this tree. I just had this breakthrough and then we're all like holding hands and like, so this spider walks up and pass it goes okay. I just want everyone to know that the spider right there on the floor is a brown recluse, and I'm dead. And then she goes, she goes, that's a brown, brown recluse and it's one of the most poisonous spiders in
the world. I think what we should do is thank the spider because it's not hurting us, and then we'll all walk away because I think we've actually had the moment here. And then we've all agreed that we actually all had the moment under the tree that yeah, you're you're a gage shock, you are gaping, and so we all literally turned to the spider, the brown recluse, allegedly, and we thanked the spider, got up, moved, and then we had another another moment somewhere else. I did look
up the brown recluse later. It is not so I do, but you know what, but I saw that brown recluse is a recluse. It doesn't doesn't It's like it doesn't walk out on the grass. It's all come back to me now. I mean, that was a gorgeous moment. It was a gorgeous moment. We've we've had many gorgeous moms with each other. We have missed in the circle capital capital age. I mean we all we all went to the university. Now you now, now you, Okay, this is
the thing. We all went to different schools, and there's so many and there's a lot of rumors about where we all went. There's a flying us are flying. We have to address this. There's ioa debri He says, there's a vicious rumor going around our guest, Joe castle Baker. Was it e t W Experimental Theater Wing which is a Joe, please address that. When I heard that, at first, I went, okay, I'll take this head on, um and I was very flattered that people could imagine me barefoot,
you know, doing whatever they do. They dropped in rolling on the floor, rolling on the floor, screaming, um to screaming, to get to screaming to unlock the truth exactly. But I went to Gallatin, which is the E t W of the A the studios in the Tish school, and then we nap it out bigger picture all of the schools at n y U. We could say Gallatin is the et W W. What okay, so, and I want
to debunk a rumor right now. I did not go to CAP twenty one, despite being annoying and singing a lot and having like a big stage face famously music musical theater, Lady Gaga's erstwhile studio there um. And so okay, here's the thing. Yes, you're so right, Gallatin is et w at large and explain Galaton because not every one. Gallatin is the school where you make up your own major. But basically, here's the t If you go to Gallaton, you're studying English. It's not your study in English, it's
just books. You're writing essays and you're learning like literary theory. There's no like you're not like wow, I'm really forging my own path. It's like no, no, no, So how does it work? Are there classes in Gallaton that you can take? Or because you're in Galaton you get to kind of select classes from all the different schools. You can select classes like I took like weird graduate courses
in psychology, like my last semester um. But and then I was taking like I was in like a weird I was in a bunch of programs where you like couldn't get in unless you were in that specific program. But like if you write an email and say, like I go to Gallatin, they like the professor is impressed or something which is psycho they have to like they just have to listen to you the required by law or whatever. And so it's the Gallatin school of individualized study.
And you didn't name your own major, right, Yeah, what was your mine was? I think mine was psychoanalysis and early modern anti theatricality. Oh my god, explained what that last part means. So there was like there was just like a lot of there was a like a backlash too theater um and there were like people that saw
theater as like feminizing men um. And so I looked at like Marlowe and Shakespeare in there, I looked at their writing, and I looked at ways in which they were I don't even know, this is so so crazy like that I did this or like it was so bullshit, But like I tried to look at the writing to figure out like passive way that they were like fighting back against this like backlash, so like by it would be stupid things like oh, like setting the play in
Venice instead of in London. You know, like that is a technically like a you know, passive aggressive way of getting back at like something like whatever societal agricultural force was happening. It was all bullshit, but I thought I was, so I don't I don't think it is bullshit. I mean I think like like large, like I think someone
like me who I was just thinking. I was thinking to myself, how could you be eighteen years old and literally think I'm going to do something that's this because I literally was like I was like going to school and I was like I was in Liberal studies for my first year, and I was just like, yeah, I'm probably gonna do broadcast journalism. I probably want to do what yet does. And literally it's like you were like, I'm actually even though the world. That's not even what
I did. Though. When I first went to college, what was Because I went to Purchase first. Yes, I was in the conservatory there, so hello, that's tough one, but it's a good school. We made a transfer, but I well, I dropped out of college like two weeks before my sophomore year, which was a crazy time. And then I had to reapply to colleges again and I took it was so crazy. I was living in flat Bush. I took the A c T at a Catholic school in Flatbush.
And when I was like nineteen and I was surrounded by these like sixteen seventeen year old boys, and it was me, this like white, nineteen year old hipster taking the act in Flatbush at a Catholic boys school. Yeah. I was like, perfect, cool, this is what my life is right now. And you were like, I think I want to go to Gallatin. So but then you get you got into Galts. What do you have to do to get into Galton to like prove that you're going to be able to Like God, I have no idea
what it just happened. I was just like, I am a gay into didn't mind. And then they were like, can you do something around anti theatricality? Exactly? We're looking for someone to do something around anti theatricality. Um, did you ever run into the person whose major was happiness?
He was famous at the school. There was someone in Gallatin who's major was There were so many people at Gallaton who like thought that they were like I am the quintessential Galton student and look at who God knows where they are now, you know, I mean truly like, but just hearing you say the person who majored in happiness was famous around camp. He was a campus celebrity. I don't know who that. I think the famous one was the guy who studied evil. I hadn't heard about that.
What the fun the famous I mean the famous Gallatin student was like fucking Ashley Ols or Mary Kate Olson, right, I mean literally Mr Rooney was in Gallatin I think because of the flexibility, so she could get cater to her schedule exactly. Um. And also didn't Emma Emma her I need. Didn't her money go to else? No, she went to she went to Brown, but then she probably transferred. Well,
I don't know. I never really, I never really Like, here's the thing, saw any of the celebrities that were discussing. I saw James Franco once and I couldn't believe his boots. My celebrity whatever, my celebrity setting was just Malcolm Gladwell at BOBS. I was like, Wow, a celebrity. It's like such an asshole. I feel like I was not good at college. I was not. I don't think any of us were good at college. Some people some people are
were good at college. I feel like it's the same thing like if you were good in high schools peek, and then it's like that's it. The rest of your life is like, um, you know, just living in the memory of that. What what? What? What do you mean? What I was? Um, I just wasn't a good So I was a chemistry major, and I was. I graduated with the B A instead of a B S. And most people in the program graduated with the B S because it was like they maintained a certain g p
a they took certain classes. I was a B A because like, I didn't take like I just took shitty classes and I never went to class and I never I never did well in exams. Like I was just not a good on a on an academic level, I was not good. Kind of hard to believe, though, I find it. You're so smart, but like I truly was bad. Well being so smart and then being a good student.
I think it is like, I think you have the most academic potential, probably of anyone I know, and but I understand that knowing that which I think you do know and also having skipped class a bunch, I get you saying you weren't good at knowledge. That's what I'm saying, Like I feel like I'm not. I don't sound smart often, but that's also because I don't care like I don't care. I try. I think I have chosen to be like a poop poo dumb comic from my whole life, so
like it doesn't matter. But when I was in college, I wanted to get straight a's because I thought I was going to go to grad school, so I thought I needed to, like, you know, be really good. Was the endgame for you, like academia stuff. I wanted to be a therapist. Great, yeah, oh my god, when did that change? Well, I was like working in a research
lab that like actually sounded it was really cool. Like I would watch videos of married couples fighting about their problems in their marriage, and I would watch them talk about their problems in their marriage before this like intervention, the thing that we were studying, and then after this program that they took. It was like a self study course on marital counseling from these couples. It was also
also taught them like childcare. And then also we were like in the school of dentistry at n y U, so like they told taught them like weird dental care stuff too, And so I would look at the fight before the intervention and then afterwards, and then I had this like rubric that I would use to decipher whether or not they've been it's an improvement or not. So I would like turn this qualitative data into like numbers. Great, that's interesting that you would think. But then you're, oh
my god, these these marriage fights are so boring. Okay, oh my god, that's the thing. You think it's going to be serving your drama juicy, but then it's like, I wish you would open up, and then there would be like ten minutes of silence afterwards where the guy would be like, yeah, you're right. When the conflict is you don't open up. You have to imagine what you're
going to watch or somebody opening up. It's not like them being like when you fucked my sister, I was so ruined, Like it's not that all, and I wish for that. Oh my god, did you ever get anything fun? Oh my god? Once. But I don't think. I don't think. I think he's allowed to say if he doesn't name them, but just don't maybe, But there was one that was really really juicy, and I was like, oh god, where are you guys? I always think I think the really
juicy couples are probably the ones to suffer the most. Well, the thing is I think I think that like we forget that, like this is gonna sound insane, but as
such dynamic people, we have more dynamic problems. And when you're basic problem, I was gonna I was gonna say the exact opposite, where it's like as we get older, you know, or not interesting what I'm saying, we are are problems just flatten out across everybody in our where it's like I hope so too, where it's like this is just every marital problem now, where every relationship problem might have a similar thing to where it's like, well he wants his alone time and it would which is
boring stuff because it's so normal. I don't know. Well, actually I am thankful I did it because I learned like really practical things to help with like fighting, and like the thing is the like secret for all, like marital resolution is like slowing things down like to a glacial pace in conversation, like you have to be you have to take hours to like talk about a single issue and you have to be extremely extremely slow. Yes, like a podcast almost, but that's no, that's brilliant, that's yeah,
that's really good. So if you're listening on your struggling struggling down by honestly, that is because I feel like when Henry and I used to fight, like it was when we would have arguments, it kind of was like, WHOA,
how did we get here so fast? And I think it's like you want to be like, you want to be like about this, but when this just bring up so many things that you're like you don't even remember anymore because you can mention something where like you the other person sucked up, but then you're focusing on that, but then they're focusing on the thing that you know you sucked up that, so each of them thinks like
they're a victim, and they might be right. But if you're gonna, you know, think that way, then you're not
going to do anything and nothing's going to happen. I feel there's also always an instinct in any kind of argument to win the argument, and so I would find that sometimes, like when I would have tough discussions really with anyone, We'll say relationships, but It'll be clear to me that I've done something wrong, but I've already begun this game of trying to prove that I'm right or that I didn't do something wrong, or that actually you did something wrong and that's the reason why I did this,
And it's becomes this thing of like whoa. Slowing it down would make you ask yourself, like why am I being so defensive? Why can't I just own up to what I've And it's not even that hard to just drop it, not to drop it completely, but to like just to like release that and just like okay, actually, let me just take a minute to like recalt, liberate and just like get on your level. Do you think that conflict is important in a relationship. Oh, it's not
whether or not it's important. It's like it's gonna happen. It's not like I mean, I would say, if you don't have any conflict, you're lying, Like you clearly have conflict, but you're like you're just ignoring it, or you are like in denial. Damn. Yeah. Henry used to say that. I was like, I don't like fighting, and he'd like, well, it's important that we sometimes have arguments because we have to get to the root of what's going on. And I was like, well, I don't like it, yeah, but
you have to have to have to fight. When Peter and I first started dating, we Peter is my boyfriend. We we love I love Peter too. We better let me say something. It's really culture. You better love your boyfriend. But we would fight like we we would. Well, I think it was also kind of like we're both like fiery, we both have like strong opinions. What is your astrological sign. I'm a Capricorn, so I'm stubborn apparently, and Henry was a Capricorn. Henry is a Capricorn. He's still with us.
And what element is that Peter is he's a Virgo, which is I don't know whatever. You don't care about this, well, I'm sure, Well, yeah, continue what you were saying. But we would we would actually fight more like when we first started dating than we do out We had like we would have because we would be like and it wouldn't be fights. It would be like you can't say that to me, or like you can't speak to me
that way. That's great because you we would like or like little things that would be like rules that we would set for each other. And then like I think because we just like listened now we don't really fight, and I don't know, it's kind of I think it's kind of rare to see that or maybe maybe not, I don't know, but you're setting up if you're if you're doing it early on it. What's nice is that it might just set up like a model for what
this looks like. Yeah, and it's not that it's like, well, nothing's going to be as bad as that, but it's also you you're you understand well, we were like getting to know each other. Yeah, okay, so it was like and so wait do you like you don't have to get too into detail about what those early fights were about, but if it was something like you can't say that to me, he would say, like jokingly, things like oh you're such an idiot or something, and I'd be like,
you can't say that. And if somebody, if somebody heard you say that, and this is so horrible with Peter. Here is this He's gonna be like, people are gonna think I'm au no, no, no, really sweet, that's really really, really a good person. And this was just something you know, like sometimes you'll say to a friend like, oh, you're such an idiot, But to me, I was like, you can't do that to somebody. And I think I was really clear. I was like if somebody heard you say that. Yeah,
it would be embarrassing, right of course. Yeah, That's the best way to frame it is like it comes at a cost to you to do what you're doing, and like the best simplest way to just catch all everything is just to be like, you're embarrassing your exactly that strong chills chills. It gave me a chill when you said that and you looked in my eyes and you did you did that. I did the gesticulation gesticulation, and it made me shake. It made it, in fact, made
me shake. That's like my favorite thing when I'm able to do that, when I'm able to like, I remember this one when I was in acting school, I had I said this. We had this final moment my freshman year where we were all sat around in a circle and we said things to each other love. I wish that was life. I wish there was just circles and talking. Oh my god, I said this one thing to this guy and he was like, I don't know, God, I can't believe this is what this is what so cringe.
But he was like, Joe, I just I just don't I just don't think I've ever moved you. And then I looked at him and I said, this was a lie, but I just said it. I was like, I don't know when I'm not moved by you. This is this is in class, this class. And then the teacher no, no, you did go to E W. Bisch. But then the teacher was like, stop everyone stop. Did you just feel bad? The air changed in this purchase? Purchase? Come on, make that purchase. I know, right, that's so good. I know
it was probably. Here's the thing though, like sometimes people like, okay, so in being involved in comedy. Now, I think that a lot of people look at that and I think maybe it's like more a projection thing, but they say they're all scared of being vulnerable, you know what I mean, Like it's this thing, like this thing of like you
never want to be real. But it's like and it makes me say, like, I also don't think that's true, because I think one of those vulnerable things you can do is get up on stage and like expose sense of humor. So all we do is be earnest on like this exactly whatever. I don't think it's there's been a shift. But you know, also even if you are like you know, lying or putting up a front like that's still a part of who you are. You're creating that.
That's like, that's a part of you. It might not be the most like vulnerable week you know, part of you, but it's something that you believe in that like, this is what I want to put as like my identity in this moment. And they're not crying. Doesn't mean that you're not vulnerable. But that's and I think like some people who would have that criticism about comedy would think they'd be moved by something like what you just described.
But we're now able to sit here and unpacked the fact the last you didn't even really mean it when you said that, and yet this man was like the energy and and you're kind of sitting there probably in the back of your mind being like, WHOA, that's crazy that they were receiving it this way because it wasn't genuine.
I mean, yeah, it wasn't genuine. I mean it was it was just me wanting to be like to have gravity tasks, like in the moment, I just wanted to make the choice that felt like I was in like in some kind of moody thing, which is what I don't know A lot of acting schools like that, just like you're kind of like brainwashing yourself. It's acting school
mixed with that particular time. I think it was two thousand nine nine, like the eight Like just remember this, at least for me, like what felt peak culture at that time for me was like fucking Animal Collective, Like oh, like wow, stars, um, you know, fucking Connor Oberst Like that was like there was this whole framework of like being so emotionally tortured. That was like cool. I think that's being nineteen. I really think I should agree. I
think part of it is like that age totally. I'm not saying that's yeah, that was like specifically, my people are going through that literally right now. I think they're trying so hard to be um poignant, and I think like also trying so hard to prove your talent. And also I was actually just sitting here thinking about it, and in an acting school, if you actually were able to project that feeling of being moving, you did perform that, and if it was successful for those people, active shifted
like I did it. You know you want the award and that I guess. Yeah, I mean, but it is so strange, like the things that they teach you in acting school as like because when you when I mean, at least now that I'm a comedie, I feel like part of why I like comedy more than acting is that like you have like a little bit of distance, which is like good, you have like a little I mean. And then there might be some people who are like why would you want distance? Don't you want truth or something?
And it's like not yeah, or like it depends on the medium. Like first I guess for like whatever for stand ups, if this is such a lazy way to box, like just compartmentalize this, but like for stand ups, like that is what they're seeking is truth through an observation. For if you're doing like a Gordon, or if you're doing like a character, or if you're writing a sketch, that's like it's something that is somewhat removed from what you're trying to say. It's being couched in something else.
I don't know, that's that's like not exactly an accurate I feel that this whole thing of like people who are like people who are critical of comedy, it's insecurity. It's it's them just being like unable to um understand how to be funny purposefully, you know what I mean.
It's it's and it's that's what I think. I mean whenever I experienced like trying to do comedy with actors at school, like for example, like we were in paper Roulette, like which was our sketch group, and that was like half people who had just done straight up acting and half people and like me and Sudy and you who had been in the comedy groups and had no experience
really on stage. And the fusion of that was very interesting because when you ask someone who has just purely been an actor to do comedy, the insecurity that comes out is so like profound, like and it's it's so it's such fear and they it's incredible to watch someone who's been deep be trained in like Shakespearean classical acting be scared about landing a joke and feel the pressure that comes with like being compelling on stage in this way,
and it's like, I'm of two minds about it. It's like a how could you have been through all What a waste to have gone through all of this years of an expensive training and then feel self conscious when you get on stage with certain material and I'm not saying self conscious ever really goes away. But it's like you should feel comfortable performing text no matter what it is. You should not have to think too hard about like timing of fart queue exactly like you know, and then
at the same time by the same token. I also think that kind of means like acting training is not necessarily at all the only way to become good at that. I think it all works really still fashion, it's really
old fashioned. It's like so out of touch with like the experience of actually trying to act in the world, like me being able to cry when I'm upstage right, because that is like the most vulnerable location on the stage floor for me, is like the last possible thing that I should be spending four months trying to do, Like I should be learning how to the fucking weight tables,
you know what I mean? Or like I don't know I mean, And I'm sure that's like a cliche thing to hear, like I'm sure everybody who's an actor knows that now or whatever, but it is it does feel kind of like acting training programs are kind of like huckster, Like, yeah, you know what I mean. Well, I think the people
that make decisions about how those schools are run. Don't necessarily super care if everyone in that studio um is successful in the industry, because I think that literally, like like with something like experimental theaters at what some people do four years about studio and they've never acted once on camera and then they have a problem getting an agent, or they have a problem doing a commercial audition or even understanding how to behave on camera, And it's like, wow,
could you have gone through a four year program and then try to expect is that ever promised? Though? You think, what do you mean? Like the people who run these programs and they're not advertising this as a thing of like, well, by the time you get out, you'll be successful, right, No, not,
it's not your right Yeah. And also like when we were at n y U, like there was that huge like performance art boom, like with Marina Abramovich, Like everyone who was at the experimental theater and was like, I don't need to be on SVU, I can be And
it's like, yeah, I guess you could. You're also making that decision to try to be quote unquote Marina Abramovich at eighteen, and you will feel And I just think if we were all being like, if we're all actually looking at this like trying to have a career, which if you're going to a uh university that costs upwards of let's let's take n y U out of it. Let cost upwards of a K. And when all of a sudden done, which is what these things cost, you
should try to be professor, should have professionally prepared. And I don't think that doing four unless you're extremely an extremely privileged situation, doing four years of pure just only only only theatrical training and expecting to make that a professional career, I think it would be it would be better for everyone if we just gave a more well rounded thing, Like everyone that goes to acting school should have an on camera class at least a class just
like experience what it's like to try to replicate the professional experience, just for a little while, because it makes me sad to know that, like, I mean, come on, almost everyone we went to school with, I'm gonna say, of the people aren't doing it anymore, or like sad. Even class like a business class that even learn like like self promotion, like branding, branding, whatever, you know, like those things are really practical things that it's that thing.
I sorry to relate it back to this, but like that BuzzFeed article about burnout was this the one was it buzzed? It was BuzzFeed. It was like this huge thing about how like how millennials are the burnout generation? Like and it's because so here's the thing. It's like, you're what you're expressing is like it's a shame that a program doesn't prepare you in a fully holistic professional
way once you're in the industry. Like is that also I don't know the sense of obnoxious, but just like go with me, Like, is this also that thing where it's like our generation is a product of this mentality of well, our parents were promised a great life and retirement if they as long as they got a good education, went to college, went to vocational school, whatever, um. So if you do if you do A, then you will
get outcome B and that is a good outcome. And so that what they passed down to us was well, if you take piano lessons, if you go to like tennis camp, if you if you go to s A T. Prep and get into a good college, then you will be set for life. And that is not true that
or that promise was broken on our our generation. And so is it that same thing where it's like, um, you, well, if you come to tish and if it's one of the best and you and you're in one of the best acting programs in the country in the world, Um, then like you should be a working actor by the time you come out. Like that is also a false right well with any artistic endeavor, totally totally, But our generation is used to this idea of if I do this, then I will get that, which is not a volunte
is true. And also like your trajectory changes so dramatically, like whether you like it or not. And so to be so pigeonholed so early is such a can be such a disaster down the line. And I mean people usually you know, are adaptive and figure it out, you know, you know, would they do whatever they need to do to like make a life for themselves, I think. But like it is so crazy that like that you can have such a such a like heavy decision be forced
on you at such a young age. And that's I guess, like when in reading this article, it's like it's so sad to me that we are still in this kind of like situation where at eighteen you make a decision about where you're going to go to school and spend this exorbitant amount of money and like make this kind
of career decision. I mean the majority of people I know and I'm not even I'm taking this even out of people that pursued acting like went to school and didn't even know the many different kinds of careers they could have. How are they going to go at eighteen years old, when they're not even a fully formed person and decide I'm going to spend this insane amount of money to make a decision about my career. I mean,
I mean I knew. I grew up with a girl who she went to Towson University, also not cheap to go be because she liked the area and like the school to be um an elementary school teacher. And then when she graduated, she had a breakdown because she didn't want to do that. And it's like, I don't know about you guys, but where I'm from, it's like there were so many teachers and it's such an easy thing to say that you want to become because you haven't
figured it out. You don't figure it out in high school. So you said you're gonna do this thing. That's nice, and they say and the guidance counselors, no shade, but they say, I can make that work. That's easy for me. I've done it before. And they send you off and it's like incredibly hard to get a job in that field. And also that is just because you see that so many times, because you went to a school. That doesn't mean yes, it's so different, and it doesn't mean you're
going to be good at that. And I think, I'm sorry, but I went I went to public school. I think there's a lot of bad teachers. I mean I had a lot of great teachers, but I had also had a lot of teachers who were right out of college clearly and just put notes on the board and sat and drank their coffee while we copied it down. And I think it's all kind of cyclical and sad, and it's it. It comes from us being forced to make
these big decisions so early. I just think we need to really re examine the whole thing of like shipping kids off to school to make this big decision and spend the kind of money that we're spending. Well, like a lot of people are like, well that's why in Europe, like like people go to vocational school and all that. And I think the reality is like you can make
we can make a bunch of different changes. But like it's a symptom of life to be like thirty years old and be like what the fun doing, like no matter what you do, and so like it would be nice if we had more options than like here you go, You're about to like stomach of dollar dead, like you know, and it's just kind of like it just sucks a little bit. What did Peter major in? He studied history. He studied like Germans German history, or he studied history
in general, but like he focused on like German history. Yeah, I love It's funny because like he loves history and knows a lot of history and do not give a shit about history. But when you have a crush on Joe's boyfriend and you have to stop. Okay, Honestly, when I was tripping on as I kept looking at Peter and Joe and I was like, beautiful, these are the
two most like inside and out, most beautiful people. I mean, while we're like sweating, I'm looking back at our photos that I'm looking back at the photos that we took during the trip and I'm like, we all look in insane, But you guys actually took that one really good picture on the beach. Oh yeah, that was actually it literally made me say to our but like, what was remember that moment? Wait, we just have to his friends on the beach. That's the picture. I just have to walk
through this moment with Joe. We this was like on the down swing of the of the Okay, well, first we start, we start the trip on the beach during the day and it was full on psychotic episode for each of us. For each of us just like what And then we go back into the house and we hang out in the pool, which was also harrowing. Also harrowing, but then the sun starts to set, and let's go to the beach and look at this at the nature.
And so we go. We walk out to the beach and at this point, the cloud it was a cloudy disk, beautiful thing in the world, most beautiful apocalyptic thing where it was high tide and they had literally moved the house inland, like a hundred feet inland. Because like at the beginning of the day when we were on the beach. This house was like on these beams and these weird scaffold, this weird scaffolding was around it, and we were like, oh,
they're doing something to the house. That's funny. Um. And we were like, we set our towels down in front of it. And then by the time we come we went back in the afternoon, it had moved fifty yard and we were our minds were blown. We were like, oh my god, nothing is real, like this house just literally moved. And then we're screaming. And then we go we go to Loti when you watch the sunset on the other side of the island. Um. And then we
walked back and do you remember the swan? No, sorry, I'm sure I will show you a picture when I took a picture of us, Joe, would you remember this. The sun was setting, it was like a blue it was blues and purples everywhere. And then we walked back to the house and there was just a single swan floating in the water by the boats, and all of us you include remember that now, screaming freaking out that. Immediately afterwards, we also saw a mother cat with her
whole litter. Yes, yes, we were like being bombarded by a nature. This is the swan. You remember this swan. It's literally a b it's and we were all screaming like, oh my god. Look. We were like, oh my god, that is not a basic picture of a bird I've ever seen that. It's a goose and it's kind of far away. It was not even like, it's not a swan, it's a fucking goose. And it's fine, it's a goose, but they'll post a picture of this normal. All of us believed it to be a swan. You I swear
to God, Joe, I guarantee I started this conversation. You have seen a peacock on his first after a peacock, duarantee it was a fucking rat. It was me, Joe, Max, Max, Peter, Henry, Joel can booster all of us just like freaking pointing, screaming, our minds are being blown by the swan in the water. Fine, it was a goose, but to us it was it was beautiful. It was beautiful. But maybe it's a beautiful goose. It's just it might have been another like freshman year
circle acting moment of me putting it on. Honestly, yeah, fuck, do we still do we still do this? Don't we do what this freshman year performance performing do? Um? Yeah? Sometimes you know you just gotta have a little gravitas. That's yeah, fine, we do. We do it all the time on this On this we like fake gravitas where we just like push, we lean into like, well we have to serve this idea of what people think of you know, I don't know, is that crazy? Um? No?
I mean sometimes I'm like, well I better say something oh good, insightful or good you know, Well, I don't know. I don't. I feel like I don't ever pressure myself to say something good and insightful because I don't think that's why people come to this store. No, but people often, like people often love comedy. Like I feel like this is a very old fashioned comedy thing where be like laughing laughing and then like the truth. Yeah, Like it's just like it's like like that stupid thing about like
a spoonful of sugar makes the medicine go down. Yeah that's true. True. Yeah, yeah, everyone think about it. What if the medicine is like something that's wrong, like you're saying something that's stupid or like did you change new parpins? I didn't know. I would say, don't go. Really, Okay, I love I live for m blance but here's the love. I love be Wishaw actually is crush I have and he actually has. He has a really good moment in the movie where his character kind of has like a
little bit of a breakdown. Um, and it was really good acting. And I was like to come out at the closet nor Golden Globe a very British scandal, yes, very English scandal, very English scandalum. But he I would say, don't go see Mary Poppins. I've been calling it Mary Poppins Revenge. Don't go see Mary Poppins Revenge, because the first twenty minutes are like, yeah, we're in the world,
it's fabulous. Um. But then there's like a whole middle hour section which is like, holy sh it, is it like this is when they're in there in the bowl? Like what happens during my pop And that's that's the question, that's the big question. And you know what, no one knows. No one remembers because you remember her floating in on the umbrella. Yeah, when she gets there to the house, there's these kids, there's a chimney sweep there's a mirror gag,
there's very merry. There's very little conflict. I would and there's a lot of conflict in this, but it's kind of like dry and and so literally what happened, it's the first the whole middle hour, all of that too, was like, oh my god. And so I literally got off and went to the bathroom, checked my phone, came back. It was the end of Meryl's part. I completely missed Meryl. And then the last thirty minutes gets good, like and
I actually was crying. There's the whole this whole thing with balloons and picking a balloon and flying in the air and finding her inner child. And I was like this, I get. I can get on board with that. And I am a crier. I cried frequently at films me too. I love to cry during a movie because because I'm like, there it is my humanity. Yeah, it's so, it's so great. So this is why I come to the movies. That's
why I never crying. I think I think I'm dead inside because they think I've done asked that too many times. I think that you it's the thing. When you're obsessing about it, it will become true. So don't obsess about it. You've done ASCID twice, parents generation did ascid daily. That's yeah, you're right. We have friends that have done an approximately nine hundred times in one year. It's like you're just Henry um and he is the better for it, absolutely
um and we love that. Okay. So um, wait, we have to ask you the question because and you know it's been floating around, but we must have the question. Now. You must ask the question you I've been asking lately. You ask Okay, So this is the question that we ask every single guest. And we asked the guest what was the culture that made you say? Culture was for you?
This is defining pop culture in your young life that you can look back and say, oh, that's kind of why I am the way thinking about this because I was like, there's like a few different answers and you
can give them. I think one of them was when I saw a Blue Man Group, because I remember watching Blue Man Group like as a boy, and there was a moment where they took out these toilet paper guns and they shot that audience with toilet paper and they kept going and I remember thinking to myself, this is possible. We can do this and it's the most mainstream thing I know. But at the time, I was like, this is out there. You know what that is? Et w
It's crazy how it is mainstream. Everything about it screams that it's not. It's so unusual. It's so unusual. It's so avant garde there, it's cutting it. I've seen it twice. I've seen it an Astra place, and I've seen in
Universal Orlando. Yeah, yeah, I love that you selected to see it in Universal or Its just like years ago and it was like it was like part of the part of the hotel deal we got was like and you can see Blue Man Group is a huge theater there that doesn't so you have to imagine across the country and probably across the I would imagine it's international all the time, the most successful in China. Forget it, people fucking fly if there's something like primordial in each
of us, as a blue man's a blue man. And did you ever think of like auditioning to be a Blue Man? I think you'd might have crossed my mind. It might have crossed my mind. But I think I'm too tall. I think they don't. They always have like a tall one they're all very tall, you know, you know, do you know Branson Reese? Yeah, okay, so no, he auditioned to be a blue Man, and I think you
would think of him as a perfect blue Man. But they told him that he was too expressive because you have to think, like if you do really anything a lot with your face, like it's going to really explode off stage. And because of the way the nature of that makeup, like you could just literally look to the
side and it reads to the whole audience. They told Branson Rees he was too expressive to be a blue many imagining now like the gay man in charge of all of the artistic choices of Man group, who's like, yeah, you know not you yeah, that's a blue man. No not, we need that reality, We need blue Man. We need like an American idol for Blue Man Group. And the judges are Ico Singer Um and three others Fantino to
Rice Merl Ginsberg and Jenny McCarthy. McCarthy. That's two judges from the Mass Singer and two judges from from you know what. Courtney Cox she should host, she should host, yes, And David Arquett it should be a parent trapping when we try to get the back together. They won't they Um, okay, is there besides the toilet paper, Yes, the toilet paper. And then this was another one. I thought like, this is so stupid, but I have this like memory. I think I was probably an infant. It's like the first
memory ever I have in my life. And it might be like a screen memory. Well it is a screen memory, but it's like I have like this print in my mind of like me on the floor looking at a vase and I'm like, I'm looking at this and I am like, oh, wow, that is so beautiful god. And I'm tiny, tiny, tiny because I'm looking up at a vase from the floor and it's like it has like it's like a silhouette kind of because the sun is
like going past it. But I remember looking at the image of this and being like, wow, that is so beautiful. And it was the first time I've ever been like wow, looked at like the beauty of something. Yeah, you appreciate the aesthetic of something a back lit vase. That's that we've never had something like this. I mean the combination of a back lid face and and that's that's that's the Gallapon school of individualized study. That's why. Yeah, that's me,
that's you, baby, that's me talk. Okay, can we all go around the table. I've been thinking about this, Okay. I love that I just called this a screen memory. Yeah, is this a common thing? I don't know if a psychoanalytic idea. So it's like that it's like a well usually it's like related to trauma, but okay, I literally have one of those. But it is a it's a visual memory that is preserved as like a single image in your mind that holds like a lot of psychic
content to it. But like does it matter where? It doesn't matter if there's not that much action going on, Like, well, would you look for you? It's you looking at this face? Yeah, and like that is that's pretty static. Yeah, that's great because mine is something somewhere where I'm just sitting on the kitchen floor. I'm like four years old and I'm playing with something but I'm looking down. This is insane. That sounds insane. It just sounds so abstract and like
who cares? But it's just me looking at the door to our basement and that's it. There's nothing, there's no other detail. But it's so livid, not lived lucid. Vivid. Livid means lucid and vivid culture. Lucid and vivid. That doesn't mean angry. I mean, okay, so that's mine, what's yours? Okay, So my parents really never fought. They're there, and I don't want to like say this and qualify them to all the listeners as parents who fought or have this
kind of relationship. But one time, I think I was literally like three years old, I remember sitting in my living room on the ground and my parents were having an argument. And my mother, Katrina Rogers, who is not like she is not she doesn't fight, she flipped our kitchen table. She took that kitchen table and went booth and it was like, I've never anything like it, and I just remember looking at it and I'll never forget it. And literally, my mother has never done anything like that.
In the twenties five years I since I remember this happening, but I think it is like a trauma record because it was watching something happened that was so out of the ordinary, and I will never forget it. And I'm not even kidding. Nothing has ever happened like that ever since, isn't it crazy, like the threshold for trauma. Yeah, and I was truly a toddler, and I remember it's it's imprinted. Yeah, I have a lot of I have a lot of parental fighting. Yeah, I had one of those two. But
I just remembered I was traumatized once. Because I was traumatized. I was in line Pretzels. I was probably five. I was very, very, very young, and there was this girl who was wearing like a spaghetti strap like black top, and she had like a lot of eyeliner on, and she was, you know, a teen, and I was looking at her, and she was with these two boys, and she reaches into her like bra and she pulls out a cigarette and she had this look on her face
of like pure mischief and wrong doing. And I remember looking at this and being like, I'm alone now watching this evil thing happen, and I am so scarred by like the humanity, like the side of humanity, like watching this person do this wrong act. And I was so like it was so I mean, like, you know, it was nothing, but at the time, I was so affective.
I was so scandalized. It was really it really, if you were to eternal sunshine yourself, like you know what happens in the movie is that he like does he hides her in his childhood memories, right, it's right, and so it's like him being bathed in the sink by his mom. I feel like that is like something where if you were to go back and like erase stuff, or if you were to couch, let's say you were a good eternal sunshine like one of your exes, like you would hide that person in that memory of of
the Wetzels Pretzels. Sorry, I don't know where I'm going with this. I just this. This girl looked just like Avril Levine, pure mischief and pure mischief. She was a star. It was Avril. I feel like it might have been It's like the the you know, the timeline totally. She would have been roughly thirty, yes, exactly. She she is like fifty years old now, which I love. Would she's an older woman older? Um wow, do you seek aut when's the last time you saw blue Man? Honestly, because
you can go at any time. I could go. I walk by that, you know, the aster place. That's the shitty place to see it though. I'm sorry, no shade, But if you're gonna go, you gotta go to Orlando. Stop and Matt for people listening, for people who work there who listen. Matt is lying, it's a bit. I'm a kidding. It's just a smaller space. And I like to enjoy my my content with a large number of people, exactly.
And if you are in Blue Man and you are listening, reach out to me, maybe a couple of comp tickets, you know. Of course I could get on board with that. I also can see you doing it like once a week. Like I don't. I don't want to. I don't want a lot of your time. Doesn't want you to be of course pursuing the comedy. And but but I think it's probably easy to pick up. Although here's the thing with those balls on each other's mouths and ship the paint to the paint and the drumming, right, what's the
deal are they? Is there a trick going on? Or are they really catching these balls in their mouth every time without fail? They forgot about that. That's sick out of me. They have a mouth eye coordination. That was actually now that I remember that, now there was also a sexual component. I think I'm gonna say, like they're all they're probably good at fucking Are you sure? I think all every blue Are you sure before you say that you want to be sure? I'm one hundred to
be good. You know what? Yeah, you're right, they're good at bodies. I wonder how many of the blue men are gay. I wonder if a Blue man would be gay for me. I think, like that's so interesting that, like when we talk about people who are good at sex, like in just judging by the thing they do that's not sex, I bet they could, like I bet that dancer here's a good I don't know, Yeah, you have no concept. Some one time I've spoken about this one. So they tried to like set me up with one
of her friends and I told her. I was like, I just can't picture having sex with them. And she said to me something that always stated with me, And it was like she was like, well, you know, Matt, everyone has sex. And I was like, huh that's true, is it? Well, well, there's a there's a there's a there's a populace that is a sexual. But like if someone's expressing a sexual interest, that means they have a
sexual interest and they have sex. So not being able to picture someone fucking you'd be shocked because they probably fuck Oh god, you're saying you can't. Were you saying you couldn't picture them fucking anybody? I just like, I couldn't see them in a sexual way. Or she was like, well they are a sexual being, but you can see them happen. That doesn't turn you on, Like me, imagining my parents having sex doesn't turn me on, right, But I know what happened. Yeah, it's probably happened a couple
of times. It doesn't mean your parents doesn't mean I'm gonna send them a flirt to d M. Sorry. My sister one time, My sister one time was home and she said that she found condoms in my parents bathroom. And I was like, don't tell me that. Oh my god, that is so insane. I found like when I found a condom in my brother's room, I was like, another, you know, another trauma. That was a trauma. That was
a trauma I found. I found condoms with my parents stoy and it was truly, oh my god, like destroyed me. I don't know why, why do I just like, now that we're talking about parents and condoms, I'm like, don't they just always go raw? Well, that's the thing because I was like, I guess I thought the whole thing about parents was like rossax, that was the whole thing about parents. Um well, I guess like this was like right before my mom went through like the final change.
And I think, like, you gotta be careful because I mean, what if what what if you got pregnant at that would be a tough that would be a tough one, be a tough position to be put in. Forgot about pregnancy. You forgot all about pregnancy. You know, these parents can't just get on prep and do whatever they want. Like you kids, We don't age out of disease. We sure don't. I know. Actually that's there's a lot of cure. It's a real culture number eighty eight. We don't age out
of disease. There's like gonore en cyphilis, and like, you know, yeah, I'm like, wow, I never thought about that. I hope that I keep hoing. I thought you to say, I hope I got basically, I mean, if you were, if you were in our old age to tell me like, oh my god, I don't like I don't know if we'll be in the same home, but like I feel like I'll probably give you a ring whatever in communication we're having at that time, and you say, oh my god,
this just happened. I got Gnaia, I'll be like, yes, bitch. I feel like if we're like eighty eight years old and you tell me you got Gnaia, I'd be like slight. I know SAG is technically like um, a place for elderly, elderly queer people. I feel like we should open up an LGB home. Yes, LGB home, no tea. Sorry sorry, sorry, math you. I think that would be so fun. That's when everyone wanted that, And that's like a sitcom. That's a really good Golden Girls. Golden Girls, I think that
it is. This sounds so chummy and gross and dumb. I truly hope we all end up in the same place when we are Heaven. Heaven is fire island. Swans are how bring it here? But we're on our trip. One of the things that was so like moving was looking at the houses that were abandoned because the shore was creeping up so far. I mean, the whole islands just disappearing. So there are houses that were close to the shore that are that have to be abandoned because
they're just falling into the sea. It's a real thing like that. I think people that I think people like they I don't like to think about it, but I mean even just Hurricane Sandy alone, I can tell you from from growing up there, it took a serious toll on that. I mean, it's it's different now. It looks different, like if you're going to funk up infrastructure, like it will change everything about how that plays functions. So it's I think, I think, honestly, it's got it's got another
like fifteen years. Oh my god, it's so sick fifteen tops. I mean you have to think and not to get all morbid. But it gets worse every year. I mean these and the storms happen with more frequency. Actually, this hurricane season was mild, shockingly and that's with the tragedies that happened. But remember, like I mean the devastating hurricane that happened that happened very early in the hurricane season, and the way I feel was like, oh, obviously this is like gonna be like the way it is like,
this is the beginning of the end. And then after that, to be honest with you, like all things considered, we had a mild hurricane season this year. This pastor you're
saying yes. And that's another thing about like the l train like kind of staying open is it's like the way I feel about it is kind of like, honestly keep it open because you don't want to spend another billions and millions and millions ares fixing it and then just to get what they're trying to do to make it hurricane proof or something, I mean, I guess that would have That's what you would have to like do something really really really really um sound to make it
like a hurricane proof. And that's got to be the next thing you do, because don't just fix it to it to the best of its ability now, because I mean, it'll just get sucked up again. We'll see. What I always imagine is this is so stupid. But I remember seeing once, like after Sandy, one of the things they could do is just put a big balloon in the tunnel and it fills up the whole tunnel with this
balloon so that no water gets down in there. And now then I'm thinking about this, I mean, I don't think it really would work, but like I have to be some kind of balloon. It would have to be a big it would have to be big and thick, filling out the whole hole, and it would be so massive, and then it would be you know, there would be no water damage. I know. Can you imagine that thick? Oh shit? Oh? Can we first of all, can we just say out o um. We had a long discussion
about bottoming before we got on air. Yeah we did. Yeah. Wait do we talk about that? Yeah? That was not on air, but we talked about bottoming, and you know, the preparation that we have to go through, and it's not unlike the L train is not unlike the L train. I mean, let me tell you, by the time your thirty, you've had a couple of Sandies, honey, honey, essentially a real culture. By the time you're that's real cultureber remember a hundred and one one like the Dalmatians. By the
time you've had a couple of Sandies. That's right, That's exactly right. My god. But I just want a Sandy that that stays. You want to Sandy that I want to Sandy that I can get used to. I mean, there's only been a handsome We're about to get a lot of Sandies that we can get used to. I just want to say, you know, you know what, I realized, very few people that I've had Sandi's multiple times that
I've experienced multiple sandies with I have. I've only had sex with the same person more that's only happened like three or four. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I don't know, like no, maybe over share, but who the funk? Am I kidding this or whatever? I've literally talked about everything but I've had My number is very high, but the number of people that I've been with more than once
especially very low. The meaningful I like, I hate just having sex with someone just once, Yeah, because like I feel like that first time, I'm like, nothing never counts. It's going on like who are you? Why are you here? Like you know what, what's up? What's what's up? Who are you? Why are you here? What's up? The three questions exactly. And so I was always like, let's just have a relationship, like to have sex, yes, yes, I
don't know. Sometimes like I'll have a fucking amazing time the first time, and then the second time it's like sometimes I feel like maybe that first time it was so good because we were discovering someone's body for the first time. And then the second time, it's like who been here that I've turned I hang it up. I'm not turned on by the discovery. I always like whoa, whoa,
Like here we go. You know. That's what makes grinder so dangerous for me, Like it's a slippery slope, Like I'm not on it right now because like the thing for me is like finding someone out and then I'm like what does that mean? Because for me it's like the second time, it's like, oh, this is familiar and there doesn't have to be this like learning curve around what is it about you that you just wanted you?
You live in the moment where they where they take their shirt off for the first So I just like, I don't know. I think it's fun to experience someone and then I almost feel like it's a sick o thing. But once I've experienced someone sexually, like we've done it, you know what I mean, Like and yeah, I don't know, I don't know that's interested that that's that's a way that I am. Yeah, well that's beautiful and it's not what I want for myself. I'd like to have a
meaningful relationship. And I'm not saying I haven't but I'm just but it's just like I I realized that about myself when I fully like committed to finding out more. I wish that I could take a page from your book. I wish that it could be more like I don't know, like quicker or something, or like I think, well, I'm not there, Yeah, I'm not there anymore either. I'm just like,
I don't like that. I don't know. It's just I could do that if it's like if it's very very scripted in terms of like this is what we're gonna do, like where are you like that? I like that, let's do that, and then that's that. It depends on what you're looking for. I think, you know what I mean. I think you Bow and Yang are looking for a relationship, and so I think that that's why the concept of just having sex with someone one time isn't appealing to you.
I don't think where I'm at right now, I don't think I'm looking for a relationship. I think I'm looking to have you experiences, you know what I mean. Like, so it just depends on what you're There was probably a time in my life where I was like horrified at the fact of like you know, sleeping with people, bunch of people. But but now it's what you want, uh, can I do you consider yourself like a slut? Um? There was a time when I considered myself us US.
I don't think I ever considered myself a slut, But whenever Studio would call me a slut, I wasn't confirmed. I could understand where she was coming from, but she wasn't, and she was calling you that in like a pejorative way. She one time actually thought about this on the sud I right over. She literally turns to me one time and said, you've sucked every one of my gay friends that I've introduced to you too, And I was like,
I don't think that's true. And also like she said, like like she thinks she doesn't know exactly what I have hooked up with a bunch of people she's introduced me to, or at least because I think it's a thing of like let me put my two gay friends together, which is like that's on her, no, but it's not necessarily bad because I did. I did hook up with them.
I mean it was mutually beneficial for all. But for her to be like, wait a minute, but what it's like that yeah you work, but also yeah, but the thing is like, yes, I did sleep with them and had a great time, and so I guess at the time like to be jokingly called a slut. I was like, yes, why have you? Are you a slut? Me? Yeah, have you been a slut? I don't think. I don't know.
Sometimes I feel like slutty, but and I like that, but then like I don't think in action, like in my life I am a slut, right, I would say that I like have the psychology of a slut, but not the behavior. Are you a slut is the title of that? Are you a slut? But sluttiness is a state of mind? What was that? What was that that? There is a state of mind? That video, that clip of that. There's this girl on Twitter where like some it was a slut march and then like this like
conservative pundit was there and the reporter was there. He's like, what is why are you calling a slut much? You're proud to be a st And she's like, oh, what's her name? Yeah, she's she's so cool. She's so cool. She's like the cool it's an actor, she's really cool. Yes, And she was like, I'm a slut. You're a slut. Your grandma's a slut, your mom's a slut. We're all sucking sluts here. It's like, get over it, like we're
all sluts. It's also like it's not where it's when you say you're not slut shaming, You're just you're taking a word and beyond. Like I've had sex with people like you know what I mean, Like that's that's all. That's all it is. I think looking back, it's like I've been there. I go through periods. I go through periods where it's like I would like to but to be honest with you, sometimes it makes me a little there.
And it really depends who it is, Like now that I know more people, it's like I don't know, there's a thing as like for me, it's like now that I'm like there's more and more people who are like learning who I am, so like I get more people like contacting me and reaching out to me, and so I'm it is this weird thing of like there's all like you know, I'm people floir you know, and you're like, how do I receive this? Are you guys open? We are?
We are open? So then it's like it's on the table, so I mean, but I was like, no, I've just been cheating this whole time. Well, I mean, the thing is, like what I was saying was like the kind of people I'm around on a daily basis are all people that I know, And there's that thing of like hooking up with your friends, which is like many in the gay community are just kind of like we can do this and it's fine. I don't know where I'm out
with that, you know what I mean. It's so it's kind of like and it's it's all about how you want to spend your time and how you want to negotiate that afterwards. Like we were talking with Brandon Scott Jones about this, I was if I had to put a number on it, I've probably hooked up with at some point, like maybe nearly of what of my gay friends. But I also don't think it's that high. I like usually almost every guy that like I've hooked up with
casually I am friends with. Really yeah, that's because like I don't know, I feel like that's part of what's so nice about being a gay guy is that you're kind of like a horny idiot and then you can just move on your friends first and then you hook up with them. Um no, well yeah I've done that. I've had the reverse happened too many times, and I'm like, oh, yeah, wait described that where it's like I'll be dating someone and then it's like, let's stay friends, and I'm like,
I that is healthy. I want to know. And also, you didn't necessarily start start this particular relationship with them because you wanted to be friends, right, Yeah, it's like a validate it's like heartbreak. That's different. And I've definitely been heartbroken by people before, and then like if the opportunity arose where I was going to be friends with them, then it was like, yeah, I guess, Like I guess
I have to. And that's usually only if I have to because they're like in that community that I'm in, right, But otherwise I would avoid them, you know. Yeah, literally some of my closest I mean, like I like Dave and I like started our friendship with a hook up with a hook hooking up, I mean like that's kind of like and so I can you can do both, but it is like a conversation like I won't like I recently hooked up with a friend like within the last six months, and we had I wanted to make it.
I wanted to have a conversation where it was like this, please can't make things different because that that would just I just really don't like tod that. Um. I just it's funny though, but like I'm listening to you guys talk about this, and I'm like, I don't have that same thing, and listen, y'all, um, it's it's not It's just like, it's fine if it's not like that for you. I'm right, that's just not my reality, which is beautiful.
And I also don't want people to because this is another thing I'm sensitive to, which is like the gay community, we kind of decided it's a certain way, or like it's it's widely perceived that it's a certain way. Yes, we're gay, we hook up with each other and that's that. And it's like I've also experienced that not happening, so
I don't think that that happens. I also think it's like one of those things where like the let's stay that same statistic about like drinking college where it's like you you go in and you're like everyone's drinking, but then it turns out that like actually only like of the population and drinking. I feel like it's the same thing with with sex, right and gay men, and because sex is sexy and it's like to put it on this pedestal and it's something that's sold us and it's
something we're supposed to be doing all the time. And you see media where it's like so often in gay media, like like if there's two gay characters, they have hooked up or they've been on a date or something like that. It kind of does give this perception that like that is how all gay friendships begin. And like, I mean something literally the most important relationship in my life is
a platonic friendship. And so we were talking to Brendon Scott Jones about how, like on the show the Other Two that he's on, like there's a platonic gay friendship, and it's so great to see, you know, because it's not really depicted in media. It's really not. Yeah that's true, or if it is, it's like people don't give a ship. Yeah you know what I mean. I want to see more things of like like you know, that's why I really liked the end of Big Little Eyes is because
it was like women a Man Like. The show largely was marketed and perceived as this thing of like women kind of like cat fighting and like it's these rich, privileged white women largely that like are going to like fight, and then what the show actually was about was about how instinctually they had each other's back because of this shared experience. And you know, I would like to see
that represented with the gay community more. I would like to see And that's why I really I really like insecure, you know what I mean, Like you see these like I like seeing things where it's like a depiction of community that is a depiction of capital C community. Yes, yeah, me too. That is so like it's so refreshing to see that because then it's like finally we get to
see something different, Yeah, something real. It feels real, it feels more real, and that is missing where it's like you don't see these depictions of like queer people just being like just coexisting without that thick of a sexual
layer to it. It's just like I mean, there was like Looking, but then Looking was about dating and sex though, you know what I mean, like and and and and I think Looking succeeded on very many levels, but I think like it definitely fell short and that for me it felt very cast and also like I get it, like it was you know what, it's still an important show. I think it was important and and we we scrutinize
it because it it is the only thing. It's it's that thing where it's like people shout on Joy Luck Club when it came out because it was the only thing was meant to represent this experience, and then all every Chinese person turned on it because they were like, well, this is stereotypical, this, this masculine d masculinize is Asian men. It's that, it's this, it's this. It's like, well, you're
pinning all the ship on it because exactly yeah. And I think I think it's like with looking like whenever anyone was like why would you criticize this, It's the only thing we have, it's like, no, there's got to be someplace in the middle, because you have to be able to be critical of art, especially art that represents you and your experience or touts to represent your experience, and also at the same time, it's like appreciate something for what it is and what it is doing, right,
And that's just literally having a discussion about something. You know what I mean, It's like you don't have to get angry. You're like overly protective. Like we can talk about totally these things. We all just need to be Katrina Rodgers, is we need to table? She's doing for the table flip? Now I can't wait. I hope that she I'm trying to think if she's strong enough to flip the table and now I think so side table, Yeah, like a smaller table maybe. Yeah, yeah, I think she
can Flippita for sure. She's a she's a flipper. She's able bodied. Okay, um, I think it's time. It's time for I don't think so honey. YouTube both have a look in your eye like you have. You both literally announced before we recorded that you guys, have you have something? I have one that I think it's like a true I don't think so. Okay, here we go. I think I have one too. It's just it's cooking. And by the way, I don't think so honey, is ours sad? We take one minute to go off on culture. We
are going on tour. You can get buy tickets to us being on tour. Um. We don't have a website. But they are on my website and you can find them online if you Google search. Last Culture is the store. You can do it. You can do We trust you. Okay, this is Matt Rodgers is I don't think so honey. As time starts now, I don't think so honey. When someone says on their story, new post alert, we can see it. Like also, it's like I don't I don't necessarily love this because it's like, girl, we gotta deal
with ambre alert. We gotta deal with alert. I don't need a new post alert. I also just think like, like you know, what if if we can if you post, we could see it. If we're following you, we can see it. I also just think like new post alert, just if I'm being alerted at something, it's there should
be some cause for alarm. I don't know. I just like, and I'm talking about this as someone who like be posting on social media, but I think new post alert is like another level where it's kind of like that's not self aware. You may be a little bit more self aware, and it's usually thoughts that do and the new post alert usually kind of it's never about like new post alert where you can find uh, information from
my show, and I'm not sluching. But it's usually new post alert and it's like a thoughty picture and it's like I've already seen it. I probably already liked to eject off to it, and that's one minute. So I don't know a new postaler and I have a little bit of an issue. I mean, I think they're maybe they're trying to like subvert the algorithm and just be like make sure I get eyes on this, and maybe they're being funny. Probably probably not, probably not, probably know.
And it's like to generalize with the bandon it usually is thoughts and we and we love thoughts and you're an important part of our economy. But like you, I don't have to do that. Most of the time, I've literally already liked the picture because if you were a thought that I follow, you're probably popping up at the top of my Instagram story. Because Instagram is deeply evil. I can't like too many thought photos because otherwise in
my discover page, it's all thought photos. And just like when you go to your discovered page and it's literally all shirtless men, that's when you know you have to seek treatment. Um, but we need them to thrive. I mean, they are, like, as you said, a huge part of our economy. Actually, culture number twenty two thoughts are a huge part of our economy. Okay. I think I have something which is booming, by the way, and I'm so sick of hearing about it, because shut up. Things are
not good things. Things are not good. I don't need to hear that there's more jobs, like you know what I mean, Like that's an I don't think for another time about this is bowen Yanks. I don't think so, honey, on this the episode with Joe Castle Baker, an incredible episode of Last Cultures that we've enjoyed, and his time starts now. I don't think so, honey. Of these recipes that have Asian in the title, and there's nothing fucking Asian about them. There's a mayo and a chicken salad,
Asian medley whatever the fuck. No, my people did not throw almonds into their pork. Okay, I don't know what what Asian? What Asian meatballs are? Okay, just take what Asian tag? What Asian? My ancestors did not toil in the fields during the Colt Revolution in China. They did not wish upon a jade amulet for you to appropriate an entire fucking continental name just so you could sell
and pedal your bullshit granola mick onto me, honey. So listen, if you want to call it something and make it exotic, just like there's raisins in it, I'll be sold. I love raisins. I'm a raisin bitch. Don't call it Asian. That's one minute. I think that was important, and thank you, thank you very much. Just because it has scallions doesn't mean it's Asian. Honestly, what do you think is that? Why do you think they do that to make it seem more interesting, because they can't be like, well, it's
it's a chicken salad sandwich. No, we gotta get clicks. We're gonna call it an Asian chicken salad. We're gonna do a little little things of di con in there. And I would assume whenever if I ever see something with Asian in the title, I would assume as a as a consumer of food that they're talking about, like whatever dressing is on it, or like whatever sauces on it, Like just they're really just projecting an entire culture onto
one ingredient. That's what it is. It's like it's ginger. Yeah, we're doing you know, garlics asia an Asian narrow Can you imagine? That is so insane, it's sucking crazy. Anyway, and that wasn't I don't think so, honey, that needed to be thank you. I think we're getting back into the form you and I because Matt and I everyone else like does amazing. I don't think so. And you and I are just so We've done so many but now but now I'm really like starting to understand how
to get back into the saddle the journey, hero's journey. Yes, thank you, Joseph Campbell, Okay, this is Joe Castle Baker's I don't think so, honey, and his time starts now. I don't think so, honey. People that need to play music during sex even don't even need to, but just like do it anyway, Like what mood? What mood are you trying to set? Like I don't need you to set my mood. If I'm in the mood, I will be in the mood. I don't need Lord to set the mood for me. And if Lord sets the mood
for you, what does that mean about you. Does tennis court make you hot? Does tennis cord make you hard? So? I don't think so, honey, if you are playing, okay, let's say that you maybe not even Lord. Maybe it's something a little more appropriate, like some kind of electronic Like this is not like the moment where you like crack the code and ask for you like where I'm
getting you. I'm getting your head right now, like this is not the moment for that kind of music or even like I don't even know any kind of music all music. The thing I want is to hear breathing and the air conditioner and that's that's one minute. Wow. Okay, I have sucked to Lord, and I find I could suck to the sound four harder lucks on repeat? Is there? Okay, I'm not greatly. Yes, I love Lord. I'm not crying.
A song make you horny, Yes, it really does. Actually, I have to tell you, Joe, I fucking I get extremely horny. Here's the thing that got to me. What about like a frank ocean thing. No, I don't think that's There's no music on earth, D'Angelo that will make me horny. Okay, you're not listening to the right playlist. I have a playlist on my Spotify called L O L and it's my sex playlist, and I will I'll
send it to me. And one time I had sexual someone and they said and after we had sex, they said, that was a great fun playlist, and I was like, that's Joe. I get what you're saying. But I also every every it depends on the context. I think I like to light candles, play some fucking wordless music. Here's the thing, what about music words? The word this music is the worst because the word this music, it's I love this. Um, I'm not cracking the code and sv you,
I'm giving you head. That is a beautiful pull quote from Joe's I d T S a Train. That's really good. But I wordless music is creepy. I don't think so. Yeah it is, but it's more appropriate. I would definitely definitely not choose music with lyrics for songs. If I mean, if you had to have music playing during sex, like at least make it an instrumental. What about like Rocket by Beyonce like that. Here's the thing. Even that are like explicitly sexual, it's like, come let me. Maybe I
don't want to feel that right now. I like the third or fourth time that Henry and I hooked up, like when we first started dating. Oh my god, we actually like on accident one plus one by Beyonce came on and it ended so much to where it was like I think and both of our minds were like this. You know why because when you're playing music that's basically a threesome with that artist, you're having a threesome. Wow, that's are always badimes. I've never very bad. I never
had a free Really. I bet you've done threes I have. Yeah, I've had a few, but not with music Gallatin. That would get a question. I would I would go back to Galaton and study threesomes. I would go back. You would be welcomed with open. I don't know you guys. I think we're all disagreeing about this music thing. I think I'm in between the two of you. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, what music would you play? Um? What would you say? Okay? Let me? I truly this is
pulling out the phone. This is my very basic fun playlist that I have not ever used like an actual I think mine's on iTunes and like it's it's like it's not. Hold on. Maybe I deleted it because I was fully fully ashamed of it. Hold on, hold on to my I did it because my phone, my phone data was full and I can't figure out how to this is? This is, this is so old. I have like I have songs from like the very first XX album, so maybe that's in between lyrical and in general. Yes, yes,
I have like this is so bad. I have Marvin gay please day, Um, I have Dr Dre Explosive. I have but do you see that the oral changes a you are a algae are insane too much like you need someone there to orchestrate it? Then you know, I mean totally can you having Marvin Gay on there is very first thought? I'm saying, this is very first thought. Can I just read someone so bad? I have uh b J the Chicago Kid. I have, UM, I have No Sleep by Janet Jackson. I have Hello by Erica Badou.
I have um Bliss I remember I carry off Rainbow and then like that's and I like Frank Ocean stuff and that's okay. I mean the first song that I saw in mine was Tambourine by Eve, which is shake your tambourine one yourself and which is this is not for section. So I clearly made this one. I was three, and you refused to reveal anything else. Just I just
I just embarrassed myself to so many people. I mean, this actually actually isn't the playlist because I believe it might just be at home on my on my iTunes, like because because I don't know local file like but follow me on and I will be posting because I was like too nervous. Of course that moment of name that's another like like humiliation of naming a playlist. Wait, that's so real, Like what if someone reads my playlist title?
One of mine is called inspired in all caps, and I have my famous one is called Classic Diva whichever one should? What makes a good playlist title? You think that that is outwardly like cool? You have to just not give a ship, just literally not care, just like fuck exactly. I have one called Now and like, I don't know, it's like not so vulnerable, are so vulnerable,
but they're just so performative. Nobody looks at that. No, honestly, whenever anyone somehow I don't think so honey, people who somehow fine what I'm listening to on Spotify and like shot of it. I'm like, get out of my life. Literally, I've been doing this thing where I do post my playlists on my story. Is that a little? Is that a thing? But no, do you guys think it's a thing where it's like I think it might be a degree of like I want to show people how cool
I am. Yeah, for sure, that's healthy. That's healthy. That's a sign of a healthy psyche like like, that's basically the same thing as new post alert, new playlist. No, no, no, no, no, it's it's disgusting, I know, honest, be honest, be honest, No new playlist because you've cultivated You're not a musician. You're not making the music. Yes, you're saying, which is
even worse. It's even why it's different. You're sharing something that you cultivated, and it's not a new post alert, which is you hiring someone to take a hot photo of you. And it's which is also noble and beautiful, gorgeous, and we need you for the economy. Thank you, Never forget, never forget if you want to stop this whole thing with crumble exactly right. Um, I loved this. This is very good. It gave me the tingles, give me the
tangles and Joe gives us the tingles. I mean, clearly, okay, um, oh my god, please check out get real. We Matt and I've both done it with Max Worder. He's They're both so fucking funny. I watched them and I'm like, this is this is all I want to see and it can be all you ever say, can be all you ever see. So um, check them out every month at the spectacle or at a rotating venue every now and then. What is the last thing you want to say for right now to the last culture Just listeners
because you'll be back. But what do you need to say to them that they that they need to know? As a Gallatin School of inewl at the end of all your studies, after everything I learned at Gallatin, I would say, you know, let go, let go, let yourself, find go, go yourself, and then go wow, let go of yourself fine, and then let go and then go and then and then go beautiful two later and why you thank you so much, thank you n y u and thank you so much, and thank you so much.
And that reminds us of a song that we're going to finish as we finished with every song. Every episode we finished with the song thank You next thank You. I'm so grateful for my school. Bye. This has been a Forever Dog production executive produced by Brett bow Him, Joe Silio, and Alex Ramsey. For more original podcasts, please visit Forever Dog Podcasts dot com and subscribe to our shows on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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