"Advanced Actresses" (w/ Tyler Coates)

you are what's the word a birthday boy? A birthday boy? Oh you guys? Um it's it's Matt's birthday today on this day of recording, March five, but this will be released on the March of seventh. Absolutely, Um, Matt, how does it feel to um? Today has been a day of ups and downs? Okay, mostly because of all the culture that's happening. And culture will always take you up and take you down. I think this is our number one most cultured guest that we've had, and in fact

so cultured that it is in their job title. Absolutely. Let's go through the credit spit and we, as the act have also this is another credit we've deemed this person so one of such cultural expertise that they were a judge on our culture war. Absolutely, and they were the essential force, the essential locus of that judging panel, because then you had Michelle Collins and Joe can Boost you who are just Google loose cannons, really just goof off.

But this person just legitimized the whole affair. I would absolutely, I would say that they brought the gravitas. Absolutely, and it's rule number of culture. You got to bring the gravatas. Let's go through the credits. He is the culture editor at Esquire. I never heard of it. Bitch, bitch Esquire. I was like love t Cuba. I was always in US choir boy in my teens and then in college we refused to subscribe to g Q. I do love g Q. Gotta say I love g Q, but well,

I gotta say it. But m Esquire was the one that we got every every month. I feel that they both like talk about being really stylish, but Esquire is really sick. Actually came out with like the actual primers, primers however you want to pronounce it, pre maze um culture editor Esquire. He is also, as you mentioned, former judge at Culture, perhaps future judge of culture. If we do another installment, maybe he'll maybe we'll maybe we'll ask

him back. Maybe maybe. And also this goes you loved him, I loved him and the seminal web series Disappointing Gay best Friend because he taught us that there were other models of gay best friendship. Yeah, you don't have to be supportive. You don't have to be supportive. You can just be like a college day which for real, and apreciate this because you know, we'll get into this because this was around the same time as like, um, that great guy at Second City who did all the what

what what are you doing? That guy who was you just need? What was that Shakespeare? That just like like the gay best friend basically, but this he was. He was the perfect counterweight. I love it to our guest, So please welcome Tyler Coats. Thank you, Hi Tyler here. Do you feel like there's a heavy expectation now that we've called you our most cultured guests? Yeah? I do feel that's cards are stacked against me either way. I don't know. I think the cards are stacked perfectly perfectly.

It's a full house. It's a full house. It's a full house. Do you know poker because we don't know you speak for me like, man, you sound very stupid when you said that, I don't know poke, honey. Do you know poker? I did at one time when I was doing my straight drag in high school. Like Texas hold him, Like Texas hold I even have a poker set deep in the annals of my room, somewhere deep

in the animal. Um, Tyler, what was your what would you say was your most you know, ciss het performative element as a boy growing up in Virginia, Virginia, very tiny town in Virginia. Um, I don't know Dave Matthews band, that's it. Yeah. When I was in high school, no one like they thought it was too weird because I feel like I feel like the Dave Matthews band ship. The window was very small. It was as I don't know. I would I would say it was like early to

late nineties. And I really like that one song you Got Your Ball, you Got Your Chained to me that bug. I kind of think that's kind of beautiful. Yeah, it's a beautiful Lady Burges legitimized it. The wait was it was it was deeply in so much so that I hope that if she had won the ASCAR, they would have just played that the orchestra that as she crossed into me, she walks off crashing to me and she

leaves crime. However, Yeah, yeah, actually I think I read this that she had to ask permission everyone that she used their music, and she published her letters that she had written to all of it. I saw the one about justin Timberley, and then there was another one. I think maybe it was Alanis Morris set someone some female artist. It was UM, but Dave Matthews band. I feel like, yeah, that's that's pretty good. Yeah, like classic rock shit. We

all did that. When I was on the cross country bus to track meets UM, they would all listen to you know, actually this is pretty queer. They listened to Bohemian Rhapsody on repeat and I felt like a part of it. But it was all these straight men like screaming it. And I was like, there's something deeply gay about this. And I don't just mean all of the men, like, are young men orgasmically screaming together to like a what is really a pop hook? There was something else going on,

and it was Queen. It was Queen. I want to say that I put out. I put out a little feeler in my in my Facebook group for my high school reunion. I said, who's gay? Now, Yeah, I saw you post this. No one responded, that's because they're still a shame. I even went to the Facebook group to see that and nothing, nothing except for Robbie Cratic, but he commented was then still am now l O And I was like, high five Robbie. Um. We never really crossed paths that much, but Robbie is out there maybe

at the reunion. Here's the thing. Our class president is nowhere to be found. Oh my god, Zach Glenn. I hope he's doing okay. I genuinely hope he's doing okay. Um, but no one can reach out to him. So then these people are just very haphazardly planning it for like like someone put up a poll that was like what what months were, August, April, like these months that I would never be home for reunions that happen, It's happened.

I feel like they have to be legitized by the class president organizing, and they have to be like around Thanksgiving or Christmas, and so I just don't think it's going to happen. And then I saw one thing where it was like, let's do a picnic in this summer and for those of us who have kids to bring

our kids. And I'm like, Okay, no, I don't. I don't know if I want to go to that then, right, No, I think the odds of me going are sort of fifty fifty because my class president was a close friend of mine that I still am friends with sam And but I don't know what she's doing. If she organizes it, if she gets her ship together, then I'll go because I know that all my friends will be there. But if it's organized by like who the funk knows sure, then I'm not going. Did there wasn't even one. I

don't know. I mean, we're not in touch with it now. I mean, well, I grew up. It was very very small town, so most people stay like, you know, I can go home for Christmas and seasone at the food Lion, I'd be like, hey, you're okay. Food the food line, the food Lion, the food line, like you know the line for the food it's the food lying. Um, we're in Virginia. It's a honey town called Mantras. People. Oh

my parents are both from there. At least two grandparents are from there, Like is an hour from Richmond from experts, like an hour from anything. So you're one of the first to leave montros first. Yeah, my mother went to college an hour away. I went right back. Well, see reminds me of the song Merry Go Round by Casey Musgraves. Absolutely, Um, you know, Mama's hop done, Mary Kay. Brothers have done Mary Jay, Daddy's ho done Mary two doors down? Yes,

keep going Mary, Mary quiet. Contrary, we get boards, so we get married, and just so does we settle in this town the course, Honey, come on on this Mary broken broken, Merry go round and round and round we go stops nobody knows and anything going down. This is Mary Go. This is gorgeous song writing because that corus it feels like it never ends. And that's the whole point of the sci that's the point. I'm sorry, Okay, So are you a Casey Van. I like a couple

of her songs, would you like? I had my country phase in high school kind except for Mare Morris, which we've talked about. What we talked about now Maren's I think Marin's doing the crossover things a little too early. She's too early. Yeah, she should have had one work. I don't know. I'm not telling her how to you know, plan you are and I think you should. I will tell her to lay off the facetown on her Instagram.

She's doing a lot of face too short, too Yeah, like she should have someone doing that for her who knows what they're doing. Clearly doing herself, which I respect, the like authenticity. Sure, she to me is like hyper millennial in a way that's like slowertown, slowertown. Sure, she can't she's in nineties, Mercedes, She's in nineties. She can't do about it. But what a perfect song. Number one song played on Tyler I think this year, Oh good good?

I mean you want to know something like I fully lived got my life to that song, Like it clicked in my head. Well, the first time I heard it was um good friends, Greg has Attack and Dougie Anderson we drove down to Philly to do some canvass thing for the election. This was literally this was on my birthday, two days before the election, November six sixteen. Heard it for the first time, I was like, who is this?

What an amazing song? And then for the whole week I mean for the whole rest of the next forty eight hours, listen to it on repeat. Election Day, I'm like walking over to little field this for this fucking show. We were doing a little field blasting that. And I remember feeling feeling great because I had, like because that tweet came up about remember that tweet that went viral about the Trump cake that was being willed into Trump Tower, about how fucking crazy that Trump bust cake looked. And

I was like, well, he's gonna fucking lose. This is gonna feel amazing, and let me last Marine fucking Morris and my headphones, and um, you know that was my first mistaken She wasn't even really a Hilary supporter. Oh yeah, Because here's the thing. They had married and Casey on a round table get the country girls together, and then just the moderator sort of did them dirty and just

brought up the election, and um, they're like, where's Ron Paul? Like, well, the table goes quiet, and then Casey's like, you know, where's Ron Paul? When they're like, yeah, yeah, where's Ron Paul. But I feel like Marin has like sort of been like I like, she she's rejected the shut up and saying totally, she's a little bit more outspokens. Yes, she's she's she's replacing as the pop cross over. Wow. I

mean that's my predictions a culture expert. As a culture expert, will you do you have any any interest in any editorial about Marin just she needs to work on the face, I think too much. I think there's a whole thing piece in that. I think. And and while I'm happy that she's crossing over, I don't want her to be auto tuned because that zip zip zoc song she did with What's oh my God, what's the middle of the middle,

I don't like it. It's by Target, it's Target, and it sounds like you just like bought a girl at Target. It sounds it's um. It doesn't have any of her personality in it, like her whole album has like so much of her fun personality, Like I love the song, rich love the sugar, and she's like, I say, ship, I'm cool, and none of it. No, you're right, it's it's totally sterilized. So I don't want that to be

the mare Morris we get got it? Um okay, fun fun tunes you're listening to now that you want to share. Oh god, um not to put you on you know, I'm putting you on the spot. No, it's I mean right now, I saw Hallodali on Friday. So I'm just listening to what I might just I might just pull the trigger and just by myself, just like a and they'll take it for the orchestra really good. And it's not like Dolls anymore, right, which is not And like I would pay top dollar to see Burning And you know,

I was more interested in her than Bettman. I've I've yet to see Bernadette on stage on Broadway signed. This was a seventh time really, the other one I've seen her in two things. I saw them six times. I saw a Little Night Music when I first moved to New York. I still had my student I d from five years before. They didn't have an expiration date. So I saw her in a Little Night Music with Elaine

Stretch two times. Very stressful performance because Elaine just drug that out, saying it was apparently the Union's loved her because it was over three hours, and so yeah, they got extra manic. And I saw Follies four times, which like that's my like number one, Like the best performance like production I've ever seen, ever seen to this day, I mean actually to day, to this day, to day. I actually somehow stumbled upon a like, uh filmed version of the Sunday the Park Now into the Woods that

she was in from the library. I own it. I own it. Her stay with Me is unbelievable. It's unbelievable, her whole performance. And then you you listen to Meryl or you watch Meryl and you're like, I'm not to that. I've never seen that. I freeze. I like it. I mean, I think there's a lot to like about the movie.

It's just not seeing it on stage. And none of these will ever be right of course not, you know what I mean, Like even like even like the movie musicals now that are just straight up for them, Like there's no musical version of the Greatest Showman, but you know the musical will be better. Yeah, oh yeah, because we'll have more than four songs, right well yeah, I

mean that, yes. And also like my thing with The Greatest Showman is the first two songs are like all sung by kids, and um, like the thing is with kids on stage. It's like you can watch it because it's like sort of interesting, like but in a movie, it's like, I don't want to watch these kids. I don't know these kids. Yeah, but you could tell, like the whole time it was like, oh, at some point

they're going to put this on Broadway. And that's almost why this exists, right, it's like a pilot for Broadway exactly. It did feel like that, it really did it? Really did this Frozen? Do we think Frozen is gonna be better? On? Of course it is Frozen. Michael Harney saw it. He said it was a gag. Although I'm hearing mixed things, I'm not a big Frozen neither of mine. I watched it. I got to let it go like that's basically all you know. And I didn't see so I have never

had that experience. You never had the old off experience. I feel good about it. Yeah, absolutely, what have I missed? You missed a cute song? The ending is nice and so much. I like that song, the ending between the sisters. You know when this when when one sister says the other you should see it. It's good. Bowen doesn't hate not good. He thinks that Tangled is better than Frozen. Culturistas here my call and please so asked an answer. Tweet at us, excuse me, tweet at us, tell us

at last, culturistas. If you are a tangled hoe like me out there, tweet at me, or a frozen slut or frozen like me. Matt Rogers, I'm a frozen slot and Tyler is I guess just like an empowered brave fan. Wow, gorgeous, different different hair colors all around. It's not actually blond and blonde, but um uh, that's that's that's kind of perfect. But we all still have to remember that Record Ralph is one of the best movies of all time. It's not a musical, so I can't give it my full attention.

That's that's the difference I needed to be a musical. I know this before, like I can't. I don't know Record Ralph to me like I get and I don't know. My criticism stands. I think they didn't show enough worlds. But see the thing about Record Ralph is that's why I feel the way that they like circumin navigated this whole thing of like, how how are we going to

represent all these video game worlds like faithfully? Because there's there's such rabid fan bases around each of them, like you can't put up like you can't like peek into a Mario world and be like WHOA cool. That was satisfying, Like people are going to find an issue with it, so they like they made their own and they played with they just like meshed them together in a very cool way. Anyway, Um, I thought like it was it

was pretty cool. And then I feel like they established like three or four characters in three or four different worlds and then they kind of stuck to those and I just wanted to see more. Yeah, like it was pretty cool what they did, like like Jane Lynch's character and that's sort of like Halo World. I thought that was awesome. Yeah, I don't I'm not a gamer. I'm really not. Um, but that was cool. And then I

felt like we didn't move on from that. I think that's the biggest barrier for me for rerecord Ralph as I don't care about games that's even like a tim games that I grew up with. It just like I don't know I'm feeling, you know, speaking of very escalated, Yes, speaking of Um, We're gonna ask you what you asked every guest, which is what was the culture that influenced you at a young age. It was the culture that

made you say culture. It might be for me, I'm going to decide to move in a cultural direction with my life. This is pop culture that influences me. Tyler Coates. I think about this question a lot because I'm a big fan of also think about it. Uh, I have a really like it's the thing I can't stop talking about. If you look at me on Twitter, it's cats. Cats but yes, we call let's take that because cats is

is an entry point into something else. Okay, So like Cats, I was like, fuck, yes, everything about this crazy nuts.

I love it. But because I just love musicals and I just love watching people adults do insane things through the delight of other adults because that show was for grown ups, which but I was thinking about, like I was like obsessed with that stuff um as a kid, and like would go to see anything and so like an actual form of memory about the culture and how I take it in and think about it and put it back out into the world. I was in fifth grade.

So I have a brother who's six years younger than me, and are my godparents have a daughter who's his same age, and so they bought tickets to see Beauty and the Beast on ice for my brother, not from me, and so my brother David and their daughter carry We're going to go together because their kindergarteners, and that's the age group that you should be, I mean debatedly. Yeah, well yes exactly. And so I was crushed. I was furious. And then my brother got sick that morning, and so

they're like, Tyler, would you like to go? And I was like, hell, yes, let's do it. Let's go to Richmond and experience this great cultures. Yeah, let's go to the conceum Um. So we went and I was like, I love everything about I love beating the be it's

the best, and all the songs. And you see people skating too, you see a bell, you see a man in a beast costume, you see adults in teacup costumes and fucking I don't know, candelabras in a in a wardrobe, dancing doing all that, and I was like, this is amazing. I can't believe this is so great. I've never seen an on ice and I was just like, this is the best thing I've ever seen. Buying a program using my money that was given to me to go buy

some merch. The next day, I go to school with my Beating the Beast program and I'm like, hey, guys, look what I did last night. And I get a show and like this kid fifth grade, so like what this is when it began, and this kid, Dennis was like, let me see that. I was like, okay, yeah, okay, but be careful with it. And he grabbed it and he was like, hey, everybody, Tyler went to see Beating the Beast on ice like a dumb gay baby a dumb game, and everyone like laughed, and I was like like,

I was like what it was? A new world just happened. And I grabbed it back, and I just remember thinking like I will not let this stop me from appreciating what I appreciate. This just means I'll do it on my own and no one else is invited. And what I didn't know then was that I will spend the next twelve years of my life doing that until I go to college and meet people who I could be friends with based on mutual interests as opposed to neighbors. Oh my god, So when did cats enter the fray?

Cats was around the same year I remember I feel like we were watching like like an after school special type of movie about like I don't know, a girl got into crack or something and so she couldn't she couldn't sing in her talent show. But the song she was going to sing with memory, And so I remember hearing that song and being like, what is this the most beautiful song I've ever heard? Over and over again?

And like I had a friend Jeanette, who um probably hit puberty in fourth grade, so like she was creating destined to just be awkward and like also loved musicals and like only have gave. She and I like latched onto each other, were real early and we're like the two of us are together forever. Um. She's in Australia now. She also got out of entrust um and so I went home and I was like, I love this song from Cats? What is it? I don't want? My mom was like, oh I saw Cats once, Like we saw it.

It's like people in cat costumes and like it like, let's five, let's buy it. How do we see? How do we get it? So we went. We were at the mall in Fredericksburg, the other big city, and I was like, let's go to music Land. I saved up my allowance. I'm buying the two tapes. My mother wanted me to get to Highlights and I was like, hell no, I'm getting the I don't care if it cost sixteen dollars.

I'm gonna listen to all of it. And then we got into a van and immediately plug did in and like the first song is like bat shit, and I was like, I don't know what this is, but I am all in. And you know, it takes like two hours to get to the one song that I heard. But by that time, I was like, this is all I want. And it's based on poetry by T. S. Eliott, Like adults. He wrote this, and then other adults were like, this is good content. Let's make a musical about it

with other adults for the enjoyment of adults. And then my mother surprised me with tickets to the national tour in Richmond and we sat in the orchestra. I remember when the lights went down and like we're on the aisle, so like the cats come out and like they turn on their eyes and get the ship out of me, and they were just roaming around and they go up on stage and then I could only stare at their crotches all like, because it's you know, the majesty of

watching performance, like big performance. It's no Disney on Ice. It's like for real, it's for real. It's dancing with their whole body, with their whole body, and the bodies that I could not stop staring at. Yeah, yeah, I mean that's enough. That's no. That's the thing about especially at that age, it's like when you go to see a rubbish show, you are looking at every crevice on

their body. You're like, okay, like being a now being a performer, and like sometimes like performing for people that are a little bit younger, it's like you get off and then you're like, oh wow, me at that age was like really probably looking at the performers like butts the whole time. They're good performer, but cat butts. I think those are both kind of Okay. We have our most cultured guests on the show who gave us not

one but two like perfect encapsulations of um. I think the platonic ideal of the answer to our question because I think because I think the whole Disney on Ice story, like, yeah, that was wonderful full Joseph Campbell arc I don't know, um, hero's journey of like, oh my god, like what a beautiful like like the queer narrative of beautiful, like introduction to this like piece of culture, and then you were just roundly shamed for it, for having the emotional response

to stupidly emotional thing. But but but and all that. But it was, yeah, it was. It wasn't less real for do you think the skating heightened the emotion? Um? Maybe, I mean, yeah, well I think I I've always had an infinity for like ridiculousness, so that definitely was like the Beauty and the Beast was like the entry point and then I was like, oh, here's another layer. That's I think I had a recognition where I was like,

this is really dumb. So good because you got to like you got to sort of evaluate it at every level of like wow, this is amazing, this is also really dumb. I love the oh and being a shamed for it. I'm going to um put up some defenses against what other people think about why I love for this and like I think this is why I hated the live action one. Yes, okay, I watched all of it. I did not turn it off because I was like, I'm going to see this ship through. It's a travesty

that's truly horrific um. But what made me so mad about it is like, it's not live action. Let's stop lying to ourselves. It's just c g I. It's still animated one person who can't sing or screen presence. That you also don't think she has any screen presence, not in that fair, But like what I wanted, what I wanted was disneyized. I wanted to see I want to see Kevin Klein in a candle costume. Yeah, I want to see Emma Thompson her face poking out of a

giant taka. I wanted those teacups to be too big and human scale. I wanted I wanted to see those because the other thing I loved as a kid was the five Alison Wonderland TV mini series with Carol Channing is in it, which is like weird. Have you ever seen the clip of her singing Jam Tomorrow, Jam yesterday? You like, go go on YouTube lunch and listen to that because it's insane. It's just like this. It's a bunch of like vaudevillians, like from the like forties, fifties.

Who then we're like, like Ringo is in it, Sammy Davis Jr. Isn't as a caterpillar? Like it's real and they're in like full body costume. That's what you like that? Like you see the seams, you see the zippers, like that's that's my aesthetic right there, like high school play on film? Right? Yeah? Do you think we'll get that for Lion? Can you think Beyonce we'll get on all fours? I mean I would love that. I'm around. I don't

think that will happen. I don't think so either. Um. Can I just read to everyone, um a plot summary of Cats? That's what I was wondering what you were doing over there? Yeah, I've been asked to tell the plot of Cats. Okay, so I would love to know. I don't know what the story because there is a story much too what most people think and they making

this up. I've seen the film film like the Great Performances, yes, stage right right right, I've seen that and I couldn't tell I mean this is like you know, over a decade ago, could not tell you a single thing even after watching it. I don't think people go for the story, Okay, so how about how about this I'll read I'll read this plot summary written by a friend of the show, Branson Reese. Oh I think I know. Yeah, have you seen that this is gonna be tongue in cheek? Well no, no, no, no,

no no no, I mean I read that. I was like, we should have Tyler tell us the story and then see how correctly it lines. Okay, but I will be very serious about don't. So Once a year in London, all the cats gather for the Jelical Ball, and there's like you see, like there's like a couple of like

cat Burglars, Mungo, Jerry Rumple Teaser. You have like a crazy like Auntie like Jenny, and he DUTs who's like takes kittens under her wing, and like all these rum tum tugger who's like horny and weird about of course. And then you have Grizabella, who was like old bitch but like on her last life, but she is the glamour cat and everyone hates her because she used to think her ship didn't sink, but then she got old and everyone's like, yeah, bitch, he's the same letter box

as the rest of us. So they're all vying to be the cat that goes to the Heavy Side Layer, which is cat Heaven. You get there an attire and you get reborn, and you get picked by Old Deenonomy who's the oldest cat, and he's like the father figure, and only one of them can go, only one of them can go yet. But the whole, the whole thing is that they all like are sort of performing. It's sort of a reality composition when you think about it, because they're all performing to be chosen to be the

all star cat. I also recently realized it's a lot like a chorus line, except for getting into the show. They're just trying to get into Heaven to um. And then so based Oh, there's also like the bad guy in the cavity who's like responsible for he like kidnaps somebody. And then Mr mustaff Lee's a magic cat. He comes and saves the day. And then Grizabella comes out and she sings Memory and everyone is like, oh, wow, you're actually sad, you have feelings, you've an inner life, you

deserve to go. And so she goes to the Heavy Side Layer and everyone's like, that's amazing, and that's the and that's that's how it ends. So the moral of the story is respect your elders. Yeah, yeah, I know your history or your history or your history. You're feeling history. Everyone has inner pain. Yeah, I love it. Okay, So I don't know. I'll read the brands because it's it's very tongue and chicken, very reductive, and I just want and I want, I want the counterweight to this to

be Tyler's wonderfully textured synopsis. Okay, let's hear how it measures up. Here's the plot of cats, as best as I Branson can explain it. I'm just couldn't quote him. So you got a bunch of cats running around up there? Seems simple enough, right, We're in, We're out. Think again, pal, because this isn't just another night in the alley. An enormous cat has chosen tonight to vaguely announce that he

can send a cat to heaven. He never really goes into detail, but the rule seems to be one cat gets to go to heaven regardless of whether or not they're sick, and nobody starts crying. They just take the ship and stride that ship and stride so then, instead of pleading their case for why they deserve to go to heaven when they die, which is tonight, even if they're healthy. They spend an hour introducing themselves to the audience. Um,

and I have questions already. Okay, great, that's act one. Um, why do we believe the big cat when he says he can do this? Because he's a deter u. It's it's also tradition. It's tradition. It's just cat tradition. Okay. So they come to the Jackal Ball because they know this event is happening, this sort of like reaping. Yeah,

it's world building, right, Okay, now now I'm on board. Okay, great, back to You're like strapping, this will probably be all about heaven and years later you'll remember thinking that and it will break your day heart because nope, three d four more cats just introduced themselves. And then this heaven cat, who by the way, has done zero magic and has proven nothing, shows thank you, thank you, and you're watching and you're like, here we go, better late than never.

But he sort of just smoothies around and then all of a sudden, his skin falls off and the devil jumps out, and so now you're watching and he throws a firework at somebody and you're like, it was all worth it. Here we go, here we motherfucking go. But then two cats dance aggressively near him, and so he apologizes and politely leaves. So then two more cats introduced themselves, and then some old woman we've never met. Okay, she

is introduced several times, so then that's not true. So when we can refute that, shows up and sings the only song from Cats that you know, and then she goes to heaven. This could have been just the first two tweets. Okay, I there's something about who wrote who wrote the book for hats? You know, there's no Well, so t s Eliott a collection of poems he's actually nominated posthumously for. That's a little that's a little bit. Okay, it's mostly just Angelid Webber's andy work. Sure, yeah, and

probably cocaine. Cocaine. So that's the challenge here, is that this the musical was limited in its storytelling ability efficiency. What have you buy the source material? Okay, so that I'm not I don't totally buy Branson synopsis of that because I don't totally buy Branson. Okay, um, hey, listen, Branson,

I don't totally buy it. Matt doesn't buy it. I don't know so I because wow, this is really like again a counterweight to my my lifelong perception of cats, which has been like crazy, stupid, crazy crazy, not even stupid, just like crazy crazy. It is stupid. It's true. Where does come from? Yeah, that's just a term that ts Elien made up. Because they all have three different names. They have their human name. That's like if you have a cat, you call it like roy, right, but then yeah,

but there is a buster buster for Jones. Excuse me. He's like a fancy like they did too much. He's like a tuxedo cat, you know. Um, So he's fancy. He's like a cat about town. Um. And then so they all have their like names that like their human calls them. But then they have their like cat Yeah, Grizabella, Rumpled Teaser, Bumbell Yourena, rum tum Tugger, and tum Tugger Um the cavity. He's actually the horny one. Rum Tum

Tugger is actually horny. Yeah, because he like picks women out of the audience, so like basically like get he's like the he's the sex appeal of the show. Journalized like you are are supposed to be turned out by him, but he's also just like fussy, Okay, a fussy, a fussy little cat. That's what I don't know. He's the guy, he's the cat that you want to fuck. So I'll get it to you. I get it. It's just like real life. Just like real life that other And are

you a fan of his? Yeah. The day after the election, um, obviously, we were so depressed. I went to work and I was like, I've got to do something about this. And so I spent probably a hundred eighty dollars on tickets to see Phantom. He's like, that is going to be for that night or for that night, and I told my boyfriend John, I was like, York's at home from home in Park Slope, and I was like, meet me in Times Square. We're gonna go to dinner and we're going to deal with this in our way. And I

wanted to see Fantom and it was fantastic. I do love fans. I've seen. That's the second time I saw the first time I saw it, I had very high expectations that were not met. You can't go in with with high expectations because will you will be bored after four? Yeah, I but I appreciate the Santum as a whole, holistic musical piece. I appreciate more than most of Andrew Later

Webber's other work. Jesus Christ Superstar is great. I've never I've never said it's got some real jams the television performance, and it will be the first time I see that. It's good. It's good. It's like, I mean, that movie is actually one of the better I think, yeah, because it's just like it's a rock opright, it's just all singing, it's all fun. Everyone's sexy in it. Do you know what we saw which was like not good? No, I

saw it last year. I loved it. The second time I saw I see, I saw it was a kid in the nineties. I saw it was a kid with Petula Clark Petula, and then then I forgot Yeah for my birthday. Actually that was a year ago. That's so funny because my boyfriend is like, oh yeah, we was talking about Piscy's boyfriendsnsets. So the story that we like to tell was we were in the fucking nose blades like third mezzanine um and literally the last row. It

was bad. We were really far away, but when they were so cheap there and and so you're familiar that, like the stage was tier and deconstructive, was deconstructed very much so um, but Glen's entrance is from the is from the top tier. So her first entrance we just hear this like roar of applause and obviously our glenn closest feet and everyone just losing the that's her feet. And she was wild that that for that entire show. She's I mean, she's not, I mean, she's she was

acting with every part. I mean the time. I appreciated Glen close because she has she has a lot to prove because she's always like second fiddle to Marrow. So she's like at this point, she's like, fuck it, I'm going to give you, Glen, you what I have and if you don't like to deal with it, go find Meryl Stree. Wow. I mean I would kill to see some sort of dramatization of that of just Glenn and Meryl crossing paths made two movies together totally, but like

there's some like feud slash wicked situation there. It's like I want to I want someone to dramatizing. I actually think the existing the existence of Meryl has forced all of her contemporaries to do more interesting things, more interesting things, And I would say that she does absolutely I would. I think she phones it in a lot. There you go. She certainly has a mode where she is really acting and giving you top to your talent for all time, and then a mode where she is doing Meryl streep,

which is always fun but very easy for her. Yeah. I think that the thing that I've noticed with her is that she never works with like really great directors, wow stretch her. She found the people that she likes. I mean, like, for example, August So Stage County, Like what that a great source material, like a great three hour fucking step masterpiece family drama directed by some nobody that collects all these people and she can like just hammer away through it and get an Oscar nomination. Right.

It's a Tracy Let's play. Every other Tracy lets play that's been made into a movie was directed by William Friedkin, who is like a psychopath. He did The Exorcist like basically broke Ellen Burson's back, but like he did Bug, which is fucked up. He did Killer Joe which is sucked up. He should have done. She would have never worked with him. This is why Tyler is here. I live for this ship and I like her. I mean, Sophie's choice, I think is like one of the all

time best on screen performances ever ever captured. She learned how to speak three languages with a polish her best. Can't deny her at her best, And I like what I'm saying is I think it's great that she eats up as much as she does, because I do think it forces specifically Sigourney Weaver and Glenn Close to have

interesting careers and therefore betrailblazers for other people. For example, Glenn Close's first huge film was Fatal Attraction, and that was made of a household name, and that kind of I think literally created a subject because before that she was playing very similar roles exactly like been on Broadway

one and Tony. I think it'd been nominally for Asking before Fatal Attraction, but like that's the one that like her the and Sigourney Weaver was always weird, like they were a yale together, Like yeah, she was always not getting the parts. She was always playing like this the weird sister or even the mom to like Meryl's on Janus, which if you think about it, is kind of weird. But you know, Sigourney doing alien creates the female driven action which action hero sci fi at he it is

even more specific, which is so funny. And then because she gets notoriety, she's able to do cool stuff like working girl, you know what I mean, and you know, the ice storm later like later on in her career because she's well known. Guerrillas in the miss don't laugh. It's number number eighty, don't tell me Sigourney can't serve

you biopic, I was gonna say. And number twenty right after that is okay, well, first of all, let's repeat that, don't tell you, tell me Sigourney can't serve you biopic, And number twenty right after that is don't don't Gorilla in the Mist I slept on. I've never seen that. I forget you gotta see girls in the So I watched Gorillas in the Midst and ap environmental science. Okay, that's why I didn't see it because one okay, no, it's it's good and I'm not ruining it because this

really happened to Diane Fossey. But at the end of the movie, like, I didn't know what happened to Diane Fossey. It's very tragic. Weight, it's not No, no lives to this day. In Gorillas in the Midst spoiler dies right. She gets murdered by Buchers who stabbed her to death while she's sleeping. Gorilla did it? Yea, But now that would have been a good twist. No. No. I have a good friend who is a Coco Coco true truth. She thinks that Coco killed her. Oh cat a ball, Wow,

Coco truther. So she has been like on that for many decades. I'm a Coco Truther now, and that I think the animated film is actually live action. I'm a Coco Truther. Wow, that's amazing. I'm a Coco Truth. And that I think it took place um in Touloom, which is not a real Mexican location because it's been so industrialized by tourism. I'm a Coco Truther. And that I think that hot chocolate tastes like vanilla. That's beautiful. I think it is beautiful. That's AFULU wait, just to get

back on this um. You know, these advanced these advanced actresses will call them advanced executive level actress actress. We don't because because like like advanced style is like is what you would call like old person. Okay, where's a hat that's nice advanced actresses title about advanced actor because we have an authority. Okay, I'm very down for it. Um, I feel like, oh, this is this is such a

throwaway thing. But Iron Lenny Oscar garage garbage Oscar one for maybe any of the other five she's been most recently, even if you had given it to it for August Stage County Doubts probably first and foremost. Yes, um, what else? I mean into the Woods. I'd rather give her that than fucking iron Lady. I think that's literally garbage Julian and Julia, you know what I mean, like so many other better performances, even the Cary Julia and Julia Julia. Yeah,

it should just be Julia. She wasn't Julia to the movie Julia Jane find that first. I think it was her first, uh first movie. It was her first movie. Julia might be, I trust you. She's like one scene right in Julia and Julia, and then in Manhattan she like gets accosted by Widdy Allen, Oh my god, like many others, like many others, like Shelley Duval too. But she was in Anie Hall. Was in Annie Hall. Yeah, yeah, very briefly, she like she like goes on a date

with interesting. Um. So wait, speaking so much about Marylyn the Oscars, we should probably discuss last evening, well now several evenings ago, for if you're listening to it on the day of release. But what did we think of the Oscars, folks? I mean, I thought they're very boring, very very pretty. I mean, with the exception of Shape of Water, I think everyone knew what was going to win stuff, But wasn't there like, oh, you didn't think Shape of Water was gonna win. I I thought it

was gonna be. Well. I this was the first year that I thought like the Best Picture was kind of a toss up. I didn't think that I was gonna win, although it should have. I thought I thought the front runner was going to be three billboards. And then I thought maybe dun Kerk would be like a weird dark horse. Yeah, like something Dunkerk would have like cut through um with

the votes being split between all these other things. And then there was a moment last night when dun Kirk on Best Editing, where like that's a several awards earlier in the evening. If you really think about it, like it was never gonna lose those awards, but you know that made it seem like, are we aheaded for this?

I never thought that was going to happen. I also think that it's very tough for a movie sometimes to steamroll the precursors as Best Picture and still went best which like, I never thought Three Billboards was great be the film of the year. I kind of get Shape

of Water and all. So if you think about it, in the Grand Scheme Um, George Severs had a tweet which I really liked, which was he quote tweeted someone that said, overall, it was a really safe Best Picture choice, and he was like, oh yeah, I hate when female lead horror sci fi um like thrillers with a like unlikely romance directed by a Mexican immigrant hate Best Picture win Best Picture. It's so safe, Like it's really kind of cool, especially for a Giamo del Toro film to

win Best Picture. They're so specific. He's such in like an acteur, Like it's so kind of actually not safe that he won this would ordinarily never really happen. I just think because we've been talking about it so much and we all wanted a super alternative choice, which is I think, like actually something with the world right now. It's like we're all ready to move way past what everything Like sure, I mean the oscars bring out the worst than people every when the next day is an asshole.

And like because I think I don't know, I like last year was the first year in like maybe since like n where I felt like just a glut of just amazing movies that like spoke to the time, even though they with the exception of the Posts, were not like engineered to Yeah, like last year, I'm sorry, We're like and like there were three movies about there are three movies about poisonous mushrooms being like a narrative device. Like that's weird because it was The Guilds and Phantom

Thread and then Lady Macbeth poisons poisonous mushrooms. Oh my god. Yeah, so like that in itself was like really really freaking weird. Um And just like the way that I felt like class was shown in many different films, like some better than others, and then get out. I think like was just a phenomenon and like what it showed and like what to pick it, and like how well it was received. And I think it's everyone is so emotional that everyone

was especially emotional about the movies that came out. Like that's how I felt like. I just like stopped being so objective about everything and just was like I love things more often. I like things more often because I was just like disappear, like I feel something about totally. And I think people can do themselves a favor and do everyone else a favor and just go back to

trying to enjoy movies again. Because I think this actually started last year when literally the narrative became La La Land is Trump, Right, I was like, La La Land is not Trump, and La La Land doesn't exist to beat Moonlight. Okay, La La Land was created lovingly and very well by a lot of people who wanted to make this movie musical. And if you have problems with the cast, thing, like, go ahead and have that issue,

but this movie is not Donald Trump. Well now we're yeah, we're putting a lot of external narratives on staff tot and like trying to create this like weird, bifurcated world that doesn't exist, like it just doesn't exist. Yeah, I yeah, wow, I mean your whole assessment of like all these movies this year, um speak like dealing with class in different ways, some better than others, Like totally just occurred to me now,

which like feels very shallow of me. But like yeah, Ladybird, get Out, Project, Project, all of those, Yeah that's you know what. Yeah, like this was a year where you really could allow yourself to let any of these films speak to you. And like people did really graft on these things, like especially especially to Three Billboards, being like it it's racist whatever, Um, I have the mind did

you did you tweet this? I feel like I might have read this from you, like, um, yeah, I think you tweeted this thing about like Three Billboards feels very Flannery O'Connor. Yeah yeah, I mean that's because I read a ship ton of finer student. Um. I feel like, yeah, Three Billboards. I saw it a screening and I loved it, Like I think, what it's pros It's it's just a huge acting movie, like it's stacked. Yeah, it's a play

that couldn't be performed on stage because there's like bombs happening. Yeah, and there's that deer um and three billboards are really hard to pull off on stage too big. They have to see it off stage. Yeah, do that thing where they point into the audience. Um, so yeah, I think that. Like once I thought about, like after I was just like, oh my god, like this performances were so amazing and

like so effective. Then I was like, oh, there's some weird stuff with how it was written and like how it unfolded, and like I think like they use race as a prop, which is like its biggest problem. Um and just like the sort of sloppy writing. But like I think you can get away within a play because you don't. I don't know. There's just like so much more sensory that you have to take in all at

one total p um. So when I saw it again the second time, I was like, well, France and mcdorm it's great, Sam Rockwell's great, but it does feel like a bad funer o connor like as someone who tried to just rip off O'Connor and oh my god, don't we creative writing glasses? That's probably what I would have tried to do. Every writer, every creative person has a suit of Southern Gothic phase. I'm just kidding. Um, that was a part of my influences. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah,

Southern goths. Yeah. I was always writing about Southern goths. Yeah, you know Tampa area girls named Beth who would really just who listened to simple Plan? Yeah, which is not even a girl there. And it's about what you feel about yourself. Yeah, I don't want to know exactly the coach n It's about how you feel about myself. Tyler had this great moment um And I just want to congratulate you on this because this feels very aspirational to me.

You saw all the best picton nominees before they were now yeah, the first time and the first time yeah, first time in a long time where you just had seen them all. Yeah. And I I commend you. And did you have a strong favorite? Um you thought get

Out should have won? I yeah, I think. I mean it's I have like my objective favorites, and I have like my like I would say that, like my top five movies were Ladybird, get Out, Call Me by Your Name, Shape of Water, which really surprised me, and then the ones that didn't get nominated were like Titania, which I saw twice. Um Quiet Passion, which is a synthonix in movie about it's a real hoot. It's I watched it twice in the weekend because I was like having a

weird weekend. But like it's a it's a real long it's it's an interesting film. It's like it's it's I've never seen a movie that like shows a creative struggle so intimately and like shows the interiority of a human being in like such a beautiful way. But it's also kind of boring. I will I'll cop to that. Is it like you can't just like turn it on, smoke a joy and be like yeah, because it like The Hours if it was just Virginia wool and then a century before. Yes, actually, okay, I hate the well I

did the Hours for that movie. I think that because

I I love The Hours. When it came out, I was I thinking, I think a sophomore year, I drove to Charlotte's All from where I went to school in Harrisonburg because to see it because it was Harrisson remembering like this is really brilliant in poetic because I mean, at the time it was kind of one of the like it felt very styeah, and then I watched it again as an adult, was like, this is like it's a fourteen minute credit sequence, yeah, where you're just watching

these women just like run around. And it's also weird because it's like the it takes place just before nine eleven New York, so like it's like the last pre nine eleven New York movie that came the following how interesting, Like that was weird and so like by that point, like even like in hindsight now like talking about the AIDS crisis in that way, and like two thousand one was a little like weird to talk about with that like weight in that like sort of melodrama to I

was so watching it now, you feel like it feels a little anachronistic the way. Okay, yeah, that's actually a really good modern mertal performance too. I think she's yeah, she's great, and she didn't even jan was great, and obviously Nicole Julianne Moore was great in that way that she was great at the time, like she kind of was given the same performance again and again and again. Right. I said that the darkest hour Gary Olman winning for that was his Still Alice because he refused to see

that won't go. That was just engineered to get her an Oscar, and like no one needs to see, right, right, Alec Baldwin's as her daughter, like Alec Baldwin's in I, I feel like we need that, and it's just been tried over and over again, just an engineered movie for a career Oscar for fucking um. Like yeah, like they tried. I don't think she's ever gonna win. That's so sad. It's sad Ryan has an Oscar and it doesn't like an honorary. I think, yeah, like Gena Rolins at that point.

I mean, I wonder if it feels like it counts for them. I mean, I feel like they really do keep trying with her, right they do. I think something. I think we'll get up. I think I think she'll hack it, and then I think, you know, he'll take her place, you know who I think is probably never winning. I knew you were going to say her yeah, and then you did too. Oh my god. I think I think I think she'll pass away with like fifteen nominations.

I really do. I think she I think she'll be getting them into her seventies and won't win yeah, that's that makes me sad, just sing. I mean, I would like I think she'll win. Well, I mean, okay, just a quick thing that I want to circle back on um with gillermaut to not know this fun fact um. For the past five years of Best direct Or wins, four out of the five had been Mexican. Yeah, yeah, which I think is really cool. Oh fantastic. And then

you you read too twice and then the gravity guy. Yeah, wow, that's amazing, know that the fit I just four out of five and so you read to one twice. I always forget he was one twice. Yeah, for for Revenant and for um brit Man. Yeah, oh my god. I did not see the reven and I was not and I wasn't going right right, It's like right get out winning Best Screenplay. That might have been enough. I guess I would have loved it. If it were. We all would have loved it. We all would have loved it.

But it being having that many nominations on top of being such a phenomenon and the fact that it won Best Original Screenplay, it has that forever. And I think that that is just a really good example of the Academy Awards getting it right, because that was in every sense of the word, the best original screen pric you've never seen. Like that's the meaningful award, I think. I think so it's an award that rewards intelligence. Yeah, yeah, I mean from every standpoint, it's just like that should

go down in history. And I also think that's it's I don't know, maybe it's because that's what I went to college for, but like I have such a respect for someone that can put something so amazing into that art form, like it really is so hard to do, and then there's so many moving pieces, and also the fact that he directs it, produces it, and writes it and was still so clearly able to see his vision through, like sometimes you can drive yourself crazy on a project

like that artistically, and the fact that he was so focused and so disciplined, um in every respect that that script worked as well as it did, Like, it's just amazing because guess what, like Greta Gerwig, Um, I thought that was an amazing script and that would have been my second choice. But she will write more movies like that, and perhaps perhaps her work is her greatest work is

still ahead of her. In fact, I bet it is I think that Jordan Peel like not to say that we won't see more amazing work from him, but I do believe that get Out will be a strong part of his legacy. And I think that it's right that he won an Oscar for it, because my thing with oscars and I always say this is could have been done by anyone else as well, And I don't know that get Out is accomplished as well by anyone else at any other point in their career than Jordan Peele.

Right now, for this moment um, I will say that, um because I'm because I'm sure the screen plays out there somewhere. I just have to read it. No, no, no, you can read it. You know, posted it Nathaniel in

the film Experience Dale Roger for the film Experience. Donet will give him another plug here and by the way, the Film Bitch Awards are underway, but he sometimes does like anatomy of a scene like some something like that, and he breaks down a scene he specifically talked about the scene and get Out, which is them getting pulled over and her conversation with the police officer she wants to avoid being you know, and how it works has to work several different ways in order to work as

a scene, because on rewatch value, you have to you understand that she's panicking because this is all going to happen and or so it's a performance and it's a performance on top of a performance, etcetera. But he links to the full script because you know, I have to read the fruit loop scene the way it's written. Yeah. Yeah, that's another thing is it's like, I think that's one of the most iconic I mean I'm using that term, like using that term really nearly. Um, but yeah, just

what an amazing scene. Yeah, I wonder if Greti Wig. I don't think she feels super sad. No, I mean she I mean, did you see the clip of her like being like I love him towards out Like she she seems like I think she's excited to be a part of that conversation at all. Yeah. I mean that was also cool when Emmistone was like these four men and greta Girlwig did such an amazing and then everyone was applotting. I mean I think that it was a night celebrating gretor Gerwig in many ways. Yeah, I mean

it's just it's historic. Fifth fifth woman. Yeah, yeah, so big, big dealing. There will be more in the Sacramento Cinematic universe. Yeah,

I see, I can't wait. Um okay. So I wanted to bring up the other big item of the day, which was RuPaul was asked if he would allow a um transitioning person, like a male to female individual who was in the process of transitioning, to compete on the show as a contestant of RuPaul's drag race, and he kind of said no, because you know that then it's not actually drag like no, right, And so then he got a lot of flak about that, and so he doubled down in a tweet that said, you know, you

can use performance enhancing drugs and still be an athlete, you just can't compete in the Olympics. He the show inherently is one that evolves a lot, but and and RuPaul himself has a lot of like inconsistencies about what the show means, like the joke about like it's not RuPaul's best friends, like you don't and no one goes home with a participation's trophy, but like literally everyone does everyone and so stuff like that, like you know it

shouldn't and like I don't know. It's so it's interesting because it does bring I don't know, like the I think because I was like very late convert to drag Race. I started watching last season. Yeah, I wrote like I wrote about how I watched all of it because I watched like one episode I was like, this is actually great, um, and like appreciated it in a way that like because I was so turned off by Dragon drag performance because it made me unc yeah, from like when I was

like coming out and was like worried about it. Um. But what I got out of it, and I think what I get out of like Queer Eye, is that it like makes you feel vulnerable. It makes you feel

okay being vulnerable. So that's the major like inconsistency there is that like he's being tested now himself by these like ideals of a changing generation, which he's like like, look like he came up in a time where like you had to be fucking hardened and like you know, a workhorse and not just to like breakthrough in the way that he did, but he was also doing it when people were dying, So like he's coming it from

from this place. I assume I can away project that he's like, why are you not being like stuffer about like find your own I've heard him say I've been on the front lines. I've heard it very defensively say, and he said that, and he said it on his own podcast like a couple of times when Michelle, which you can't really argue, no, look I don't I think that.

And that's what kind of what I'm saying is. It's like, I just hope this leads to a productive conversation and not one that's like, you know what, fuck RuPaul Um. I think there, Yes, I agree with you. There's there's so much room for compassion here. People are getting very inflamed. Charlene Um, who's a Brooklyn drag performer trans as well.

Um wrote this long, long post about how she was getting worried that her comments, like her knee jerk reaction to the whole thing was like really just like angry. And then she was like, but wait a minute, I just actually want to contextualize all of us because I love RU. I this is this is very disappointing, and that's why I'm reacting this way, and she and she went into how when RU was coming up ladies early nineties,

Um the the sort of lifestyle was very hermetic. You you just had to be You had to just basically sit alone indoors for the entire like just the entire day when when when daylight was out, just with like a fucking towel wrapped around your head and giant sunglasses and you just had to like basically hide from the world. And the only time you felt seen or appreciated was when you would go out at night. We're big fucking hair,

looking like fucking fabulous. And so it just what internalizes is this like this very precious valuation of what drag is. And for Rue, like right now seeing these things sort of be sort of opened up, she probably sees this. She sees it as like a Pandora's Box thing where it's like we actually let me just's like contain this back to what I know and contain this into like

a mental model of what I know dragons. And so that's why Ru is responding this way, and I understand it, but it also makes me upset and it disappoints me. So everyone should read m Charlene that's just her Facebook name. UM, read that read this little post that she wrote. Um, it's very, very, very balanced on all sides, I think. But yeah, I mean it's it's it's it's disappointing, it's

it's a it's a tough one. It's tough. It's a tough one because also it's like, you know, at the heart of it is like ru I think wants to celebrate like like fun and throwing off these chains and it's like but at the end of the day, like being thrown at other people, yes, questions of identity and then people, I don't blame anyone that's going to feel hurt or disrespected or cast aside when that's happened their whole fucking like man, that's that's a that's as if

to say, like you couldn't intersect it fun for volity with a trans performer or with a female sis female drag performing on the show like fucking Peppermint, Like she specifically talks about Peppermint and the Guardian article and it talks about like the breasts forming, and that's when it gets weird. It's like literally talks about her physical body.

But that's where sort of like doesn't understand what trends transition, right, because then it's becoming like the postop thing yeah, and like looking only at the surface level exactly, with the interiority that like I think he's missing exactly and understanding the humanity behind it. Are you watching the season? I am. Yeah. We're at that point now where it's like I don't because well, that's so I appreciated in your last recap. Actually, how much like the show what I don't like about

All Stars thre I loved All Stars too. I thought it was like the strongest thing, like, but like this is too. It seems very obvious to me. I mean last week obviously was like the curveball, which I think was dumb, but whatever. Um yeah, I was just like, let's get over it. Like you, I get if you're tired, then you're tired, but just like, don't make it. I don't know, you've got two more weeks at this thame Also, don't more McMichael's give me a break, come on back

in the competition. Um. But like also it's just like I know who's Like I can tell who's gonna win because I can see like the talent on display who I think it's Angela. You think that's why I'm like, I mean, I was like, okay, are we just gonna watch Angela and Ben like win every week and like where's the drama in that? And like, but I don't want the manufactured drama of a reality show where they have to bicker and fight to like play mind games

knock each other out. I would just rather see RuPaul say you go so mind gaming, and I don't care for them strategizing. I didn't feel that way was all stars to know, because I mean the felt merit based felt merit based. I think maybe because there are more factions.

There was like one specific faction, Sters too that carried over from that season, right right, right, um, but it I ultimately thought like you could see like people were succeeding because they were great, right yeah, yeah, totally, totally, totally. It was like clear redemption arcs, clear victory arcs, consistency whatever. I liked the first half of the season because it did feel merit based. Morgan leaving first I thought was definitely right, right. Then Thorgy, yeah, sorry you didn't that

it was fine? Then Milk definitely like it was. Why I just before I just want to say about Milk, I want the unearned confidence of that to not only just think that I'm the ship, but also blame others for when I'm an asshole. Yeah, because I want to be able to tell someone was like, how dare you not let me know I was being an as that that that that's the issue. That's when she said, and that is I feel like I've gotten the shaft here, but not asshole when she said I feel like Alexis Michelle.

When Ever, when they let her walk out on that outfit, it's like, Wow, this is the kind of person who watched that episode and saw Alexis Michelle in that episode and was like I identify with her, I'm on her side, Like no, yeah, yeah, or saw that. Can you imagine watching that and being like, Alexis is right. They should told her to wear a better outfit on the runway so she could have won the challenge. I don't think

it's Milk necessarily processing processing that that way. I think Milk saw that episode of Untucked Um and then was like, Wow, Alexis is fucking crazy. I'm not like that, and then going on All Stars three and being just like that, like that, Okay, yeah that's probably even worse. Yeah, but I think that confidence comes from being so attractive as a man, yeah, Oh, I sat next to Milk at Cats just to bring it back. That is too much. Wow, gorgeous.

I mean it's full circle. He goes back to Cats and Milk would be a great Although he can't necessarily move sexy, he can model and we goofy. I thought Milk was actually really good and Kitty girls time. I mean yeah, but still, I mean, it wasn't for it wasn't enough for you. It was just like the text that he does and I'm just like, I don't care. Well,

that's the thing that was so funny, so funny. But Milk is like just is I was saying, like it's always like se there with what I think he's trying to achieve and you and never never follows through all the way because you're like, wait, am I enjoying this because he's nice to look at. I don't know. That seems very shallow, um, but that's also one of the reasons why it is enjoyable, you know what I mean,

Like they know what they're doing. Like that's why when it comes down to like you know, Milk and someone else that's like less appealing, Like even as a personality, they could come out there and give a better drag performance. But if they're a less appealing reality show contestant on reality show, that does matter. And that's I think. Like I actually had a tweet. I was like, what you

guys haven't watched drag Race? Drag is hot male models, like because that's honestly how it feels sometimes, like like when they cast the show, it's like, if Pearl was uglier than he is as a boy, would be in the top three. And that's that. And if you don't admit that you are fucking crazy. Milk. The problem I have with Milk is that he knows he's so pretty, but like tries to show off that he is like quirky, awkward,

like ugly. So it's a very anakendric thing. Yeah, and it's like look at my gaptives, look at my big nose, and it's like no, like I want like some of my favorite like Katia is one. I think Katia is like one of the most stunning beautiful people in the world, and like as a boy attractive, but like not like Milk. Like if Milk were to be Katia, like that would be like insane. Say, It's like how that doesn't transfer. Let me just put trash on my face and I'm editorial.

I was like, I don't care, like be something interesting. I don't know, like, don't be interesting, just be good at it, and I don't need it. It feels forced. It feels like I don't know because even when Milk came out in the Glamour look like he wasn't a gorgeous woman, like something like Katia comes out and if Katia wanted to look glamorous fish she could, like Katia is gorgeouss But like I mean, like Alyssa. I think Alyssa like the perfect fucking package because she's also crazy.

And also, I don't know if you've you know, you guys aren't real housewives. I'm a new sort of I'm a neo fight. When I started watching Dallas, I understood it's that's the reference point rich Dallas bitches women. It is like it made me understand what Alyssa Edwards yeah, like like like literally like yeah, it's like wrong, like

all like new money, but new Dallas money. So like they're all carnies and former cheerleaders who are like really married into it and like are desperate to keep it right. That's why I like money during All Stars to when they did the pants challenge, Elyssa Edwards came out and she goes, I'm giving you which white woman, like, which is just so funny for her to say, I'm giving you rich woman if she's been dressing up like something else the whole time, Like this is a rich white woman.

It's subdued. You did invite this one to a party daytime. She's there to greet you, and that's the daytime, Melissa. That's what it was. Daytime Melissa. But she couldn't know. She didn't know. That's what that meant. Elyssa was for all time. Where's that reality show? I know, the World of under right. Yeah, it's supposed to be like an online thing. Dang, Now, I say air put it on logo,

there's no programming. Absolutely, put it on logo. Yeah, I say, literally make logo for drag what like Bravo is for the Real Housewives would be everything on it, Like you want to put Drag Race on d H one, Sure, let that be its own thing. But you know they are kind of trying to like Housewives eyes where they wanted to be on all the time. Yeah, well that's the other thing that season it's the episodes are too long. When they're I do too, but like it's because I

don't love the competition. It's like this is a real okay. So for season ten though, and we're going to be gagged because you have you heard about yeah, ninety minute episodes and then on back on television and here's the thing, and this is just me. You can no no, no no no, but Tyler can relate to this, and I'm sure you even can too, and some of them when

I have my relations stop okay. So that just means every time there's an a minute episode, I'm like, all right, this is more writing I have to do on this, and if and if and if we're going to write for a season, tend about the whole two hours, including untucked, Like that is going to be a lot of fucking writing. I'm down with it. Like what, it doesn't bother I will just give a peg behind the curtain right now for drag Race. It doesn't bother me. I love writing

about it, thinking about it, I love watching it. I would rather be my job with Top Model. I want to fucking that's hill myself. I want to bash my head into the wall. Terrible show. I mean, there's show there's nothing worse than recapping I show that you hate. And usually that's why I don't like to recap, because I usually hate what Okay, give us, give us why, well, this is unfair. Example, I recapt Looking the first season, which I turned in like two thousand words for every three. Yeah,

you had things to say. I had things to say about representation interest. Sure I was looking back and like it was probably a little too hard on it. It's important to do too much in those things. But like I was just like, this is but what I learned from looking, and I think I actually wrote a piece about this is like I don't need looking the way

that I thought I needed it. Like maybe ten years ago, by the time I got a show that was about a boring white gay man who like isn't having the sexity wants to be having, I was like, oh, I don't need this because I found I've spent my entire life like identifying myself in other people. Totally, it's easier.

Did not need a mirror reflected on me because to just remind me that I'm boring, that's part of that's all totally, And this is something that I think people are rightfully bemoaning a little bit with this, Like, I mean, it's great, it's amazing just just having that representation and

that being more widespread. But like, part of part of the fun of like being a queer person is just grafting your own narrative on things that just wouldn't normally call for that or normally reference that, things that explicitly in your life. That's interesting and so I don't know, but it's also great, Like looking probably helped a lot of people, right I learned what abakano was because of looking. Did you learn what Perry Parry Chicken was? Oh? Yeah,

and Parry Parry chicken too? Remember how that was? Like insane? Like what excuse me? You want to make what chicken? I mean, look Perry Perry looking was and looking? Do you learn about eating as from? But I did learn any time I do, any time I I treat myself to a little fleet, a little enema, I do think about Jonathan down and just letting the water slip down his app his his colon, that scene of him just

staring at the at them. I feel like that's like there were some educational moments in those in those scenes, and so I appreciate looking for that, but I also completely understand you having that, um, you know, writing from that perspective at the time that I was airing and

you're sort of my age. Well no, I'm just saying like you're you looking back on it being like maybe I didn't need it right, Yeah, I think also because I have regrets about that because I then was like at four parties where Jonathan Graff is around, I was like, oh funk, I never go out. We feel about today's yeah, or And now I'm feel a little subconscious about all the queer guys because they're all They're always on their stories and being like, hey, guys, don't don't be a

hater at like are they talking like? I feel like they're talking about people, and I try to be nice now because literally a struggle I think about lately. Okay, Like the whole center of this podcast is talking about pop culture and we are who we are, and that means that we're a little bit bitchy hashtag a little bit bitchy, um, but also like you gotta be and also it's all for fun. Comes from lighthearted place and it comes from a place of love. If we talk

about anything on this show. It means we cared enough to talk about it. And also, of course we're going to talk about queer eye, and of course we're gonna have reactions to it. So it's not hating, it's just talking about it, and that in of itself is a

celebration of it. However, I do sort of feel sometimes like, oh, man, like I really don't want to be like known as one of the gays that talks about other things like I like, and when I was first kind of when I first moved to the city, Like the first thing I did when I really got to m y U and I was trying to study journalism is I worked at the n y U newspaper and I would write reviews and features about the things that I saw. And

I was just nine years old. I didn't know what I was doing, but I did know that I'd rather be on the other side of it. I was like, I'd rather create the work that people talk about. I don't want to be one of the people talking about it. But now those lines are blurred because I do think it's very creative, and I see what's so creative about, you know, being a part of someone who talks about culture, like I think that you're an artist. I think that, like I think that what we do is like fun

and I think it's creative. But it's an interesting place to be because when we did that, we wrote that piece about Anthony, I kind of I think I was kind of like depressed for four or five days afterwards, and I was kind of thinking, like, why do I feel this way? Is it because I feel like, um, you're not part of what's going on? Not not that, it's just that I don't want to be a critical,

negative person. That's how I felt after Culture. I thought I was like, you know what, I also felt a little bit afterwards, I like in the cab right home, I was just like, was I too mean about some people? Like because I think because I'm not a performance Like I wait through my very brief performance phase, it was like, I don't want to do this. I don't like practicing. I want to show up the amazing leave and just have everyone salute me as the which weirdly never happened,

so not the pet pet. So I was really excited to do it, and then then there's a lot of pressure to like because I was third, I had a match shoal and then yeah yeah, and then also like we didn't think about that. I'm so sorry, no no,

no no, this is all of me. And like then just like the structure of the show, like we're running along, so it's like I gotta get you quick, I gotta be like and I was just like I gotta hit a joke at every single time, and I was like, I'm being an asshole experience for us, so we like we learned so much, Like obviously the first half was crazy long and we were like, okay, we have to dislike course correct. I think the next generation that we do this and it will. I think we'll streamlin things

a little bit more. If you would love, if you would like to be involved, I think we will get it right this time. I just think I just think I just want everyone to always know that last culture is this are always celebrating and are always positive, and that's what I love about I don't think so Honey is Even though I don't think so Honey is inherently negative,

it is also primarily cathartic and celebratory. Yes, And I just want everyone to know that and feel that because I and I think I speak for you as well

want to be someone that makes people feel good. And when I when when when the Anthony Peace came out, And then like later on, we had some friends that hosted the show at UCB where he did monologues at it, and apparently he like mentioned the Vulture piece and like playfully stomped his feet apparently on like she said he didn't like And that made me feel deeply sad because I don't want anyone to ever feel bad as a

result something that we've done. It's unless they deserve it, unless they've done something actually harmful or you know what I mean. And so that's just I just want to make people feel good just and just to go off

of that. Like my first like media experiences or just my diet um in terms of like people commenting on media, um, just in terms of the way that we think about it now, was through like this sort of triumph rate of Tyler Coats, Bobby Finger, Richard Lawson you mentioned the other day, right, like just just like those like like is he Sam Tyrid and I have talked to you about this Tyler a lot about how we would just like I just would like meet up and like talk

to each other about like, oh my god, those people are so cool because they're talking. They're talking about all these different facets of pop culture in such a way that is like I mean, like sure it's snarky sometimes, but also like at the end of the day, it's

like a celebration. It's not like like you don't reduce that down to you don disteal that down to being like, oh they're being negative and mean, and it was this like great moment and so yeah, sorry to bring storry to bring that up, but how do you think about it? Like do you think about that when you're talking about things? Yeah,

all the time. I mean I constantly worry. I mean I think the reason why I was never performed like the why the way I performed online basically like I wrote in like a voice and a character in a way, And I think about that all the time, like how much of myself I'm putting out there. My boyfriend I talked about all the time because we've known each other

for ten years. We dated years ago in Chicago, and he hated my blog bro, like he was just like why are you friends your friends with people on the internet and making air quotes Because podcasting as a visual media you're welcome. I pay attention, and so he was like, these people aren't your friends. Like I'm like, well, I know these people, but I don't know them and it was very weird. Um. And then when I moved here, I met people who I had been Internet friends with

for a long time. I think they had expectations about me. I had expectations about them, even just like becoming a writer professionally, I like freak out about it all the time, like if I I'm constantly worried there's a conspiracy against me because I like upset people from being like a dickhead ten years ago and like that'll keep me back,

which is just snarcissism. Snarcissism, and no one thinks about it when the kind of narcissists who thinks everyone's talking shit about him and at least they're talking at least fucking dare us think? And he doesn't like the piece actinly doesn't like and the hate stage, Yeah, it's terrible. They couldn't care. Then they're also all fucking gorgeous. But like there is this thing like you know, if you put something out on the internet, like people are absolutely

available to like then like they can't. Like you see some celebrities like actually clap back at people, which is like refreshing in a way, sure, but I don't know, it's just like it's it's also like all internet based and so there's no like we strip the humanity out of it, and it's just like these personas like attacking each other. Yeah, you know what it is to it's I think some of those people that get clapped back at by celebrities are asking for that, and I feel

like none of us are asking for me. We're not We're not in this to engage with celebrities over the stuff. Like these trolls online. That's what I don't want to be in with. Like I don't want to be one of these people. That's like, let me say some sheety thing to Michelle Williams, the actress, and see if she tweets back. Like let's let's call someone heavy online and see if they get Can you imagine like, yeah, that's bad.

I mean even when I write profiles of people, I am terrified that they will be like fuck you, Oh my god, dare you misread my entire life? Um So that's I mean, literally every time I published what I'm like I have like a couple of hours until I attack. Yeah, And in many ways that is the most human of endeavors, to really feel through someone else who's been your favorite person to profile. Um. I wrote about com McLaughlin for

the Twin Peaks, which is really fun. I mean I've never had I've never spent like two days with someone like you know, skinny dipping together or whatever, and like we learned something. I think that's like on its way out really well because now we're gonna afford it. Um. But I did, Yeah, I did Commicclacklin. I did justin Vivian Bond and Kenny Malman when they did Kicking and herb again, who like I mean, I love both of

them so much. I love kicking her so much. Um um. Ever, and I wrote a very early profile of her for Flavor Wire. I read that one before rock Bottom came out. Wow kind of responsible. You are responsible? Everyone think Tyler for Bridget Everett. Um, I loved your and your because didn't you up in the com oclockin profile with like him just greeting people. Yeah, I was. I was meeting him at so House and so I was like, well,

that's funny. Already because I'm going to I was like waiting outside because it's early, and he texted me just like an emoji, like a smiley like crying face emoji and like a thumbs up. I was like, I'm on waying like thumbs up. Man was like km o'clock, just e and he just gave you like and he was like super friendly and you know, handsome, and I was just like he's a star. You're amazing. It seems like a great guy. Let's just talk about David Lynch for

an hour. Barata, Who's been the biggest nightmare I've never what I mean? I had to write. I had to write a Brooklyn Macover story for Ellen Page and it was over the phone. So I had five minutes over the phone with Ellen Page on like eight o'clock on a Saturday morning because she's on vacation, and I was just like, there's no way I can get anything good

out of it. So I had to like write Ellen Page as a cold and just be like, well, when you talk to celebrity, you think you're cool, and like, actually it's not that glamorous because they're just on the phone. I have an idea whenever anyone asked you that question again, I have a good answer to say the green eminem because she's exactly what you think. Really stuck up? Is that baby newhere, I think is the voice of it love. I think so, oh my god, she must be making

a lot of great mars barm. I'm really happy for her. Okay, I think it's time. I think it's time to move on. I don't think, so honey. Um. And we've got a um, We've we've got an expert in the form with us, he's judged. Um. I don't think so honey. Is our segment um that we do every episode, and it's our one minute each to rail against something in culture that's really just bothering us and deserves to be taken down. We should say that you should definitely come to our

live show. I don't think, so honey. Lost Culturesa's live at the Bellhouse on March sixteenth at eight p m. We have a great line amazing line up. Okay, so do you want to I can go first? You want to go first? I have a topical one. It is my birthday and I have a topic. And I have a topical one too, But would you like to go first? Since it's your birthday, you make the choice. Um, I'll go first. Okay, so this is Matt Rodgers birthday. I don't think so honey topical as time starts now, I

don't think so honey balloons. When I have in a row with the balloon, I have no idea what the funk is gonna happen. I don't know if it's gonna stay flowing, flow to the ground, and if it's guests one am, I'm not looking at it hits a pin pop. If a balloon pops, I will be so upset. If a balloon pops, it is shocking. No matter who you are, I don't care, and you know less culture racist listeners that I do not deal well with the shocks. I don't think so honey, sudden louder noises, I don't think

any hard fils. So I definitely don't think so honey balloons. Let me tell you something else. Emotionally, balloons bothered me because they signifying moment in my life. When I was a young child and I went to t g I Fridays on an evening and my parents gave me a balloon of my birthday and guess go of the balloon, and the balloon went into mid air and I stared at it, crying, crying, crying. I will never forget standing in that parking lot, Washington. Balloon go. So I don't

think so honey balloons. You can pop, you can fly, you can never do anything right. I don't think so honey balloons. And that's one minute. Wow, wow, amazing. Balloons popping are the great equalizer. Yes, everyone's shocked. It's true. Oh my god, you're right, you know what. I'm okay. I don't think so honey balloons. Never give man a balloon. I think that you would have. You would be hard

pressed to tell me. I think so honey balloons. There is no greater anxiety in the world then a helium filled balloon that gets let go and floats outside and all the way up in the sky. That fucked me up as a kid. I was like, we're like everyone took balloons and sent them out, and like they had like notes attached to them. Thank you. It's you know what, hey, little kids, it's called literally, you're littering the sky and the earth because it'll fall down. Yes, And I'll tell

you one other thing. After a party, when all the balloons are on the ground, and you have to do that thing when you pick up the balloons and you kind of squeeze them to to to pop them, and you never know when enough pressure is going to be enough. So you're standing around like, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, and you really don't know what it's going to happen. Guess what, I have a really good life hack for that. What just get a pin and pop them like that? I mean that's what I was

would normally do. Okay, Um, that was beautiful. Matt, Happy birthday, Thank you. Okay, And this is Bowen Yang's Matt Roger's birthday. Um, this is so funny. I shouted out George Severies on this podcast and he just texted me, Oh my god, high George. I'll tell after he's a wonderful new friend that we have and everyone should check out George. He's a very funny, stand up funny in the New York area. Okay, this is Bowen Yang's I don't think so, honey, and

his time starts now, I don't think so, honey. Dear basketball, what the fuck was that short animated film that won the Oscar? So that means Kobe Bryant has an oscar and we're gonna give him that in the Year of Me Too, which is so fucking ironic. It's disgusting. It is the opposite of delicious irony. It makes me want to hurl. I don't think so, honey, Kobe Bryant for

obvious reasons, but I don't think so, honey. Pamela Mackie his fucking lawyer at an Eagle County, Colorado, who intimidated witnesses, intimidated the accuser so that she didn't testify in court, so the charges were dropped. Kobe Bryant is a fucking rapist, rapist pig. And then seconds animated short sucks. It's a self congratulatory letter and it's a retirement announcement that oh my god, oh my god, it's the there's it's so bad. Let me shout out the amazing other nominees. Garden Party

an amazing, amazing animated short. That's one minute. Then will we will never hear the other ones? That was well, that was the That was the one that I want to get out. Garden Party wasn't Runner Loue by Pixar was the was the close second. I can't believe that one. I can't believe that one. I can't believe that one. The only person on Twitter who like appropriately. The only Twitter figure I'll say who like appropriately like wasn't raged at this was roxand gay. She was like what the fuck?

And I was like, yes, but where why did the rest of us getting rock stand? Every day I have to read her her new stuff. Um, okay, Tyler, that was brilliant that. I think we've had two really good ones. We've had to go and I think Tyler was telling me today, are you gonna do what you said? I think I've been like, this is the thing about I don't think Sony's like John and I do them if we run out of things to talk about. But when

we went to we went to London and Paris. When we were in Paris and like could only talk to each other, we just were like, what else did we talk about? We talked about the day? Okay, I don't think I want to go mom, mart I don't know. I love him the way to pass the time, it's yeah, that's gorgeous, and you learn about each other, but I haven't done in a really long time, so rust it's okay. This is Tyler Coates. I don't think so Honey's time starts now. I don't think so Honey. Jennifer Lawrence is

so authentic. Ship Number one, I believe that she tripped herself when she won that Oscar. No one can prove me wrong. Just try me. Number two. She shouldn't have won that should just chest stain. Miley Cyrus could have done the same. I walked out of sober Let explain book a white woman, and Chelsea yelled at me for overconsum four. I don't know Jennifer Lawrence. She told she

said that she couldn't watch Phantom Threat. She turned it off after three minutes because she's in middle school dropout. She's self educated. She always did that because she's still mad that she broke up with Darren Aronofsky and now he's dating someone younger than her, which the writing was on the role thereoutely watch a couple of movies. Bitch, I'm sorry, mother was bad. Sirus could have done silver Line's Playbook is a true gag for you to say

I disagree. I do believe. I do believe that Jennifer Lawrence was great in that film. No, I'm the whole scene. Like, first of all, everyone has trouble. Well, I guess you could. You just said you like Jennifer Lawrence in that movie. Now I've told you that I hate a Jennifer Lawrence that movie. Listen, here's the thing. Everyone has trouble pointing out, like you know, every best actress movie. Like in the clip, it's like everyone has trouble picking out a clip for

that movie. It's not. It's either her going up to Bradley Cooper being like, so what if I miss I like that about myself. That part or the other part is where she goes and like schools, Robert your and all these fucking Philly stats. I can tell you the clip. I didn't that part, but that that just that whole scene. It's just so like you see the wheel, the gears turning in her head. No, the clip is he's harassing me.

He's lassing me? Was She gave a really good, panicked, anxious performance there, and I think that it was performative because it was the character was doing it on purpose, because that's how she gets a rise out of people. And when she saw that she saw herself and him and his reaction, I thought that was really good, and I thought it was a good romantic comedy performance. I'm

I'm an apologist for her. She thing might tell with her is that if you see her in the Word show and she tries to rudolf a tele prompter, she has nothing to offer because she relies on editing and a director to tell her what to do, and usually he's telling her to play a four year old. I just want to say her like holding a glass of white wine last night and like walking over I was like her publicist told her to do that one just like just she's like walking over the sea, and just

like Jennifer was in her way. It was an empty She was doing that just because she was on display. So I don't know, I mean, you know what, And we celebrate Jennifer because we celebrate culture. I've never I have not said anything negative about Jennifer. I I can stand a little bit after conversation, so um, I loved I loved us. That was so fantasmicst cultured gas we've ever had on everyone else. This is confirmed. Everyone we've

ever had on is garbage. Tyler, thank you so much for having it was very fun friends, very fun for us. Thank you, Thank you, thank you for thank you for being here on my birthday. Oh You're welcome. It's the gifts that I could only give you. Absolutely, How old am I nineteen? Why do you ask? Because when you're nineties, somebody tell love. You gotta billy. When you're ninety being then, love, love, love, Bye Forever. This has been a Forever Dog production executive

produced by Brett Bahum, Joe Silio, and Alex Ramsey. For more original podcasts, please visit Forever Dog Podcasts dot com and subscribe to our shows on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Keep up with the latest Forever Dog news by following us on Twitter and Instagram at Forever Dog Team and liking out page on Facebook. M