Welcome to link time chat. and David doing things. Like waving his hands around for all who cannot see him I was doing that for their benefit, and when I say their benefit, I mean the listeners. Obviously, because I think they could probably hear the disturbance of air as you were waving your hands, they could you want to know something amazing that I just learned about.
There is a camera that is so sensitive that it can capture the vibrations in an in like you know, a video so that it can actually reproduce the sound. That would be horrible for our current sound environment, I feel like because one okay we've got instruments hanging behind us, so if you've never seen the video she may not realize this, you can hear them oh.
Erica go, so they would actually show it so imagine, though, if that got magnified through this this sort of camera also I have found that we are close enough to the pool in our complex that. You can hear kids screaming in the background yeah or adults, I don't know who's doing the screaming there's a lot of screaming sounds like kids, but if you could imagine, like all those disturbances being magnified I feel like.
It would be very distracting yeah, can you imagine though a photograph of a trumpet player from like years past and they can produce the sound he's making. That would just be crazy that would be bizarre anyway welcome today's topic was actually one that was inspired by our work outside of link time. Because we had a line for something that we were translating and the verb in English, was to have. But it didn't make any sense for the language we were working with to use that same verb.
It also didn't make sense and the overall structure of the sentence, you know, like when you start semantically breaking it down thinking well why in the world is English even us have in this particular way. And so we decided to focus today on sort of a deep dive into translation strategies for specifically for a semantically bleached verb in your own language.
And so we're going to look at to have today and we each had an assignment had an assignment and speaking of to have yeah and where we were supposed to come up with a list of ways that we use have an English. That probably wouldn't necessarily be translated the same way.
and other languages, your, and so I don't know if you did didn't bring anything have related to the table, other than my copy of the world let's kind of grammatical ization she notes the superior when I brought my cellular telephone. Do you to know that on phone now you learn telephone on phones they have this kind of digital paper imagine imagine a note that you write just on a notepad, but it could be on your telephone.
That is just too bizarre for me to consider it's like this camera with vibrations that you're trying to talk about yeah i'm so also used to have like twice in that sentence and so that was fun oh how by indeed. So actually and I don't even think we're going to touch on using have for grammatical purposes, like supporting as an auxiliary for it wasn't the intent, but I can actually explain how we got it.
Oh go for it but but we'll get there, one thing that reason, I wanted to bring this down as the world lexicon of grammatical ization is that there's an entire section on this. Because it's called I believe he possession. And this is alpha ties right. From the top for the yeah see source have C H possession, yes, and do you think that a hyphen comes before everything.
Every tentatively it doesn't wait it's very well, it became a possessive right, I mean it's showing all the sources to target so yeah look up the upended you're right, I need to look up maybe you need to reread that tutorial I created on patreon for how to use the world but. Maybe have a little write up you know for each possession in general that's what I wanted.
He is now looking in the index, I believe that it's all under possessive, though, and then I think it breaks it down into it's a something and then age. I think yeah okay be possessive and H possessive Erica and a possessive. don't know what to be possessive is well today is something we can talk about on. Other days unless know you're going to go there and I am going to go they're going to go back.
To. What I just want, I just want to look real quick it's always super fun on podcasts when the people doing the podcast take a break, to read a book oh belong to belong possessive. Okay, so let's get back to age possessive is this where we got our grammatical ization of to have. So this is actually how we got the the the. The the one for to have so.
All right, I want you to imagine for a moment, go back in time and imagine this okay new we're a language, English, that has only really two verb forms. Past in a non past and so like I bind to a book I bound a book all right now, imagine that we already have this verb have which we did the H possession have so you could say, I have a book, I had a book, just like you could in Latin.
And then imagine this language also has participants, and so you could say I bound a book, but you could also say that there is a bound book a bound book is on the table. All right. Now you can combine these and say that you have a bound book all right. Now, though, there is another way thing that you could do here. I have a book. In a State, so, in other words it's kind of like I paint the wall red right, you can have a red wall, but you can also paint a wall red.
And so you can bind a book, but you can also have a book bound alright so suddenly you have this expression, I have a book bound and there was a reinterpretation. As a side now i'm very suddenly now realizing why Chairman verbs are at the end when the parts that are not participle but the auxiliary in its place so. That is exactly how that happened and exactly how that analyzed as the the quote main verb of the sentence yeah and then an English.
They were like that's so weird that we have this verb here, and this verb at the end, why don't we just put the verbs together and suddenly you get I have found a book. meeting was there ever a stage in English and really I should know this more than you but i'm asking anyway, if there is a stage where the same thing happened with the. Present participle kind of version, where it was like I am a book writing I have absolutely no idea, and so I don't either.
And I don't think so, I think that actually came from a completely different set of circumstances, but that is an interesting little i've actually been very curious about that present participle because I wonder how far back you're supposed to go. Where that wasn't just the normal way to do the present tense.
Because it's like if he started thinking about is like in the 1800s like not know pretty much they they did use B plus axing for the present tense in the 1800s and it's like well how far back, do you have to go before it is the usual way to say what do you I eat. I used to know this. But I honestly can't be on knowing that in middle English is when it became more more codified, and so it became a more set way of doing it. But there was definitely early middle English you still saw the.
I eat know. Some Q something or he something you know, like you still see those kinds of patterns. But it was that transition, which is why, like there's there's a lot of theories about why it came about and, like some people have even said it was partially from the old English. The Anglo Saxon interaction with the Celtic language speakers, because there is a similar construction and Celtic languages that that they thought might have affected.
But that's also just a theory there's no clear reason but definitely old English you're going to see that just straight up present tense be be used. it's really as it gets into middle English stages, where you start to see it become a set pattern across. Not just certain dialects but eventually across all dialects of English so somewhere between chaucer and Shakespeare basically yeah and I need to look at chaucer again to see if chaucer even. uses that simple present tense as much as we.
may have died, I honestly haven't one. shoulder sota the draft on march 8 person to the role turns on exactly. But i'm going to say because yeah yeah the the Th, which was the the present tense without having the to be blinking so. So yeah between chaucer Shakespeare would be a good time dream if you're interested in that particular phenomenon cool, but that has nothing to do with to have.
The initial one did and that's super interesting because that made a light bulb moment go off for me with German, I never questioned why it happened, I didn't question why all the English had similar structures as well. And that is super fascinating alright so let's talk about to have those so some of the first examples that came to mind were really obvious ones right. The ones where it's like well it's obviously an idiom that have is used as the verb for and so.
It feels more in your face that you would have to do something different, with it, when you translate so some of the more in your face examples that I came up with Okay, excuse me while I move that window over. So I have like a summer more obvious list like to have a cow right don't have a cow man Oh, I see let's start with the second one, to have a fit. Yes, something I never do because you never do when you know you're translating things you never have a fan.
I think that this this to have a fit it's kind of like it was one of the starting points for a broad metaphorical extension that. That works for a ton of stuff so it covers a ton of stuff So if you start with to have a book right where it's a very literal thing that you can actually see. And then you talk about well okay your third one actually has a different meaning but I mean literally to have like an organ inside of you to have a stomach to have a liver.
To have a brain right that's a different type of thing because you can't see it, but you know there's possession there. When it comes to medical conditions, though it's it's kind of a Gray area, so we have to have a fit in the oldest sense, you know. Now it means to get mad but older, to have a fit meant something like a sickness. And then you could also have like a coughing fit, yes, and then you can have a headache a heart attack and things like that.
And so that was, I think one of the first extensions right some sort of a medical episode it's something that's happening to you, but it's in your body. And so you can't see it you can't see it, but you can kind of have it the same way that you have the organs that are inside of your body right, and so, if you'll accept that, then it wasn't too far to go to say something like to have a headache. To have the vapors to have a fit to have a heart attack.
So I think that was one of the first branch offs and so suddenly it was like now, you can have these things that are very real that you can see, but. That you can see the effects that but you can't see the actual things so off the top of my head thinking about these kind of medical extensions and we can we can get to you mentioned the third one on my list we'll get to that in a minute.
But other ways I can think about semantically talking about, that is, you don't have a heart attack you experience, one where you. walk through one or you sit in a heart attack or you like these are all different verbs I could imagine being metaphorically extended in the same kind of situation. Without actually using to have and, in fact, if you want to look at a language, where you don't use have for this, the most common thing is to have a very.
Basic verb that means to suffer, and I think one of the reasons that we shy away from that in English is that. Since we had have and it's so useful music in so many ways we didn't really have to use suffer and so then suffer underwent to generation essentially. Because they usually just mean so like to feel or to endure it right, but suffer now has a very negative connotation.
suffer, though, that came from Latin, so we had to have an older oh yeah ticklish word that i'm trying to think of what it is, I should know this. My brain is is rotting in the summer months, this is sometimes where Adam online or which scenario is useful, because sometimes they will tell you like this word supplanted this older edge word.
But with that, though, there can be languages that have words that means something like suffer that has a much more neutral interpretation that's kind of like undergo yeah. And so, when you talk about things like fits or heart attacks or you just use this verb and. that's totally you it is totally me and it doesn't mean anything like it doesn't mean anything bad necessarily just by itself, whereas suffer on its own is very negative connotation.
So that's something that, as an English speaking con linger that you have to kind of like. You know, remove from your mind that sephora necessarily has to have a negative connotation to it because that'll take care of a lot of these yeah. Do we need to pause for a second did you need to grab that phone call no i'm okay Okay, because we can pause and come back, but yeah okay so.
Another thing, so you had mentioned the internal organs, and again I could think of some different strategies, including just having to reward the entire thing like a heart lies within me you're. A brain is inside, you know, like some sort of like copula or state of verb that indicates that it, it is just there, rather than saying, like, I have a brain or I have a stomach you could come up with different strategies that way.
Now, one of these relates to my third idiom that I had on the list, because you can have a heart obviously this organ beating inside your chest, but you can also use that metaphorically, to talk about somebody who is kind or good and say Oh, they have a heart.
Or you could even like make it like they have a good heart, they have a kind heart, they have a soft heart, they have you know, like all these different types of hearts that we can metaphorically possess or the negative that to not have a heart, which I think is. I don't even I mean it's hard to guess where it came from, but it's like the idea is.
If you don't have a heart, then you don't have the positive aspects associated with having a heart right then that's the extension like I don't think if you ever said to me Oh, that person has a bad heart. I feel like my first interpretation of that would always be with oh like heart attack or heart, you know something going on medically I could, if with enough context get the metaphorical reading of like oh bad hard as and not a good person or whatever.
But, like my very first thing if I if I hear you say Oh, they have a good heart, I feel like i'm going to go metaphorical, but if you say they have a bad heart i'm going to go medical. Even though a good heart could be descriptive of a very healthy.
Well pumping Oregon I don't know like that's that's sort of interesting that I would very instinctively take those different ways if I just heard them, given all the cholesterol I pushed through it, I have to think my heart is pretty good like it can endure a lot. Indeed. straw for not giving up yet yeah. Yes, yes, so anyway, that that is another thing and with some of these idioms like like to have a heart that are so entrenched in how you use them.
It can be really difficult to realize that what you're saying is actually something that another language would not only restructure but use completely different words. In the restructuring yeah so you have to like dig behind it and say, well, what are you actually saying.
When you tell someone have a heart or you know something like that, what do you actually telling them and so doing that I think is one of the more difficult parts of translating but it's also, I think one of the fun parts, where you have to completely reformulate the entire thing. To make it work in that language yeah. And I just say difficult, because then you can't use the concepts you can't just be like Oh, I have a word for hard, I have a word for half.
You can't use any of that information and so that's what makes it more difficult, but it's also, I think. super fun to be like, how would these speakers, you know, think of being a quote good person or kind person and how would they. You know Compare that to something else it's very rewarding when you come up with something that is that works very well and and it's quite clever and you're very proud of, I mean honestly, those are the moments I live for calling yeah.
And it's also especially fun when when somebody else comes up with it and it's just like wow I didn't even have to do anything. Okay, but it's like it's also super fun when you come up with something that you're happy about and and the person you're working with it's like oh my God that's brilliant and. it's really good it's a great feeling, so all around a lot with justin. minute blush. And so.
yeah big grumpily stomach so if the camera where we're really getting all the vibrations, I think the whole photo would be shaking at this point I couldn't hear it. We we call my my stomach my little Jesse because it's very talkative sometimes can I add just something you keep talking Okay, so I also. Right, so do we want to continue with body parts, since you just jumped to the list, where there's another body part that means something else.
Or do you want to go on to because another big area is sort of TIM poorly related hmm well let's do this one, first because it's kind of fun, the one I just did something with Ray so I was my original was to say like to have your back to someone. Whereas David just put the to me or to someone in parentheses, and to have someone's back it is yeah that's obviously different that's obviously very metaphorical and to have somebody back to you, it could be metaphorical, but it also going to be very.
Very standard well what I mean by that is not. It is metaphorical, of course, in the conceptual sense. But it's it's more about blocking and other words like you just say Oh, that person has their back to me right now the same way, you could say that person has their front to me, I mean less common but it's still possible and it's simply referring to spatial location.
And yeah that is a strange strange turn of expression, it really is this person is standing like you know with their back facing me with their back toward me or whatever, but it's like now, they have their back to me. it's yeah it's a very hard time honestly. One of the reasons I put it on the list, but it's also further down on on that part of the list. which by the way, I have this is really all part of the more what I call more obvious that there's something going on part of my list.
We haven't even started thinking about the what I considered the less obvious ones, which I think can be super tricky. When you're translating because you don't even realize that it's not necessarily the way other people would do that but anyway getting back to like to have someone's back.
that's like to have a heart, where you're going to have to really recreate the entire meaning thinking about you know what does it actually mean, and so you know, an English to have someone's back means you support them you're behind them you're. yeah it's also a strange use of help, though isn't it, it really is like. it's not even just like with the you know you don't even have to use have you can say i've got your back yeah right it's slightly different but.
Yes, that's a strange thing well in what's intro okay Okay, speaking of switching over to God mm hmm you can just do a very simplified I got you right like that means like I have your back essentially i've got I got you or I have got you. But if I say I have you. totally different meaning for me yeah or like if you have someone that that to me indicates something very different it's really interesting too, because you can't say i'm on your back that means something different.
yeah However, you could you do use that with like you know. We call it, you know planes and stuff so it's like you know i'm on i'm on a six i'm on your sex and so on. And that i'm on your tail yeah i'm on your tail. On your sale, and I have your tail can you say I have your town now I guess not it was just tricking that's.
Not unless i'm talking to a cat and i'm literally holding their tail and i'm like I have your tail said that many Joe or if it's a Halloween costume and it's like i'm holding up the tail to your costume yeah for your persona then. went there, and I mean. That that harkens back to our last patron live stream where David went weird at one point and and so, but I could have more doesn't sound like me. So, with the to have your back to somebody there is a there is a lot of.
constructions in English, where you have the the verb thing and then the how use a preposition or phrase to say how it affects you so something else you could say it's like you know I had my card die on me yeah. And then that uses have it doesn't need to because you also say my car died on me but. I think if you say I had my car died on me it's more puts you more in focus, or like it puts you more.
In it, and it's more like an experience and so it's a bigger deal vs my car died on me it's like yeah that sucks. But like I have my car died on me yeah you're exactly right it puts it, like our focus is on you experiencing it, so I guess what they have does they're essentially brings it closer to you. It really does that's what it feels like huh so some sort of emphatic strategy yeah but speaking of also body parts to have someone by the throat.
is again could be literal but usually, when you use it it's metaphorical for like the exact opposite of having your back it's now i'm in control and I have something on somebody else. In fact that's actually a weird kind of construction in itself move.
Talking less metaphorical and more literal because you can have somebody by almost anything and mean it literally many of those have been extended, but like you'd say you know I had them by the rest, you know it's same as I held him by the rest, but man just say, have. Which is a strange thing, I think, because you're saying the first part, I have him which doesn't resolve, I think.
Like if there's no clear, meaning that comes to mind, and so, then you add the propositional phrase which helps to define it, which to me was always a weird thing it happens, also in Spanish, if you say something like you know. Love is that a man knows which is wash your hands, but what it literally is is wash yourself the hands.
Which is something that I also found very strange, and this is that same type of thing so it's like this, the same day job by the hair yeah German does something similar where it's. Like to wash or to clean. something and then it's like you have to say, like MIA, which is, to me, you know the teeth, or whatever, and so it's like you, you do, that same kind of situation where you don't say.
My teeth, like you, don't say like i'm brushing my teeth you say like I brush to me the teeth and it's really weird because in English in Spanish and in German. You we have these possessive adjectives right, we can say my teeth in English, Spanish and German there's nothing wrong with it, but in these constructions we.
issue it, for whatever reason mm hmm it's really it is really interesting and I don't like it, by the way, because then I feel like I have to do it in these languages that we create and it's like it never makes sense to me I don't like it, but it's like well, I have to do it sometimes. But that OK, so those by the way, I also mentioned another one on my list While talking about to have someone by the throat.
Because, then I said that means like i've got something on you, where you can have something on someone meaning like I can bribe you because I have the secret or I have knowledge or I have you know information about you, that it could be used against you. And so, that is another interesting one that it, it makes sense when you break it down like semantically why it's there, and yet again when you're approaching it from another language you would.
Have a very differently potentially now just potentially but probably. I actually have no idea how to say that in any language other than English, and that includes any of the languages i've created i've no idea to say that I feel like you would almost have to break it down for some languages causally to say like they know.
Information they like because really the concept, there is like they know something or they have evidence, they possess evidence, they are touching evidence, they hold evidence against me. yeah and so it's like you. You would almost I feel like it would almost be broken down with some relative class structures are very different verbs that that's good to be something like that I don't but it's like it feels like if we have an expression for it in English.
It seems pretty like there's a pretty good chance they got expressions for sure sure, and I just you know never I suppose that's not something that you really talk about a lot in language classes right right like, how do you blackmail someone. These are, these are really important lessons. But that would be interesting one place to find that information I feel like.
would be in court documents, because that would be you know, like do they have evidence against you do they what you know what do they talk about. When they're charging somebody if they have a kind of court system like we do if they don't then at that point, you know, not even sure how they would talk about it.
But yeah it does seem pretty reasonable that would be a an expression at some point in the language Then again, you could also conceive of a society where like that so taboo like you don't keep secrets about other people, and like use it against them that. You would have to do a whole phrase a whole class of situation it's also weird because I mean one is using the have but also that it was on you, because you just say something about you, but doesn't work yeah.
Because yeah if I say, I have a story about you then i'm just going to be telling a story about you, is no big deal. But if I will you can even say stuff like this, many menacingly it's like I have information about you, yes, but you can't say I have something about you. Oh yeah you can yeah it's gone on, but also if you say I have information about you i'm less likely, you would have to really say it menacingly or in a context where be Superman missing versus I have information on you.
That immediately makes me step back and go oh there's something going on here versus like I have information about you could be like super basic like oh yeah I know your birthday, or like I already know this information, social security number or whatever yeah. I. can do whatever I want with it, but there's also speaking of to have something right, we also have like these really interesting, you can have it out.
You can have in for you can have it bad yeah and I wrote these down, especially have it out, so all three of those are strange, but you can have it out for somebody or you can have it out with somebody and they mean two entirely separate separate things yeah. I mean, I think that the first one makes more sense, so if he says something like I have it out for him. You could imagine that thing being a sword, you know you have it out and it's for him to have it out with someone.
makes a lot less sense. And if you just say to have it out the implied meaning is the with someone meaning, yes it is like, if you say we, you know dot X and y had it out like you understand that they were fighting they. You know they had some words there's another guys to have some more yes. I think that these two could be related because if you have it out for somebody, then the implication is they haven't got it yet.
Okay, otherwise Why would it be for them re re it's kind of like say if I have a present for you the automatic interpretation is that you don't have it yet right and then, if you have it out with somebody you can't do anything with anybody unless. you're both there by, and so you have it out for somebody, then you go and have it out with them. Together it's a together activity.
But yeah, these are all and I don't really necessarily want to focus on each of those in turn because there's a lot there. And there are still some other ones, I want to get to, on the other part of the list yeah, but we also have a lot of time expressions. Because we in English treat time as something that you can own possess in us.
And you know there's like a time as money metaphor right, you can save time spend time, etc, but that also means you can have time, which means you can you know, have the time to read you can have time to cook so you can have time, in that sense, but you can also more metaphorically. You can have a day like if I just say oh i've had a day, you know that that means it wasn't a good day. Or you can also have the time of your life, you can.
You know, like there's all of these different ways that we've been applied that but it all comes back to the fact that, in English, we treat time as something you can possess. and not all languages do that, and so this one, I think, is super tricky because I know a lot of people want to dig in. In our streams to like what about concepts for time and things like that, but you really have to break it down and think how do they how do they view it, because if they view.
For instance, time is something you see passing by then you can't own it you can't take it you can't possess it. So instead you're going to have to you know, maybe you saw a time or maybe you, you know see a day or that's right that's actually a really like it it's really a good expression, I like that idea I saw today. did something like that and Lillian i'm trying to remember what that was actually the language I was thinking of because.
The concept of time and valerian is like water running, which means it's passing by and so say I remember one of your conceptual metaphors was that the water hitting the rock. And whirling around it, you had something you explained it to me, and it was so cool and now that's like you don't even remember that's right yeah. Really yeah I totally thought that was valerian. Wrong one yeah but anyway in another language is.
Viewing you know the running water, as time that really puts you outside it, and running water is not something you can have possess or. really do things because it's no longer running if you yeah if you take it up river. And so you would do you would experience and talk about time very, very differently, all the way down to what verb you would use, you know with it. Just to be able to say things like I have time to see you. or whatever yeah. Or if I just asked you have time.
Early is just asking, I have the time of my life to see you. can't make some can't go mixing those metaphors. It doesn't work. But that is also interesting that to me like. If you just say Oh, she had a time or she had a time with it like that's negative versus Oh, she had the time of her life, like is always going to be positive, even if, like, so to say something negative like she had you have to say she had the worst time of her life, where she had. A horrible time of her life.
Like you have to like actually modify it. In ways to make it negative yeah. And then, of course, in my head i'm singing the song and watching the lift happen had the time of my life, I would not have a good time, if I had to do that list there's David doing the lift with his hand wasn't very good, it was not nobody saw that. They will on YouTube okay so some of these then like. kind of go back and forth, because some of them are maybe less obvious versus more obvious on my my list here.
But one thing that I have come up against I know we're thinking about languages is that it is, I think kind of odd that, in English, we do treat so many things as possible. to the point where like you can have a car right, which means I own a car, but then you can also just say Oh, I have a son. And like that puts owning a person sort of in the same category right as owning these very physical possessions.
And so, this gets to you know, like alien double in inalienable these kinds of ideas, but it's also just like the concept of how would the language handle. Having like in a family line, I have a father, I have a son like that's. Very English way of saying it yeah i'm, this is one of the first kind of Aha moments for me because either in this one studying Arabic. Arabic doesn't have a verb for to have at all and, by the way, this is something that case this hasn't come across it there's some.
Language that don't have a verb for each position they don't have a verb or to have but Arabic uses two different prepositions for having, for example, a car and and mother so it'd be you know i'm the say yeah. And and it's kind of like a preposition that means at her on so it also doesn't have a verb for to be there's no to be in here. So it's a nice idea at me as a car with no is but Lee for. Mother would be you know.
The room right so we're mother and I have no idea i'm just nodding to be like that's by no means mother is my mother so Leone and that's I have a mother leia, which is, I have a brother. And, and again no for to be there and and this, by the way this preposition it doesn't flecked but the pronouns and Arabic can be attached to.
prepositions the way they can be two verbs and so on these I have on the Chi would be you have your man i'm lucky, you have your woman and so on, and the same thing with the only and. A lucky lucky lucky so yeah that is so that's I think super cool. And then also along with like separating out like actual possessions that can be had versus ones that can't that you don't own. is also our differences to say like. I have a son meaning like in general, like.
that's just in general versus to have a baby, or like Oh, she had a son, yesterday you know, like yeah meaning to give birth and we use it in the same. We use the same verb yes, we can use different you know ones, obviously, if we want to say, like Oh, she gave birth yesterday, but you can be having a baby meaning you're pregnant. Or you can be like actively having a baby mean you're giving birth, but we used to have there in so many situations which again is not something that that you would.
To do yeah it's a really weird trick have to list it with the same person because it's like you know, I have a daughter, that means I have a daughter right now. I had a daughter, it meant that you know, I was associated with somebody who gave birth to a daughter, but it's also something that you could say after they've died, I had a daughter. And you know I don't anymore. And it's a different.
interpretation you with each of those things, one is like an ongoing you know state another one is an event a tea like event, you know, the idea that. I mean, even though it does doesn't just happen like that, when you give birth, you know the ideas, one point, you did what you did. Just just happened like a sneeze yeah versus you know if you say something like you know I had a great grandfather that's also it's not necessarily T like that it was like.
Well, I guess, it is, but it's like it's not looking at it as a change of state, it was there was a state that occurred, for a long period of time and that period has ended. You know yeah yeah I will say they the ambiguity disappears when you take it out of children, because as soon as you say, like. I have a father or I had a father it's true you know pointed somebody think you gave birth right right um it's only if it's you know baby child.
daughter or son or so on, yes, and so that's like the only way that we have that but. But then that is also like and actually going back to the Arabic example, would there be a different preposition for like Okay, so I have a mother. But then I have a boyfriend or I have a husband is very different know us leave for that, and when I say leave that means I you know, on me right right. You know, different pronouns for the different ones, but you'd easily, as well as, like, I have a friend or.
Because obviously those relationships are very different, so I could can see by the language actually using different verbs or add positions. To talk about the different levels of quote having when it's things like okay everybody has a mother so it's like that's going to be a very like. inalienable kind of thing versus you know, having a relationship like a friendship, or something that you know, is a little bit more, and surely alien Abul. But still being very different from like I have.
A table yeah. which also sometimes doesn't even mean I own it you could just say, I have a table in my apartment. But maybe that furniture came with the apartment and it's not actually yours it's just like oh yeah it is there is a table and in the apartment yeah and I so sorry now i'm just like. really gets in your head when you start thinking about the ways that you use your own language and that's also OK, so in other ones, speaking of objects that you can have like to have glasses.
or to have contacts. which usually, when you say that what you're actually saying is not like I own them what you're usually saying is actually something more along the lines of I need help, seeing. yeah and so like I can be on the phone with somebody and they could be like you know talking about something. I don't I don't know like having to wear 3D glasses at a movie or something and I can be like Oh, I have glasses.
And what i'm really saying is like, I have to wear these other ones to see and that's going to make it hard for me to put the 3D glasses on because they never fit over the actual glasses that you're wearing. But like you can use it in a way that actually doesn't have anything to do with the fact that you're trying to point out that you own them you're trying to point out like I can't see without them, indeed, because you know I have glasses, but right now I don't have glasses frame.
True they're both true, and so what David is pointing out is that most of the time he can't actually see yeah this is this is also like one of those places where. You know, we think about changes in verbs is being on the verb and here it's like an article. So it's like. saying I have my glasses doesn't mean the same thing as I have glasses. base if you say I have my glasses, then i'm assuming you have with you there on you they're on you.
Which doesn't mean that they're necessarily on your face just somewhere with you um but yeah that that does really change or if you say, I have the glasses now it's like yeah you're like. Holding a pair of glasses we've been discussing not that you necessarily need them or that there anything related yeah. That is really interesting that that completely changes.
it's kind of the same thing when people are asking about we have valerian it's like well there's no distinction between you know and so like shouldn't any of these translations in English be okay it's like. yeah but it's like with the tense you're using and the context, here it makes much more sense for this in this situation to be indefinite this one to be definite it's it's it's a weird type of thing where it's like it doesn't necessarily matter what's there and what isn't there.
The interpretation can be very strong unless you really build up a context to force it to be something different right right. But um These are all things that again I feel like they're less obvious by way of being idiomatic. In the way that we we use them in our daily life, because I feel like it would be super tempting if we were handed a line that says, you know. I don't know. Bobby has glasses, and so we you know in translating that look at it and think Okay, you know.
here's what we need, but we would need to really step back and say what are they actually saying and we may end up. Even having to throw the whole line out and be like start over and say you know yeah it could be like something different, like you can imagine, of language that uses the verb need there instead or use right yeah. Anyway, by the way, looking at the time i'm knowing what you gotta do you got a list here.
We do have a list, but also like there's a lot that we could can play and just once, we could throw out to be like hey remember again things we don't think about as much. Like oh i'll have the fish at a restaurant where what you're saying is i'm ordering or this is please bring me this thing. say the waiter you know i'll have the fish is like Oh, you will you think that's gonna happen. you're gonna pay for it.
Oh, my gosh i'm already like to have a party which means you know that's a tough one, that is a tough one, because then all the other ways that I was about to say are also very specific to English to throw a party to hold a party. And so it's like these are all very English tea, and so you would need to really again think about what what does that actually mean for your speakers to host gosh throw it throw is very weird you can throw a party and throw a party, a shower.
Oh, but if you have a shower you're more likely talking about actually bathing. yeah like i've had a shower today versus i'm throwing a shower for someone. I could say, I had a shower meaning like somebody a through a shower for me for with gifts and you know baby shower wedding shower whatever.
But like that would really take context, otherwise, if you just out of the blue said Oh, I had a shower I would assume what you meant was you were in water yeah and imagine how much world building and just background information goes into the expression to have a vacation. is just so much. It implies so much as yes, it really does also to have a dream to have a goal to have potential.
These are all again very like you need to get inside the space of what does that mean, I think one of my favorite pairs though was like to have power hmm because I can without context. Ferry obviously to me take two very different meanings I have power, meaning, like the electricity is working versus I have power, meaning like i'm in charge.
Which in charge, then leads to electricity, anyway, but those are very, very different but it's like why I have power would mean I possess the electric currents that are currently running and actually running. Because like that. I don't maybe you don't talk about it as much when your power doesn't go out as often.
But, especially where i've lived in the past that was a very big deal, do you have power, do you not have power when speaking specifically about utilities and whatnot or like some people would actually build like little cabins that didn't have power at all. But they were you know really meant for like hunting cabins or the grid cabins and so yeah if you think about the like what this buys us by saying this is, if you were to speak more literally.
You would be losing a lot when you'd be bearing elite quite a bit because, basically, something that would be more literal again the all of this is couched conceptual metaphor, but something that would be more literal would be to say you know, do you have power, you could say. Yes, there is electricity running to the House or yes there's electricity running to my house right now.
And so it's like as in of itself metaphorical for the running yep and it's like you have to get so far before you get to the my house part right right. And it's just like and also there is constructions are just kind of clunky. it's so much easier if you put the like you know the subject right in front and then you just use this bleached verb and then the thing yeah you know. It makes it a lot easier and a lot quicker and it also gives the person, the information they want quicker.
Because we're so least I have do you have power it no it's not that we're lazy we're trying to be efficient, otherwise we'd be wasting time i'm. Always yell at my students when they say. You know, like Oh, they did it because they're lazy speaker or whatever and it's like no it's efficiency is not laziness if you realize, you can use.
A lot less to get the same meaning across you would be silly to not use that a lot less, and so you know, save your time for the more important things, so you have time later. I want to put a pin in that or at least just musing that, for one reason often you'll see commoners get sidetracked where it's like. or a linguist to it's like no language ever does this or con layer says, you know i'm going to have my language, have you know 5 billion words for the seventh page of a book.
And it's like if you're looking at natural languages, I wish I could get these con layers and these linguists, in the same room to tell them there's a reason why natural languages are the way they are. it's not the case that languages can't do these things it's just not very practical.
that's why and there's really no other explanation needed beyond that it's not like oh it's impossible for language learning the sorts impossible for a human being to learn this that's ridiculous no. it's just not practical not efficient digression um okay so as a side note yeah.
Another way of saying, do you have power that I could envision asking in a language, where electricity is a thing or you know, whatever would be something like deer lights burn hmm meaning like are they I like that something or it could be noise related. Is your House crackling. You know, like you could think about all these different ways to be like, how could they say that you're right like at the point where.
there's a very short expression in English, if you need three sentences to convey the same thing in your language, you may start thinking like Is this something they talked about a lot, because if so they're going to shorten it. they're not going to keep doing that very inefficient way of speaking, unless it is again like something that. Maybe electricity is so uncommon in your world that like you really do need three sentences, because people will be like wait wait, they have white.
And you would need to actually explain the concept and and whatnot to be able to translate that sentence well you know we were watching. The gilded age in there was actually a kind of topic around town, there is electricity in that house yeah you know. And that was a story at the time, you know, and that was certainly true of our world at one point in time it's not anymore, but there was a time where it's like.
Probably you'd be more likely to say there is electricity at same place because simply bit they're being electricity, that was the news right right. You know what's interesting. I would never say for a house mm hmm. Maybe it no Let me take that that never I don't think I would say, for a house the power is on. I would say the power is out, I would not say the power is in. The electricity is out fine, but I would not say the electricity is in.
me I could say I could say on but no, but the out and in oh versus like if I say the electricity is all i'm assuming somebody turned it off like you didn't pay your bills versus the electricity is out, meaning like there was a natural disaster, but I can't say it's in. I can say it's on but not in. Well that's because that's not the type of out, it is it's the it's the metaphor of a filled jar so you can be out of liquid in the JAR or not enough liquid in the JAR.
Would you be full I don't know there's. I don't know. there's electricity in the House, you can say that, yes, yes there's liquid in the JAR. But you can't just say electricity isn't just like you can't say the liquid is in. huh wow okay So these are all all things to think about and I think we do our minds yeah we did because that's I mean like forget electricity it's like.
There is no water in the JAR the water is out there is liquid in the JAR the waters and you can't say it, why not, but you can say the doctor isn't. Okay, so this was really what I hope a fun deep dive into something very specific. That, I think, sometimes we take for granted, when we are speaking, you know in our native languages are your first languages or even a second language, you know very well.
These are just things that you can do without really thinking about conceptually what do they mean and how would How would another language use these things. And sometimes you don't have to overthink it for some languages, they also use have in these situations, and so, for some of them it's like. that's fine you know you don't have to reconceptualize every single use have to have.
or whatever words you're working with, but if it has been semantically bleached for a language you're very familiar with and you're trying to translate it into another language. It can be really fun to choose different verbs that gets semantically bleached and in their own ways to translate these you know new, by the way, it'd be fun to to have this list to the. You know the. Actual yummy and then we never even got to your list, and so we got this you did it.
hit all yours yeah all mine are on there I couldn't believe that you, you got both you have to have out and have it in fours like I thought I was really clever coming up with those oh. It was clever we're just both clever yeah oh alright, well, we hope that you had fun and know every time. or had a laugh, as we had this chat during our podcast. I know, no i'm not going to stop sorry it's gonna get really out you're gonna have to. But we.
say I don't know why I said, but there that was totally the wrong conjunction, I really should have said and. You know, and so in Russian army in sport and, in part, well perfect I was doing a little Russian moment. And we're, but we hope you have a wonderful week slash month until next time we hear or see you, and in the meantime. Stay grammar grammar bye everybody. Where did the okay i'm gonna have to really remember it so you go back.