LangTime Chat, Episode 26: Triconsonantal Roots

Many questions come in at mount many so many we've had questions come in about a topic in particular that David knows way more about than I do, and so. he's going to be in charge of answering all the tough questions today. If I can think of really good questions to ask otherwise you're just in charge of disseminating important information mm hmm. But the topic of the day is try continental roots it's not how you pronounce that.

No now every time I say continental you're like that's not how that's not how it's pronounced either, so I think I should be able to say anyway, I want so let's try continental mental. Mental yeah try continental try continental that just sounds like it should be a continent, instead of a country well that's how it's pronounced like seriously, do you think anybody saying continental.

No, I was saying continental and you're like that's wrong it's not right, and so, and so I wonder, you know what i'm gonna pull up my dictionary consonant. Continental. it's in the dictionary as a pronunciation that's wrong you can't pronounce it that way you obviously can and enough people do that it's made it into the dictionary we've been through linguistics if you've ever heard another human being, say continental yeah I just.

said another human being, I am multiple people in one, you are absolutely not if there's anybody who's less have more than one person it's you. Know it's a one dimensional what wow that you are singular and unique. Okay, thank you. Okay, so we're gonna be talking about consonants. And when what happens when you have three of them in a group. David is is gone.

And so, David, first and foremost, I want to talk about how not to do this because I happen to remember that make debbie, this is one of these languages yeah. And so I feel like that's a good place to start, though, because it's like I feel like it's also a place that. would be tempting for a lot of people to start if they don't know a lot about how the linguistic features work for for try continental routes so before getting into my opening tirade, let us first.

discuss our qualifications for this, since I think that they are remarkably similar. Both of us and you wouldn't know this from Jesse, but it is true both of us have studied the Arabic language, have we not yes in a formal classroom setting. In a college setting mm hmm both of us have yes, how many semesters did you do mine Okay, so I have an extra semester is you, but really like the first semester of Arabic is like the biggest you know.

You know yeah expands on that yes and no and and here's the the no part of it um it depends on your teacher Okay, and if you're a Grad student and if your teacher can speak the language of instruction. And so I had a very lovely Arabic teacher who very, very lovely person and wouldn't want to say a bad word about the teacher, but I was in Germany, while I was in Germany, and he didn't speak a lick of German okay or English Okay, the only spoke French okay and multiple dialects of Arabic.

And so I don't speak French, I know I don't get, and so what would happen is there would be a lot of repetition that was like just based on the Arabic and then we had a textbook where we'd figure out what we were saying. In German in Arabic and and then, when he needed to explain points because it's like Okay, he spoke more than a look at German, but like you know he find his way around town or order something from a restaurant, but like not like.

Do you hold conversations or teach the whole class in German, and so what would happen on like the longer descriptions was he would speak in French and a student in the class, who spoke with French and German would translate into German. And i'm pretty sure I missed a lot of information, because this was a student who was not say a language student or linguistics student just someone interested in learning Arabic and so when you don't know the terms.

things get lost is well wherever whenever I took a language class, it was done, entirely in the language. yeah that doesn't work so well for me. But that's how they do it no not In most places. Not in Missouri. Well, obviously not an either. Or at least when when I was there, the languages that all the language courses that i've had when they were final finer grammatical points they go into the language of instruction and like describe what what's happening and.

and find examples, so that way you can better understand like that's how all my language classes have been even the ones that were like. 90% was in like Spanish or whatever it would be like you know certain days they'd be like what we need to talk about this, to make sure you're understanding the pattern.

See in mind, the only time that they would use English was when explaining the syllabus explaining when like you know the final exam was or if, like classes, going to be cancelled or something something like that. that's the only time they would use English, otherwise you know. that's that's how I learned about. via a fail me. At a devil of a time figuring out what the heck he was saying, also.

He kept when he was talking, this is a this is David peterson, by the way my French instructor David peterson because that happened in my life when he was talking about. nasal bow he says, like like you'd say. Like gymnastic did mizzou in this acl and he would like point to his nose and for the longest time I thought, like Mrs sale made words like some.

adjective pertaining to the nose and I was like oh no it's just necessary oh nice okay so we've talked a whole lot we've talked about some language instruction and and why my Arabic did not stick except, I think the pronoun for. I feminine is. enter is would be the yes second person singular feminine yeah empty wait wait wait no i'm sorry and those would be masculine nt would be feminine.

And then the word for and was something like whoa yeah because I remember, turning to my classmates and being like wouldn T. Because we had to ask questions like and you, and then you had to say where you're from or whatever, and so I remember that but also your phone but. um, but I also remember that, because it's like sounded very similar to I in Chinese in Mandarin WHA, and so I always I in Chinese was whoa whoa it's yeah yeah but it's like wow wow. wow you know I changed all my bowels.

Of the vowels pretty important got like a hand I mean there's so much there's so little going on from a logically in Chinese yeah good sense battles. it's an it's spelled with a no go within Okay, but like it's pronounced with the sra yeah right well. well. I was just saying to me and that's why I remember it Okay, and I think I needed to say because, at one point, we had to do our nationalities and I feel like American came out as like.

Rica tune or something quite so you would be it'd be empty empty gear yeah there we go yeah and an American there we go see I remembered like. bits and pieces like that I can I can butcher how to say i'm an American in Arabic and that's what I can do in Arabic and then I can turn to you and say when T okay.

Now you know a little bit more, how do you say where you're from I don't remember I just said, the word I. OK, so now we get down to the like i'm in California I don't I don't hear things and remember them we know this about me we've talked about this, how did you go to a college. I took a lot of notes and then I studied from all the handwritten notes and I just wrote down stuff like to draw.

Hand anyway, yes, no like you would have to like do it eight times over really slowly and like stress it for me to finally be like Oh, I can repeat, and I know what i'm saying and then Anna men men wherever you're from. The third there you go and then I mean Missouri yeah there we go. Okay, no well let's talk about okay about you know the whole fact that Arabic was spread out because it's a try continental room language yeah and let's talk about why.

All right, you shouldn't go down to make debbie path okay so don't go down a good path first let's go over the basics of it so, for example, of the the easiest and most.

Common insanity ation of this try continental root system, or at least the best exemplar is the KGB route in Arabic and Hebrew it would be katie V. So cut off type of thing because Hebrew and Arabic are the same in this regard, so the thing is the the route, the idea of this being a try continental route is that these three continents will.

share the same linearity and a bunch of different words that are related to itself, so, in other words you'll see katie and be in the same order and all of these different words got that by. With a nice short vowel after it means right there it's it's like what you list as the. citation form if I write it he means wri te yes wr it and, in fact, a cut of it means he wrote in the past tense you added to the end got the button means she wrote in the past tense you wanted to say, I wrote a dub.

dub do I wrote in the past tense, if you want to say I am writing in the present octo octo. And so suddenly you still have katie and be an order, but you notice the Val disappeared, so now the cane to right next to each other, back to he writes he actually he is like October I right Yes, he writes. The doctor she writes to being a you right if you're a woman right, so we still have katie me an order, but now that can that to your next to each other.

And then the vows can also change in and out so we've mostly seen just a short off okay tip is writer, with a long and they're. marketed would be office marketer by would be library. Get tab his book and now we have a short I in there, get the job. Good job is books too short ooze in there. And then let's see I don't know what else got taboo they wrote. What are what are some other words like I I definitely.

Get the concept about how like the inflections and durations are all built to the point where you can like have this one route and build a lot of words which, for one thing, as a con linger. That feels like a very good path to go down because it's like you just need to pick you know these three consonants to represent this this concept and you need to figure out the patterns.

And you get to plug and play and that's exciting to suddenly have like all these extra words that you didn't have before similar to noun classes, it is similar to now classes evolutionary wise I understand we're now in classes come from yeah evolutionary wise. This seems so foreign for me to wrap my head around about like well, what was the more ancient where what like what how how because you obviously didn't just have at some point, like speakers being like wow.

This is, you know this this concept, without any you know just the KGB by yourself and like how it ended up getting separated like that and and how is a counseling or you can approach that. yeah like that to me is is really outside of just being like okay i'm going to just create the system and have it created, but like when you want to root it in like where did all of these patterns come from.

Here yeah So the first thing is that once con lingers learn about this, they tend to get very excited by it and want to jump into it and create it. And that was what I did this is apparently become a thing now. But I was the first one to do it, and I want to make that damn clear there are so many people say oh yeah they're doing the whole track house and everything nobody did it before me, I was the very first damn it.

I know that what's his face wrote about it in theory that was, I think the only previous instance was rick more no wrote about it, in theory, as a part of his. con Lang essays who's like here is, in theory, how you might do in Arabic style morphology language if you're creating an auxiliary language. I did it, I was the first person ever to do it for a non auxiliary language I won't hear anything else to the contrary, unless there's documented proof.

It wasn't a thing, before I did it I didn't even know what a con Lang was before I did it I just did it, I was just like. I just learned Arabic, I thought it was really cool I just learned that Esperanto was a thing, and I thought well wouldn't it be fun if I created my own language, and then I could do this so. That was, I wanted to make clear first sure, so all these people being like oh yeah you did the usual thing I did, the only thing I was the first one. In grades.

I don't get nearly the respect I should. call my community, this is true. We have very different approaches to at least amount of respect, at least at least to you respect me. huh. Okay yeah all right all right so anyway. Yes, moving forward, so what I did with Meg Davies, I think the first thing that occurs to you if you look at Arabic and understand the system.

Because the idea is you get the endpoint right if you start to study the Arabic language right right now you're seeing the endpoint of thousands of years of evolution. you're seeing the bio of the the the product of you know, sound change and re analysis and re analysis. And people kind of figuring out their own systems for it and figuring out the best way to teach it. Because, of course, their end goal is for you to learn it right it's it's not to figure out how it was built.

it's it's for you to figure out how to use it, so that you can actually speak the language right and that's a very different thing. And so, consequently, if you try to reverse that process, you end up with something like make Davey where you say alright, so now we're starting a brand new language.

And so let's just choose concepts that are mostly broad that was also another failure and maybe but not something we'll focus on for this, because it's not relevant, but concepts that are mostly broad and then three continents that are different and then let's just start making roots. And in you can just kind of go from there, you can go with like okay water, the land, a big like cooking whatever.

And then you start coming up with patterns and say Okay, if we have a consonant number one so continent one, two and three right so we'll have one developer, he to develop me and then three. And that's going to be a place where the concept happens right So if you had monique for AIG than me neck would be a hatchery. If you had like cabal for cook then key bell would be a kitchen or place where where things are cooked and so on. And you just go down the line, and you do all of us.

As many as you want say okay this pattern is going to be associated with an agent this pattern is going to be associated with a person who is most likely a patient, this is a place where the thing happens, this is basic noun this is. This is a we call it a participle here all of the verb conjugations and you just do the whole thing out and you end up with may Davey and the result is it's kind of like the esperanza five version of what a try continental languages.

And then, if you go on with this idea, you can start branching off to things that are not only. unnatural but almost impossible. So, for example, like I started coming up with ideas and make Davey for compounds. That would actually like switch the consonants from like one route and mix them up with another route and like move them around and then put put a bunch of vowels in their. ass yeah and then like just all all these different types of things you know ones where you could actually.

move the consonants out of their order Oh, but it's like you knew, you would have to know like with the leading Val that like Oh, this is one where you flipped consonant three and consonant one like. yeah see this is just something that that can't that doesn't happen in natural languages. and probably couldn't because it'd be very difficult to figure out because we don't actually. Think of it at that level right like, even though we can schema ties it that way.

it's not like in your brain you're just thinking Okay, I have this pattern i'm just mapping consonants one, two and three in there and I always have them tagged with a variable and I always know what they are, and I can mix them up. Like we don't do that we don't do that, and so, if you're making the language that way doesn't make sense, and you can really learn it and use it.

Now it doesn't make sense sorry i've been feeling like you've been wanting to interject I wanted to give you a spot, oh no, no, that was. That was just yeah really awful yeah no yeah and so that's That was the result of respect that you deserve yeah I respect your bad decision, thank you.

Alright, so when it comes to building one of these things the right way, there was a number of things to know, and I think, also a number of interesting observations that can be made, you know I. I did a similar thing. With. The we call it. The. it's another popular one to garlic oh yeah the Philippine type the australasian alignment also called the the trigger system. There are many interesting observations that you can make if you just look at the system and just say all right.

let's let's see what we can find about these so number one if you're looking at just Arabic, for example, you'll you'll notice that there are a lot of try continental routes, there are some by continental routes. And then there's like a handful of Tetra continental routes, but all of them have explanation so that's, the first thing they all have explanations there.

there's a reason that three seems to be the upper limit, because in theory, if you have a try constant organ system wine at a Tetra continental a quick quick continental a sexual content, a little and so on. There appears to be an upper limit on that type of thing, and these for him and processing if you're not interested in doing a natural language you could do things like this, but.

or a trifle colic route yeah That was the other thing that was if you look at pete please, please, please, please ileana. that one is really interesting where it's like you don't you can't actually have any words until you combined the try continental route, with a tribal calif route and then you get something it's not intended to be a natural language it's a very interesting experiment. He also did a talk on it lcc six if anybody ever finally put those videos together.

Whenever someone in England, it was one of the ones in England, the first one in England yeah. Okay, so. Some of the observations you can make about Arabic are. You will often see roots, where the second two continents are the same, you will never see any way through the first two consonants are the same unless they're like on a mana pick interesting yeah another thing is that.

There are restrictions on the types of consonants you see coming next to one another and it's really hard a yet to just put that broadly right. Because it's really hard to quantify but it's also interesting there's there are restrictions specially on the first two consonants as opposed to the second two. Which is interesting because the second two will actually come into contact, a lot more than the first two, but you know.

that's actually also something else you know, the second two continents will come into contact, a lot more than the first two will their roots, where they will but, more often than not. It is the second to will come into contact right or if I got that wrong or is it backwards, I feel like backwards, because didn't you say, like a tub yeah yeah right for it yeah i'm Sorry, I think it was the first two that come into contact yeah number might.

have been watching it and beautiful it likes to language and coloring but it's a little songbird. Little hops very cute but okay yeah So the first two continents are more likely yes to touch, then the final two yeah it's also interesting to look at the irregular the very irregular ones. Because the irregular ones will always have as one of their consonants. A semi belt.

So, or a glottal stop it will be one of those and so like they're the ones where you learn where it's like read means I want, and then in the past tense it's the other. He wanted and it's like well what's this crazy Val change and it's like well, it has to do with the semi Veil.

Being there, which gives you some indication of what happened in the past, so there are lots of things like this, so then keeping that in mind all right, and knowing that it's not just you pick three continents, out of a hat so then it's like okay well what what actually happened. The theory is this that originally there were just words, and these words just had two consonants so what you had was like.

The vc or CBC mostly CBC where the first one was was a you know glottal stop or something like that, and then you had a series of steps of modifier that eventually got boil down to a single continent. In addition, you had a whole ton of sound changes, a whole mess of them like like you know there were some easy ones where they didn't affect anything like pro P and Arabic became F and it just did that everywhere and it didn't really affect anything and then it was just like Okay, whatever.

But then there were a lot of other sound changes that affected the semi vowels that affected the glottal stop and that affected. frickin lives and the. The the the liquids, and these in turn affected the vowels around them, so, for example, let's say that you have. let's say that let's start out with a toy route. something different. About.

suck s Ak suck all right start out with suck it means something all right, something basic how about rock suck means rock yeah suck means rock that's good okay. and seeing if there is a way that we could like Oh, I mean like I could just pull up a document yeah. But I thought that might be kind of fun to like map out what we're doing. Is we just do a page document or pull up a note. And we'll both have it will be easy because we don't share pages documents. Can I separate.

Like when I make this note, so that way it because I want to be able to share the screen. And not have What do you mean I don't want everyone to see all my notes. Oh, you want to share the screen yes Oh, my goodness, I wanted to be able to show them so that way as you're talking to the pages document that oh i'm so sorry like I totally didn't understand. Goodness gracious okay and we're going to make this like size 48 pounds yeah alright suck okay just one second share the screen.

Okay, so it means rock we're going to start off with rock all right, and then let's say that. You have another like. Some word or idea that means like small let's say, and you have. noun modifier order which you do in Arabic with the way, because this is a head initial language so let's say it was something associated with an n right so let's say that you have this like second.

yeah means pebble or like small rock pebble whatever right okay now let's say that you have a. A plural ization strategy Okay, and this plural ization strategy let's say it's derived from some something means like. pile. How do you say blank of blank in Arabic. Rational rational exam yeah so it's after it. And so let's say that. This pile word was like I don't know. started with an H right it's going to be after like. start with rock.

star with rock and then let's say that you have some sort of a genitive or something in there, so like put a you in between the two of them, oh Thank you yep soccer and then. And then let's say that there was some other value associated with this, and so there's just a another valid narrative matter what it is just throw any balance in there sure. yeah all right, and then now let's do like. A devil's space. And let's say that at some point in time. You can lose unstressed short vowels okay.

And that stress goes to. A long Val and that word final consonants or extra metrical alright suck sacking. And so, and then suck WHA become suck second. yep and then the next one. becomes. wow. Right Okay, because you can actually do this there's nothing wrong with that we kind of have that in English right to make this smaller than 48 yeah it's like make it so everyone can see right. Well done. So, like we a button in English there's nothing wrong with that.

I just want to make sure I understood what you were saying yeah and so then next thing that might happen is that we don't like. Beginning or in in a word, with two continents right, and so we need to just throw in some sort of apathetic bow. And so, then we get. We get you know sack net. sadness and so.

Okay, now, one thing that we haven't done so far, we haven't done the plural of pebble our way so let's go back and take a look at pebble now here's the big thing, and this was relevant for Arabic, what if what if this derivation this small derivation happened after the plural. All right, rather than happening before the plural okay. because of course it, the idea is that it came from an actual adjective anyway.

And so it's not like you're going to paralyze the adjective right it's you're talking about rocks small rocks Okay, and if you don't have plural agreement at this point. Then that small is going to be coming after the word for rocks and so, then it doesn't going to get glommed on so, then you have suck. Like wacky right. And the same thing we're going to be squatting.

No, no, just squat Oh yes, because all unstressed yeah and then now suddenly the plural is something like let's just say it just doesn't like you know ah n next to it and so what's happening is it's just going to drop the age, and so you have a swan. With along. There you go, you have success right so sock is the plural is the singular rock the plural is a square.

Then you have second, which is the singular for pebble and ask one is the plural suddenly you're getting something that's kind of like you know in winking distance of Arabic now let's go back up to the top we're going to make this 24. see if we can get it on one all right now let's go back up to the top and let's look at some other things that you might do s is a pretty neutral consonant.

However, and is not necessarily a neutral consonant and is not necessarily a neutral Val so one method you might go here is say the KPI becomes chuck I so you have soccer in setting. Right. And so suddenly you know if you just follow that all the way down, you have suck for rock and such now. or section right there. Such now. right but take a look at what. changed yeah take a look at what happens here so squash gene let's say that the hai becomes a show question. alright.

So that way with that actually up here, yes okay all right, and now, maybe you don't get rid of that and turn into the long vowel maybe you have you know, a squash now. yeah it's I should keep what we originally. yeah So these are just options other things that you can do of course interval calif voicing that kind of obscures the you know the which we call it the. The try the try continental nature of it but that's part of the point. And let's see are there any places where you might.

Oh yeah and then, of course, like you can already see something that this happened here right if you have such now, but then I squash right. there's this politicization thing going on, where it's like suddenly, you have the exact same thing, like you had with Arabic like you know yeah and why and i'm. Where it's like you have to know it's like all right, if your initial i'm sorry if your medial consonant and Arabic is like a glottal stop it might.

show up and crazy different forms and different tenses and here you have the exact same thing now you have this K that's joined up as a child. In the singular and you have to know that in the plural it's not going to end up being that so just to like kind of interrupt you, for a minute, please do. Okay, so going back to this example where we have soft eventually becoming suck now hmm speakers at that stage could re analyze that actually the SK in is what makes it rock and that the.

In those positions is what makes it diminutive and so it's like pebble that's true so they could at that point really analyze and apply it, especially if there were a lot of roots that like that had like. You know, S. Whatever because this is going to happen anytime there's the in because it's going to be lost because right. So they could actually realize and then this shows from my understanding, this is showing why sometimes those try continental roots aren't so regular.

Because historically they had some other things going on, where the I was totally lost, but you don't know that until you go all the way back to a full proto form where it's not. Necessary it's not actually try continental it just happens yeah to have consonants and, in fact, here we have 1234 continents yep okay all right, and then a couple of other notes so like Hebrew has regular metastases.

In predictable places so that's something that makes it even a little muddier so, for example, we have this word, you know second and they might have decided, well, we don't like. You know, a stop, followed by a nasal act that's we're going to change it to sancha yeah and so things like that can happen. But I wanted to start with this example of a diminutive because I think it's very easy to understand. If you go into the history of Arabic if you go back to Africa sciatic a lot of these posited.

route modifications, because there were like 20 of them. are very broad and general so like you, you have things that are described as like extended one extended to. And it's like if you start to look at all of the roots of Arabic that have that as a third consonant. It becomes very difficult to pin down a specific meaning for that, because it just got so broad because what happened is maybe it started off with a specific meaning kind of like this here.

But then let's say maybe somebody thought like well you know diminutive of this is that and people accepted it, but then there was another analysis. That said, that said okay like you know these four obviously diminutive and like these three are obviously diminutive and then there's this special one.

But I see this other pattern that has this special one is the core Member and then maybe like one from here and to from here, and I have this other idea and i'm going to make other words based on that that makes sense to me. And if speakers accepted them suddenly they're a part of the group and pretty soon these things, these like third consonants start to become so semantically bleached.

That you can't even really identify a single meaning any with any of them they're just kind of like a core concepts that it just becomes a part of the language now. And because there were so many of them, it was just the way you did things it wasn't just like here's this one pattern, we have with this one suffix there was like 20 some of them, and so it was just like a thing you know. yeah.

Come on, no. I should, too, yes, a question go ahead, one is, of course, like anytime you say try continental route i'm thinking like you've mentioned Arabic. Hebrew i'm thinking Semitic languages, specifically, but yeah there's another are their families, beyond that, that people can look to for inspiration in terms of seeing how other language families. have developed yes there's one in the Northwest.

America and I don't remember the name of it, it would have been great for me to look this up, because of course we've been thinking about this podcast topic for a long time now we've been great to look it up, but yeah there is one, and you actually see the exact same type of thing. recall seeing a verbal paradigm, with it, this is that a. This is that exists bls in 2003 where I saw the the slides for this.

But it's really cool and actually that is going to remind me that reminds me of something else to add to this, which is the. Is a better word for this essentially rhythm. But there are there are things that can happen in languages, because you are trying to match a syllable count. or you're trying to match a rhythm where you're trying to match a stress pattern and you'll actually see that in Arabic.

there's an entire verb set where the The point is, you Gemini at the middle consonant because essentially you're looking for the pattern thumb thumb. done done right so that's another type of thing that could happen, where because you're trying to hit a rhythm that is motivation. For cutting certain vowels which again we're going to put these things together, but then it's like if the valves don't play well together, then you have to do other things to fix it.

Sorry, if the consonants don't play well together, you have to do things to fix it like throwing and vows of the end, but the point was like you know if you think that all like your nouns should be bumped. Right, but you have a fixed stress pattern, then you have to do something to get it into that pattern. Turkish also has a suffix like this, where the suffix is either a single consonant or an entire syllable depending on how many whether there's an otter even number of syllables in the word.

And we kind of have something like this, an English to with a certain inflection pattern that we have when we are incredulous or mocking something. Which is the i'm that one and we either lengthen of vow. If lengthen about and like move the tone over if there isn't enough room so it's like you know, depending on where the stresses so Jesse it's like you mean Jesse but let's say that the stress shifted over one.

alone i'm suddenly there's an entire like you know the the Val has to be liked and and the entire like up down thing has to be moved over because. Whereas it didn't for Jesse Jesse is just high low for alone it's low high low with the high low going over to the alone part and then, if there's more consonants you can do it, you know tallahassee. But you see like the same thing I continental yeah try continental and notice, where the the lows and highs were for that mechanical right.

So it's that same type of thing, and you can see that with try continental root systems when it comes to like chopping off valves in order to fit it kind of phonetic or phonological or international pattern. And, in fact, the thing that reminded me of that was this other language from the northwest of America let's see if Google. It has the same thing, where you see geminids happening in order to kind of fit an international hatter. let's see.

see if you could just pull up this Semitic group Wikipedia and see if it has an example. Okay, so do you want to keep talking, though, while i'm looking this up. Probably not so interesting man do they not have it here I don't see it unbelievable. Try this one core maybe somebody Northwest Washington. In Washington and Oregon It could be that one let. me. Okay, your turn an extinct family in southern California have bilateral roots and melodic morphology.

But that's not the one i've seen one yellow money your money has try continental roots. I didn't think it was your money yoku it's. Like I could have sworn it with something else. And I don't think i'd have to sign in for this one of the authors are. So freaking paper. that's, all I can get. In a store has been acting real weird you got to use your J store stuff while you can it hasn't even been working with the library.

i've been struggling with them well, the thing that I remember that was most memorable for me was this route, it was a verbal system and it was like the route was T Angola, something else, and was seeing this Angola Gemini and certain parts of the paradigm. Which made me think of it, but I could have sworn that y'all money Oh, Chris was not one, because otherwise I would remember that we we looked at it so much because they were studying that there anyway.

Well okay so yeah as i'm trying to like wrap my head around this because one It just seems like wow This is very complicated to get such a language. And I will say I will double down on what I just read on that core response, where it's like I can happen, you know. yeah sure they they can happen outside of Semitic languages, I salute them but they're also very rare, and so I think that's something to is that you know.

I think one reason why con listeners are drawn to such a system beyond just the the fact that ooh if I have my template I could like you know, do the plug method. But I think it's also exciting anytime you encounter linguistic feature that's rare because that makes it fun to play with right. So I think there are two different ways that if you're a con linger and you want to create one of these languages.

There are more than two but i'm just going to kind of really broadly lump them into two ways that you could approach, making such a language, and you can agree or disagree at well i'm agree. But I think one way is to just approach and say i'm i'm not even. For the the start i'm not even going to try to make it based in any sort of you know proto former evolutionary form, I just want to see what it's like. To create a system that on the surface, has a template where you plug in.

These consonants and it again, I mean nothing wrong with that it's your language, you can have fun with it, you can see, like especially I think this would be a fun exercise for anybody wanting to really. force their brains into thinking about semantic connections in bigger ways in terms of like how broadly can you define these concepts were like this template equals X and like.

You know how much fun, can you have with with routes that are concrete nouns versus abstract nouns versus you know verbal kind of roots versus. Like I think you could end up having a lot of fun just semantically playing with the language to see like how you could get this vocabulary and apply it can I add to that without you forgetting your next thing yeah okay.

I think it would actually be an ideal way to create an international auxiliary language, for this reason, when you look at something like Esperanto or language that's built in that style. there's really not a lot built in for a user to be able to figure out what a new word means. You kind of just stuck with like well if I don't know that route, then whatever like I can tell that there are some suffixes on here I recognize but that's really.

The bulk of it, and not only that there are a lot of suffixes okay if, on the other hand, you're building an Ai an international ancillary language from the top down, and not going to borrow in a bunch of vocabulary and you want to do it from the start it's. you're essentially giving giving users, a shot to expand the vocabulary on their own, and also for here's to be able to figure it out.

Because it's like okay I don't I don't know i've never heard the word me can before However, I do know the word mcdonough and I do know the verb you know you know. move Cone and based on that and knowing the pattern, I can guess what this person is trying to say. And it's it's a I think it would be a lot easier for people if they if there was a small set of these a smaller set of these all right really focused set.

To be able to learn them get used to them and create their own words and figure out what other words, people are saying I think it'd be a lot easier than Esperanto type model. So that's I think one way to approach it. Because the other major ways of course saying i'm going to do a do it from the beginning and you're going to develop and evolve, the system over time, but I think.

what's going to be difficult, is like you're going to need to have a thorough grasp on the phonological patterns you're going to want a thorough grasp on what phonological changes can end up influencing others down the road and I don't think you can actually set out. Like you can like to me like my brain is not wrapping around like well how at what point do I actually have a try continental root system in this language.

At what point, can I start to abstract the templates out without like me having contrived them at what point you know, like as a con linger trying to approach all these decisions. I think it's much more complex and dirty it's like the process is messy, and so I think giving just like standard advice for like this is how you do it is super difficult. doable but like you're just going to have to put I think a lot more.

Time in building up the foundation for what changes are going to happen across the board in your language. Whereas like a lot of times when you start a language, you can have a handful of you know, sound changes at the set. At the outset, and then be like, as you create more inflections and derivations be like i'm going to add this in because this is a new thing that i've come across and I need to go back and add it in I feel like in a system like this if you go back to added in later.

Chaos couldn't Sue. You know it's not like a late addition of the oh 31st sound change we're going to have in this language, just because we suddenly have one route where these two things come together. I feel like in this, it has to be like you've got to be really committed to the sound patterns and the international patterns, the stress patterns that you're really looking for in the language. and have strategies ready to go for that even before you start generating a lot of fruits.

Something that might help if you're going this route and I think a good way to think of this is that. You should separate your language, you know as you're going from our language to modern into different areas and give those speakers different mindsets so it's like. You know the first arrows like all right, whatever we're we're sitting at the building blocks right there really basic stuff and then the next thing is, you say like these speakers.

These speakers hate bows and so, if it's not stressed and it's not long they want to get rid of it and they will throw a bunch of consonants together. If that means they don't have to say any of these little bows they're done with them next era say these speakers hate consonant clusters. They never ever want more than two consonants in a row in a syllable and so, then you do stuff because of that, like you can imagine a type of Spanish that might work this way.

So, like and Spanish there's a verb like you know say not which means to to like cook and you know Santa bi cook saying is means the Ikea. You cook and so on. and imagine, though, like you know and cena means dinner right right and so imagine, though, you have like Santa which is dinner. Say not is the verb means to to to cook right but let's say that, like in this version of the language they didn't like.

Having to pronounce a valve between two continents when it wasn't stress, and this was before the seat of a change because it starts with a seat, and so, at one point in time, you had you know kenna right he. Did dinner right and the not which means to cook, then you have the sound change happen, can I make him Center.

Then you have the other Spanish sound change which is like we don't want to consonants to be any of the words with her and he and so suddenly have sin is dinner and acknowledge is the verb that means to cook. There you go like do stuff like that, but like try to keep it Nice and ordered and like write it down and, by the way, when I say these things, I never do them.

I mean, I know it's telling you should do don't follow the way I do it like that, like this is the way you do it best, even though i've never done it. But it's like just say, like all right here's arrow one here are the words from arrow one here's era to here's the mindset of the speakers of era to hear the words from area to.

area three and so on and so forth, and just go right on down the line, like that and build something up methodical methodically systematically and then the end result should be beautiful. Nice. So keep track of your work Okay, so all that is to say, like. At some point we need to just like try to show how you could do this oh like. we're not right now the hard part yeah. So maybe maybe there will be a part two coming of this this exploration coming out.

Well let's see what next season is before we say that yeah alright, so we do need to sign off though yep, it is the end, we hope that it is enlightened you somewhere or giving you ideas, or at least helped you understand some of the the fun features of these kinds of languages. We hope yeah and, if nothing else, we hope you had fun. Alright, so everyone, let me stop sharing so that way I can find my menu again. hope you have a great month happy April and stay grammar bye everybody.