LangTime Chat, Episode 24: Language Sketch Evolution, Part I

Every single day is crisis mode so like it feels like that would track yeah I mean it does feel like eight of those hours would probably be crisis and the rest of them would there be a lot of downtime but you know. Fair, by the way, I never saw it, I haven't either really I just I know the concept, I would have I mean I know the concept as well, but I just would have guessed if there was one thing that you would have seen with your life experience it was that fix. Like I don't even know.

Why, you could be thinking of are referring to, to think that you would have listed it on your resume but i've watched 24 you know I not only those things on resumes but like I had not AJ get the popcorn that's you right now. Plus i'm pretty sure that by the time it came out I wasn't living at home anymore, so I wouldn't be telling my sister to get the popcorn yeah I assume, she would you know fly in every every week in order to watch it with you it's 24 day. you're an interesting person.

Okay, so also interesting is and I didn't realize. How loud, it would feel to my ears because we're sitting right in front of the guitars and like I can hear the reverberations from my voice in the instruments. And that's a very interesting phenomenon. Okay well david's doing something weird but can you hear that little bit yeah a little bit, and so, if you hear like some sooner Hans find us.

it's the instruments, providing a sort of deep send for us, we can put some stuffed animals in the holes of the acoustic guitars that can poke their little heads down to actually be really cute. But then they would probably get stuck and then, if you ever wanted to play we'd have to figure out how to get to be a thing scissors okay. and be your stuffed animals were cutting up, not mine. How would you.

Alright, so today why yes him in charge of the topic excellent David is running away I just forgot one thing. I am super curious about what he forgot but um I was inspired by something that the patrons had been discussing that would be a cool idea, and so I thought, why not make that make that idea, a reality. And so we're going to try this out.

Oh, I see what David yeah are you gonna show it on screen Before I continue, with what the unveiling is or oh yeah you're at it, this is what we're talking about this week now remember chef yes cupcakes there we go. I remember you got to say what it is. Okay, these are my birthday cakes or whatever one of your birthday cake Okay, when you have multiple birthday celebrations you get multiple desserts so keep that in mind.

um so people have been saying, like it would be fun to have like some promo forms that then David and I each individually worked on and came back together to figure out what we would do differently. And so I thought, like that's a really cool idea, and so this is going to be at least a two part podcast one today we're going to decide on a proto form and talk about decisions that we're making for those proto forums.

And we're going to have like a document that we will then each get and we can even share that as a resource on patreon so that anybody at home, who wants to play along has a month to figure out what they would do to this proto form. And then we're going to come back together. Next month podcast and compare compare what we did see see how different the languages look after David gets to do what he wants and after I get to do what I want on my forums and then we're going to compare okay.

that's you're talking about like a little pro system yeah, as you said, proto form, so I was assuming this is one word and I was like it's gonna be a very short podcast. No pro system we're going to come up with some forms okay we're done you want to show now they see the the cupcake has a surprise inside, and this is why David was excited about them.

So there's actually their chocolate cupcakes and then inside the chocolate cupcake is there's actually a chocolate chip cookie baked into its Center and so. So it's kind of exciting when you buy it in and find out that there's also a cookie. Alright um so i'm gonna go ahead and share my screen of course at home we're going to for all the people who are listening, right now, and you know.

haven't seen the video yet we're going to talk through everything we're doing in the document, but for anybody who is watching on YouTube when this comes out, you can see, oh so i've actually made some calling it linkedin chat provo. Then it's going to be our sketch, we should totally change the order of our names i'll take care of that before I share the document, because this is me gotta switch it up every single time.

And so, this is the regular sketch document that we work from it's just going to be a sketch it's not going to be like in no way, shape or form, are we going to be creating a whole language, but what we're going to do today is definitely subtle on. The sounds of the proto forms or sorry the proto sketch, I should say so we'll get sounds and then we're going to come up with.

I don't know like I said, maybe like 10 routes or something and talk about you know, like what routes we're going to pick and what what they're going to look like in the production system. And we're also going to decide, because really, what I want to do is for us to be able to come back and not only have these like. roots transformed, but then also like make some basic decisions like Oh, the proto language.

Is you know seo or sov or whatever, so that way we can like kind of play around and put like one sentence together and like a very simple basic sentence nothing. Like the man kick the rock or something you know, like something super super basic well so we're gonna have to deal with the verbs, then yes.

All right, all right, but if you can decide that you know you can decide how you want to do with them and we're not going to do, multiple sentences no embedded clauses no nothing it's just gonna be like, how does this work for this one for before No, I do. I do COM login for my job I don't have to do it for my leisure time. it's just directory directory, you are so full of it, you know what I enjoy you know what I enjoy if i'm just relaxing.

I like filling out forms why can't we just do a podcast about filling out forms that sounds like fun, I mean that is what you were doing for the last 45 minutes or a short survey, but it was, for your benefit patrons. You, why do you keep running away, while we're supposed to be recording a podcast. Alright, so.

i've got yeah the phonology the phonology section pulled up on the screen okay those listening at home okay you're looking at again the chart that you're used to seeing but we're gonna we're going to change it we're going to change it. Because it's not it's not phonology it's been all ology you an. Oh, my gosh um no one goes out to all our partners.

And so, one thing that i'm sure that you all have noticed, you know as you seen our episodes is that when we start the consonant chart is never a like full IPA consonant chart. And so that's, just like the first thing I wanted to point out, and so, David like you know condensed the IPA chart to be much smaller than the the full one.

Deleting out, for instance there's no pharyngeal column yeah there's no, you know so it's like there's certain columns missing and several rows as well, like trills and whatnot. Why did you do, that I never separate those out, are you kidding me trills versus taps versus glides it's just silly. versus laterals lawless you don't need that they're just they're just approximates I mean you just want to you just want something simple.

Otherwise you're going to be stuck with a million different rows it's basically you could end up with something where every single segment has its own box. Which is like, if you do that, why. The list let's talk about the columns the placement of articulation that were deleted, and these are just the usual suspects so it's like you can because you can always delete and add more sure. it's like usually one of dental or alveoli is probably going to get deleted.

Usually usually gets deleted and it's like if I really want to add for angel which I have and in. What I do for angel probably the warcraft or fish. And then definitely in dominion with the. Whatever language that wasn't a dumb name starts with an l I don't remember the language name for that we ship us terrible. And so, so you start with the usual suspects in terms of what you tend to find.

In languages in general, like the sounds that just are more common and placement of articulation that that's more common yeah. But it doesn't mean like you can't add to it and same thing with the vowels hyman low is easy, but sometimes the distinction between you know. Open made and close mid is important, sometimes it isn't and so, but, as you can just add a row, so no big deal you delete the central column, which you probably want to do if it does all the time.

And the and like another thing is, for instance, under the power little column the frickin lives that are listed or. weekly post i'll bueller because the action the edge, but a language is highly unlikely to have both the ash and then the the political frickin of that's represented with the seat, with the little yeah. What does that little hanging down anything so do you Cindy Thank you.

You know it's unlikely that it would have Bush and like they're like barely different you know who does have it is Hungarian oh so if you're you know doing something Hungarians there's borrowings in that yeah that would affect that. But anyway, there are just some some things here, I know, having worked with a lot of you know, students and beginning con lingers I know one area that is difficult, is that a lot of students, want to put in way too many consonant sounds.

Sometimes, too many vowel sounds too, but it's like they get so intrigued by these sounds as they're exploring you know sounds of languages around the world, and then they're like. Oh, my gosh I love all of these sounds and i'm going to put in this whole like system to the point where the the consonant inventory gets. really large yeah I mean yeah you brought it up, I did so that means I get to weigh in on this yeah.

So am I going to allow you to speak and our shared podcast are you, I guess, so it looks like our special guest is here. What do you think it's probably not a pack i'm guessing it's a package, but I also want to check do you want to weigh in while I checked to make sure that is just the package alright so. I cannot tell you how many con legs, I see we're all I do is I just look at their honestly, not even their phonology their phonetic inventory and I can say well.

This is, this is a pass basically i'm swiping left on this that's the correct direction right you swipe left on something that you don't want. I remember it from a anti smoking ad and I believe that swiping left is means you don't want that but yeah I swipe left and a lot of cotton legs when I just look at their affinity inventory. Because. it's always troubling when there are more consonants than there are in the IPA chart which.

Which is something that you do see because it's like well let's start with the labels, and so we have P amp B, but then we also have aspirated P amp B and then we also have Lavie allies P amp B and then we also have aspirated Labor realized b&b. And then also pallets allies, plus as for as for eight and it's just it's like just in the labels you're getting like you know eight to 12 different stops.

Oral stops, and these are supposed to be separate phone names and we haven't even gotten to the lingual labels which are obviously there as well, and then the dental than the Pickles in the audio and it's just it's just I want to, I want to look at the phone things that weren't included. and want to know what they did to not be invited to this party that everybody was invited to, and I will say like along with that, I think.

One thing that people see are the close transcriptions you know, with all the the diet critics and everything. and forget that you know yeah if you do a close transcription of English you're going to end up using a lot of those times or yes. But they aren't their own phone names and they don't you know, like be, for instance aspirated P is not distinguish from announced greater P it isn't some languages i'm not saying it can't be.

But, like you, can you can build in a lot of those sounds that you want by having different. funnel logical processes and just be like well, they would pronounce it this way on the surface, but like that doesn't mean they mean to have their own entries.

And the chart so I have turned off notifications and i'm still getting notifications, and like I don't understand what's happening, this is a winner right now podcaster doorbells email notifications i'm so sorry everyone yeah um but all that is to say. I as a beginning guideline just for students, I I encourage them to aim for some like average numbers. And, in general I think the average consonant inventory for languages is like 22 to 26 continents, all together, like all together.

I want to say that's the effort, I think it was 18 to 2218 to 22 is that so somewhere around that 20 range and so it's like. yeah you can go up to that, but as soon as you start getting bigger I always encourage people to say why Why are you doing this, why are you having more, and if you have a solid justification and that's one thing, but if it's just I, like all these sounds.

You know, as a coddling or that can be or justification, but on the other hand, one danger of that is that they're just going to be sounds that never get used yeah because you're going to forget they exist because you have so many to choose from. I have to tell you I really wish I could meet the linguist who championed the inclusion of the Labor to dental nasal. You know cliff right which is the M with tail on it that you see on the nasal because they had no idea.

They had no idea what was going to happen because of that how many conflicts we're going to say okay well here's the label nasal phoneme here is the alveoli nasal phoneme and here's the Labor to dental nasal phoneme. And so here this difference would be ma ma na yep and it's like yeah. So if you heard that difference, good for you one stupid language does it, you know which one it's it's a way, this language that has voice and.

it's Okay, yes, no it's a cool language for very cool it's a cool language, but if this one distinguishes by label voiceless and voiced frickin lives and Labor to dental voiced invoices frickin is so. That it also has my and. yeah got it got a train your ears for that one. Okay Okay, so all that is to say, that was a bit of opening advice, because that is one of the I think it's one of the bigger areas that tends to show up in chats about like hey I need feedback.

And so I just wanted to kind of like lay out some beginning advice same goes for the bell system, because they are often very, very heavy. And so, like being able to go lighter and really I mean yeah you can have larger systems and there are reasons to have larger but I definitely encourage. My students, especially as they're starting out just do a straight up file system, because you can get all lot of mileage out of those five house and proto forums.

And you can do a lot of cool things with them coming together and contact and whatnot I always encourage all con lingers to do this, at least once I think that if you just you know. I don't know throw a fish in a pond, this is the way you say this. know if you're okay if you're throwing a fish into a pond with other fish and then you're going to hit one fish and then there's like two types of fish right fish that you throw is likely going to hit a heavy morphology language fish.

As opposed to the opposite fish. Okay, I am so last on anything as i'm trying to imagine why you would throw efficient to a pond in the first place, and why, when. I told you about cleo right but fish play oh my my goldfish that got so big that it needs to jump out of the bowl and you these two weeks to come into the room and clear would be flopping around on the floor.

And we decided, well, we think that cleo does not want to be here in this bowl anymore, and so we released cleo into the ocean did. cleo may have died oh cleo swam straight away cleo was very happy we don't we dropped cleo in the. In the little river at the ports of call village, and let me tell you I saw cleo cleo dove into the water and swam away, they are clear yeah OK, but so that's like you know you throw in you know sure sure sure, but.

Can you back up and tell me what it is you encourage calm lingers to do, besides throwing fish, because I don't know what the fish actually represented okay well there's like there's like a slide you know, and you know all kinda like there's no this in terms of.

The the reunification of morphology right and it's like on one end of the slide you have a completely isolation, a language so it means you need a whole lot of compounds and also extra words that's hillary's and things like that you know, like Mandarin. And then, on the other side there's you know ineptitude huge words, everything gets built up together template if you didn't say there's work with easy. that's right we're aiming there but and then of course there's lots of stuff in between and.

It seems like the average coddling or is much more interested in the you know the Swahili range of. Of what's its languages and so you'll see a lot of Congress producing Swahili like languages i'm not like it's exactly like that language, but you know highly gluten eating on this Swahili Turkish spectrum. I would, I would encourage you to just once, try to do something that is closer to Mandarin or something like hawaiian.

Especially if you're looking at that saying well it's like well if you did that and there's nothing to create then it's like, no, no, then you definitely need to do it because there is just because. You don't have a million Val verb forms or there's no like you know affixes doesn't mean that you're not creating stuff. And so I think both phone illogically and morphologically it would be it's a good exercise for Congress to go that route into try it.

And just to see how creative you can be in every little interesting thing that you can do with those types of languages. You know, like amongst my early languages right there was you know make debut, which is a disaster which did of course have a label to dental nasal phoneme as it should, of course, but also had a regular English are, and also with TAP and also a trill. As everyone needs uh huh uh huh start to see this all right, and then.

But then like I also did like a language, it was clearly inspired by Turkish and had you know. noun cases and all these things that you did with the verbs but. But then, of course, one of my early languages was comic con we were it was just really I just love the sound of hawaiian and I wanted to get something like that, but. But it was a good exercise because it because of what I was trying to do, I was aiming well away from you know.

a ton of morphology and you know it makes you rethink how you do things and I discovered, you know, this is a lot of fun and there's a lot that you do. Both with word order and compounding and you know figuring out how these phrases work as opposed to just saying, well, here are a bunch of verb form, so now I don't have to worry about the praises you just changed the purport. it's a good exercise, and I really encourage con lagers to to tackle it at least once I would also encourage.

At least, at least once make all these languages, but at least once try to start with a three bell system yeah because same thing it's like You may be surprised the diversity that you can have from. Especially if it's the provo system that has three bells because from there, things can get expanded or shifted. But I because I have a light I know a lot of students are like oh every word is going to sound the same if I only have this many bells and it's like not actually you can get a lot of.

A lot of different forms, from just a handful of sounds and, by the way we were both wrong I looked it up, while you were chatting about it, the average consonant inventory is 19 to 25. yeah so is like right there in that sweet spot and then it's plus or minus three is the the range for what's considered average got it so that is the the range there. Okay, so that's been a lot of chit chat, we need to decide what the system will have yeah and.

delete out the sounds we we don't want in the proto system. And, of course, today we're not going to talk sound changes because that's going to be for each of us to talk about individual talk about individual decide individually to discuss in our next episode yeah. So I will, but you go first okay about what you want to either champion and say we have to have this or delete okay so obviously we need both a voiced unvoiced will Slavia potential nasal. So we're going to add that column.

Now, no but also this is this is going back to an earlier point if you've seen the the constant chart that we start with you'll notice that I just have a category called labeled and I include both by labels and label dental is in there and that's because usually you don't need a distinction. But if you do again, you can always separate it out, but I will say this when it comes to consonants especially. There is. There is a propensity amongst to con lingers and I will say that's not a bad one.

That you want to be able to you know pronounce your language right, and so you tend to steer clear of sounds that you have more trouble with. But really if you're going to do a proto language and evolve it, this is not the place for it. Because you can put all kinds of crazy things in the proto language that you cannot pronounce with the understanding that you know with sound changes you're just going to get rid of them.

But in getting rid of them it will often produce interesting results, and so this is essentially like what everybody attributes to check off. Which is if you're going to put I think I don't know if he said a cannon or gun, but he says, if you're going to put that on stage and act one you'd better fire it by the time Act two is over, with. So this is where you kind of you kind of get to set things up it's like all right, well, I don't want to use bueller series in my language, but.

If I drop it up other series in in the proto form they're interesting things that you can do with it, that are going to produce interesting bizarre results in the modern language that you wouldn't be able to predict otherwise. Then this is example, for example, this is kind of like our letter C. In the various languages that have a letter C it's always a little bit funky it's like sometimes it's Okay, sometimes it's sometimes it's sometimes it's.

And it's because you know back in Latin it was just a K, but sound change stuff happened to it, so that it got this variable pronunciation anyway so that's why, when designing a pro consonant system. You don't need to shy away from stuff that you can't pronounce so with That being said, what are you going to include okay so some of my favorite things to include the pro stage you you there's, of course, but also. an aspiration distinction and they're both with voice and voice to the voiceless.

And then, in close ups. I like to include those. With the you know with the definite intention of destroying them. Because they do funny things. I would like to. Get rid of one of these columns dental or LV older. And, obviously in getting rid of LV alert you would then maybe have dental stops Is that what you would hopefully be suggesting, yes, I say get rid of dental okay. Oh, I have to use two fingers on this.

Even though you can just make that little button down, you know what it's my computer it's my choice yeah I can just go into the preferences and change it right now, like your natural. I don't do anything with your computer changing things okay. So we got rid of the dental column yeah which, in the way that the document is set up that just means we got rid of data for the moment yeah i'm and i'm going to say we're only going to start with two nasal immonen that's that sounds reasonable.

So we can get rid of that. I don't know I mean you know we it's not like this language is intended to be anything, or it has any you know breath at this point, but I was i'm feeling he. You know, like keep the ah yeah I want to keep both models glottal stop and the ah OK. OK, so now. You had mentioned a lot of things that you you'd like to keep yeah that was just for the sake of the podcast not necessarily right this and.

And I do want to point out because it's like wow if you kept all of those that would be one hell of a consonant system, and so, really, it would be like Oh, do I want impulses. Or do I want you know the aspirated series or do I want you know, like usually there's like an or sort of situation yeah I want them all right um for this if we're keeping glottal at some point.

I mean in the pro system, we can have both feeler and uvula and then that will be interesting to see what we choose to do with it, because with having all of those backgrounds, I would. i'm not going to say what you should or should not do, and some changes, but I would imagine at some point, some of those sounds would start to be conflated mm hmm.

So that could be kind of fun to keep you fuller column for the proto forms okay so let's keep that column, for the time being, before we start printing the actual segments. let's talk about these two real quick, which is highlighted w and Jason what and yeah yeah so the actual phone rings actual one yeah. Both one or none. i'm. So many like as you're asking this i'm like already coming up with ideas for where I want to go from here and we haven't even gotten yet and everything.

I honestly would say let's. Get rid of the one keep the Okay, I was going to say get rid of them both and I was like no no i'm feeling yeah okay well in that case, what do we think about the rest of the palatable series, do you want a true palatable series, do you want to just get rid of it and just keep you. kind of want to just have you Okay, so I mean already a this is. For me it's heading in a definite like it's it's heading towards a definite end point.

But. I also want to take out the Africa. Okay yeah women. Okay, and we already got rid of the little Africa it's church and just so proto forms do not have Africa yeah. Alright, so now our stop series we've got the pb TD kg Hugh capital G and collateral stuff can you pronounce this. Well, I mean I not well, but I can so like you would have on the one hand feeler car, but then you feeler Hall, and then. Okay, what about the voice when.

You have vilar I have to start with either I gotta go yeah to work my way back gah. gah mm hmm and then of course there's no voice God oh so as you read the 200 minutes literature and so.

Like right now, that is our system are we happy with all those stops or well, let me, let me share this bit from phonetics so cross linguistically you'll see that be is more common than pk is more common than J. And then even money in between that and there's a reason for that and also like if there's barely any statistics on this, but you know club versus claw yeah plus way over represented was very rare.

But the reason for this, it has to do with the way that invoicing works, so in order for a voice to stop to be carried out successfully right. You have to have the actual stop closure and then you have to start vibrating the vocal folds so that there's kind of a more or less simultaneous release of the STOP.

With the vocal folds vibrating and in order to do that, like you, there's in why you see a lot of like nasal stop busters is because the easiest way to do it is to start vibrating them early and if you do that, you end up with a nasal because essentially everything is closed. In your mouth, but your vocal folds are vibrating that has to come out somewhere, and so it comes out the only holes that are available, your nose right so Okay, and the other thing is that if you don't do that.

Go ahead and try this on your own try to do a voice to be and really be and hold it without releasing it through your nose. yeah okay So you see what happens is like there's nowhere for the air to escape right, and in order for voicing to happen areas to pass from your lungs. Over the vocal folds to vibrate them, but if it has nowhere to escape it's just filling up inside of your mouth right and and inside of your your nasal.

cavity for like not your nasal nasal cavity with the Viola raise to there's no place where to go, so you can only do it for so long, and this is a theory, by the way, why you see fewer Gemini. voice stops because the voicing necessarily has to occur for a little bit longer and it's just hard to do. Anyway, so the The idea is that the closure at the lips it's easier to do voicing because there's a longer you know to there and kind of maintain it it's actually easier to do but minute.

Whereas at the veal i'm, the opposite is true, because much easier than God, and so, if if a language is only gonna have one of each you expected to have being expected to have K and the same with the queue and you've either one. thing and doesn't mean it's impossible it's just this is a reason why human languages do this type of thing.

And it's also why sometimes if i'm creating you know systems, I will do you know be TD K. As opposed to like the opposite right and so that's like the first place, I want to look at right now. Do we want to cut some consonants or do we want to say going back there was a distinction, because of course it's possible it's always possible to make a distinction so what's interesting is I was leaning a different way, because knowing.

That like the series PTK is is quite a common one, where you have only voiceless and you don't have any voicing distinction on stops to do that too um. So I was thinking about getting rid of the voiced consonants but then was going to raise do we want in on aspirated versus aspirated distinction on any of the voiceless consonants that we would be left stops that we would be left with.

could also do that, I think that would be interesting to see how we would treat them differently so like a P, and then aspirate a PT aspirated T. know not sure I could do, and has created and the lotto wouldn't be aspirated you did it just, naturally, the first time, oh because i'm an English speaker and I just naturally do that okay. So, in other words, can I do in. that'll be the question, do you have.

Okay that's clearly not doing it, the thing that switches the I do, but I don't remember the combo. You should make it the same as the one on mine so don't make my life is here. It says, this is about making your life easier and not about me using my own laptop.

In my own yeah but but well, but the thing is you're not doing it at all at the moment, so there was, I remember at some point what it is time Okay, so now we've got a solid series of stops we have rather than voicing distinction we've got aspirated distinction yeah that's good. So now we're looking at the frickin lives, and of course the frigate is is the one where there's just always representation in every place of articulation voiced unvoiced list so.

Right now the only voice OPS difference we have our frickin lives. What do we think about that. be crazy and we don't have voiceless fritos. I I would be on board with having no voice for creatives at all i'm the only one that I would say, maybe we could play with is maybe an sc since that alveoli replacing tense. To have something different, but at the same time I don't really want to see without all the you know, like with everything else.

So that reduces it then to five frickin lives in the prototype stage of fs and then that vilar X the feeler fancy X and the glottal H, and do you want to keep those. You know, yes, and now. there. We could do a number of things here we get rid of everything, but as an age that's simple they have a strong, for it could have been a week we're gonna we just get rid of F. Because it's actually a rare sound. We could merge the dealer and you know I often do that.

But it is kind of interesting to actually have a distinction there, especially at the prototype stage that kind of makes it fun we keep it all. For the produce stage I kind of want to keep them all okay. Alright, so the last thing that we need to look at is this approximate column. Because my mind let's get rid of the F got it. Now now i'm good Okay, so we got for forgiveness. i'll bueller bueller bueller in glottal yeah so.

We have in the approximate column, I always in the alveoli are always put you know elder flap and regular are because usually one or two of those stay. In so it's it's easier to have those to start with. We want their do you want an L and and our. that's an interesting. i'm torn like part of me wants to say no let's just have like a flap. And part of me just wants to know. Do you have any leanings. Often, like.

Having just l because then you don't have to worry about the our because our is rarely I mean it's like your language has a P it's like whatever it's got a P your language is an hour it's like a you're gonna have to learn something about it let's do. All right, let's do it. Which means we have counted correctly 17 consonants 13 1517. And that's a good, solid system, to start with, and the proto forms yeah especially again like because David has mentioned more than once, like this isn't.

Where it ends, and so we can introduce new sounds through sound changes, we can delete some of these through sound changes so we could end up going and radically different directions, depending on what we want to do from here. For the vowels to get those decided, because I also want to make sure we do get some basic roots put together. For the vowels I was thinking either just a classic file system or a three ball system, just to make it.

an easy decision, unless you wanted to also maybe have a SWAT included, we could have a four valve system with eat. Six file system with the classic five plus the one before about system, which was one of my favorites. i'm good with four of our system. Actually, suggest something a little wild I want to see if you're on board with us. So he. is doing something very will help for him. It is a file system with the Ian the EU and the RS the three, but then he's included the central Schwab.

And a front, made a yeah okay. So it's a bit of a strange system you do you do often get more distinctions in the front with front fells than you do with Central or back. So it's not like you know crazy, but it is a little bit crazy. You must be in a mood today yeah I have ideas now okay okay all right, so now we need to agree on because part of what we may need to do i'm hoping to create just a handful of routes that we can then actually use. To make a tiny, tiny sentence.

But we may need to make new routes to make our sentence work, the way that we want it to, and so I want to make sure we're in agreement on what the roots can look like in terms of form. Wait first of all, where we going to list these routes on this talk, I was just going to put them right here, and then i'm going to end up kind of cleaning up the document.

Before sharing it online and then we'll go from there, because we just don't need this much, much information let's do let's let's brainstorm some words that are going to be easy so sleep is a really easy one, because it's. Like someone's like yeah because it's in transitive and unambiguously and transitive very easy to do. i'm going to throw give on here with with the understanding we might not do it what's a very simple non violent transitive verb.

Oh God, this is really sad because, like everything that immediately came to mind was throw kick. Things like that, by. Oh gosh and then and then other difficulty is like I want to say, like something like eat or drink but that's not always necessarily it's not always transitive always transfer. And so. Although like okay okay how about grind with the understanding that you normally are grinding seeds and you know yeah i'm holding my little.

A little minding thing because the crusher grind is usually a pretty common word in language that's a good meeting it's just that often gets rid duplicated. Okay. What do you mean but sticking with that with the understanding that it's going to be just about just pick up okay.

yeah So what do you mean it often gets duplicated a word like grinder mash or crush or something like that it often will be like you know there's a route, but at a certain point, it just gets duplicated and so it's not basic. Interesting it's in Leipzig Jakarta list as the top 100 basic routes that don't get borrowed oh sure no, but it could, but it will often get duplicated you know. And you don't want to read duplicate things well I just looked at the option for it, but you know.

Okay, so pick up. These are pretty good I like I like those three we're going to need some nouns yeah so then rock is always easy, yes, and then we need some sort of agents of now. And so yeah just some am also an ambiguous but vague is the word I was going for. sort of yeah yeah this person. So it's a rock person. And then. what's a child what's a plant. And the only reason it's a child is we need give, which means we kind of need to your. plants.

let's do a basic group for that we could do tree, or we could do. We could assume that they're in a place with daisy daisy love it 34567 okay. Do we want to hit on pronouns like just I single you know, like only one pronoun or only one. yeah now we pronounce out okay. and yeah let's just let's just stick with third person for this, so, even if we end up needing something like you know agreement it's just third person okay I. think those are.

really good places to start I could also pick up like a stick. For us. Well, I mean you could be like we want. to sit in my. Other did you want places like. could have a hill. You could have. It was good over hillandale. No gail's. Okay, so I think that's a really good place to start Okay, and what I would be hoping we would both want to go for is. To make some routes to go with these that sort of maximize.

Not only the sounds but also like where they occur in the route, and so I say that the proto forms allow for dip phones. No. Yes, no he's deciding whether we're going to allow proto forms with difference, otherwise like a basic kind of CBC structure. yeah. There just aren't enough words to really. To really test out where the dip songs will go yeah okay um so like that's a really good point, especially with a small amount that we're going to be trying to compare. So yeah let's just do CBC.

123451234567 so it's 12. So it's not a good amount I think it's good for now I feel like what may happen, just because we're. I you know time constraint with how long this episode will go yeah if we need more than we can chat with each other, and we can update you on this quarter and on patreon if we add more roots and you're trying to play along at home will let you know so that way. you'll know what routes were working with Okay, so we want to do CBC do you want to have everything in the kota.

um. Why not okay. Or, or do we want to make it easier in terms of know just because then we're never going to get all the combinations. i'm fine with it okay poor sleep. super easy super small. thing. well. See. It will show absolutely there's like nothing that you can you say go simple I Mike let's make it as simple as possible about thinking like like this oh there we go that's perfect he's got K and upgraded p. Up yeah.

I had to really stop and think about it, though, because obviously I want to do aspiration backwards exactly backwards from that stuff like that Oh, I see because the top versus up yeah there you go I just had to think about it i'm to give how about. I want to see something with like a glottal stop at the end or and then maybe even a little frickin of and another word, so how about. Like soup with Su level stuff. really good. pickup up. let's trade off. I wanted to something that this.

I was just thinking. I want to do. Okay, so he's. he's doing a two syllable or two syllable. cranky yeah one key. For the next one, which is to sit I was actually going to have a. Because there's something else, I want to test out you fueler frickin. followed by the high front, he came and let's let's add an m. And if is that. We want more than once that's good, I think that we, we should have a CBC CBC CBC CB CB CB Okay, but then also CBC but, like a CV I mean that's that a new at the end.

No, sorry and he because that's the one file we don't have yet. Okay it's just that care why. it's too. yeah sorry I was just as we're thinking through the forums, did we want to have a CB vc. I don't know. US name. Is we just we just did may yeah was. So he's. syllable he's starting out with a an aspirated T. US food that's going to be difficult. For rock what's wrong in my massage what i'm dealing with here um alright we've got expert at the beginning. Okay. i'm going to do.

Something that ends in T you age 14 pH and like to write a. Report, we got one. we've only got one you okay so we're going to keep the you and i'm going to do. With Schwab front. But to oh without aspiration on the T gosh that's a two. As rock mm hmm. see what needs to me is care okay. Oh that's lovely word for child. Oh yeah. Because there's no oh yeah walk that back a little bit all right. it's going to be. it's going to start with an on aspirated. II.

um. And then we're going to have an A. X l E. it's good as child. Are you better make it beautiful, I know that you love aspirated you fuelers. Okay, so i'm gonna go. from Haiti that's a lovely all right what's our next word stick stick i'm gonna see where we don't have any initial measles, yet I don't think so i'm gonna start it with a nasal. and say it is. In a day, do we have too many days I do, I feel like. In I. And then glottal stop.

I. eat all right good stick grass we haven't started anything. we're doing an aspirated. i'm trying to think I know my words coming up next. yep cool last one. Okay. Can with the email alerts what's the point of putting things on do not disturb if it apparently still disturbs you um do we. really have one and only one. let's do oh alright i'm going to do the you feeler. followed by WHO. We already have a you have an initial position you wanted to try something else.

But what wasn't that what you said we didn't have any well, we only have one of these in one of those this one is only in kota position, this one is only an onset position gotcha okay so we'll do the vilar. And why why no way I don't remember how to do the feeler. So vilar and you feel are all in one okay cool and then why not add a yeah behind it. Oh yeah. Goodness yes awesome all right, well done well done.

Oh, my gosh okay so we've got 12 proto forms that we're going to be evolving let's very quickly decide on a basic word order so that way, we can make sentences via so. Alright, so we are going to go ahead initial vso for the basic and so, for instance in the proto form, to say the person sleeps slept whatever verbiage thing is going to happen there it's going to be COP.

cool yeah gop una that was close that would be the the promo form of that that we're going to start with, and so yeah well what's going to happen is over the next month, David and I are going to. i'm going to duplicate this document give one to him one goes to me and and I will want host one on patreon so that you can have fun to, as I mentioned, like in the live streams will, are you know will let you know if we ended up having to create a new route.

And what what we came up with, and so that way, if you want to do it to you can compare what you would do to this language, and we can see some of the many variations I think it'd be really fun if at the end of the month, like. A handful of people are actually wanted it, and then we could like share all the results kind of compile and share just how just how different this system could look depending on personal choices.

And in the moment choices, because yeah you may just be feeling something in particular that day and so yeah that will be where we're headed for our next episode. love it yay all right, well, we hope you all are having a wonderful start to February and we definitely look forward to oh my gosh, it has to be episode 24 because this is year two of doing podcasts.

yeah oh my gosh wow congratulations for making it to our second year of podcasters and we hope you all have a good start to February stay grammar and we will see you soon in in the live stream all right say grandma everybody bye.