I don't want to replace capitalist oppressors or white oppressors with another style of oppression. I want the elimination of oppression all together. This week we bring you a special episode from the We Rise Fighting Labor Podcast, where host, Tia and Brian dive deep into the power and potential of today's mass protest from the streets of LA to immigrant rights, rallies, and beyond.
Blending labor history theory and frontline analysis, they ask a vital question, where is all this energy going and what's the vision that can turn protest into lasting change? I'm Chris Garlock, and this is labor history. Today All right. Welcome back to another edition of We Rise Fighting Labor Podcast. We bring you today's labor, news, history, and analysis from the US and around the world. This is a podcast you listen to with your fellow workers organizing on the shop. Floor.
This is a podcast you listen to before walking into your union meeting. As always, I'm Tia here with my co-host Brian Pfeiffer. In this week's episode, we deviated a little bit from the usual Palestine and Labor News Report and decided to focus more so on what's happening in the streets of the US with the anti-ice protests, as well as the NO Kings protests, rallies, and mass convergences. We also ask the question, we have hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people in the streets.
Where is all this going? What's the goal here? What's the plan? What's the vision? it can't just be about these occasional mass convergences. in answering some of these questions, Brian and I get into some political theory, some labor history, and reflect on the many lessons we've learned. From Strikes and Worker Power on this podcast. We're basically asking what is to be done with these social movements? What is to be done with this burst of activism?
But first, we're gonna kick it off with a little bit of culture. Today we're playing the song Guillotine by Boots. Riley, we've chosen this song because we envision a world with no kings, no queens, no capitalists. No shareholders, no billionaires, no tyrants or ruling classes. In one simple slogan, no slaves, no masters. Here's Guillotine by Boots, Riley. You, we got your, we got the gate. We got you. We got gate. We got. We got the, we got the you. We got the, we got the. We better round.
We want to thank you for flying with us. We know you could have stayed home. Just cried and cut. Mail your guns go off if it's time to bust mail. They tanks have time to rush. They got the army turning bullets in the go. They got the hooker turning tricks in the code and every time the police kicks in, the D and angel gas breaks didn't. And even if a D Boy flips in a O, it ain't enough to buy shit anymore. Sleep in the doorway, pissed on the floor.
Look in the skyway for missiles to show it's finna blow because they got the tv. We got the truth. They on the judges and we got the proof. We got HEA people. They got helicopters. They got the bombs, and we got the, we got to, we got the, we. We got the, we got the, you better run. We got the We run. I just spit the dope lines. I don't snort them. Tell the bus call police to escort 'em. You don't ride out them lines. You just caught 'em. Get off line. Plug into this modem. No, you.
Can't out vote them the rules and still go. Nolan Jewel. We our, if you pressy gear to the turf that is stolen, you can hear the sound of limitations exploding. Please sir, may we have another portion with children of the Beast that dodge the Apportion Neck Play firm. Tune the floor and the portion with your, your shit down. Don't call it extortion. Caution. We're coming for your head. Fed can get five to shred every textbook. Read, set, bring you the bread, but guess what, we got you instead.
We got the gear, we got the team. You better buy. We got the, we got the team. You buy, we got got team. You buy, we got the. All right, what's up listeners and welcome back, today is a special edition of We Rise Fighting Labor Podcast. Today we're just gonna chop it up about current events, stuff that's happening in the streets. There's a lot of stuff happening in the streets. For instance, with the anti-ice protests. That may be some of the most significant stuff that's happening right now.
It's been tens and thousands of people on the streets in multiple cities. Protesting the actions of ice, protesting, the detainment of immigrants protesting the brutality, the shadiness, the barbarism of this agency. So that's the sort of thing that we're gonna be talking about because I was telling Brian before we started recording, I. lately I've been watching some of the late night talk shows not for my analysis, just for staying current on events.
seeing some of the images of these protests and marches I don't rely on the host of these shows for my analysis. I don't necessarily like the way they present things, but, what I do appreciate is being able to see somewhat of a liberal perspective. Some of the sharper, more liberal perspectives, that may exist out there. That's what I get from these talk show hosts. To me, it's valuable to hear, that sort of analysis.
I was telling Brian, it reminded me of the protests in Wisconsin and how we've talked about on this show, when Wisconsin was protesting Act 10, there were so many people. Surrounding the capitol, inside the capitol, flooding the capitol. You can't help but imagine the ability of the workers and community putting up a sign at the door of the capitol that says, closed to corporations. I had a friend, a comrade who once presented me with that idea, and I've never let it go.
And watching today's current events of the tens of thousands of people on the streets surrounding capitals in major cities, I can't help but think that, and I have to ask myself, how come we're not doing that? I guess that's what gets us to the meat of today's episode How come we're not doing that? You know, how come we are in quote unquote storming the castle and taking it over? How come we're not starting to run? these.
Political, these governmental institutions for ourselves in a democratic fashion, for the benefit of all. I guess that oftentimes we don't know what we're fighting for or what we're fighting towards, or what principles guide us or we're not organized. And yeah, That's what we wanted to focus on for today's show. what's lacking? What are we missing? How come we're not able to do that? Because so far it's only these mass convergences, right?
We saw, Bernie go out with a OC on this tour where they were drawing like 30, 40,000 people, I can't remember, Brian, was it like half a dozen cities or maybe a dozen. But they were drawing, noticeable crowds. 30, 40,000 again. So we've done that and right now, these protests and demonstrations against ICE, or for the liberation of immigrants, better stated like, we're doing this, but where is it going? You know, are we gonna. Just keep doing it to what point, to what means.
I've been to so many protests and finally started walking away feeling like, alright, this can't be the extent of what we do because it's good to, be out there, make a presence, make some noise, see that there's other people who are thinking the same, with the same frustrations. it's good to pick up, a newspaper with a different perspective and hear the speakers, but. Where is it all going? when are we gonna be able to take over the capital and put up that sign? that says close to corporations.
what does it take to get to that point? Does this mean that workers are gonna have to seize the means of production, so that when we're in the capital, we can nationalize industry and start running it democratically for the benefit of all, is that what it's gonna take? That's the kind of conversation that we wanna have today, because that's kind of some of the questions we're asking ourselves, like, where is this all going, you know? Protests again. They're good.
I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna knock it. Demonstration's great. You know, I'm not gonna knock it. March is great, but where is it going? When are we gonna start to see some societal change and how do we go about it? it is my belief that. Movements like these need programs or something to fight for, kind of a vision to present to people, it's like if we do storm the capitol, then what? You know, I'm Latino. like if we storm the capitol, then what? are we gonna create a different society?
Is it gonna be the supremacy of the Latino male? Or is it gonna be the elimination of supremacy altogether? Is it gonna be, us taking over and creating a new oppressor? Or is it gonna be the end of oppression altogether? Is it gonna be the end of exploitation altogether? How are we going to do that? Because honestly, if that's where things take us, if at one point people are emboldened enough to actually take over a state capital, what happens then?
Because I don't want someone who's just gonna become the new oppressor. To take over and start, running things to be in control of government and dictating what happens in society. I don't want a new oppressor. I don't want to replace capitalist oppressors or white oppressors with another style of oppression. I want the elimination of oppression all together. I think that's what we need to fight for. So. That's what today's about. That's what we're chopping it up about.
just what's happening in the streets, what does it take, where are we at dropping a little bit of political theory on you. this is all related. This is all related to those instances where we've been on the show pointing. out the power of the working class. be it nurses in Madison, Wisconsin, port workers on the East coast, dock workers on the west coast, railway workers, all these workers and their strikes have shown us the power of the working class. So What are we gonna do with that?
Are we just gonna continue with the mass convergences? Are we gonna save our unions? Are we gonna breathe some life into this labor movement? I think we have to. So we can create a vision for people to fight for something better than this capitalist hellscape that exploits workers for the sake of profit and degrades the planet for the sake of profit. So that's what today's about. We're gonna be chopping it up about that. Brian, you're watching the same stuff I'm watching.
What are your thoughts on this? Where are you at with this? What do you think when you see these mass crowds? I think the mass crowds, protests are good. What we're seeing also is there's a difference in the crowds that are protesting and resisting the, You know, the No Kings protest, of course, are a little bit different character than the ones that are happening in la and fighting Back against Ice.
And these, these protests, these character and form of the ICE protest are much more militant because of direct action resistance and self defense. Using means such as working class organization and putting forth programs, not just opposing ice, but demanding an end to AIDS and deportations, demanding an end to the attack on unions and so on many of those protests are anti-capitalist. it's one thing to protest Trump, but what kind of system are we talking about?
What kind of system do we wanna live under? What kinda world do we wanna live under? What kind of economy do we want and how are we gonna get there? what kind of program are we gonna have to get there? who's leading our movement? Is the oppress leading our movement, our working class elements leading our movement? Or is it some other. People trying to attempt to lead our movement.
and these are questions I think, that have to be grappled with as we move forward, especially this summer, which I think are gonna see. It's gonna be a lot happening. Of course, right now we see the United States. It's not, of course it is Israel, but the US is the one responsible for the attacks, primarily on. He ran and giving the go ahead to Israel, the garrison settler state of the US to attack Iran.
At the very time here in the United States, people are just suffering mercilessly getting raided by ice, getting attacked by ice, the abominations that are happening, children being attacked, being deported, and, and we know that there's, really horrific things going on in the detention centers from rapes to abuse, from ICE and other, repressive state agencies our entire apparatus, our safety nets are being attacked from social security to Medicare and everything
else, and now the US wants to wage another war against a sovereign nation. That, by the way, has the right. To nuclear weapons and has the right by United Nations law and policies to defend itself against aggression, of the West in any country that's going to invade it, such as the US or France or any other, NATO power. there's a lot going on, but, completely agree, Rick, that now's the time to start having these discussions, to start talking about these things and where are we going?
one of the items we talked about before the show was when we have. People in the streets. What are we doing with them in Wisconsin right now? There's a good example of this, right? The United Auto Workers Local 2 91 has been in strikes since March 18th. Three months now on strike, and it's fantastic that, thousands of people hit the streets in Wisconsin in dozens of cities last weekend.
But wouldn't it be something if those folks brought a box of food and some strike donations and hit the picket lines from 7:00 AM to 5:00 PM every day of the week for these strikers, there's major population centers within an hour or two hour or two or less than, Oshkosh, Wisconsin.
So thinking creatively about how we could bolster working class organizations that are in motion and fighting back like our brother, David Horta, attacked, by ICE and Brutalized and put in the hospital the President of Service employees International Union in California. He's being charged with many, potential felonies, facing years in prison for simply, standing up for his members.
A huge sector of the working class that's in unions in this country today is, our immigrants or, former migrants or former immigrants. And it's a multinational workforce that we're seeing in SEIU Unite here. many unions are being much more diverse than they used to be. So these questions that we're raising today, there's a lot of dynamics to it. And for this show here, we believe that it's important to raise these.
Discussions 'cause it does have, literal life and death consequences when you have a program That's correct. Or a program that is incorrect. And what kind of philosophy and what kind of social justice are we talking about here, that we're trying to organize. protests are one thing and we have leaders in the past and we've talked here about the difference between spontaneity.
Being organized and having leadership organization and a program, it's absolutely incredible, to both of us that since the second Trump took office until right now sitting here with you, Rick. The national A-F-L-C-I-O hasn't even called the Solidarity Day rally in Washington dc we're seeing the greatest attacks probably in a hundred years on labor and organized labor in the United States.
Even for their very survival, not calling a national nationwide solidarity day in Washington DC or multiple regional actions It's good that individual unions are calling protests like the American Federation of Government employees have been doing what they can, but they're up against it. This has gotta be a complete, full offensive by organized labor and unions against this Trump administration in this period.
And that has to include programmatic elements like creating anti-fascist brigades, appealing to the National Guard, appealing to the army. These are the Marines. These are working class elements. They're, they're fighting the wrong people in the streets. They're enemies just like our enemies. The working class in these formations, the National Guard as Wall Street and the banks and corporations, not migrants, not, working people who are just trying to survive and take care of their families.
And so there's a lot to discuss. We here at, we Rise Fighting. We'll be working on these issues in the streets with our fellow workers and fighting back against ICE and any others that are, attacking our fellow workers and people in our communities. And, we're gonna continue to discuss and uphold the resistance that's taken place from LA to occupied Palestine. I feel that, as you were saying what if we stopped calling them immigrants?
What if we stopped calling them illegals I don't believe that. But what if the media stopped calling them illegals? What if we started recognizing them from a different angle? They're workers. And these particular workers handle the majority of the labor involved in Agriculture. The food that feeds us, construction that houses us janitorial services. Hotels, restaurants, this is where those workers work, They are just another set of workers that are necessary in society.
And I guess the one set of people who isn't necessary in society is the capitalists. You know, because they're just there to extract the profit. They don't do anything. They just extract the profit. But somehow it's these workers that are the problem, No way. That work doesn't get done without immigrant workers, construction, agriculture, restaurants, hotels, janitorial services.
No. That work doesn't get done without workers, without immigrant workers, I think we have to start giving ourselves that kind of significance. We have to start giving our labor that kind of significance. You know, that's one of the things that we can say about this show is that we go around highlighting that significance, be it in the labor of the workers and the labor that they do. Or the lessons that we learned from strikes.
Alright, that's another thing that we've been consistent on, from the very beginning, is talking about strikes and all the lessons that we can learn from, strikes It's like we have to hold onto those and carry those so that when we look at these mass protests, we have some ideas as to how we could function From all the lessons that we learned from these strikes, how to feed each other, how to take care of each other, mutual aid, solidarity.
Community support organization, like all of those are lessons from strikes that would give us answers to what next when we look at these mass convergences. So that's why we do this podcast and that's why we're talking about that today because all our PA podcasts have been that we've been following strikes and Palestine, we've been following strikes and extracting the lessons from strikes. So that we have something tangible, so that we have something worth fighting for.
a collection of lessons that will help us in guiding a new and better world, or at least give us the bravery to fight for something as we've also been saying on this show, you know, unions, they're like, they're like the schools for class consciousness. They're, a microcosm of what a larger society should be. Our unions should be democratic. Why should they be democratic?
Because in instances like these, when the masses are flooding the streets and capable of taking over the capitol and running things democratically, we already have an idea of what democracy actually looks like. You know, we already have an idea, that, the voice of a white worker has equal weight as the voice of a black worker a queer worker an immigrant worker or a trans worker. They all have equal voices. We already roll in with that understanding. We don't have to clarify that.
That's why these ideas are so important. That's why theory's so important. That's why we've been covering this sort of thing throughout the duration of this podcast. we're over three years deep into this podcast, and we've been consistent on that. Any strike there is, we try to extract the lessons. We give value to the labor of the workers in the strike.
the most notable examples for this podcast have been the port workers, the railway workers, the Madison teachers the graduate employees organization, Rutgers strikers. we've covered a lot of strikes and we've learned a lot of lessons, and I think that's some of the things that we have to start carrying. And Brian, I think you hit the nail on the head. What if we didn't show up?
or what if on top of showing up for these rallies, we also showed up to rebuild our unions and create these schools and these microcosms of what a larger society should look like. It's an equal amount of effort. I think it's worth experimenting with. how long are we gonna do these mass convergences to no avail, to no payout to no movement forward. Okay, we converged in mass again. Now what? when are we making a move?
When are we gonna start building a better society from the shell of this old society? those are the questions that are burning and bouncing around in my head. Brian. What are your thoughts? Well, we talk a lot about labor history on this show, right? There's a lot of labor history that could be updated today. This is real. Just to start with a question, why are we allowing the austerity, racist, anti-worker? Entity, which is not even, approved by Congress to shut down Social Security offices.
Why? In 1937 in Flint, Michigan, the UAW, which was led at that time by Socialists and other militants came up with a legal argument that a job is a property right. A job is a property, right, and they won the Michigan Supreme Court. They won the ruling because the workers were occupying the plant. The union made the argument that this corporation has gotten money from the public and tax subsidies and other corporate welfare.
These workers have given their labor value, their sweat and blood Therefore, these plants belong to us. Why are we, I mean, we have to start raising these questions. In Wisconsin they shut down six, two year campuses. in the uw system, in the past few years, these campuses have been in existence for 50 years. funded by millions of dollars by the taxpayers. The tuition is paid by the students, which most are working class students.
A lot of the, campuses have gotten funding from all kinds of different tax entities. Why are we just allowing them to be shut down without any resistance, without any occupation? when it comes to oppressed students, that's a genocidal action, and that's defined by the United Nations. Genocide is not just slaughtering and killing people. Genocide is taking away people's culture is when it, when it comes to oppressed people in particular, those of African descent, et cetera.
taking away DEI, all of these activities, but even for white working class students in these areas, these are working class bases. Besides the union hall, where are you gonna go to learn these skills or get access to education or get access to culture or theater or music? Why are we allowing this to happen? Why are we allowing our generations of our children just to their futures being destroyed?
Why are we just letting Social Security offices be shut down or any other entity that's from the federal government or state government? These belong to US workers. Workers in other countries like France, they have demonstrations. They were gonna raise the retirement age by two years, and they had a million people or more out on the streets shutting it down. we gotta get to it like this is, this is not just that. shutting down a social security office is an act of murder, is an act of killing.
These social security offices are in areas now, seniors who have all kinds of potential mobility issues or all kinds of things that are challenged by their family. They might not be able to get there. Their family might be outta state and their, their family might have been helping 'em online to get the benefits and resources.
And now if you're in a rural place, let's say in a state like Wisconsin or some other place in the Midwest Now you're a senior and you don't have a license or a car and the office isn't open anymore and you don't have access to computers that could potentially kill you, right? Just like the tax on the postal service, there's millions of people today that get medication from the postal service in their mail for their, diabetes or whatever medications they might need.
these are deadly, serious murderous type actions. Why are we just letting people get away with this? Yeah. the protesting is good, but let's keep our working class organizations and our entities that we've paid for as workers through our taxes alive. We have a right to these. A job is a right, so security is a right. A human right, a moral right, an economic right per the United Nations.
the United States could be brought like the black workers before us, like Mr. Paul Robeson and his spouse, Mrs. Slanda Robeson and Dr. Du Bois and many of the black socialists they brought before the United Nations that we charge genocide against people of African descent in the United States. The United States is guilty of so many. Violations of the charter for human rights and internally, domestically, there are many things that we could do.
So the protests are fantastic and we need to keep them moving, and it instills confidence in people. But questions of the day about occupations, about strikes, about general strikes, about appealing to the troops. these are the questions that we should be asking today. Why are we going beyond protest to direct actions and other types of activities? And in that process, as I said before, leadership organization and a program, what kinda leadership do we have? What kind of organization do we have?
What kind of program do we have? Does the program contain anti-war elements? If you look at the US economy, the majority of the money goes to the banks and debt service. Corporations and corporate welfare and a trillion dollar Pentagon budget. Yeah. And that's what we know of. We know that Israel and a lot of other countries get billions more through all kinds of different ways. So if our program doesn't reflect that kind of element, what are we really talking about here?
We gotta go to the nerve center. that's where the real money is. You've done great corporate research, Rick, if we're being serious. these are the types of things, in my view, that we have to, and I think we're raising here and always fighting as well, that, as we move forward in the struggle to be serious about these questions and about these types of activities but the activities have to relate to the program and demands. What are we demanding?
Well, we don't want a racist anti-worker Trump as president. most people can agree on that, but what do we want? What are we demanding? What do we need? That's the question. So go ahead. What are we fighting for? What are we fighting for? And again, going back to all those strikes that we've covered every single time that we cover a strike. The question always burns. Why do we need the buses? Why? Why do we need the buses? Why do we need the owners? Why do we need the owners of corporations?
They don't do anything. They just collect, they collect profits. they control revenues. That's all they do, quote unquote, you know, I'm over here with air quotes. Like, they don't do anything. They don't produce anything worthwhile for society. We do the workers, the people who are in the workplace, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80 hours per week. Per week in this institution, this like authoritarian institution, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80 hours per week in an authoritarian institution called Work For what?
So the owners get the profits. Come on now. you're gonna tell me With all these lessons, from all these strikes and all this labor history, you can't think of a system better than this. Good Lord. No way. That's why we have this podcast to highlight this stuff. these are the accomplishments of you, the working class, the strikers, the people who put their necks up, who put it all on the line. These are the lessons you gave us that you gifted us with, and we're just holding it back at you.
letting you know, Hey, these could be ingredients for a better world than this. this could be something worth fighting for. that's what we do on this show. this is episode number 114 or something like that. Look back at our episodes. we have specialized episodes, like themes, strictly about strikes, strictly about anti-war, strictly about, an interview or something like that. But we. usually just do labor news and cover strikes. listen to any one of those shows about the strikes.
You'll see that there's always lessons to be taken from strikes. Direct worker action and those are the types of lessons that can help to create a better society. Those are the types of lessons that help bring us one step closer to that, to the realization of being able to hang a sign that says, close to corporation when we flood the capitol.
So. That's what we're about here, and we just wanted to take this show to kind of pause and talk about, the political theory and where things are going right now. because we couldn't ignore some of the stuff that's happening in the streets. we felt compelled to comment on some of the stuff, like I was saying, several months back when, when Bernie and a OC were, were on tour, where is this going? Where is it going? You know, like it's almost forgotten at this point, the Bernie a OC tour.
Like where did it go? You know, just more mass convergences. I appreciate that we have a space where we can gather, converge, exchange information, hold up a sign, vent frustration, have good chance, maybe, you know, have a good speaker or so. But where is it going? That's the question we're asking here. And the answer we're proposing at least from the point of view of this podcast, is that you've given us the answers already.
Postal workers, public sector workers, private sector workers, port workers, railway workers, graduate employees, All types of workers that we've talked about on this show, always have some kind of answer, some kind of little clue, that we can use for building a better world. they give us these clues. these insights through their direct action, through their strikes, by putting it all on the line.
So we're just talking about that and highlighting that and letting y'all know that these mass convergences could go in another direction. just wanted to put this out there for your consideration. So that's what we got in today's episode of We Rise Fighting. Thank you always, everyone for listening. again, we try to come at you once a week, more or less. We don't always make that mark. So if you like what we do, please go ahead and subscribe, like, share. Whatever it is you do.
Thank you again everyone for listening. Solidarity and love to all. That's it for this week's edition of Labor History Today. Thanks for listening and very special thanks to the We Rise Fighting Podcast. For this week's show, you can find we rise fighting wherever you listen to podcast [email protected]. Labor History today is produced by the Labor Heritage Foundation, and the cowman of its Initiative for Labor and the working poor at Georgetown University.
Keep up with all the latest labor arts, news and history. Subscribe to the Labor Heritage Foundation's Weekly [email protected] for labor history today. This has been Chris Garlock. Thanks for listening. Keep making history. We'll see you next week. We got the gear, we got the team. You better buy. We got the, we got the team. You buy, we got got team. You buy, we got the.