and this. Drunk came on and he started showing me a bad time, and I up and popped him and knocked him out. The soldier. One arm, I got the other, we put him beside the telephone pole. We got back in, give a bell, and away we went. And never knew what happened to the guy. He, you could still be sitting there, I don't know, Welcome to Labor History Today. I'm Chris Garlock. That was Pearl Whatum, one of Vancouver's legendary conductor ats.
The women who kept the city streetcar running during World War ii while the men were away fighting fascism. On today's show from our colleagues at On the Line Stories of BC Workers, we share those stories firsthand, accounts of grit, humor, and union solidarity from the front lines of public transit. It's a powerful look at gender labor and what it took to keep a city moving in, wartime all that plus labor history. And two, stay with us. Welcome to yet another edition.
On the line, the podcast with a heart that tells stories of workers and unions from BC's Rich Labor heritage. I'm your affable host Rod borough. In this episode, we bring you the long lost story of the industrious women who worked on Vancouver Street cars during World War II when so many men were overseas fighting fascism. In Europe, they were known as conductor rats. Much of their story was recounted in the buzzer blog, which replaced the old printed version of the buzzer. Longtime transit.
Users may remember that informative little publication they could read between stops. The article brought to light long ago interviews with three conductor ATS from the 1940s, Pearl Wa Vilma Wester Home and Edra McLeod. You'll hear from all three of these feisty women. And as a special bonus to get you in the streetcar flavor, here's a fun song by no less than stomping Tom Connors about driving a streetcar in Toronto.
I've been a streetcar driver now about 11 years, and I know the old Toronto City. Well, there's a whole lot of people who wait along the track for the signal. From my clang and trolley Bell, I'm a TT CLER socket from a big. Red Rattler got a socket from a big red Rattler. Put the pole on the wire now and open up the switch. It's time to get old Rattlers sparking through. She is red around the bottom and she's yellow on the top and I drive her like a driver Ought do. I am a T to my big red.
I got a sock to my big street cars. First appeared on the streets of Vancouver in 1890, just four years after the city was wiped out by the great fire. As the city expanded, so did its network of street car lines. Some of these lines are still with us today, although the street cars have long since been replaced by trolley buses in those days. Vancouver's transit system was privately owned and operated by the BC Electric Company.
The streetcar operators belonged to one of the strongest unions in the city, which became the Amalgamated Transit Union. How strong During the months Long General Strike by Vancouver workers in support of the 1919 Winnipeg General Strike, not a streetcar. Moved threats by the mayor that operators would be fired if they didn't go to work. Were simply ignored. When women began to be hired, the union ensured that they had the same rights, privileges, and wages as men.
The women had responded to ads placed by BC Electric in the Vancouver Sun, calling for women aged 25 to 35 to work as conductors on the street cars. Their duties included taking fares, collecting tickets, calling out stops, and working with the motor operator who drove the streetcar. According to the ad, applicants would be judged on the basis of their appearance and quote, general intelligence unquote. First preference went to women who were married to men serving overseas.
However, according to Pearl Watham, hiring practices sometimes strayed into surprising territory. She was hired in 1944 with a good sense of humor. I don't know if it was one question I was asked or not. You're too young to hear this, but one of the questions that he asked me, is your sex drive better in the morning or at night? And I said anytime. Where was he asking you that? I don't know. It was just one of the things to see if I was good for daytime or nighttime, I guess.
I don't know. Vilma, Wester Holmes hiring interview was also kind of oddball. I. And then one day my husband said, gee, I see girls on the BC Electric. And uh, and I said, gee, that sounds interesting, you know? So I thought, well, I'll go in and see what it's all about. So I, I think it was a. Campbell that was, uh, in the employment office at the time. Oh my goodness. She says, how about the street cars? I said, street cars. I don't know anything about street cars. I love driving.
And she says, well, I'll tell you what she says. This was about Friday. She says, over the weekend, you go, how tall are you? I said, I was five foot five then. And uh, how much did you weigh? I said, I weighed about 115, I guess at that time. And she says, you. You go home over the weekend, you go and add another couple inches to your height and uh, then, uh, add another 10 pounds and then go up and up to the office on Monday and see Mr. Rol, I think it was, and, and, and try there.
So I thought, oh, it wasn't that silly on there. I make, but, uh, they, they did take me in spite of my side. But Edra McLeod said her experience was more straightforward. Company. I went to the company right. And, uh, we had exams and they were chosen from these IQ tests we took. You're listening to labor history Today where we explore the stories that shaped the working class.
This week we're hearing from the conductor at the women who ran Vancouver's Street cars during World War II with the backing of their union. If you're enjoying the show, be sure to subscribe and share now, back to their story. Were there any kinds of, um, regulations around the kind of women that they wanted to hire at all, or in the beginning they, they wanted to take on women that were 25.
And their husbands were overseas, but there were many women that had no husbands overseas, and some of them were younger 'cause they didn't have that much choice. Really, the workforce was small because of so many men and women by that time overseas too. All told close to 200 women were taken on as streetcar conductor rats during the war. At the start, they were not given uniforms, but as Pearl Watham soon learned, there was a real need for clothing that was appropriate for the job.
No, you had to have a dark skirt and a coat and a bls and imagine a skirt when you had to climb up on top of the street car and fix the trolleys. Why G it to climb on top of the street car because it was your job, but to do what? To fix a trolley. How was that?
The trolley's a thing that goes up to get the juice in it and if it came off or anything, you had to climb up on top to put it back on and going up the side of a street car in and your wind would blow and you're scared to come up over your head and hold lawn. Did did you have to. Did you have to ask to get pants or No? Did they decide? No, they decided because we screamed so hard. So you had to command it? Yeah. We said there's no goddamn place for a woman up there with her skirt over her face.
Yeah, which it wasn't. Pearl did not hesitate to call for improvements in the conductor ATS work environment. Well, I used to have to work nights, and then one of the girls in the class, she took day work and she wanted to trade, so I traded with her and from then on I never worked nights again. You didn't like it? Well, it affected your social life. It affected everything. Because, uh, you had to go to work about four 30. Well, what can you do up to four 30?
It's only after four 30 that things start to happen. And, uh, when she offered to trade the guy behind the desk, which we call him the supervisor, uh, he um. I said, oh no, you can't do that. So we got a book and we wrapped it all up. Pretty, pretty, pretty How to win friends and influence people to buy digging car Carnegie. And we gave it to him and we got our trade. Once hired as Conductor Rats. The women were trained in a classroom, and then on the job, the street card driver was up front.
The conductor rats were at the back looking after the fares and transfers for the system to work well, the driver and conductor had to be in sync. This did not always go smoothly. Vilma Wester home. Yeah, we worked as a team. Sometimes there were times when, uh, you during, uh. The street cars. We had to, when we came to a railway track, we had to open the doors on the run sort of, and get off and run in front of the street car and just, and then, and, um. Take him across, wave him across.
That was a sort of safety feature that they had, you know, and then you'd have to go back and jump onto, onto while he was going across. And some of them forgot about us, so they kept going and just left us there. And we'd have to, we have to summarize with the next car that came along to catch up that happened. Oh yeah. That happened quite often. But that was just, you know, um. Fun. You know, sometimes they did it for fun.
I think sometimes they just really forgot other than sometimes being left behind. The women reported in general, however, that they got along fine with their male colleagues. ADRA McLeod was asked if the men resented women being hired to work with them, particularly when some later became drivers like herself and, and it wasn't so much, uh, the man. Saying this is the people that, that got on your streetcar and had things to say to you. Um, you didn't really find out how the men felt.
You, you knew individually how, whether any of them accepted you or not. Uh, the, the girls were, were very good. We had to be, we had to be better than them. We worked hard. We could load. And the thing, the, the idea was how fast you could get to the end of the line. And, you know, and, uh, there were girls that were well known for. The guy didn't even have to stop a streetcar. The people just jumped right on and away you went and, and there was, this was how you were judged.
You know, how, how capable, but you had to be better. Mm-hmm. Or you didn't make it. You, you, uh. You worked, you worked for it. Uh, for instance, when I started driving and I got on this Oak Street car, which had from 16th Avenue on Oak, right down to Marpol, was a single track and had switches that you, you went to 15 blocks and you went into the switch and you waited for this guy to come from town or whether you're going the other way, coming from Mar and you exchange these staffs and, uh.
Okay. The first time I showed up on one of those as a driver, the looks I got, oh my God. There goes the old Oak Street line, you know, it's buggered now there's a woman on it. And I, I worked make sure that I, nobody ever had to wait for me. You just had to be better. In those days, there was no other way out. Fight, fight, fight. What the trolling, the, the, with. The day was bright, was free.
The I, in fact, I. Passengers sometimes criticized the women for doing a man's job, but they could take that in their stride. Dealing with unruly riders was much more of a challenge for Vilma Wester home that took a quick wit, and every now and then a bit of Braun. Actually, I found the people very nice. I really did. They were very seldom that there was, oh, you'd get the odd drunk, you know, usually handled by, and some of them would be drinking in the on the buses and be in a real.
Mood, you know, so you didn't know just what to do. So I always said, didn't you ask me to, you were going to transfer it being on Broadway, or whatever it happened to be. You'd mumble something. I says, gee, look at your car's waiting right there. If you hurry, you'll catch it. So they tumble off, you know, on the way they go. But one way of getting rid of them without starting. Yeah, it worked without starting anything.
Hm. I remember when, I remember once I was on the street curse and this man came along and he was so insulting, his bowel language and everything else, and he came along and he had two big jars of honey like this under his arm, and he was so insulting. I said, look, I said, if you don't get off my street car, I I, I'll really hit you this. And I picked up the, the switch iron, which you used to, to pry the, the tracks, you know mm-hmm. On the sw to change tracks with change switches.
Move the switch. Yeah. Move the switch. That's right. And, uh, he, he really got scared and he. Jumped off the bus and me, I had stopped the street car, or rather the street car, I'm getting mixed up. I, I had stopped the street car and I ran after him. I was so mad. I ran after him and, and this was at 33rd and Main, and he ran across the street. This was at night, late at night. I ran, he ran right across the street and then he fell on the curb and he bust all his. All his honey jars.
So I thought he had enough punishment, but that's the only time I think I ever got mad at anybody. That was it. Pearl WA also gave no quarter with troublesome passengers. Well, I'll never forget this. One time I had a drunk. Trying to get on, and there was a soldier standing at the back, as you know, the street cars. They had the one door there and one door there. This one opened and they could come around this way or this one opened. They come that, well, he was standing at the back and this.
Drunk came on and he started showing me a bad time, and I up and popped him and knocked him out. The soldier. One arm, I got the other, we put him beside the telephone pole. We got back in, give a bell, and away we went. And never knew what happened to the guy. He, you could still be sitting there, I don't know, but, oh, the words he used was, you'd have popped him too. Yeah, all the four letter words in the deck.
Most of the women had limited knowledge of unions, but they quickly became union supporters. Pearl Whatum became a job steward, uh, because the union had such a big say. Yeah, all your troubles went through the union regardless of who you were. And the union was supposed to have a smart man in there and he'd take it to the company and you would get your own way. And, uh, one time I thought. Well, I might as well be a shop steward and take the people's troubles.
If I can't settle 'em, I will take him. And this one time after the war was over, this girl got pregnant and so they fired her. And so I went up. To the union and I said, just because she had an accident is no sign. You have to fire her. He says, but she's pregnant. I said, after 14 years of married life, that is an accident. I don't know what it is. What happened she got back on. The only thing the union insisted was we join the union. Yeah. No scabs.
Yeah. That is the only thing, and I'm glad that it did. Why? Well, I would hate to be labeled a scab. Mm-hmm. And I'm sure all the rest of the girls felt the same way. Yeah. If we hadn't, a John Union would've been scabs. So. It is just that simple. Did you have strikes? No. One. Yes. One. Mm-hmm. And I was cook for the strikers. Was that on buses or street cars? Street cars. And maring in that those days was white and so they always had a little bit of yellow to mix in with it. And my job was.
To mix it yellow and gee, I'd just stir up and give her hell. And that's, so it came out nice and yellow and we'd make the sandwiches and the men thought it was butter. When, what was the food went to the men who were on strike? Yeah. Mm-hmm. How long did the strike last? 30 days. Yeah, but we got what we wanted. Uh, 'cause there was no transportation at all when the buses were on strike. People didn't have cars in those days. Yeah, they were just stymied.
There was constant pressure to keep the street cars moving and on schedule that meant making sure passengers entered and exited quickly. Company supervisors were stationed along the route. They kept a sharp eye on the clock. If a street card did not arrive on time, supervisors were not happy. This closed supervision continued even after new street cards called four Hundreds came online, there was now only the operator on board. Who both drove the streetcar and collected fares.
The same was true of course, when buses replaced the streetcar film, the Wester Home, then a driver recalled a close call with one supervisor. But, uh, and finally, uh, they, they got rid of the street cars. And, um, I had to ask if I could, uh. Uh, start on the, um, buses, uh, and, uh, no on the, uh, new Street cars. They had the four hundreds I wanted to drive there. And they said, no, we're gonna phase 'em all out. So it's kind of late for that.
But I did drive one and I would've got fired if they knew about it because, uh, we used to take street cars from the, from one barn on, on Main Street Main and 12th to at night. You know, used to change different cars, take them in different, into different. Um, barns as they call 'em. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, bill Green said to me, he says, uh, would you like to drive one of these? You know, there's 400. I said, oh, I'd love to. He says, okay.
And he was taking my, we had used my car to get over there, so we'd left it there while we were changing cars back and taking cars back and forth. And then, uh, and then on the last trip, he says, I'll take your car and you take this 400. And he told me where all the switches were. That was from Kit Line up Granville Street and along Granville, uh, along Broadway. And he showed me, he showed me what two for. The switch at Oak Street, but he forgot to tell me about Cambi.
So here I am, my mouth is all set to go straight ahead, you know, to Main Street. And about half, I don't know, I, I just couldn't believe it. But I was halfway down, down Cambi Street before I realized that the car didn't move, you know, and the car hadn't switched, gone down, gone, gone down Cam instead, because I didn't know that I had. He hadn't told me about changing switches. You know, you can control the switches, you mean? Yeah, but with your foot on the pedal.
And he hadn't, he had forgotten telling me that. So here I am going down Camby Street and I had to cross over Camby Bridge and there was uh, one of the fellow, one of the supervisors, big Mac, they used to call him. He used to be out night and day. I'm sure he spent all his life going around seeing if we were on time or they were late or what have you. And I knew darn well that there were, there was very few girls that would be on out that late, you know?
So I thought, well, if he sees me on, I'll, I'll, I'll be fired because I know business driving that. At 400. So I thought, oh my gosh, what do I do? I don't wanna be fired. I like my job. So I put my hair underneath my cap and I got my eyebrow pencil and I put my mustache on and I thought, gee, they'll think it's a man and they won't notice me then. So I finally got through, I went to around Main Street. He used to stand on, um, on the steps of the library.
The old library, you know the one that main In Hastings? Yeah. Yeah. Used to stand there all the time. Watch the cars go by and, uh. So I snuck right by him and he looked and he looked, but he didn't come out or stop me anywhere. So I got to the barn, all right, but I been fired right there. And then they had no, I was driving, uh, had a lot of fun. Pearl Watham also remembered the stresses of running on time and being monitored by the dreaded supervisors.
You get, so the calloused that you say, oh, to hell with it, and anyone that let those things bother them, they don't last very long. They're gone. I'll never forget, uh, I was working McDonald Street and it was buses and it was the last line that the new guys would be on before they'd have to go up for their exam. And this guy, he had his hands. Well, let me take the wheel and I'll show you how to relax. So I took the wheel and I got back on time.
When we got the end of the line, we were still three minutes late. So I said, I'll drive down to Broadway and you can take over. When we got to down to Broadway, I was three minutes ahead of time and the supervisor runs out and held up his hand. God, I had a notion to run over him, but I didn't. And he says, you're three minutes ahead. I says, we were three minutes late going up. Okay. I said, give us credit. No, I'm gonna report you. I says, you report me in your, had your last report.
And I drove on, well, he did report me and I went up to the head office and they said, how about this? And I told them all my little story. And she says, that's all right. We'll drag him in here and give him for a what? So I guess they did. The conductor rats weren't the only women taken on by BC Electric during the war. The transit system became so busy. The company also hired Women Street Guides. They took out newspaper ads to prepare transit writers for their appearance.
Mr. And Mrs. General Public, the ads proclaimed. May we introduce the new BC Electric Guides, uniformed and well-trained girls available to give information, sell City Street car tickets, and make change the guides. Were located on busy street corners with the aim of easing the workload of the conductor Rats. The one person street cars and trolley buses had put an end to the need for conductor rats, and over time, BC Electric stopped hiring women drivers as well.
By the early 1970s, there were only three left. I. One of those still behind the wheel was Edra McLeod, who had both seniority and experience. That was a huge asset. After the 1972 election of Dave Barrett and the NDP, they poured money into public transit and scores of young new drivers were hired. Ms. McLeod was there to help them out. She also played a role in the union even though she herself never ran for office.
I think if I had run, I would've got in, but it would've been a personality thing rather than, uh, knowing. And I hadn't become involved that much in the union activity. Just that I did appreciate. And I fought and I talked mostly to the men and made them understand what it was all about, especially these young people when, when the NDP came in and, and hired. For two years.
They hired 20 every Monday, so they were, at one point there was 75% of the men on the job had less than two years service. And I had to do some talking because there was no way that they could know the issues. I feel, and I think most, a lot of them through me, realized that history was important because of how you got it and, and why, and what, what the issues were. We hope you've enjoyed this.
Look back in time to the age of the streetcar and the women who helped keep them running during the war. And afterwards. The buzzer blog article about the Conductor Rats was published in 2009. It was written by Jennifer Pano. She had assistance from Lisa Cod. Then the curator of the Burnaby Village Museum and Linda Maeve Orr, the interviews with VMA Wester Home, EDRA McLeod, and Pearl Ra were conducted by Richard Paman of the Vancouver Historical Society and Sarah Diamond.
The TTCS Schadler was of course written and performed by the legendary Stomp and Tom Connors. The trolley song is from the MGM Musical. Meet Me in Vancouver, uh, St. Louis. And as always, thanks to the other members of the podcast collective, Donna Kuda, executive Director of the BC Labor Heritage Center, Patricia Weir, who did most of the research and script writing and producer John Mamt, who put it all together. I'm your transit loving host. Rod nickel. We'll see you next time on the line.
I'm Rick Smith, and this is labor History. In two on this day in labor history, the year was 1987. That was the day that Rose Will Monroe. One of the women who came to be known as Rosie the Riveter, died in Clarksville, Indiana. I. She was 77 years old. Rose had gone to work in a factory making B 52 bombers in Ypsilanti, Michigan during World War ii. She was one of thousands of women in the United States who entered the industrial workforce to support the war effort.
While more and more men entered the armed forces. While Rose Will Monroe worked at the factory, the image of Rosie the Riveter was already becoming perhaps one of the most iconic symbols of US labor. The nickname Rosie the Riveter was first used in a song in 1942. The song was inspired by another real life. Rosie Rosalyn p Walter worked during the war building, Corsair Fighter Plant.
Along with the song, a popular poster showed Rosie with a red kerchief tied around her hair, sleeves rolled up, arm muscles flexed, showing the strength of women workers we can do. It wasn't blazed across the top of the poster. Then an actor by the name of Walter Pigeon visited the Ypsilanti factory. He was helping to make a promotional film to support the war effort at home. When he found out there was a real Rosie who worked as a riveter in the plant, he recruited her for the film.
The Image of Rosie the Riveter lives on as a symbol of labor and women's empowerment. Holiday long weather, Rainer shine. She part of the assembly line. She's making history working for victory. The river keeps a sharp lookout for sabotage. Sitting up there on Rosie Labor history and two, brought to you by the Illinois Labor History Society and the Rick Smith Show. For more information, go to labor [email protected] on the riveting machine when they gave her a production.
Hey, that's it for this week's edition of Labor History Today. You can subscribe to LHT on your favorite podcast app. Even better, if you like what you're here. Sure. Hope you do. Please like it, share, and leave a review that really helps folks to find the show. Labor history in Two is a partnership between the Illinois Labor History Society and the Rick Smith Show. That's a labor themed radio show out of Pennsylvania.
Very special thanks this week as always to our colleagues at On the Line stories of BC Workers for sharing the story of Vancouver's wartime conductor rats you'll find on the line wherever you listen to podcasts. Labor History today is produced by the Labor Heritage Foundation and the Kil Benefits Initiative for Labor and the working poor at Georgetown University. You can keep up with all the latest in labor arts and culture.
Subscribe to the Labor Heritage Foundation's free weekly [email protected] for labor history today. This has been Chris Garlock. Thanks for listening. Keep making history. We'll see you next time.