¶ Intro / Opening
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¶ Début de la couverture ukrainienne
Je suis Sophie Larmoyer et il est l'heure du monde en public et dans l'auditorium du monde. Aujourd'hui, l'heure du monde a 5 ans et depuis un peu plus de 5 ans justement mon invité couvre les agissements
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Faustine Vincent puisque c'est elle De raconter le basculement d'une société dans la guerre davantage qu'une guerre. At the occasion of the anniversaire of our podcast d'actuality, we have choisis de revenir avec plus. of the redaction du Mond on the way that the domain he covered has evolved during six months. Faustine Vincent is with us. au service international du monde, elle va nous raconter comment sa zone.
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Par l'invasion russe, une déflagration dont les répercussions continuent de Ukraine, 5 années de résistance dans la guerre. An episode de Marion Botorel, réalisation Amandine Robillard. bonjour faustine
Bonjour Sophie.
I will demand an exercise plutôt difficile when the invasion rushed to the Ukraine after February 2022 is to boulevers. It's to have a bond on arrière. Peux-tu nous raconter à quoi ressemblait ton travail au sein de la rédaction du monde début 2021? Est-ce que tu couvrais déjà l'Ukraine?
Well, I wanted to put my post three months ago, and the Ukraine was a pay in guerrill before 2014, we had 13 more. At this moment, it was at the end, apart from specialists, and I thought person or placing this pay for a card. In fact, it was a conflict gelé at the lest of pay, and performance the Ukrainians eux finished by.
The first reportage that I've had in Ukraine was in January 2021 for a bilan of the president Zelensky, this ancient actor comic who has been two years sans experience political. We are in his village native, at Kriviri. This year, the Ukrainians manifested by 0.20 degrees with the hausse descharges and the corruption. Certain of them have voted for him and estimated trahis. et rétrospectivement on se dit que c'était vraiment une autre ère.
Well, effectively, Sur l'essoufflement de la présidence Zelensky, and on se dit qu'il a coulé un peu d'eau sous les ponts depuis.
¶ L'escalade des tensions avant l'invasion
Well, but we have the day 2021 is really the month in puissance of tensions with the Russia, which massed their troops at the frontier. But these inquiry were balayed by the experts Ukrainians at the moment who did. It was eight months that the Russia says that, it alternates the show and froid, and people have that.
En revanche, toi, Faustine, tu sent un virage. Au début de l'année 2022, tu te rends attention sur place in January and in February, and you constate that the taux se resserrent autour des Ukrainians that you rencontre.
Oui, j'ai fait deux séries de reportages en fait, et c'est le moment où les États-Unis insistaient beaucoup sur l'imminence d'une attaque. And we wanted an mallage of denny and febrility. At this moment, the Ukrainians have redoubled the existence of their abris anti-bomb, which were irritated by the Soviet Union and the cart were made a journey.
Certainly commenced to preparation their valise d'urgence, to reflect on an end to cash d'attaque, and those commenced to entraîne at the guerrillas to be pretty defended. And so I assisted at Kiev the 5th February 2022, a court of defense of the defense territorial, in a park at their habitat, which is organized for the civil for approach the management of their arms and the soons of blessings. Donc dans le groupe, vous aviez des hommes et des femmes de tous âges, tous profils.
And it's interesting is that they entered with a fuzzy in boy. Just at the end, we have a girlfriend who had a bonus. They were fascinated. They imitated, they rigoled, because in fact their fuzzy. And I thought that scene was very troubling and very emblematic of this moment where we said if it was a show or not, or if it was for the right or the faux.
Et quatre jours avant le début de l'offensive, cette fois tu es à Kharkiv.
Oui, euh Kharkiv, donc qui est à une trentaine de kilomètres de la frontière russe. So just there we have troops mass in numbers. And we were on the place of the liberty, where we have an obus that is planted in plain. In fact, it's not an obus that is low, it's also an installation that was made to rapping to Ukrainians. que la guerre sévissait encore à quelques dizaines de kilomètres de là. And it minimises enormously. I have an amateur in Allemagne who must completely panic, I'll héberger.
And he threw on it's nice what the people are hysterical, it's ridiculous. At the moment, he marched and said, it is calm. And at the moment, it went to fold in larmes. And perceived that they were at the point in the denny and completely terrorized. And quatre jours plus tard, quand l'offensive sera déclenchée, Kharkiv sera pilonné, y compris cette place de la liberté.
¶ L'invasion russe et le retour en Ukraine
Toi Faustine, tu tu quittes le pays trois jours avant l'invasion.
Oui, et le lendemain, Air France suspense et vol. Alors à ce moment là au journal, on avait un groupe WhatsApp avec ceux qui suivaient les tensions croissantes autour de l'Ukraine. Le vingt trois au soir, on avait eu des échanges jusque très tard. Et le 24 février 2022, à 4h30 du matin, on a ce message de Benoît Vitkine, qui était alors notre correspondant à Moscou.
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Alors voilà, c'est la guerre, pile dans ton nouveau périmètre de travail, immédiatement Faustine, on l'imagine, tu plonges avec d'autres membres de la rédaction. dans un tunnel, une sorte d'apnée qui va concentrer toutes tes forces, toutes vos forces pendant des mois.
Oui, là il y a vraiment la machine, le monde qui se met en marche, on se répartit le travail, on va tous être afflux tendus pendant des mois. But the force of journalist is we could relay on place. And the direction five to have almost three journalists on the terrain, though our correspondent at Kiev, Thomas Distria.
This is a choix éditorial très fort, but on conscience that this conflict qui marquait le retour de la guerre in Europe était un bouleversement majeur qui aurait des répercussions immense.
Alors donc tu es parti just three jours avant le déclenchement de l'offensive, tu y retournes quand on Ukraine?
Alors moi j'y suis retournée en mai deux mille vingt deux, j'ai fait le voyage retour avec des réfugiés ukrainiens qui eux mêmes revenaient chez eux malgré la guerre. Et c'est à ce moment-là qu'ils découvrent les alertes antiaériennes qui vont devenir un son très familier pour eux.
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Et c'est grâce à toi qu'on peut les écouter et.
¶ Témoignages des crimes de guerre
We have to in memoir, Faustine, the atroce decouverte of Bucha, the village martyr where their habitants were de sang froid, sequestried, their fabric violent. You have covered a situation semblable.
Alors my Butcha, I was all two months after the retrait des Russes. Avec des sons étrange, I mean the cafe who lui-member was endommaged by the bombardment, who diffusait very forth the musique rock. which résonnait au milieu des immeubles vides et criblés d'impact d'obus. Tout était un peu dissonant. And we are in the rue Yablonska, which is emblematic of crimes of guerrilla committee by the Army Russian, where we have a civil gisant of soldiers abattu, and certainly the main attached.
And at the moment of the reportage, the room was its appearance normal, and we saw a couple who were a sole couch, a promenade anodine. And on discuting with them, he explains that they forced to survive their terror and reproduct. He called that during the occupation they were in their cave minuscule, by 4 degrees in the noir, to pray for not defending fou. And at a moment that dame was sorted and regarded by the fenêtre.
I was using the corps tendu on the chausset, his voice on face, abattu, and vélo. Elle me said You see, that you know, and person will ramp the cadavres. Also, If I saw, I'm not sure. aussi. Et mon corps restera là. C'est comme ça. Plus rien n'a de sens.
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Donc ces gens-là, ils avaient besoin de se forcer à ressortir.
Well, and at the moment of the reportage, we were in May and the printing. There were lila in the jardin, there were the arms that commented to reverse. And this fan accruched at her and said the nature remains, so we can sort of.
On a beaucoup parlé de Bucha, mais est-ce que tu as couvert d'autres découvertes de villages martyrs comme celui-là en Ukraine?
I was saying that Bucha was very médiatized, he had eclipsed other crimes of guys who were survived at the same moment. In the region of Tcherniv, the north of the Ukraine, not very long of the frontier Russe. At the moment it's an idea, and now we approach that the 350 people have served a bouclier to the Army Russe. He saw that they were enfermed and entered in sous of the college, in the noir for a month in conditions terrible. There were no, no medicine, no space for all, noir.
Pas de toilettes. The soir les soldats russes descendaient au sous-sol pour chercher des filles. And these people have succumbed, we have those who have been executed at the exterior. The cadavres were entreposed on a port of bois on the road at the line superposed where dormant the people. And in the decided, a fan that we had that had the murder the number of victims with a boot charbon. It would let a trace where people survived.
L'un des survivants aussi has been visited on plusieurs, the sous sol glacé, noir, and on a vu les inscriptions au mur. We have his name on the port, and just at the end, we had a descent. It's a child with eyes exorbitant with the girl. And for me at the moment, it was the figure of the épouvante and the terror that his habitants have vacuumed.
Et c'était important pour eux, un an après, de te faire visiter, de t'expliquer ce qui s'était passé.
We just because this history was a terror, it was obvious. I'm that fan who had agripped the branding mercy to interest, if we can see what's happening, never. And we enforce journalists we have at this moment an immense responsibility because it's an enormous gas of confiance that these people play in you, and we after your life is too.
¶ Impact de la guerre sur la société
You have to evoke certain of the renovations that you have in the pay.
Alors non, moi j'essaye d'aller dans les zones qui sont moins à risque. To document the fact that the guy traverse the society Ukrainian. We have reported who have the front. It's very difficult to accept, it's evidently extremely dangerous. Jusqu'à récemment, on pouvait quand même travailler à vingt ou trente kilomètres, mais aujourd'hui avec les drones russes qui pullulent dans la zone, c'est aussi devenu extrêmement dangereux.
I'd render homage to my confrère Anthony Lalican, photographer who had been ciblé par un drone russe y se montre, alors qu'il était loin du front at 20 kilometres, and that it was marked that it appartened à la presse 60 Gilet par balles.
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On comprend Faustine that you want a pay in guerra plutôt that the combats eux-mêmes, alors que le la guerre dure, le France install an an, two an, three an. Comment made you in application what you want to explicit? Come on, you can see the complexity of that society Ukrainian mise à l'épreuve of the guerrilla malgré the time.
The war, it's not really the front and the military, it's really all the society Ukrainian who is traversed by this conflict and is transformed. What interest is to mutations. at individual and collective, it's more spectacular, it's more long also, but it's even very revellating.
I'm not interested in the fact that the courts of history at the country have been modifiers in Ukraine after the invasion and how it has been an enjecture of security national face to the propaganda russe, which is an arm of guerrilla extremely puzzle, so we don't have in France.
And I discovered that the guy was apparently in the manuals for the first time at the moment, although we had this guy on the Donbass in eight years. And the history has explained that because the Russia had already had implications on the guy in the Donbass.
And that Kiev voulaient donner une chance aux accords de Minsk, that ne figure pas. But the changements that have been introduced in two mille have permit to make the lien between the guerrilla of two miles and the guerrilla of two mildew and to désigning clairement l'agresseur, the Russie.
¶ La résilience ukrainienne et l'espoir
If I demand, after six years of couverture of guerrilla, what's the most marked after two reportages on place? Super difficile, mais qu'est-ce que tu aimerais que les auditrices et les auditeurs de l'heure du monde retiennent de ce conflit?
What I took in Ukraine, it's really the determination, the tenacity and the solidarity of Ukrainians. That's front, malgré l'appuisement, which is real. There are marking that crimes of guard committee by the Russians. I did not have a reportage on the girl cassette. I'm sure that figuring in a bombardment at Mariupol, along to bombard the civil. And she said that her rief was to bring his wife to the hole without a aunt.
I'm sure also the soldier Ukrainian who has been captured, tortured, and violent by the Russians in prison, and who, after his liberation, has the truth to the people. He decided to pass in France, and he wanted the money of his among the family in the Tour Eiffel. And I sought also the director of the central of Tchernobyl, who had this site sensible during the duration of the occupation by the Army Russe.
Avec une pression colossale and evitar nuclear. And two Ukrainians have been victims of crimes of guerrilla, their views have been boulevers, but resistance d'une façon or d'une author. Et je crois que c'est ça la fameuse résilience ukrainienne.
The president Ukrainian Vladimir Zelensky has a image of hero in Occidental. But in fact, at the city, this mosaic that you described requests a public in resistance.
We Zelensky is really the visage of the resistance, but this force is. It's a society that is very inventive, very reactive. They force to rest unis, malware the existence of dissensions, which are normal, because it's a democracy, it's a democracy in guerra, but it's a democracy. It's a question of view or mort. He did very clearly, he did a guy existential. He says that if they defend not, they are éradiqués.
And malgré tout, in bout de quatre years of guerre total, malgré les bombardements quotidienners, malgré les crimes de guerre, malgré toutes horrers they have traversed, they tienn toujours. And with the people that I've renowned, it revient souvent, this is that they are touching here, that they continue to vivid.
They have their revival, they have support, they debate, they contest the decisions of the authorities, they are capable of reading. And they decided to have a life normal in the middle of the chaos. Et ça, c'est très important pour eux parce que c'est une façon de dire que la Russie n'a pas gagné.
Faustine, on va se dire au revoir sur une musique.
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c'est des acteurs
Merci. et partage pour cet épisode, pas comme les autres. A très bientôt.
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And those articles of Faustine Vincent on the Ukraine and his region, those other journalists of the world who cover the conflict, and the live that's cessed. site le monde.fr l'heure du monde c'est votre
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fidélité et à très vite.
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