All right, welcome everyone. It's very very very special episode. I'm doctor Scott.
And I'm doctor Shiloh.
And this is La Not So Confidential, the Forensic Psychology and True Crime podcast.
Each episode we explore the intersection of psychology, the criminal justice system, and entertainment.
And today is a very special episode, not like an after school special, but today is our two hundredth episode celebration. And like slack jawed, wide eyed, what the hell, how did we do this? This is crazy? Right?
Yes, I'm laughing because Scott didn't get the link for this. I have wires coming out of my headphones because after nearly eight frickin' years, I didn't charge my headphones.
Just you know, it's just our regular stuff. The way we go down, this is the way we were all.
This is us. Yeah, sure, Oh my gosh, this is so wild to reflect on this. Thanks guys for being here for an impromptu two hundredth episode. Real quick, to just get this out of the way, let's do our last episode recap. So in our last episode, we chatted with the incredible women behind Rebel Tours out of London, and I had attended there. Jack the Ripper Tour called what about the women last year when we went to Crime Con and so we just knew we had to
have them on Behind the Couch. We discussed their empathetic and feminist approach to the historical events within the realm of you know, also talking about ethical true crime tourism and history. So what we did, because this is our two hundredth, we ended up labeling that episode of bonus, just to make the numbers work. But moving forward are Behind the Couch episodes for the year, for the month
will be regular numbered episodes. So I just wanted to let you guys know what to expect because here we told you what we're going to do and then it was like bonus. But we had to figure out something to make this the two hundredth.
Yeah, it is a milestone on many levels for us, so many things to talk about. I mean, it's an achievement for anybody that's in content creation, you know, who's brave enough to try and you know, put your stuff out there and see how the world reacts and if you have a voice. And I don't think we had the idea that we'd be around this long and doing as much as we have. It kind of crept up on us. Really it's weird.
I mean I can think back to that first recording in your apartment, and I think on our intan we just like took a selfie afterwards and we were like,
we think we just recorded our first episode. I don't know if I had any idea of like what the hell this would be, and it's been pleasantly surprising and wonderful, and we want to do like just start off with a little bit of a retrospective, a little look back, and we can't possibly list everything that these last seven plus years have brought us and brought you, but we thought it would be kind of fun to start off
by looking backwards. We do have some guests that are going to then pop in in about twenty five minutes or so, and then we're going to answer some questions, some Q and a read some feedback from you guys that you told us favorite episodes, favorite moments, things like that, and if you want to add those in the chat, we will do our best to monitor that as well. If you have something that you want to just.
Add live absolutely, I want to do something that I haven't really talked about much before. For getting started with this, there was such certainly true crime content has winnowed down over the last few years, and it's really kind of amazing that we've managed to stay afloat. I mean, we're very much a niche podcast. We get very academic at times. We want people to be educated and we want you to know about what's going on and enjoy it, right, But we had a pretty small listener base really for
probably the first six months. And then a dear friend of mine from college that I was able to reconnect with over Facebook over the last decade or so who is a true crime fan, mentioned us on a Reddit discussion board, and that's when we blew up to the extent that we did, like literally within a couple of weeks, like all of our episodes were just being listened to
and listen to and listen to. So Noel, thank you so much for that, because you were the one that just happened to drop it in a discussion and that comment didn't get banned, I guess, and it led to this. So yeah, this is really exciting that in seven and a half years, here we are.
You know, blew up is relative, and we know that blew up for us, you know, just you know, it was just kind of a push to get us on the radar of other people that decided to stick around because they liked our stuff. So yeah, definitely an interesting moment to look back on too. So how should we do this? Just kind of talk year by year?
Yeah, let's let's talk about it. Let's start off in twenty seventeen, which, like I can't believe, Oh my god, it's got long ago. Now can we just.
Go back the good old days? Oh boy, we knew anything.
The good old days right right, and the salad days. We started in October because we recorded our first episode on September twenty third, twenty seventeen, like you were saying, in my old apartment, and we entered you our first guest in twenty seventeen. Very close to that first episode, we were over at our friend Justin NIE's apartment, which was good. We didn't know what we're doing. How do
we interview somebody? We had no equipment. We found this wonderful young filmmaker and audio specialist, great, great guy, and he set us up with Jen Haley, a really brilliantly talented writer who worked on mind Hunter and has done you know, many other things and including writing an award winning play that everybody should still read to this day.
Yes, yeah, I mean I don't know if people remember like that first year, like not calendar year, but first year. I mean, we have had four guests on the show two hundred episodes, right, not including the behind the couch stuff, but on the main episodes, we've had four guests, and Jen was our very first one when we were still I think, trying to figure out what the heck are
we doing here? And you had made the connection through our friend Deb who was in this writing group with Jash, and we were like, oh my god, Mine Hunter is the best thing ever. Of course our audience would want to hear from her. So that's how that just kind of popped up, and we interviewed you interviewed a few other folks.
Including Jim. Your connection with Jim Fitzgerald.
Yeah, yeah, I retired FBI Jim Fitzgerald, and then had Al our friend on to talk about the Exorcist when we got into the you know, kind of our first meaty entertainment episode, a little cropsover episode, and then Harry when we talked about negotiations. So I realized pretty early like I did not love doing interviewing. In those early days, I felt very unskilled at it, and I was like, I don't love this. I absolutely love like our casual
behind the couch situations. That's super fun. I don't know, maybe I just took the pressure off myself at that point.
Yeah, it seems like it, because I don't. I don't think that it's any different, and I think those they do come off as casual conversations, but you know, we approach them like interviews because we want to get the information out of these wonderful experts and individuals who you know, give their time to us. And then you know, we moved on to twenty eighteen. We recorded our first crossover
episode with Hollyweird Paranormal, which was great. I went to a writing event with my friend David, who invented me. His daughter invited me and his daughter couldn't go, and it was like this really great publisher's award ceremony in Beverly Hills, and Karen and Georgia were there from my favorite Murder and I just thought, what the hell, I'm
going to go introduce myself to them. So I went and introduced myself to them, and they were absolutely lovely and then there was just like this weird moment that is totally not them because they're awesome. But I thought that they were leaving to walk to their cars and it was like Hollywood Boulevard. No, not Hollywood, it was No, it was in hills. But I was like, oh, do
you want us to walk you to your cars? And they'll look on their faces completely changed, like that says he's a forensic psychologist, he's probably a killer whatever, right, But they were really lovely to us, and that was really cool to have kind of a starry moment with these two you know icons in the true crime field. Oh my god.
Yeah, especially twenty eighteen, like talk about the height. I was so jealous of that. That was such a cool moment. And then here we are, like not even doing this for a year and Scott gets invited to be the first guest on the Ron Burgundy podcast. Now I shall say that was handed off to us by another forensic psychologist, Paula Bruce. Wonderful, Yeah, amazing, and was like, oh, I'm out of town and because she's in high demand everywhere and was like here you can have this thing.
Now, you know what, doctor, let me tell you something to about doctor Bruce is the lady knows how to take a vacation too, because if you see her social media, like and she works her ass off, she has a thriving business. But like, I'll see her taking a vacation. I need to take a vacation. That's like I want to be like doctor Bruce.
Yeah, no kidding, But that was such a treat Scott. They were only going to have one forensic psychologist on and I was like, oh my god, you do it like I can't. I'm terrified. That is like to sit across the table from Will Ferrell, I don't know. I wouldn't be able to think. But they allowed me to be in the sound room while Scott was doing his thing, and it was the best experience.
It was.
It like though, because he's in characters Ron Burgundy's dressed up.
But he was not in he was not in address. But like beforehand, meeting him was just great. I mean, he was like absolutely kind. The entire production staff is like, oh my god, I want to work here. They just all seem so happy. And I told them going in, like they were asking me questions about like what the show entailed, and I said, look if You're expecting me to be able to not giggle. I'm like, forget it. You need to find somebody else because I think he's
a genius and I'm going to fall apart. But it was great fun. We really appreciated that opportunity. Yeah. That was also when we started recording in a police interrogation room that I had access to. Yeah, that was the year that we did that, because the sound quality was so much better than my apartment and because it has all these like kind of sound proofing.
Yeah, and we started to just do it after work, which were very long days. I'm like, how the heck did we do that after working full days at work? But I also wasn't having to drive to your apartment and then drive home, so it was better. But yeah, that was very nice for mister Lieutenant Bixler to allow us to do that.
Yeah, that was a very kind Yeah.
And then from there, like I feel like it just was like flying by the seat of our pants really because twenty nineteen then brought our first festival, true crime podcast Festival in Chicago, And the wonderful thing about Laney's Festival is that they don't care how small of a podcast you are. It's like, you have a table, you can be here, you can be included, you don't have to have this giant following. And this is going to sound so cheesy, it ended up being life changing in
a way. One for the podcast, but also the friends that we made that are just absolute staples in our life right now.
Well, and also, let me qualify something that you said is like, yes, Laney and all of her team are so great and they don't care about what you're following is, but they do care about quality. So the idea that we were considered to be in that level of quality just really meant a lot to us and continues to this day.
Yeah, we'll save it for a couple of our guests, but this was the first time we met some people, like I said, that became really important people in our lives, and what a beautiful thing to look back on that, you know, we crossed paths in this way. But it was also our first presentation. I mean, they took a chance on us talking to their audience with Nick and Jessa and how people that were.
You know, two wonderful people that we had had one conversation with, like one real conversation we had texted chatted email, but then one phone conversation, we meet him at the bar the night before, and then the next day it was like I felt like we had been doing presentations with them for years. The flow was so good, and we've got commentary on like how long have you known each other?
And like literally just so Nick and Jessa the Getting Off podcast if you guys were listeners, if you remember it, they're defense attorneys from the Midwest at the time. I think one or both of them has moved, but yeah, their podcast was like the lawyer version of us, the defense attorney version of us. Really, so it was an awesome match. That was when we did our Mary Kayla Turner okay, and Scott was terrified that Mary kay La Turno's mom was.
In the audience, and paranoia came through. That was so strange because this woman was brought in by a caregiver. She was in a wheelchair, and I just got this wild thought of like, oh my god, what if they like this is an angry relative or something, But they weren't.
And that and also we had such an incredibly receptive audience that stayed through the lunch break because there were so many questions they had so that was another sort of like kind of watershed moment I believe for us as content creators to realize, oh wow, there are people that really respond to this type of quality, this type of discussion and really dissecting the information that was That was a great experience.
And we got to share a table with Doctor Amy, Women in Crime Direct Appeal, and also another friend in the Champagne Girls. We got to meet them. They're so great Death by Champagne, which we still chat on social media. So got yeah, we did that. We came home, we were invited to do Pasadena a litfest, so Frank Girardo,
author reached out to us. We had covered his book on one of our episodes on Arson in Pyromania, which we just talked about in our shrink crap and got to do that panel and met Steve Hodell, We met Carrie Martin, and that was also just something that was I don't know, kind of a big moment to be asked to do that and talk about true crime podcasting, but also meeting those folks was pretty awesome.
Again, just more connections that you would you know, how would you ever encounter these people, you know, to share this kind of knowledge is kind of information. It's pretty great.
Yeah. And then I think that same year and Rebecca. We'll have to laugh about this with Rebecca, but we always talk about how like we met a true my podcast festival and literally within months we had a live show planned in Silver Lake here in LA and she was staying at my house and we were like, this goes against like every true crime thing that we know. I barely know, you come stay at my house, but obviously it worked out fine. Was that the year we
did our first meet up at Halloween Hohrn Nights. I yes, CityWalk as well. Very cool. Yeah, twenty nineteen was like a whirlwind for sure for the show.
Yeah. Then that was when you also came up with the really great idea of dabbling in vintage crimes. I mean we had kind of talked about it, but then
you fleshed it out more. And I think that was also the year that Dan, my husband, for either of my birthday or for Christmas or something, gave me like this incredible book published in the nineteen fifties, all about crimes from nineteen ten up into the fifties, and each chapter was a different one, and we literally went through that book you know, and use them as like the foundation for additional research for these different crimes.
Do you remember the name of that book? I literally my colleague was asking me today what it was. We were at the LAPD Museum today and he's like, what's that book that you and doctor Scott pulled some maircases from.
It's on the coffee table. I'll send you a picture of it.
Ye that okay, perfect, one of our many resources which we have a question in our Q and A about the resources we use, which could be a whole episode in and of itself, exactly. Yeah, okay, So we have about ten minutes probably till we're expecting our first guest, So I just want to kind of talk about like post twenty nineteen and into the year of twenty twenty. Gosh, we almost did another podcast. You guys don't know this, but we were.
Yeah.
I think it's probably it's probably nice to talk about it now.
Yeah, I mean, twenty twenty killed it, so you can. You know, it's it's been a while. It's been you know, going on five years now. But essentially we got approached by a huge major production company to do this really cool idea. I mean, Scott and I have had a lot of things thrown at us as other ideas to do in terms of like other shows or adapting this into a television show, and honestly, not much felt interesting or great. And yeah, tell them what the concept was of this.
And we actually recorded up here, and let me not I don't definitely don't want to bury the connection there. My really dear friend Michelle Zeitlin, that I was a performer with and a co choreographer with years and years and years ago, is just a dynamo of a producer and manager here in Hollywood, and she had listened to the show and she came to our live event with Rebecca Yes, and she just said, like, I'm going to keep my ear out, you know, if anything pops up,
is it okay if I pitch you guys. So she made a connection with our other friend Serice, who is a producer on the New Unsolved Mysteries which had started around that time, and they got us a meeting at NBC, which was really pushing a podcast channel at that time. And you know, we didn't come up with the final idea.
We just kind of pitched ourselves and like what we had to offer, and the executive actually was really helpful and she really helped us shape the idea and it was, without going into too much, it was a I thought it was like a really great idea because it was kind of engaging audience interaction where it's two forensic psychologists that are basically a cross between interviewing, evaluating, and interrogating
a killer, a serial killer. And you know, we had sound effects in it, as if you're in a room, you're hearing us and we're asking questions, but we're also giving sort of explication of what's going on or exposition. And then we also use like a really wonderful young man as a voiceover artist to record some of the killer's actual dialogue from interviews. And it was all going to be like who am I? It's basically who who is the killer?
Or name the killer and the audience has to decide who it is that we're talking to based on this interview.
Yeah.
Yeah, And unfortunately COVID shut everything down, like it just absolute. There was a big shake up at NBC. There was restructuring, which I tried my best to prepare everybody for, like, go, this is Hollywood, this is the way things go. Is like don't get too attached to any of your projects because they can just disappear. Just you keep moving, you keep swimming, you keep grinding, and you have another idea in your back pocket. So other opportunities stand up for us.
Yeah, if we had done two podcasts.
Well, that would have given us a whole stat too, like you know, we yeah, that's true. Weird, the amount of work have been a lot less, I think.
Yeah, then we moved into you know, the days of COVID, which obviously perpetuated a lot of live streaming and reaching our audience that way, and the good old get vocal days. Our first guest will be able to tell us about that, because I think they kind of got us into it. But I remember, but the very first or second episode was the night of the civil unrest after George Floyd's death, and it was such a surreal moment to kind of be just like in it and living it with our
audience live. It was really interesting. But I mean, you know, the rest of that year, we got freaking knee deep into QAnon. Just what a banana's time.
Yeah, I mean, we we just really plumbed me moving on from then as our you know, I think there wasn't a lot of time for socialization or wasn't opportunity during COVID, So we hunkered down and we started recording remotely, you know, both in our different locations. So we did I thought, what was like a real We got a lot of feedback on our episode about Stolen Valor, I mean, just really opened our eyes to the phenomenon. Overprotected is another one that really touched a nerve with a lot
of people. It was about the quote unquote conservatorship or guardianship about the Britney Spears case, and that was something that was going on, which is not something we really always do. We don't necessarily always talk about things that are happening in the moment because we're both still so tied into our attachment or our connection with law enforcement
and public services. Which is kind of wild, right that I did that so long ago because I had just gotten into it, and now the transition to my new position for the agency I work for is all about conservatorships, so that was wow.
We also did our first walking tour for Patreon members in downtown Los Angeles with Chris from LA in a day, which was so much fun. That was really cool and one of two that we did. We had another meet up at Halloween Horn Nights. I think that's the year we lost Sukie on our ride, so we almost lost the Patreon mark.
We lost her on the Harry Potter ride and like, yeah, she was in the car next to us, and then suddenly it's like, where's Sookie.
I mean, disappeared and reappeared.
Thanks Founder, We did find her, yes, But then we really went through also with the idea that you came up with of alternating our vintage La Crime so that we could go back and forth and offer you know, a real like things that were more current versus things that were much farther in the past.
Yeah, and then I mean, I don't know how we did this, but twenty twenty two we hit our one hundredth episode that year, which was just like a very serious topic. We covered the epic topic of school shootings, which I stand by is one of I think my favorite episodes in the sense of like the timing and the research that was coming out and the information that we finally knew was just it just it stands out
for me is one of our best episodes. But we also not in this order probably, but Pacific Northwest Festival, which has not happened again, it might happen again in the future, hands down one of our favorites. We presented at the California Hostage Negotiators Conference. We did our in cell presentation to about five hundred negotiators. I went to Savannah Crime Expo, got to sit next to these knuckleheads, Tim and Lance. We had tables together. We had a
very fun time laughing at everything. We did True Crime Podcast Festival in Dallas that year, which was always a blast, and then we had a table the one and only time we've had a table at Crime con here in the US in Vegas Post Covid was also just a wild experience.
Yeah.
Another walking tour as well with our favorite tour guide down in downtown. And then we had a great article from Podcast Magazine that's on what we do. It's pretty great.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And since then, I mean twenty twenty three, we did our own live show at Heritage Square Museum with two of our besties, Tammy and Bryce, a Holywood paranormal and of course Dan and Greg from La Meekly and broke down one case from a crime historical and paranormal lens I thought worked really well. It was sold out. It was a blast. It was a lot of work and a lot of work that we did ourselves, but totally worth it.
Yeah.
It was a lot of like Scramble and Jerry Rig things. I mean it was, but it was also in like a wonderful museum setting in a gorgeous falling apart church that hopefully people are donating money to this wonderful museum so they can restore it. It's pretty cool.
We also did crime Con UK for the first time in twenty twenty three and can't forget Parapod Festival.
That was wild.
Oh man, this Scott and I with our doctorate's diagnosing everyone at the Parapod Fest was good times, good times, and did a couple of things last year too.
Yeah, we went to crime Con UK again for another wonderful opportunity to present again probably I mean up there is the top three places we would go and present again really just because it's such a specialized audience. And
then had a wonderful follow up to that. I mean, god that we were so busy last fall because we went right from crime Con UK into the Berkshire's Podcast Festival with Josh Hallmark, which was like really well organized, like there is just like they he and his staff just outdid themselves for the quality and organization of that. You know. It was a one day event with a couple of capping things on either side, a lot of fun.
Yeah, for sure, and you guys will be very proud of us. We have not one commitment this year to anything, well except for something we're gonna host, but we'll tell you about that later. But we haven't committed to any festivals. We're going to see what we feel like we got some man, I have a lot of travel planned already. We have a friend getting married. I have a family member getting married already. Some travel in the works, so
we will see what pops up. But speaking of popping up, let's see if our first guest is ready.
Oh my god, it's our dad.
It's the man that.
Made us daddy. I love not in a weird way.
Relations Thank you.
How is it going? It's going well? Here we are. Do you remember the first time we met?
I do, yes, How could I forget?
I was like, oh my god, that's that crawl space guy with the blazer in the satchel.
I can't sylenty you guys, because I was listening to you guys on the way I think to Chicago that yeah, for that fest, and yeah, I was I was really excited to meet you guys. So yeah, I think you were the first people that I went right over to coming down for that festival.
So at that time, what head so twenty seven, I'm sorry, twenty nineteen, like kind of where was crawl Space at that time? Like what were you and Lancey Grace doing with it? Like and what was your vision? Yeah, I don't know.
A good question. I don't know.
We started podcasting in true crime doing Missing Moramari in twenty fifteen, and that led to a docu series on the disappearance of Moramuri that ran on Oxygen in twenty seventeen. So we were working on that case mostly through those first few years, and then we launched cross Space in twenty seventeen and started kind of ranching out a little bit more cases just other kinds of interests as well.
So yeah, and I think we.
Were right around the time where we were like, well, let's like we're meeting so many fun people that we really like, and you know, we're sort of like accidentally networking, like we really didn't intentionally do that. It was just we like people and we liked their show, and we'd talk to people at festivals like you guys, and it's like, let's kind of band together a little bit, try to slay this dragon together. Because podcasting is a crazy industry.
As you guys done, it isn't it.
Yeah, there's so many personalities, and like I was saying earlier, you know a lot of shows have come and gone. It doesn't you know, just because something's gone after just a couple of seasons doesn't mean that it's not super high quality. But I do think that it says something about your longevity and the way you guys continue to create and evolve over a decade. That's wild. It's just wild.
Well, I'm impressed with you guys, and you guys are almost a decade yourselves.
And we're getting there. Yeah, Scott and I are. I don't know, like we've said, like, we cannot do this longer than ten years. We don't know what it looks like, but we're not doing this longer than tenures, So maybe the countdown?
Why not?
What's what's the harm?
I was going to say, We laugh about the fact that we'll never run out of ideas. I mean, there's just like there's you know, there's something. Every time we turn around there's another, like here's a bizarre sub sub subcategory of a mental health issue that is completely related to this crime. Let's get on it, you know.
Yeah, yeah, it's always news that you guys can add your insight to.
Well, and I wouldn't mind if we back away from this at some point. Well we will, but when we do, I'm sure you would. But we have built, like with yourself, such a network. Sometimes we feel like, is there a podcast that has not had us speak to something in terms of like forensic psychology and psychological aspects of crime, But yeah, of course there is. But we would like we will always be available for all of our friends and anyone who wants us on to give our two cents.
Obviously that would be the sweet spot where we don't have to do any real work. We'll just guest on everyone else else's shows. But yeah, who knows, who knows what that will look like. But I mean, you're so kind to approach us and ask us to be part of the network that we were like, oh my god, this is this feels like a natural next step for us, and it really like the shows that you curated felt like family and it was just a perfect fit for us.
So thank you so much to you and Lance for thinking of us in that way, bringing us in.
Well, thank you guys. Yeah, you guys and such.
I don't know, you're great people, great friends, and really your show adds credibility to the network and you know whatever we were were really trying to build, you know, with with all this stuff.
Yeah, well, what do you say is what has contributed to how have you and Lance done it? I mean, like I know that there's probably been a lot of dark Knights of the soul and conversations, but if you looking back over a decade, you know what, what is the most important thing about longevity? What's the secret.
Ride that wave?
I mean, I don't know, like it's is really like seesaw or like turbulent ocean kind of industry right now still and if you're trying to do it full time, it is really like crazy in that way. So I think staying together, like you know, like your team, you know, sticking sticking together trust and you know, like as you know, we've grown a part. As I guess people a little bit as I've grown a family in the past decade, you know, and we live you know, a ninety minute
drive or something away. But we still have the same interests and still have the same chemistry and podcasting and things like that, even if we don't see each other all that often anymore.
Yeah, I mean, you're in the same boat as us. We are constantly saying, thank God we're doing this with someone else, you know, like who the people that do podcasts alone. I get the perks to that, but man to for the role coaster moments for you know, the waves. It's really nice to have someone to ride that with. And I'm glad you and Lance have had each other, you know, for all of that. And it's it's special to be able to do something like this with your
best friend. I mean what I tell that to Scott all the time, Like, how many people get to have a creative project like this for years where you know, sometimes he and I are talking to each other more than we're talking to our spouses because the other hours of the week, you know, we're at work or whatever. So it is it's it's incredibly special and what an interesting medium to kind of give us this opportunity.
There's been so many times when we've been recording and she's like, oh my god, I think I'm starving my kid. I have to go feed my child, or you're going to call DCFS on me.
I have to go be a mom.
I forget damn it.
But we we always we also joke like about, you know, our years long text thread and I'm also like thinking back to you me, Scott and Lance have some really good text threads too over the years.
Yeah, more the time.
So we've texted you and we've been like, hey, guys, can we schedule a call with you? Like we have this concern and you're always so lovely. We're like, are we overreacting? Are we being stupid that we're going to bring this up? And you guys are always just like so sweet and gracious to anything these crazy colleges have to say.
I have to say also, just like, I mean, it's funny because like there's so much that what our listeners are listening to right now is us not being able to talk about something that's really really huge. And when Shiloh and I were trying to figure out and navigate our way through it, we reached out to you both, and you were so great, you know, you were just
so great. Like we got off the call after all of us vent and sharing our frustrations and realizing that we're all on the same page, and it was just such a relief. And then, oh my god, this is the thing that didn't What you didn't have is you didn't see my narcissistic extension rage, which means I was angry, like I had been not treated well. But when I realized how badly you guys had been treated, I was like, I think I'm going to lose my license because I'm
probably going to go on a spree right now. I'm so angry that this happened to two people that we admire and care about so much. But thank you for being a great landing space for us. We just really appreciate it.
Yeah, well, thank you guys for over the years, for all your insight and your entertainment and friendship. And yeah, we got to have you guys back on our show now that it's back up and running.
For sure. So before you go, what are you and Lance up to these days? You can just kind of catch our audience up to speak.
You know what, there's been more twists and turns in the past few months.
It's it's it's even. It might be crazier than stop.
Okay, we need to schedule.
We really do. It's wild. Okay, we're back to.
Crawl space and missing or just space right now.
Crawl space and missing. Yeah, crawl space was doing a thing where we were airing other anyway, we'll do that on the call. Yeah and missing, Yeah, we're doing those regularly.
Awesome.
Thank you for making time regulations so much. All right, take care bye, all right, who do we have next? Oh my god, stop it.
Oh gollys, I miss you, not me getting emotional. Stop that was a little nostalgic ry. I just got like I just remembered things i'd forgotten. I'm like, rest in peace to all the projects that I was gonna do.
In twenty twenty, right, I mean, you're what a ride.
But like I just this has been. It's been really fun hearing you guys reminisce and it's so good to see your faces.
Oh so good to see you too, and our three faces and my short hair and let me switch over. Oh my god, that's twenty nineteen, you guys.
Twenty nineteen.
Right where we met right, yes, yeah, yeah, oh no.
That's that's True Crime Podcast festival, right.
That's that's Chicago, Chicago.
Yeah yeah, you.
Hair that short. I don't remember your hair being me.
It's so huge, chopped it like a year after I started my new job.
And it's funny because now my hair is like that, it's in a ponytail right now, and your hair is a long like mine.
But my hair's like pretty short right now. Oh my gosh, So I my first impression, you know. Here we were going like on year two of our show with that festival, and I remember Rebecca of course, like now that I know Rebecca like in full mode of having all of her branding and all of her stuff that had not even started yet. Here's my postcard, here's my sticker, here's my this. I was like, this girl is put together, like I don't even know. Try and you know, I
can tell you make it, I know. And then we just like went out to dinner that night. We had the loveliest dinner. We were all so freaking exhausted, I know, but a really good time. It was. It really what what what are you up to these days? Lady?
Man?
I mean a ton.
It's weird, like I feel like I'm actually really in real time catching you up because through we don't cross paths as much, I know, as we once didn't.
I I'm not I don't.
Love that, but I'm you know, so I guess a lot of people through that would know both of us would probably connect me to dialogue, which I hung up as always what I say, which is a weird way to I don't know which I put on hiatus that never reopened, I guess.
In twenty twenty two.
Yeah, so that's already like just I mean the end of twenty twenty two, so it's been gone for two years. But I didn't leave podcasting, but I did take a little break from like all the concentrated true crime stuff. I think I actually really didn't know that I needed that,
so and you know, so good to see Tim. Tim was talking about how hard it is to make a living full time podcasting, So you know, I've been figuring out my work situation and I've really come to love producing other people's podcasts.
And it's just.
Been this cool development of learning, like something else i'm good at and something else I enjoy. It's a different skill set and I still love hosting, and I do host a couple shows still, but mainly what I'm doing is producing shows for clients. So there's budgets and there's money and you know, always nice.
Can you talk a little bit about that because I know that, I actually know that several of our listeners who have reached out have asked us about, well, who's your producer? Like me and Shiloh.
Yeah, you're looking at him.
You're listening to the eleven AM or eleven people. Yeah, so what tell us a little bit about what that this role is for you?
Yeah, so I'm sure you guys both know. I mean, my technical skills with editing and podcasting are pretty minimal, and like you know, I know just enough to either get by or be dangerous depending on who you ask. But a producer, you know, it depends on the project. And I think that's a subjective term, but for me, I think it's like a pot It's like a project manager for a podcast. So because Dialogue, I booked all those guests. That's actually a skill a lot of people
I didn't realize was such a helpful skill. So booking guests, pre screening them and kind of setting everything up, especially if they're somewhat high profile or you know, a big get Like that's a big part of what I do is curating who I think will be great guests for a certain story that's being told, and then kind of following through on that story mapping. You know, it depends if it's like a nonfiction or fiction project. I've done
entrepreneurial podcasts, like boring podcasts, interesting podcasts. I've done all kinds of podcasts, and it's just kind of figuring out what's the story they're trying to tell and helping them bring all the pieces together, so guests, editors a team, right, and helping the branding because I have that marketing background, so I get to speak into that, which is really fun. Yeah, so that's that's what I do. I kind of you wear a lot of hats and you kind of assemble.
The team needed.
It's like if you you.
And Shiloh broke down all the roles you play, like, yeah, there's probably ten, you know, if you were actually going to like divvy up the responsibilities. It's it's figuring all that out and delegating and overseeing. I get to be bossy, which I realized I really like. So you know.
Yeah, yeah, another skill your muted Scott.
If you I thank you, yeah, and get paid for it being bossy and get paid for it.
Like it's actually my job to be bossy. And I hadn't realized how much I enjoy telling men what to do. That's cool.
Yeah, do it for as long as you're allowed to keep doing it. I mean, yeah, exactly. So what so when shows are you currently hosting right now?
Sure?
So, I'm still co hosting Criminality with the wonderful Melissa of Moms and Mysteries and Criminality. We do. We're disdown to like the first Fridays of every month. We both are are quite booked and busy, but we are, like you guys, just so close and can't imagine giving it up all the way. So we've just are like, we're doing this for us and our audience, and like we just it's the pure love of creating that show together, so that every first Friday we're still putting out new episodes.
And then I created and launched a show in the fall, Cult Thank you for your interest, which has nothing to do with true crime but has to do with professional rejection, and that's coming back in March with the season two and I co host that. It's been amazing and cathartic and really helpful to a lot of people. So I'm very proud of that show.
So those are the Tom hosting.
And then I just had a show launch this week that is crime and I think your audience would super duper love called Devil and the Deep Blue Sea. And it's about the Satanic Panic era in America in the nineteen eighties and kind of it deals with West Memphis.
Three, it deals with Martin Preschool.
McMartin preschool, and it's even going to go back in time to kind of where this all came from and how it kind of formed politics and the church. And it's really interesting. And so that episode, episode one just dropped Monday. So Devil in the Deep Blue Sea.
Okay, so that's when you're producing.
Yeah, okay, you'll hear me on the trigger warning at the top.
Perfect. Oh good, because we all love to hear your voice for sure. Maybe that'll inspire A Scott to finally do our McMartin more would be pretty different the same. Yeah, that's a that's a very biggy.
But there's so much more information about that that has come out over the years from the children. You know, the children are all now adults and they're almost forty yeah, right, lots of lots of differing perspectives and one voice that was completely muffled the entire time, Like was they refused to let him speak because he he knew it was all fake.
Because it went against the narrative.
That narrative, Yeah, convenient, and that was kind of local to you guys, right, that was an LA story that was like a not long beach Manhattan beach or something. Yes, yeah, yeah, that's a big one. I would be excited if you guys covered that because there's a lot there about it.
But yeah, well, I mean I don't even want to attempt to try and talk about what you have meant to us for this time one because I don't want to like break down crying, and I'm so happy I'm going to get to see you at least we have something on the books this year. Were able to see each other way.
Once, I know, but maybe before that to us.
I hope so. But obviously a big part of what we feel like is our journey. I mean that picture kind of encompasses it. We're so cute and young, look at.
That I know some fresh and I know we are not jaded there, that those are the faces of unjaded podcasters.
But also for real, seriously, no idea. I mean, obviously there's just been like life has happened, but just all the weird podcast shit too that we have experienced together has been a whole book in and of itself. And yeah, there will be a tell all someday we can like at least feel it, I know. But we love you so much. Thank you, love you guys so much.
You're like my favorite takeaway from ever starting podcasting and I don't say it enough. And I miss you guys so much. Thank you for inviting me here. Congratulations on all your success. You deserve everything and more and I love you so much.
I love you too.
All right, Oh this is oh geez crying John Lorden.
Hi, Hello, Look at that handsome man. Do you see me?
Okay?
Yeah, okay, yeah on my end, I look like I'm Claymation or AI or something like I'm all.
You are.
The video is a little bit choppy, but the audio is great.
Oh yeah, no, it might do its thing in a second. Here. So Hi John, Hi, guys, how you been.
Good?
We've been good working obviously here we are. I mean, I know, two hundred episodes is like nothing to some other show. Not nothing, but.
You know something two hundred or something that's a lot of work, a lot of dedication, coming back to it time and time again. And you know, I have the luxury of this is the only thing I do.
So you know, you guys, says the man who runs half of the shows on YouTube. Two hundred is big. Okay, I'll take it.
Yeah, But no, you guys are in the field helping people in real life. And that was part of the change that I welcomed in terms of seeing you guys, and that I really appreciated was we're finally having field experts move into this space.
And share their knowledge, and that was such an.
Important change for podcasts for true crime, and unfortunately, I think we've kind of moved away from that.
A little bit. Again, it's like an arm wrestling match, you know.
Yeah, it's been interesting to see that because I think you're right, like kind of when Scott and I had this idea to do it, obviously true crime was nothing new, and that was our consideration, like, okay, like everyone is it too saturated? But what can we add? And we didn't think anyone was lending a voice in our area. But then yeah, you kind of had this wave of professionals mostly retired. Is it not insane like we are,
but yeah, retired folks lending their voices. And I thought that was a big shift for true crime, like kind of that was happening around the time of like letting victims voices lead as well, which was really interesting to see.
Are you guys aware of advocacy con at all?
Yes, yes, okay.
Okay, yeah, I'll be joining that. It's their first year ever, and it's kind of aimed for that figuring out the part of true crime that could be helpful to people and trying to get those families together with the right resources.
So yeah, yeah, instead of getting lost in the you know, entertainment piece of it.
Yeah, lost and re traumatization of you know, people clamoring, you know, please be on my show, please let me interview you this you know, poor family or survivor that has just been through so much. Absolutely, I love that that's being done.
Yeah, And it's weird because sometimes you'll have a family that goes to a particular creator and you know, pours their heart out and they don't know the difference between in La Not So Confidential or some other type of show, and they might hit an audience of a few hundred people, and then you know that story doesn't get picked up because other people are looking at it and they're like, oh, they've been on that podcast. You know, I'm going to sit on it for a while.
Yeah.
So yeah, it's always a tough dance on that well.
And speaking of tough dances, one of the things that you know, we've never talked about publicly, that I know, Scott and I are most proud of is the collaboration that the three of us did behind the scenes where you approached us and said, hey, this is heavy stuff that we talk about and that we research and that we do. I really think there's a need to support other true crime content creators in a way that hasn't
been done before. And essentially we brainstormed and I think did it the right way in which we ended up creating a support group for content creators that met once a month. And I can't think of, you know, many other things that I've done in content creation that has felt as directly like giving back and doing something really important. It was just like at a different level that I
think other people hadn't thought about before. And here Scott and I are saturated in vicarious trauma all the time from our jobs and learn in grad school and intern like how to take care of yourself. But I mean it just I mean, can you add a little bit too, What was in your thinking, what you were seeing at the time when you kind of approached us about that?
Yeah? Absolutely.
I mean when I came in on YouTube, there was a bunch of other creators that were peers of mine, one in particular, Kayleie Elise, who inspired me, and all of a sudden, she started facing a lot of personal life trauma that compounded with the subject.
Matter took her out of the game.
Yeah, she was a brilliant voice, but unfortunately that voice disappeared. There's so many more cases that could have been helped if she would have been able to stay around. And she wasn't the only one. I saw a pretty typical churn of you get into this, you could do it for four or five years, and you had to move away from it because of the exposure.
Yeah.
So yeah, when I was thinking about some kind of support group, honestly, My relationship with.
Danielle Hallen was built on that. Also.
We were like, hey, how do we support each other? How do we take care of each other? So, yeah, it was I knew when I wanted to try to do something like that, I needed experts there with me, and I knew immediately it was the two of you.
And I'm so proud of that too. Yeah.
Is It's definitely one of the highlights. But there's another thing that you guys helped with, and that was the Elisa Gomez case.
Oh yes, yes.
And the analysis that you gave us on that case inspired an investigator from a different state to swing in help on that case, become part of her family's family. And I literally I just heard from him yesterday. He's
still working on that case. And we had a meeting in Minneapolis with a bunch of city council members because they reopened the case a couple of years ago, and they were trying to figure out, Okay, what do you guys have where we supposed to take this and he was literally citing your information.
Wow about you two. Oh my gosh, I'm really like, I'm really moved by that, Like I I can't even have any words but thank you for sharing that. Yeah.
Yeah, well, and that's not the only thing from that. We had a professor of criminology reach out to me and a couple of years ago he wanted to present a case to his master's students and he's like, John, do you have a case that you think would fit this? And I said, yes, the Alisa Gomez case. And you guys were so kind. I think it was doctor Scott in particular came and spoke to that class. We actually presented that case the classes for a few years.
Yeah, professor told me it was Yeah.
He said, look, I've done a lot of these courses. I think the most significant thing I ever did was presenting that case. Wow, in the way that we did it, and thank you for being a part of it. So I have to thank you guys, because wow, that would have happened without your help.
It's not something that we get a piece of doing. And thank you for the opportunity. Definitely. Like we were kind of saying with we were talking to Tim earlier, you know, if we could just go on like helping to lend our voices on other people's podcasts, forever, we can do that forever. I don't know if we do this forever, But thank you for the opportunity. And you know that that those are the differences that you're making with the work that you do all the time and
the fact that you are doing this full time. One is heavy stuff. But we all know how to take care of ourselves. We're practicing that very well. But yeah, thanks, I'm so glad that we made that connection. Gosh, I don't we had not met in person yet, I think when we were on that show to talk about that case and then yeah, but just built a wonderful relationship afterwards.
So yeah, you're you're one of our staples, John, And of course during Get Vocal, like all of your fun games and everything during COVID, that like just you know, added to the levity.
So more mental health, yeah, taking care.
Yeah, yes, absolutely.
Yeah.
Well I'm going to be coming to LA in a few months. Okay, I want to see you guys.
I've got it's going to happen, absolutely absolutely.
We've got a premiere that we're doing for a new documentary, a docuseries that's coming out called Vanished. It seems to be a title in the documentaries I do, there's always a vanishing, but this one's this case. So yeah, there's gonna be a premiere and if I can get you guys there, I'd love for you to be there, so let us know.
But we'd be happy just to hang out with you for an evening, So please send us the date. That's awesome. I'm so glad we have something to look forward to.
Yeah.
Yeah, well, thanks for your time, John and being here.
Happy two hundred guys, Thank you, Thank you.
To take care.
How cool?
Wow?
I know here they are put these guys last because I was like, how long is this going to take?
I got a celebration milkshake, but then I was like drinking.
It while I was listening. I was like, you finished the milkshake.
What flavor milkshake is that? Bryce?
Chocolate chip, cookies and cream.
That's what.
That's correct, Tammy Embryce. You guys were normal of talk about ogs of our podcast existence. I was looking back Tammy at our Instagram feed and when we did our cult episode, you commented on there like is this that one? And because I can't remember which of us cited each other at some point, but we were kind of covering similar topics at the same time, and that's how we were born as.
Yeah, I was watching the Buddha Field Call.
I was watching a little documentary and it was so weird because I heard your interview. You guys did an episode about it, and I'm like, holy, they know their stuff, man, they're amazing. And we did the we did our episode and I was like, Bryce, you gotta listen to this podcast.
And that's how we I think we tagged on a post.
Too, and that's how we got like like cooked blind and sinker with us.
I know, look at this, but nearly eight years later, we are now you're our friends, we're tied together or yes, family's are friends.
Now we got to do a blood ritual totally.
Yeah.
I think we got to figure out when I don't know, Scott tell us when mercury is not in retrograde or there's a moon aligns with that or something.
You know.
Just what are you guys up to these days? What's new for holyweird paranormal?
Oh my goodness.
Well, as you guys know, I don't know if anybody has heard, but we're going to Windy City Parafest in Chicago. So there's this beautiful little paranormal convention that is happening in Chicago, Illinois. It's the first annual one, and a shout out to Frankie Everley, who is coordinating everything along with his team. They wanted to create like a convention that is not consistently made up of no offense is like just cis white.
Male men like we're wearing.
I know.
He wanted something very diverse.
He's like, I need people of color, people from you know, the lgbt HUI community, you know. And I wanted to create a community not only of just those people, but of artists and and so in June the thirteenth through the fifteenth, he's going to have this convention and Bryce and myself are going to head over there and lead to talk about like Haunted Hollywood.
It's gonna be like whoa, oh my gosh, the talk. I will be eat, I know, both of us will.
We are to be sharing stories of our old school in Chicago.
Do you remember when we.
We put Bryce in the corner and made him do our slides we representation.
In the corner.
That's right. Long I was able to do a little bit about like.
This tray there.
He'll be fine, But we all also like I don't I do not want this to slip because this sort of harkens back to talking to Rebecca earlier. Is it's easy to forget how much we've actually done with you guys over the years, like from you being at my previous apartment where we had a blast just giggling while we recorded, and then doing Parapod the art was it Parapod?
We did Parapod but then yeah, we.
Also did the Heritage Square Museum, which was like I thought was I think it was a miracle that it came off that everybody, that all the attendees were so impressed. So you're our good luck charm for live live performances.
I think, Yeah, our writer dies for sure. And you guys, I mean you're a writer dies.
You know.
Again, you are two extremely good friends doing this together. That and how long have you guys been podcasting now almost.
Yeah as long as even friends almost eight years?
Yeah yeah, yeah, so same same amount of time as us. And it's like, can you guys even imagine trying to do this alone or without the other person.
At this point, it's not the same without Bryce. When Bryce is on the Hiatis, it was weird. It was really weird.
It was like open mic Night and crickets because like I need you know, he adds that finishing touch in his soapbox when he brings the soapbox.
This the Bryce soapbox and.
Every week, Yeah, Scott and Bryce must have bought theirs at the same soapbox store.
Yeah yeah, we go to soapbox warehouse for ourls.
Yeah.
I look. I think it's an interesting dynamic. I mean, it's kind of tail as old as time of you know, gay men and fabulous women pairing up. But I think I won't speak for Bryce, but I will speak for myself. Is like I, you know, our process has just evolved into something that works so well. But I Shiloh is is actually the driver of everything, and she gets ship done in a way that I'm just not capable of. And I don't know if you guys have that dynamic.
If we ever, like if somebody came and says, oh, here, we're going to give you a million dollars for your IP, I'm going to be like, yes, she gets like three quarters of it, like she's been doing the Lions.
Share, Jammy gets all of it. I just want to be like my face on a sweatshirt and I'm.
Just like that.
Just pay me in Starbucks cards. It's fine.
Yeah, Yeah, the engine for sure, I get to kind of be funny color commentary.
But.
Also the healthy minded skeptic.
You're the past.
Everyone of the best, good, good little dose in there. But yeah, and let's when.
You go to these content locations.
Yeah, but I want to, like, I think that that's something in the genre in which you create that's super important, you know, like the work that you've done. I just was listening to my Victorian Crimes or something like that. Is the newer podcast really well done? And she didn't give you credit, but I felt like there was an implied credit when she said, we're not going to talk about the Winchester Mystery House because everything you've heard is
completely wrong. Yeah, and yeah, I mean I've just I've learned so much from listening to you. And but like you don't you do not produce a show without every single freaking receipt, which we admire because that's what we aim to do with our resources and our research. And you know, I, I mean, I've had this conversation with Timmy and with both of you. Actually, like I am a believer, but I don't, you know, my mind is open, but it's not so open that what's left of my
brain falls out right. But I think it's interesting to be open to phenomenon whatever the source of that phenomenon is.
Yeah, absolutely, I mean I think you know you are like us and that you will forever have material right for your show. You can reach into the past. Obviously we have the kinship of really being like La Hollywood centric as well, where we can pull stuff from that which is never ending. But the chemistry is amazing. Yes,
you know, Tammy brings the receipts. She's the person you perk up and you listen to and then you hear like the soapbox coming out, and I'm like, I got to turn this up because I'm I'm going to learn something from Bryce, who is, however, much younger than me, and he is going to absolutely school me and like blow me away with a perspective on something. That's why
I've loved you guys so much. So I'm so glad that just that I could listen to your show, but the fact that we decided to meet it do Pars that day and lost, you.
Know, Yeah, it was so fun.
The four of us and Emma Roberts and Evan Peters.
Yeah, we basically all shared a table and I looked.
At each other. We were like, boy, you gotta run. I know, I was like pancake. And that's when you had your your fabulous like and the big Viking beard look.
I know, right, gosh, well what again, I mean other than the festival, you guys still, I mean being pretty consistent with your episodes. Anything new Hollywood Paranormal coming up for you guys this summer or anything.
No, not at the moment. I mean, we're just doing you know, we're just continuing to.
Record and trying to update our you know, Patreon, and trying to be consistent, but also trying not to burn ourselves out too.
And yeah, I know that.
You know, we noticed that with a lot of podcasters out there are.
Friends who it's just they are consistently putting things out there, and then they burn themselves out and then that's the end of it. And you know, I honor I always honor Bryce's schedule, and like when he needs to take a break and he does the same with me, and it's like we're both tired, you know, let's take a break.
Yeah, let's not burn ourselves out. I think that's why, you know.
That was the key of like being so consistent and understanding is just understanding you know where we're coming from and our time and yeah.
Yeah, well let's please get a drink soon. We're going to have you will meet up coming up this spring, so we would love to have you guys there, or we'll just put our own thing now that we.
Need to listen here and we need to put that out there. We need to have another collab events, something so intimate.
Yeah, we do for sure. We discussed that with from Beneath the Hollywood Sign, So we'll reach out to you guys. Oh a room that they have access to, that would be cool.
That is so awesome. Well, thank you for making time to be here. Anything for you, anything, guys, Love you guys so much.
Have a great night.
Thanks nights. Oh god, no, no, oh, my goodness.
Geez. I what a what a journey. It's so easy, especially with my squirrel brain, you know, I those of us that are neurodivergent on the ADHD spectrum see time and experience time and kind of a different way. And that it was that like is a little bit shocking to me to like reconnect with these people of like how much intense time we spent with them, especially during the intense city of COVID when we were all doing this reaching out to each other electronically. It just makes me.
I mean, I'm I'm just impressed that we have such quality people in our lives.
Again liked endless. I mean, I just you know, can scroll through who we follow and just be like, oh I miss them, I miss their face. I mean, you know, in different ways. Especially the folks we've had here tonight, we've just connected so deeply. So with that, we thought we'd move on to some kind of some listener fan favorite quotes, episodes, comments, and we'll move into some Q
and A to round out this episode. So I did ask, you know, it's interesting because we have so many hours of content, and I was asking people, like, how do you ask someone to go back and remember, like, Hey, what's your favorite quote or whatever? I mean, I can't even think of him. I know, there's so many good ones.
But we did get some responses, which of course are hilarious, and then I want to read some that apparently, like I used to just post quotes on our Instagram, like the funny shit I thought you said in each episode. Maybe I was trying to like get people to be like, get to know us, like we aren't the psychologist with the sticks of our asses that we sound like. Scott
does say something hilarious and cute all the time. But Bridget our fellow psychologist from New Zealand, Patroon member love we have seen her through I think two babies now,
I'm real, I know our big family. But she's this is not our quote, but I think it was actually in a review or a comment where someone was being snarky about us, like not in a good way, in a negative way, but they called us over credentialed, smarty pantss or we quoted that when we like read it back and she's like, I would totally buy this as March and.
We both like, like even me being hyper sensitive to to bad reviews, Like we both just giggled and thought, like that's a compliment, I know.
But she said another favorite quote of hers of yours was just to own your ship. Like ownership people, whether you're talking about yourself, me or listeners, the people that commit crimes that you know we're constantly talking about. Everyone's got a little part in something, and own your ship.
Yeah, look, and it's nothing. I appreciate that it peaked her ear or or anyone's ear. We've actually gotten that several times, people saying that they like that. And you know, I often say to my clients that there's very little
new developments and clinical treatment for developing insight. You know, like the same stuff has been around for not only hundreds of years, but thousands of years from philosophers and own your shit is can be you know, another way, it can be a little bit more of a practical way of saying, be mindful. You know, own your shit is actually a secret when you take responsibility for your role in life. And yes, I'm not saying like, no,
we're not all in the same boat. I get that, but owning your shit, owning your challenges, having insight is absolutely life changing. So I'm glad that somebody picked up on that. But then, how about our name plates for our conference table that you printed out all, Oh my.
Gosh, yeah, I don't have those handy, so mine, said doctor Shiloh. I'm a fucking professional.
Underneath mine said, I'm a professional, know it all.
Professional, know it all, Doctor Scott, professional know it all. Yes, those were our job titles that we put out on our tables. John, who is amazing wealth of knowledge. We've talked about him before, who just knows everything about the vintage stuff and entertainment.
Like beyond any of my colleagues, and I have a lot of colleagues, but he is exceptional.
Yes, So he reached all the way back to episode six, which was when we talked about therapists depictions in entertainment. But this little back and forth where I know, I don't know what we're talking about, but I said, I can't answer this question because I don't watch Star Trek.
Well, I knew something was wrong with you. I just knew. And I said, Okay, yeah, I knew something that's wrong with you.
And this is so funny because John, I'll get a kick out of this. But I just I went up to San Francisco on Sunday night to go to a board meeting on Monday, and at our hotel where we were having our board meeting and staying was a Star Trek convention. And I walk in the hotel and I just immediately see a guy with twenty ears and I'm like, what is happening? And then all of a sudden, like a panel must have let out, and they were everywhere.
And so here I am sitting with a bunch of cops like it was negotiators, and we're surrounded by people painted green and people in their little Star Trek outfits, and it was it was pretty funny. I was like, there's something for everyone. This is what people are looking at me when I'm at some Twin Peaks festival. But
good times. He also commented he thought it was a behind the couch episode, so he was paraphrasing here, but basically, you're like, hey, it's autumn and that makes me think of putting on my old cardigan and sipping a Pumpkin'spice latte. And then I called you a basic bitch, And I.
Said, I'm such a basic bitch because I am like you owned your shit. Well I own my shit. I like, you know, I like I'll sometimes allow myself to feel a little bit special. Uh, you know what, We're all.
Unique, We're all unique, but we're all basic bitches, right. So I wanted to go back onto our Instagram. I pulled some what I would do, like I would just make these posts with quotes and I don't know if you know what This one is from these are very early, like I'm talking first few episodes, but the quote is and I have zero context for this is and this is you Chaz Darling, which was a name that we referenced, and you said, like a drag queen in Tampa. And I don't know who Chazz Darling was.
I don't even remember that. Oh my gosh, but you pulled that out of queen Tampa.
Yeah, oh my god, Tampa. And then I have another one that's where you said, I don't know if this was you or me, Actually, let's get rid of that pesky murder charge and get you a job in law enforcement. So someone must have killed somebody and then gotten a job as a cop. Gosh, where did the other one go? And then one of us said non missionary sex, what a concept?
So I don't know.
Apparently back then thought.
They were hilarious, and it's really hard to tell would have said that now at this point either one of us would have.
Yeah, no, totally. I mean, and you guys, I know there's so many and we tried for a minute. I think I posted a handful of Scott takes, you know, some audio on our social media of Scott's hot take of the episode. But I just could not keep up with it, like I wish.
I mean, I know. It's one of the things that was really frustrating because both of us have like some like when we get going, we had some really good quips and one of our pre we love our current platform, and we our platform current platform love it. Yeah, but one of our previous platforms had this little thing where listeners who were listening to shows on that platform could pick their favorite quote and post it like it was. It was a great little little thing to have happened.
I'm sorry to see that go. That would have been really cool. So you going on to fan favorite episodes, Bridget you know, who was so helpful and helping us pick these things out. Went on to say that her favorite episode was always the Patreon episode with the Tennis podcast talking about the smartest serial killers. Yeah, it was great conversation.
That was so you guys, We've done crossovers with Tennis podcast. I've been on the show as a guest host several times. We still need to get you on there, doctor Scott. I'm gonna dm Nick, who couldn't be here tonight. We invited him to be on but you can make it. But they do top ten lists that the other person has to guess, and so we had them on a Patreon episode eventually was you know, I think it was a live stream that we did, probably back on Get
Vocal in those days. But Nick and I teamed up and quizzed you and his then co host Brandon on Smartest serial Killers based on IQ and so much fun. Love them, love them, but also at this point a nice little time capsule because Brandon has since passed away, and therefore, you know, Nick has kind of a rotation
of guest hosts on the show. Wonderful show still, but there's really nothing like the days of Nick and Brandon, like when I first started listening to them, Like, these guys are like the brothers I never had.
It's just incredibly sweet, sweet, smart, funny guys just just top notche, both of them, just top notche.
Yeah.
So other fan favorite episodes, so don from Instagram. I giggle because there's a theme here, but she says, I really enjoyed the Disney Crimes episodes, including them Behind the Couch from twenty twenty, because we did a follow up, we had so many like Disney crimes that we did a follow up and she said, I just discovered the podcast and Scott's anecdotes had me hooked along with your commitment to and explanations of Disney culture, the psychology of Disney culture.
I mean, look, we're part of it. I mean I think that there's actually a lot to talk about that we referred to actually without going into it, we've talked about it on that content that we've created, but there was also like for me, one of the things that is about how it meshes our friendship together is these really amazing moments in my life and in the joining of our families that we spent going there and being
kids again, like to be able. You know, when you're going the stress of grad school goes away when you're just allowing yourself to eat as much sugar as you want and be on rides and be silly and also enjoy other and watch other people enjoying themselves. So like, I get it. It's not for everybody. I mean, I
really get it. But one of the funniest hate reviews like and it was funny because both you and Bixler thought that I was going to be really pissed off about it like, but you you've got called what a
what cop? Or a cop lover or something. I can't wait, I don't remember what the adjective was for something cop And I got called a Disney adult, like she thought I would be insulted by that, like I I don't know what your I actually you know, I mean, like in all seriousness, like there is for those of us that had childhoods that were really you know, I wouldn't say I was impoverished, but there wasn't a lot going around, and so to be able to kind of recapture and
reignite that and share it with friends, I think is actually something quite beautiful. Yes, it's a corporate entity, but it was like a really cool experience and I kind of felt sorry it is, like what what is that about? Like projecting like a Disney adult? Like I could almost imagine that it's being spit out like that. But you know what, everybody, you know, you do you?
Yeah, no kidding. And then Jeff from Facebook he said, I'm a big fan of the Disney episode. So I mean we had more the one person when we put out there, what's your favorite episodes? That said it was the Disney ones. You know, interception for everything.
Yeah, there is, and also that that also is a fascinating crime about this, I mean, I'm sure they're including the one the celebration residential murders in right Orlando, which is just family annihilation.
Yeah. So we also heard a little bit more from Bridget. She elaborated here. She says, I love the really niche episodes no one else does in cells, body integrity, identity disorder, clergy offenders, dog shows. Remember we did a dog show episode Beauty pageants. The research is mind blowing in these areas, and it's nice having it summarized and challenging. What is
presented in entertainment is so important. I really enjoyed the Patreon guest who talked about hazing, and in light of the abortion bands in the US, I was really interested in infanticide and how this increases when abortion is less available. My favorite soapbox is around rape laws targeting gay sex. She says, although I've probably oversimplified this massively, and as
a psychologist, I love being able to formulate. Also, Richard Ramirez, based on the history you provided of him, it didn't make me forgive his crimes, just understand the pathway that got him there. And then I'm very proud of her very last comment here where she says, and you brought me over to team intruder on the John Benney Ramsey case. So that was a very sweet summary of a lot of what we've covered a lot.
I'm also really happy that that particular formulation works for It works for a lot of people because when when you are an observer of this media on I wouldn't say a supervisial level, but on a base level, it's just really easy, depending on how the media is presented, to fall into this perspective that people are all good or all bad and they're they're not. People can do absolutely, absolutely heinous things that they absolutely should be punished for.
But let's not shut off our understanding for how people get there, so that we as a society and we as individuals endeavor to prevent that from happening. You know, we should all be thinking about it, like if we say that we love our kids so much and we want to keep our kids safe, and let's actually do it, you know, let's actually protect our kids so that that match never gets lit. To throw on the fire of those of the three footed stool metaphor that you use.
Well and I nothing.
I don't know.
It's just always humbling to me when we get good feedback from other mental health professionals, because just like any other profession I think we can always kind of look at each other with like an assessment of you know, how good are they compared to me? Or you know, do they know their stuff or that sort of thing.
And for somebody like Bridget who's a psychologist, or the amazing social workers or psychiatric nurses or you know, MFTs that write in and tell us what our show has given them or meant to them or help them in different perspectives is amazing. And then you can have someone that's just a fan of true crime and a novice and wants to know a little bit more. And I think it's a lot to be proud of that our show reaches that spectrum of folks. So I don't care
how big our audience is. The fact that there is you know, sort of people sprinkled all over that spectrum is what makes it really special.
Yeah, it's great, it's awesome, and we have the best audiences ever and every we just do. I don't have a lot to compare it to with other people that have I mean no, I guess some of our guests today they talk about their interaction with with their listeners, and I think we've just been lucky to associate with some really stellar people that has helped us keep our keep our standards high, which is a difference. Let's let's go on to we want to do a little bit
of a Q and ah. The people that are still with us, thank you so much. You're just wonderful to listen to you guys us here and stroke ourselves. But that sounded gross. Sorry, did not mean to say that, like pat ourselves in the back. That's what I meant. That's what I meant. If you have questions in the chat, but I'm going to answer a couple of them right now, or both of us actually will communicate from Instagram. Said what databases do you use when researching your shows? And
we use a lot. We actually have a lot of resources.
Number of sources, yeah, tons of sources. I mean obviously we've kind of mentioned like books and oh gosh, I'm so sorry, I need to update the website too. On our resources, we always put a resource page there for you guys. But as far as databases go, I mean, if you can get a research gate account, it's a great place to start for just to start throwing in some terms and seeing what journal articles come up. So many of them are accessible as a full PDF download.
Other ones you might not be able to access, but there's a button right there that says request from the author. Then you're not having to like subscribe to a database that you have to pay to get something. Sometimes they'll just send you the pdf.
So researchers are so happy that somebody like, oh, looking at my paper, they'll send you the pdf. It's great. Totally Google, you know, Google is a part of the evil Empire right now, unfortunately, but Google Scholar has been a real boon to us. The thing with any search engine if you're not going directly to the journals page like Sage Journal or ebsco host. I mean, I have an ongoing membership to ebsco host, which gives me access to all the psych journals, which is great. I wish
I had the extension of that. That's all the like law enforcement research, but I you know, you have some of those. We have different forms of access basically, but always, always, always go past the first five pages on your search because the algorithm varies some of the best stuff, and that's really unfortunate. That's just unfortunately the way everything's programmed now. So you keep searching. I think that finding stuff in media, like even listicles in places like BuzzFeed, can often be
a really great springboard into further research. And then and then I'll just go into a halt, like you guys should see our computer files. I mean, we are just stuffed with hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of articles. And then also one of the things if you are couldating research for anything, the Google Chrome extension, which I believe is called libson I'm not sure, but there's a Google Chrome extension that takes all of your data and puts it into APA format and you can choose all of
the APA format AMA format. It's a miracle. It would have changed my life. I mean, I can think about how I had to slog through doing my dissertation by hand. Oh my god, all that formula.
Was terrible, or just the mybib that puts your resarc my bib. Yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, And I just want to add real quick, Abby jumped in. It's okay that you're a late girl. Don't worry about it, but she says she loved the Britney Spears and Kanye West episodes very informative as well as the new Delphi Ethics episode was a good listen and we got a lot of
We're still getting feedback trickling in about that. One of our Champagne girls was just dming me about how much she really appreciated that episode, so oh great.
Well. Annabelle from Instagram said, I'd be interested in how you stay safe as a forensic psyche in Australia. At least forensic clients are not handcuffed when treated by their psyches. How do you not get attacked? I recently heard of a murderer who killed the forensic psychiatrist who had testified against him. How about families that have their kids taken away revenge plots. I'd be interested in forensic psyche, but I don't want to die. You know, that's a really,
really good question. I think that we've talked about various elements of it. I will say this, I have never felt more safe than when I was working in a prison. Yeah, because it is a very very controlled environment. It is not inmates who are in a position of being high acuity, they've been there for a while, they're settled into their routine or what they call program. And there's also no
cred in harming a mental health worker. Like there's a really famous and horrific, horrific, tragic case here in California where a female social worker, lovely, lovely, middle aged female social worker was murdered by an inmate who then you know, tried to hide her body and you know, was discovered very quickly, and you know, he got his time extended,
and like he got the legal ramifications. But what you don't hear a lot about is that guy got fucked up in prison because he took out somebody that inmates see generally as an advocate. You know, it's a neutral party, true, you know, it's a neutral party.
And I found that on the outside as well, you know, working with people post incarceration back in the community. I'm not exaggerating when I say, like I have seen them be incredibly protective of staff at the clinic in a way that was almost like, whoa, you don't need to go back to prison for me, right, Like.
Yeah, I'm in that position, Yeah, yeah, did you No, It's fine.
We had had we had a receptionist at my clinic that you know, probably told someone they needed to sign in when they didn't sign in or something, and she went out to her car and she had left her window rolled down a little bit and somebody had dumped like an ash tray in it.
Right.
So the guys in the group, when they found out that someone did that, and we assumed that it was probably someone from the clinic, they were like, who is it. We'll find them and we were like, whoa.
You know, I mean there's a dynamic. I mean that that in itself that sort of relaxed inability to mitigate or regulate their emotionality. I mean we can say like, oh, they feel protective, but it's also like that disinhibition is part of probably what's why they ended up getting in trouble. Right, So, you know, Annabelle went on, I mean, I'm just going to just go back to one point that she made about,
you know, a person who unlived. I should use that term unlive to forensic psychiatrists too at testified against him. You know that certainly, thankfully, is a rare occurrence. But I would also say that there would be no difference between that forensic psychiatrist and any other paid professional that
comes upon the stand and testifies. Like there are judges, you know, it's not really well, not really talked about, but through across the country, many retired judges that do high profile criminal cases actually move, They move far away from the areas where they practiced as soon as they retired, and they, you know, because they don't want to be in the vicinity of the people that they helped put behind bars. So those things happen, thankfully, it's very rare.
I think it's an amazing career. It's not for everybody, but you know, even as a forensic psych we've talked about this in episodes where you may if you are an employee of the state or the county and you're working in a correctional setting, your client is actually your employer, like so there's actually limited there's limited confidentiality in a
setting like that. So the person you're talking to is very well aware of that and if you explain it well, like, hey, I want this to be a space for you, but you understand my role, right, My role here is to understand what's making you tick. And there are some people that are cold, and I don't want a victim blame at all. But like you know, you also need to have a bearing that is somewhat neutral, even if you're talking about things that are way over on one side
of the scale. If you present it neutrallly, there's less likely that you will be in danger.
To just speak on working out in the community. Let's say you work for a company, a clinic, a parole office, you know something like that. Obviously, if you work at like a parole office or affiliated with a government agency where there's law enforcement around, it's going to be by nature a more safe place, right they know to be on their best behavior there. There's people that can step in in a clinic setting, they know that there's a possibility that like a parole agent could step in at
any time. So there's a little bit of that sort of fear there, but it's it is really the responsibility of the clinic and the staff to make good decisions right where you don't have somebody running a group by themselves when there's nobody else in the clinic, or that there's just one or two women closing up at night after that group, let's out at seven o'clock at night
and it's dark, and the higher risk offenders. The higher risk groups or the more violent or contact offense oriented people are seen during the day, right when there's lot of people around. There's just ways that clinics put those practices into motion, but it's it should be a constant conversation.
There are moments I've talked about moments where I've had a client like act out in a group, throw something across the room, stare daggers at me, and I've had to tell him I've had to kick him out, And then looking back on it, I'm like, oh, it's just me and my receptionist, who's the sweetest, most docile, adorable person in the world.
But it was.
Immediately me leaving the group, locking the door behind him, calling his parle agent, and then you know, going about that the rest of that night. But I also had a group of people that were very, very low risk, majority elderly. Like there's just a ton of factors you have to take into consideration. But if you're ever feeling in your stomach, in your gut, like I don't want to be left alone with this person, I don't want to I don't think this is a good idea to
have this group at a certain time. Talk to your supervision, make that known and they should be able to work in you know, making you comfortable and making sure safety is absolutely number one.
Yeah, great, great advice. Another one of our listeners, to Girl nineteen ninety nine asks what books or other media do you have for a girl trying to overcome a toxic parent or mother. So, first of all, as overused as a term as this is, I really want to
hold space for anyone who's in this position. Just know that I am no as a clinician that I've seen this so often and in ways that make me get a perspective on my own upbringing that I'm like, I am much more grateful for my upbringing at this stage of my life than I ever have been. And I you know, I hear what you're saying, So you know the one. There are a couple of books that I highly highly recommend. You can get them used on. You can rent a lot of them from your local library
digitally and that goes right to your kindle lap. But the go to is Adult Children of the Emotionally Immature. And one of the reasons I like it is because it really doesn't even in the title, it doesn't center in on narcissism so much is like a strict diagnosis, but it gives you know, because we don't want to over diagnose everybody. But you know, you can have traits and be completely self centered and just be, you know, a jackass. Right, So adult children are the emotionally immature.
It's also not an easy read because some of what the author does is point out, hey, you have to be careful because no matter what where you are right now and what you're struggling with, you may be more likely to be acting out to your loved ones in the way that you were taught to. And that's that hasn't stuck very well with clients at time, but I do think that there's valuable stuff in it. Another great
one is Will I Ever Be Good Enough? And then another one that I find really really really good is Children of the Self Absorbed. Oh okay, I think it's really great. And then there's also this fantastic grand Dame of toxic malignant Narcissism. Not that she is, but she's an incredible writer is psychology at Yeah, psychologist doctor Eleanor Green. She's got several books out that she's like the go to, And I really have such admiration for her, and she
writes many many answers on Quora about surviving narcissism. So, I mean, I think that you're asking a very timely question, you know, not like I was saying, not all parents, not all toxic parents are narcissists. You know, sometimes an
asshole is just an asshole. But we're living in very interesting times and I want to throw something out into our listeners about this type of phenomenon, if I'm using the term correctly for this context, is that we're living in a time where they're I mean, yes, there's some really awful things going on in the world, but as far as people in Western culture starting to own their shit and looking at what's not working and taking a mirror to themselves and then also going, wait, this is
not okay. These behaviors that I've been putting up with for twenty five years from toxic parents are not all right. And they're turning to the parents and they're drawing appropriate boundaries, and it's upturning society. Like there are a lot of boomers right now that refuse to take ownership of their poor parenting skills. And you know, I got a harsh lesson for some of our not maybe not our listeners,
but our listeners parients. It's like, you need to clean your shit up or you're going to be alone in your old age because people are coming to the realization, you know, you don't owe anything to anyone that has treated you like crap.
You just don't.
Yeah, So take a look at those read doctor eleanor Green. I think they're really enlightening.
YEP. I don't have anything to add to that. Scott's more expert in that area than I am. I do want to answer Amy's questions. She threw into the chat way back when we started, nearly two hours ago. She was just wondering how we ever got connected with Bob Bruff on Truth and Justice. I'm pretty sure it was during COVID he reached out to Tim and Lance because remember he was doing that thing where he had just
podcasters on talking about a specific case. So I think you went on first and you talked about Scott Peterson, and then he had me on and I ended up talking about the is it Jonathan Orr the firefighter arsonist because Bob Ruff's former fire captain, and I was like, this is the case I'm bringing you buddy. Then we went on to obviously you know guest a couple times on Truth and Justice on a season and have done some live stuff together. And also one of our good friends.
So okay, So Trh Cabana three, longtime listener from Instagram said, have either of you had a client patient discussed the podcast.
With you in therapy?
And I was like, oh, dare you try and trick us into breaking confidentiality.
After all?
Okay, but you know, I think this dance. When I read this, I was like, okay, I'm not going to confirm or deny this. Am My thinking behind that is I invite our listeners to think, like, how would you feel if you listened to the show you're also a client of ours, and then now we're answering this question, right, So what I'm going to do is say how I would handle that, which is interesting because you sometimes we have to talk about like what if we run into
each other in person outside of therapy with anyone. I talk about it all the time at work because I see people in many different capacities, not just a therapeutic setting at my job. But in this case, I would say, if you listen to the podcast, or if you've discovered the podcast, because remember we were talking about like is it at the call to google your clients, They're definitely
going to google you. I will fully admit, like, I've definitely had people go, oh yeah, I googled you before I came in here, whether or not you know it's podcast related. But I would say, look, if you choose to continue to work with me as your therapist and continue to listen to the podcast, you're going to get to know me on a different level than you would some other therapist. Like you're probably going to learn things about me personally, some views my family, and that's your choice,
and I can't choose that for you. I just need to know you're okay with it, and if anything ever comes up that you're uncomfortable with, let's talk about it. Let's talk about it. But you know, also, it's we're here for whatever you're coming into this office with to work on. So I don't know anything different or wait, I don't know what you want to add to that.
The only thing that I would add is like, it's it's happened a couple of times, and look, I I don't think I mean I've I've had a therapist myself that was like is really well regarded as like one of the best in town, and like, I'm a good therapist, and I would say I'm even like an exceptional therapist for some people. For very specific I think I always say when people come in the room, plete you got a shop, don't just stick with me, look at other profiles.
Talk to people. You need to find the thing that vibes with you. But my very small private practice is made up of people that feel a connection and feel safe. And if they found me through the podcast or they just happened to notice it, that quickly takes a back seat to the work. That's awesome, you know, because we dive in and it's about like, you know, you're also paying me money you like, and that that's very big for me. It's like, this is a this is a service.
It's a service, and it's a relationship, and I want you to get everything out of it that you're paying for.
You know.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Nick from Tennis, last question, Yeah, where do you see la not so confidential in the next year. What about the next five years?
The big question.
I've got some we we both had some ideas that have emerged over the past few months that would be really, really awesome if they took this action, took our project to a different level. That would be what would afford us a little bit more ease than what we're doing. And that may happen, it may not. I'm trying to manifest it, you know, lighting candles, putting on essential oils. We'll see you know what you what about you? Yeah?
No, Weirdly, I think like for one of the first times in our podcast history, I just don't really know. And I'm not trying to think too hard about it either. You know, as we have outlined kind of our looking back and chatting with our friends, it seems like we've like always had a trajectory, We've always had a focus or like this is the next thing, the next level to do, and by this time, I mean we've checked a lot of those off. So I kind of love that we're in a like go with the flow state.
As we've mentioned recently, like just professional responsibilities have changed, you know, diversifying ourselves a little bit with some other things that we like to do. I'm not in the point where I'm like I need to make this podcast bigger than ever right, Like I said, already, I love our audience, who they are, what they are, what it is. I just want to like talk with you take care
of our audience. Thank you so much, Catherine, she said in the chat, like how she loves how much we do interact and really like build a community with our audience. So I think that's wonderful. So I feel like that on one hand. And then like a week or two ago, I was talking to this true crime podcaster about a totally different project that had nothing to do with us, and he was like, have you guys ever considered a TV adaptation, which yeah, I mean we've totally been down
that road. But I'm like, if something if you can make magic happen where this is adaptable, we're listening, but we still haven't really heard anything that has made us go, yeah, that'd be amazing.
So well, that's right. People people don't also don't follow through, but that's the nature of Hollywood. It's like, yeah, we also tell them like, okay, here the parameters. We're not retired, so we would love to do your project if you
can hit these three things. And I think that that comes to a hard stop for some people, but that's Okay, you know, we'll see we've you know, we've both inhabited this particular space for this project while we've both been working multiple jobs and multiple projects, and you know, we're taking time to rebalance our lives, which I think is good. And yeah, the last few months have made a big difference. I made a big shift in work, which is a huge adjustment and a huge identity shift that I was
not expecting. All good, but like giving birth is wonderful, but it's like painful, right, I mean, I'm assuming because I haven't I don't know.
I had an epidural, So nobody has to be a hero in my eyes.
Okay, but are our top three recent crime stories?
Now, let's just wrap this up. We're almost two hours in. We just really wanted to end this with. I mean, we've talked about, you know, kind of what's in the future, and I'm sorry, it's a big I don't know. I will say, mark your calendars if you're in LA, We're going to do a meetup Friday, April eleventh, probably in downtown LA in the arts district. I just have to reach out to the venue I'm have in my head where it will be. But I just need to confirm.
So if you guys are around, it's really just going to be a casual meetup. If we turn it into something else, if maybe we can get a little bit more tucked away space to do something a little bit more I don't know, performative live. We'll we'll figure that out later, but we're not setting that expectation yet. So that is I mean kind of for future plans other than just rolling out our episodes. But we also wanted to take the time just to think our amazing audience.
You know, in thanking all of you, the people who just found us, however you found us that then went on to explore their journey on a career path like Shiloh when I took ye that I say it over it. I'm sure people are sick of hearing it. It just it brings me to tears. It brings me to tears. That like that you something that we have just giggled and love to produce, like, has inspired people or given people an idea to take their career in that direction
and they're completely rocking it. I think that's wonderful. And then there's also people who have shared incredibly personal moments with us. Via email because an episode that we recorded resonated so intimately and so profoundly with them and that we had a positive impact. I so many of those are intensely personal. You know, I clearly can't share them and it wouldn't be right, but please know again we
are both so humbled and honored to receive those. And you know, Shiloh, I shared the one with you that we got this week that literally made me tear up. I was just, oh my gosh, so moved by it by a recent episode. So all of you, thank you, thank you for letting us in. That's yeah, wonderful.
Yeah, absolutely kind of said it better. Also, just what we've already mentioned, just the community that it's created, and you know, I know we joke of like we've seen Bridget through two babies, like literally sent her la not so confidential onesie for her child, and just year after year, right seeing people on the you know, the the live stuff like this, the watch parties like where we're all feel like we're kind of sitting there eating popcorn, having
a glass of wine, watching a movie together, or the holiday parties or live I mean, we do not have voices at the end of the day, when we go to a festival because we're just like in it and talking to you guys about everything and just gushing about this weird shit that we all like to talk about, which is the coolest. So thank you guys so much. I think we want to do one last shout out obviously to two Oh okay, okay, I I didn't know.
I didn't I didn't put it on the notes. But first of all, it goes without saying, I like this one really does make me tear up. Is our dear friend and producer, you know, and sweetener and editor. Jason has taken us to a completely different level with his skills,
Like it's just there. I've never expected to have a colleague, a creative producer that learned our voice in the process of producing this and managed to take our gobbledegook from late night sessions when we're so exhausted, ye and red eyed and raw voiced, and he has just turned it into a product. There are times where we've gone through something it's ten o'clock at night and Shila and I both go, Jason, I'm so sorry, that.
Makes no sense, like apologizing to each other.
Man have that last paragraph and he will come in and he's edited into something that makes so much coherent sense. It's wonderful. So thank you, Jason, thank you for being our friend, thank you for being our colleague. He's a wonderful content producer himself. And last, but not least, Abby Blackbird. Abby.
Abby is just like the younger generation because she's both solidly outside my generation and Shilah's generation and has given us so much information on like hey, and she's been so kind about like, hey, you know you really should do this, like this is how other shows do it, and like we just would have never known, we would
never really known how to actually work a Patreon. It will be on this board, you know, so, Abby, thank you for being just an intrinsic and integral part of this content creation and for you know, like.
We said, emails that we get, but for letting us into your life. And you know you posted something recently, Abby, a little video of you a few years ago and then now and we've known you through a lot of stuff and we love you and we're so proud of you, and absolutely thank you for helping out your old aunt and uncle. Yeah, and for going out and doing some recognissance for us. Thank you for that too. I'll keep that between us, but that's very sweet. Thank you for
including her. Scott. Okay, you guys, we could be here all for goodnight and you don't want to do that. But thank you for two hundred plus plus plus plus plus plus episodes for sure, but really just finally hitting that number with something we had to stop and savor. And thank you Scott for doing this with me all this time.
Words Canni, I know, I know, I know whatever.
I'll just cut it off there, all right, We'll see you next time on La Not So Confidential.
Hi, guys, Okay, hang on, wait a minute.
Since I'm the editor, I get to put something in here too, because I couldn't make the live the other night.
Shoutout, Scott. I don't know how.
Many of the two hundred episodes I have edited for you. I think it's been more than a prettyure's been more than one hundred. I kind of tried to look back and see where it started, couldn't really pinpoint it, but I want you to know that it's been one of
the best experiences of my life. The two of you are kind, compassionate, brilliant people, and you have been there with me through a lot of things, and you gave me a chance when I was really just starting out, and I've had such a wonderful time going on this journey with you. I admire you both so much. I love you both so much, and I am hopeful that we get two hundred more at least, but know that
I love you. I'm proud of you. Congratulations. Two hundred episodes is extraordinary and it just goes to the people that you are, the resilience that you have, the knowledge that you share. And I'm very, very proud of you.
So I love you.
Guys.
Talk to you soon or I'll text you. I'll be today.
Bye.
We sincerely thank you for spending some time with us today. La Not So Confidential is part of the Caral Space Media network. Each episode is hosted, produced, and written by doctor Scott and Doctor Shiloh. Our post production, editing and sweetening magic is handled by the multi talented Jason Usri of ear Cult Productions.
Our theme music, entitled Cool Vibes Film Noir, is composed and performed by the talented Kevin McLoud. He graciously allows us to use his music via a Creative Commons attribution license. Please check out all of Kevin's amazing work on YouTube.
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