Bartlesville City Council Workshop 1-27-25

Good evening, everybody. UH been a call the workshop meeting the barcol Barbsolle City Council to order tonight. Uh, I wanna welcome everybody. We've got a lot of people here tonight to speak. Want everybody get their three minutes in. If you're hearing comments that UH people have said before, be as expetitious as you can. If you wanna still come up and introduce yourself to us and let us know who you are and have your comments to be made.

Uh.

We've had these conversations before. We appreciate everybody bringing your comments back here to night and we'll work room as quickly as you can to night. Uh. I wanna call uh, We'll call establishment in a forum.

Hey La, Mayor Kurt here, nice mayor force hee er, mister Patch.

Here, mister east here.

Mister Sherry, please have a conflict or something I think so very good?

Item three, Uh invocation of ask uh Uh councilor Kirk Patrick pet give our invcation night, appreciate it if you would, thanks sure.

Let's pray.

Lord.

Do we ask that your spirit of unity and peace would be upon us tonight. We know that these are deep waters. We know that these are emotionally high topics. We know that every single one of us is coming into this conversation with our perspective, with our values, with the things that we care deeply about, and the people that we care deeply about.

Lord, help us to keep each.

Other firmly in mind. May we be focused on the good of our community. May that be the thing that we were wrestling together towards the betterment of our community, even through our disagreements. So may these conversations be productive, May they be healthy, and may they be helpful. We pray in Jesus name, Amen.

Very good. I remember four citizens to be heard. So we've got people in here and people next door. So I'm gonna call the first two names as best I can. So if they're in there, they can come into the hallway and be ready. Mispronounced several of 'em. So don't yell at me. If I do, just correct me and we'll we'll get those people up here and have those uh help them speak to us. So first two people are Avan Higgs and Angela Wiley.

Alright, and your name.

Thank you for thank your city Council and Mayor.

My name is Avery Higgs A V E R Y H I ggs for my friends in the media for the back. I am with the Washington County Democratic Party as the affirm of Action.

Officer in Bars of Oklahoma.

Proposed drag regulations directly violate the First Amendment of the Constitution of the United States and the First Amendment of Oklahoma's Constitution, which guarantees the freedom of speech and expression. Drag performances, like any other forms of artistic expression, are protected under the bow of rights. These show ye how.

Are a way to.

For individuals to communicate ideas, childd e terratorypes and celebrate creativity after bending, blending humor, performancing, performance, art, and cultural commentary.

Thank you for good Thank you.

Angela Wiley him my name is Angela Utley U T L E Y.

And I came here to talk about UH.

I have two trans people in my family, both for homeschool conservative homeschools.

On my aud you know they were.

The culture did not affect them in this way.

I believe in by science.

That being transgender is a physical, biological fact, you know, and definitely in these two paces I think it's a misnomer to say otherwise, and maybe symmetric patient might help.

As far as the drag shows, I believe it's a freedom of expression. They wear many different layers of clothes. Some of the things I've seen online and through some of my fellow citizens have been alarming, and I'm quite disgusted by the behaviors some of the ulter conservative people. I believe Bartisville should be a safe environment for all. I believe it is a safe environment with the drag shows.

In the way they've been presented.

So UH, I wanna keep my time short, but I'm definitely invested in my family in Bartisville, in Oklahoma.

If for the safety of everyone.

So with that, I'm concluded, and thank you for hearing me, Mayor in the council people of this room.

Thank thank you for good Thank you.

Uh.

The next two will be UH Lachelle Griffin and UH Reverend Kelly beck Beckermer What.

HI first?

Before I start, I would like to mis tell everybody in this room. I love people in general, so I disagree. It's because of my own life experiences. But anyhow, and I appreciate you, counselmen. I'm just struggling disagree with you right now, and I'm about to tell you what great proposal for regulation of drag events and public spaces. The purpose of this proposal is to request the city council's consideration a reasonable time, place, and manner restrictions on public

Obscenity does not allowed.

The average person would find the material appeals to interests when you hand out dollar bills to tip. The material depicts sexual contact in paternively offensive way. Material lacks serious, literary, artistic, political, or scientific value. We can easily attest that the average person would view Drey to have purient interest. Number four child exploitation and obscene material involving minors New York versus Favor in nineteen eighty two. You can also look.

At Miller.

Funding words speech that is personally abusive and likely to provoke an immediately violent response. Nope, the threats The city councils has received true threats speech that constitutes a truth threat, such as threats of violence against specific groups. The City Council on September third, twenty twenty five voted that this event brings a threat to the community and ordered police to be president of.

The event, so they set up presidents.

Then I was personally threatened online for disagreement with this stuff. Threatened to be abused, and I've already part of the reason up against it is because of grooming.

I experienced it personally.

I show you're three minutes through and can you wrap it up?

Yep? I can't.

Okay.

So, by understanding with the First Amendment.

Does not a lot of governments and communities can responsibly regulate public events or speech while still respectfully respecting constitutional rights. This retort proposal is not an attack on any specific group, but a call to uphold community values, protect children, and ensure public events are conducted responsibly where respectfully.

Urish the city.

Council to consider the fooling required drag events to be held indoors and charge security fees to your organizers. Prohibit children from attending drag events in public spaces. Align regulations with existing community standards. I've sent you, guys an attachment that clearly outlines all of that, and I will make.

It publicly available on Facebook for people to yell at me.

Kelly Becker, and after her will be Hillary clumpland okay, and then Spencer Bradley. Bradley if they're next door, excuse.

Me, go ahead, what do you mean, I'm reverend Kelly Becker.

I appreciate so much your uh willingness to listen to the citizens on this issue.

Some of you have heard me talk about this for and so uh my opinions won't be new to you.

I UH think that.

My frustration with this entire conversation in Bartlesville is that of four years, drag queens have been part of Pride.

Celebrations, not only in Bartlesville but all over the country. And this became a problem in Bartlesville during a campaign. Uh and uh someone who was running for city council used this issue to divide the community and quite frankly, we haven't recovered since we've been arguing about this for two years.

People are are being threatened over it. I have been threatened.

Members of my church have been threatened. Our church has been protested. And so when we talk about we're we wanna have a civilized conversation around this, I don't think there's a problem having a civilized conversation.

We've been trying to do that for a couple of years.

But I don't want us to forget that drag is part of the LGBTQIA plus culture and has been forever. That's not the problem. The LGBTQ plus community is not the problem. Drag queens are not the problem. The problem is a lack of hospitality for.

People who are different from us, and that is what we need to address.

And I really really hope that that would be something that the city Council would think about as you are making decisions about ordinances and about the way in which we should proceed. I would hope that you would have in mind that some of us who have been part of this conversation for years have been getting threats for years.

But I think the problem is the lack of hospitality for people who disagree with us, and I hope that you will address it.

That it's Hillary, Yeah, it's Hillary Camp. You're good.

I think you very tight.

I love living in bartles Hilly. Do I think we have a really special place here on the prairie. We have a beautiful study.

We have lovely neighbors do.

We have a vibrant community that is growing and thriving, and we are truly at our best when we make space for everyone in our in our community. And I see on UH the an upcoming discussion point on the agenda as relating to adult oriented entertainment in public spaces, and so if we're going to talk about adult oriented entertainment in public spaces, I really wanna address that as a member of the Bartisvilla.

Quality Board, because we do have UH public drag performances as part of our Pride celebrations.

As a mother of two boys who I love very much and I've always been very careful of and how.

I raise them, I I wanna speak to the adult oriented nature of.

Of what we're being accused of doing in public because our drive performance as a Pride that our public and open to children are not adult themed whatsoever. It's an the same level of UH someone in a costume as you would see when you go to six Golds and watch the Batman Show when there's someone on a zip line and tights. I grew up watching Adam West arguably the best Batman, and.

I don't want to hear anything about it.

Valve Kilmer Batman is one of my very favorites, and so when you look at the drag performances that we're.

Doing in public with children, it.

Would do the same as when people in superhero costumes go to Children's UH.

Cancer Awards, for example.

Like it's that same level of costuming and play.

It's just a little bit different colors it's and I don't think we can get hung up on the color of tight someone's wearing when they're UH performing in in an appropriate way.

So this last this last Pride, we were very careful in our selection of music.

It was all radio edits. We were very careful, and the movements that the drag Queens UH performed, we were all very careful because so many of us have children and we wanna make sure that we aren't doing anything inappropriate because we do understand children. My background is in theater and costuming, and so this is d just another

So thank you so much for your time, and I really do appreciate.

Good Thank you, thank you. Uh that's your brandly Brandly, Yeah, thank you, and behind him will be uh Noah Meadows, let's see. Thanks. I've heard of this brandly.

It was my first time coming since I was a boy scout, so that was a really borning meeting you more excited.

I have a statement.

Drag performances are a form of artistic expression that celebrate creativity, inclusivity, and self expression. The proposed ordinance claims to protect children, but it raises serious concerns about free speech and parental rights. I went to the drag performance. It was my first one I'd ever gone to this last this last summer.

It was fun.

I was there with my four children.

We go to Bartlesville schools. We live in this community. We go to the parks, and we also went to the drag performance.

It was a lot of fun.

They danced, they sang, we had some treats. There was a bounce house. It wasn't dangerous. Nobody was groomed. In fact, you could all look it up right now. See if you've ever found a case.

Of grooming at a drag event or anything crime.

Related at a drag event.

Kay, there's just not evidence for that.

It doesn't happen. So I am all four protecting children.

Like I said, I have four of them.

But this this proposal, Sorry I got off script, this proposal. I'm sorry, I don't have the I don't have it right up with me. It was basically saying that we're worried that maybe the kids would feel bad about themselves and get depressed if they saw a drag report performance. That's how I understood the reading, which I think is just pretty ridiculous. There's a lot of other things that

That could also cause a lot of.

Depression and anxiety regarding going to school. But nobody's talking about banning school. How do you, well, I guess some people are.

My point is there's a lot of things it could make somebody depressed, and going to a drag event, in my experience, is not one of them.

It was fun. My kids loved it.

We had a great time.

Everyone there was happy, face is painted, flamboyant outfits.

It was fun. Let me see if I have anything else. I see I have some extra time.

Restricting drag events harms our communities, cultural vibrancy, and local economy by chilling artistic expression and discouraging events that foster inclusivity.

I moved to Bartlesville on purpose.

I'm not from here.

I lived about an hour away and we were always coming to Bartlesville for events like the Christmas Parade and the u A Fun Fat the Summer SunFest. So we like Barnsville and we wanted to be a place where people can come, be happy, have fun. In my opinion, it's a great family activity to go to the drag event, and I want Bartlesville to stay a family.

Friendly place and allow.

Artistic expression.

Thank your people, Thank you, pry no One, n Noah, Noah met my name is Noa will Be and Franklin.

Yes, thank you.

I wanna introduce myself to you all. Some of you already know me, some of you may not. My father his name was Bernard Meadows, Bernie Meadows. He was a vibrant member of this community who spoke out often for many marginalized voices, and he showed up in many networking and nonprofit volunteer ways. And one thing that he did relentlessly was show up for queer youth in trans youth. I came out at the age of fifteen here in this town in twenty eleven, and I was scared, and

The first drag show.

I ever attended was actually at the Open Arms Youth Project, which is now defunct in Tulsa. It was one of the first spaces I ever got to exist in where I saw other people like me, and it helped me continue to fight to be in this life. To put it very succinctly, and sorry if it's too blunt for the city halls, but without seeing others like me, and without seeing the freedom of expression that people can enjoy and their self expression, I simply would not be here because I was incredibly suicidal.

And I think it's so important. I think it's so important that mean have these spaces.

Where p people can see people like them and rep I had prepared a whole like list of bullet points to to go back to, but I don't think I'm going to that right now. But also at the end of the day, drag has been around since sh Shakespeare's time, right, Drag has always been a form of.

Art that we have used and y I will say, back in Shakespeare's time it was.

Also probably used in very misogynistic ways because it was used to keep women out of theater for.

A while as well.

But now it is not exclusive to gender, it's not exclusive to sexuality, it's not exclusive to religion. It is something that anybody from any walk of life can find themselves in, and I think it's really important that we recognize that it's not this overarching bad experience where somebody could be roomed, because, let's be honest, you could.

Honestly, I was groomed.

By my straight mother, by my straight mother who brought strangers into the house, and no one was in drag.

No one was in drag, and I was still hard. She lost custody of me. But you know that is what that is.

I'm sorry going on, I didn't no one, no one.

She's speaking while people are speaking, is it clemmin rule. I believe that the mayor called for respect in this and respect me sitting quiet and while I'm just talk.

Thank you, thank you to them, and thank you for your time. I had a closing moment that I it's lost now, but thank you for your time. I believe that drag should be something that we should be able to experience and express. And I think that the youth should be able to see themselves and the adults because they are the ones who inherit the earth. They are the one who inherit this planet, and what we leave, we should leave it better than we've had it.

Thank you so much, thank you.

Thank you, and Franklin and after that both, uh, vere your bad?

What are your pretty?

Well?

Experien excited?

Oh excuse me?

Oh? Thank you? Cool?

Hello everyone, I hope you've all been staying warm. It's been pretty cold.

I've a Franklin, the founder and coorizer of Back Bartlesviil Accepting Community Coalition, where a support.

Network in Bartlesville, just trying to make sure people can find each other and have community.

And as we all, as we've all gathered here today, I'd.

Like us to take a moment to ask ourselves why what are we here to discuss? Really, like what clothes we're allowed to wear depending on our gender, or whether we're allowed to hold public gatherings. If not, everybody in our community would enjoy the entertainment. These questions have already been discussed and were answered two hundred and thirty four years ago with the First Amendment that includes the freedom of speech and assembly. So I ask the City.

Council to do your duty in protecting the First Comendment rights of all Barble School residents, regardless of their gender or sexual orientation, because.

Regulations on gender based stressed are unconstitutional, legally unenforceable, and only serve to divide us as the Barbascool City fumble Will Attorney has advised you attempting to van or regulate public drag performances will only result in costly legal.

Battles for the City of Barblesville, and that would be both a waste valuable financial resources that could better serve our community, but it would also further the negative national attention the city has already faced in the wake of its previous.

Attempts on a previous attacks on free speech.

There attempts to bar the to US LGBTQI plus community from using public spaces.

The nation is watching Bartlesville, and we're better than this.

We should be coming together on over common ground and working towards our community in.

General, and not squabbling on differences.

We can all share public spaces and just be together as a community.

So I ask that you protect our person in the rights and vote against any attempts to end or regularly drag in our city's public spaces.

Thank you for your time.

Thank you.

Jeh uh no a Volta beer mm and behind her will be Shuana and Shiuana Shauna. Shana Yeah, okay, Shana, very good.

Hello.

I'm Volta of the orphic sector of old query.

And I'm here today not to defend drag, but to highlight the reason it is being attact in the first place. One of the core characteristics of fascism is the need to simplify the world, to simplify the world past point of reality, to create a narrative equivalent to a children's picture book and its insights, Not one that would be read at a drag story hour, but one designed as

But for what purpose?

We cannot take them at their word. That much has been true as long as their thought pattern has had a name, So we turn to a material analysis. Fascism as a system arises in times of economic decline, when the well of colonial spoils runs dry. In these times, the hegemonic structures of power are vulnerable to be overtaken

Promised to us.

Nobody could buy a house. The vast majority are one of two miss paychecks away from homelessness. The meritocracy melts away as the brightest, the hardest working who are out on the street and are out on the street, and the highest offices are occupied those who were by those who were born into the upper class, many of which who have never broken sweat and work, have never broken ground and intellectual thinking. Like Elon Musk. People are angry.

They have not and will not ever meet.

But that knowledge is dangerous to hegemonic power. To be able to describe the shape of our exploitation is to be able to deconstruct it, to turn it over, to discard it, and so the blame is shifted. For Germany, it was the anarchist, the communists, the socialists, the queer, the Romani, and of course the Jewish. The specific idea of the enemy is not so important as there is one one that does not have the societal political power

The world is compressed into a narrative. It is not the system we live under that is broken.

It will work exactly as intended, and you will flourish so long as we defeat our enemy. Mouthpieces for this story are a plenty, but so are its internal inconsistencies, failures, it's fractured foundational breakages.

Fascism is an ideology of complete collapse.

So walking blindfolded into apocalypse, whooping and hollering about eradicating its manufactured enemy. To the fascists in this room. You may not understand you are a fascist because you are never educated.

On what the word means.

But you are incontrovertibly a fascist. Your ideology will inevitably fail. You still have time to question it and not doom yourself to be ridiculed in the pages of history. Hanging around with your good friend Mussolini. O, thank you, thank you, Thank you.

La in the doorway behind her, and will be Jim Henley behind.

I am a homeowner downtown Bartlesville. We moved here with the greatest optimism. We were looking for a community of people that believed in things that were valuable to us. We came for the one hundred Miles sale, and we came here for every street we had the downtown Fourth of July Fest.

It was incredible.

We came to pride.

I would want to start I was.

I have been in some form of ministry since I was eleven years old, and I want to thank each and every one of you for the service that you give our community for safety and doing your very best.

It's hard to know what to do.

It's even harder to know that we don't know what is the right thing for everyone to keep us all safe.

I learned from a three year old child.

I was in ministry, very fundamentalist, and I I have lived for three things, my family, my community, and my God.

And I learned from a three year old in a very awkward Christmas dinner.

Of course, all of my family are hunters, were all in camouflage and everybody's ready to do the after Christmas hunt. And my brother that is an openly a man brought his partner with them and as we were preparing the meal, he was.

Male presenting and we love this man.

Greatest thing came to dinner in full drag and I was a brand new moment and a pastor in a very very small western Kansas town. I saw this child change the heart of an entire table with a softness of heart. And what it came through was questions and understanding and an open heart willing to understand something that didn't make sense.

We had an entire.

Table, a very conservative thought learning from a child, and I ask you, and I beg each and every one of you.

To find the people that need a voice. Each of you signed up for this.

Job to do right by our our community, and there is an entire section that is being left out.

Please protect our culture. Drag is what keeps us alive.

We have queer kids over the entire city of Bartlesville that are too scared to exist. And if you make a change for us, if you make a change and say that this is something important, just like you would at a powow, if you take the bell dresses out, is that.

Powow as beautiful?

No, it's not.

Drag needs to stay. Needs to stay because we need a place.

To be who we are, and those babies as they're coming up need to see what it is to be proud of whatever identity that you're born with.

I thank you for your time, you all, and I thank you for your.

Diligence and your commitment to finding an answer and opening this up for our community.

You guys matter, conservative or not, and it is time and we get this crap out of the way so that we.

Can support each other as neighbors because we are one Bartlesville, and we can't break off in pieces because that's when we're weak, that's when our community is less effective. Thank you for your time, guys. I appreciate you, and thank you for letting us all have space to talk. I know it is hard to be here and I know you guys are showing up for the job every day. Thank you for keeping us safe. Thank you for fighting for our rights, and please protect drive for our community.

They appreciate your God.

Thank you telling UH Jim Henley and after that Mr Raver oh M.

Henley and said, I'm gonna do it in Martinville. I guess I'm gonna have to up set that before.

B I B L E.

Basic construction before leave me nerves. We know from UH first grade through sixty nine talk about the people that went a lot Inherent Kingdom of God, Coornericaters, the Bilers and reverence, and you go go one to say they have family. If you listen in the dictionary that as a male or female traits is you're ona be twenty two five. God says a man shall a lot wear females clothes. Females, of course, you shall not wear men's clothes.

If you do.

It's an abomination under your board nomination and dictionary. One of 'em is extreme hatreds the preachers and preach and congregations and thebody else that just stuff is all right, God says again, you shall not inherit the king. It says that anybody that practice abomination aligned or shall not inherit. You go home and say that all liars shall have

Now, this stuff is all unforgivable.

It's not.

It's not the unforgivable sin.

If you have a choice.

This lady here said, well, we don't know what's right and what's wrong. Well, that's why the five are basically construction for leaving the others. It tells you exactly what it is. And God also gives their warnings. And Zebral three eighteen he says that if I see somebody in their sin.

Or that were wicked, and this stuff is wicked, that's what God says.

Not me, what God says.

And and you do not burn them and they die, their blood will be on your hands.

Now there, you do want them to die, you're covered.

And even Zebral two bus verse five and seven and three eleven say tell 'em whether they listen or not, just remember.

When you can done what God condemns you. Just thank thank you, thank you for telling very good.

Mister Raven. And after that will be uh, Devin Williams.

Mayor members of the council, Joel the malicious liar according to your city at Trinity. He's smiling, he thinks it's funny.

Uh.

By the way, surprise, we have a new federal government. In case anyone missed it, So why don't you guys try to get over it. Although you must have known there would be an overcapacity crowd for this meeting tonight, you chose instead to have this meeting in this small room. There are now a lot of people in the council room next door.

Got a count on it. There are a lot.

Could that be.

Because you probably would have had to televise this meeting if it was held in the big council room, sort of like the public had no idea. Yeah, the city attorney would make a major one hour PowerPoint presentation on drag queen shows at the council's December fifth orientation meeting or incoming council members.

How woke?

And how about telling the people who were here wearing masks to take them off?

Alright, you guys have a good evening. Thanks, thanks, Oh no.

Clapping, amazing, right, thank you, jel welcomes Devin Williams.

And after mister Williams his homer Neppington.

Alright, I'm Devin Williams. They he uh, I wanna say this about this word? That's uh, it's silly, alright, and you were all a bunch of silly east then even cealier flog.

H.

Bartlesville is saturated with a vacant kind of apathy, a vicious denial that glorifies self deception. This my asthma of respectability in this small town provides a pungent smoke screen for the idyllic white mediocrity that is the Bartlesville City Council.

This apathy submits.

To a delusion of grandeur, of fiction that Bartlesville is anything less than.

An American nightmare. I feel the best representation of Bartlesville or the.

Circumstances of April sixteenth through the seventeenth, twenty twenty four, that occurred at the Hillcrest Country Club on this day, little Liam Rowland, an autistic child, drowned in.

A golf course water trap.

This tragedy represents a systemic act of abuse, where the most vulnerable people in this community drowned in polluted waters dug up by privileged white men and women so they can play meaningless games with the existences.

Of us oppress. If you, we all will be held accountable.

Bartlesville is white, Sir Francis, Bartlesville is queer folding.

Barblesville is capitalistic. Barblesville is America.

Homer Neppington, and after Homer Nepington is uh, Reverend Tammy Schmidt.

Think any even counsel?

Where's administrators? Magistrates? I also live in Barblesville.

I'm a believer, confessing Christian, and I'm here as a contender as.

Or all of us.

I have been involved in this effort for quite a few years beyond what I ventured into a year in marbles.

My granddaughter, their identity is now different.

She's of the LGBTQ plus belief.

Yeah. She has also encountered numerous hardships.

I stand as a man sometimes called a toxic male, but I have raised a family, and I've been in debris fields.

I've been in battlefields from.

California to the Philippines. I've seen cultural divisiveness. And let me just say, when everyone talks about love, it has more facets. Are you talking about eros? Are you talking about a gopy? Or are you talking about falo? Are you talking about storegame. It's kind of like nowadays we're seeing cultural trends determine what it's legal, lawful, defining spirital of law, later the law. I looked at the minutes from Bartlesville's council meeting in October last year.

Now I want to touch upon a monetary direction.

Mister Bailey looked at ways and this was presented to you, how to recover costs from one pride event.

I think the last one was thirty thousand dollars.

If I read the Barbelsville publication correctly, thereabouts in my budget.

I mean, that would be terrific.

I wish I could so.

Thirty thousand dollars has nothing to sneeze that. Now we just sell from a different philosophical perspective. Martin Luther King. We just celebrated, right. One of most famous quotes is you cannot legislate morality, but you can regulate behavior. So I'm here as an advocate, being intellectually honest, as a Christian and as a citizen. Which trends are we gonna follow? Or do we table this until after legislation in Oklahoma

Thank you, Reverend Tammy Schmidt, and behind her will be Brandon Wade.

My name's Reverend Tammy Schmidt, and I have served as a chaplain.

For many years in hospitals and veteran centers, and one kind one phrase really caught my attention. In your prayer, it said the good of the community. May I ask whose community? Do you mean the ones who voted you in? Do you mean the ones who look like you think like you do you mean the ones who are surround that surround you here today? Whose community are you speaking of? I'm curious the ones that often are in power tend

For the right reasons.

So let me ask each and.

Every one of you as we talk about this coup, this subject, which is very nuanced, have you been to a direct show so you may not even know what it is that you're talking about. Here, there have been several people talking about what a freedom it is to express themselves.

In a way that is life giving to them, and that is beautiful.

I also wonder at times when people choose these matters, this matter of the LGBTQ community, I'm curious why that one, because there are so many other issues that need your attention. I'm not saying that this is not important, but out of all of the hundreds, no, no thousands of things that really are important, like when it is cold outside and people who have no homes have no place to go, and yet churches do not open their buildings, I wonder

On lgbtqq uh issues.

So let's do so, but let's recognize them as people, as individuals who are deserving of a voice, specifically the deserving of an opportunity to express themselves in ways that are beautiful. Misunderstood perhaps, but then again, not everybody understands what the hell Christians do either cool and why they think the way they do. So, as I end and I recognize my time is up, I also am in dressed in full drag HM.

I'd also like to remind Itch and.

Every one of you that there are bigger threats from this community as clergy than there are from drag queens. Statistically speaking, our children have much more to gain or lose, I should say in that, so let us be real and statistically speaking, let us make sure that the harm we are spreading, let us make sure that we are attacking the.

Right people and not the LGBTQ community.

Thank you mister Brandon Wade, and after that Rebecca Renthow pro.

Well.

Uh, good evening ladies and gentlemen, and thank you Barshool City Council for having us ault here to discuss this issue. I normally don't read off of something, but I've prepared some of someone try to read.

From it, prepare with me as they just stumbled through it.

But ask to in here before you address the issue.

That not only reflects our community values but also significantly in implications for our city's future.

The proposed ban on drag shows is an issue that.

Warrants a serious consideration and for all you guys on City Council, you guys have a very important job to do here with this consideration, and thank you for what.

You do, and I respect you all for what you did.

With that being said, in regards to this, I want to highlight the important aspects that go beyond the personal opinions and of banning. By banning these events, we expose our seats offend potential UH litigation which could lead to.

Costly battles that all ultimately burden the tax payers. We must be.

Mindful that funding hate and discrimination not only undermines the community values, but also risk financial strains.

On our citizens.

It is crucial that we focus on initiatives that promote unity and inclusion rather than those that.

Could divide us and lead to unnecessary expenses.

While we discuss this issue, we cannot afford to ignore the real problems that face our communities. And we've heard some of those today brought up by a citizens, which would be the homelessness that's in our city and also the fact of water supply to.

Our city and clean water.

Those are issues that.

Need to be addressed and our challenges that demand immediate attention and resources. Is imperative that we prioritize solutions that directly improve the quality of life for all residents rather than diverting our focus and cause.

Division amongst us consideration.

In conclusion, i'd like to say, let us not close the doors on creativity an unnecessary division within our community. Instead, we should strive to foster an environment of inclusiveness and support while addressing the urgent issues that truly matter. I urge you to reconsider anything on this decision that will affect the city of Barsville and our tack payer dollars and make a decision that doesn't affect everybody. I heard earlier also comments.

About the risk of violence and hate that come with these events.

And I've attended these events and its family orientated for the most part of all the event, even with the drag show later in the evenings, I've seen nothing that is undermining children being there that.

They not appropriate.

See.

I think of the show Missus Dollfire in the movie and came out back in ninety three. I believe Missus Doullfire raised over.

Four hundred and forty million the box office A lot of us probably had as a child.

I watched it to a lot of parents, I imagine.

Allowed their children to watch that show, and that did not have a direct effect on our children. And if your parents a being parents, and myself being a parent, if I was offended by those kind of things and did not want my child to be at that, then I would be a parent and I would not allow my child to be at that.

Uh So, please take those things in consideration and thank you for your time. I appreciate y'all.

Good thank you, Rebecca Renfrow, and then Nicholas le May.

I'm Rebecca Renfrow. I am a Bordersville citizen. I do appreciate obviously a lot of people. What a great turnout to have so many people show their passion about wanting to know what's gonna happen in our community. And I appreciate you all happen in the workshops. I think it really shows that people do wanna be involved, and that's really well. Second, I wanna be on the record that I'm very passionate that we should be protective of our children.

So I really would appreciate as this.

Discussion involves some more clarification on that or or are we dancing and singing in costumes? When I went to the performances here, I did not see anything that I would fail offensive to to a child. Now, in our prayer we talked about, you know, our perspective.

And our values.

Is it my perspectives and my values or is it your perspectives and your values? And how who who wins in this conversation? And I think I'm not particularly fond of guns. My grandchild was holding my hand and there was an open carry right in her face.

How do you think I felt having to.

Deal with that?

It gave me to a point of conversation.

And I think anytime there's differences, we.

As parents.

Can use that opportunity to give our own values, to give our own perspectives.

Did that make if I see a gun?

Does that make me a murderer?

I'm a vegetarian because I'm a vegetarian I go to a restaurant and I ask, does it make everybody else or my child think they needed the children around me be a vegetarian. I think we really have to think hard about it. But I do appreciate the conversation, and I think we all we need to get better at conversation, whether it's in our homes, whether it's in our communities with everybody.

So thank you so much for this opportunity.

Thank you.

I think.

Nicholas the maid, and after Nicholas will be Michelle Larkin.

An act of creation is an act of divinity. That there's a holy sacrament in my faith. And so to all those who make.

Of their mode of dress such a sacrament, I say, you have no need of my blessing. But bless you, my children, for wearing your divinity with such courage and pride. Much has been made of what we teach our children. Let us teach them that we in trine freedom over censorship and joy over fear. From inspiration to creation, May the wheel unbroken urn within us.

All amen, thank you for your time, Thank you for treating much.

Michelle markin and after that will be Sean Barker.

Hello, everybody, my name is Michelle Larkin. I am the co founder of Bartlesville Area Pagans. I know what discriminatory is, hm, I know how it feels. I am representing my family, my friends, my loved ones.

In just a heart felt.

Let's look at our hearts that you use the love God gave you and the Goddess gave me.

To share our time, our space, our love, our freedom, our rights, all the things that we have in this wonderful country we call America, we need to share them.

We need to know that we're all humans. We need to know that we all have love. Are we all perfect?

No?

Did we all do things that we need to check ourselves for?

Yes, we all do, all of us, even all of you, even me.

But what have we got as humans?

We have compassion, we have time, we have presence, we have energy, we have love, and we have light.

Let's use some of this in deciding what we're gonna do about this situation. My step son in law, Josie Lee Terrell, who is a famous drag queen y and hosts the events here.

The first one was beautiful. The second one I did not attend.

I was out of town.

This last one I was here with my family, with my loved ones, with my friends. We held uh a booth for the Barblesville area.

Higgins.

We were judged, we were criticized, we were told we were hated. Let's not hate, eight Let's love. Let's be kind and caring. And thank you all, each one of you at this table for your time for letting us speak and sharing our hearts with you.

Blessed be thank you, Thank you, Sean Barker. And after that, Rachelle Hip read the last name, and she'll be our last speaker. After mister Barker go to is it right here?

For alright?

It well, good evening with her Maryor and council city staff. Uh, thank you for holding the workshop to discuss this very important community matter. Drag queen shows may not be legally considered an adult entertainment, but common sense would suggest that it is and it is not appropriate for children to be exposed to it. With common sense being restored at the federal level, maybe this will finally be resolved at

We need to protect them from drag queen shows.

There is absolutely nothing family friendly about a drag queen show.

They are all sexual by definition. This is not about LBGTQ rights.

Bartlesville is a very welcoming and accommodating community for LBGTQ, including my own viewpoints.

On those issues.

This is not about being welcoming and accommodating to LBGTQ.

This is about protecting children from powerful and inappropriate adult content. I understand that the concern is we will spend a lot of time in legal fees and a lot of money in legal fees in order to protect these children in court, and we may lose.

I think personally that would be a tremendous investment for us to make.

In our children.

One hundred thousand or two hundred thousand dollars and the thirty six million dollar budget is a rounding error, and I think we should make that an investment. We've had a very large and vocal group of drag queen supporters here tonight. However, we know from the last city council elections and the petition they had over three thousand signatures that the vast majority of Bartlesville people do not want drag queen shows in public parks or outdoors where.

Kids can be exposed to it.

I hope that the city Council and the city manager and the staff will protect these children and do the will of the vast majority.

Of Bartons who did not show up here tonight.

I'm very disappointed in our community for all the people who feel this way. They did not show up tonight, and instead we had a litany of people come across with one viewpoint. I hope the city Council does not forget that the vast majority of Bartlesville people do not want these.

During queen shows and they are in their unity. Thank you for giving me some time tonight.

Thank you, Thank you much Sport for lass speaker reach.

How do you say, grele great, yeah, very good, pretious.

I am a mental health professional licensed in the state of Oklahoma for about eighteen years, and there were just a couple things I wanted to address and thank you

And I think what kids really need.

Is love and compassion and acceptance.

There's an absence of community with a lot of kids that don't fit in the box, and so I just wanted to UH mention.

That team all.

I appreciate your time, thank you appulating.

UH a little last question, I did everybody get to speak to one of you to speak? I appreciate uh everybody's comments tonight. I appreci I certainly appreciate the civility of the conversation tonight. We've got a lot of good comments tonight, and UH appreciate everybody getting here tonight. We're gonna work through our agenda here and UH have our discussion. You're welcome to stay and listening. So we'll move on to UH item number five, discussion about possible regulations related

So obviously this has been a discussion that's gone on for for quite a while.

Uh.

And I know that uh, well, two of our council members are here and I have have talked about this a lot, have been present for a lot of presentation.

Uh.

But I know that all four of you were uh present for a presentation by mister can at the council orientation, and so.

We were not Staff does not have a presentation for tonight. So I think that's the main point is that this wasn't intended for you to hear us.

You've heard us, We've spoken, Mister Kane has given you his opinion he today's presentation. So this really is an opportunity for the council to talk to each other about this. And these are rare opportunities because the only time the council gets to talk to each other is in a council meeting, and when we have a meeting in the other room, we're talking to the people out there, and when we have it in this room, you get an opportunity to talk to each other.

So that really was the focus of tonight.

After the orientation, I met with each of you individually to ask how you'd like to proceed. Everyone was in favor of the idea of having a workshop so that we could have this conversation amongst yourselves.

And I appreciate over the last week.

I know mister east Us has submitted a number of questions to mister Kane and I, so he'll be ready to answer any of those that you'd like to discuss tonight.

Mister Kirkpatrick, I know you have admitted a couple.

Of things for consideration tonight. UH, So we appreciate having all of that information in advance. That's all that we've received up to this point. So I don't know if there was other things that anyone else wants to talk about, but I know that mister Kane this is this is definitely more his area than mine, and and he is he is prepared to address any questions that you're on that. Uh And with that, Mayor, I will kick it back over to you. As I said, this is truly just a council agendi.

Should we pass this speaker about that Mike's fund back then here, let's put that for the sake of the our friends in the other room.

Yes, thanks for bringing that up. And so as you all have seen your packet, I think mister Kirkpatrick has put a lot of time and effort into a couple of those that's bringing forth tonight. We're not gonna act on anything tonight. We're just gonna discuss it then uh if it comes forward, and later at a later date, we'll u uh see what comes out of this meeting night. So this is discussion purpose only, and I'm just gonna ask mister Kirkpatrick to feel say in on some of your thoughts tonight.

Okay, Well, I wanna start by saying thank you to everybody who spoke this evening, who shared their thoughts, their viewpoints and clearly a lot of passion, and for eybody who came both in this room in the overflow room. I guess two months ago, when Mike asked about doing workshops, I thought this was gonna be a conversation between five city council members and a few city staff. You know, silly man didn't realise we're gonna be sitting in the middle of the fish bowl. But with that in mind,

I got quoted once.

I don't know I've ever had a prayer quote before, but I have the prayer quoted said, which community that is the right question?

It is our community.

It's every single one of us, every single person that lives in Barnesville. And I have had the extreme honor of getting to talk to so many people I've got to be pushed in two thousand now, since maybe August, and getting to hear lots of different opinions and different perspectives, very deeply held convictions and emotions as we have heard here in other city council meetings, and frankly most of

For instance, I have not talked.

To anybody yet who doesn't believe in the individual dignity of every person in our community, disagreement in some very These are the people I've talked to, right, which says to me that when we hear about people getting death threats, and there have been people on both sides of this thing who have received death threats, people have had to park in their friends driveways or on their street, We've had to up police surveillance because people are getting threatened

The nitty gritty of this comes when.

We start to ask the question who gets to decide what's healthy, who gets to decide what's safe? How do we define those things because we start with different values or some different definitions there. So I tell you all of that not to make a speech, but because that is the context within which I'm going to talk about this ordinance here, which is just a proposal.

It is a supposed to be.

A conversation starter. It is important, beyond important that anything we do is within the confines of the law, and we are grateful for over two hundred years of history that have explained what that law is, what it entails.

Just held a.

Masterclass in December read us the Riot Act did everything but throw us in jail, and I was glad that he was on our side at the end of that thing. And the message that I heard loud and clear was you don't ban drag because that's a violation of freedom

We'll see you in court.

You'll notice, those of you who have read it, this ordinance is not about drag.

Drag brought it up in our community, brought it up.

But it's not a question of are we trying to ban a specific thing. If it is that, then we are honing in on a piece of our community, a part of our community that feels very targeted. And because it is difficult for us to decide whose values win, the reason you have the first Amendment. You need some

So.

What I have suggested here.

Is that if there is an ordinance to do, if you guys like it, you know, if we think it's valid, if legal counsel thinks, if whatever is to consider anything in everything that the lens of public of children's health for the sole reason that that is what the Supreme Court has said the government is supposed to do.

Now, there are people who don't like that.

What I suggest it also is that we have a separate board that has medical and mental health professionals on it who can tell us, based on the scientific literature, the best medical literature, what it says about this and if any specific activity is going to have long term negative health effects for our kids. If you believe that, whatever you're into, and I know there's a lot of all the talks about drag right now. Okay, but this

Then if you believe that any and all of those have no negative.

Health effects on kids, then there is no risk to disordinance. Like the biggest risk is that we waste five volunteers time. And if there is possible risk, then it should be provable based on evidence, not based on the opinions of people who disagree over values and worldviews. Even so, the

Making this suggestion.

I don't know another way to have legitimate conversations about children's health suit to take it out of this I said, I said back in the campaign season. I think my opinion, not medical science, that body dysphoria and cigarette ads.

Have a lot in common. That's my.

You know, legal hypothesis with no legal experience.

With cigarettes.

What you had was one side saying these are really dangerous for kids, on the other side saying this is just fine. And it took a long time for the medical science to finally break through where the court got involved and said, okay, we see one side over the other. I will be the first to say this is slow. But it can't just be in the hands of the vested parties one way or the other just to make arbitrary decisions when speech is involved. It mustn't be.

This is the only way I know to create a referee.

Is the only way I could figure out to create a referee. So if your kids feel unsafe in this community, hear you, and their safety matters equally valuable to every other child in this community, no matter where. I well, I don't want to get too personal. When I say our community, I mean every man, woman, and child that live in this community. Understanding this is incredibly hot topic.

Yeah, I read it. I think, Uh, it hits all the topics you talk about. It doesn't.

It doesn't specifically name anything or call anybody out it talks about children and health.

I don't know. Of course, I'm not an attorney, so I I can't give you the legal opinion on it.

We do have a very good city attorney who gave us a lot of information at orientation, so I you know, I would probably ask uh to get some way in there.

What you know constitutionally how this plays.

Uh.

I know there's a couple of cases that I think are more recent, maybe since the orientation that uh has to do with the health and preservation of health, which was I think West West Texas A and M. And then there was a case in Tennessee and and I've read up on 'em. But again, not a not an attorney, and I know you are.

You're good at your job, so I'll I'll let you uh weigh in on those things.

Thanks a lot.

Uh.

Yes, Uh, this this is not intended to be my show. You've all heard the result of my two years of research on this topic.

UH.

And you've also heard me freely admit that I'm not an expert in these matters, not a First Amendment scholar. I've never tried a First Amendment case.

Uh.

I'm a a small town lawyer who happens to have represented municipalities for fifteen years, and uh, this.

Was never on my BIGO card.

So you can take what I say with a grain of salt and you're not going to offend me at all. Counselor Kirkpatrick, I I wanna pay you a compliment. Politics is is not my job. My job is to give you correct legal advice. But I believe you campaigned on being an out of the box thinker. I think you've delivered on that promise. I'm never seen anything like this. In two years of following the cases that are making their way through the core system, I have not seen

This would play out.

I have a few thoughts that I'm willing to share with you, as long as you promise not to quote me, because this just hasn't been tried. You've mentioned Council in Dorsey, the Tennessee case. I think you're referring to friends of George's v.

Mulroy.

Correct, Yes, sir, sorry, that is.

I get a lot of.

Questions about that because people don't understand the procedural posture of that case, which is that was actually the very first case that was discussed in my very first presentation to this Council UH And in that case, the State of Tennessee passed law that that banned or restricted drag that was immediately challenged by a local drag performance troupe called Friends of George's, and the district court immediately entered a temporary restraining order restraining the State of Tennessee from

That's not the case.

What, in fact, what the Sixth Circuit ruled is is that the State of Tennessee never even tried to enforce the law against Friends of Georgie's, had no intention of enforcing the law, hadn't threatened to enforce the law, and that in fact, based on the facts that were alleged by Friends of George's, they would not have been in violation of the law. They could have as many drag shows as they wanted, and they would not have violated

Have not been ruled upon by the Sixth Circuit.

They are in the only outstanding district court ruling on the constitutionality of that law. They were not disturbed by the ruling of the sixth Circuit, and they are are findings that still need to be considered. That is is that the law is inherently unconstitutional if it was applied against a group.

That actually intended to violate the law.

So the applicability here to what Councilman Kirkpatrick has presented is is that I think what he has presented, or what he has proposed, would make it very difficult for an outside group to establish standing. Until this committee actually voted to cancel a show, cract show, or or whatever,

UH.

And and again in Friends of George's UH, based on the the the UH uncontroverted facts of the case. UH, Friends of George's was not in violation of the Tennessee law and hadn't even been UH threatened with with UH prosecution. So in in in this instance what Councilor Kirkpatrick has proposed, UH, there could be no standing until.

Something is actually done.

And so I think that is an is an interesting aspect of what you have proposed. The other case, UH, mister Dorsey, that that UH you mentioned was the West Texas A and M University case. I did mention that in in my UH presentation of the Council in December.

UH.

That is is available online for anybody that wants to watch it, and I'm happy to provide my re PowerPoint presentation to anybody that wants to see it. The difference in the West Texas A and N case is that is and why it's different from here is that uh. That is is what is is called by the judge in UH in the district court as a a campus case, which is that it's it's generally understood that students, uh do not have full control over their First Amendment rights

So UH.

That is, by the way, and UH, that is.

The reason I presented that case in my presentation, UH, and I've been following it is cause it is the only case that I'm aware of in which a drag regulation uh was was passed or in this case, institute by a university president that wasn't immediately restrained by the district court. It's the only it's it's an outlier. It's the only case that I'm aware of that hasn't resulted

So and I know you kind of touched on those in the orientation. Thanks for some summarizing them again. I think the reason I'm asking is because that's I think we are all talking to people in the community, and we're you know, whether you're one side of the issue or the other, and those seem to be the cases that you're thrown out to me the most.

Well, what about this case?

What people concentrate and I can try to.

Talk through it that you know, again, probably don't do that near the justice up.

People want to concentrate on the case that says what they wanted to say, and they want to ignore all the other cases.

What I've tried to do for the last two years, since this council.

Told me to follow this stuff, is I follow all other cases and I have have consistently tried to update this discouncil anything anytime there is as a ruling, regardless.

Of which way it's gone.

And the reality is is that most of these cases have immediately resulted in the regulation being being restrained or overturned as unconstitutional.

Why do you guys think.

This issue, specifically the drag show, Why do you think from the conversations y'all are having, why is this treated so differently than so many other disagreements in our community? Because in the conversation I'm having. It is a lot of a lot of live and let live. Like there's been a lot of.

You know, we do.

There's lots of different groups with different opinions, different ideas, different you know, disagreements or whatever, and we're fairly las fair about it everything. But this has become like the flashpoint where people have really dug in.

As y'all have talked to people.

What makes this different than some of the other issues or disagreements that we have had.

What are people telling you?

Well, at least initially whenever that was it? When was the first show twenty two, twenty two? I think that one was when the big hup of was because there was a lot of pictures and things that surfaced from it. Based on those, you know, it would appear like that it was more adult theme. Since that time, I think last year, maybe even this year, there was pictures, videos and that kind of thing.

I don't think it.

I think it differed from the shows, and I think that a lot of the residents that that had brought attention to this whole issue with me has been then the difference in the narrative of what happened and when and so and.

I I agree with you.

I think we have to.

Have people weigh in that have the true data and the statistics about you know, mental health and this and that and and that's the only way we can come to I think, get everybody to come to an agreement or come together as one and figure out really what we can or.

Can or shitt what?

What?

What about you guys? What'd go?

I just think the veracity of the protests that we had after that is what on a community scale, heightened it And as just said earlier today, and that when HBO came to town, it just brought it to a whole other level.

Uh.

It could well have been something we might have worked out in the community over a period of time. Uh, we had some good discourse with members of the Pride community here m and within a short period of time of that, uh, that kind of went away. So we're we're left with this remaining remnant of of Uh, this difficult discourse we went through a couple of years ago, and it certainly calmed down since then, and tonight was

And I think, uh, just for us a little uh really representative of a very conservative community, deeply held uh deeply held moral convictions that I feel like you knows, as you've brought out here in your proposal or harm to children, and I think, uh, that's one of the big concerns, and that's that's what I've heard in talking with.

People, so.

You know, and I you know, I I I do wanna speak as you you did a little bit.

To this as well.

I mean, I it it saddens me that I anybody does not feel safe or feels threatened uh in their life and their property, whatever their person, and that absolutely is wrong.

Regardless of where.

You stand on on this issue, we do need to be loving and accepting of people, uh, even when we don't agree with their lifestyle or uh other choices.

That they make.

So s one of the one of the things that I feel, I mean pretty deeply in a place like Bartles but we see all over.

The country that.

Many many people invoke Jesus on their side when those sides vehemently disagree with each other. And what we're not trying to do is be in the is being the the place of regulating or choosing, but you know, being the referee between people's religious.

Convictions, right.

And I mean, I'm I'm a I'm a pastor about as conservative as they come. But I'm not called to be everybody in here's pastor if you're not part of my church.

Uh.

And so one of the challenges we have here is that the first amendment we always talk about is to speak against government and all tyranny and all that, and that's true, but it was also to protect people from state sponsored churches, and so because that's where all these people came from. It's places where we're told you have to be this. You know, literally, these people have just come across the ocean after getting slaughtered by other people

So we've had pay and speak, we've had you.

Know, people from different perspectives and so, but if we want this to be a community thing, if the heat got turned up when we're trying to turn the heat down so that our kids are seeing an example of a community that can disagree but can still move forward together, then we have to find some kind of a standard

And basically agreed to have referees.

There's a case going through They just went through the Supreme Court. I was hoping, Jess, you might share a little bit about because my argument is about children's health. There was I believe a case that was seen by the Supreme Court in December where that it was the main part of the argument there the logic, uh, of the of the law.

I'm' share a little bit about that, yes, and I appreciate you uh uh giving me a heads up about this.

Uh.

I feel like my my law school days were being called.

I'm a professor to.

Brief the case that we're s was to talk about today, UH this case that that uh uh that you interadents or is uh uh scurmetti uh us versus scurmetti uh, which has commonly been referred to in the press as as the Tennessee gender affirming care ban.

UH.

Tennessee passed UH law banning certain types of UH gender affirming care, and that was challenged by uh uh the parents of miners UH who presumably wanted to participate in that sort of sort of care. I think what you're interested in, councilor Kirkpatrick, is the the discussion of the

Uh.

The Supreme Court decides questions, not cases.

UH.

So it is the question that is the most.

Important part of any Supreme Court game. Those questions present a Fourth Amendment equal protection argument.

UH.

The uh the challengers of the Tennessee law argued that they were being denied care based on their sex.

Uh.

The state of Tennessee has has has countered and said no, we are banning this type of care for everyone, regardless of their sex.

Uh.

And that i ah appeared from the questioning that took place at the Supreme Court.

To be where the court is going to land.

The majority of justices UH agreed that that uh, it's not a question of what sex you are, It's a question of whether or not you are seeking care that is banned, and the government participates in the big banning of care all the time. Are all sorts of drugs uh uh that that uh are banned as unreasonably dangerous as all sorts of UH licensing requirements for for medical care. So it is not unheard of at all for the

UH.

The those who challenge the law said that, well, we should have the right to make these decisions for our children.

UH.

Substantive due process are are unenumerated rights rights that aren't specifically UH in the Constitution, and the Supreme Court has found that one of those is parental rights, which, interestingly enough, UH is is one of the issues in in this discussion. But in in this case, the question is is there a substance a due process right to receive this type of care?

Uh?

The Sixth Circuit said no, UH, you don't have a a right to receive this particular type of care. Again, governments are often in the business of prohibiting certain types of drugs, certain type of of medical practice without licensure all sorts of things like that. So I I it appears I I'd hate to go on record and and UH prove be proven wrong, but it appears that that case has a very very high chance or that law rather has a very very high chance of UH being

UH.

That is is that it's they are so vague that you can't tell UH at what point you your address is so effeminate that you are now in drag and violating the law.

UH.

And those are the issues that that have made UH. The First Amendment issue and the Fifth Amendment vagueness issue are are what have caused problems for states and municipalities.

That have attempted to ban drag. So I think we have two.

Different cases, two different issues. There are the there there is the potential for there to be some some discussion by the Spring Court, and and that case has been argued, and I they're the Spring Court, they can do what they want.

UH.

They're gonna rule when.

They decide to rule.

UH.

But there's some potential that that that case, when it comes down, could have some directive on on what type of of care represents UH an unreasonable risk to miners UH. And I think that where the court will come down there is UH. And there's some some good discussion in

UH risks UH.

And so so what the State of Tennessee argued is is that if when you don't have certainty in those areas, UH, the court has a duty to restrain itself to not enter a space that that isn't isn't certain, to leave that to the political process. And so for that reason, I think it's it's highly likely that this case, that law in Tennessee ends.

Up getting affirmed.

If it does, there may be some interesting discussion in it about exactly what level of risk is acceptable for children.

Thank you. I don't know what an A plus looks like, so we'll give you a B plus. We'll do better next time. I appreciate that was that was on very short notice. The parts of those arguments. I haven't read the case. I just listened to the some of the arguments.

But as it hones in on children's health, it will be interesting to see if the Supreme Court discusses that. And that's germane to this topic because it is the health stuff that we're honing in on. Personally, I mean, I wanted to put I've I've kicked these ideas around.

We talked about them with the first workshop that we did.

I thought it was worth putting out there so that y'all could see them because we actually get to meet talk.

And so that the community could see them.

I want to hear y'all's feedback as well. My suggestion would be that we kind of wait and see what the Supreme Court comes back and says with some of this kind of stuff, Cause they come back and say, hey, all, this is there's no health risk associated with any of this stuff.

There's nothing we should worry about.

Then.

I mean, it still would be wise of us to consider children's health, but the Supreme Court would have told us, at least in one area, what that looks like. At the same time, I would really like to hear from our community. It's one thing to say, hey, I don't.

Like this proposal.

It's another thing to say I don't like it, and here's why. I would love to hear the why. Because I wrote I came up with these drafts after talking to thousands of our neighbors in Bartlesville, from across the political spectrum, from across the ideological spectrum, from across the conviction spectrum, trying to find a way that was sensitive

So just saying well, you know, I don't like it.

Okay, fair enough, if you're entitled your opinion. But if you say I don't like it, here's why, then that will help us be a city council in this community in a better way.

Well, I agree. I think may occurred had on something.

You know, there was an agreement that was reached, and that was because all parties came to the table and had civil discourse and trying to figure out, Hey, what's good for everybody? What, what do we want to do, what do we want to you know, how do we want to precede this community?

Which I think we did.

And then there was another as you stated, there was another heightened emotion here and there, and it got back to the same as it was initially.

So I think hopefully, you know, I like, did you put this together?

You've got a lot of thought and energy, and uh, hopefully we can get just that as as further feedback from the community.

Why the the the why not.

Just from the vagueness issue. When does that come into play for a court ruling? Is that after the law is adopted and contested or just after it's.

Adopted, so that uh, the the answer is is is when it is challenged in court.

Uh.

And the Fifth Amendment vagueness argument has been made and virtually all of the cases that I've been following it, it's kind of three or four bullet points down the list usually of of the things that the court hit on.

Uh, but it is a major issue.

Uh.

We've had discussions in this community ourselves trying to understand was what happened this or was it that? And people can't even can't even agree on that.

Uh.

Uh just just hear to not people say that this is a wonderful family of friendly event.

Uh and other people say it's an absolute abomination.

Uh.

We can't even agree on that. How do you define that?

Uh?

And that goes famously to the to the Supreme Court that was an unable to uh define pornography. The Supreme Court Justice White, I believe, said, Uh, I don't know, I can't define it, but I can I know I see it. It's when we have a a similar situation here where people you can't define drag, but you don't but you know it when you see it. Well, that leads to the vagueness issue. At what point does a person know w at what point are they unnoticed that this conduct will get me in trouble.

With the law?

So just I so if this just say this was adopted and who rode in as an ordinance? And would we have to enforce it to get somebody to filed against it? Or would they be ruled against, just like the Friends of George that they didn't have standing to contest it.

If if you passed this at at your next regular meeting, I don't think that anybody could establish standing to suit because, uh it it quite clearly doesn't apply until.

This committee says it applies.

Uh.

Once a committee says it applies and cancels a show.

You're gonna get supro Okay, Well, I agree with Trevor.

I've du m.

R M's done a a a wonderful job, as he said, trying to thread the needles. I've had conversations when in the past, and I've relied on tens and twenties of state attorney general's best, state legislators, senators, all attorneys, medical doctors within those fields that have typically tried to thread many needles. And I'm not saying this is one they tried to throw. I'm not saying it was any part

If the other.

Councilors felt that that was something they wanted to do, I'm always speaking for myself there, but uh, I think it's a wonderful.

A great struct for the conversation and mission mayor, if I may, that is my recommendation, UH, if UH you don't hurt my feelings. If if the Council were to a the city where to find it self involved in a an Arisa action, I would expect that you would hire an Arista attorney. If you find yourself in broiled bankruptcy action, I would expect that you would hire a bankruptcy attorney.

UH.

The First Amendment is no different other than everybody has an opinion about it.

UH.

And so my recommendation would be, if you decide to move forward with this proposal or or any other, that you seek outside council with expertise in the First Amendment to help you draft that ordinance in a way that is most likely to to pass constitutional muster, but also that you hire affirm that agrees to defend you when you're suit.

Well.

I I personally want to thank you, cause I know you've taken a lot of time to to especially in the orientation.

I mean you you laid out every bit of case though and and what that looks like.

I know you've spent countless hours talking to UH attorney groups that have worked with all the states that are currently have litigation or cities, And you know, I think the frustration for me, and I know for you has been that there's a lot of people that would step up and write things, but stand beside you.

To try to argue that and defend it is different.

I it was very frustrating in the talk with a dozen or so outfits on this. Occasionally they'd say, well, you can try this, you can try that, and i' and I'd say, will you defend city when that is challenged in court?

Oh?

Maybe not?

And that's that's that's the problems.

They don't they're talent there.

It's easy.

It's easy to spit ball and throw stuff up against the wall, but it actually comes on putting your reputation on the line and saying, yes, this does not violate the United States Constitution. I had trouble finding anybody.

Well.

I I appreciate everybody's feedback and I'm ready to move on. But if I can say one more thing, someone towards the end said we're better than this, and I would like to suggest that that this process is good. Conflict in healthy communities is necessary. If you're in a relationship, and you never have any conflict you're not communicating. Anytime you begin to organize people beyond one, you're gonna have tension,

Because if we were.

To come in and say we're doing this in the process, we would hurt a swath of people who were no longer represented by the people that they voted for.

And if we came in and.

Said we're not doing anything, we would then alienate a whole other swath of people who who were involved in this process, and so you would just further divide the community as winners and losers. I would rather bring us towards something by saying, what is a fair process that we can trust? Understanding that we are again threading a very contentious needle, and so I've tried to create as a is a what I would like feedback on is this process and this idea because it may be.

Full of holes.

I am absolutely a flawed person who can only see, you know, as far out of the road as I can try to figure it, you know, figure it out.

So please over the coming days and weeks.

I'm asking you know, for all of Barblesville, I want to hear your thoughts on this because it's because your opinions are worthwhile. You helped me come to this, so help us continue to move forward.

I'd say I also have noticed is the uh this mister Haffington mentioned that there is a state Senate bill five fifty that's about to be presented I think here in another couple of weeks, and uh that you know, if the state if that actually gets heard on the house floor as well, if that were to passed.

Then the state would be uh facing that and and how to enforce that as well.

So and there's a lot of olimgation in many states. I mean, I know you you present all this research for but I think there's maybe thirty Yeah, there's there's quite a few that are at some form uh uh code conduct whatever that they're that they're presenting and and and it's in some legal form.

So I you know, I think it's already out there for us to see.

Uh.

But I do think that we uh initially whenever the first burger happened. We tried to set again around the table and I think did a good job of that. I mean, and hopefully we can't again.

Hm.

I think it's the right decision at the time, and it it divided our council somewhat, but we all continued working together. We all had a difference of opinion, and uh I again, this is a continuation of that very meeting we did, bringing it to a table, to a discussion for everybody to listen and talk to us. I think it's been healthy for everybody and puts everything out there.

Thank you for your thoughts.

Arn, thank you for your thoughts. Let me anything else