all right. Well welcome back to another episode of Come With Casey if you've been following along with us, by the way. Hi. Hi.
Yeah, I'm here too, fucker.
I'm going right into it. If you've been following along with us, you saw an episode a couple weeks ago where we talked with our good friend Jake mm-hmm. About shibari. Yes. And we got perspective on what it's like to. Uh, be a rigger. Mm-hmm. And what it's like to be a rope top. Somebody that goes through and does these intricate and beautiful knots, creates aesthetic. Does all this stuff works very closely in a relationship with the type of person we're gonna have on today.
We wanna welcome to the show, Tess. Now Tess, if we understand this correctly as a rope bottom. Mm-hmm. And she's gonna give us this really kick ass perspective on what it's like to do that. So I'm gonna take, take some time to turn the mic over to you Tess. Welcome to the show and, uh, tell us a little bit about yourself.
Yes. Thank you. I'm so excited to be here And share a little bit about what it means to be a rope bottom. So I am a, I'm a content creator. Have a. Very small following, but I'm on only fan's Instagram, so that's kind of my, how I got into shibari specifically. I I'm also an polyamorous relationship with my partner, so we opened up our relationship about two years ago and actually Jake was my first introduction to One, uh, a polyamorous relationship or anything kind of in that realm.
And then also shibari and rope bondage. So, and I'm so fortunate to have encountered him first. He was an amazing introduction to all of that, and he's helped just like a really safe space for me to explore all of this. And a way to explore being a rope bottom. So aside from all of. My polyamory relationships and Instagram and only fans. I really am drawn to shibari and being a rope bottom specifically, I'm really drawn to submission.
Although it's not necessarily part of my everyday life, that's a really safe way for me to explore being submissive. Mm-hmm. So, yeah, that's, I've been involved in Chiari for about two years. I've tied with a couple different people and I absolutely love the experience of rope bottoming, which is being the person who's being tied. So the rope top is the person who's tying the rope. Bottom is the person who's being tied.
Yeah. Well, awesome. Thank you for that. Yeah. Perfect. So let's, let's dive into this a little bit because we have, we have a lot to cover. Mm-hmm. Especially because of mining. Carrie's foray into a lot of this as of late. Oh yeah. It's
definitely peaked our interest. We
Oh, a lot of nights. A lot of nights. Just like I love it.
Yeah. Testing ropes and doing this. Then all of a sudden I don't have my hands for two hours. Like he's figuring out the spot. You
know, like I'm, I'm already like more of an analytical person, so I'm sitting back like looking at rope types and the different ones of what they do, and like test testing friction. Like, Carrie, come here, there's so much to
explore. It's, its crazy. It's overwhelming a little bit. It, it
can be. So I have like, I embarked on my stuff with, uh, with Shibari study and just, I'll sit there all day long. On myself and just do self ties. And I'll get pictures of
him at, when I'm at work. I have pictures of him with, like Luke, I tied my legs
together. I'm like, I love that. Yay. Let's, you can do
it anywhere.
You, you can, I'll sit there with like, like doing a harness on myself. I'm like, Carrie, check out this knot. That's so fun. I love it. So we, we appreciate you for coming on the show. So let, let's dive in again to. This whole concept of being a rope bottom. Mm-hmm. Could you give us a little bit about like what draws you to that in the first place? Because it's very constricting, it's a very trust laden.
There's a lot that goes into it, I feel, and I would love to get your perspective on kind of what draws you to it.
Absolutely. Yeah. And I feel like I do feel like it's different for every person. I have a laundry list of reasons that I'm drawn to it and that I love it. And some of them might resonate with people and some of them might be totally different from what other rope bottoms experience, but a few things that draw me in, and it's funny, Jake actually mentioned this on, uh, when he was on the show mm-hmm. That, uh, a lot of women specifically are drawn to it because in our everyday life we might be.
A little bit more controlling or like, you know, boss bitch type people. Yeah. And it's nice to just kind of let all of that go. Yeah. And literally, you, you release all of your control and it's, Very scary to do that, at least for me in my normal life, to give up control. And this is a way, a good practice to do that and in a, a really safe space where we've established that trust. Mm-hmm. And that's my role is to let go of that control. So that's one piece of it for me.
I also find it very meditative and therapeutic. I've had a lot of chronic pain in my life. Mm-hmm. And one of the pieces that comes with chronic pain is, uh, Continual desire to be out of that pain. Oh yeah. And you don't often get that relief or that relief. And so shibari and being tied up it can be a, a painful experience that you really have to push through. But then you also get that instant relief when the ropes come off. It's, uh, it's. A feeling like no other.
So that's another piece of it for me, is just experiencing that kind of pain cycle. So going through the pain and then also experiencing and looking forward to that relief at the end. And it is very meditative, you know, you're in that subspace which is kind of both a mindset and the actual chemical reaction in your brain mm-hmm. To what's happening.
So it's, it's very much a point of focus and something you really have, you have to give it all of your focus and give up all of your control to that. Mm-hmm. So it's very multifaceted for me. Mm-hmm. But those are some of the main things that really draw me to it.
Honestly. I can super relate to that. Like that's what has had. My interest with, with doing this as well, because, you know, I am, I'm, I am a boss bitch and I work really hard and, and I'm constantly like over things and telling people what to do and structure. Mm-hmm. And like, and then I'm a mom and then it's like telling them what to do. And, and so just to like, I. That release.
I think that that was the first thing that Jake said that like, kind of did perk my ears and I was like, okay, I really wanna try this because even like a meditative state is difficult for me. Like I can't get my brain to just shut, oh, shut the fuck up. Like, just shut up. That's it. And, and you know, even as much as we just are playing around, I mean, I even had my first, what I would feel would be like my first subspace moment was He had my hands bound.
And then we have this like really fancy ass egg chair that has this like, loop in it. Mm-hmm. And he was able to twist it and put my hands in and I was able to just hold myself like that for a minute. And it was, it was this like, I'm gonna let go. I'm gonna go into this, I'm gonna shut up. I'm gonna let him mm-hmm. Do this to me in, in a sense. And, uh, I think that that was one of the times that my brain actually stopped because I was more mentally focused on what else was happening.
And it was really nice. It was nice to, yeah, yeah. To experience that. So I can definitely relate to that. But I wanna go more into this head space that you speak of. I think that a lot of people assume what do you, what do you call it again? Where you're hanging. Where you're hanging. Uh,
no go about, no, please. When you're suspended. Yes. I think that
people assume that the suspension or the, that headspace only happens within suspension, but I would like to kind of dive into that a little bit more and, and maybe explain the difference and, uh, and then also how it's the same, you know,
Yeah. Uh, do you mean the difference between like floor play and suspension? No, I get, I guess, or they're like accessing that headspace outside of Chiari. Yes, yes. Yeah. Uh, just
accessing that headspace, because again, I think people think that suspension, that's the only place that you get Headspace clarity and I'm like, no, it happens the entire
time for sure. Yes. And I've, I've had other, other scenes that don't, don't even involve ChAARI, where I've gotten into that head space for sure. And. I, I'm still really exploring that for myself and I know there's like the really technical term of subspace, which is the, the actual chemical interaction. But I also definitely see it as a mind space that I can kind of click into, either by choice sometimes, or it just happens, but it's kind of like being in a headset.
Space, like when you go to work, like you have your work head space. Yeah. Or like, I used to be a teacher and I would've, I would have to get into a very specific space to stand in, in front of my class and present myself that way and teach. Mm-hmm. So, uh, it's definitely accessible outside of suspension, I would say it's a. Specific and very focused type of headspace when you're in suspension, it's usually a shorter period of time mm-hmm.
Than you might, uh, be experiencing it in other scenes. But I've experienced it in scenes with just impact or mm-hmm. You know? Yeah. Any other, anything else you can imagine with like, that comes under, like bd, s m mm-hmm. It's, Uh, especially for me personally, when it involves pain, that's kind of what flicks me into that head space.
See, that's a, for me, that lot, this is a lot along the same lines. Mm-hmm. Uh, whenever we went to, we had gone to a play party. Yeah. And Carrie had not tried impact play at that time and a really mm-hmm. Uh, uh, what's become a really good friend of ours mm-hmm. Uh, was in town. And put Carrie through some, I mean, I thought was intense impact play Carrie's sitting here like green, go do it more.
Didn't feel that shit,
but as, as like, but as she's being flogged and as she's like going through all of this like play with, you know, like chains and all sorts different stuff. I was, I would imagine that. You went through at least some something in terms of being able to like kinda let go and sink it. No, and you
kind of have to though. And, and I, I remember even going through and like clarifying out, like, cuz this was my first experience, like Casey said. So, they were being very helpful. It was like every, almost every time it was like, okay, how are you feeling? But it's almost that anticipation that kind of gets you into that space too. Is is like, okay, I'm, I'm waiting for this moment. I know it's going to happen. It happens. I. Feel it. I experience it. I after feel it.
I don't even know if that makes sense. But, and, and it does. It and, and it, but it also, you brought up a point that I, uh, was moving to next is the bond and the Trust. Yeah. Yeah. Like it, that has to be such a special moment to, like you said, you're letting go, you're relinquishing this sense of control that you, that we as women, I would say, almost have to have over ourselves, right? Like, this is our space, this is our bubble, this is us. And I'm, and I'm letting that go.
I, I kind of wanna go over that a little bit. Like how was that for you? Maybe even like the first time, was
it difficult? I honestly, I didn't find it very difficult. I think it's something that I had been really craving for a long time. And just allowed myself to start exploring. The most difficult part for me is I'm actually quite shy and I I tend to go very non-verbal during, especially during scenes or anything intense like that.
So the, the hardest part for me is opening up that way and like it feels more intimate to me to, to speak those things or share them out loud even than like the sexual part of it or just the intimacy of being touched and handled by that person. So for me, the most uncomfortable or like difficult, most trusting part was opening up that way, sharing what I desired, sharing my vision or what I wanted to experience during the sessions.
So, But I, I, I definitely think that that might be opposite for some people where allowing yourself to be handled physically and really giving out over that control can be the sticking point of trust. But yeah, for me it was definitely just facing the, the communication part of it. So you go,
so that, that was definitely something to touch on was the level of trust that you kind of have to experience with somebody that, because even with us, like I'm sitting here going, all right, so I'm gonna put you in these restraints. And I'm, I'm like sitting back and I remember like over the weekend, I had put Carrie into our circle chair and I had tied her hands and I put her hands up above, and then I had actually tied her leg up and. Out to the side of the chair. Mm-hmm.
And then I kind of stepped back to a second to kind of get that little admiration of my work, of my own work. Like, all right, this, I'm newer to this. Absolutely. But this is amazing. And it was like this really cool experience. But as I'm sitting there, I'm going, she could, no matter what she wanted to do, she's not getting out of this. Right. Like, I know the, I know those ties are firm, I know they're not going anywhere. Mm-hmm. What do you feel it it takes for someone to be able to.
Interact with a new person. So like you talk about any rope tops that you've met or worked with, which I think you mentioned there's only been a couple, uh, in the last little while, right. Is what was that process like for you to kind of be introduced to them, get to know them a little bit? How long do you feel it took for you to feel comfortable with? Submitting like that.
Yeah. So I, the people that I've tied with, I, I always talk with them. It's not like we jump, you know, right into right tying. So we talk about, uh, things that I'm okay with, things I'm not okay with any hard nos, any definite, like, I would really like to experience this. And it's really, it's taken me quite a while to figure out what. Exactly I do want to experience and why I'm actually drawn to the whole experience itself. But it always starts with a conversation.
I prefer texting that's just more comfortable for me. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And I feel like both of us are just able to express what we want to express in a careful and measured way. I like to look at usually, Typically they have an Instagram page or something that showcases their work. Mm-hmm. So I like to go over that. And I'm, I'm getting more experience. My first couple of experiences, I probably was not as smart as I should have been and, or I didn't know what I didn't know.
So I didn't know the questions to ask which is why I. Say, I was so fortunate to have encountered Jake first. Cause he, he, he was the one to really hold the space for that and kind of dig it out of me. What was I wanting to experience? So my process now is a little bit, a little bit more careful. Yeah. I definitely want to, I always ask with their negotiation processes and I let them kind of lead that because I want to see what they. Their natural instincts toward negotiation.
And then I ask about aftercare. What do they prefer? What are they comfortable doing just to bring up that conversation. Yeah. So just asking, asking questions, and then establishing a vision beforehand too. Do I want to do suspension? Do they want to do suspension? And then also finding a good location. So if it's a first meeting, I like when I'm able to, to find a more neutral location. Mm-hmm.
So the most recent person I tied with, we were actually able to meet up at the dungeon where he's a member of the board there. So that felt like a very neutral, safe space. But definitely a lot of checking in beforehand and during the whole, during the whole process, as you mentioned, it's just so important to keep checking in with each other and being open, both myself, being open and making sure that they have the space and are willing to be open too.
Absolutely. You know, I like half the time I'm starting to expect that if I'm gonna start talking with somebody and talk about like interacting in a rope way, I wanna, I wanna, I wanna have like a link to a Google doc that's a yes no maybe list. Definitely. Absolutely.
Send
this over, review it. We're gonna talk about this. So you seem to have honed your. Uh, you're almost like a questionnaire for yourself to go, like, if I'm gonna talk with this person, I know exactly the kind of the process I want to have to ensure that you feel safe mm-hmm. And that it's going to be a good experience for everyone involved.
Yeah, definitely. And it's taken, like I said, it's taken a lot of time and experience and some not so good experiences. Mm-hmm. And they haven't all been, I've built those questions through non-bar experiences too. Yeah. Just general meetups. Dating, et cetera. That's kind of been my, my building list and I'm sure it'll continue to build as well, of just things I should check in and know about, about a person before I meet up with them and do this very intimate. Thing with them.
Yeah. That, look, that's part of what we try to do every day on, on our podcast Ishmm. Try to give people an introduction, a, a nice way, like a line of questioning things that they can do to help give themselves these better experiences. And specifically amongst long-term relationship couples. Well, I mean,
like you said, you don't know what you don't know. Mm-hmm. And sometimes it does take a law trial and error and, and I think that if you have like, Created this like template for yourself. I, I think that's something that everyone needs to kind of do, whether they're doing, like you said, rope tie or impact player or just simply dating, you know? Mm-hmm. Like, I think it's a very smart thing to, to formulate for yourself.
And then you almost have like your own little like, mathematical equation, like, is this gonna work or not? Right. Definitely.
Yeah. And it's so, it's so important to really vibe with the person that you're tying with and because that makes it. A fun experience and that like, I always want to have a good experience tying, I don't want to have this like, you know, backlog of negative experiences because I think that will affect my experiences moving forward too. Yeah. So,
yeah. So have you ever considered, uh, being a top for someone that's never been a bottom?
I, well, I have. I dunno how to tie, to be honest, sir, I'm so beginner in tying, I desperately want to learn. I have like a million other hobbies I'm working on too. Yeah. It's, I have the rope and it's in my future. I can see it. Yeah. But uh, and my partner and I, he doesn't tie either. So we just do fun stuff to mess around, you know? Yeah, yeah. We're probably basically at the same level that you guys are. People ask me all the time, they're like, oh, can you time me up?
And I'm like, I'm so sorry. I'll send you the pages of the people who time, but I like, it would be a mess if I did it. So, but I for really simple ties or just a fun experience, you know, more of just kind of messing around, I totally would mean up or like, you know, help somebody with their first experience. Yeah. But it would, it wouldn't be a true time. Yeah. Right. Like I've tied my partner up. But it's just been for fun in anyway. Yeah. So, but no, I I do not have the rope knowledge,
unfortunately. See, there you go. See, I feel you on that. I'm, I'm sitting back, I'm like, all right, I'll do a tie. And I'm like, all right, I'm pretty sure that's good. And the knot collapses and I'm going, okay. Yeah. Wait, hold on. I'll just be patient. Which leads me into asking you actually how much patience do you feel is involved.
Whenever you're being tied up, and I mean, I'm not talking about just, just bound, but like intricate ties that are maybe gonna be used for either photo shoot purposes or for suspension. How much patience, uh, do you have to have to go. Through something like that, and then it And how do you pee? No, I'm
just kidding. That is a great question. I, I've been wondering at this entire time. Yeah. I'm sorry. I totally just stole your question with my inappropriate comment, but No. Yes. Seriously. How do you sit there and, and just. For that
long. Yeah. That's, that's really a piece of the meditative practice for me, and it's I don't usually go into it necessarily prepped for that. Although now that you ask that question, I probably will think about that ahead of time. But I, uh, I, I, I tend to be a very fidgety person, so it's kind of a nice relief. Yes. I'm in my hand that I haven't, yes. I'm always playing with something. So I, it's kind of relieving actually to mm-hmm. Drop into that space where I have to just sit still.
And I don't get that a lot in my day-to-day life. I have a toddler who I'm constantly chasing around. Mm-hmm. So it is kind of a relief or like a step away from my typical life. But it, and it does take a lot of. Patience. Although I would say more meditation than patience. Yeah. That's what the mindset feels like. Yeah. I'm not sitting there tapping my foot, waiting for it to be over or anything like that. Yeah. Because the, even being tied for something more decorative mm-hmm.
Is still very enjoyable. I love the. The, just the physical touch, you know, the light finger touches the rope moving across my skin. Mm-hmm. It really keeps me focused on the moment. Mm-hmm. When I feel my mind wandering, you know, it kind of brings me back in like any meditative practice. Mm-hmm. But it definitely, it does take a lot of time, probably more time. Than you expect.
And, you know, at the end of a session, I'll look at the time and almost always, I'll be surprised at how much time has passed. But it doesn't feel like it, it doesn't feel like you're just sitting there waiting for the time to pass clock and it's not moving. So I would say it doesn't. Register in my head as being patient. It's just I really drop into that focused Yeah. Space. And it becomes a very enjoyable, slow not rushed couple of moments. It does. Mm-hmm.
It does tend to feel like a couple of moments or in your memory, you know, you look back and it just feels like a couple of enjoyable minutes. Mm-hmm. So it, it is a very enjoyable patient experience.
I like that you don't, you don't ever have the the want to like grab the rope and move it around. And he's
saying that cause I grab the rope. That's a very
leading question by,
I'm.
Oh no, she's definitely a brat. Like you.
I'm okay, fine. I'm like a little bit, but if it just, if it was in the my way, just move it a
tiny bit.
Rope and me.
I don't think I have, I don't think I have reached down to move a rope, but I also like, I just become so submissive. I'm just, yeah. Like I'm not much of a brat. At least I haven't found the person to unlock my super bratty side. Nice. So I just very much like to drop into that, like I have. It is not my job here. This is your space to be the one who's moving the rope. And Yeah. And then for peeing, I have not had to stop and pee.
I could definitely see that happening, but I do, I do pee beforehand. Make sure I like, I have water. All of that stuff is taking your, taking care of everything you need.
See, there you go.
I, I. Ask that with Jake, but I'm like, I mean, what was he know? He gets
to just, I'll be right back. Like, right. You're just, you know,
you like can't do anything. Right. So
then what, like if you
were speaking to someone that wants to be a rigger as a bottom, what advice would you give them? To make you more comfortable or like for making that setting beneficial for the person that's being the bottom?
Hmm. That's a great question. I feel like that's a really important perspective to look at for sure. Of course. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think being openly communicative and being willing to, especially if you're tying of someone new, being willing to be the one who leads. The, the conversation and the scenes in general because like I said, they might not know what they don't know. Yeah, and that's speaking from experience.
I definitely could have done more research ahead of time, et cetera, but there's not a lot of resources out there especially for brand new people. Yeah. So being. Being able to step into that leadership role and giving people the information they need to know ahead of time and explaining the sensations they might feel or things to look out for. And then checking in consistently throughout the session as well is super important. Which is always a theme.
I've heard you mention it on your podcast several times and. Throughout this interview already several times. So just constantly checking in. And then something I found is really important one rigor specifically asked me if I go nonverbal during scenes. And I didn't realize it about myself before that, but I do. And so it was able, like, it unlocked that, uh, way of explaining my way of communication. Like now I can tell other people I go non-verbal during, yeah, sometimes.
So sometimes I'll nod or shake my head and like, that's enough communication from me. You can trust me. But that's, yeah, I
was about say at that point, would you do like a thumbs up and like a thumbs down or like a, you know, I mean, but I think it's important to be able to figure that out about yourself. And I think that that's really interesting to know. And then for someone else to bring that up to you and you're like, oh shit.
Do I, yeah. That's super helpful. Yeah, that's super helpful. Exactly. And then especially if they're new again, explaining like the position that you might put them in and mm-hmm. Like, I'm not super connected to my body movements and so if I don't see it in a mirror, I have a hard time knowing like where I am in space. Sure. So it's really helpful if they can explain to me like if I'm going to be upside down or like if my legs are going to be crossed or straight or and then.
Also it's really helpful for tops to know like your level of experience as a bottom. So for me personally, like I have experience on with floor play suspension I don't have a lot of experience being an active bottom where I move through the rope or mo change my own position in the rope. So I'm very much still looking for guidance from my rigor to show me how to move. So just checking in on experience level is super important.
And then if there are going to be any added elements like impact or wax or anything like that, anything besides rope is really important to check in on as well. Yeah. Yeah, and then other things that you would check in on before shibari specific things, you know, so, but yeah.
And just keeping that line of communication open and being willing to kind of maybe struggle through the awkward parts of being a first time encounter or working with somebody new who doesn't necessarily know what they're talking about or getting
into. Yeah. Yeah.
Okay. Well then, all right, so what, you said something just a minute ago that kind of peaked my interest, and you said that you were talking about some of the sensations that a, that a bottom might go. That's something that I really, really want to touch on. Cuz we have a lot of people that are like, well, I've been tied up, I've been bound. But you're talking about going through something where there's a, a lot, a lot going on within the body.
So can you describe if you're being suspended and you're being put in these, in intricate positions, some of the sensations that a person might go through? Uh, not necessarily on the mental level. Uh, but more along the lines of like, oh, well my knees bent and I'm back here and I'm being pushed up. Like, what are some of the things that you go through, some of the, those pain experiences that you're kind of adapting to?
Definitely, yeah. So when I first am tied up, like the first moments, it are always the most un uncomfortable. The rope always feels a little bit itchy. I am usually you know, stretched, removed into a not very natural position. So even having your arms behind your back, that's not uncommon. But it, you don't normally sit that way. Mm-hmm. Or stand that way with your arms all the way pulled behind your back. Mm-hmm.
So the first couple moments when you're put into the position, just feel a little bit uncomfortable. Like when you, the first couple moments of doing yoga are stretching where you feel the pain. Definitely. But it's not bad. It's not, it, it, if it ever feels like a bad pain, obviously that's, that's the point where you should stop just like stretching or exercising. Mm-hmm. You need to know your own pain points. But It can feel the rope feels really tight at first.
And I feel it kind of like it's itchy and almost like digging into my skin a little bit. But that fades pretty quickly. Okay. So after the first couple of moments of being in that position, which however I'm moved it usually subsides into, like, I could notice it if I check in on the pain. But then at that point it just kind of becomes mixed in with all of the other things I'm feeling of like the soft touch. So it's a really. It's mixed.
It's a mixture of very pleasurable feelings of the person, you know, touching you and being near you. And yeah, they're warm and like they might be like kissing you or doing other things that feel really good, but then you also have just these slight discomforts in your body. And they kind of all melt together after a couple of moments. But then you also can be stressed, removed into really uncomfortable positions.
Like if you have a waist rope on and you're upside down or, you know, Belly up kind of backwards. Yeah. That, that really pulls on your lower back. Or if your arms are really pulled behind your back you just kind of notice muscles are things that you wouldn't notice typically. Mm-hmm. And it's, it is painful. But to me it registers the same as like working out like a intense workout pain. Yeah. And there is a point where it doesn't really feel like pain anymore. It just kind of all Yeah.
Blends together. Yeah. All all your feelings and the pain.
Yeah, exactly. Like that's, that's great answer. First of all, that's what I wanted to communicate to people that are listening is you'd be like, Hey, listen, this is, this is kind of what you can, one of the ways that you could experience, I know that everything is subjective. Everything is gonna, everybody's gonna be their own individual, uh, experience. But I think that was put really well in terms of what you might experience, whatever. Whenever going through this.
So then having said that, is there, do you have like a favorite suspension that you've been through or a favorite position that you've been like, oh my God, I love being, you know, put into this specific way?
Definitely. I had one specific experience. Well, no, now that I say it, I have a couple that come to mind. One, definitely a little bit spicier than the other, but one that really just made me take your time and let us know. Yeah. Powerful. And like I was really like, I felt like I had achieved something as a rope bottom. That was something I really wanted to try. And then I did it, I accomplished it. Was, uh, it was at the beach.
It was a beach in la and I live in Spo Washington, so that was like very cool for me to be in LA on a beach doing shibari, doing suspension. But I, uh, and I wish I knew the technical names of the ties and the position I was in. Unfortunately, I do not. But I was upside down, so head down and my legs were up and bent. And I was being suspended mostly by my lower back with a waist rope. Mm-hmm. My arms were free so I could put them above my head.
So being upside down, they were facing towards the ground. Mm-hmm. And I just had a little bit of movement and it was definitely the most intense tie that I've been in. But just being, you know, on the beach and with this amazing rigor And in that position that felt really powerful and difficult. That was a really memorable experience for me. So that, that was one of my favorite ties so far. Mm-hmm.
And then another one, this one's a little bit more spicy but it, it is just, uh, burned into my brain. So this is one of my favorite experiences for sure. I, uh, had one leg down. My tippy toes were just barely on the floor. Mm. My arms, my hands were behind my back. So crisscross behind my back like this, which is again, like I said, that's pretty common. And then my other leg was totally bent up. So my knee was like up by my ribs basically. And my leg was suspended up.
And so that's how I was suspended. And then the rigor kicked my other leg out from under me, which was, that's. That's what stuck in my head is that leg kick. Uh, and then I was just suspended there floating and mm-hmm. It was, it was really incredible. So those are my two favorite
experiences. It's like, that's gonna be an intense feeling to have your, like foot barely on the ground or anything, and then have somebody just, oh, yeah. And, and
it was such a, it was a surprise too. So yeah, it was.
So you mix all those, all, like those neural chemicals, just putting you through these binds and everything you're experiencing, then just add in that heart drop. Yes.
Exactly, and I love, like something I tell the people that I like collaborate with or work with is, I love the unexpected. I hate that experience in real life of like having the rug pulled out from under me. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But I love it in shibari and like anything B D S M, it's, it's a safe, it's a safe, safe. It's a safe, safe. Exactly. Experience that, like fear and uncertainty. It's that
outlet. Yeah. It's that outlet to be like, look, this is my time to take all, all of those things that I do in my day-to-day life, all the character that I am, and essentially pour it all. Just out Exactly. If you have the bucket and have something fresh and go, let's, let's just do the things. Let's do all the things.
Mm-hmm. Do you ever like find yourself in an argument? You're like, I just need to be tied up. I'm pissed off. I just need to be tied up.
I need some clarity right now, but that's honestly probably a really idea. Like when I'm feeling really intense about something or overwhelmed, just I just need to get tied up. I just need to meditate on this. I'll be back.
And then on that same note, I'm a hairdresser and I'm just admiring your hair. Has anyone, uh, like tied your hair up also with it? Because that, that's like the same that I'm saw and I'm like, I have no hair. I can't do that. That's not fair. Oh, you can't. We'll, but I'm like,
something put outta your
hair. And I'm like, I just envision like in a rope.
Yes. It usually becomes involved partly because has to, yeah. Partly because it's in the way a lot, so it has to get moved from side to side and like all over the place or it's in my face. Mm-hmm. But, Yeah. It's also super sexy when it's tied back. That's gets pulled on. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
That's a big one that I'm wanting to get into. I've told, carry this over and over again, is as we move through all of this mm-hmm. And we go further in and get to where we can do suspensions, I'm like, I just want to tie your hair up behind your head. And I would like, I have these, these ideas. I, I'll text her all the time. I'm like, I have a new idea for what I wanna try out. I'll tell you when you get home. I love that. And it's just like a constant. So I hyper fixate. I am entirely adhd.
I get to a hobby or something and I just dive in. So with with totally with Jabari, I've had to pace myself to be like, all right, I'm gonna learn little bits at a time. I'm gonna take this knot and I'm gonna do it a hundred times, and then I'm just gonna moving on to anything else. So I've been like, Just jotting down. Focused on it. Yes. Yes.
That's one thing he, he says he's not, but we're literal cleaning out our entire garage. So the suspension thing he can start playing with. But no,
we're not hyper, hyper fixated. That's exciting.
That's so funny. I know. I've already got an anchor point on the, on the ceiling in the garage. I'm like, all right, we're just gonna go for
it. Oh my gosh. Do it. Go for it. And there's so many, like that's the other thing is there's so many different routes it can go. Like you can just be constantly thinking and exploring and creating with it. I
love it. Absolutely. I, I figure I'm a licensed he healthcare professional. You know, I, I can take care of you if something were to happen, you know? Yeah. We're good. We're good. I'm like your onsite
EMT and we have that safety rope, that safety cut thing that Jake showed us, you know, so just in case something happens. Yeah. And so, so actually that leads to the, what I was gonna ask you is have you, if, and if you're willing to share. Mm-hmm. And then also advice for anyone that has been triggered. In something like this?
Yeah, that's a great question. I have I had one experience. I haven't found myself very triggered personally. Mm-hmm. But I did have an experience that triggered something else for me. I have. Often, uh, with medical things, usually a vasso vagal syncope response. Okay. So I pass out pretty easily. Mm-hmm. And I had an experience where I was suspended and I felt that feeling coming on. And fortunately I know myself really well. I know all the signs for what I'm going to pass out.
And I, I came as close as I could have to passing out without actually passing out. Mm-hmm. And fortunately the rigor was able to get me down. I was able to communicate with them what was happening and in time. So what I learned from that experience was, One, it was really fortunate that I had communicated to him ahead of time that that can happen to me. Question, even though I didn't question, didn't expect it.
Yeah. Yeah. I didn't expect it to ever come up in shibari because it always happens when I go to the doctor or something else. But I communicated it because it's, I mean, I have a, a past with passing out and that feels important. So I was really glad that I had done that. And then I knew. That I, that he had one of those tools to cut me down. Mm-hmm.
And I had asked him whether he had ever had to get someone down an emergency and he had, so that was something we had already established ahead of time. And I just really did trust him. Mm-hmm. And, I was able to kind of wait and feel out whether I was gonna pass out before I like fully communicated, okay, I need to get down right now. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Because I trusted him so much to be able to get me down in time. So I would say to people who have any past being triggered in, in anything really.
Mm-hmm. As much as you're able to share with your rigor I think that can be really helpful because then you're able to, if something does happen, you're able to call on it and have them know exactly what you're talking about. Yep. Without having to explain all of your trauma or whatever it is that triggered you mm-hmm. In that moment. Because if that had happened to me and I had to all of a sudden explain, I have a history with passing out, I'm probably gonna be fine.
But I like, you know, if I to explain all of that in the moment I probably wouldn't have had time and I probably would've passed out in ropes. Yeah. Yeah. So if you're willing and able to share those triggers ahead of time, I would say that's super important. And I'm not sure there's a, like any, any replacement for that. Just being really open about. What might trigger
you? Yes. Uh, it's something we're huge proponents for. We talk about it often on the show. Mm-hmm. We talk about how early on in e relationship, whether it be temporary, temporary or or more long term, how important it is to kind of open up about some of these things that can be either triggering for a person mm-hmm. On an emotional level, or if they have any sort of issues that they deal with health-wise, like.
Well, and, and like you said, it, uh, feeling trust in them enough to then communicate that as well, like Absolutely. And, and that's kind of what I was, uh, talking about earlier, like the bond that you do end up inevitably creating with someone that would be your rigor, right?
Like, and so that's why I was wondering like, is it something that you're like, oh, anybody, or have you ever found yourself more like, no, no, no. I, I'm just, I'm not vibing, this isn't gonna work, not vibing, this isn't gonna work. Like, do you find yourself being really like, Selective now that you're further educated on
it? Definitely. I'm definitely more selective and that's more, like I said, I've only tied with a couple of people and I've only tied with people that I've been definitely very comfortable with. Yeah. But my experience comes mostly from other experiences that I didn't that I maybe felt those points of discomfort or saw those red flags that I didn't. Pay attention to as closely as I should have. Yeah. So I've definitely built my kind of catalog of things that I look out for. I love that.
And yeah. Yeah. So I'm very much more selective at this point. And like I mentioned, I have that kind of list of questions that I run through. Mm-hmm. And I'll do that moving forward for any new people that. I tie with, absolutely. Hmm.
You just need to create your own little, like how to be a, a bottom, how to be a bot, how to be a bottom. I was gonna say,
you're, you're a teacher, so that's like write, you know how to write
curriculum
because I do feel like it is a popular thing. And after we had Jake on the show, I, you know, a lot of my. Nice. Listen to the show. And they've asked me, and that's why I asked about the, like, you know, that mental space that you get into and like being suspended. I'm like, you don't have to. That's not what it's about. Mm-hmm. Like rope play is not suspension. That they don't go, they can, but they don't go hand in hand. Uh, right.
And, and so I think that it is, Something that people need to understand. But you said it earlier too, there's not a lot for you to just go out there and figure out or, and like, go and watch how to be a bottom and just sit there and write your notes. Like, we don't have anything like that. You know? And, and I feel like. It would be beneficial if someone like you were to guide and help people looking to become a bottom.
Cause even as like myself, like that's something I would love to do, but I'm internally a brat, apparently. I'm like, Maybe if I had like a few little like notes or something to refer to or just to like kind of get out of my own head. But it definitely seems like you've really answered everything so beautifully. We'll write a book. I, yeah. S is for shibari. Oh,
I would love to. You really should.
I mean, I just, I feel like there's just not enough out there on the
bottom side. It's so true. Yeah. Even I ahead of this interview, Because I feel, I feel fairly inexperienced myself as a, as a bottom, you know, this is still very much a realm of exploration for me. Yeah. I've done a lot of thinking about it and internalizing and processing. So I do feel like I have a pretty good grasp on it. But even ahead of this interview, I was looking up like, what, what is subspace actually?
And that was the first time that I actually learned that it was a chemical response in your brain. Yeah. So I still have a lot to learn about it, but they're really like, when I was looking that up, They're just, it's all personal blogs and things that Yeah. Are just personal experiences, which is great. Like, that's, that's how you learn and that's what I would be sharing too. Mm-hmm. But there really isn't, like a consolidated source.
ChAARI study does have lots of videos on rope bono, bottoming specifically. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But other than that, it is, it's pretty dry.
That's, that's what you get whenever you're dealing with, you know, Kind of unregulated areas, right? We don't, there's not like a central, there's not like a board out there. There's not like a, a research group that's putting together all of these terms and making them official. So kind of deal with what you can, but it's good to have people like yourself who are able to kind of come out here mm-hmm. To audiences such as ours and say, Hey listen, yeah, this is really what this is about.
So they're not misguided from sources that could be potentially harmful or potentially Definitely. Taking things in the wrong way. A little bit more toxic. Mm-hmm.
I'm sorry. All I think especially with now, especially with our players, is to, yeah. All I can think of now is a rope bottom board. A
rope bottom. What board? A board for?
We meet on Tuesdays.
It's monthly meetings with agendas. We follow Robert's
rules. Nobody talks cuz we're all submissives. Just wait, wait for someone to start the meeting. Everyone's
waiting for someone else. Hilarious. Oh my God. All well with that. I think that we're gonna go ahead and, and call the interview. Yeah. Like, oh my God, TA you've been so amazing today. You've provided both us and our listeners mm-hmm. With a, a, an insane amount of information, uh, that'll help them out, especially ones that are getting, just getting into this, this area of study. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I know that through my experiences so far, it's been nothing but positive.
It's been really, really cool, especially having people like yourself. Mm-hmm. Like Jake, everybody's kind of directing where to go. Mm-hmm. Like, Hey, my experience, this is what's been great and this is what to avoid. Mm-hmm. So, uh, I'm appreciative of that. I know that I'm working harder with Carrie so she can learn how to be a bottom. I'm all track and not, not do things like grab the rope. What? Well,
I actually made a mad, cause I tried to lick him when he was like, that's right. And he's like, stop,
I'm, I'm seriously sitting here with her legs trying to like, tie your legs together and I'm doing this. And she's like, lean forward and just starts licking me off.
Oh my gosh. The intrusive thoughts they took over. Good.
I'm trying to concentrate and be like, I'm gonna do this right. I'm gonna make sure there's all this, all this nice, neat, and then it's just lit and then I'm
gonna lick them.
Amazing.
So as we, as we go ahead and let you go, we know that people listening are gonna be dying to figure out how they can see some of your stuff. I know that you mentioned Instagram only fans. What are you willing to share with how people could either age, just view your stuff or be get in touch with you? Yeah,
absolutely. I'm really only on Instagram and only fans and both places I am temperamental underscore kitten. And I great. Am more than happy to have people follow along. Feel free to reach out. I don't always reach back, reach out back. I'm not a great texter. But I love to share what I'm working on and it's always a learning journey. So yeah, happy to have people follow along.
Well, great. Well, te thank you for being on the show, Carrie. Yeah, this has been great. Thank you
so much. All right. Well, for
another, absolutely. Thanks you guys. It's, it's for another episode to come with Casey. Uh, I'm Dr. Casey Sanders. And I'm Carrie Sanders. I'll see you next time.