All right. Well, welcome back to another interview. With come with Casey. We are your host. I'm Dr. Casey Sanders. And I'm Carrie Sanders. And we've got a great episode of coming in for you today because we are talking all things Shibari. If you've been watching the show, you know that we've done one episode on Shibari already. Yes. Well it was more around like the philosophy behind it, more about like the, the really ferial topics. Yes, yes. Spirituality involved in it.
But today we want to get into more of the technical aspects of it. Mm-hmm. So we are joined today. By Jake here who is going to, uh, give us a really good breakdown. Walk us through some stuff, maybe even show us some of the things, uh, that you can do at home mm-hmm. That are, that can be some fun with your partner. So anyway,
Jake, welcome to the show. Hi guys. Super duper excited to be here. Uh, like I said, my name's Jake. I've been, uh, practicing shibari for, um, we're creeping up on three years. I, I started kind of experimenting with, with rope bondage, um, at least I wanna say like six or seven years ago. And, uh, it just didn't work for that relationship that I was in. And then as that transitioned, I kind of got back to, uh, Leaning into the freaky Boy scout side of things and, and got back into it.
So yeah, I started out doing stuff for my friend who's a boudoir photographer Okay. Here locally. And, um, I hit her up one day and I was like, Hey, would you be interested in adding like ropes to your photo sessions? And she said, Literally yesterday I tried tying somebody up and I think we both almost died. So, so yeah, she's like, actually, I would love your help. And um, so that's kind of how it all started. And now I'm doing shoots and events and private sessions and all sorts of fun stuff.
So
you've like, you've like really gone all into this thing then
I, I kind of have to, for my own personality. Um, if something is super interesting to me, it's like this. Just like a feral focus. I know, it's that I get in the what you mean.
Yeah. Yes, he does. He does the same damn thing.
Yeah. So that's really cool. So you, you've like dove into this thing. So what was that actually that, that's brings up a good question. What was that first, uh, do working with this boudoir photographer coming through and just what was that experience like for you
personally? I really like. The ease of photo shoots cuz it's a much different energy. Yeah. Because really it's, everyone's primary focus is less about the feeling internally of a session. Mm-hmm. And more about the outcome of like looking delicious. Okay. So
it's all about the aesthetic in that, in that state.
Yeah. And um, I have this tendency to fuck around really hard. So when I'm nervous, I get funnier and. And so then it is just like we're cracking jokes, we're laughing, we're having a good time, and then it's like, boom, smolder shot, smolder shot. And then it's like you can't really move a whole lot depending on how much you're tied up as well. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So it's a lot of us just like kind of moving around the model.
Yeah. And then, um, yeah, just kind of fucking around the whole time and it's, it's super chill. It's super fun. I get to hang out with gorgeous people in their underwear. Like my life is amazing. Who wouldn't want that? So
how long, uh, is a session roughly?
Um, it, it just depends, you know, it's like how long is a piece of string it? Just as long as you make it? Yeah. It just, it really depends on what's needed for that day. And then sometimes, if we're shooting with a homie, they do their own like hair and makeup and they'll bring, bring their own wardrobe. And then if it's like a full client, they get hair and makeup before. Mm-hmm. And then have access to, like my friend Becca, she's the photographer. Uh, paper Tiger Photography.
Shameless there. It's love the flag. Yeah. Yeah. She's amazing. And, um, she has like an entire client closet that's like Okay, size and gender, uh, inclusive. Mm-hmm. And so it's just like this big old process. And then I come in generally after an interview process before the shoot, and then just figure out kind of what we're gonna do for each session, uh, individually. So
do y'all start when with these sessions, is it something where you start off where it's like, Simple, to complex. Like you start off with a simple tie and then make it much more intricate, more complex. More complex as you go throughout the shoot.
Yeah. Because with the shoot and the angles, you could hide on like the extra rope. Mm-hmm. So I could do like, let's say something takes 10 steps, but at step three it's already looking good. We could kind of pause and like linger there for a moment while and get some photos. Okay. And then I could just like, Curl up and tie a bow in all of the extra rope and hide it behind their body, or we could, uh, move it out of the frame and things like that.
So it, that's where a lot of the ease comes from with Yeah. With the photos,
you know. So, so do y'all like collaborate ideas? Because I'm on your page right now, which is, uh, G e D o underscore, n a w a. Mm-hmm. And there's one where there's a girl that's tied up with a bar behind her with a, like a
lamp lampshade. Oh, the lampshade? Yeah. You
see this? It is, oh my God. The most. I want this on a poster in my room. It is the most beautiful imagery. Please listen. Send us a
print of this and we'll put it on it right
here. I'm completely obsessed with this, and so I'm curious, like, do y'all come together and sit and like, Hey, I wanna throw a lamp shed on this head with our arms tied back mm-hmm. With like, so do y'all collaborate these ideas?
Yeah. Um, I, I'll collaborate with the, I'll kind of talk with Becca, the photographer first and see like, Hey, what's the goal here? Is it like, Soft spice or steamy or intimate? Or are we doing like extra Kellye or is like, is there gonna be suspension involved? Cuz she has hard points set up in her studio too. Oh, okay. So I have the option to bring my whole setup and do suspension and it's gonna be like, what's your goal for the shoot?
And then I talk with the person being tied and figure out how are we going to reach. Or edit the photographer's goals while keeping in mind like the person that's being tied and, and making sure that they're like safe and, and comfortable and If they wanna push out of their comfort zone, then that's up to them.
It's not us pushing them, it's us, like helping guide them out of their comfort zone to step into something more powerful instead of me like fish hooking somebody and be like, All right, bitch, here we go. You're doing this, you know? Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's super duper not the move there. No.
Yeah, for sure. Well, okay, so two points real quick. One for anybody just listening that went, what the fuck is a hard point? Oh yeah. We, we have an understand that that is going to be a point put onto like a wall or a beam or something. It's area where you can anchor down your rope, correct?
Yes. So it's, uh, generally something above you. Um, if you have like a, um, Vertical pillar. It's called a which just means pillar in Japanese and you could tie to that. But generally, uh, hard points when referred to are something in the ceiling or above you. Um, could be an external frame, could be mounted into your ceiling directly. Could be, um, a climbing strap around like an old growth branch. Mm-hmm. Or underneath a bridge or we have this really massive radio flyer.
Wagon in Spokane, Washington and this got like a slide and like monkey bars underneath it. And I've suspended somebody underneath the wagon before in a park. Uh, that was the only time I've gotten. The cops called on me for Shibari.
I was
gonna sayari I heard you say for Shibari yes.
Um, actually, I guess ever. Yeah, no, I guess that was the only time ever. So I had to think about that. Uh, not, oh man, not getting caught is not the same as, uh, getting in trouble. So That's fair.
That is very fair. So, I, I kind of wanna go back. So like, how did you learn all of
this? So I actually learned online, I'm sure yourself and a lot of listeners can empathize with the, um, difficulty of like finding a scene in your area. Yes. Then let's say you do find a scene. Do you align. With that scene? With the speed or, yeah. Yeah. Or do they fucking creep you out? Yes. So like, it's a hundred percent lately I've been, I've been getting into a community now, which is like amazing and I'm super fortunate. But, um, just the same with like, good quality organic food.
You know, you can't get that on all parts of the country. So it's like you, you might not be able to find a nice community or somebody to learn from. Um, that is a safe person as well as being knowledgeable enough to teach you what you want to know. Yeah. So I went through shibari study, it's just shibari study.com. It's totally worth it. There's like six more than six, less than 700 videos on there right now. And it's tying in all body types, uh, like masculine, feminine bodies. Um, it's just.
It covers so much that it's just, it's amazing, you know, from, from the basics all the way up to, into some really intense, spicy shit.
See, and that's, that's so cool because I mean, I, that's how I've learned some of my basic ties just been on videos on like YouTube. Yeah. But to have a resource that is, you know, um, from, from what I, I think I heard you say at some point is that it's behind a paywall. Correct. Like they have free safety videos and then they have, they, they do. A paywall for like more of the in-depth stuff,
correct? Yeah, absolutely. So anyone should, uh, check it out if they're interested. Cuz there are like the, what is it? The medial, the radial and the ulnar nerves in your arms. And so you wanna make sure that you're not giving somebody nerve damage, just trying to be spicy for a night cuz that would be catastrophic. Um, and there's just a lot of other things about like videos for bottoming rope.
Um, videos for tying and safety and just, you could also watch sessions, which I think is really cool. Okay. So where it's okay, that's great. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Like they're not telling you how they're doing anything, but you get to watch them go through and see what start to finish looks like, which is really missing a lot. You know, people will see these photos of this like, amazing shit and they'll be like, well, I want to do that. And you don't know how long that person was in the ropes for.
Yeah. When that photo was taken. Like that moment is stretched. Into Infinity. Mm-hmm. But they might have only been in that position for a couple seconds to take a photo and then write back out of it, you know? Yeah. So,
See, and that, I love that cuz that's such an important thing to look at in, in terms of safety. Cuz you are getting into something that is, you're binding a, a person in mm-hmm. These positions that are gonna do things like have the potential to cut off blood flow, to create mm-hmm. Nerve damage, to create soft tissue damage. And if you don't know what the fuck you're doing, you, you can really hurt somebody. So. Mm-hmm.
To make the sense of that, of just say, hey, if there's a photo out there and you see somebody in this, Intricate suspended tie where they have like their legs purple almost. Mm-hmm. And you're seeing these things. The, the fact of the matter is, is they may not be in these positions for very long at all. Mm-hmm. And if you do that and you try to recreate it, and you, you try to extend it out a lot, you could really hurt somebody doing this.
Mm-hmm. Absolutely. So it's like finding out what your preferred risk profile is. Mm-hmm. Uh, like my own personally, and then seeing how that aligns with the person bottoming the rope. Mm-hmm. Um, and then see where, where we're gonna play. You know, it's like I have my goalpost, they have their goalpost and like this is our field of play and we don't want to go out of bounds in something like this.
Yeah. So that communication beforehand of being like, what is this scene gonna look like? What Absolutely. What's your yeses in your nos? What are my yeses and nos and. Where can we come together to have a, create almost like a team effort to make sure we're both gaining?
Absolutely. And I feel like definitely recently from hearing these stories, like it's a lot more bottom focused now, more than it has been historically where it was just like, Hey, you need to do this, or you're not a good rope bottom kind of. And that's like, that's bullshit, you know? So it's like people of all different body types, different genders, different um, flexibility levels. That's the great part about. Rope and learning ChAARI as I feel it's primarily principle driven.
Okay. And then you have to figure out what works on the body. Mm-hmm. And that's what, man, I just, I love that shit. You could tie rope onto other rope if you run out. There's ways to kind of burn rope if you get done with your tie and you still have half the rope left, what can you do that is safe an aesthetic if aesthetics are important for you? Yeah. And, and all of those things, but.
The rope is so adaptive that telling yourself, or like when I hear people be like, I don't really think it's for me. And I'm like, well, why do you think that? Let's, let's unpack that. Let's break that down cuz it's probably bullshit.
Well, so then let's, let's do this, let's take a quick, a quick shift because through all of this stuff that we're talking about so far, we're hearing a lot of terms, right? Mm-hmm. We're hearing, we're hearing top, we're hearing bottom, we're hearing that. So it would be, be our teacher for, for just a quick second. Oh yeah. Absolutely. So you can have some of our listeners become more acquainted with some of the terminology around ropes and around the people involved in it.
So they can feel as if the discussion is, yeah. Is some is really connecting for them. Yeah,
absolutely. So a lot of the times they'll hear the term like rope bunny. For the person bottoming the ropes. So the bottom is gonna be the, the person being tied and the top is going to be the person tying. So just kinda like top and bottom, let's you know. Okay. The roles for sure. Um, so it's, uh, equivalent or like, I guess not equivalent, but similar to like the dom and sub aspects of things. Mm-hmm. But also like they're telling me what they want. Done to them.
I don't feel like a dominant situation like I'm doing what they're telling me to do. Wait a minute. Yeah. This is backwards. You knows, like, okay, power bottom. You're like, I don't know. That's, you're like, that's kind of weird. So I just like bottom. Yeah. That's fucking backseat drivers. Yeah. And um, so, so with that, I just prefer top and bottom. It's just, it's easier, it's not gendered. Mm-hmm. And it just kind of like describes really quickly, like who's being tied.
Um, cuz not everybody identifies with the, the bunny. Yeah. You know, it's like I have, uh, my friend, my friend Brian, he's like this big tough black dude, you know, and it's like, he wants, he wants to bottom rope, but he's just like, I ain't a fucking rope bunny dude. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, no, no, Peter Cottontail vibes here. You know, so, so that's, that's why I just kind of gravitate towards, uh, top and bottom.
Or there's like rigor, um, is generally the, the term for the person tying the ropes too. Okay. May I think. Did I miss any terms that I dropped? No,
no. I think no, in terms, in terms of basics. I think, yeah, I think that that covers enough for someone that's listening outside of the conversation who go, okay, now I know what that means. So
yeah. So then what kind of ropes do you like to use? Because I've seen so many different kind. I know we have like, right, I got like this, like silky long black one. Mm-hmm. You know? Yeah. I guess that's okay. But, but yeah. What do you like?
Yeah. This is purely for, for you guys and for the listeners watchers. It, this is purely my own personal things that I, I come to enjoy. So I like a jut rope because it's a natural fiber. Mm-hmm. And because it is natural, like I could take it here and if I squeeze it really hard and I pull the rope through my hand, it doesn't like, it doesn't burn. Mm-hmm.
You know, and, and it doesn't create a lot of friction, which means if I'm pulling this rope underneath a wrap that's really close to your body, I'm not gonna burn you as well as you can see here is, I kinda wondered about
that. Cause I see it pull through and I'm like, does that not like burn their skin?
Yeah. So typically like if, if you get a rope burn out in the wild or you're doing something like that, it's because it's a synthetic rope, okay. Which has, has the potential to just generate a lot more friction and a lot more heat or like a natural fiber. Like jute, um, just doesn't, and I like that a lot. Um, it, it kind of looks and almost like, feels rough at first, and then it's actually pretty soft on, on the body. So I like that a lot. Uh, some people will fray their ends and sew them.
I like my ends, uh, tied and a knot like that, so I could easily with just a quick little slip knot and I could kind of show you Yeah. For the. Listeners, not the watchers. Um, I'm just making a loop in the rope and you could pass the, the loop over the knots at the end and then an album boom tied together. Yeah. And so if you like run out of rope and you get to like the literal end of your rope mm-hmm.
Then you can just grab another piece and continue the party, you know, so that's how I kind of tell people if maybe they're a little bit. Larger and they're just like, how are you gonna get all the way around my body with that? Or how are you gonna do your things? And I was like, that's my job. That's not your job. Like your job is to tell me how you're feeling and what's coming up for you. And if you want me to put a little more pepper on it or if you wanna dial it back a little bit, you know.
Okay. So then where
do you get your ropes
from? Um, other shameless. Yeah, you can just like
go and get a, just everywhere.
Yeah. I like a clean rope company on Etsy. Uh, they get their rope. It's like a raw jut, um, so it's before it's, it has any oils put on it, so it just feels better on the skin. Um, I do use a synthetic rope, which, uh, looks pretty similar. Yeah. To, to the Jude. This one's like bright, bright red though. And, um, this, the synthetic rope I use for my upline. So the uplines now back into the terms is something I would tie.
I would tie to the harness, and then the upline would go up to the hard point that we talked about earlier. Mm-hmm. And so because this synthetic rope like I could tow a car with. Mm-hmm. I don't have to worry about my uplines. Is breaking at all. Okay. Like I tie off of a, a piece of bamboo and I have this type of rope is called posh. And I have this type of rope, like from the bamboo to my hard points. Okay.
Okay. So whenever you're tying someone up and doing like a suspension kind of thing, then you have, you know, a harness on them that you've created mm-hmm. Using your rope, and then you're tying that synthetic rope to that harness. Mm-hmm. And to, so you can suspend them.
Yeah, because, uh, posh will, uh, will generate heat for sure. And Okay. I don't, I don't know any masochistic subs out there that think blisters are hot, you know? So it's just like, if you do, that's, that's awesome. Uh, you terrifying. Maybe, maybe
bruises, maybe. Yeah. Right. Not
necessarily blisters. Yeah. I was like, uh, you're scary. Lose my number. And, um, but. But yeah, so I don't like tying posh onto the body. Okay. Uh, but I will tie posh to the jut and then use that for, for my uplines. Okay. Yeah.
It seems though like a lot of what we see on some of the shibari pages that we follow, that using the more natural fiber rope is pretty popular. Mm-hmm. Or at least that, like I see ropes that look almost identical to what you have mm-hmm. On a, a lot. Of people being
tied up. Yeah. And it, it is like traditional, so like the aesthetic nerd part of me is just like, ooh. If you like, if you like, uh, brightly colored ropes, then getting into, um, like a nylon rope mm-hmm. Can be an option for you. Uh, it's tends to be a little bit thicker. How the rope I use is in between five and a half to six millimeters, and that just works for me aesthetically. Mm-hmm. But if it doesn't work for you, you're right. You know? Mm-hmm. So, right.
Yeah. You, you could experiment with nylon. I think it, it kind of stretches just a little bit also, which I don't like, I like my ropes to not stretch at all. So then if I put a friction or a knot or something in a certain place, if I know I'm gonna pull on it, I want that to stay where I left it. I don't want the, the harness to kind of collapse.
Yeah. That makes sense. Cool. So, uh, I'll kind of jump around a little bit, but then how do you go about finding people, like how do you do have like an interviewing process because this seems pretty intimate course and you're not just gonna course like pull someone off the street and be like, let's tie you up. Like, I, I
imagine there has to be absolutely not. I like to put it out there, but I'm looking for people. Mm-hmm. Uh, it's, I very much fish with a net. I'm not a hunter. I think it's weird for me. Um, a very not small man to approach, generally a female, and be like, Hey, can I remove your physical capacity to defend yourself in any situation for fun, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then, uh, so I'll have a lot of interviews and stuff where I'm like, oh, do you have any questions for me?
And they're like, no. I'm like, why the fuck not, like,
like, you need to have questions
for me. Yeah. Like, I could literally kill you and there's nothing that you can do. Like, I'm not going to, but it's just like, you know. I think men are like the leading cause of death for women. So I'm just like, why aren't, why am I carrying all the nerves for this group? Yeah. I feel like you should also have questions for me. Uh, working with my photographer, Becca has given me a lot of street cred cuz she really pushes that like safety and consent and just like all of those things.
So I know working with her has been huge and then I just have an interview process and figure out, you know, what people want. Yeah, it's pretty common for like your, your alpha female boss lady type to want to then switch and give up all control. You know, maybe she's a mom and she's running a business, or she is in a manager position and she's babysitting adults all day.
And then when she comes to hang out with me, she's like, I want you to take everything away, and I just want to go inward and focus on my body. I'm like, okay, cool. Let's figure that out. And then sometimes I'll have people that come in and they want a shoot. For, they want content for like only fans. Sure. Mm-hmm. So I'm like, okay, bring your whole closet, you know, have an attached bathroom so you can change as many times as you need to. Like, I don't really care.
And then we'll just focus on getting in photos. Mm-hmm. You know, so I had a friend show up. She was, uh, like cosplayed, like Belmont. And I could change the light colors in my room. So we did like green lights from the bathroom and purple lights above, and then that's it. I took her glasses off and like put 'em out of reach, you know, and we like, oh, that's really cool.
Yeah. You know, so it's like, so that was, that was our goal and we're just kind of fucking around and having fun the whole time versus like, do I need to hold space for somebody to like drop into Subspace? Mm-hmm. And. Kind of like, almost like care take their body as they step away for a moment. So for the listeners, if you're not familiar, subspace is when like you're in a scene and your body's releasing a lot of these like natural, like endogenous chemicals.
A lot of like oxytocin, but adrenaline and like all these, like your uppers and downers kind of at the same time. And uh, I heard through the grapevine you're gonna have a rope bottom on the podcast here soon. So I'll them talk, I'll let them talk about it. Cuz I've actually never really. Experienced that I've experienced, like, like the top kind of energy of that. Mm-hmm. Or like the, the, sometimes they'll call it like subro and dom drop. Mm-hmm.
And these are all like, I think conversations for other people that are more versed Sure. In that, but it's still like the energy exchange there. So I do, I need to be worried about that, where it's like I'm tying over yoga clothes or like, Their ex-boyfriend's triple XL T-shirt when they're a tiny person. You knows that. Like is it more for their comfort? Mm-hmm. It's more for photos, is it for this? And so having an interview process to really break all that down is super important.
Sure. I love that.
And so then what about like afterward? Is it like you untie and pat 'em on the butt and send them out? Like how does that work?
Well, Let's see, uh, for the last time for I cuz uh, what carrie's referring to is called aftercare. Yes. So a, after a, uh, a scene if you will, a session, um, how to take care of that person and how to support them on like, their journey back to the body. Mm-hmm. So with that, it's individual for each person. You know, I've, I've made people into like a little burrito with a blanket and like done that I've like.
Almost like, like ghosts when they're both making the pottery, you know, like going up like behind. I've gone up like behind somebody and just like squeezed them with my hands instead of with the rope. Um, I just made herbal ginger tea for a, a lady I tied up last time cuz I was like, what's your aftercare? Like, what are you looking for? She's like, I just want to talk about the session. I want to have a conversation and I would like some herbal tea.
Okay. And so I was like, I could figure that out. I'm a pair in the kitchen, you know, so.
Well that's, that's good. And you know, we talk about aftercare a lot mm-hmm. In terms of, uh, with a lot of our couples that we, that we take care of with a, with a lot of people is the importance of aftercare. So to see it translated in such a way with something as intense as ChAARI can be mm-hmm. Is, is really, really refreshing to see, especially for somebody with such an, an expertise such as yourself to do something that. It's so
interesting too because like, I understand why you would want aftercare through this experience, especially at being as deep as it can be. But I just never thought about it. Like I understand like BDSM and like impact play and like aftercare. Totally get it. And then I remember us talking about it the last time or having this conversation, I was like, oh shit, that, that actually makes so much sense. Because like you said, it's like it's bringing them back, but it's also like recharging.
Reconnecting. And then I imagine the bond you have with these people. It's probably pretty special to be able to be the person, to be the rigor to this individual. Like you said, maybe it is a, a CEO woman that just wants to calm the fuck down for a minute. Mm-hmm. Like, you get to offer that and that's really special. That's really, really
cool. It is pretty wild. The, the feedback I get from some people and on my Instagram I have a highlight for like reviews and that's, that is also what kind of. Makes people not ask a bunch of questions to work with me, you know? Yeah. So it's like I'm, I'm slowly getting less weird about people being less and less concerned, cuz I have a pretty good track record so far. Yeah.
You're not, yeah, you're not exactly out there. Just, you know, having a basic interaction with a person, this is very deep and very soulful. So those, uh, those nice positive reviews, I'm sure allowed for that ability, for that trust and allowed people to be a little bit more vulnerable
with you. And I think too, like, I'm not anti dungeon. You know? Mm-hmm. But it's like, it's not for me. It's not okay. It's not the look, it's not the vibe that I'm going for. So I have like natural fiber ropes and like bamboo, so it's all, it's like earthy, warm tones. Yeah. It's not like this dark like chrome and like black leather and chrome and latex and that's it. And I was like, that's super cool. It's just not my thing. Uh, I think I'm weird. Well, I have these way
too hairy for like, this says fairy wings if you wanna tie me into massive fairy
wings. Yeah. Ooh. Absolutely. I mean, I've, I've worked around a lot of things before, or like you said earlier, with like the lampshade and the bamboo and stuff, and just turn people into furniture, uh, made them feel like fairy princesses. You know, it's, it's whatever, whatever's needed. We've
got a good park by our house. We'll just, we'll bring you down here. Yay. Go to the park at like dusk.
Yeah, absolutely.
Do like a ChAARI fairy shoot. That'd be so cool.
So down. So, uh, my photographer wants to travel so I can, I can connect you guys. She's fucking amazing. There you go. That'd be so cool.
Um, so my next kind of question that I have, and I swear to God, I had a brain fart. What the fuck? Hold on. Oh,
it's all, get it back. Get your shit together. Yeah.
I was like, no, I like just your time. Said take time. Oh, another okay. No, it's all good. So I'm just gonna go to another one until I get back to that. Yeah. Um, oh, I got it back. Okay. I'm, yay. I know you would. So, um, what, what we were talking about is like, So far outside of the realm of what couples can do can do. So let's like, oh yeah. Bring it to couples a little bit. Absolutely. And kind of talk about ways that you can introduce us into the bedroom when you are not as well versed
as you are. Ooh, player three is entered the game. Yes. Alright, there you go. So, um, so with that, uh, most people wear shoes. Mm-hmm. Yes. Which means you have shoe laces. And if you have shoe laces, you probably know how to tie your shoes. So that's all you need for bondage. Simple. Simple.
Yeah. Like if, if it, if you're going for like a couple and you're just starting out and you're like, maybe you go to like a sex shop and you look at all this different rope and there's like a fucking horset stick dildo over there, and like the, the lights are fluorescent. Maybe it's a little overwhelming and you're just like, you know, fuck this, we're going home. But you don't wanna have fun then. You can take your shoelaces off of your shoes.
You could take your partner's thumbs and put their thumbs together. Mm-hmm. And you could just tie their thumbs together the same way you would tieing your shoes. Mm-hmm. But that leaves you with one shoelace. You can take your other shoelace. And tie their big toes together, and then to make the psychological weight of the bondage a lot heavier, you could blindfold them. Mm-hmm. So they still have all of this movement, but they are essentially not going anywhere, you know?
So it could be to that. Effect. Mm-hmm. Um, an another example, let's say like you do buy some rope. You could take like the end of Anot a rope right here. And what I'm holding up for the listeners is just the rope with the knot at the end. Mm-hmm. And you could put this rope in between their big toe and their first toe, and then you could just wrap around them in a spiral all the way up their body. And you could hand them the other end. You could have the. Have it in their mouth. Mm-hmm.
Or if their arms are in front of their body, then you could have them hold the other end and you'd be like, Hey, if you lose either ends of these ropes, the scene is over. Mm-hmm. So then it's like, Hey, we're gonna have fun. We're gonna do some things, but like now you have to hold onto this. So all you have is a rope and a conversation. Yeah. And zero, zero technical skill, you know? So like, it doesn't have, I'm really aesthetically driven. Mm-hmm.
Um, I've been a, a tattoo artist for like over a decade, so putting lines on the body is something I'm a big fan of and I put a lot of pressure on myself to have it look a certain way. Mm-hmm. That is a super duper not necessary for anyone else unless you feel like it. Yeah, so, so ditching the, the comparison to others is gonna be the biggest thing. And just focusing on that connection with your partner that's in a really safe way. Mm-hmm. Uh, you mentioned learning some knots on YouTube.
Um, YouTube is really good to get you barely started. Yeah. Um, but like, I'm sure you probably found the end of that really quick. Yes, yes. So, so then from there with a single column and like your double column ties.
Um, a single column is just a closed loop, and that's where it gets kind of confusing is that like you could put as many columns as you want into a single column tie, so you could do a single column tie, run an ankle and the leg of a chair, and still a single column tie, even though you stuck two things in there. Hmm. If you had enough rope, I could go around six different people and tie a single column tie. And it's still a single column tie. Single column tie.
Okay. Yeah. So you, you could learn this un collapsible knot, which means like you tie the loop and you make like your cuff essentially. And the goal being is when you pull on it, the cuff stays the same shape. Mm-hmm. So your, your rope shouldn't constrict with that. So once you learn that knot, I mean, use your imagination. You could do a single column tie from your right hand to your left ankle. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And now they're, now they're twisted and kind of kind of bound up.
And then a double column tie is something that cannot spin around, and it's just two loops that are kind of closed in the middle. Hmm. And that's also. A little misleading as well because then it's like I could, I could do a double column tie where on one side is like your one arm in your torso and on the other side is your other arm. Yeah. So one, one small loop and one really big loop on the other side. Okay. So just learning those two and be like, oh, that's it.
And if all you do with those two is tie hands and ankles, Together. You're leaving a lot on the table. Yes. As far as like the, the creativity goes. Mm-hmm. And so then you could go full James Bond villain, you know, with just those two knots and just strap somebody to a chair. Mm-hmm. Or, uh, depending on like your bed frame and how sturdy it is, things like that, it should always be done safely into your own kind of risk profile.
But just those things to start out for couples is, is a. Really good
place right there. Yeah. We, we had a talk with doing some of these simple knots, like you talk about using the shoelaces. We had the discussion about that could be a fun power dynamic out in public. Mm-hmm. If you wanna do something simple, so like we, we like to go to a, your local bars and stuff around the area. Mm-hmm. And I had teased Carrie with being like, how much fun would it be to go out there and just gonna tie your thumbs together? We're
talking about. I think you said no, you said when you're being a brat, I'm gonna tie your hands together. No, you gotta, I'm gonna fucking sit there the whole time.
Like having, I would be like, you get to ask permission to like take a drink. Exactly. And you get to ask permission to do these kind of things, and I'm just gonna keep you tied up. But it was cute
because then that kind of got us like thinking like, we can role play in this sense. Like if we are out and about and I'm being a massive brat, like he literally could just fucking, all right, Carrie, you know? Yeah. And, and it's such like a fun, like, playful way that we can like, engage with one another that we had never thought about doing. Mm-hmm. And like you said, it's so easy.
Yeah. Yeah. And so you already know all the skills, you know, and you already have all the equipment and so it's like you don't have to step out of your comfort zone just to get started cuz you already have everything you need to get started. Yeah,
absolutely. So then what are some other things you can do around the house? Um, you had mentioned to, to us before about you being able to use like household items to Oh, absolutely. Tie each other up. If you don't have, you know, rope just laying around or you only have sandals the knowledge, you don's do it. Like what are, what are
man just saying,
there're people so assuming, you know, if like most people watching this have a, have a smartphone and internet connection, they probably also have pillow cases. Mm-hmm. So pillowcases are, are pretty awesome there. You're not gonna, oh, look at that.
He's prepared. Look at that. We have have
one right here. We, we love a man that's prepared and, uh, boy scout motto, baby. And so you can take that. Um, Carrie, if you would be so kind as to model this, you could put your wrists together in front of you. Yeah. And then Casey, you could go over the top of her wrists. Mm-hmm. Gimme those wrists, girl. Yay. Top. And then you're gonna take both of the middles, or sorry, the end of the ends of the rope and go through the middle of her arms. Mm-hmm. Just like that.
And then you could hold on to the ends.
Mm-hmm. Which means that I can take it.
Yeah. One. Yeah. So then for the, for the listeners, Casey has both of Carrie's arms easily controlled with one of his arms. Yep. So, so the bond, not to do with this exactly, but that leaves your other hand free for sinning.
100%.
Love it. Yeah. Um, another one. I like that one. Yeah. And it's super easy. It could also be done with ankles too. Mm-hmm. You know, so it's just like a super quick little loop and you'd be like, Hey, I can control these, these two limbs with one of my limbs in a way that is, um, a lot more powerful than if you're just using your hands alone. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, that one. Then what else you got?
Yeah. Um, Carrie, if you could cross your arms behind your back and kind of grab your forearms just below the elbows there. And then Casey, if you could put the pillowcase on over her arms.
Okay.
So about like, yeah. And then bonus points there. Yeah. Get it over the top of her shoulders. And then, so with that then if, yeah. I get. And then if you were to lay down on your back, I like the cape. Uh,
I dunno. She's going for the lay down too.
Yeah. So then with, with the lay down, then you're extra helpless, you know? So now it's your own. So yeah, your own body weight, keeping you captive. Yeah. So now that
that excess pillow case is now under your butt. On your back. Mm-hmm. So she can't really move anywhere. Mm-hmm. I like that. Exactly. I'm maybe I'll just let you stay like that. No. So for anybody that actually is listening, this is your opportunity to head over to our YouTube channel for, to watch this interview so you can actually get a visual. How you doing over there, Carrie?
I mean, this is fine. You just, you just bounce. I honestly, I really don't mind it. Yeah. Think we're about to end this interview.
Hey, and then for, for this, so that is basically like a box tie or a tk, which is called a Tecate Cote. Okay. So you could do that without rope, but it, that's that same position with like the arms crossed behind your back to kind of make the box shape. Okay. Okay, cool.
So real quick, just, I mean, we've covered a lot and you've been absolutely great. Um, hey, thanks. Are there any like, key points for people to hear and be like, don't tie up here yet until you're experienced. Stay out of this zone if you're not experienced yet.
I mean, I think sus, whoops. Suspension on its own is, Inherently one of the more dangerous things you can do. So making sure that you have the education on how to do it. Like I practiced all of my uplines with, uh, the heaviest, uh, kettlebell that I owned. Okay. Okay. And I, I, I purposefully like, took my shoes and socks off while I was doing it. So there was some risk involved for myself. I was like, I'm gonna raise the steaks. I'm gonna take this seriously. I'm gonna treat this.
Was it 28 kilos? So it was that 62 pounds of iron. With the same amount of reverences I would treat a person, you know, and then if I, if I drop this, this is either gonna fuck up my foot and or the floor. So that's how I started practicing for like safe suspension. Um, and then just don't see something and try it immediately. Yeah, yeah. Uh, make sure that you're able to reverse engineer it and kind of unpack it. There. Um, the other part is having some sort of safety tool.
Um, a lot of people will use, uh, safety shearers. Okay. Um, they're like mass produced and the handles are plastic and they're really shitty, so I don't personally like them. I have this cool little tool from Gerber. Oh, okay. And here, and then you just pull, push the little button and pull it out. And it's this super duper sharp hook, but it's dull right here. So I could get this. Underneath here, and I've had to cut a person out before and this will just straight liquefy the rope.
Like it just Wow. Really goes right through, opened her right up. She took a couple deep breaths and, and came right back. Yeah. And, uh, yeah, we, we continued the session after that and I, I attribute that to being able to like, really get her out. Yeah. This is a tool meant for like cutting your seatbelt off if you're trapped in a vehicle. Yeah. How? Okay. And like seat belts are tough as fuck. Ropes are less tough. So I would rather have, Like go into this. Mm-hmm.
You know, like with a tank versus then like having just like a smaller weapon
kind of thing. So, yeah, absolutely. So being well prepared is super important and anytime you're engaging in this kind of stuff, even,
even, even if you're self tying, and I think honestly, like, especially if you're self tying, having something close by, um, cuz these, they have like a cool little clip on the back that you could like literally screw this into like a holster. Mm. And I mean, I don't know how, like Indiana Jones or Laura Croft, you wanna look when you go to self type, but it's a lot better than getting nerve damage that is potentially irreversible. Yeah.
Yeah. Good. So under understand that safety first.
Yep. Yeah. And then just overcommunicate with your partner. Mm-hmm. Um, I, I would rather be annoying and check in too much than not check in enough.
Yeah. You know, we've, we've talked a million times on our show about how we like to use the light system. Mm-hmm. Whenever we're do, whenever we're engaging in any sort of kink, that being that like, you know, we'll check in with each other, Hey, what, what are you at in terms of color? Is it a green for go? Is it yellow for we need to maybe stay where we're at or is it red for stop? Or we even have, you know, we use blue.
So are you, you know, whenever somebody says that, meaning that they are emotionally triggered and we need to immediately engage in some level of aftercare.
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's awesome. I. You basically a address. The issues I have with the three color system, it's cuz there's only three colors. Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah. So having, having the codes like that, I'll check with like my, uh, my bottoms, uh, hands and feet to mm-hmm. Squeezing their pinkies. And be like, Hey, can you squeeze back? Can you squeeze my hand? Fine. Mm-hmm. Can you, I was like, what finger am I touching right now? Mm-hmm.
You know, because like with rope, some, some tingling is, and like even color changes to be expected. Mm-hmm. But numbness should be avoided at all cost. Yeah. You know, so making sure that we're, we're playing and it's spicy and it's amazing, but making sure that it's safe overall through knowledge and communication and safety. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
So, um, how would, if someone is interested in, uh, being your bottom, how would they go about that? Like, let's relay this information out.
Yeah. So you just, uh, slide into them dms. Okay. And, uh, then I, I flagged the little message so then I could have everybody in the, I could. Search flagged messages and so like your shit will pop up. Uh, cuz I send a lot of memes, so I don't want people's, uh, messages to be buried in the meme stream. Then well make sure you start
sending some of those our away, because we do the same. We engage it all the time.
Oh man. I'll, uh, yeah, I'll start sending the hot filth, uh, your way. There you go. But then from there, but like, we just have a conversation. Yeah. You know, and it's back to my kind of snarky remark about like, how long is a piece of string, like Yeah. Everything is a variable and we gotta align with, you know, my boundaries are pretty far apart. You know, there's like extremes that I don't like getting into.
Um, I'm not typically like a sadist, but if I know that somebody's like really, really masochistic and they could communicate. How they would like it to a high level, then I am comfortable stepping into that role. Mm-hmm. Okay. Um, but then it's just kinda, you know, what are you after? Do you want pictures? Do you, the pictures not matter. Is it all energetics? And we just have, I like to have the first part of the conversation over text so I could refer to it. Leading up to the session.
Yeah. And then generally I'll, I'll meet with people, like, we'll go to a coffee shop. Uh, there's a number of like Christian run coffee shops in the area, and I like to hold my interviews there because the irony is fucking hilarious. And I, I love it so much. So I will, I will generally suggest one of those places to go and we'll talk about the. The varying degrees. So,
uh, what's your, what's your handle?
Yeah. Handle on IG is a gto, nawa, it says G E D o underscore n a w a. So the GTO refers to the outer path, um, which is like outside of Buddhism cuz everything I do is so hedonic. So I thought that was funny. And then, uh, naah just means rope. In Japanese.
So, and then are you on other sites?
I am mean, I have, uh, I have an only fans I'll, I'll link that into the bio of Cool. My, it's just basically like a slightly spier Instagram for me, so it is free. Mm-hmm. Um, I'm probably gonna like, Pop the paywall back up and I gotta rebranded a little bit. Mm-hmm. Cause it was the same as my old Instagram that got shut down. Mm-hmm. Got it. So now I'm in the process of like, changing everything over to match again.
We, we do see a lot of people do that is they'll host their only fans where it'll be essentially the same, same photos they're putting up on Instagram, but uncensored, or it'll be like a little bit of extra shots in there. That are a little bit more spicy. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. And if you are a photography nerd, like you could post full frame images on only fans without the criminal Instagram crop. Yeah. Ugh. Makes me so fucking mad. We all hate it. Yeah. It's just like, you know what? You could still police everything, but like, give us a full frame photo. Would you please, please? Could you like, what the fuck guys?
I know as being a hairdresser, it drives me insane. Yeah, she drives me insane. I'm like, I am.
So God carrie's constantly loading stuff in and she's being like, I can't get the fucking hair all in the shot.
Yeah, yeah. I gotta shoot everything like wide as hell and I'm balling on a budget, so only got like one lens for my camera, you know? I'm like, this is, this is what you get. I'm not a photographer, so. Oh
shit. Well, awesome man. Go ahead, please. I was
gonna say, I'm like, I'm on fe life too, but there's just like a, a handful of riggers that I follow on there, and that site's kind of trash anyways. So I'm just there to like, look at cool people and be inspired. I don't really hang out. We, we hear
that often from a lot of people we interview whenever we discuss, um, it on something like Fe Life, they're like, eh, you can find me there. Eh,
yeah. Not, not the best to reach out. Generally, like I roll my eyes every time I see the little message. Yeah. Thing pop up. It's like the opposite of when I see a message pop up anywhere else, I'm just like, mm, the fuck is this gonna be, you know?
Awesome. Well, Jake, we appreciate you coming on the show. In fact, I'm sure at some point we would love to be able to invite you on again, uh, to talk more, more ChAARI, more types of ties, maybe give us some demonstrations even. How cool would it be to have like a video interview where we have a top and a bottom. And it's like, here, I'm gonna show this harness that I do, or I'm gonna show this tie that I do. Yeah, that'd be super
cool. Or how cool to be for just, I don't know, I
got tied up. Uh, I'm, I'm here to support everything.
Yeah. That's the cool part. That's the cool part. There's, uh, there's no metal in the ropes, you know, so I, I go, go through TSA real easy. So.
We'll have to come to a tour of a tour of your town, see some old friends and, and hang out.
Yeah. It's a, you have some colleagues up here. Yeah. So that would be awesome. And um, yeah, that'd be, it's great up here, man. I love it. Oh,
we look forward to setting something up, man. Yeah. All right. Well, Jake, it's, it's been a pleasure. Absolute pleasure. Um, guys, if you're listening in on this, you can find everything we just talked about in the show notes down below. Hey, make sure that you've subscribed to our YouTube channel for, come with kc our Instagram at, come with kc as we've said before, shoot us questions, shoot us messages. If you wanna get in touch with Jake, you have his information. Mm-hmm.
Or reach out to one of us and we'll get you, uh, we'll, hopefully happy to make the connection as well. So,
yeah, dms are open.
There it is. So for another episode of come with kc, I'm Dr. Casey Sanders. And I'm Kari Sanders.
All right, bye.