Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, dying time is here. That's right. We're talking about the hunt. Greetings and salutations, internet. It's your old pal, Patrick Hamilton, coming to you once again from Croatia. This is the Kill by Kill podcast, where we're dedicated to celebrating the least disgusting. The least discussed component of any horror film, the characters. And we've got a doozy for you here. We're talking about 2020's The Hunt and the hopes that an elitist...
Or deplorable's untimely end is just the beginning of the jokes we might make at their expense. And as always, there's only one person I trust to kidnap the right motherfucking crystal. The one, the only, Gina Radcliffe. How are you doing today, Gina? Aren't we supposed to have nicknames? Like, shouldn't you be, like, Long Beach? Yeah. I should be, like, either Brooklyn or Jersey. Atlantic City. Yeah. Something along those lines. Yeah.
That's a lot of code names to keep straight, if I'm being honest with you. I could barely get out the intro to the show, something I've repeated now for eight and a half fucking years, Gina. Well, you know. Sometimes it's like when you keep writing a certain word after a while, it just starts not looking like a real word anymore. Exactly. Right. And I think I wrote down deplorables so many times and it never learned the spelling of it.
And it doesn't want to. And I don't want it to, frankly. Holy shit, we live in this timeline again, don't we? We do. We do. We're back. We're back, baby. We are back. But... I don't mean to scare you any more than I already have, Gina, but we are not alone. That is right. we have a special guest. You may know her as an award-winning actor and filmmaker who's received multiple accolades on the 2024 film festival circuit for her short, A Shining Example, which is a darkly comedic take on the show.
shining and she has a new project that she's going to tell us all about that you're going to want to hear uh the one the only clark wolf how are you doing today clark Hey, y'all. I'm great. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so happy you are here. I would like to say that you are one of the horror Illuminati here in town. I mean, you're one of those people who I constantly see in the Instagrams, in the texts, in the threads of horror people I know and love.
And I wanted to have you on the show forever. And it just, I could never introduce myself. We were never in the same place twice. And I'm so happy that I finally got the opportunity to have you on the show because frankly, you were very good at this. Oh. Well, thank you. I appreciate that. And, you know, I can neither confirm or deny my Hunt-style text thread with the other horror Illuminati.
But no, this is a wonderful treat. And thank you both for including me. And yeah, I'm very, very excited about this conversation. We were talking a little bit before we hit record. And we're of... We're various minds about this.
particular motion picture, but I think we'll get into that just after. I want to give you the opportunity because you've got a crowdfunding thing coming up here that's hitting a deadline. Yes. And I want you to be able to tell people about it and get them on board. Thank you. so much. I really appreciate that. Well, yes, I am currently crowdfunding a holiday horror slasher movie called Fiendsgiving. And it is starring my dear friend, Sam Levine.
of Freaks and Geeks and Inglourious Bastards. And he's been a friend of mine for a long time. And this is something that I wrote and will be directing. And basically we're crowdfunding so that we can shoot our... opening sequence of like the first 10 pages of the movie and it's not so it's interesting a couple of people have said oh so you're doing like a proof of concept and I'm like well here's the thing
Not really. Like the reason that we're crowdfunding and trying to have a budget is so that in theory, we can actually shoot the first 10 pages of the movie. And then that's what ends up. in the movie, right? So it's, you know, and so it's very intentional in that way. I feel like if we were doing maybe a proof of concept, we would just call some buddies and like, you know, call in some favors, which...
Who knows? This is a challenging time in general, so we may actually end up needing to do that. But that's why we're crowdfunding. But what is so cool, I think, and what I am so excited about, first of all, as you mentioned threads and the interwebs earlier. every thanksgiving i feel like i see a call to action why are there not more thanksgiving movies and i and i agree and so you know i i adore eli roth's movie thanksgiving but i can tell you that what sam and i are doing
is very different. It's more... the strangers and you're next with the relationships and sense of humor of Bob Clark's black Christmas. So a little more, you know, it's a family around a table essentially. And, uh, and a mask. slasher called The Gobbler enters. So it has a sense of humor, obviously, but I think these kills are, speaking of kills, I think this opening sequence is going to be pretty awesome, and we meet Sam, we establish the world, and...
And the Gobbler is born. We create the Gobbler's Mask all in the first 10 pages. Wonderful. I think horror fans will really enjoy it. cinephiles as well, our backing, our backer rewards are a little different. Instead of a Blu-ray or a poster, some merch, we are offering essentially a masterclass in here's how you make a movie. I had the opportunity to do this a bit with A Shining Example, the last thing I directed, where we did live stream from set.
And so with this, we are live streaming from pre-pro. We're live streaming from VFX tests, from set, from post. You know, we opened a Discord so that not only can our backers talk to Sam and I. but also talk to each other and hopefully create an actual community of filmmakers and cinephiles and support each other. Because, you know, this industry is really going through a challenging time right now.
so I think we all kind of have to have each other's back. So not only am I proud of the fun of Fiendsgivings, I do think it's going to be really fun, and I think horror fans are going to get a kick out of it, but also I'm really proud of... of what we're doing behind the scenes, and I think our backers will get a lot out of this. I think it's a unique way to do this that should attract people who are interested in the process. Yes. Maybe for themselves, or just to understand.
understand how it all works. Lord knows, you know, I get enough questions about it on, on my weird end of the entertainment business. I can only imagine it from the filmmaker side. So I encourage people to do it because I think it sounds like a fun time. Thank you.
I encourage them to do it, too. They can find it on Indiegogo and just search Fiends Giving, F-I-E-N-D-S Giving. Our campaign is running through mid-January, so you've still got a little time to help us out, should you choose to. Excellent. All right. So now that we've, you know, gotten that up front and center, it's time to pull back the veil on a question.
Clark also asked before we started recording, why did I choose 2020's The Hunt? I really love Betty Gilpin in this movie. And every year, there's a... a woman's performance in a horror movie that we all get behind. Why isn't X nominated for awards for this horror film performance? And certainly, I think... This year you've got a couple of different options, and I think the substance has sort of taken the lead in that particular regard. And as we talked about in that episode, like...
Demi Moore's performance in the movie is a force of nature, and I believe she deserves all the accolades. But if I could go back in time and sort of help people re-evaluate... The Hunt, it would be to focus on the insanely amazing performance of Betty Gilpin in this film. I have compared it to a lot of things, but why don't we have... half a dozen Betty Gilpin action movies why is that not fucking happening that is a great question
And I, you know, I actually, I'm a huge Betty Gilpin fan as well. And I actually, what inspired me to watch this movie, because obviously it had so much controversy when it first came out, was I read her memoir. It's called All the Women in My Brain. And it is fabulous. It's so fun. Betty is such a good, she's an incredible actress, but she, and not but, and she's a fabulous writer. I mean, I don't.
know if anybody has had the opportunity to read some of her op-eds she she has written essays and op-eds and various um publications but this memoir was so charming it was so funny it was so heartfelt and she talked about for any anybody who is curious you know it is worth a read especially that chapter where she talks about getting the call to star in
this movie and how she read the script and how she was so excited and how everybody was telling her like this is going to be the thing that blows up and she and and the crushing feeling of having the movie pushed due to a controversy that, you know, commentators across the political spectrum kind of were like, well, that's actually not what the movie is once they saw the movie. I read this. I read a bunch about it.
I even read a conservative commentator was like, I think people should watch this movie, actually, because it might not be as bad as you think. But that all got blown out of proportion. And then COVID happened. So it was a fabulous it was such a it was such a sad but interesting take on this whole.
experience and um the only thing i can come up with is that betty really likes to do theater and she likes to do tv and that's like the only thing i can come up with with why we don't have one million movies starring betty gilpin it's just a really Really good performance. And it's both loud and quiet. She's both physical and intimate in how she delivers and communicates information.
with a minimal amount of effort on her part. It's really... Once she takes center in the movie, I think it's fun before that, but when she takes center... you feel like you're in safe hands. And I feel like so many movies have a tendency, they're scared by their own premise, they're scared because they're not sure they can communicate everything they need to, and it ends up...
No, I have. I'm sorry. I have not fed that dog. I have not fed that dog. Nor have I fed any other dog. We only have one. All right. My apologies. What the fuck was I talking about? What the fuck was I talking about? Gina? Any clue? The performance, Betty's performance and her being like the center, like once you're with her, you're in safe hands. Thank you. So many times.
There's a fear factor here in Hollywood. Fear just pervades everything. No one wants to be around it. Strangely enough, everyone seems to possess it. When you see a performance that's delivered without any fear, I think audiences tend to relax. I feel confident when I sit down and I watch a movie that knows exactly what it is.
let's bring up the substance again. I'm not comparing the hunt to the substance, but in only this factor in that within the substance, I'm very confident that Coriel knows exactly. the movie she wants to bring audiences to see. And it makes people relax. Oh, okay. Someone is absolutely in charge of what this narrative and story is. And that's what I get from her in this particular motion picture is confidence. And it's just a really wonderful and rarer than I would like experience.
especially in a late performance where, yeah, this is dicey material in a lot of regards. And at moments, it's absolutely winning. On a couple moments, it, in my opinion, doesn't quite work.
but it always works when she's on screen. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And you know what else I think, too, is, you know, this, as an actor, certainly not of Betty's status, but as an actor, I do see scripts, Betty and... i are about the same age and i see scripts that are written for us and they do not look like this so i think the writing really really shines and um and yes the casting is wonderful and of course damon lindelof who is a co-writer
on the film you know created mrs davis and betty went on to work with him on that series for that season. So, yeah, I think, and I do think you're right, you know, it's a weird thing about the fear, the fear around material that is going to make... Make a point successfully or not. That's up to the audience. Right. But but yeah, this is not this is not and was not a safe movie. And, you know, it's produced by Jason Blum and Blumhouse. And I feel like arguably.
this is maybe the last time they've done anything like this. You don't feel like Night Swim touches the same third rail of politics that this does? I mean, that's just exactly like, which again, no, no disrespect. Of course. Like it's, it's a different, it is different movies do different things, but gosh, like, um, You know, I feel like Jason took some swings with The Purge in 2013 and, of course, with Get Out.
which nobody in town wanted to make and and jason jason put up the money and did it and then something like this and then gosh the just the the blowback and i guess got so loud and he got nervous and um so or and rightfully so i suppose but yeah it's just too bad i think it's too bad that this movie kind of suffered the fate of not letting people see it uh and make their own choices and to your point uh you know recognize betty gilpin as a leading woman you know
I think to a certain degree, there's a touch of some out-of-control cursed nature to the film that it simply cannot control. Yes, I like that. Some of it is just like... The facts, Eds. People, you know, it comes out at a time, it's trying to make a point about how internet rumors can get out of control, and it suffers that fate. It was initially reported in some locales, and I won't name them because fuck those.
places but um it was referred to as elites versus deplorables as if that were the title or red state versus blue state i think this is what was how uh
executives were referring to the movie, not ever what it actually was. Because Red State vs. Blue State makes it sound like it's a sequel to the Kevin Smith movie. Exactly. When I was reading up on this too, just to interject, I was like, there's no... way that's true because a movie that just came out within the last 10 years called Red State so there's just no like it was a silly rumor that I don't know how anybody took it seriously well because they don't have to worry about
reality and yeah they want it to be in a sense they want it to be true because there's no other group of just absolute internet-strong, weekend-life dorks who want to constantly cry, I'm being repressed. They just love it, love it so much. And then you have, I think, the Lindelof factor, which... I think it could be argued he's one of the best of TV's actual golden era in terms of his output between Lost and Watchmen and Gina, one of your favorites of all time, The Leftovers.
Yes, I am the world's biggest Leftovers fan. I keep meaning to rewatch it at some point. I just don't know if I can take that right now or at any period over the last... You now almost four years. Five years. I'm sorry. Correct me. I stand corrected five years. What is time, Gina? What is time? I mean, again, as you say, we're back right to the beginning. We're back eight years ago. This is our first year.
We're going to be talking about the third part of Friday the 13th Part 2 next week. Everything. Your son is in kindergarten again. It's just all back. It's all gone. I can't wait to re-enroll him in kindergarten because I always wanted to have a child who's six foot two in kindergarten. There you go. There you go. Bombas makes the most comfortable socks, underwear, and t-shirts. Warning, Bombas are so absurdly comfortable you may throw out all your other clothes.
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earning points on rent and at restaurants just got a lot easier with the built MasterCard. Terms apply. Start earning points with the Built MasterCard by going to joinbuilt.com backslash pillows and beer. That's J-O-I-N-B-I-L-T. He is able. to create such emotional resonance on television. He gets the space and he gets the time, and I think he does that very well. When you move over to movies, obviously...
It's not that he's bereft of ideas or he doesn't know how to write. I think he's just, weirdly enough, you know, he's done what I would consider pretty good things. I would call Star Trek 2009, even though it was a... really bad time for me. It was a great time for him. And I think Prometheus has grown on me over the years, whereas Cowboys and Aliens, not.
not his finest moment. Star Trek into darkness, not anyone's finest moment. I forgot he did that. Well, I like, I would like to think he forgot he did that because there's just, there's only so much sauce you can put on the sandwich. And I think that's trying to smush a lot of things into a sandwich. And, you know, it wasn't his idea. It was a comic book before he got to it.
I just think there are some things where you can't blend the two genres. Whereas horror and other things is the perfect thing. It's the perfect sandwich. You can put anything, almost anything in the sandwich, and it kind of works. And I think it takes a real light touch in order to make... comedy, and horror really work together. And I would say, for the most part, I think this is an instance in which it works for me. Yeah, see, my problem is this was a first-time watch for me.
And I think that maybe if I had seen this four years ago, it would have worked better for me than it did. Like I said, I have no issue at all. with Betty Gilpin's performance I do truly think she makes the entire thing worth watching and I think that you know giving her a role that you know, in a lesser movie would have been, you know, basically played by a man. Not that she comes off as a masculine character. But where's normally cast? Right. The sort of like, you know.
taciturn, you know, I'm not gonna deal with all this, you know, bullshit infighting with everybody, you know, I'm just gonna, you know, look out for myself and get shit done, you know, which is not typically, you know, coded as, you know...
feminine traits for better or for worse uh so no i i think that she's great i i think that you know i i i you know enjoy the fact that um They kind of pull a little bit of a scream in which they kill off probably one of the more recognizable actors in the cast pretty early on, which is Emma Roberts. But I think that the satire in this is very clumsy. And again, it's probably, I think I would have appreciated it more four years ago.
But at this point in time, I'm just kind of a little done with the cancel culture jokes and the Me Too gags. And it's just like... it feels very South Park-y to me in that they're trying to take a, well, you know, everybody, both sides are bad their own way. And I just like, eh, yeah, sure, I guess. All right.
Can I just go back to, you know, seeing people kill each other with a food processor blade? Right. That is the most... I hate to... It sounds horrible to say. I enjoy the violence far more than the satire. I... I think that is worthy to say. Absolutely. I mean, with anything humorous, I think it really depends on the person, you know. Also... I think there are moments in here that feel so hot button for 2019 that they feel quaint to the point of...
How have we not moved past this? I felt the same kind of rage that when we had talked about Black Christmas and we're like, this still is ahead of its time, primarily because time keeps... pulling us back into this same fucking debate over and over again. Right, we're just stuck in an endless loop. Right. And so I think that is the part that I think is clumsier.
now than it was at the time um but there's a there's a lot of good stuff going in here the other part is is you have a director in craig zobolt who has The weirdest run-up to this, because I would not call anything he's done before this. He's got a genuinely unnerving film in compliance, a one-and-donner for me. Glad I had the experience. No need to ever revisit that motion picture.
That is not to say it's not worth anyone else's time and attention. It absolutely is. But you don't walk away from that going, I need to own the Blu-ray because I need to revisit this. And then 2015's. Let's get three of the hottest people on earth to be in a movie together. And sadly, it's kind of boring in Z for Zachariah. It just doesn't cook. Whereas this...
I think has a lot more juice than it doesn't. And Zobel has obviously done a ton of stuff in the HBO sphere with Leftovers, Westworld, and Mare of Easttown, and The Penguin. Like, the dude knows how to direct. And then you have the timing of this, which I think is the most cursed of any component here, in that it's supposed to land in theaters in September of 2019, and then it's held back.
after one of those very rare mass shootings that never happens anywhere in the world but America, where it happens constantly. this time in El Paso, New Mexico and Dayton, Ohio. And they pushed this back six months to March 13th. 2020, a date where nothing world shattering happened at all. It's just so funny. Like, it's just, it's so funny in hindsight. It's like nobody, nobody was, was meant to see this.
It's such a cursed image that if you went to go see it seven days later, you're going to kill yourself or something. It was just the fates protecting us. You could not... If you wrote it down, it would seem really trite. Like, you need to try harder. But... In point of fact, this actually happened to all of this. And the fact that this basically limps into movie theaters at a time where the vast majority of audience is like, well, they haven't told us exactly to stay away.
but I don't feel comfortable going. And then everything shut down. Like literally by Sunday, everything is shut down. Yeah. I think the following week I was driving to Burbank. on a freeway because Amalia said that she would sew me masks. And I dropped off champagne at her front door. I didn't even see her. And I picked up the mask. I got there in 20 minutes.
I've never driven anywhere from the South Bay to Burbank in 20 fucking minutes in my life, and I never will again unless, I don't know, bird flu gets out of control. Let's not put it out there. Yeah, and you know, the other thing is too. we live in such a different media landscape today that we are recording this that, you know, had we been two years later or had the movie sat for a second and, you know, the way stream...
has become now the go-to platform. Obviously, I know that they yanked it from the theaters and said, okay, you can pay $20 to watch it, but... Now, I feel like a movie like this, even with the controversy, it would be... It would almost, you know, if it were a Hulu film or if it were a Netflix movie, I feel like it would be something that people would be talking about and kind of seek out and would be more successful or would have been more successful.
successful especially within the context of you know the world that we were maybe living in um so yeah it's just it's just timing is everything and unfortunately the timing here was was just so off I wonder if it was ever going to be good. And then to answer the question, come back to it at least, why talk about it now? Because no one is talking about it. I kind of want people to see it for themselves. Like it's out there. You can find it. It is.
It is a reasonably fun time if it vibes with you. And I think Betty Gilpin is so good that even if you didn't care for it all overall, you're still going to like her in it. And so it's worth it for that. Well, and also, you know, to Gina's point, like I watched this movie about two years ago for the first time, as I mentioned, kind of after I read Betty's memoir and really, really liked it.
you know and then I watched it again for for this conversation and I I I still really really liked it um but I felt so i i wonder if gina had if you had seen it before and then you were coming to it again within this context because i actually have the opposite reaction whereas i kind of was like oh this is so quaint because like you know what the
Loves feel like they're off right now, like currently. The thing that I picked up on from this was, you know, and that I really kind of recognized in 2024 vibes was just the disdain. the disdain across the board in this movie for each other, that the polarized characters represent, they feel such disdain.
for the other and um that is something that felt kind of like oh wow yeah you know what here we are aren't we like i i just because i think there was the movie kind of tries to touch on this the moral satire and And now I just feel like we're all numb. I don't know. We can't speak. I can't speak for all of us. But I just had a very. No, no, no. You're. That's accurate for me. I'm just, I'm, I hate to say I'm burned out because it just seems like such a, like a superficial thing to say.
But, like, the discourse, it's sort of like being stuck in the worst kind of Twitter discourse. in which everybody's just relying on the most toxic stereotypes. I don't know. I do think I would have gotten more out of this a couple years ago. Now it's just like... Yeah, some of this dialogue just feels like it was lifted off of a Twitter conversation. And like I said, I, you know...
Would it work for other people? Yeah, absolutely. I believe that. It might have been a question of just being in whatever mood I happen to be in at the time that I watched it. Not even, not even like, you know, just a general, you know, timeframe, just like. You know, some days I feel pretty optimistic about things. Other days I don't feel very optimistic about things. And I think this was, you know, the day that I watched this, which was yesterday. I did not feel very optimistic.
optimistic about things so you know i again i got far more pleasure out of seeing people you know blown up and and you know you murdered with kitchen appliances and and you know that was you know satisfying in a very cathartic way but but You know, on a plot level, it just really, you...
did not move me much, I regret to say. Well, and also, if I could just interject real fast, the idea that in 2020, we're having a political and ideological conversation, whereas now we... currently having a class.
based conversation as well so so you know the the things that we are all pitting ourselves against each other about have have bled over uh no pun intended and so yeah there there is there is an element like of of watching this today going like oh wow the before times huh like when you know right right right right you know like like i you know to me this would have hit differently for me if not for the fact that like the richest man in the world.
had had a you know was you partially if not entirely responsible for the next president being being being elected so again that whole like okay who are the elite here exactly that's the that's the thing that maybe was not connecting for me and that's true that's true in life too for me where where you know when you know when you see a lot of mainstream media
having a very backwards idea of, you know, who the quote-unquote elite are and how people like Trump and Musk are, and how there's quote-unquote... fighting them this is all very confusing and and a little gas lady And so, yeah, I think, you know, for that as well, it's like, okay, well, now we've switched places here. So, you know, yeah, I think it's a lot of that, too.
the wild element of this movie's setup is that there's it is on the trail of the class element here but it never quite is able to button get that thread all the way through the button yep whereas now you can very clearly see how having that amount of money despite all of their moral righteousness They are on the alt-right train and they don't even know it. Like they've just slipped into what they hate.
the most about the people that they don't consider enough to actually really research who they are. I do think that the one thing it does get pretty on the nose is a lot of... liberals sort of, to use your word, to use the word you use, Clark, which is very good, is disdain for, let's say, Southern people. And for, like, you know, whenever, like, you know, a tornado or, you know, a hurricane hits an impoverished area of the South, you know, which tend to be, you know, red states, the attitude...
Very much is, oh, well, you know, fuck them. You know, if only they, you know, if only they'd voted for a Democrat, this wouldn't have happened. And, you know, that's not very liberal of you, frankly. Exactly. To, you know, basically say no. Florida should crumble into the ocean or you know who cares if all these people they all die of COVID they should have voted blue and it's like okay when you say stuff like that
you no longer get to claim that you're on the right side of history. So that part, I think, you know, was pretty pointed, and I appreciate that. I just felt that there was a lot of... resorting to lazy stereotypes not even stereotypes what has become cliches at this point and to be fair when the script was written and even in early 2020 They weren't cliches quite yet. Right. But now they have become cliches. I think when you're trying to dig into this kind of subject, you do wonder if...
You're hewing so closely to it for realism's sake that you don't just anchor yourself to the past as time moves forward. kind of wondered if maybe that would happen to Heretic, another movie, that obviously the debate about religion is a bit more timeless than this, but also feels like you are stuck in a Twitter conversation. can't remove yourself from to a certain degree. And...
I think it's more successful in some ways, but it's also trying to be a very different type of movie. For one, Heretic definitely could have used more Glenn Howerton. who shows up here and every scene he's in is definitely playing a different game than most of the people in the scene he's with. Oh my gosh. So yes, this cast. Can we talk about this cast? So I started watching the movie last night and I was like, wait a minute. Is that Emma Roberts? And then I went, wait a minute. Is that...
Justin Hartley? I just was like, how did I forget? that these two people who I very much know exactly who they are, are in this movie. I'm a big This Is Us fan and a Bad Mom's Christmas fan. So I love Justin Hartley. So anytime he shows up, I'm like, yay. But I had... totally forgotten he was in this movie and like of course i did because he blows up in the first 16 minutes um and he's not even fun fact he's not even credited in the movie um because i was
like this is justin hartley right and then he's not on imdb then i googled it and it was like uncredited um ike baron holtz love so much uh amy madigan oh my gosh hello love so much hillary swank of course like i just this is a this is betty obviously but this is a stacked cast like across the board and um i really i i the one thing i would fault the movie on and i'm very
if maybe a longer cut existed, is that we really do spend so little time with our original primary folks. And usually when you do like an Agatha Christie kind of like... And then there were none sort of like we pick them off one at a time at a time. You spend a little more time with them. But but yeah, I mean, I just I love this. I love this whole cast. I think they're all excellent. I think weirdly enough.
They're amongst the both sides of this sort of outsized war. You spend about as much time with Ike Barinholtz as you do with Glenn Howerton. And they're just distributed differently. Yes, exactly. What it comes down to is like, it's not that both sides are wrong. It's that both ends of these particular groups. They've just managed to find one another like the opposite ends of magnets. And the person who is completely out of place throughout it is Betty Gilpin's crystal.
Everyone else, you're kind of like, I'm okay with that person blowing up. I'm okay with that person's head being punched in. And in a way, it's this weird diehard where... both the hostages and the hostage takers, you're happy to see eliminate one another. Well, the word that you are describing is polarization. You know, I was I was thinking about this a lot today, like the idea of, you know, well, you want to you know, you can't you can't.
This movie is dealing with polarized people across the political spectrum and that's what I think is a little off-putting about it because it doesn't do the sort of subtle or it doesn't do subtlety and it doesn't do nuance. um but but and that's something that i think that should this movie have come out in 2024 or should we be having a different conversation um or we rewrote this script today i think that is where uh the the and again
It's a big, broad like satire where people are literally exploding. Right. So so obviously you can only take it so seriously. But yeah, we are every character you meet with the exception of Betty, because and I choose to believe that she. is telling the truth and she is not meant to be there is all so polarized that they cannot think rationally and that is something that I think is really interesting and compelling but arguably we just went through an election where It wasn't about...
polarization, which we'll be unpacking for many, many years. So that I also think is the thing that hasn't quite aged as well, if that makes any sense. And I think just use the term deplorable, which is so unique. to a specific moment in time that it just ages like milk in the sun for whatever reason. And it just, it puts people in a very specific spot. Whereas, you know, when these characters are introduced, we're not entirely sure why Yoga Paints, aka Emma Roberts, would have been picked.
you start to get a sense that she's not particularly caring or careful. And you're not sure about what, but there are glimmers of it. Right. Justin Hartley, who I think it's weird he's referred to online as a character called Trucker, and he's now playing a character called Tracker? Also, you're like, trucker? Wait a minute. He's in a photo where he's clearly gone overseas and hunted wild game a la Don Jr. That is not a trucker anything. Like, I don't know. That was a little interesting.
I don't know. A little inconsistent. Because he's wearing a trucker hat. I'm not entirely sure. I wonder if so much of this is surface level to a certain degree. And that is... you know, at the heart of its attempt at satire. And I don't know that the satire works as well as it does as a full bore fun action movie. That's where I think. It does a fantastic job. And there are sequences in it where the glee at the mayhem unfolding, I think, is accomplished in a fun way. How...
the sort of focus of the motion picture transfers from a different Randy, Gina. Different Randy. Then screams Randy. Although he dies just the same. You just get to see it this time. And that, I mean, when you see somebody's eyeball taken out by a high-heeled shoe. And you're telling me I'm not supposed to like this movie? Come on. You hand me an eyeball on a high heel. Yeah, I mean, the action sequences are terrific. I really...
I really appreciate them. And, you know, and I do appreciate the, you know, kind of zagging on the audience a little bit by making the, you know, the villains of it, you know, the... you know, the liberal Democrats. And then, but then, you know, again, and I keep, I sort of keep, you know, harping on this. And, you know. My political leanings have grown further left over the past eight years. And we continue to get wonderful comments about it. Yes.
What a wonderful topic this is going to be, by the way. Again, I've said it before, not a great producer of this podcast. Wandering. Right into it. And you are releasing this right around Inauguration Day. Well, yeah, it's fucking perfect.
But no, I'm not even going to speak out against the Republicans. I'm going to say that as I have gotten further left, my distaste for centrists and resistance liberals has... grown significantly over over time and again you know exposure to them on the internet has on social media has a lot to do with that and a lot of their you know, very baked in hypocrisy. And I think, you know, I think that this touches on that.
but not as good as I would have liked it. So, and that's sort of what I was alluding to, to like, oh, this feels quaint because you're right. Like that, if this movie were made today, it wouldn't be as simple as red and blue, right? Or, you know, it would be it would be more nuanced. And I don't think you can pick sides. I don't think you can do a, you know, a one for one, because exactly what you just said, there is so much discontent.
especially on the left side of the spectrum from center left to far left, right? We are not getting along right now. Right. I mean, I would say that at this point, the reason why... the republicans are winning is because they're united correct and we are not united at all and you know certainly after you know what has happened with uh uh this recent vote in which an 80-year-old man with esophageal cancer was deemed to be a more suitable committee leader than a vibrant young woman.
you know, it's not going to get any better anytime soon. And so I, yeah, it's just not as simple as this is our side, this is their side anymore. You know, now it's a, you know, we've got a problem here. Where, you know, we are willing to throw each other under the bus regularly, you know, for the sake of, you know, not being willing to compromise. And I would also like to think...
that the things I find important in this life aren't just important and good for me. I would like everyone to have affordable health care. Not because I specifically alone and the people I like should have affordable healthcare or even free healthcare like every other, you know, first nation country around the world. I want... everyone to have that. It is not a me and me alone here. It's I want this stuff.
for everybody, whether we get along or not, whether we can hang out or not, whether or not we both are on the same moral spectrum or not. I just think it's important that everyone have this, and then we can take on other tasks. But we're not quite at that space, and it feels at moments like we're getting farther and farther away from it. And all it takes is a viewing of the hunt for it all to come raging back. Again, real smart programming choice.
You know, I did want to just mention, too, towards the end of the movie, the grilled cheese speech. Yeah. You know, one thing that I noticed on the topic of like maybe how things would be different, and I even wrote it down, was, you know, there is a question of, well, this rumor about you doing this thing.
is everywhere and and of course athena says yes but it wasn't true and but and crystal says but look around and she's like yeah but it wasn't before but now it is and you know it's so it's a really hilarious wonderful piece of writing i would argue i think it's really interesting and even and how betty plays it where she's even confused but then kind of comes right back and says okay yeah that's right and uh
Now, that conversation would be two lines long, which is, was it true? And the answer is, does it matter? you hate you you know what i mean like and that is i think the biggest difference between if i had to put pick one thing that that stood out to me it was like yeah man it it does it now like 2024 and almost 2025, it doesn't matter if it is true. This movie sort of progresses in an interesting way that I like thematically, in which the person at the front and center of the narrative...
transfers as they get knocked off. We start with Randy, then it goes to Yoga Pants, Yoga Pants to Trucker, Trucker to Staten Island, and then finally we're sort of reintroduced. to Crystal, who we first see taking apart her name tang so that she can use the pin to find where North is. And that I think is kind of key to her character.
She has incredible survival skills for a variety of reasons, including military service. But I think her best skill is the fact that she does not take anything she sees or hears. at face value. She absolutely examines it beyond the information you could quickly glean from it. And that is her ultimate survival technique. The fact that she... just doesn't take what she sees as the truth. She wants to get beyond that because she can sense there's more going on here. And she takes that attitude.
to sequence after sequence after sequence, and it benefits her. And ultimately, I think up until the point she, you know, stabbed somebody with a Hurricanrana, that is her ultimate. you know, secret skill. Yeah, but can you find anybody like that anymore who knows how to take information subjectively and, you know, make a reasonable conclusion from it?
I mean, I'm not even sure I can do that anymore. I think you can, you just don't find them online. Right. And all of these characters are terminally fucking online. All of them, with the exception of her. Right. I think that's her saving grace is that, you know, she, you know, whether for bad or good, she does not have, you know, a horse in this race. You know, that's not to say that she doesn't care about her fellow man.
But, you know, she is the rare, you know, she'd be the type of person on the panel who would be what they call the undecided voter. Now, she should be, you know, the ideal one. because she doesn't really seem to, if she doesn't have any, if she does have strong opinions, she keeps them to herself, which is, you know, we don't see that anymore from anybody on anything. at any time. So, you know, in her, again, taciturn nature sort of ultimately saves her life. Yeah.
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See site for details. And I think it becomes more interesting the longer it goes on. And then there's the sort of teeter-totter conversation. that she has with this National Guardsman who's become their military advisor. So funny. Can I just say, like, some of the stuff about, like, the Hollywood military advisor, National Guard, thank you for your service. Like, it just, you know, the dialogue here is so...
funny in terms of the Hollywood of it all. I very much appreciated that. How many... You don't have to reveal this. I will say, I've run into... quite a few of these guys over the years. One of whom I took some sort of boot camp from who had told me when I said, oh, I really like horror movies. And he's like, do you like Near Dark? And I'm like, yeah, it's an amazing movie. And he's like, well, you know, she didn't direct like nearly any of that. It was all Cameron. Oh, no. Did you punch him?
No, he would have caved my face in. Oh, because he was the boot camp teacher. Right. And I'm like, yeah, I've seen all of their movies. that's not really a James Cameron movie. Are you telling him, like, he's helping out because, like, he's on set and she's his wife and everything? Because it's still entirely when you see the movie.
within all the other movies she's created. It's not, there's, there's no like space for it's like, it really just seems like a James Cameron movie. No, it absolutely doesn't. That's wild. And there are like. no sequences near water. So it is obviously not. I just think like in his mind, he's thinking about camera setups. And in my mind, I'm thinking about, yeah, but those.
characters aren't Cameron characters. Nothing against Cameron characters. I love plenty of them, but they're very different philosophies. At play in near dark versus true lies. These are just.
Different kinds of cinema. I mean, Jiminy Cricket, how many camera setups could there possibly be? You know what I'm saying? It's like saying there's only three stories. Well, you know, I've seen this one before. Of course you've seen this one before. There's only three stories. Yeah, she didn't want to put in a fill light. He said, maybe you put it.
in a fill light. That's not directing a fucking movie. It's hilarious. That's wild. We're back to fucking... toby hooper and poltergeist and my brain's gonna leak out of my goddamn nose doing second unit isn't directing a movie everybody let's just get this on the fucking floor there's a reason why we have a t-shirt in poltergeist font
that says a film by toby hooper amen now that my dander is up about something that isn't politics we have a lot of soap boxes it's good though i feel like it's very on brand for the hunt episode isn't it i really did not figured that this was going to turn out to be the heretic part too but I feel like a lot of
Our lives are being laid out on the table. Yeah, I think it's kind of unavoidable. And honestly, in talking about it with you two, I'm appreciating it a bit more. So that's probably, that's a good thing. Listen, I got on threads too. and just started yelling because people misinterpreted my comments about Brandon Routh's Clark Kent. And I just, I got so on my soapbox about, and I got so sweaty and I got so mad.
And I was just like, Clark, you are yelling about Superman on threads. You're not even yelling about it on Twitter or a platform that matters. You're yelling about it on threads and you're so... activated right now so i have to say our soap boxes are valid i feel you this is a safe space and um whether and you know what your audience is probably going to be like
Who is this woman? What is the opposite of giving her money? But that's fine. We're having a moment together. Just in three months. On Blue Sky, my banner says, I love being mad on the internet. I totally get it. Yes. And I don't know that I do. I think I exhausted myself of being. truly mad on the internet at this point I'm just like I now just tend to block or mute rather than engage anything that I know is posted to get a reaction
Out of people, so I'm just like, no, I'm not letting you disturb my peace today. I'm going to admit, it got me today. I admit. Sometimes it does. Sometimes it does. We've all been doing this for so long. We've all been. We've all been nerds on the internet for so long. Like we know what we're doing. We know better. I knew better, but I did it anyway. So that is my, the hunt. I mean, listen, at this point.
It basically comes down to if somebody mentions Hello Mary Lou Prom Night 2, I have to speak up. Oh, the greatest movie ever made. Yes. And we've, you know. I'm not kidding. I love that movie. We've been sounding the horn on that bad boy since 2017. Hell yeah. But what are you going to do? And then every time somebody posts about. Jason Voorhees, and then they put a picture of him in a jacket on there. I have to...
do breathing exercises, Gina. Or when someone only says he kills only teenagers. Oh, Jesus Christ. I have a pencil in my hand and I'm not going to break it. Safe space, everyone. Safe space. Yeah, I had to. I think I sent it in the group chat, Patrick, the other day, but I had to step back from arguing with someone who... claim that, uh, who asked in all seriousness, if he thought that Barry Hogan would have a, a,
a career after breaking up with Sabrina Carpenter, since that is, quote, all he is known for. Oh my gosh, what a wonderful, what a wonderful experience that must have been. And I was like, you know what? I was willing to, I was almost willing to, to, to, to get zooked off of Facebook for 30 days. to post a gif of Barry Hewitt with his entire dick out. But at the end, I was like, you know, I'm not going to be mature. I'm going to step away from this.
I'm probably not going to get in a relationship with him. But I'm also really unsure that breaking up with Sabrina Carpenter is the thing that's going to do it. You know, I would just like to say that I would get in a relationship with him. So Barry, if you are listening. You can call me. You know, I think you'll have a career. I support your career. And I will not write any songs about you.
Again, this is my The Hunt. Don't make any promises you can't keep, Ork. Oh, hey, try me. This is something I would love to try and fail at. You know what I'm saying? In terms of... What were we talking about again? Oh, that's right. I will just say they know that gore is going to be a component of this and they go out of their way. to make it practical, to make it fun, to not, they don't go in the giallo direction with blood. It's always dark, dark red, which I always, always love. And...
I think a lot of these deaths are fun and energetic. And again, it reminds me of Hard Target, of what I enjoy about Hard Target. Like, it's not as operatic as that is. Nothing really could be. including real opera you see on stage. That being said, there is a joy to the sort of offing of everyone in this motion picture that isn't Betty Gilpin. And at the end of it... After this monumental, fantastic fight at the end of this, she, you know, tortures the giant gash in her stomach.
puts on a beautiful-looking dress, grabs what looks to be a fun dog, gets on a plane, and shares a snack with a stewardess. And that, I think... says everything you need to about her. She doesn't ever cut, this horrific experience does not cut her off to saying to somebody else, Why don't you have this experience with me? This will probably be nicer than what it's went through. And I got to say, like, I do want to give the movie credit with respect to the kills.
because in a way that the movie doesn't take itself too seriously. It could have, I would argue, it could be so easy for this to cross over into self-righteous, self-serious territory. Yes.
whether one thinks the satire is successful or not and so on and so on, that's fine. But one thing it is not is self-serious. And these kills, I think, are so supportive of that. Like, any time you might... touch start to touch on a real conversation that you've had at the Thanksgiving dinner table somebody explodes so it's like you can you can only you know be so miffed and I think that that was a very very smart
I think that was kind of masterfully executed by Craig. And yeah, I think the tone, that's one thing I'll say. I know it might not be for everyone and that's fine, but I do think that they strike a wonderful tone. The performers all... know what they're doing sometimes they know a little too much and that's fine but um i would rather them be a little wink wink we know what we're doing and we're hamming it up then this is art and i have a point to make you know and this is so i i love the kills
in this movie because I do think that they sort of balance out and keep anything from crossing over into self-serious. You mentioned it earlier, but it should be noted. The cast here is kind of... Fucking crazy how good it is. Betty Gilpin, Emma Roberts, Hilary Swank, Justin Hartley, Ike Barinholtz, Ethan Supley, who I always love showing up and stuff. Glenn Howerton, Amy Madigan, who I love, love, love.
And, you know, Macon Blair shows up in the most officious Macon Blair performance of all time. I love that part. Sturgill Simpson, a person I've heard three songs from, but I would actually. hear more of his music based on his weird Orlando performance in this movie, which feels very informed. Just great across the board. I love all of this cast of characters and Hilary Swank. I mean, can we talk about, like...
So I love the choice to shoot her from behind the, you know, halfway through the, until halfway through the movie. I love that we have two time Academy award winner. Hilary Swank in this part. Wonderful. Love it. And I, you know, I think that her juxtaposed against Betty.
They are both formidable women. They both have a gravitas to them. They both carry a lot of emotional weight and presence on camera. And yet, they are these two... little fit white women except one has brown hair and one has blonde hair and then now we're just gonna watch these two ladies just take the shit out of each other right like how wonderful how what wonderful casting and hillary is great like she
I love her character. I love the boardroom scene. I mean, it's not really a boardroom, but like her getting called in and taken to task. And talk about another thing that would be different in 2024 if this movie came out next year in 2025. would admit defeat nobody would would admit any wrongdoing you know it's just i kind of okay have is that where i've come to do i want to remake the hunt I think that's kind of what just happened. I mean, it is certainly ripe to be updated. Right?
I think we should just make this movie every five years. What do you guys think? Right. Yes. Just bring everyone back and it's fucking Rosencrantz and Guildenstern. Oh my God. How wonderful that would be. You just do it.
slightly different way i'd pay for a ticket i honestly would i i think this movie is genuinely fun that betty gilpin monologue where she can't say i'm angry because she's probably been told all her life how this anger is destructive in her and she's taken these extreme leaps including you know joining the armed forces to try to contain this anger but it's still within her and she knows when i go back to my job i'm not going to be able to shoot a guy who makes me angry
But I'm surrounded by people I can very easily shoot. And I just have to take this. This is a mitzvah for me. Yeah. And I just like, wow. Give that woman a fucking Oscar. I love that monologue. It's probably less than a paragraph. And I still think she, it's a meal to her. More Betty Gilpin, please. I enjoy it. Now. No meal on Kill by Kill would be complete unless we played Choose Your Own Death Venture, and that's where we decide.
of the deaths portrayed in the film if you were forced to die in one of those ways which one would it be and why up for bid and buckle up because this is a list Stabbed in the neck with a pen, then in the eye with a high-heeled shoe. Shot in the head. Shot several times in the torso. Blown up by a landmine. Suicide.
but only your top half, multiple arrows to the chest and neck, death by poison donut, shotgun blast to the chest, poison gas, grenade to the crotch, knife to the forehead, car... tire to the head throat slash head exploded with bullet stabbed with arrow in the stomach shot in chest with remaining bullet shot through the heart at a distance shot
Somewhere we don't see. Shot in the head. Punched, kicked, slashed, headbutted, defenestrated three times. Stabbed with a blender attachment that was lodged in a different person, but hurricanroned into your gut. And Clark, you're a guest, and that means you... get to go first okay so if i if you'll indulge me uh i have a quick little story so um i am in a movie called tenants that came out this year uh and it is it's an anthology and basically the premise is this this
Otherworldly creature kind of crash lands in the bottom of this apartment building and everything in our reality gets heightened. So my segment is I play a wellness influencer named Belinda. who hates her roommate. And so I kill my roommate. And then she wakes up. And then she kills me. And then I wake up. And so we both just keep killing each other and we cannot die. So we were on set.
And we were choreographing the fight, and it is bloody. I mean, I strangle my co-star with my own intestines. You know what I'm saying? It's like that kind of thing. So I was on set and I was like, you know, this reminds me of something. I just watched it. What was it? And then I just thought, thought, thought. And I thought the final, the final fight in the hunt.
Absolutely. These two women just killing each other and beating the shit out of each other over and over and over again. And they die a thousand deaths, really. So I have to choose Athena. I have to choose Hilary Swank's death. just that whole sequence is fabulous um i love all of the and it's so funny and so well choreographed and so well performed not only by betty and um hillary but by their stunt doubles as well and uh i mean what a way to go
I'm just, what a way to go. And as I have just proven, I'm long-winded. And so is that death. So it really works across the board. So yes, that I choose Athena's death for sure. That works for me. Gina, what say you? Well, in reality, I could absolutely see myself accidentally stepping on a landmine. And frankly, I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet. But I do enjoy a good getting hit with an arrow death. sure we've had arrow deaths in movies in the past.
selected that. There's just a drama to it that I enjoy. So yeah, I'm going to take getting hit several times by arrows. That makes sense. No, that's consistent with you. I think I'm going to go in a manner which I'm destined to go, and that's Death by Donut.
I think one of these days I'm going to reach for a donut and that's going to be the last, that's going to be murder she wrote for me. Are you going to choke or do you think someone's going to put arsenic in the powder? I think it's one donut too many. Gina, I think. That's it. That's the heart. Just a lot. Lodges in that A-wordic valve. Yeah, I mean, my health journey has been on a good trend here, and I want it to continue, but I do know.
When I die, part of the reason will be donuts. I think it's very true to me. And so, you know, that just about does it. You can find us on most of your socials except for Twitter. Fuck that place. And rate and review us on iTunes or your podcatcher of choice. Join us over on Patreon for bonus episodes where we do movie commentaries. Bonus. stuff and answer your questions and so much more. Clark, where can people find and hear more from you and what you got going on?
Absolutely. You can find me across the socials at Clark Wolf, Clark with a knee, Wolf with a knee or some version of that. And and then all the Fiends giving things you need to know are in my on my socials as well. Or you can just visit Indiegogo. dot com and then search fiends giving f-i-e-n-d-s giving and you'll find our campaign again we're so proud of what we're doing we're really excited for the movie for it's going to be fun it's going to be gory but also we love our
our backer rewards as well. So we hope you'll join our Fiendsgiving family. Yes, do it. Today, Gina, where can people find you on these here internets? I write about movies and television and pop culture at my Substack, genawatchesthings.substack.com. And I am predominantly on Blue Sky these days under Gina Does Things. Do it today, people. Check it out. Don't worry. The body count will continue. For myself, Gina, and Clark, buh-bye, everybody. Bye.