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Well, greetings and salutations, Internet. It's your old pal, Patrick Hamilton, coming to you once again from the old Buckner place. This is the Kill by Kill podcast, where we are dedicated to celebrating the least discussed component of any horror film. I'm going to unpack all the goriest details of 2020. even though it was filmed in 2009's Cabin in the Woods in the hopes that a missed...
cast young person's untimely end is just the beginning of the jokes we can make at their expense. And as always, there's only one person I trust not to put me on speakerphone when I explain why cutting the flesh gives me the husband's bulge. The one... The only Gina Radcliffe. How are you doing today, Gina? I'm fine. I'm just sitting back and enjoying the sight of the majestic mood.
as they held the moon. So let's cut to the quick here. Before we get to anything else, I just want to lay this down. We accept this to be true going forward, okay? Okay. Joss Whedon is a bad person. He's a smart storyteller with an excellent eye for talent who is a bad person. Joss Whedon has made art that I love and that I share with my child as a bonding experience because the characters he created are incredible. But he is a bad person because of the actions he knowingly took. He's...
blatantly and deeply misogynist individual who got away with it wearing a t-shirt that said, this is what a feminist looks like. All right. I do not like the man personally. Once upon a time, he was a good storyteller and a shitty person. With that out of the way, Gina, when was the first time you watched Cabin? I did not see this in the movies, in the theater. I don't remember exactly when I first saw it. It was probably maybe 2015, 2016. I was probably, you know, what did someone say?
to it and you know it was fine at the time when when when I watched it you know I think that I might couple months ago i it was just you know looking you know felt like putting on a movie didn't really know what i wanted to And then I saw it again. It's like, yeah, I'm going to give this another go. And then I rewatched it. I'm like, oh, this is really... is mostly because of two actors in it and then that is I think
I suggest to you, hey, we should do Cabin in the Woods sometime. It's a good suggestion, especially because this season we've been going through a lot of Evil Dead and so much of the movie is Evil Dead coded to a large degree. It's also... Good to remind people that it's a really funny and interesting movie. And it came about at a time that I don't think people were quite prepared for the message it had to deliver. And part of it was it had such a rapturous initial burst. And then it got.
sunk by a lot of stuff that had nothing to do with the actual movie itself. And then whatever glory it did have was quickly undone by, you know, circumstances beyond the people in the film's control. That being said, I saw it in movie theaters. I'd heard about it for years and I was unlike Evil Dead, the remake or the reboot. Let's say I was absolutely prepared for this to change my mind. And so I was a little overhyped.
But the more I've watched it, the more I've actually appreciated elements of it, considering the speed at which it was made and then how long it sat on the shelf. it's kind of incredible. It turned out as good as it did. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Usually when, when, you know, you release three years after a completed filming is. in most cases, a sign of a high quality motion picture. And if there are people in the audience who they've seen the name Cabin in the Woods, but they haven't watched.
My suggestion for you right now is to watch Cabin in the... It is a damn good time. It is very funny first and foremost. And then it brings a lot of interesting ideas to the table. And I don't if you don't know really what it's about, that's the perfect place to start. Just hit play. Don't learn anything more. Yeah, I think if you're thinking, oh, it's a. horror movies yes sort of yeah but there's But there's a lot more going on there than that. So let's.
You know, if you want to pause and come back to us, because this is one I really would encourage people to watch. So come back to us, you know, rate, review, subscribe, go to Gina's newsletter. Join the Patreon. Here's the backstory of Cabin in the Woods. So... First off, you've got Joss Whedon, and he hires Drew Goddard to the writer's room, first and foremost of Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
And eventually, he's a big part of the spinoff Angel. Goddard would also be one of the driving forces in the J.J. Abrams TVverse as a writer on Alias and Lost. And eventually, he writes Cloverfield. So Goddard... sort of builds up a lot of steam after this movie is made. He would go on to be the original writer-producer that drove the version of Daredevil at Netflix for its first season before he gets hired away to do a bunch of stuff that never really sees fruition.
And then he has just recently been hired to write and direct a new version of The Matrix. which I am very conflicted about. But he seems, Drew Goddard at least, to be a good egg and very clever. So Whedon and Goddard have this shared dream at some point in their working relationship. They would like to make a horror movie. that changes the landscape in the same way that Scream did in 1996.
Don't we all have the strength? Of course. But their timing of this is in response to the millennial nasties period in the 2000s. So you've got your saws, your hostiles, a lot of found footage. and the Platinum Dunes era. Remakes like Texas Chainsaw, Thumbs Mildly Up, Friday the 13th, Thumbs Mildly Up, and Our Sworn Enemy, 2010's A Nightmare on Elm Street remake. A film... so terribly bad, so unbelievably miscalibrated.
It should be studied. I never want to watch it again, but I could talk about it again for hours, Gina. It's so fucking bad. Yeah, yeah. We barely scratched the surface of how repugnant that movie is. If you like to hear us spit fire, that episode is one to listen. Every once in a while when I need to exercise some bad feelings, I will listen to that episode and feel cleansed afterwards.
Now, it's not to say that there weren't good horror movies to be found in this period. We've talked about several of them here on the show. But when it came to major studio releases... Things were on occasion quite dire. So in that bouillabaisse, they... wanted to approach this in a scream-like manner and that included them
writing the majority of the movie over a weekend. I don't know if as much cocaine was involved as the original script for Scream. Who's to say? But, you know, Weedon and Goddard were pretty used to writing under pressure given that they... had come up a network TV schedule of 22 episodes per season. So, you know, they had given themselves a fair amount of time to think what they wanted to say, and it didn't take them long to lay it out.
So everyone's after it. It's a hot script. And one of the reasons why is that their aim wasn't to just lampoon one particular subgenre of horror. but literally the entire genre post-1974 with an eye towards in-isolation horror movies like your Texas Chainsaw, your Evil Dead, your Friday the 13th in particular.
And if I were to break it down, Cabin not only makes fun of horror tropes, but I think the very... concept of horror films in general and that a that a small group of young talented multi-dimensional people are gathered into a place that is isolated and they're boiled down to their most simplistic well-worn roles, all with the sole purpose of watching them suffer and die to exercise our collective worries and trauma.
It's what horror movies have been since the 1950s. So, you know, have there been movies that have broken that mold? Of course. But the grooves of the record are etched that way for a reason, because it works until it doesn't. And what Cabin in the Woods really does well is... give you a setup in which you have a bunch of multi-dimensional people who, over the course of the film, outside of their control, are boiled down into stereotypes that they do not occupy in real life.
And one of my favorite things about this movie is that you have one jock who's on an academic scholar. and another jock who's pretty jocky. But for the purposes of the plot, they are given each other's roles for no particular reason. Only because the guy who will eventually be Thor... looks too hunky to be the smart guy.
And the other guy is too good looking to not just be smart. And so they just are given those different roles in the middle of the movie. And everyone's like, what the fuck is happening? genius because in many ways we have discussed film after film franchise after franchise in which multi-dimensional performers are given a role that might barely have a dimension. And they have to make themselves shine within that. There's no more identifying marker to the modern horror movie.
than filling these particular roles. And I think the movie finds a way to do that in a funny and inventive way without being overly exploitative when it could easily be there. Right. And, you know, it doesn't always take a lot of the more obvious jokes that could be made. a satire of horror movies, but not in the same way that the Scream movies are. What I think works for both of them are you have creative forces that are at an impact. in their careers in relation to the genre.
In Scream, you've got a screenwriter who definitely loves the genre, wants to produce a script that sells. puts a lot of ideas into it, including the understanding that the characters in the movie slowly begin to realize, oh. were kind of in one, but they still disbelieve that fact up until the third act.
You've got a bunch of people who, whether or not they're aware of horror movie tropes or not, doesn't really so much matter. A horror movie has been manufactured around them and their natural inclinations. would be smarter reactions to the stimuli around them. Because they are being manipulated, they, against their will, are fighting against... these tropes and being slotted in these specific roles. And you can only fight so long against this system.
In essence, we are watching the process of a studio and audience demand something of a horror. yeah it's to me it's a little bit like you know you you what if scream but also the truman show and they realize that Something is obviously odd, but it happens in such a... fast and funny manner that ultimately they're caught off guard. They don't. have time to be quite as course corrective as they would in any other circumstance. If they had gone to any other cabin in the woods but this.
And similar, you know, things would have taken place. They never would have fallen into these tracks. The only thing that they absolutely do that everyone else does. is meet a guy on their way to a cabin who creeps them out, and they're like, I'm just going to drive away from this person, which is what almost all of us do. Yep, just, you know, we know.
Probably because he does not have the posture of a crazy Ralph. Now, crazy Ralph has a posture that says I should take this individual seriously. He's absolutely going to peep on me later on having sex. I get that vibe. Whereas the Harbinger here is just very dirty. He looks like he's been hit with a hammer recently and he's recovering, but not quickly enough.
The other financial estimate, the financial component of this movie that makes it a bit of an oddity is, first and foremost, you might think of Cabin in the Woods in isolation. a different kind of horror. But it's actually weird how this all plays out. So they sell this movie to MGM, which finances it. They make the movie with a bunch of actors.
Some of whom will become like very big deal stars and some who, you know, continue to work, continue, you know, from this moment on. But it's one of those moments where.
they capture a little bit of lightning in the bottle. But MGM, almost immediately upon completion of the film, goes into Chapter 11. Cavan's originally slated to be released in 2010, but MGM... goes bankrupt lines gate eventually gains it as a negative pickup they just pick up the cost of production but then they schedule it for october 2011 then immediately shelve it because they want to convert it into 3d which is what
Every movie did post Avatar. They just decided, okay, this has to be in 3D. Otherwise, it will not be allowed in movie theaters. So finally, this movie is put into theaters in April 2012, one month before Whedon's next directorial effort, The Avengers, hits theaters. And at that point, he just...
You have to figure that Lionsgate does not have a finger on the pulse of what's really going to happen. Because I think if you had released this in July or August after the Avengers, this would have done much bigger business. Yeah, yeah, I would think so, yeah. For nothing else, wait until you can say,
from the man who brought you the Avengers would be a big component of this. And then the other massive mistake of the trailer is they show the shot of the eagle hitting the force field in the course of everything else. And then... basically tells everybody there's a whole other fucking movie going on here beyond the cabin in the wood. And that's the part you kind of want to keep to yourself.
said many times in the show, there is rarely a trailer that does not contain any spoilers in it. They all spoil some elements. But this is one of those where I wish they had just, it's one fucking shot you don't need in the entirety. the trailer and they give it the fuck away so not a fan of that but at the same time you have two other movies that are in sort of a weird conversation with it tucker and dale versus evil and you're
And then there with Tucker, it's getting like this tiny release in 2010. And then it takes up a decades long residence on Netflix's nascent streaming service. And then you're next. Films in early 2011, premieres at TIFF that September, and languishes in hell for, again, its own two years. So by the time Cabin's budget is retrofitted into 3D...
Its budget is north of $30 million, and the movie clears almost $70 worldwide. It's definitely profitable by the time it hits home video and cable and its waning days, but it could have done a lot better. But also, I think a lot of movies that were trying to do this also got fucked. by production companies and studio mini majors that had no idea what to do with this product. And if this were merely five years later.
you would have your neons and A24s and this sort of mini-major horror movement that would have truly elevated this film to an even bigger stature than it got. run yeah it's interesting that we just recently covered it follows yeah because because i i stand firm i believe that it follows mark a a turning point and and horror filmmakers had a little bit of more creative freedom.
And when this was originally made, there was very little thinking outside the box of trying to draw in a new audience or draw back people. who were turned away by the glut of torture porn and really, really shoddy remakes and reboots. Yeah. It just felt like this is one of those inflection points. And I think its legend grows over time. I don't think it's as available as it could be because it has so many weird rights issues.
And it kind of languages a little bit on the outside as opposed to those singular voice horror films like in it follows like a black coat stuff. like a get out and, you know, like hereditary. And that movement just gets bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. And this is right at the tip, the tipping point. This is one of those things that causes people to say, what if I can say something?
It's not just there for cheap Friday night thrills. It is that. And I can give you that, but I can also give you a little bit more. And now we're in a territory where we're seeing a lot of that. And for whatever reason, it is tipped quite a bit into horror is trauma, which has always been a component of the genre in and of itself. It's been a lot of that. But there's also been stuff that's very popcorn heavy. Your companions, your hard eyes, like the monkey.
which did very, very, very well. Even Nosferatu, which is an intensely personal motion picture, did nearly $100 million. There's a, the moments has been here and whatever weirdness we had with the COVID year. And notwithstanding, I think we're seeing the end result of no horror. Isn't it can be for fun, cheap thrills, but also you can lay a lot of thought into this and get.
of it yeah what also is really good in this movie's corner and i don't think it gets enough credit for it is this motherfucker's 95 minutes oh yeah it just it just breezes right by it's like I watched it the first time, I wasn't entirely paying attention to it. And like a half an hour had passed. I'm like, okay. lost track of what's going on in this movie right and it starts in a way intentionally throwing you off and like this was one of Whedon's little piccadillos was
I would like to start this movie where our natural halfway point reveal would start. I'd like to start it. in such a way that people might be confused. Am I in the wrong movie theater? And then after its first screening, the studio comes back and they say to him, all right, we love it. It's funny, but we're a little concerned that people who come into the movie might think they're in the wrong. motion picture he goes well that was my intention and they're confused from that moment on
They can't say he doesn't know what he's doing, but they also can't come up with a better plan. The unimpeachable elements of this is that it is very good, that it is genuinely funny, that there's no fat on it. The cast is kind of perfect if heavily Caucasian. And critics loved it. One of my favorite quotes was Roger Ebert. Not always the biggest fan of horror, but in here, I think he found a bit of himself.
And what my favorite quote from his review is, is this film itself an act of criticism? And yes, yes, it is. But I don't think it's just. Again, I talk a lot about this, about a movie that wants to say something about horror movies and fans of horror. But it, you know, sometimes ultimately comes out as sort of condescending and and.
You know, these things are stupid and the people who like them are stupid. And I don't get that impression here. No, no. This comes from a love of the genre and simply wanting to dig into it a little bit more. The very obvious thing, like if you just put Cabin in the Woods into a search window, the first thing you're going to find is, oh, it's a horror movie about horror movies. And it is. But it's not one of those things where it's wagging its finger at the audience.
Like, oh, you're a bunch of degenerate. saying listen we all come to these things for a particular reason there must be a reason behind it We must all collectively feel the need. to exercise whatever stressors or fears we have within a safe environment, knowing that what happens on that screen at the end of the day...
is a fantasy that we can walk away from. And the conflicts that we see, particularly on the industrial side of this motion picture, happens when you've got a soldier named Truman who... sees what's happening and confines in a different scientist played by Amy Acker. Like, don't you feel bad about this? The putting these people through this terrible set of circumstances. And she's kind of like, yes, but also we all exist in terrible circumstances. And at least this.
And while that's tough to say about actual human beings, the nice thing about horror movies is we're not talking about actual human beings here.
Yeah, no, I mean, you know, people who watch horror movies are aware that none of this is really happening. And I think that this, you know, alarmist, you know, overstated I mean yeah obviously you shouldn't let children watch you know graphic horror movies but I mean people do watch these things because it is you know it is fun to be And yeah, it is a release. sort of outlet for your hatred of the world and your desire.
to see these things happen to real people. And there's a communal aspect to it. You're in a room full of strangers and there's always a magic to when that room gets carried away. By a narrative, they're all watching at the same time. They're not looking at their phones. They're not trying to escape that room mentally. They're emotionally within whatever the spell is being cast on the bright.
that room and horror is one of the best genres and I would put it up there with comedy and to listen everyone has their favorites there are it's a buffet everyone gets to eat but in terms of the communal experience that watching a horror movie all together and being under its spell. and amping one another up, whether it's... quieting down for fear you're going to alarm whatever terrible antagonist is doing away with the main characters.
or screaming at a cat and jumping out of a refrigerator, as we all did in 1999's end of times. I'm not giving up on that, Jim. You're still there for... Copy Coppersons. Chicago Badgify or whatever the fuck his name was. Yeah, there's something to that. And that is, in essence, sort of casting the spell. We are the audience that the machinations that are making this happen are Grata.
And some of that gratification comes in watching suspense. Some of it comes in the release of watching sex when you know you shouldn't be having it. Some of it comes from watching people get together under terrible circumstances. Some of it is the thrill of watching gore and violence. These things would be bad under other circumstances, but they do release an endorphin-like. that allow us to escape.
And ultimately, art both reflects that and allows us to... from it correct the movie absolutely gives the idea that oh horror movie characters are dumb but there's reason Because if you were to take this. As every horror film you've kind of ever seen is essentially what this movie is putting on. that there's a group of people watching it happen and forcing people to make bad decisions, we've all participated.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again here, though. In a horror movie, horror movie characters are unaware they are in a horror movie. So it's kind of tough to judge their behavior when they have been forced into a situation where most of them are unlikely to survive regardless of what decision.
Right. I was saying that, like, you know, not every vampire movie features characters aware of what a vampire is. Exactly. And, you know, you might have heard the cultural signifier, but you're not really aware of all the rules or even if the rules. that you know are what apply to the vampire you're dealing with at that given time. Again, we've covered enough vampire movies at this point to know that the only...
you know, through line across the entire thing is vampires are terrible planners. Terrible planners. Just fucking suck it. You can literally give them a day, a day book and they'll just, they'll forget to fill it out. Orlok arrives in town on a rat-filled ship. And he's like, honey, I'm home. And just assumes everything will fucking work out. And then he finally.
starts to get together with this lady that he has been peeping on via shadows for quite a few years. And he doesn't even have like a fucking pocket watch. He doesn't keep an eye out the window for a glint of fucking sun. He's not hearing one bird tweet. No indication that sunrise is a pond. I just heard Dunkin' Donuts open their door. Should I be worried? The thing is, even in the smartest of movies, your screens, for example, Randy makes dumb moves.
And he fashions himself a fucking expert because he's right about people and he's terribly wrong about motion pictures. And he has no sense of his surroundings. Yes, he really doesn't. In the clutch. He kind of sucks at it, regardless of how much he thinks he knows about horror movies. And in here, we don't really get a Randy because no one really ever thinks out loud or to anyone else.
Are we in a horror movie? Well, I think that, like, you know, Marty is a composite of Randy-like characters. Sure. Like, you know, the goofy... is the you know the fifth wheel in the in the in the in the friends group yeah what I really appreciate about Marty is obviously he's very well written and the performance is fantastic because his joke to success rate is in the 90s. He's just...
Fucking on it. And it's even weirder when you consider he's basically a more explicit version of Shaggy from Scooby-Doo. Pretty much, yeah. I mean, instead of implying that he's so stoned, he can hear a dog talk. We're explicitly saying he's so stoned. He thinks a wolf head is actually a moose. And every time I hear his monologue about society not fraying, but actually coalescing in the worst possible way. gets truer every single year. Well, you were saying that these...
These characters are fit into, they're not exactly square pegs and around holes, but they are maneuverable. into being different types of people than they actually are. So, you know, at first blush, Marty just seems like a dumb stoner guy. And turns out he's a smart stoner guy. Who made it a point to come to buy a fresh stash of weed. and therefore is not ingesting the chemically treated stash that he was given by.
So just to continue your thought here, Dana is our virgin, quote unquote, although she doesn't appear to be one. And at one point begs off of sex saying, I don't do that. And then she catches herself like, what the fuck am I talking about? I'm not a virgin. It is, you know, a spin on the.
casting of female characters in slasher movies where you have, you know, one is a slutty one, you know, and, you know, ergo there has to be... of that you know one is the virgin jules is you know quote unquote the whore and in pre-med not that those things have to be mutually exclusive but we're told immediately that she has been drugged via the blonde hair dye. that's been applied to her hair. And everyone around her is pretty astonished by her behavior. They have not seen her act like.
And then everyone keeps laying out like, oh, no, it's because she's excited. Oh, she's drunk. And Marty's like, we've seen her drunk many times. This is not the way she acts. is our dumb jock who's there on academic scholarship and has favorite textbooks. That's how much of a nerd he is. Holden is, quote unquote, the scholar, although he seems to be much more of a jock than Kurt.
And slowly over the course of the movie, his behavior and look becomes more and more conservative. He finds glasses. He never wears glasses before he puts them on. But he's like, oh, there's a book. I have to put glasses on. But no one knows he's brand new to the group, so no one really knows what his deal actually is. It seems less out of left field. But when you watch everyone else's behavior change, you're like, oh, shit. He's this obviously is not him. He's been cast in this role against.
his better judgment and his true nature. Correct. Other little fun tidbits. at various courses. Now, this is a worldwide phenomenon. Many countries are given the opportunity to satisfy the old gods with their particular region-specific... sacrifices of blood, sex, and gore, failed rituals that we see on various... monitors around there include in Buenos Aires, there appears to be some sort of King Kong riff happening that did not go well for King Kong. In the Stockholm,
We get a reference to the thing with an Arctic exploration camp that is blown up. In Madrid, we get what appears to be a Dracula's castle blow up. And then the big race to the finish. between the U.S. and Japan is in Kyoto, which appears to be a reference to Ringu. And of course, up until this point, Japan's clear rate has been perfect, but these schoolgirls just so happen to know.
how to make this particular demon ghost disappear into the mouth of a friendly throne. And then they sing songs together. Their victims are starting to get too smart. Yes. Because the awareness of these tropes has become so predominant that movies like Scream and Scary Movie have been made. And so therefore, they have not innovated to a degree. They have not caught up. They're looking for a revolution. And ultimately, the revolution is...
Let all these fucking monsters out and oh shit, they're actually small potatoes compared to the old gods. Yeah, I do. I do love that the epic five minute long monsters unleashed scene is basically playing. fun game of horror scavenger hunt where you just You look for every reference to, you look for as many references to different horror movies as possible. Like you have the imposing man with...
out of space is obviously supposed to be a reformed pinhead. You have the characters wearing doll masks who I guess are supposed to be the strangers. You have a killer clown. Obviously, you mentioned that the most lead-on reference is the Evil Dead movie. Yeah. It's just like a little bit of everything. It's a little bit of everything. I was just trying to bring up a list here.
of what's on the whiteboard so that we can talk about. Yeah. The whiteboard is less like, there's all kinds of like, you have to like just kind of freeze and read some of the crazy combinations they have on there. Yeah. I thought I had saved a screen grab, but. brought it up so quick so first and foremost we have a werewolf and then we have alien beast which i we we see from the back of but we don't really see the front of then we have just
Mutants. They're just mutants. You're chuds, I suppose. Then we have Wraith. Is that different than the ghost that they see in the elevator? That might be a wraith. I'm not particularly sure. We definitely see a lot of it. Don't, like, wraiths, like, steal your soul or something? Yes. I mean, they... It's a combination of, like, Lord of the Rings and then whatever those weird things are in Harry Potter. A franchise I love discussing in, like, because it's so unproblematic.
I feel like you could look at this and just get some really good band names. Oh, yeah. Like Dismemberment Goblins. Yeah. This memory goblins are a big one. The scarecrow folk. Dragon bat. We have clowns, plural. Reptilius. Or reptilicus, which I believe is a riff off of. which we referenced in Hide and Go Shriek. Witches and then sexy witches. Different category. Just like zombies are different than zombie redneck torture family. They are...
separate components. They have their own lore. Oh, yeah, I see. The Doctors is another one. I feel that's a reference to the remake of House on Haunted Hill. Absolutely, because they mimic that shot. Right, it's film in that kind of sped-up, greeny film style. Yeah. Angry Molesting Tree, obviously another Evil Dead reference. We've got a giant snake. A direct reference with Deadites. Kevin, which apparently Kevin is tied to the film strip that which which care.
at the film strip. I forgot. Oh, Marty is looking at the film strip. Apparently Kevin is connected. We don't know. People have guessed what Kevin is, but basically he's a creepy kid. You've got a mummy, the bride, you know, a play on Frankenstein, the bride of Frankenstein. Then a snowman, which I don't do. I don't know. I don't remember ever seeing a snowman. I don't think. snowman dragon bat which we see a bunch vampires in general we see
We do see the merman at the very end, which Hadley has always wanted to see. And of course, the best part of the merman is that after he bites you, blood comes out of his blowhole. quite a shoot-your-own-death venture. Yeah. In fact, I ran out of room. Like it was literally 1222 last night. I'm like, I have to stop writing things down. So I'm going to have to find a curated list.
to choose their own adventure. There's all, there was too many to write down, but sadly, no, no get bunks that I can remember. If someone. get bunked, please let us know. This will debut a month from when we're recording it, so I will not remember that I asked for this information. There's plenty of impalements and stabbings, especially in that melee at the end.
gets it through something their hell lord has saw blades coming through his face and when when when are we where are we getting this centibite like this yeah so talk about it supposed to be like pinhead but yeah i i'm shocked i mean we got a dude with like with like you know you cds Yeah, it seems crazy. The Huron, I have no idea what that is. Yeah, I don't know. Just the Huron. And then one of my favorite things is Sasquatch, Wendigo, and Yeti are all put together.
Whereas zombies and zombie redneck torture family are distinct things. Sasquatch, Wendigo, and Yeti are absolutely truncated into one. Right, because you... Nobody really knows the difference. Truly. Unless you're a party to their, you know, origin story, you're really not going to know if somebody's a... So I think I've said this story before, but it's worth particularly saying on this episode. After seeing this motion picture in theaters, I ran into Bradley Whitford at a local coffee shop.
It wasn't the first time I had seen him, but it was the first time I saw him after seeing Cabin in the woods. And so I approached him and I said how much I enjoyed the movie, that it was brilliant. He was insanely funny in it. It was unexpected and such a joy to watch. And, you know, and he kind of demurred like. it's just like a horror movie, dude. Like who kind of, who cares was the attitude he gave. Like, and I'm like, I don't.
It really doesn't matter if you're playing softball or MLB. When you hit a home run, the ball goes outside the fence and it counts for the same amount of points. You hit a home run. I don't care what kind of game you were playing. You hit a home run and you should be happy about the fact you hit. Now, I don't know if he took that to heart necessarily.
But he needed to be told, like, you don't need to be genre phobic. It doesn't matter that it might be easier to make a good horror movie in his mind. I don't believe that to be true. It is hard to make a good horror movie, and it's even harder to make a good horror comedy. Right.
At the beginning of the show, you asked me when I'd seen this. I said that the second time I watched it, what really... sold it for me was the performances of two of the actors and it was him and Richard Jenkins because I think that the funny in this movie are just the two of them bantering because it's so mundane right it's just this is just their job and and like you know they they're you know
You know, it's not a job that either of them particularly enjoy. Yeah. You know, they just have this, like Richard Jenkins in particular just has this sort of exasperation about the whole thing. very much relate to with my day job and appreciate and the fact that it is carried over into this very bizarre circumstances is what makes it so extra funny. And yet, after the first death of Jules...
He does this whole prayer thing with his rune that he takes out from underneath his shirt and tie. Like at this point, up until this point, you would think he doesn't really believe in any of it. And it turns out he is very thankful for the continuous horrors he has to perpetuate. in order to not have greater horrors happen. Which is the other thing that I think is the secret sauce of this movie, particularly at the point in which it was written and made.
And that is after the 2008 recession, in which a generation learned that a lot of old people will absolutely sacrifice your... livelihood and ability to get along in this world for their immediate comfort. And I will admit that when I watched this. before the new year. You know, I didn't really think about it in those terms, but yeah, I mean, there is a certain sort of...
and to a much more gruesome extent, similar to the plot of Hot Fuzz. Right. In which the phrase, the greater good, you took up a very... you had a very ominous sense to it after that yeah you know and right now you know not again once again not to get political on this show but we are hearing a lot of yeah there will be But, you know, in the end, it'll all turn out to be something good. We don't know what it is yet, but it'll be.
So much better for everybody. Yeah. Just trust us, the most trustworthy people you've ever met. There are a lot of people Richard Jenkinsing it up all over the place in that, you know, sort of just quietly going along, you know, with these with these. And then being thankful that the horror has passed them by for another day. Yeah.
And unfortunately, we are in a system that is nearly identical to the system being perpetrated in this. And I just, I think it's interesting that this movie comes in both the wake of The Great Reception. and also over a decade of children being murdered in schools, and the simple fact that we can do something about it. which is eliminate the types of weapons that make this possible. And then those in charge who are connected monetarily to that industry are like, oh my God.
We got to get people back in the murder machine business. These things have so much value in the fact that their only purpose is to murder people. We got to get murder machines back in people's hands. And now we're in the place where we are, where people have no shame in these mass murders that happen. They are terrible. And the people who lost their lives. They're robbed of life. But I don't know. There's no amount of it. There's no crime so shocking that it will jar any conscience.
into those who are monetarily tied to the murder machine. Yeah, I mean, the general, you know, the... for many things in this world, and more specifically in this country at this point, is better you than me. And I think this movie, it has big, better you than me energy. The fact that it's this deep, but also... so very funny is one of the rarest beasts. in all of filmdom that you are able to thread this needle of horror comedy to this degree of both high and low it is operating in
Yes. And truly one of the few incidents where I feel it has been matched to a degree has been the substance. The substance was that funny and that horrifying all at the same time. but is twice the length of a cabin in the woods, which I think is a fucking mirror. Just an absolute miracle. Yeah. It's, you know, it's, it is very, very tightly paced, which is nice. So when we decided to do sort of horror comedies, my secret desire behind.
was to look at a variety of horror comedies and decide of them without touching, as when we did Animal Attacks and we didn't go to Jaws right away. I wanted to get a baseline. I wanted to see some highs and some lows to really know what works in terms of for a kill by kill movie, you know, everyone else can have. decisions, but I really wanted to see what the levels. And I think this probably works at...
the highest level. And dare I say it, I think the only thing that really outmatches it pound for pound is the unproblematic in any way, shape or form American werewolf.
is perfectly unproblematic. True. But what I think the one thing that Werewolf does... that cabin has a harder time doing is being relentlessly scary for certain moments of time yeah i i will say the only you know cabin in the woods scary yeah and perhaps if you absolutely go in 100 blind to to to you know what's happening in it maybe a little bit yeah but if you know
It's not a particularly scary movie. Yeah. Any other elements of this? I praise every single cast member. And I think this is- Yeah, I don't know. I don't- I would have called Chris Hemsworth to be the big... out of the group because you know he's like a big handsome lug in it i'm not saying he's bad no his character his character is big handsome lug yes i think there's a charm to him early on you don't get to see a whole bunch of it
Because it's a little bit more focused on other characters. But there's a charm to him that seems to drain over time the more he's exposed to the various chemicals. And he becomes dumber and less charming, more of an asshole. And everyone's kind of looking around like... What the fuck is his? He is becoming a character that the audience is going to enjoy seeing die. Yeah, very. And so, so I think it is time to then buckle up to choose her own.
Maybe we should make it easier by just kind of maybe just sort of say, you know, off that list, that whiteboard list. Yes. Who would we rather be killed by? Right. Who would we rather be killed by? That is tough. I'll tell you right now, I don't want to fuck with that hell lord. No. I would say the vast majority of the Hellraiser crew, with the exception of CD, and maybe Butterball, because he just seems joyous. I'm not down with that. So that's an automatic pass for me.
I'm also not down with zombie redneck torture family. I am intrigued by Kevin. I just don't know what I'm getting. Is it the race that's, like, picking up people and, like, sucking their souls out of them? Yeah, I believe that is what's happening. Now, like, am I just... Is my soul doomed to travel the earth? That I don't know. His lore is hither come thither because we don't really know exactly.
We don't know why Ballerina has just a face full of teeth. I don't want that. I don't want that. See, that seems like a bad time. I'll take my chances on getting my soul sucked out. Okay. Yeah. It seems semi-nonviolent. Almost a life force-y type of death. Yeah, he just kind of picks you up and swings you around and then your soul comes out. Sure. Yeah, yeah. I think, Kevin, I'm just intrigued. And you know I love the creepy kid movie.
So, you know, if Mikey's not available, we need to talk about Kevin in my mind. Maybe he'll just like ride a tricycle into a table while you're hanging up. Yes. I do not want to be sucked up by giant tentacles. I don't want to be Cthulhu. I've said that before and I'll say it again. That seems to trigger a certain corner of scared child inside of me. I'm not down for... Oh, you don't like watching those?
Lake Cthulhu is rising out of the water to attack a tiny boat? No, no. You've already done it. Between you and Megan, you fucked my TikTok algorithm for quite a while. I'd rather you not. I'm perfectly happy seeing people like mow lawns like once a day. I don't mow a lawn. I don't want to mow a lawn. I still want to see one guy mow a lawn.
And then I'm like, that's all I need to say. I do not need to see gigantic homoculi rise out of the ocean to grab a submarine. That's not shit I need. I'm sorry. I don't like tentacles. I don't like being grabbed by them. I don't like the idea of it. No fucking. How do you feel about eating them? Well, once upon a time, I'd had plenty, but- In the time since, I've learned a fair amount about octopi and have never eaten one again, including my trip to Japan. I did not have...
The octopus, the takiyaki that I had was actually just imitation crack. saw the sign. It's like, oh, imitation craft. That's what I'll have because I like takoyaki, but I don't want to eat octopus. The best octopus I ever had in Spain, but that's a wonderful memory that I can have and hold and I don't ever need to repeat.
So yeah, I have respect for you, Octopi. Do not come and grab me and just suck me into the ceiling. I don't- Don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't suck my tiny robo down, down your- your slimy gullet. Yeah. I don't want a deep rising and I don't want a shallow sucking. Whatever the opposite of that is that has to do with tentacles. I don't fucking want, I don't. And occasionally I'll get served up a cuttlefish and I'm like, no, fuck, no, it's even too close.
It's like mini Cthulhu. I don't need that shit in my life. Go to our Patreon where we have lots of bonus content that's fun for you. Rate and review us on iTunes or your podcatcher of choice. Talk back to us. on spotify or any of our socials like your threads your blue skies your instagrams or join the facebook group it's a fun time josh hoss does all of our artwork go to revengebodymemphis at bandcamp.com for this tune
All of the remixes. Gina, where can people find you when these are internets? I write about television and movies and pop culture on my Substack, ginawatchesthings.substack.com. And I am predominantly on Blue Sky and Instagram under Gina Does Things. Do it today, people. Check it out. Of course, you don't have to worry. Because the Bonnie count will continue for myself and for Gina. Bye-bye, everybody. Bye!