Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, dying time is here. That's right. We're talking about Smile 2 on Kill by Kill. Well, greetings and salutations. Internet is your old pal, Patrick. coming to you once again from the stage. This is the Kill by Kill podcast, where we are dedicated to celebrating the least discussed component of any horror film.
the characters. We're going to unpack all the goriest of details of Smile 2 in the hopes that a pop star's untimely end is just the beginning of the jokes we might make at their expense. And as always, there is only one person I trust to make sure that if I'm passing on some sort of weird trauma demon, I'll make sure the room is clear first. The one, the only.
Gina Radcliffe. How are you doing today, Gina? I was going to say, yeah, I make sure to stab a needle full of adrenaline into your heart and bring you back to life. Yeah. So... Let's get into spoiler free here just before, because it's a newish movie. And we're trying to get this out as fast as we can. But, you know, we had a bunch of things that we...
Knew we're coming out around this time. We didn't know what all we would have time for, but we both found a little hole in our schedule that we could do smile too. And so what were your general feelings about this sequel to a movie that. I think for us was like, it's fine plus. Yeah, I would say it ranked between it's fine and it's really good. I actually, I thought in some way. that this was a little better than the original. Me too. There were improvements here that I really appreciated.
I was impressed that they went in a different direction. Yes. With the storyline. I mean, it does, when you watch the opener, it does appear to be a natural sequel. to the first one, but then it goes in a different direction, which I thought was, I don't want to say unusual, but unexpected. I think the direction it takes in putting this in the pop star world I think is one of the best improvements.
in delivering this kind of story that the franchise could have possibly have taken. I think it is incredibly smart. You know, on the negative side, how this, for lack of a better phrase, Smile Demon works. I don't know that anybody's really given a lot of thoughts. Yes. And I think this opens a hole that we have to talk about in spoiler territory. But in the first one. There is this long thing that we discussed in that episode at the time in that when you have a story that someone.
has mental health issues. And then whatever this paranormal or real life horror that is happening, that is part of the plot line becomes center. And they're like, Is this person crazy or is it even crazier that it's actually happening to them? That's only an interesting question if it's actually happening to them. And in here. There are long portions of time where I don't know if it's actually taking place. And that is an issue that I think makes this, while I think better executed.
actually might be less effective as a motion picture. I found it wanting in those ways in terms of like acting and direction with one major exception and even writing. I think this is a more interesting plot-wise. The first film is more personal. This is more maximalist. And as a result, it gets to play in a bigger field. Now, I don't think they know how the smile demon works, Gina. I really don't think they do.
I mean, you know how that shit works. It's crazy. It doesn't make sense. No, I don't come to it to make sense, but it makes a kind of sense. Freddie makes a kind of sense. I'm not sure this makes a kind of sense. No, and I think it still remains this sort of like, you know, from out of left field shocker where, oh, okay, this is actually like some sort of supernatural being that is doing.
Is this a Pennywise situation? Is this just a demon who has a particular flavor of hell that he likes to lick? Is a Necronomicon being opened up to communicate with this bad boy? It doesn't even have a fucking name. I know most movies don't get better when you explain it, but at this point... someone needs to do some level of explaining. And I thought a certain character was going to be basically the Basil exposition of the movie, and he sort of...
In the way that he at least is aware that something is happening. Right. He gives her some insight. And is able to give credence to the fact that while this is incredible, I can actually. see the lineage of it being passed on from this person to this person, this person, this person, and you're next. And the only conceivable way I can think of to get out of it is to do X, Y, and Z. And you're like, okay.
Someone has an idea of how to combat this. As opposed to the last movie, we were like, I don't know, shoot somebody. Which, if that worked, though, Gina, we're going to have to get into spoilers for that. All right. So. Overall, some improvement. Very well acted. Very, very, very. I thought it was very tense. Yeah. There's a mood that it carries throughout. And super duper gory. Yeah. Very gory. It's carrying on a certain level of obviously.
we connected the first film to J horror in the grudge and the ring. And now upon viewing the second one, I'm like, Oh, obviously sinister is another part of this where. They're just trying to take that curse idea and really round it out. And we're surrounded by like curse movies for the past five, 10 years. And this is one of the few that is genuinely. broken out in a mass popcorn way, as opposed to things like tarot. Oh, Jesus.
Where it just, it doesn't fucking work. Like you, it's not a simple enough and it's too, and it's unnecessarily complicated and I know too much about it. Well, I think it does strike a sweet spot between... you know, oh, this movie's just about trauma and just being, and also just being, you know, there is actually a monster in it. Like, it's not, it's not just a metaphor. Like, but it is, you know, this monster, you know.
feeds on emotionally vulnerable people. So I think it kind of hits that spot rather well. And maybe that's what's resonating with people. And I think putting it in this world makes it even more interesting and resonating. It's grander in its scope in a certain way because it has chosen a pop star. But it isn't just... Trauma, there's also the sort of addiction recovery element of it that I think is an interesting variation of mental health.
that I found an interesting attack on this material that I found some of the most engaging stuff out of it. Yeah, and also, this may seem funny. I feel like... And I think the actress is also a singer. Yeah, she is. So her music and her dancing, it felt realistic to me.
where like you know like we talked about before like uh i think when uh the salem's lot episode that like you know for some reason hollywood has a a hard time showing realistically what it's like to be a writer or like, you know, you know, they're remembering when we did the hitchhiker episode with Willem Dafoe.
yeah and like the woman is like doing a reading of some of his work and it's like it's like how did this guy ever get published yeah this person would not be popular at all this is terrible her music her look her vibes very plausible to be for like a modern pop star. So I thought I appreciated the the the the realism of that. And let me tell you something. When I went to go visit our friend Megan Sunday back in September, she had me watch the movie Vox Lux.
with Natalie Portman, a strange but interesting and well-made movie. But none of those movies, both that and this should disabuse anybody. of the idea that being a pop star is fun. Yes. Because, boy, it looks just grueling and terrible and exhausting and who would want to do it? And of the two movies that are horror-tinged... that involve pop stars. I enjoy Sky Riley infinitely more than Lady Raven. No disrespect to Lady Raven. Oh, is that from Trap? Yeah, I haven't seen that one yet.
It's come on HBO Max now. I refuse to call it Max. And it, not for me. I'll be honest with you. I'm a Sky Riley stan. Is Josh Hartnett not enough to, or just the music or the movie itself? Just the music. We're talking music for music. Oh, okay, okay. I think there's lots to like about her. Yeah, no, I buy her as a pop star. I believe it.
I had not seen her in Power Rangers, but I had seen her in Aladdin because my kid had an Aladdin fixation at the time. And I remember walking out of that going, well. Whoever was Princess Jasmine, that person has a future. She manages to come out of this clean. And Nassim Padad, that's it. Those are the two who walk out of this movie with pluses in their columns. And she is so into this movie. Oh, yeah.
It does not deliver fake moments. This is like a, this is, I don't want to, you know, people will probably have my head for this, but I feel like she's trying to go for almost a Toni Collette and hereditary thing. Yes, Gene. Holy shit. That's in my fucking notes. Where she really just puts herself through the ringer for this. She is so committed to this. And I think it is to the movie's benefit.
And no disrespect to Sosie Bacon, who I believe also put her all into that role. They're just trying for different things. Sosie is trying for a more subdued... wounded kind of thing where her character is remorseful but also defiant at the same time and and like she just they're just you know they're they're they're they're not better or worse they're different
They're different takes at the protagonist of these movies. And that is something I genuinely appreciate in this, is that while it is repeating so much of the formula of the first film as...
Almost all sequels do to a certain degree. I do think it is going for different flavors within that palette, right? They're both... cakes that are constructed in a certain way but I'm getting different flavors when I slice into each of them and I really do appreciate that and I want people to keep that in mind when we get into spoiler sections and I have some constructive criticism to his smile too in the franchise in general. But that being said, if you liked the first one,
If you want to go see a good popcorn horror movie, if you want to see some interesting gore moments, you can do a lot worse than Smile 2. Yeah, absolutely. This is a pretty good movie. um if you like the first one i don't think this one is going to necessarily bump you from that so uh that's our recommendation so let us now If you have not seen the movie and want to keep yourself pure, you can pause it here or re-download it later. Like, subscribe, comment.
review, all that stuff. Don't worry, folks. The body cap will continue. Okay. Let's get into spoilers here. Now, horror internet's boyfriend, Kyle Galliner. Folks don't get attached. He's got a smile demon in him. Smile demon. And he's got a plan. The Smeeman. And his plan is to target Eastern European gang bangers with the Smile Demon. And Gina, I've heard worse ideas. Listen, he's like, who do I curse this with?
Who's going to pass it on to the worst people? Like, this is some Batman-level shit that he's doing here. And for that, I'm down with this plan. Now, is he in a condition to plan this out well? No, it turns out. No, no. He's, he's, you know, like how many days do you have to, I think believe it is six days. Yeah, he's about on day five and a half at this point. Five and 20 hours, yeah.
Yeah, he's like, I can't even say the desperation has set in. The desperation started setting in on day one. But, you know, it's either this or just, you know, grab up a homeless man and give it to him. The movie does not repeat what Scream 1 does, which is give someone a false ending in which they triumph. This goes bad in Jump 3. So at least...
There's variation there. Don't worry. This movie is going to pull the same fucking trick. So that. Yeah, there's a lot of zagging on the audience. There's too much zagging. The zag is the problem with me, Gina. Because in the first film, I would say about 75% of it was this is happening in the real world. And 25% are flashes. of insanity, and things that you've done that you're unaware of. In this film, I would say 95% of it, based on the end of it, has not happened.
Yeah, the absolute ending is, you know, brutal and also kind of funny. And, you know, I admittedly, I sort of saw it coming. A whole audience is going to see this happen. It does pull its punches. And as a result, I think you're undoing a lot of the, like some of this has to have happened. You have to have a balance. Like I was thinking about the.
The first movie. And I believe there is a scene in which she goes to, I think it's her niece's birthday party. And brings what is a birthday gift that happens to be a dead cat. But to my recollection, that actually happens. There's a big thrust of that film is that and this movie is attempting to do a version of that and fails because it makes it unreal in that.
It is isolating you from anyone who can help you. And that, as we discussed, feels a lot like you're trapped in a manic depression state. where your actions, your attitudes, your reactions to things are so extreme, it drives a wedge between you and anyone who can help you, further isolating you and making the condition feel...
and therefore making you worse. That is a very realistic thing. That is very grounded. Now, on the other end of this, There are incidents that are very much bring a dead cat to a birthday party for Sky, but they're not real. Because if any of them had been real, she wouldn't have been allowed to go on stage at this concert. That wouldn't happen. You don't... Elbow an old lady off a fucking stage into a table. A moment I found hilarious. It's like that scene in the.
Uh, I don't remember which naked gun it was where, where, where like he ends up on top of queen. The only thing I could think is there's a bit of setup and you know, there there's this woman who's brought her on stage. And you can feel her reaching out because obviously this person is having this terrible moment on stage. And she reaches out with her hand. And all I could think of, Gina, I swear to God, was gentle pressure.
And again, this all turns out to be in her mind. You know, she's basically getting, you know, go fuck yourself, San Diego. With the teleprompter. I honestly... There is moments in this movie that are very funny. And I honestly thought we were going to go for it. I'm sky rising. Oh my God. This is a room full of influential people. You can't just Batman somebody off a fucking stage into a table and have that not ruin your goddamn career.
Well, yeah, I mean, she was already, you know, already should have been doomed just with that, you know, yeah, well, I actually don't get anything out of doing this. So, you know, kids don't get influenced by people. Right. Yeah, which sort of feels like, which sort of feels like a nod to, do you remember, and again, I'm dating myself as an old person here, with Fiona Apple.
you know, won a bunch of MTV awards for her first album. And she's basically, yeah, well, this is all bullshit. It's why she will forever be the realest fucking rock star. Oh, of course. Yeah. Yeah. But at the time that was shocking for, you know, for her to not be up there all crying. What she was saying was the truth. Yeah, no, it was, but like, you know, you didn't use award show platforms or that kind of thing, you know, I mean.
And one of the elements I think that is an interesting elevation here is to place it in somebody who has to maintain an image. Not just... professionally in terms of in the previous film you have a psychiatrist who obviously has had issues with mental health in the past but she has to maintain a level of professionalism to have that job
and she's ruined relationships in the past, and it's fraught and everything. It's what gives these movies the juice, is really the interpersonal destruction of somebody. And that ultimately makes it... more interesting than a lot of the curse movies we've had in the past five to ten years. It's that twist, that grudge twist, that really makes it interesting. But here you have somebody who is not only their own profession, but they are an industry. Without them, all these people don't have jobs.
right i mean like like like her mother is her manager can you imagine i'm sure you get along well with your with your with your mother but you imagine like constantly being on the road with her and her micromanaging you and her nagging you to make sure you have your 12 bottles of glass water are you trying to put a fucking smile demon in me right now because the very idea of this
It gives me highs. Like, yes, I love my mother. She's a lovely lady, but holy shit. And being reminded over and over again that everything the two of you have built together rides on you being able to keep your shit together. whether at her recovering from drug addiction, and not to mention a horrific car accident that killed your partner. That by appearances, she caused? Yeah. It was a murder-suicide.
Only she didn't get the job. Or at least a overdramatic gesture. Yes. It's a she's not aware of her circumstances. She is not aware of the danger. She is being fucking provoked. Yeah, he is. He's taunting her and they're both, you know, drunken high and, you know, but like, you know, just just, you know, I can't even imagine what that sort. And yet so many pop stars.
you know who who came into the you know and i get the impression that you she came into this pretty young and it's like you know yeah they're they're stuck with their parents as their manager and it's like what kind of you nobody wants to be around anybody that much all the time well I've had a constant refrain in this industry for a long time when it has to do with, you know, I'm not on this end of it, but obviously I'm kind of wrapped into it, but they call it management for a reason.
And if you see people who are being put into vulnerable situations in which they seem out of control, it is because they are not being properly managed. in the sense that they're not being given room and space to deal with personal things in a place where it is not in the public eye. And Skye is not allowed to do that. She has not been given that privilege. She has to get out there. There's so much that she needs to get through this ridiculously timed tour.
And like, you know, her, you know, making the rounds on television and having to relive the accident over and over again and recovering from her addiction. You know, she needs a personal physician. Because she's still dealing with, you know, physical aspects. Yes, that are real. Like, she fell off a fucking cliff. Right. And she can't, you know, that she can't get a prescription for painkillers because of her, because we're just stupid.
You know, she needs, you know, a therapist on call. She needs, you know, a rehab sponsor on call. And as best as I can tell, she doesn't have any of this. You know, she has her manager. She has one, you know, fawning assistant. And then she has this backer, Darius, who was kind of sternly watching everything from a distance. Constantly disappointed that she is not doing what he wants. He's a daddy figure, basically.
Oh, my God. But not in the way that, you know, father figures should be. No, he's only to grant this patronage approval to her. I feel like there's been a fair amount of thought given to this motion picture. It's not like he came at this and I'm like, I'm just going to repeat everything. No, no, no, no. Now, a lot of it.
is repeated the formula is absolutely installed within this thing it is but i i again i feel like you know the setting being different the the you know other other than you know Kyle Garner's appearance at the beginning, it not being a, you know...
you know, five minutes after the events of, you know, sequel. I think that that's, could it work as a standalone movie? You know, probably not because, you know, people are going to be like, well, who the hell is this guy at the beginning? What does this mean? But, you know, I think it is certainly a strong enough movie on its own. What I found interesting this time around from a marketing standpoint, because so much of Smile's initial success two years ago.
was they had a very smart marketing plan, which was to put people at events. They just have a little smile. That worked. And I'm a little agog that. They never did this. This didn't happen this time. They just chose to abandon this very effective marketing technique. I have to believe that it's really weird for me that Paramount didn't have enough money to find somebody to smile behind the home base at the fucking, you know, World Series. That's weird to me.
I think that the first one did well enough that you know, they don't have to, to ask, make people want to ask it, well, what is this, you know, what's with these weird people smiling? You know what I mean? And so even if you didn't see it, you kind of know the whole, you know, sort of, and let's face it, it's a, it's a, it's like a Jack Nicholson.
you know, Kubrick's stare where he's like kind of, kind of, you know, you're very unnatural, you know, looking down and leering sort of thing, you know, which is why they literally hired Jack Nicholson's son to, to, to be her. putting him in a poster for it even though he's not actually it's one of those things where his spirit kind of hangs over everything but like he only is in it on screen maybe a total bout
Five minutes. He gets like a flashback of their accident and then he pops up to kind of taunt her at this speech she gives. She ends up elbowing the old lady into the crowd. And I think those are some of the more effective moments in the movie.
Yeah, like I said, he looks like he hatched out his father's forehead. His voice is even similar, which is bizarre. Like when he's laughing at her in the... in the car i'm like oh this is kind of eerie i mean obviously like you know you know our children you know pick up you know certain things you know from us and from you know their other parent and sometimes it's a little eerie to see it you know but like it
She was just particularly affected with him. It's like, was there a mother involved in the creation of this man? Was he hatched substance style out of his back? Is that what you're wondering? Yeah, this is baffling. Yeah, I mean, this movie is doing just fine. It's made nearly $100 million worldwide. I don't know that it's going to do as well as the original.
I think the only reason, well, the first mile had plenty of competition too. So I do think they could have goosed this a little bit with a little bit of fucking marketing, but they, they. I don't know that Paramount has the money to do that anymore. I think they're willing to do what they need to do to get a result. And they had confidence that. This could do that. I mean, I do find it interesting that in both movies, you're...
Your star value is Kyle Garner. Again, I love Kyle Garner. As I said, we kill by kill believe in Kyle Garner's supremacy. But outside of horror, he's not much of a known quantity. No. But he still is. like the biggest name in both movies. And like I said, folks, don't get attached. He is spectacularly gone. Like in the first minute. I do have notes on the execution of his plan. I feel like he is not playing well.
Final destination, even in that he is hit by a truck that just seems to appear immediately in frame. Yes. And is rendered to, you know, a boot and a pile of meat. He's atomized. Under yeah, that's that's like when like when you've got the open the title card opening on that I'm like, I'm like, okay. All right. I'm in for a good time. Yeah It's unfortunate that we don't get more Kyle, but also I think it's an effective use of, he is such a vulnerable personality. He's intensely likable.
they could have so easily made it so that Skye crosses paths with him. And instead, you know, he passes it on to, he inadvertently... That's called the Smeeman. No, I don't like that. I really should have workshopped this before we hit record. The smile demon. He inadvertently passes it on to sort of like your low-level drug dealer.
who, in turn, is Sky's dealer for, she gets bootleg, not bootleg, Black Market, I guess, might get in for him. And then that starts off the whole, so, you know, there's like a middleman. you know, connecting Kyle Garner's character and her. Is Drew Barrymore resuscitating her, you know, strike post strike career here by. I don't know if this movie really captures what people tune into on her show. I don't know. I only know her show from two sources. Random TikTok. And we had to work.
on this project for abc which is an extreme makeover reboot and they have these two organizers who are now the hosts of it and so they had a different organization show and part of that organization show They went to Drew Barrymore's New York set to organize her kitchen. And they just go out and they never have a resolve to it. They just show up. They're like, we have 12 spatulas. And like, why do you need 12 spatulas?
Because we're a TV show, and if one of those gets damaged, I need to have extras, but I don't have anywhere to put it. And then they start organizing, and you never see the finished fucking result. And then we looked for other episodes. They didn't have another episode where they gave you the end result of their organization. It's maddening to me. But Drew Barrymore seems like a nice lady. She does. And I like to think in hope.
that being a strike breaker was an aberration. I think she was forced into it by her parent company. Yeah, probably. I think she figured out immediately, oops, I fucked up. I think not only did she realize, oops, I fucked up, but her first apology was another, oops, I fucked up. That's how fast she went from, oops, I fucked up, to, oh, I fucked up, and I fucked up my fuck up.
Right, exactly. Not good. I mean, I just hope that she's not going to turn to like, you know, what Larry King was. If she is Larry King 2.0, we could do worse. That's true. That's true. Because where it's like you have a fictitious character being interviewed by a real life journalist. And she is nothing if not a real life journalist and doppelganger survivor. So we have that to remember. There's another podcast out there. How do you drew? that connected with me on on instagram and they're like
I commented on something having to do my constant refrain that she is the best producer that the scream franchise ever had, which I wholeheartedly believe then like, Oh yeah, she's great. And she doesn't have a lot of. horror stuff. So it's interesting that you've covered her a couple of times. And I said, yeah, give me a call when you hit doppelganger. We'll talk. Cause that movie's a lot. You know, that's actually one of my favorite episodes.
It's a genuinely baffling motion picture. Yeah, I revisit that. Quite often. There's so much going on there that is of its time. It's just trying to make the most of its meager budget. The shaking of the branches outside of the fake house is... Always gets me. And the decisions it makes and the opportunities it takes to go, you know what's really cool? You know what's the coolest thing in the world? Writing screenplays. That's.
Where the real rebels are. Oh, God. Get the fuck out of here. Anyways, back to Smile 2. So, yeah, Sky is an interesting... character in that the situation she's in is so monumental the pressures on her are so much bigger than your average person only because she's Not an individual. She's an industry. And so this comeback tour has come after rehab and recovery and surgery that's stitched up, you know.
two-thirds of her gut and the small of her back. And her leg. I don't know about you, Gina. I'm not dancing after that. I had to put aside the fact like, like, okay, she had like a compound fracture. Yeah. Which if you don't know, that's in your bone when you could see the fucking bone sticking out of your body.
I do not buy that she's not hobbling around. She should have a brace on that thing like she's fucking Tiny Tim. Right. Let alone doing these Britney Spears, Lady Gaga, complicated dance moves. And then, yes, her drug dealer, drug, her prescription drug dealer is played by Lucas Gage, who I last saw being taught how to be a bouncer in the remake of Roadhouse. Oh, my. So it's going great for him. He witnessed he was the one who witnessed Joel's bad demon pass playing. And so.
He happens to be Skye's old schoolmate and on again, off again, drug dealer. And when she goes to his apartment, I'm looking around here and I'm going, am I jealous of this drug dealer's apartment art decoration? I was going to say coveting that giant neon dollar sign. Gina, not only the neon dollar sign, the squirt gun show box of different squirt guns. I'm like, I can make that.
I can make that and put that in my home. That's cool. I will never have enough room in this tiny ass house to put in a pinball machine. This motherfucker has too. I always want a pinball machine. Oh, I dream of it. My friend, Than, who I love dearly, worked a job for a really long time that was very lucrative and now is a stay-at-home dad.
He was able to rebuild this house that he bought in Wisconsin to allow him to have an office downstairs. And he bought not only a pinball machine, but Theater of Magic, one of my favorite pinball machines of all time. And the seething jealousy I have of this is honest. I had to be honest with him and go, I kind of want to kill you and wear your skin because you can just walk downstairs.
That's pretty fucking awesome. You need to appreciate what you have, sir. He's very appreciative, and he worked very hard for it, so he deserves it. But I am one of those people who is literally a f***er. pinball maniac i that is my game of choice i like to do it and i'm never gonna have enough room for it it's just this is a very tiny fucking house uh i i have more windows than walls
I can't put up art and I certainly can't build an entire fucking pinball machine. So I better be happy with what I have and try to keep it. But he has two and I am jealous. Even though he's dead now. I was going to say, I mean, you know, jealous enough to be willing to smash a weight into your own face. Which? We said this on, we recorded our... Patreon episode where Face Smashing is big in 2024, baby. Face Smashing is huge in 2024. People want to destroy that face.
As he said, if Guillermo del Toro, he should be receiving kickbacks, I think. He's just doing a chubby little elf dance. He's just like, yay! Shocks the audience every time. And it does. When the face smashed, the weight, the people cry. And I don't know how he's standing upright.
after the first swing yeah i don't know either i mean i i think that like you were kind of not really in control of yourself at that point i mean yeah let us not forget that later it was revealed that that someone else who uh was afflicted with the smile demon ripped their own jaw off with a crowbar with a crowbar and that is i think the elements of this that i
enjoy is the sort of reveal of how gross it can get. Right. Because a lot of it's trickery. I think it's a little... everything's a little more amped up in this one because like in the first one it's like oh and not to say this stuff is bad but like you know you know oh you know they slashed their own throat or you know oh she set herself on fire which which is like yeah that's horrible but you know that's plausible i guess for lack of a better word but like you know
repeatedly smashing yourself in the face with a, you know, I don't know, 50 pound barbell weight. It's like, mmm. Again, as you say, I think of that first one, you're falling down at the very least. I mean, you know, let alone be able to do it a second time. She immediately pukes, which, you know. Hey, what are you going to do? Listen, I had the same question she did. I love that they showed her Googling, can you find DNA and vomit? But I was thinking of, can you dust for vomit? Because...
I am curious about that. It's like, obviously, if you bleed all over the place, you leave semen all over the place, they can, like, you know, at least get your blood type from that. But... can they do that with vomit? And I'm like, cause I mean, it's like, it's like, well, there's saliva and vomit, but eventually that's going to, maybe the police are like some, some crimes are just, you don't want it. It's like, yeah, but saliva also dries really fast.
So I'm like, how would they check to see whose vomit that is? Her fingerprints would also be all over that fucking place. Like vomit's the least of the problems. That's true. I mean, it's probably on the doorknob and, you know, places. you didn't even remember touching. And yeah, I mean, there is that. But I mean, I guess, you know, you would hope that the comic will see that and think, oh, well, that's probably his or something like that. You know what I mean?
That place is in great disrepair. Also good for him. Obviously he's been using those weights. He's very in shape, but also his diet is terrible. It's just nothing but takeout. Well, he's a busy man, you know. Places to be, visions to see. Yeah, I mean, you know, you don't get to own neon dollar signs for just sitting around doing nothing.
Right? You got to be active. You got to be out there. Always be closing. You know, ABC. This brings up an interesting question, though I did not have until this moment, Gina. Did the Smile Demon go through the drummers of Spinal Tap? Is this movie connected to This Is Spinal Tap? But it's only ever hit the drummers. And they do.
They do all die spectacular deaths. Yes, unexplained spectacular deaths. To explode, I guess, at that point. You know, we don't really know this. We don't know the circumstances of the gardening accident. But it could be one of those, you know, took his own jaw off with the crowbar situation.
he didn't do something horrible with a pair of sheer with a pair of like pruning shears or something. Yeah. Could have like gutted himself or something with them. But yeah, that's possible in terms of offsetting your costs. Right. With a movie that this has a budget of a little north of $20 million. But the day the Voss rep booked Smile 2. Oh, shit.
It must have been, you know, just nothing but the stripper pole and cocaine. Oh, my God. Because they're like, we are getting featured so hard in this traumatic. death-riddled horror movie, but we look great. Whoever secured the deal on that, that's like boss employee of the century. Sky is the only person on earth who can drink water faster. Oh my God. And I appreciate it. The most horrifying special effect, but she chugs that entire bottle.
Like in one go. I'm like, I want to throw up immediately after seeing that. I mean, we've done colonoscopies, the both of us. And the only advantage I had. in that with the jug of liquid that you have to drink is the fact that i can genuinely chug liquid i can take it down i can open up my throat and accept liquid Yeah, I start coughing and gagging if I try to do that. I would have never worked out in a frat house. Chug, chug, chug would have turned to puke, puke, puke real fast.
Now, I take no responsibility for what happens when it gets down there. But getting it down there, it's a freeway of love. And a pink Cadillac. Just cruising. curious. I've never I'm grateful to say I've never dealt with a substance abuse problem or drinking problem. I'd be curious if what she said about, you know, her addiction counselor.
telling her that every time she felt the urge to to to use again she should drink water if there's like if that's based in in in you know a real life thing or not i mean i can tell you that based on uh conversations i've had with psychiatrists um that centering yourself is a way to take you out of anxious moments. Right, like the one I've heard with people who are trying to stop themselves from self-harm is to snap a rubber band.
Against your arm because, you know, it stings and it gets that, you know, that release, but you're not actually doing physical damage to yourself. Right. Recenter yourself. Drink a cool gulp of water and... You know, feel it go from your mouth, down your throat, into your stomach. You can feel its journey. You're here. You're not in danger.
You can understand where you are in this moment. You appreciate that you're having this physical and mental reaction to stimuli, but they're not in control. You are. And so from that standpoint. Not the worst thing. I don't know anyone's recommending her to house Voss bottle after Voss bottle. No, she must, like, if you make a drinking game out of how many times she drinks water, you're going to be on the floor about 45 minutes in.
Like you can die from drinking too much water. That is one thing that can happen. She's on the edge. People on ecstasy are looking at her like, yo babe, slow down a little bit. So the element here that I have a difficulty is not that there are multiple fantasy sequences. It is that it seems to erase the consequences. of what was an element in the first movie, which is I'm driving you to the brink and I'm driving a wedge between you and anyone who can help you. And.
Shit just happens here and it turns out none of it fucking matters. She has an entire interaction with her best friend Gemma and Gemma doesn't fucking exist. Well, she does, but we learn that they are still estranged by the, like, you know, she has, you know, as unfortunately happens, a lot of people who struggle with addiction, you know, has alienated. many of the people in her life, including her closest friend, from what looks to be starting from before she became famous.
It appears that Gemma has forgiven her and she comes and stays with her and offers some measure of comfort. And then it turns out that, you know, no, actually, you know, she's been, you know. She was never there Like this was just the smile demon Kind of fucking with her in a way That was not quite fucking with people In the first movie This movie has a lot of zags
but I feel like it's turned the zag another spinal tap reference. It's turned the zag dial up to 11. Yeah. It is elaborating on what the smile demon can do. but still does not explain much how the smile even works, which is a little frustrating. It's obvious that Parker Finn, the director, knows horror. loves horror, is interested in doing things with, you know, visual references. I do think we need an international ban on turning the camera upside down going through a cityscape. I'm sorry.
I said this the last time. I said this with smile. We got to stop. It's cool. We can't always do it. We got to figure out something new. But the moment in which Skye turns on a bunch of lights in her apartment and it's done like it's Evil Dead 2, the laugh that came out of me, Gina, was monumental. Yeah, there's some very, you know. deliberately funny moments in this. And I think it's effectively disarming because it does get so gruesome and bleak.
The sort of Gaspar Nye climax background, backup dancer attack that she has is pretty bravara. Like that is your take. It's not. an original thing because obviously there's a lot of Gaspar Noe in that sequence. But he's doing it in a way that we... haven't seen in a while there's there's a little bit of that there's a little bit of the remake of Suspiria going on there too but like it's a it's contained that mirrored hallway
in that substance apartment that she is. It fucking works. Like, he's good at it. Like, I want now, I want him to see him do something else. Yeah, I would like to see what he does with you. Did he write the script for this? It says written and directed. I'd be curious to see what he does with a wholly original property. Because he's definitely got a good eye. And he's very effective at balancing, you know, as I just said, moments of humor with moments of...
tension and genuine horror. But yeah, I'm inclined to agree with you that discovering that virtually everything that's happened from... I don't know, minute 25, let's see, say two minute, one hour, 45 minutes didn't actually happen. Does lessen.
the impact you know i i think what makes the the you know smile demon so effective is that you know everything that is safe to you is suddenly not safe and so you know When you've got this, you know, mother character who, you know, you obviously, you know, there's a lot of tension in their relationship and, you know.
there should be no such situation in which a parent, you know, becomes wholly reliant financially on their child, you know, unless, you know, the parent is like, you know, 95 years old or whatever, you know, I, you know, I will not get started on. my rant of child actors becoming the primary breadwinners for their families because I think that is weird and wrong and terrible and you're a terrible person if you ever allow yourself to be in that situation. But...
You know, the mother character does offer some sense of stability. you know in that she kind of keeps her on the straight and narrow and you know make sure she's drinking her you know endless amounts of water and you know keeps her you know got to do this this this this and that today you have to be here you know x o'clock or whatever But when she turns on her...
and starts telling her the things she's already you know been afraid that you know everybody thinks of her which of course is you know again plays into one of the most effective aspects of the smile movies is is the whole digging into fragile mental health and and you know
pulling a basically pulling a a golem on you and and you know telling you you know well this is what people really think of you and and you know and like yeah i knew that the whole time but actually hearing somebody else confirm that is you know always more painful than you expect it to be. And then she attacks her and, you know, this guy attacks her mother and stabs her to death. You know, it's more effective when you think she really did that.
Yeah. And then you see, oh, wait, no, she's still alive. Okay. Right. She's still alive. None of the concept. And I just feel like. lets the air out like none of this happened like the thing with the old lady never happened yeah this like rant she does at this at this award ceremony you know never happened it's just you know as far as everybody else knows you know she's
and ready to rock and roll. Which, again, kind of lessens the impact a bit. I just think it's going to be harder next time around to get people to care. Because you're telling a really effective story, but without consequences, it doesn't mean as much to me. And I think that's unfortunate because I think a lot of it does work. I think...
One of the better scares this entire year is that sequence when she wakes up in bed and her friend Gemma is sleeping next to her, hanging out. And all of a sudden she has a flashback to... the car accident and Gemma's face basically becomes a headlight. Yeah, that was right. That was, that was, that made me jump. That was good. Right. And I'm not saying all jump scares are bad.
But there's a lot of, you know, jump scares in this. And I feel like a few of them really work. That being said, the crux of that first film in that here is this existential version. of a mental illness thing that plagues your real weaknesses, your real vulnerabilities. Let's not call it a weakness. Patrick, let's call it a vulnerability.
humanizes the idea of mental illness in a way that I think is very heartfelt, very effective to audience members. People felt it. And there's a slight switch here in Smile 2. that I did not like. Now let's go to when Skye is doing the meet and greet and she's signing a bunch of posters and t-shirts for fans. She's taking photos.
and of course she's approached by someone who's smiling at here this is another zag because this person is obsessed with her and it becomes revealed that he is a stalker and of course Now we've gone beyond, here's something that is attached to mental illness. This is a real thing and an attachment disorder that this person is going through is obviously.
And Grand dies for the movies. But we can't leave it at that. He has to also have chronic cystic acne and dirty hair and grimy clothes and skid marks in his underwear. And. Why are we now dehumanizing mental illness? Smile franchise? Yeah. Why have we decided to go in this? I found this profoundly disappointing for what is ultimately a throwaway. I don't know why they had to present it like.
Yeah, I mean, they could have just had this dude. I mean, I get the random naked weirdo, you know, just running at you is like a thing now in horror movies. Right. Everyone needs a nits fall. Yeah, I was going to say. I'm not sure when we collectively decided that nudity was terrifying. I think what it is is it's both the attack and the unmoored.
this person has gone beyond any sort of consciousness that they have to put on clothes. It's unexpected nudity. Yes. It's doing the violation in two different ways. It felt a little cheap. It does. It feels a little like... A cheap stab at a mental health issue and making us yell, ew, at him. As opposed to making that person clean cut.
You know, he had like a skin condition, which I'm like, I don't know what the relevance of that was supposed to be other than one more. Well, we need some sort of visual cue. This guy is gross. Right. Whereas, again, it's. a zag but i don't know why they push it in this particular direction when the thrust of this franchise appears to be about dealing with mental health issues And then this one, it's kind of like, yeah, but not this guy. This guy's an asshole. What? Come on.
You're better than that, Smile franchise? I found it weird. I found it an odd placement. I understand the... to put that kind of thing into because we're dealing with pop stars. We're dealing with celebrity. That's a part of celebrity. It's the way they chose to do it to make it outwardly gross.
would have been more effective if it was just like a quote-unquote normal looking guy who starts in the whole you know i'm here to protect you i love you so much you know i mean and then i think it would have been more effective because it's it's more honest and then you can then you
still do the you know you know it's like strip down and you know you'll let the trail close like you know you do when you're trying to get someone to bed with you for the first time and you know yeah you know then still do the go naked and running at you thing You know, I mean, you could still. Even if you wanted to do the skid marks there where they're clean cut, but inside that would be better than what we're given. I just think someone had to say.
There's a level above this that we can get to that would make this more effective. Right. Speaking of which, while this is very gory. And there are some good practical gore effects. The headlight face, the Kyle Gallner death at the beginning of it, the jaw removal. These are all good. Practical effects aided by CGI into it. When we get into full smile demon crawling out of her guts, it is faker.
It is faker than a yoga death in a violent nature. Yeah, it's not good. The face stretching is like, which is disappointing because when you have the scene where she... hallucinating her dancers attacking her and you've got the one sticking his entire arm his hand up to the forearm down her throat you know that's pretty good like you could you know her face is stretching you could see her like her like her neck bulging and all but like when the smile even like and and then this was this was
also in the first movie it like makes your mouth really wide and like and like yeah because again i don't understand why the smile demon needs to physically enter you
Right. Isn't it already fucking in there? It was making her drive to Staten Island before. You're telling me it was sitting on the outside? That's the part I remain unclear on. And I genuinely say that if anybody can politely... explain how I thought that the demon was already in you and that the whole point of, you know, killing yourself in front of another person is that's how you transmit
the demon the smile demon onto another person i'm not sure where the extra step is of it physically opening your mouth up and coming into your body and then that's the point where you actually you know no longer become yourself. It's already making her do things. You know, that's the point where you're no longer yourself and then, you know, commit suicide in a spectacularly horrifying manner.
We're getting to Jumanji here. Is Jumanji where Jumanji comes out? Or is Jumanji when you go into Jumanji? Smile demon comes out. Smile demon is given to you. You get Smile Demon. Smile Demon lives in your head. jumanji doesn't come out right and the only but like as uh this character harold the uh the the older guy his brother yeah the nurse like he says the only way you know like
it's like there seems to be conflicting information. It's like, are you free of yourself? Are you free of it when you can, when you could pass it on to someone else or is, you know, is, you know, is your death inevitable? Like either you have to either someone else has to kill you or you have to commit suicide because the way with Kyle Garner's character, Joel, trying to get rid of this by, you know, forcing another.
you know, person to see him kill someone. Like, and then I remember in the first movie, it's like, well, you get rid of it. You just have to kill someone. Right. But he does. He. It does. It violates the rule. I didn't make the rule. It violates the rule in the first sequence of this movie. But how does Lewis seeing this drug dealer get killed, how does the smile even get passed on to him then?
I don't know. It should be negated at that point. Yeah, right, because Joel does not walk out. Well, technically he does, but not on purpose. That's an accident. When he gets hit by it. So the violent death doesn't pass on the demon. Maybe it is following the rules. People are screaming at their phones right now. Maybe it is. actually abiding by the rules. He killed somebody. It's involuntarily passed to the person who witnessed the killing. It's at that point out of Gullner. He's free.
at that moment the what kills him is getting into a gunfight with rival with the gang members right so what like what did lewis see that that you know transmitted the the the demon onto him The murder. Right, but that sort of implies that the mere act of seeing a violent death will give you a smile demon. Only if the person committing the murder has the smile demon. Jumanji...
I'm 100% serious. If we are missing something, please explain. I want to hear people's theories. Please explain, because I really honestly feel like something is not... And again, this...
I still think these are good movies. I think these are both eminently watchable, you know, interesting, even occasionally scary movies. But I do not understand the logistics of The Smile Demon. And if you do, I honestly would... would appreciate an explanation and i appreciate not knowing everything i don't need i don't need to be i don't need to be carefully spelled out right right i don't need somebody to open a dusty book like we don't
I don't think that's something that's needed. I don't need a voiceover explaining how this thing has been in existence before mankind or anything like that. A slow credits roll like Star Wars style in the beginning somehow. It's just like something. something is just not connecting for me but in a mixed bag it's more good than bad but i do feel like some Someone needs to grab the reins here. They're going to make more of these. And presumably they are because literally thousands of people.
sees a sky jam a microphone into her eye socket. Right. We've got a rings situation, a movie I've never seen. Now you've got like mass. spreading of this thing. So, you know, if you're going to make more of these, you're going to have to, this is going to have to be consistent at some point. Yes. The thing is like there's scale here, right? You either.
You could go certain directions. You either have everyone in that audience get a smaller version of the smile demon and you have a rash of violence. Then it's a completely different movie. Or your final destination in which a certain number, like the smile demon can't split himself up too much. And he can only get into...
Six, seven people, we got a final destination thing. I was going to say, the smile demon only has so many hours in the day. He's like bouncing back and forth. And then I think you're diluting the power of the movie. which is this character study of one person. And maybe it does need to be broken up at this point. But I do think what Smile has done for...
two actors in a role is giving them roles of a lifetime, right? I wholeheartedly believe that Sosie Bacon is a good actor because she is really good in Smile. And... The same is true here with Naomi. She has proven that she can handle some shit. This is 100%. very dependent on her going through this stuff and if you're not good at that it's just it's gonna fall on its face it's just gonna be tricks the only reason you care about it is you kind of want to see her
find a way out. And the only way you get that empathy is her being able to draw you into a difficult situation. I don't want that to be lost because people who are, these are not. hugely known quantities in terms of their name value as stars. But you're being, because of the word smile above the title, you're being given a chance to lead a motion picture. And it would suck if that then begins to be divided amongst old CW stars, like the Final Destination franchise.
Any other things we need to wrap up about Smile 2? A general positive It's Fine Plus. Yeah, no, I... I did enjoy it overall, but I 100% agree with you that in making most of what happens part of the Smile Demon's goal to drive her insane and make her so desperate that she... she commits suicide in front of someone, or in this case, many someones. I do think that... considerably lessens the impact. It's a bummer. And yet there's so many positives to it. It's a real genuine mixed bang.
an overall positive for me. But yeah, I think going forward, whoever, if he continues on with this or someone else picks it up. if they decide to make more of them, they're really going to have to decide how much of it is real and how much of it isn't. And I would err towards the real because consequences matter.
and also the scenario that we've been right and also it helps that you know as with you know what made uh the first one you feel it feel you know feels like it came from a place a personal place is it you know her increasingly fragile emotional state started pushing people away from her, like her sister and her asshole fiance. Oh my.
I don't think we did enough to talk about how awful this Beyonce character was. It would literally be a full hour. Maybe we should schedule something just revisiting Smile. Am I the asshole? Yes. And then so all that she had left was was Joel. Whereas here, she never really, I mean, she had lost people because of the addiction issues and all, but she never really lost anybody in the present.
Like, I mean, yeah, it was sad to discover that she had not, in fact, reconciled with Gemma. But, like, there wasn't a, you know, one by one, you know, now there's no one left kind of thing. Right. We're not isolating her into a desperate situation. Because I think they wrote from the end backwards to a certain degree. And as a result...
She can't have real, real bad things happen because it would be too noticeable. She's not an everybody. She's a somebody that can't go unnoticed. You can't murder your mom and drive to Staten Island. And then do a concert. That's just not something that's going to happen. And obviously didn't happen because her mom's in the fucking audience. Okay. We're in a loop here.
So all that's left now is to choose our own death venture. Where we decide, of the deaths betrayed in Smile 2, if we were forced to die in one of those ways, which would it be? And why? I have a question. Sorry, I didn't interrupt. Sure. Are we going to include deaths that didn't actually happen? Because then I think it would only be... There's only one death that legitimately didn't happen. Well, that would be the mom, right?
That would be the moment. So stab yourself multiple times with a shard of mirror. Wait, what? That wasn't real? Does this count? That's my exact note. Okay. So of the deaths that occurred on camera that we can. We can confirm actually happened. Shot to death in what seemed like a very shitty part of town. Run over by a truck.
Lose a foot and most of your intestines. There's like nothing. There's basically, they're carrying you away in a bucket after that. Right. Drive over the side of a hill. Land in the trees. Get half of your brain taken out. Yank off your jaw with a fucking crowbar. Yeah, man. and shove a bedazzled microphone into your eye socket and breath. Oh, I guess, yeah, we got to count Lewis's death. Oh, yeah, smash your face in. Oh, I didn't even write that down. Jesus Christ.
Yes. I don't like any of these, to be honest with you. No, we don't come to smile for deaths I'd like to repeat. I mean, again, you know, I tend to go for quick rather than show stopping. I'm going to take a wild guess that Joel neither saw that truck coming nor felt it hit him. No, no, no, no, no, no. The last thing that went through his head was the Dodge Ram.
Yeah, so, yeah, obviously I leave a horrifying scene, but, you know, I don't care. I didn't feel any of that. Yeah, I'm opening my eyes and I'm in heaven. That is the only acceptable death here. But just simply because it is fast. I still have a hard time believing that her eye socket is big enough for the microphone to actually make it all into her brain. Well, it sounds like she kind of like kept, you know.
you know flop flop flop until it uh until it broke through because because because you know one thing you gotta love about the smile demon it gives you a lot of determination It wants you to get there. Smile Demon has your back. Yeah, yeah. If we have Feel Good Freddy, you know, he just wants you to reach for your dreams. Sort of. And Jigsaw has a posse. And Jason Voorhees knows your fuck style. What we know about Smile Demon is he has your back.
The wind is at your back. And he believes in finishing a job. Never, never, never, never do anything half-assed. Never give up. Yeah, you've already hit yourself in the face with a 50-pound barbell weight once. Just do it again. You can do it again. A few more reps. Put the work in because the results will be worth it. Listen, your jaw is already hanging.
Halfway off. Just all take this one. Take it off. Do it. Do it. You didn't start this to keep the jaw on part of your skull. Yank it off. They're going to take it off anyway. You might as well save the doctor an extra step. It's going to be closed casket. It's fine. So that just about does it. Rate, review, and subscribe. You know.
If you have a review, we'd love to see it. A comment, interaction online. If you see us hyping up a new episode, please, you know, re-up it. Whatever the fuck. We don't have tweets anymore. So whatever it is we're on, that's what you do. Find us on your socials. Follow us over on Patreon for bonus episodes. That's always cool. um josh hollis does all of our artwork and go to revengebodymemphis at bandcamp.com to find this tune and all of the remixes gina
Where can people find you on these here? Internet. I write about movies, television, and pop culture at my newsletter, genawatchesthings.slubstack.com. And I am on most social medias under Gina Does Things. Do it today. People check it out. Don't worry, folks. The body count will continue for myself and for Gina. Bye-bye, everybody. Bye. Hey everybody, I'm Trevor Sycamore, host of the PFF NFL show here to tell you what you can find on all of our shows.
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