Boys and girls, dying time is here. That's right. We're talking about basic instinct to risk addiction on Kill by Kill After Dark.
coming to you once again from the Gherkin in good old London town. This is the Kill by Kill podcast, where we're dedicated to celebrating the least discussed component of any horror film, the characters, that is, until we reach February, and that's where we talk about... erotic thrillers in the hopes that a soccer star's untimely end fingering a chick in a car is just the beginning of the jokes we can make at its expense and as always there's only one person I trust
to constantly plant new cigarette lighters at various crime scenes to frame me. The one, the only, Gina Radcliffe. How are you doing today, Gina? I just can't stop smoking. I'm smoking and looking defiantly at you. In the first movie, they tell her once she can't smoke in a police station. And this movie, I think, spends at least half an hour of its nearly two-hour runtime telling Catherine Trammell...
You can't smoke in here. Just chastising her left and right. Just putting her in increasingly more ludicrous and ludicrous outfits. And then I don't know who she pissed off in the hair department, but they have given her. Some rough looks. Yeah, I sent you a picture, a screenshot of one. I said, whoever did the search and brought up on charges. That is the true killer in this movie, is the hair department.
of Basic Instinct 2, but we will get to it. She's got those choppy Gale Weathers bangs in one scene. Yes, it's very Scream 3-esque. We will get to it. I don't want to scare you, Gina. We're not alone. We have a special... guest you know her as a writer a podcaster a digital strategist and social media badass and of course she is a returning champion here to kill by kill the one
the only winter mitchell how are you doing today winter i missed you guys so much seriously i missed you i really did like this is refreshing i don't like to bother people too much you're a busy lady by the way I need you to do that because the thing is, is that. Okay. All right. Asked and answered. I need it because the thing is, is that.
You know, we see each other and I'm going to call blue sky the street. We see each other in the street constantly. We're neighbors. So it's like, you know, I'm constantly reminded of how much I love the both of you. But then I'm also like, I'm not going to just. I'm not going to just norm my way into your show. I'm not just going to be like, I should be on this week, don't you think? I'm going to wait till you ask and then I will show up. And see the...
The polite Mormon boy in me, what really believes deep down, I cannot bother this professional individual. No, no. I can't ask you to do more of this.
invariably because you are so delightful and funny thank you we tend to ask you on for more ridiculous things we're not we're not bothering you you never are and by the way that's just become my like what's the movie flight the john goodman character that's me i show up and and you're you're really gonna put this guy in front of congress or whoever i'll do what i can i'll do what i can
and then we slide a digital disc of basic instinct two and then we roll it 25 minutes in all right all right all right i got it so here's the deal right We could, there are some movies that we need to talk through the plot of because you need to understand it is some elements of its context or it's just so weird. It has to be discussed. Sure. But then our audience would be just as bored as we were when we watched this movie, which is D-U-M-B. Yeah. Dumb. It is.
Truly the stupidest version of a Basic Instinct movie. It so closely follows the plot beats of the first one without any of the highfalutin style.
that Verhoeven brings to the proceedings. It's just one of those things where he knows the secret weapon of that first movie is, yes, this script is ridiculously stupid, but if I give it enough style and enough... verve it will highlight how stupid that is and the audience will laugh and have a fun time that is not the case here this movie believes that every moment is deathly fucking serious yep And so if it is in fact camp, it is that second version of camp, the unintentional.
humor via deathly seriousness. Well, you know what I compared it to, Patrick? Remember? I think I said this in a group chat, but I compared it to Red Dragon. Oh, that's right. In which you've got... Anthony Hopkins sort of winking at the audience, like, hey, you know me, I'm Hannibal Lecter. I'm going to make weird mouth noises. You know, talk about, you know, having you for dinner. And I think that's what she's doing here. You know, with the slow crossing the legs. Hey, remember this?
You know, the constant references to you can't smoke in here. You know, it's like when, you know, the later seasons of Happy Days when Fonzie would walk in and stop for like 30 seconds and the audience would applaud. Yeah. That's what's happening here. It's, you know, it's like, you know her, you love her. Here's Catherine Trammell. But you know what's interesting is like, you don't go to the sequel. You don't take Freddie from Nightmare on Elm Street.
and then immediately do Freddy's dead Freddy in the second movie. You know what I mean? There's no way that movie, that franchise, would have lasted eight or however many entries. If you went from that Freddy to that Freddy, you need to build on the Freddy. You need to unlayer.
the Freddy. You can't just go straight to heckle, heckle, ha-ha Freddy. You got to kind of get there. And that's what they did to Catherine. It goes from being like, you know, this, look, she was iconic. I mean, that made...
Sharon Stone, like a bonafide star. And this just undid the entire concept of that. Yeah, I agree with you 100%. There's just no consistency to it. And I don't know that there ever... should be a sequel to basic no no but if you are going to do it and i think they were there was this weird game of legal chicken with this movie where they had set up a sequel around 1999 going into 2000. And then they couldn't find a script they like. Their deal fell through. MGM went in, you know, tits up.
They just don't know exactly how to handle this. And she takes the producers to court. She walks out. She sues them for 100 mil. She walks out with 14 and they can't pay that either. And the only way out of this dire situation is to, they're forced. to make this movie. And then they make the worst version of it they possibly can. They got walked off a plank into Basic Instinct 2. Yeah, this feels like something that was...
It literally is like legal jeopardy, the movie. And there's no good version of this, but this might be one of the worst versions of this. We were talking briefly. before you got on winter of whether or not this was like the worst after dark erotic thriller we had ever watched because we watched some fucking howlers the last four plus years that we've been doing this and They are ungood, but it's almost staggering how incompetent yet boring this is. This is a lethal combination of boring.
stupid, and incomprehensible. You can do one, and I forgive you. You can't do all three. And because there's an element of... you have to out-shock a movie whose one of the main components of it, its being so splashed upon the screen and being such a big deal, was its provocation. And in this movie, they're like, maybe not. She definitely doesn't like ladies anymore. That's out. She's just for the fellas. They flirt with it a little bit.
Like the way David Thewl is, what in the fuck is he doing in this? No idea. He says like, oh, like she's lady friends with your ex-wife. And it's like, lady friends? Lady friends? But then he's real quick to clarify that he doesn't mean it like that. Then why refer to it as lady friends? Like, when I hear the phrase lady friends, I mean...
I think, oh, you mean they're lovers. Okay. But like, you know, it's like, they're kind of like, no, no, we're not. But everybody in this movie literally could be in Paddington. And somehow ends up in this movie. It's true. There are definitely people calling in. Charlotte Rampling. Oh, she should sue that. She is criminally underused. And what anything that her role has. is undone when she's just like...
Yeah, I believe this serial liar who up until this very moment, I'm saying you shouldn't see her anymore. She's trying to manipulate you. This is a bad idea. And then she has one session with her. She's like. I think she's right as rain. I think you're a crazy serial killer. I think we have to pull your license immediately. Just submit to the loony hatch for a little while. We'll take away your license and everything should be kosher. I don't know why he's still on the fucking streets.
Because every other door he walks into is a dead body. And David Thewlis just strokes the wisp of his mustache and decides, no, I'm putting you out on the fucking street. Why? At one point he, like he starts this movie going like, I'm going to, my apologies. I'm going to put that bitch in jail.
And you're like, it's a little fucking, you're hitting the accelerator a little hard there, guy. And then about three quarters of the way through the movie, he's like, I don't know, that Catherine Trammell, she's got some good ideas. He goes on the crunchy to alt-right pipeline on Catherine Trammell so fucking hard. It's the bangs. It's the bangs, Gina. The bangs. She's like a fucking cult leader in this.
The way she talks to people for like five minutes and they're like, oh, well, Catherine was right about you. I mean, drink every time someone says the phrase Catherine was right about. Yes. If you combine that with doing a bump every time Catherine says come. You will be so high and drunk, you will be able to phase through the multivers. Like literally every character in this movie at some point talks to her and completely gives in.
And buys everything she says. And everybody's like, she's so brilliant. And she's a mastermind. And all she's fucking doing is smirking at people. That is all she does. She smirks and she talks about how much she's into danger. But the thing is that I happen to love Basic Instinct. And I think every single person, even though she's clearly the star, I think every single character in that movie has a purpose and a reason. I think Jean Triplehorn.
you know, has a purpose. I think obviously Michael Douglas has a purpose. I think his partner has a purpose. Everybody kind of serves a purpose there. This is sort of like, we just need to get like skim off. the top of London's finest, gather them into this, into these roles, and they didn't have like a purpose. I honestly feel like Sharon did that on purpose.
How many times can I say purpose? I think Sharon did that with intention. I don't know if that was her or just bad script screenwriting because... You've got these characters who are set up like they should have something to do with the plot. Like this mentor with this wig cloth on his head that like... It's a big deal, apparently, that he's going to do a letter of recommendation for Morrissey's character. And then he's gone. You've got this female colleague.
that he starts an affair with. You know, they have sex in one scene. She's gone after that. You've got Hugh Dancy's character who shows up for one scene. He's dead. Next scene. You've got the ex-wife, you know, seems like she might have a lot to do with the plot. Not really, as it turns out. And then you've got this former patient who is talked about so much.
Like he might as well show up at some point because all of the, everything that happens in this movie rests upon supposedly David Morrissey's character new. that this guy was going to go and kill his girlfriend. And everybody has now made it. It's their life's work to prove this and either nail him for it.
or nail the cop for it for reasons I'm not quite sure I understand. Well, I also think that there was, I'm sure, a world where they thought that they could make her like the James Bond of narcissistic sex. obsessed you know and just every movie becomes like an R.L. Stine theme where we're supposed to pretend like she didn't do it but she did it anyway and I just don't know
Thus, why was there a sequel? The end of Basic Instinct sort of implied that she was going to kill again and definitely was probably killed Nick. I just think that... That could have just been it. So even when they announced they were going to make this, I don't think people were excited for it.
the only person who was excited for it was Sharon. Yeah, I mean, at this point, you know, the career was kind of drying up a little bit. And, you know, she, now granted, it's great that, you know, she was in her, I guess her 40s by this point. And playing this character who was, you know, still overtly sexual. And that was fine. But, like, there's just no justice done to this, you know, very interesting character.
And this was just not anybody's best time at all for anything. If you look at the thing, we debated this in the previous week. whether or not she's responsible for all the murders that she supposedly is responsible for. Because I just don't think, honestly. Who comes to fucking basic instinct for realism? That being said, like there are certain elements here that are just so fucking fantastical that it just doesn't make a ton of sense.
That she's still on the streets. Yeah, I mean, she's just got piles of bodies around her at this point. Very quickly, want to let you know, like, what a clusterfuck led into this movie. So, so that everyone is aware in the audience. Verhoeven walks away from this movie because he can, he can sense it stinks. Yep. He's like, I'm not going to get trapped into this. You can put me as an EP or whatever.
I don't really want to participate in this. So the producers have that first version of Basic Instinct 2, and they almost get it done. They approach Jan de Bont before he went to director's jail. John McTiernan before he went to federal fucking prison. Lee Tamahori and David Cronenberg. And they all just turn it down. And then...
Eventually, Stone takes them to court, comes away with a $14 million verdict. They can't pay it because the only way they can make money is to make a basic instinct too. And so they're like, all right. We'll just roll all these expenses into the production cost of Basic Instinct. And this is going to be such a huge sequel. We're bound to make money at it. Here is a list of actors they considered for the lead role. Buckle the fuck up.
I know one of them, but I was like, you know, if they'd gotten him, it would have been almost worthwhile. There's a couple versions in here that would have worked. Jude Law, Ewan McGregor, Gabriel Byrne, Javier Bardem. Benicio del Toro. You're going to reign him in.
Here's another really outside curveball. Viggo Mortensen. That's the one. I've been like, you know what? He could work. I was going to say, would have made it worthwhile. But he's going to follow up the fucking Lord of the Rings with... this piece of shit, this is falling. Literally, the last movie ended last year, and he's going to come off the set of that onto Basic Instinct 2? No. Give me a fucking break. Aaron Eckhart makes sense in the terms of like...
he'd accept that. Robert Downey Jr. makes sense in that if they could insure him in a foreign country, he probably... Has Robert Downey Jr. ever even done, like, a graphic sex scene? Not that I'm aware of. No, I don't even know if I want to see that at this point. You know what I mean? Like, I don't even know. I don't want to see it. He's probably two inches shorter.
than stone they would have been a weird man they start to go into a hotter older dude area where they go kurt russell bruce greenwood pierce brosden who I guess Pierce Brosnan is like the closest, I think, to what they were aiming for. No, no, no, no, no. I told you what they were aiming for. Who were they aiming for? They were aiming for Liam Neeson. Well, true. He's trying for Liam Neeson. True. Yes. It helps that David Morrissey, the actor who takes the role, if you close your eyes.
You hear Leonis. And then you open them and you're like, I don't believe his dick is big enough to be Leonis. A man we canonically know has a large Johnson. Patrick. Patrick. We know. We know this. This is a thing that is known about him. He is swinging hog. We know this. If you squint, if you open your eyes and then squint a little bit, it could...
Probably be Liam from afar. And you make him go like walk a mile and then like just turn three quarter turn. That's Liam Neeson. Fine. The one that they actually were signing to a deal, though. And ultimately Sharon Stone rejects him is Benjamin Brad, which obviously super attractive guy, but I also does not carry across the.
Well, here's a dipshit who's dumb enough to walk into this series of crimes. I don't buy him as someone that is absolutely gobsmacked because a woman thinks about sex the same way a man does. Right, yeah. At a certain point, the ideas of this start to get very old and they can't find a way to get to new ideas of what Catherine is. Because in the original, she has a solid mission.
You take a rogue cop who the system refuses to deal with and you get that asshole off the streets by deciding a murder plot around him involving a shitty rock star, two obsessed exes. One guy who dresses like a cowboy for no fucking reason. It just works because it does. And it plays like a high key parody of Hitchcock because you've got San Francisco. You have the whole vertigo-ness of it all.
But every time the old basic instinct theme kicks up in this, it's that thing you always mentioned, Gina. Don't remind me of a better movie during your shitty movie. Gina. It's true. She's a fucking assassin. It makes sense. The thing is, is that I think this was a weird, on top of being a bad script.
On top of not having Verhoeven at the helm, I think we were sharing. I'm not discounting her contributions to cinema overall. This is a desperate era. Even if you think about the way this film was supposed to come together. It was clearly a casualty of, you know, 9-11, puritanical need to just, you know, focus on patriotism. Everybody is morose. This is not the right time for an erotic thriller.
Nobody's jerking off. Like, we don't need this. And then I think she was a sacrificial lamb of trying to dip a toe out there. I mean, we're still talking about, like, what was 2006? That was still sort of like that frat guy, you know. old school road trip shit. I don't know a world where this would have fit in the right world. And we can always go back and say that. We can always blame it on
a world event, we can say, talk about this entire era. The worst of the worst could be between the Trump era, but we don't know until we look back. And I just think that if there had been more care applied to this, and definitely... I think if it didn't wait so long to come out. I mean, those are two completely different eras, you know? Well, this was sort of a period where we had a lot of, like...
Really, yeah, a lot of sequels absolutely no one was asking for. Yeah. You had stuff like, you know, Blues Brothers 2000. Ugh. You had Wall Street, Money Never Sleeps. Ugh. Yeah. The one sequel that Michael Douglas did agree to do. Right. What he's perfectly fine with is that in Ant-Man 3. And yeah, I just, it doesn't necessarily work unless you've got a real idea for what Catherine Tramiel can do.
I don't think this is the way to do it. It just, for as much as it replicates very distinct beats from the first one, it eradicates her queerness. It swaps out. a gold medal asshole in Michael Douglas for Dr. Woodblock from David Morrissey. Like he reduces the plot to, and again, forgive me for my language here. Pussy so good, I got a murder. That's what this comes down to. That is the thing. Yeah, that's the thing that I was talking about. At least in Michael Douglas' character.
He is established from the beginning as having not just a potential for violence. He is a violent, volatile person. Yes. That, you know, she brings out. the worst aspects of him. Whereas this guy is just some schlub who's assigned by a judge. to decide if she is too crazy to stand trial. And like just her talking about like her sex life and how much she likes sex and how much she has to be in control. This like melts his brain.
he's like it's like two sessions before he's just he's in a rage over thoughts of her yeah and like taking it out on his on you know his new girlfriend and like you know, having that HBO prestige drama from behind sex. Which is like, that's that shorthand for this guy's in some dark fucking shit, man. Yeah, he can't even face her.
Like, he is furious at her for, you know, I guess giving him an erection. I don't know. Is this, do you think they took the avatar of, like, of Triplehorn's character and just, like... embiggen that because it's very much gives off sort of like what her male a male version of her would have been yeah maybe maybe i mean in comparison like
Dr. Woodblock is not a grave danger to the ecosystem. And like, as Gina just said, unless he's actually the serial killer that Catherine makes him out to be, okay, fine. And frankly, I think it would be... Like this shitty movie more, I think it would be less of a shitty movie. And let's put it that way. I think this would be less of a shitty movie if he was secretly a serial killer that you could conclusively.
say was murdering this person and that, and Catherine takes him down because she's a better murderer. That's fine. I'm all here for that. But if he's just this. innocent schlub then he's just too uninteresting to do real damage so why are we fucking going through this and did she plan to drive through a bare-ass, empty London into the fucking river getting fingered by a guy with too big of an earring. I'm sorry. Too big.
I don't care how good you are at soccer. You have to consider size with your jewelry to the rest of your face. You're not on Golden Girls. I want to know how she made it to London, having been a cop killer. Well, I mean, she wraps that shit up in the first movie in sort of an unbelievably tight and tidy bow.
that even here she's like oh i walked away from that fucking thing grand jury did not believe shit and then in the end she goes about like and i killed this person because i didn't like them and then like wait a second I can understand you killing that rock star because, A, his shitty music. But... You're telling a room full of dudes that you love fucking on cocaine? This is the one guy whose dick works on cocaine? Yeah. And you gotta murder him? Yeah. And we are literally...
That is the film, which suspension of disbelief, which is what I learned from that movie. That movie does a lot of it. A lot of it. I think this movie goes one step further. Because Gina brought this question up to me before we got on there. Does Catherine have actual fucking superpowers in this movie? Because as she mentioned earlier.
Every character immediately and unquestioningly accepts everything that just falls out of her fucking mouth hole, regardless of her, of their personal motivations or hers. The world. bends to her goddamn will like she's magneto, but with sex. I truly think that that is the Freddy Krugerification.
Of Catherine Trammell, like that we are to believe we have now bought into the iconography by 2006. Think about it. Sharon Stone has been parodied. This character has been parodied in Fatal Instinct. She actually. shows up in Last Action Hero. I mean, she's a comic book character. She's a superhero. We are to believe... Whatever she wants us to believe. Like all she, like all she has to do is like smirk and say something like, you ever have sex while base jumping?
And, like, everybody's just, like, you know, wiping at their brow and unbuttoning the first couple buttons on her shirt. Yes! Do you ever do it while winning the gold in the X Games? Like, she's doing the do, but it's fucking. Yes. The do is fucking. Yes. That's what I'm saying. Like, men, women. Yes. Like, she just has this power. I mean, nobody appeals to everybody. Right.
You know, I mean, like, yeah, you've got, like, a lot of actors that a lot of people think are attractive, but not everybody thinks they're attractive. But she's just got, like, a grip on every single... person she meets yes and it's because of that i mean like i was 14 when that movie came out when base against no 12 it was the talk of middle school it was just the talk of middle school like it was
it was the crying game was the talk of middle school. And then I grew up in San Francisco, so that it would be the talk of San Francisco kids. Sure. But it's like, I remember like clearly. Just the power that it had over everyone. It was like the movie of the year without being qualifying for best picture. You know what I mean? I think it was fun and stupid. and a little bit serious, and it was something you could talk about with other people.
And have an opinion about that was worthy of conversation. And this just falls so far short of that. Yes. I mean, just not for nothing. But the director here, Michael Canton Jones, who had done a lot of British indie drama fare, he took this gig basically, in his words, because he was dead broke. Wow. That is the reason why. He is behind the lens here. And I don't think it really manages to rise to any sort of occasion. It really is the difference of...
A director with Verve who knows exactly the kind of movie he wants to make. Right. And someone else who's told, I don't know. make a basic instinct? I mean, an erotic thriller is something that you cannot be indifferent about. Right. Yeah. And I think this movie tries to start with that sort of Boundary pushing in some way that we allude to with the fucking, you know, doing the do style of sex where she's racing through London in a sports car and getting fingered. And this guy's getting like a.
A so-so handjob. He's not getting the most out of it, which is fine. But also, apparently, like, his lungs are paralyzed. Paralyzed? Yeah. Like, he didn't look like his lungs were paralyzed. No, at least other parts of him are rising to the occasion to a certain degree. Like, he was definitely breathing. Yes. Like, he did not look like, I can't breathe.
But then when they, at one point he turns to her and says, I can't move. And her reply is, you don't have to. You're in a car. Brilliant. Cut. Write the check. throw that piece of paper into the air, float down into your production logo. Put the cocaine with the hookers. You've made your, I just.
I'm an okay driver and I do drive stick, but I don't think I can get fingered and drive stick on the other side of the street. No, that's just not, that's not a good idea. That shit is superhuman. Okay. My brain does not work that equation. And it doesn't really for Catherine because by the time she's finally getting off after two solid minutes of this, she splashes down in the river. And the next thing you know.
She has a different fabulous outfit on and she's razzing some straight about how she likes to have sex in fast cars. This was such a bad decision on everyone's part because also... they couldn't even figure out a way to top the opening scene of the original, which is in retrospect is hot. It's sexy. It's different, but you know,
They could have gone a different direction and still made it hot and sexy and different. This is just real boring. It is. I just, I think they ran out of ideas. I think, I think Esther House is out of ideas by the time he hits Jade, which is just. the same beats of basic instinct, but shock of all shockers, anal sex happens in San Francisco and men lose their minds. Yeah, they're basically the same movie where like...
Men are absolutely shocked that women would willingly either engage in casual sex or have anal sex. San Francisco felt like a better... location for that type of acceptance of risk london i feel like there's just not there's not enough monocles dropping for my life Exactly. I mean, I realize Dr. Woodblock, you know, does the equivalent of dropping his monocle before he gets real mad.
for some reason. Yeah. Boner makes amazing. Yeah. I mean, before he starts like, you know, you'll get into fights with strangers and like punching walls and shit because he's so warty. Jesus. And that's after he's had sex with her, he continues to get madder and madder the more sex he has. Yes! It's like, you should have worked that out of your system by now.
I don't think people need to watch the entirety of this movie. It is free on the internet. No. You can, you can watch it. You can watch it on Tubi and everything. I would, I would ask people if you wanted an example. differences between the two films they're they are encapsulated in the law enforcement you know confrontation scenes they're in the sweat box in the first movie it's played for high camp
Everyone's sweating. There's a real weird energy. She's flashing dudes. It's very ripe with drama. And you get to this and you're like, I don't know. I've seen law and orders with more gripping sexual tension. Oh my God. And you've got like, this movie is an hour and 55 minutes long. You have three sex scenes. Just sort of indifferently tossed about. They just sort of happen. One of them is interrupted by a phone call.
Buy a phone call. It couldn't have been that fucking good if the phone rings and you're like, be right back. Hold on a minute. So Dr. Woodblock shows up. She's like, I don't need my lawyer. I got you fucking pegged. But that would have been better. If he was pegged, that would have been so much better. Just something. Just give me something. And I thought I was going to get something. Because I had such a small recollection of this film that when a pre-
Hannibal Hugh Dancy shows up for one scene. Like the sigh of relief that came out of me woke the dog. Yeah, and then he did it for like 15 seconds. He barely fucking shows up. Like the next time you see him. He is dead. He is a corpse. The next sequence that had any sort of verve to it, and you've mentioned it before, but I think it's bears repeating, is when this guy, Dr. Gerst, arrives.
And he's got 17 fucking pounds of hair on his head. He's just got this wig plopped on his head. I would say he's got six different wigs he's been fitted for and has worn all of them.
Two set on top of one another. It's like a layer cake of wigs. He has a furry football helmet on his head, and we're just supposed to take him seriously. I don't even know who this character is. I don't know what his... relevance to the plot it doesn't matter he's hungarian phil spender and the camera loves him is he central to the plot no is there a reason why charlotte rambling is in this movie no
Shit just happens in this film. It's just more people that, you know, Catherine just powerfully manipulates. And really, it's an excuse for the sound guy to capture high heel noise as they walk across cement. I'm telling you. If the sound guy was paid per clump, he's a fucking billionaire. Is that relevant to this movie? I don't know. I was so fucking bored. It's all I could think about was the sound design of high heels.
Because there's nothing left to talk about. I wonder if Sharon, did she, on top of the 14 that she was owed, did they just give her that? I don't honestly know. I mean, because they. I want to think she got something out of this. Basically signed legal documents. We'll never quite know. But we do know that the budget of this rolled all the legal expenses into it. And the budget was $70 million. And grand total, grand opening, grand closing, $6 million in the U.S. Yikes. 38 worldwide. Wow. So.
No one made money on this fucking deal. I hope Sharon bought a hell of a fucking house or managed to pay for her husband's toe that got bit off by a Gila monster. So insane. I remember that. That was incredible. That's fantastic. It's a great goddamn story. I mean... It's so much more interesting than this two-hour fucking movie I chose to watch and then forced...
the both of you to watch as well. I'm trying to see if Geely made more. I just always want to double check. It's like, no, it's a scar moochie of things. That's how you measure things. I mean, I, I, every time I, every time I play box office. Geely made more. Gina, wow. Every time I play a box office game, I'm always reminded of what a dire time period the O's were. for movies in general. After like the Lord of the Rings movies like that's it. I think you have to really get into the high
eight, nine, before you even start to repair some of the damage. Yeah, like four to six was just like... 2004 to 2006. You know, I'm ready. You know how every generation just obsesses over the era that came before them and sort of like the excesses of it. I really find Y2K to be like, I want to hold that one close because I find this is where we're going to start seeing the cracks through where we stand today.
is it starts around this time. It starts around like this pre 9-11 because the whiplash of 2000. into 2002 is like nothing I still to this day don't think we've ever been able to replicate inclusive of all the craziness that's happening the chaos happening right now I truly think that going from like we made it through the year 2000, we thought we were going to be blown up or whatever. Everybody's computer was going to blow up or whatever. And then we're just kind of cruising along and then...
bam, 9-11 and then you have to continue after that. I just don't think that the industry ever really knew what to do at that point. Here's another element that just... Feels so 2006. When Hugh Dancy is shown again, it is the interrupted sex. Dr. Woodblock shows up at what appears to be the same fucking apartment. that rat lived in in Harry Potter. And he is dead with a giant three-hold emo belt around his neck. And I would... Love to have seen Catherine Trammell.
showing up to buy this at Hot Topic, because it's the only place it could possibly be found. I mean, I think it was supposed to be his belt, like Hugh Dancy's character, because he looks like a little goth rocker lad. He's supposed to be like a tabloid reporter. Yes, he's the rock and roll tabloid reporter, I guess. The next hour you spend with Dr. Woodblock getting super hot and bothered that he's not sleeping with Catherine, up until the point he does.
And then he just gets crazier. He's so mad. He's so mad. He follows her at one point, speaking of Harry Potter, that she goes into the red light version of Diagon Alley and fucks a rando for reasons. And nothing comes of this, with the exception of... He eventually gets killed with another Hot Topic belt. She knows he's following her, right? Yes, she looks right at him as if to say, let's go up and be part of this orgy.
right near the skylight, because I know this doofus is following me into this rando fucking building. It's almost like it's not, it is not real, but it's almost so like they... wrote this on the fly like were they writing this as the movie was being made this is i can totally see that because it's nonsensical yeah these so-called twists in it
And this, like, coda at the end where she visits him at the psychiatric hospital, and he's just, like, kind of staring off into space in a wheelchair because that's how crazy he's gotten. He can't even walk anymore. And it's like, it's like, it is so incomprehensible at that point. It's like, it's like the end, the multiple endings of Clue, but she's like, well here, but it could have happened this way.
It could have happened that way. And it shows Catherine doing it. Or wait, it could have happened this way. It shows the cop doing it. But maybe it happened this way. And it shows Dr. Woodblock. And none of them make any goddamn sense. The craziest thing about this, because when Gina and I were texting about it, she's like, how could this possibly have happened? I'm like, Catherine gives Dr. Woodblock.
a copy of this fucking book that he's a character in. And he reads it on the biggest laptop you've ever seen in your life. In which he clicks that finger pad so much. It is aggressive, the amount of fingerpad clicking he's doing. And then he's convinced that Detective Asshole is faking all this evidence and that Hugh Dante was writing a...
article about the crooked cop, and his name is Detective A-Hole. Why can't you just say that? Why can't anyone just say what they're fucking doing? Because if they do, this movie would stop. And I'm sure that's honestly the same for almost any movie we cover on the show. But this is egregious. This is just too long and too stupid and not sexy at all. And then she's like, explain to him.
That, like, he helped her write the book. You already wrote the book. You already wrote the book. You gave him a fucking copy. And she's like, I changed the ending. The ending? It's 350 fucking pages he read in one night on a laptop on a CD fucking ROM. And, like, none of the, like, nobody's motives make any sense.
Everything seems to come back to this patient they keep talking about of Dr. Woodblocks, who ended up killing his girlfriend, which I feel like for a psychiatrist, that's probably not an uncommon. Right. You're dealing with unhinged individuals, whether or not like.
I just don't feel like it's that big of a thing. Like, he regrets not saying anything. It's not the same as, I go around San Francisco high on cocaine and shooting randos. That guy has to get off the street. Well, they were... going to pin this on you pin what on him you had a patient who like that happened did he give him the brick to to to kill his girlfriend it's like you know yeah i mean yeah actually psychiatrists do have you know doctor patient privilege
And I am sure that this is something that happens sometimes. You know what else happens to psychiatrists sometimes, I bet? Having female patients come in and talk about their sex lives. in a way that makes it seem like they are being, you know, reckless and impulsive. Are you all familiar with a diagnosis called borderline personality disorder? Oh, yeah. Impulsive sexual behavior is a cornerstone.
of borderline personality disorder, also bipolar disorder. So I really refuse to believe this is the first time he's ever confronted a female patient talking about impulsive sexual behavior. Like he's just like... what? And like, he becomes instantly obsessed with it. To the point where he's like, I gotta have sex with her, I gotta have sex with her, I gotta have sex with her, and then he does. I have to see what it's like to have sex with this woman who just, you know.
is promiscuous and dangerous because, you know, this must mean the sex must be crazy. It's like, sure. I guess. I guess. I mean, if your version of crazy sex is that she whips a belt around his neck like she's goddamn Indiana Jones, complete with a fucking whip sound. And you know what? Honestly, he does not look like he's a... No. So like, so like, you know, why he's even more into, I have to have you. I have to have you. I have to find my, my wife who I punched a guy to get to.
And then I find her neck slashed in the sleaziest high end bathroom I've ever seen in my life. It's just got ass worship art on the fucking wall. No one hears this. And then. He finds his ex-wife with her throat slashed and says, get the paramedics, call the fucking cops. And they're like, did you do it? No one does it and then yells at randos, call the cops in an ambulance. I'm trying to save this lady's life. And then he finally shows up at her apartment after all this rigmarole. And then...
We get the Catherine Trammell hot tub talk show. Hot tub! Murder me in a hot tub! It is so infuriating for them to... shit on any of the good parts of the first movie to justify the horrible parts of this movie it's just like five full minutes of re-litigating whether she was the killer in the first movie or not. She admits it, then she denies it, and then she gets angry at all of us for watching this movie, and I hate it so much. I'm not a huge fan of the original.
But the sex scenes are decent. And it's fun to look at. It's propulsive. It doesn't feel like its length. It's ludicrous, but in a way that it understands it's ludicrous. There's some eroticism to it. I think of the Catherine and Roxy grinding against each other in the book. That's got some eroticism to it. But here it's just like, these people don't even like each other.
To quote Roger Ebert, the Catherine Tremell role cannot be played well, but Sharon Stone can play it badly, better than any other actress in life. That's true. That's a great review. That's a great review. It's really horny. But it is very dialed in to just the kind of wrong it is. For him, it's compelling. Whereas... I don't get compelling out of this. This, it just becomes. It's not compelling. It's useless. It has no purpose. I don't think that it was necessary. It was.
It was deeply unnecessary. I think that, you know, I feel bad sometimes when I think about Sharon's career because, listen, there's a lot of potential that hasn't been. achieved and you see all of these women that are having this renaissance but they also made like you know, to me made like a lot of content, a lot of schlocky content, but also good content and like lasting stuff. I think Sharon has, you know, two, three good iconic roles.
And and this was supposed to be like her thing where every other man that she's ever been, you know, opposite. They have their thing. Right. And she this was going to be her thing. And she just simply. wasn't given the opportunity. And I think the desperation to get this on the screen clouded everything. We are adults. We can hold two thoughts in our head. A.
Misogyny is absolutely real. Sharon Stone was the kind of movie star no one really knew what to do with throughout the 90s and up until this point. And they kind of keep throwing her in this variation of the same role, but without her really being in charge. And I think what's interesting is like in Casino, she's this kind of person. who can be in charge in a small way, but her addictions are so much larger than her gravitas. And it just allows her to do these wild ass things.
People kind of go along with it or try to excuse it or try to brush it away. And it can bring down an empire or whatnot. And it's compelling. But there are not enough of those roles for her. And then when she gets to a role that's 1000% hers, she's undone, not necessarily because she's bad in this movie. Everyone's kind of bad in this movie. It's because the movie isn't inherently bad.
And so she is trying her best to rise above it. And there are moments when she does, but it's really built around this other fucking guy. Who's a complete load. Yeah, Dr. Woodblock is the main character here. Yes. Whereas in Basic Instinct, it was definitely a Nick and Catherine. it's a two-hander people yeah you know you don't realize i think until you rewatch it how she is this oversized presence even when she's not on screen and in here it tries to do that
But because you have an entire movie's awareness of who she is as a person, every time she acts in contrary nature to that previous film, it just bumps. It feels weird. Winter, as you said. It's like going from Nightmare on Elm Street 84 to Freddy's Dead 92 with nothing in between. Just think about it. Gina, think about it.
Think about it, Gina. I don't know. I am totally thinking about it. You are 100% correct. It's just like, I mean, I don't find it interesting to see this supposedly normal average guy. go from zero to murder because, you know, he can't stop thinking about her. Yes. Come on. That's not even good in like a porn. That's like a really bad porn. Like, I guess maybe if they had had a relationship. Right. And she ended it, maybe. Maybe. But, like, it's the mere thought of it.
That just absolutely drives him into a psychotic rage. And it's like, come on, man. Come on. Everyone around Catherine keeps talking about how brilliant she is. She's so brilliant. She's so smart. She's so this. She's so that. And then. Catherine talks about Dr. Woodblock and that you're so controlling. You want to be in control. It's all about control with you. And we never see that from either of them.
This is just words that people say. Everything is told and not shown. And that right there is, that's just bad screenwriting right there. It's just shocking. And that's why I think the problem is, you know, I think she's trying. You know, I think she might be the only actor in this that's trying, but, like, you can only do so much with this absolute god of a screenplay.
Which I think you were right, Winter. I think they weren't finished with it. No. When they were making it. That's why I think it literally has three different possible endings. Yeah, so which one is right? Is Catherine Trammell behind this? Like... It's kind of proposed that she is in the first one. Or the more interesting idea is the fact that she can sense that he is an actual killer and that she is going to expose him.
and goes through all these lengths to make him so out of control that he then does something as public as shooting a crooked cop in his cohort's apartment. And he's so broken by this. The second to last scene he's in, he's just screaming on the floor. And then the next scene, he's catatonic. Right.
He's broken. And she goes through and says, oh, I changed the end of the novel. And did you do it? Did the cop do it? I'll tell you what. They'll never find out I did it. You know, wink, wink, snidely whip. This died a deserved death. And I don't know how you can come back to basic instinct after so many years of other people attempting to make it and also fail that you think.
I know how to do this. We definitely don't need Paul Verhoeven. We can just muscle our way into this. The reason why there aren't many good erotic thrillers. Because you've got to address them with a little bit of a sense of humor and understand that these are sex scene delivery devices. Nobody is watching. I mean, I would say the only erotic thriller anybody would watch thought would be Fatal Attraction. Anything else is just like, you know, I'm just spinning my wheels until we get some nudity.
And, but people treat them like, no, that this has to be, you know, this has to be a movie for adults. This has to be a serious film. It's like, no, your job is to put actors in impossible. sexual positions that human beings cannot recreate in real life. I think this brings us to the point where we have to choose our own death venture where we decide of the deaths shown on screen in this movie. They're not even that good.
winter you were saying that you were looking up the deaths that she's responsible for and is really long and i was counting up and i came up with three direct deaths in this movie i think you're talking about because there is a There's a Wikipedia page for Catherine Tramiel. Okay, that's just everyone. And it does have, like, a list of, like, either suggested or proven victims. So, in this movie, you can drown in a car after a so-so hang job.
You can get strangled to death with an emo belt. And that happens twice. And then you can just be shot to death in a lady's foyer. And that's it. She's in a coma, they say. Oh, that's right, right, right. I don't know that we're ever told she, I mean, I don't know how bleeding out just puts you in a coma. I mean, it doesn't really matter. Because again, like her character becomes your own.
Right. She's in like four scenes and then she has her throat slashed and then we're told she's lady friends. Yeah, she's the other one that's like, oh, Catherine told me about you. And it's like, how did Catherine get to you? How did you become gal pals? is that still the word we're using? So, Winter, what say you? Obviously. It'll be really cold. It'll be really sad. I'll go out with a whimper. But it's got to be the handjob fingering.
Yeah, but supposedly, like, your lungs are paralyzed, too. But if your lungs are paralyzed, he's already, like, halfway out by the time he hits the water. Right. But I guess being shot, at least it's quick. I will take that over being manually strangled to death with a belt that's, you know, the lead singer of The Used just took off his skinny dress.
I was going to say that. I was going to say that. Yeah, but they don't have to be, like, topless. And that's, like, meh. I mean, you know, Hugh Dancy's little bird chest, that's all right. But, like, I don't want to be all hanging out with everybody. So, yeah, I guess I'll take a shot in a foyer, too. Yeah, I'm going to drown in the car, even though I don't like heights.
At least I get to see the streets of London when they've been cleared out by the police. And you've got a very large earring. You've got such a large earring. Such a big earring. That'll pay for the funeral itself. That just about does it. You know, we have a page around where you can find bonus episodes for us. You can find us on the socials, mostly blue sky and winter. Where can people find out what you'll be doing? You know, I'm.
on blue sky now so winter dot b whatever the hell it's supposed to be bsky dot social i mean it's a new world new terrain we're just trying to navigate i'm still in I don't want to be, so don't even try to find me over there. We can't find each other over there anyway. I don't go there. I go there to ridicule it and spit on it.
And then I say I'm not coming back. The relationship is so abusive. But it's partially your job. If you didn't have this job, you wouldn't be forced to go to ask. 100%. That's something that... still a component of what you put in a contract I'm going to deliver. Yes. So you have to keep a presence there. I do not. You do not. I'm on Instagram.
Way more. I think Instagram is interesting these days, I guess. It's just a real, another, it's a, it's a place to rant. So I'm at winter there and you know, I'm just doing my thing. I'm just, I'm just hanging out. I'm just being a guest on podcasts. I literally tried to launch a podcast. I made it four episodes. And then I was like, I can't do this anymore on my own. And that was just, I was tired.
I'm just being honest. I can be honest with the book. I got tired. I'm tired. I'm tired. But I like. being a guest it's way more you had a you had a very long running podcast before that it's not like you're new to the game thank you thank you thank you for making me feel better about it because i really felt guilty you've been in these podcast streets for a while thank you dude you're allowed to
Be, you know, take a break. You know, recenter yourself. Thank you. Thank you, brother. I appreciate that. Acknowledge me where I'm at. Thank you for meeting me there. I will take you any way I can get you. Thank you. Your presence is so fucking delightful.
I love you guys. I don't want to be. We love you right back. Gina, where can people find you on these here internets? I write about movies and television pop culture at my Substack. You can watch these things at Substack.com, and I am predominantly on... blue sky. Do it today, people. Check it out. Don't worry, folks. The body count will continue for myself, for Gina, and for Winter. Bye-bye, everybody. Bye!