Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, dying times here. That's right, we're talking about Carrie 1976 on Kill by Kill. Greetings and salutations, Internet. It's your old pal, Patrick Hamilton, coming to you once again from ye old town of... Oh, they don't really say it in the movie. Oh, you know, I try to remember the name of it. It's Chamberlain. Chamberlain. Chamberlain. Yes.
I looked it up because I'm like, am I missing something here? It's intentionally fake, but it's Chamberlain, Maine. Anyways, this is the Kill by Kill podcast where we talk about horror movie characters in the order in which they die in the hopes that... We can make fun of them in that order. And of course, there's only one person I trust that she will actually tell me what it means when the entire senior class of girls starts yelling, plug it up at me. The one, the only.
Gina Radcliffe. How are you doing today, Gina? I can't come up with a pithy joke. This movie is just too sad. It is. It's sad and disturbing. It's sad and disturbing, but also... There is a joy within it. I mean, everyone's doomed. But that's not to say that there isn't a... a silver lining thread of joy within the moment of it. Cause no one knows this is the last thing they're going to do on earth. Well, yeah, that is true. Brian De Palma does a very good job of.
Even if you know going in what's going to happen, it's like, oh, this is extra tragic because none of these people know what's about to happen. It's like watching a disaster movie, basically. I think it is. It's a slow burn disaster movie. It's as if, you know, I know like things like Earthquake and the Towering Inferno and whatnot. They like they build up to the event. And in some of them.
You know, that event happens at least, you know, within a half an hour to 45 minutes. But here it's really a long walk up until the point that they. you know they've lit this fuse for a long time they just don't know it's going to explode they just think it'll fizzle And actually, it explodes all of them. No one in this movie, with the two exceptions, lives to tell the tale. Right. So my question to you almost immediately is...
Did you read Carrie first or did you watch Carrie first? I am pretty sure I actually read the book first. Probably, almost certainly too young for it. I was maybe 11 or 12. Oh my. I could tell you exactly where I was. I was staying over my aunt's house. Her husband was a, he was actually a horror fan.
possibly where I wasn't where I might have been inspired by it at some point a little bit and I was you know I already had had was having sleeping issues at that point so I was I was up late looking for something to read I was like oh I've heard of Carrie. Right. Let me read this. And it's actually a very short book. I don't even think it's, I don't even think it reaches 200 pages. It ends with an autopsy report, which is, you know. A banger way to go out. Yeah. Of a child.
She's 17, but she's a child. And I could not put it down. I did not find it particularly scary. I found it upsetting. Um, because, you know, not to get too brutally honest on, on, on Maine, but, um, in middle school, I, I had a problem with being bullied by mostly girls. Um, cause girls are there. Actually, no. Children are kind of super extra shitty at that core. Things are happening to my body and my brain that I don't understand age. I'm about maybe...
11 to about 14 or 15 uh they're super shitty To each other, to themselves, to their parents sometimes, but mostly to each other. You've got your little tribes forming. You've got your, you know, one day they're your friend and the next day they're not for some reason. you very much.
you know, feeling out different people for their weaknesses. So, I mean, I'm, you know, looking back on it, I'm like, eh, that wasn't that bad. And, you know, and I don't think, you know, I'm not one of those people who tries to one up people about how, you know, shit.
their school experiences was because for most people it's you know particularly middle school is not a great time yeah um but you know i did find the the the book upsetting and a there but for the grace grace of god Well, yes, I mean, the dials are turned all the way up for dramatic purposes as the whole point of, you know, when you read a novel.
When you watch a movie, you're not going there for dire realism. You're going there for the dramatics of the situation to be maximized to the point where it makes sense to be put on the silver screen. I, too, read this book in an afternoon. i believe in my living room uh it's there's not a lot of wasted space to it yeah no it's it's very for a stephen king book it is very stripped down
Well, he often says about it that he originally had intended it to be one of those short stories that he sold to men's magazines or sci-fi magazines. But he just kept writing and writing. And it went past the word count, which they would pay for. And so he threw it away. And his wife rescued it from a trash can and said, I actually like this. I think it's worth you exploring this. And he said, well, I'm not going to make it.
Any money, it's past the word count. It's like, it's worth the experiment. And there we go. The manuscript lands. on someone's desk. They try to option it. The eventual producer of this movie gets the same thing. He does option it with paying King, I believe $2,500 at the time. They try to sell it all over town and no one really wants to pick it up.
And then it just so happens that one of King's publishers moved to MGM UA as an overall development deal. And she picked it up there, but the hard line was it had to be under $2 million. So. This thing was made for less than $2 million. It goes on to make nearly $34 million, which is a 17 times multiplier. So while $34 million does not sound like much in today's parlance, just consider... the amount of effort that was put into it versus the payoff they got out of it.
And I didn't see the movie for a very long time. Although in grade school, a kid named Ernie in my class claimed over and over again that there was a sequence in Carrie that takes place in the girl's bathroom. in which Carrie makes someone's head explode. Was he confusing it with scanners, maybe? I honestly am wondering. Ernie's was the same guy who read the novelization of Empire Strikes Back and told everyone on the plane.
feel that darth vader was luke's father so that was fucking nice of him so ernie loved to spoil shit um so yeah i don't know if he had heard about it second hand and was trying to It seemed like, hey, I've watched this R-rated movie. Let me tell you all about it because I was wrapped. Did he confuse it with Scanners or The Fury? Who can say? But it would be in my teen years that I would eventually.
watch carry i believe the cable version of carry that that aired on like a tnt or usa or an amc yeah well then also you know i'd seen the clip uh the clips in um Terror in the Isles. Oh, of course. Yes, yes. Yeah, a lot of it. There's quite a bit in that. Because again, like the book, it's very stripped down. Like, in the book, you do get some suggestion that this is sort of a thing.
that you're born with this telepathy because uh the the book ends with the autopsy and then like a letter that a completely unrelated character is writing to a relative and talking about how their little girl is able to make rocks fall from the sky or something. It's so funny because she's just like so chatty about it. Like, oh, isn't it neat that she's able to do this? And I'd be like...
We're not going to tell anybody about this. Well, within the book universe, this is like that one little hairline crack that becomes a spider web that just, you know, permanent dribbles into. the rest of king's work in that carry white's cousin turns out to be the lead of the dead zone and his accident sort of Triggers the family curse. Triggers the family curse. He's also a little religious. He's a, he's a virgin.
yeah even though he's like 35 yeah yeah well you know if you come out of this family i don't know that sex is your highest priority it seems like a bad start to it yeah um Yeah, if you... You go and you talk about like how the how we sold the book and how this was Tabitha's idea. It's also worth noting that it was, you know, it was Tabitha who told him he should keep going with Pet Sematary, even though he found it upsetting. And basically, this is this is why they've been married.
for 800 years yeah she's a very good editor and judge of material yeah right but uh he actually goes into a lot of the writing process behind writing carrie in his book on writing a book which I love very much and have read about five times. And there was a fairly poignant section in which he writes about...
two classmates of his that sort of inspired Carrie and both were, you know, kind of the, the, you know, kind of emphasize just the casual cruelty of teenagers. And, and I remember one of them was a girl who.
whose family was so poor that she... had to wear the same clothes to school every day and then apparently her family came into some money and she bought a new more fashionable outfit but like she still wasn't accepted by by the the and i and i got that because i kind of experienced that where no matter how hard i tried like you know
People can smell like, you know, a faker. Not a poser, but like someone who, you know, is trying very hard to be cool and popular, but, you know, they're missing something. And so it's kind of worth, you know, if there's anybody in middle school listening to this, I can't imagine why I, you know, I would say, you know, if you feel that way, just, you know. Accept who you are. Do the best you can to get through it. Don't try to win these people's approval because it's not going to work. Yeah.
But yeah, if you want to deep dive into the creative process of writing, Carry On Writing is a really good read for that. Yeah, it's surprising in some respects and not surprising in others that this first effort isn't, you know. diving it's it's like a stephen king novel on fast forward because it's the destruction of a town my favorite king trope um just it all happens very quickly
Oh, yeah, definitely the seeds of stuff that he loves are here. Like, you know, psychopathic teens. Here you've got... You've got, well, no, I would say the only one that's really, I would classify as a psychopath is Billy. Cause, cause, cause Christine is, she's, she's kind of long for the ride. She's a bully, but she's not like.
you know, gleefully, you know, abusing animals and, and, you know, and you also, you know, as is often the case, he's also abusing her, which I think is an interesting, he's slapping her around and let's see, he'd like, he'd do pretty much. rapes her in one scene and and like you know not and you know it's interesting like you don't really feel sorry for her
But you do see that like, you know, bullies a lot of times. There's like that trickle down effect where, you know, like when they say like bullies sometimes have a hard time at home while here she's having a hard time from her horrible boyfriend. But so you've got, you know. you know, pathological bullies, small towns, religious freaks, you know, ineffectual teachers. These are, you know, these are all things that he would, these were all wells that he would dip back into over and over again.
Yeah, Chris is kind of a different kettle of fish altogether in this because I would push back a little bit on whether or not she is not the classic psychopath or the classic king bully in that respect. I would say there's more to her that is about manipulation. The way she has set herself up in this high school has something to do with class.
So let's table that for a second. Her parents are rich. You know that more in the book than you do in the movie. But Chris is very laser focused on hating Carrie because as long as everyone is. you know, directing their ire at Carrie, they will put up with her shit. Right. And that's, you know. And that's very much how bullying works is, you know, we let's focus all our energy on this one person. And that's why you get.
you know, what they call toadies, which are, you know, people who would just kind of go along with what a bully will do while not actively participating, just sort of passively participating because they don't want that sort of negative attention turned on them. And that's where you kind of get Norma into the mix and you get Helen into the mix. And they're very willing to be, you know, have Chris's back because that means.
That Chris is not looking at them. The only one who shows even the barest bit of backbone is Sue. And I feel that has a lot to do with a shame. She suddenly sees her actions have consequences. B. she knows time is short this is the senior prom they are all leaving this place the hierarchy will not last where she is going in life chris might not be going anywhere
But Sue actually is. Yeah, no, Chris is going to stay in that shitty town with her shitty boyfriend because she knows that she's not going to be hot shit anywhere else. Exactly. That is her source of power. And so, you know, for Chris, Carrie is like chum in the water. You just, if you're going to rule by fear, you have to have an example. If Chris doesn't rule.
She will become the target of everyone else that she's bullied and manipulated at this point. She's like, this is weird to say, but she's like a microcosm of replacement theory mania. Oh, no, yeah, no. He understands the bullying mind a lot. Yes. You know, some would say, not unfairly, that sometimes his bullies tend to be a little over the top. I would say like Butch, is it from It?
right yeah henry no henry which was bad sure the whole lot of them henry bowers i thought was considering that he's supposed to be like 12 is he that was a little much um but you know But he gets that mindset very well. Yeah. And I also feel like what King does is. interpret the rot of the overall environment and funnel it through specific people and because there's a psychological you know supernatural aspect to it someone like henry bowers um
is not just operating on his own. Everything is tilting towards Henry Bowers and all the bullies in that particular town. Derry is tilted in their favor. Yeah, it's sort of, you could say, you could say the town is kind of manipulating him a little bit. And, and, and also that he's just, you know, mentally ill. And also, you know, has suffered from a lifetime of, you know, horrific abuse from his own.
Again, not to make him seem sympathetic, but these things don't just happen in a vacuum. It's an explanation. It is not an excuse for what he does. But I feel like... In this film in particular, what Chris is able to do is act as a bit of... a small version of dairy herself. She creates an environment in which people benefit from being mean and horrible. And part of that is, is sort of keeping Billy on a leash.
So that she can, through her manipulation, get him to do things that she will, it's like a degree of separation between her and what's going to happen. She very much. wants to humiliate Carrie in any way possible, but particularly this grand manipulation at the end. Because Carrie has shown a level of humanity. And rising above her circumstances and deciding to do something that is outside of what everyone else would say is her ability to do.
She's going to show up at this prom like she belongs there. And she's going to look attractive doing it. Right. She looks great. One thing I think. that the movie lacks that the book has is it feels a little like not quite clear how tommy feels about the situation I feel that Sue and Tommy in the book are more clearly delineated as these people are okay.
You know, like they don't mean to do her harm. Tommy in particular, like he's not super great on the idea of taking her to the prom, but only because he was expecting to take Sue to the prom. And this is kind of like a last minute thing. And then, you know.
then she you know he shows up to pick up Carrie like oh okay she's she's pretty you know this is not this is not a charity mission and and and you know and the more time they spend together at the prom he genuinely grows to like her as a you know not necessarily as a as a potential girlfriend but but you know as a person he sees her less as a burden he has to carry right he's enjoying the time he's been asked to spend with her this person is a
real person who has wants and needs and isn't just the target of you know the hysterical target of all these girls something which i don't have to ever deal with right he's also And this is more so in the movie than in the book. But he's a big dumb idiot.
yeah he's like a big he's like a big doof in the in the in the book where we're in the in the you know the movie he's just kind of a you know a little bit of a you know sensitive pretty boy but like he's emotionally in touch with certain things but he Again, he just because he's empathetic doesn't mean that he's like smart and with it. He's not any of those things.
And maybe he might have been one of these days. He would have come to a realization, a place in his life where he would have pushed more. intellectually than he's been forced to in high school, which is not uncommon. Yeah, because he's been coasting because he's allowed to do that. Because he's so fucking pretty.
William Kent is really pretty. And he's a nice guy. Yes. You know, I mean, in a school full of assholes, he's like, you know, he stands out just by, you know, not being shitty all the time. Exactly. And as such, you know, he takes on this assignment from Sue because this is important to Sue. And he's like, well, I don't really get it.
But I get it means something to you. And as because I have real feelings for you, I'm going to do that. I will take on this assignment. And it is over the course of that dance that he, you know. gets a moment to actually take in Carrie as a human being. I think he's slightly flummoxed early on in the movie. When he talks to her in the library and is trying to ask her to the dance. And she's like, no. He's like, well, of course not.
Like, of course not. I mean, like, I don't know if you ever went through a period where, like, you know, this is another thing that kids love to do. You know, when you're not really at that point where you're dating people yet and someone comes up to you, you know, hey, you know, Jessica, she likes you.
she wants you to ask her to the dance and like, and like, you know, you find out, you know, no, she didn't. This is like a, you know, this is like a whole, you know, prank that people are playing. So like, there are points that you get when you're, you know, a teenager and often into adulthood. where like someone is nice to you.
in a way that like makes you suspicious you know what i mean like am i being set up here you know i mean like like is this are you are you sure are you playing some kind of prank on me and we're so emotionally vulnerable at that moment in time. You know, if you're not used to having a lot of attention from, you know, whatever gender you're attracted to, and all of a sudden someone's telling you that like, you know, like this popular kid who's never like.
like, you know, spoken a single sentence to you and saying, you know, you're being told they have a crush on you, you know, you're like, no, I don't, this, something smells here. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna, I don't blame her for being like, absolutely not. Her warning, despite the fact that she's under terrorist siege at home, there are many things about this that feel like yet another setup from this group of...
complete assholes that have surrounded her since entering school in first grade in the book. Um, till this point, like, why would I, why would you invite me to step on another fucking rake? Right, exactly, exactly. It's like, what kind of idiot do you think I am? And that's, I think, one of the things, this particular interpretation of Carrie, and it's so interesting that we... This is an unintentional franchise in a weird way because there have been three remakes. There's been one sequel.
There was an entire Broadway show of it. I have held off on doing Carrie for so long because I could not decide whether or not this was a franchise we needed to talk about or we just.
could take on the movies willy-nilly. True of The Exorcist, too. Yeah, I don't consider it a franchise because it keeps telling the same story over and over. Right. And so what I think the 76 version... does super, super well, and it is difficult for anyone else to really capture because the plot is so familiar at this point. And the story is very straightforward. I don't have to tell people the plot of Carrie because you know it all. But what this does is just portray a time and place.
for the audience and that is the hell of high school and is full of elements that no one actually goes through the whole telekinesis and the pig blood proms and all that but Those are just fantastical extensions of what it feels like inside your brain when you're in high school. And the power fantasy here is if everyone hates you, what if you...
could do something about it. And then everyone focuses on the one person who they should not do something to. And they do it over the course of 16 to 17 years. And then lo and behold, she can do something about it. Right. You know, it's the, you know, taking her for granted is we can always pick on her. She's never going to fight back. Yeah. And we feared that.
Others will know our ignorance about life. Oh, I don't, I don't, I haven't, I'm still a virgin. I haven't gone that far with a boy or girl. No one knows.
the weird intrusive thoughts that Paul threw out my hormonal brain. And if they ever find out, they will reject me. And that is the fear. Every single person is living here in this. And that Carrie is like, personified by right because while they they know shit is weird at home they couldn't possibly know how weird it is and if they were ever to know
They would not be kind to her about it. It would only make things worse. No, it'd just be more ammunition. Yeah. And so I think everyone has felt at one point in time, they want to. Control the way your peers or your parents see and interact with us. And Carrie, in the course of the book and the movie, is given that power. She does not view it as a positive. This is not something she wants. The only thing it does is push her to not be afraid to actually do something.
Yeah, no, I think that she is, you know, when everything goes down, I think she just kind of goes into autopilot. Oh, absolutely. I think that is one of, you know, there are many ways that one could. Praise Sissy Spacek's portrayal in this movie. I think it's brilliant. She was nominated for an Oscar. It is well fucking deserved. She even makes She was like 27 here And she still makes a pretty convincing teenager Well she's a bird She's a tiny bird person
And, you know, she's got that freckle face. She looked very youthful. And when she's in Coal Miner's Daughter, she goes from like... I think 15 to her forties, like 15 to 35, I think. Yeah. And she's convincing in all those stages. It's just, she was in a rare spot here, but. After the pig blood incident, her conscious brain turns off. She is telekinesis at that point. The rest of her is turned off until she takes a bath. There's no emotion on her face. She is not providing effort at any point.
There is one part of her brain operating, and that is survival. And that means everyone else has to die. I think that that's interesting because in the book, it kind of suggests she sort of... trapped in her own mind and like and like sort of you know almost observing what's happening from like a separate like like let's not like like she's almost like having an out-of-body experience
And I think for people who have been through very traumatic incidents and feel like, oh, it happened very fast. Oh, it went very slow. I kind of saw it from a separated view. It's this thing that your mind can do. Where it just goes, okay, this is happening, but you don't have to really feel all of this right now. We're going to put this in a nice drawer for you and surprise you for the rest of your life when it emerges.
And she never gets to that stage. But that is what I think is a brave choice. And the choice that no one else seems to make in the circumstances when they carry out everyone else. What if I. What if I made things happen? And you're like, no, no, no, no, no. There's a part of her that's making shit happen. That's doing all the active work. She's a shambling skeleton covered in meat.
She's like, you can't even say she's really controlling what happens because it's just sort of, it's just happening. Yes, it is a part of her brain. What one dog trainer used to refer to as lizard brain and dog. Like they just, they don't know why they're digging at the floor. They just know this is very important. Yeah. She's just, it's her brains basically in, in like primordial, you know, kill, kill, kill mode. You just step aside.
I'm going to take care of this. At a future date, you will come back into play. But you're not important right now. What's important right now is that I murderize everyone in this gymnasium. Right. And so I think that's part of what this film does so well is its highs are so high. I mean, I, I've always goofed on the sped up. Let's try on tuxedo sequence here.
But again, it's just, but again, it's just showing, you know, teams, they're having a good time. They got their whole lives ahead of them. They've got about eight hours left.
you know here's this silly thing that just doesn't matter it'd be like watching something you know you expect a scene like that and then ends with they all die in a drunk driving accident at the end of the night or something you know it's like ah the teen years nothing to worry about Um, and like, I would posit that every high school horror movie that comes out post carry is in some way, shape or form manipulating the DNA of.
the characters to serve its own needs from here on out. Like the success of this film spurs the development of the babysitter murders that becomes Halloween, which is the guarantor of every teen horror flick that comes after this. Like this is definitely. a major studio success, but major studio horror films are like grand affairs. This came from a book. It is.
It has a literary history, even though it's a very short literary history. It's done by someone, you know, Hollywood is crowned one of the new masters. Whereas... When Carpenter and Deborah Hill come on, they're kind of surfing the carry wave a little bit. Well, yeah. And also, you know. Halloween does not have a guaranteed draw for teen audiences with John Travolta.
Right. Who was, it's not even arguably, it is definitely, he was the biggest star in that cast. Yes, whereas the biggest star in the Halloween cast is PJ Souls. As should be. But yeah, I mean, Sissy Spacek was not necessarily her first movie, certainly her first major film. I mean, does this come out before?
This comes out after Badlands, but I would... Yeah, but Badlands, that was kind of more of an artsy critics-friendly movie. I don't think, like most of Terrence Malick's movies, I don't think it did particularly well at the box office. didn't have bad lanes fever yeah i mean it's a movie i very much love but i i will concede that you know upon original release i don't think it did particularly well yeah but i i would say like
And just to finish the Halloween thing, I'm not saying that Halloween isn't inspired. Anyone who's heard us talk about Halloween, we obviously worship at the altar of it. But you can tell that like... Deborah Hill, in particular, in writing the script, kind of goes, I'm going to take that frenemy dynamic, and obviously I'm going to dial down the absolute dramatics of it and make it more of a passive push-pull.
That feels way more real. The part of that movie that's unreal is this demonic ghost of a human being in a meat suit who eats dogs and kills people.
right right right in fact you have pj souls essentially playing a very similar character in both movies where she's kind of you know the the the goofy friend you know whereas just the difference in carrie is you know oh she's she's a bully too where where you know in in in but yet also in halloween you can certainly see where annie might have the potential to be a very good bully
She might have the potential to do that, yes. Because she's very sarcastic. She's, you know, she's... not super nice to laurie all the time and and like you know seems very you know amused to the point of you know making laurie uncomfortable that you know she's not she's afraid to date anyone and and yes you could see the potential there yes but she's mystified by it doesn't make sense to her because if you could why wouldn't you and the reason is that laurie
isn't that into a vast majority of high school guys and isn't just gonna throw it out there just to get it out of the way that's not the way she can't she can't bully larry because larry is smarter than her and larry has you a you a certain amount of confidence even if she is like not particularly comfortable talking to boys yet Right. But she knows, she knows who she is. And that can sometimes feel like a threat to you because as with it as Annie is.
She doesn't entirely know who she is quite yet. Right. And that's just like a softer version of this. It's a very effective manipulation of this works. How can I use that dynamic to my advantage in this other film, which the emphasis is not female friendships, but female friendships make Halloween. come alive when it's not trying to murderize people, which doesn't happen until the last 40 minutes. Right. But that's kind of, I feel like Carrie.
opens the floodgates for all that other magic to happen. It... provides a you can point a target at it go it's kind of like this but here's all the variations that don't make it specifically that and make it our own original thing um and The other element of Carrie that I really enjoy, I feel like really shines off the screen. It's like when you're that age, everything is life and death. And the thing is, in a horror movie.
everything is life and death too right exactly you know it that is a teen mindset it's it's how we're you know constantly getting shamed from one extreme to another and Slammed. I'm sorry, not shame. We're getting slammed from like joy, compassion. You're exhilarated. You have desires. You can't believe how beautiful the world is. It's all aimed at against you and you are powerless to stop anything. And all this happens over the course of the movie and people's responses to it.
whether or not they're completely complicit, whether or not they are the thing that sets off the incident, whether or not they're just trying to exonerate themselves, whether or not they're just a passive, you know, adult. who are just gliding through the life here in this movie, they all pay for it in one way, shape or form. There are certain aspects. I prefer the book over the movie. I do.
like and find it poignant that the gym teacher uh miss uh miss collins yeah miss collins i think she has a different name in the book it's one of one of uh stephen king's like New England kind of weird French-Canadian names. I think it's like Desjardins or something like that. Yeah, I think you are. she actually survives she manages to she manages to escape uh during the the black prom which is what they uh they call it in the in the book um and she like the the the
The book is almost epistolary in some ways because you have excerpts from newspaper articles. You have Sue has written a memoir of her experiences. You have like trial transcripts or some sort of like hearing about what happened. There's like a JFK style.
you know, congressional hearing. Right. Because basically the whole, the entire, in the book, the entire, she levels the entire town. Whereas, whereas in the, in the, in the movie, most of it is, is centered on the school. Well, they don't have the budget.
Well, of course not. They can burn down a gym. They can flip a car. Yeah, that car flipping, definitely. That's where a lot of the money went. But anyway, Ms. Collins slash Desjardins, she basically is just... just consumed with guilt over what's happened because you know which she shouldn't be because she was one of the few people who was
pretty nice to carry like she puts shame and being you know kind of disgusted and frustrated with her for being so upset about getting her period um you know which is really i mean that's her mother's fault that she she you know did not know it was going to happen
and did not know what this was thought she was dying freaked out uh that's that's a problem yeah we'll get to the parental stuff in a minute but yeah no that's its own section but that's not yeah that's not carrie's fault that she that she you know she you know did not know how to react getting her period for the first time but uh miss collins you know she immediately feels regret for acting that way and attempts to
show kindness to Carrie, Carrie more or less rejects it because, again, she's at this point where she's like a wounded animal. Yeah. And anybody trying to show kindness to her, she thinks she's being set up. Yeah. And so basically, Ms. Collins' regret is...
i should have tried harder to reach her and and it's like if you you feel you feel most sorry for her and for sue because it's like you know sue tried to rectify the situation but the reason she's trying to rectify the situation has more to do with Sue.
than it does yeah definitely you know she wants to make herself feel better for her own appalling behavior right but i do think her intentions were pretty good and and i do i do believe that her her shock and horror what you know what chris and the others had planned is genuine yes she absolutely did not she did not want any of this to happen beyond the i would like to give carrie white
One decent high school memory. And that's a lovely idea and thought at a certain point it does, you know, Tommy. pushes her and this is more from the book than the movie it happens a little in this movie um and it happens a lot in the broadway show of what exactly is the goal listen i think carrie Should not be bullied like this. I think this is a terrible incident. But what are we doing here for this? And it's like this idealized thing of I'm going to give.
Carrie White, the greatest high school memory that will assuage me of any guilt I might feel of my participation or participation by not trying to stop it at all for fear of what Chris Hartigan will do. to me if I do and that plays a lot more into her like I'm isn't it great that I'm sacrificing my high school prom for Carrie White
There's a little of that running through her. Oh, yeah, yeah. It's sort of like, you know, you publicly announcing that you're giving to charity where it's like, you know, are you doing this because you want to help or because you want praise for what a good person you are? Right.
She's she's going for clout a little bit in a pre clout. This is something that she hopes to turn into like a college essay at some point or, you know, you know, explain a time when you were absolutely selfless and altruistic. It's like, well, I got this. I got the school underdog a date to the prom, you know? Yeah. Well, this reclamation project is something I took on. It was my idea. And as such.
Aren't I fantastic as a result of that? I'm not saying that's a hundred percent of Sue's motivation, but she's as much of a kid as anyone else. It's not 100% selfless. No. Yeah. Um, but. She's actually accomplishing more. Granted, it will all be for terrible purposes. But she's accomplishing more than any fucking adult in this. Because as much as this movie is... a splash of teenage dream slash nightmare.
the other component of this is that adults are fucking useless in this movie yeah like everybody that has to deal with carrie is just like they they look at her like she's a bug under a magnifying glass like they don't like her either. Which is, you know, it's sad and it's pathetic, but, you know, that's kind of a thing with bullied kids in school sometimes. Like, you know, it's like, why don't you learn to stand up for yourself?
like that and it's like hey why don't you get these people off my fucking back you know why don't you fucking do something like principal morton is like a a villain in the sense that he is gliding through life he doesn't even remember this girl's fucking he's an empty suit yeah he just morton does not show up to work to make carrie white's life better at school she doesn't fucking exist to him
the book gives them a little bit more backbone and that christine's parents show up to go isn't the isn't the refusal of her prom ticket too far isn't having her perform after-school PE, too much of a punishment for what is really something that's Carrie White's problem. And he's kind of like, hey.
I am the one who tells me not to do anything, not you. That's as much backbone as he has. Right. In the movie, he's just like, I don't have time for this bullshit. And it's like, but you know, honestly, that's. You know, the 70s and 80s public school system was not good.
and you know like i can't say it's much better now i mean unfortunately we hear tragedies all the time about you know children who you know are are bullied and they ultimately end up committing suicide and the school invariably ever do is you know you circle their wagon and say oh well uh we never saw any bullying going on here and it's like and then you know invariably someone always pops up and says yeah it actually turns out the parents complained the school like so
17 times and nothing happened. And because, you know, schools, they're afraid of lawsuits. They're, they're, you know, afraid of losing some sort of funding for something. And, you know, especially when, unfortunately.
the child involved is is you know is an lgbtq person or or you know a minority then they're even less likely you think they'd be more likely to to step in and assist in bullying but because everybody is so afraid of crossing the wrong person that you know they are they are you know very happy to to you know let these sad little sheep be sacrificed they do not want the boat to rock
And the easy way to do that is to shove someone into the sharks. Yeah, it's to pretend that we don't see any of this. What are you talking about? Yeah, right. We can't be watching over every child every day. That's not our job. And, you know, Miss Collins, Miss Dijardine wants change. And.
Again, it's a little more clear in the book than the movie, but that she is on Carrie's side. Yeah. But, I mean, I understand that, you know, again, you know, what isn't epistolary is more... you know more internal in the book and that's that's that's hard to to come across in uh in in a movie like even you even spend some time with with with chris where you know as you know you know inside her head whereas
you know you know in the movie she's just kind of a you know straight up just a straight up not only say one note because nancy allen does a great job with her but you know she is like the nemesis yes And, you know, if people begin to respect Carrie in any way, shape or form, it really starts to invalidate the kingdom that she's built, which is already starting to crumble. And I think that that is.
At some of the part of this is like, hey, we've been making Carrie White's life hell for a really long time. Why should it matter now is is her argument. And. It's weirdly a resonating argument. They're allowed to make Carrie White's life a living hell because Carrie White's parent would love for Carrie to be in hell. It's just...
That is the best place for Carrie, really. She shouldn't exist in the first place. All right, we can't get to Margaret quite yet. That's a whole other fucking conversation. But Colin's in the movie, at the very least. catches wind of the, you know, project get carry to prom and is immediately suspect because she knows enough about Sue to go. All right.
Like you've never been one to rock the boat while all of a sudden are you become, are you sacrificing your prom for Carrie fucking white? That seems to me like you're, you're doing something. This is a part of a grand revenge. I know that you, you may not be Chris's number two, but you followed under her sway long enough. And Sue was like, I just want to be nice.
you know outwardly right but collins smells that something is up she's just aimed at the wrong couple in high school right exactly and plus collins knows that that you know, she can only go so far here. Like when she gets to slapping students. She has paddled as far up river as she possibly can because she knows Morton isn't going to have her fucking back. Who's she going to rely on?
Sydney Lassick? Sydney fucking Lassick is going to have you back? No fucking way. Like, she is as far out as she can possibly get. Right. And she's like, you know what? I'll show up to prom. I'll be in that room. I'll keep an eye on things. I'll try to keep an eye on things. This is as much as I can possibly do. This is the amount of rope I've been given. And anymore, I'm going to end up hanging myself. And that is another part of this movie, which is.
Men are hell. Men do not help in this movie. Yeah, I mean, Tommy tries, and Tommy pays for it with his life. Yes. He... And yeah, he's just fucking unconscious. Do you? Cause I think in the, uh, in the, um, in the book, like the, the, the getting, you know, cracked in the head with the, the bucket killed him. Uh, cause I think in the, in the book it explicitly says like, he starts bleeding all over the place at all. Like, like.
So I think dude went down with a skull fracture. It's a one-two punch. It's bucket to the floor. And between the two things, like... If he were to walk out of it, he'd be walking out with a serious concussion, if not head fracture, because he doesn't put his hands out in front of him when he goes to the ground. And the only person who really could have done anything about it.
is in such abject shock that she's covered in pig's blood that there's certainly nothing she can do about it. She clicks off. So what are you going to do? Right.
um so before we get to margaret do uh can we you know i have a question for you about the the prom scene itself yeah i have seen people debate this question and i want to see if we're minds over it yeah when she when everybody starts laughing after after she has the pig's blood on her do you think that that's actually happening or is she imagining it i think
It starts with the actual people who are in on the joke and they're trying to get the rest of the horrified crowd because there's nothing about this. That's genuinely funny. Right. Like, I think that I'm inclined to agree with you that I think maybe a couple of people started laughing, but everybody else. But Carrie, it just kind of echoes. And that's all she hears.
by margaret that this is what's going like they're all they're all gonna laugh at you and then when i imagine what your mind would do if your mom said if you go to this one place if x happens that equals y and then you And that fucking equals Y. Your brain would crack in half. Because it's worth noting that when Norma, who was PJ Souls' character, starts laughing and pointing, the two people who were standing next to her could not look any more disgusted. Yes.
like what are you even doing you know why are you laughing at this you know and that's the start of the palmas in the sequence and we haven't really talked that much about the palma which is kind of crazy And listen, we're not the only ones who are going to go. You should really watch the prom sequence. This is kind of Bravara, but.
He's trying to put you mentally in Carrie's place. There's this whole buildup where she's dancing with Tommy and the camera starts to spin around them. And she's like luminous. Right. And it starts off like, oh. They're in heaven. And then she starts to ask Tommy questions like, why am I here? Why did you bring me here? And Tommy's just like.
because i asked you like he's a dim bulb no it's because you liked my poem yeah uh but the camera what you don't really notice until like the second or third time you watch is the camera starts to speed up As she asks the question. Right. She's getting, she's starting to get like, she's starting to get uneasy. Right. What, what starts as this is a dazzling experience becomes, Oh my God, I'm being sucked into a vortex.
And then the result of that is that she's invited on stage in front of all these people who have either actively bullied her or stood by and done nothing. And they're all saying, here you are, our glorious prom queen. And then they dump a fucking bucket of blood on her. And the actual lens of it starts to spiral. Things start to crack in half. That horrifying couple is just like, oh, my God, this is terrible. But then after that, when she starts to look around, the part of her brain.
that has just been hardwired by her mother starts to take over. And then what is a few is all of them. As many times as I've watched it, I don't think all of them are laughing. I think her brain just can't handle it. Like, it is cracked in half. And they all got to die. They all gots to die. I mean, when I tell you that they're all going to laugh at you is like the voice of anxiety in my head. Like I actually wrote that down in something like that is so perfectly encapsulated.
As, you know, the voice that I hear before I think about doing anything in front of an audience or, I don't know, going to a party or anything like that. That is that. Yeah. Yes. As much as. You can go to many different places, and I would actively suggest people listen to the Faculty of Horror episode on Carrie and men's season generally. Yes, Carrie is a body horror. But in my mind, this is more a, at least, well, no, no, no. It is all of these things. But what it illustrates so well.
is how you can psychologically terrorize somebody into the craziest possible response to stimuli. While human beings in our real world are not able to telekinetically murderize an entire classroom of people, they have found ways to murderize an entire group of classrooms in a school. We've all lived through that now. Right. And that is another component of this movie. I don't think it's talked about as much as the very vital, very real Bonnie horror of.
what happens to somebody when society says, oh, you're a woman now. I'm going to shove all these terrible things onto you because as a result, we're sort of... underselling that component of it because we haven't talked about it yet and we might not get to it at all because we could talk about this movie for 14 hours right um so i just want to get that out there
But De Palma does a great job of infusing the entire movie with exhilarating feelings and amplified emotions because at the center of it, this. There is a very much a mental game going on here, which gets to religion is one hell of a drug, Gina. It really is. Holy shit. It's time to talk Margaret White.
It's we're nearly an hour into this and people thought, Oh, there's no way they're not going to talk. Well, of course we're going to talk about fucking marker and white. Um, this is the performance of a fucking lifetime. I. Don't know how Piper Laurie lost the Oscar for this particular role, because I would say this is the type of thing that absolutely.
cements her in the can this is the role of a lifetime and there have been plenty of great actresses who've attempted to play margaret white including including academy award winner julianne moore Right. Like you read that on paper and you're going, oh, my God, they they went to a qualified person. Here is someone who can try to live up to Piper Laurie and.
I will grant her that she is trying really fucking hard, but that movie is not, I don't know why it can't, honestly. It's not because people aren't talented. Maybe people are too familiar. Maybe it's studio interference. I mean, maybe it's casting a very attractive young actress to play Carrie. Not that Sissy Spacek is unattractive. She's not, but she has this sort of look.
That, you know, she's just someone who's just been very beaten down. Whereas I don't believe that Chloe Moretz has ever felt, you know, insecure about anything a single day in her life. Right. I mean, it's that, you know, like that Hollywood stereotype of, wait, wait, who are the bullies and who's the underdog here? Right.
Yes. And I think that movie suffers. Listen, I haven't watched it since it came out. So I'm not going to talk ill of it without. Like, I think I think certain aspects that different movies, different versions of it do well. Like, I think.
angela bettis did a pretty good carry for the same reason she's very pretty but like like as in like as in may there's something very haunted and fragile about her where she has that space egg wounded bird aspect to her you can you can see where where she might be a fairly convincing like like you know you school victim uh just like
It's just a yeoman's task. I mean, of course, the core issue with casting Carrie, and again, I could talk about this for an hour, so I'm just going to say it very briefly, is in the book, she's fat. Like, she is, you know... Not like 400 pounds, but it's mentioned several times that she's overweight. She's not fitting into the conventional.
Right, she is, I believe she is described as both being fat and having bad skin, which, you know, neither of which is an issue for Sissy Spacek or for anyone who's played Carrie subsequently.
Yes, that's not really a problem they have. Which is why, to a certain degree, the physical elements of the body horror, to me... somewhat gets taped down by the traumatic mental horror of the film but again i'm coming at it from very much a male point of view but also what i appreciate with stephen king is you know when she you know is
done up for prom like it turns out that she's actually has a skill for doing makeup and hair where it's just it's just something she's been doing in private because her mother apps which will get which will get back to it in a second will absolutely not have it but yeah she can tailor clothes but she's not been allowed to tailor anything that would actually emphasize any of the good parts so she is not she is not
attractive in spite of being fat she's attractive because she is dressed in a flattering gown and has done her hair and makeup So it's a transformation of how they view her. Right. Suddenly she walks in on the arm of the hottest guy in school and she is done up and she just it is a transformation. so unexpected that a great deal of the class is just bewitched by the story of what's happening in front of them, even though they don't know the entirety of the story. Right.
Whereas Margaret White, while I have said that adults don't do shit in this movie, I would hesitate to add I don't consider Margaret White to be a real adult. She is a banshee. Yeah. There are only two elements that denote her actual adult status. She has a child and she's of a certain age. Otherwise, she basically just flits through fucking life.
loudly judging others and commanding that they follow her very narrow definition of what a christian lifestyle is she is in her own way as big a bully if not bigger than chris hardigan It's just that the space in which she can be a bully is limited to her own household. She can proselytize around the neighborhood, but she's basically laughed off.
And that shit then rolls downhill to her own daughter, whom she does not care for, has tried to kill two times previously. Right. All because, you know, she blames her. She considers her, you know, the seed of, you know, the horrible night when she had sex with her husband. Margaret views Carrie as the product, the very... product of sin and therefore a sin that must be purged. She has not allowed grace. She has not allowed the ability to change. Her life should be hell because Carrie...
in her mind, should be in hell. And at the end of the movie, what are the rest of the townspeople write in Sue Snell's dream about Carrie? She's in hell. It just, oh my God, it's like people really put a lot of thought into this movie. Yeah, and I do love that when she wants to punish Carrie, she makes her go into the prayer closet. We're in the movie. I don't know what thrift shop they found. Jesus portrait in, but he just looks exasperated or anything else. He's got his eyes rolled back.
it is it is insane like he's like he's got a lot of margaret shit at this point Of course, the production design of this movie was done by Jack Fisk, who just so happened to be Carrie's, or I'm sorry, sissy SpaceX husband. They are still married to this very day. Jack Fisk was. Just nominated for an Academy Award. He is a fucking legend. And yes, he did go around to the craziest thrift shops to find the wildest shit to put in this perk.
closet and again this this religious freak mother character again is something that that that stephen king would return to again and again and again i i can't help but think about um the short story from Needful Things about the Needful Things of the Tommyknockers. The woman that has the 3D portrait of Jesus and it tells her how to kill her husband.
Do you remember this? It could be either of them. I want to say Tommyknockers, but it absolutely sounds like painful things too. I think it's actually the Tommyknockers because it's the, you know, whatever the weird shit that the aliens are making, you know, doing to people.
brains that make her think yes that this this 3d portrait of a lenticular portrait of jesus is is telling her how to wire her television yes that's right yeah yeah yeah it's got to be taught in her yeah oh my that's the thing i like about
tommy knocker's like you can hate on that book it's not his best but there's so much of the thing that i like about him which is this town's going to hell that i just love i just love right so yeah there's there's so many scenes You could trace so many lines from this book into his other stories. Yes. Well, you know, Christian nationalism is the gift that keeps on giving. And when I say giving, I mean putting us all in Carrie White's hell.
Margaret employs like every tactic she knows to control and manipulate Carrie within the fiefdom of their house. You have isolation, outright violence, guilt. Belittlement, gaslighting. Like, Margaret knows best because God told her personally is her point of view. Right. And in doing that, she gives Carrie no safe space. You know, when a child is being bullied at school, you know.
Hopefully they are fortunate enough to have a home that they can look at as a refuge from the treatment they receive in school. Whereas Carrie has no such refuge. She goes home. She goes to school. She gets shit on. She goes home. She gets shit on some more. In both cases, for the crime of existing. Yes. Yes. It's very much the crime of existing.
is sin she is the embodiment of it in margaret's eyes and everyone else views her as the product of some sort of terrible thing they don't want to see in themselves and so shit slides downhill now i'm gonna steal From another cinematic master, in my opinion, Mr. Jordan Peele. Once again, I'm going to propose that Carrie is a bad miracle. Yeah.
I could definitely see that. Like, in the sense that she, you know, has this, you know, incredible power, but can only use it to do harm. Right. Yes. And she hasn't invoked it. She didn't work towards this goal. She doesn't want any of this. She doesn't want any of this. It is just something that she happens to be. How she's managed to stay alive under Margaret's roof is rather incredible. Because Margaret constantly tells her that...
Carrie is my cross to bear. Her penance for the sins of the flesh she indulged in when her husband came home one night and they finally had sex. And holy shit. Margaret actually enjoyed it. And then Carrie shows up nine months later. It just is. I feel like. This is the, in my mind, kind of a bad miracle prime is Carrie White. It's just kind of primal what this story represents, even though it's so fantastical.
It's not scary in a boogie. It's more of a tragedy. Yeah. You certainly don't want it to happen. And it, but also. So much of the movie is a buildup for this inevitable thing to happen. You're shown it on the poster. She's in covered in blood and the gym, the senior prom is on fire. You know that going in. Everything else is prelude. And it's quite a prelude. Right. I will say again, comparing book to movie, I much prefer how Carrie ends her mother's life in the book.
She basically just kind of slows her heart down, which is very unsettling because Carrie is also, Carrie's aware she herself is dying. she she's you know been injured you know she's she herself has been injured in this fire uh she's almost gotten run over she got shot at one point in the book So she knows she's dying, but she's going to take her mom with her.
So because, you know, she's going to hell. Mom's coming with her. Well, mom paved the road. You might as well have her. In the book, in the movie, you know, she, you know, you know, Margaret has to be given a much more. spectacular death and that's when you get her basically being like crucified with a potato peeler which sounds stupid but looks great in the movie looks great because
She's invoking that Jesus pose. And of course, Margaret practically has an orgasm while being stabbed multiple times because. Honestly, nothing in Margaret has been penetrated in quite some time. And I think she thinks she's going to go directly to heaven, which got a big surprise for you, Aiton, Margaret. It's an ecstatic feeling. Finally, the thing that she's believed, this magical intoxicating feeling she's believed this entire time, that Carrie will be the death of her, has come true.
She's right. She's right. And it gets proven every time she gets stabbed with another twirling weapon. Right. It just. You know, Carrie, I just, Margaret believes that Carrie like won't grow up. And she believes this. to the point where she doesn't inform her about real life, because real life doesn't matter to Margaret. This is all the road to be paved to her heavenly reward.
Right. Don't tell your daughter what a period is. Yeah, no, no. Just shove her in the Jesus closet. If you can just humiliate Carrie enough by dousing her with hot coffee at the kitchen table. Um, if you can push her down the stairs enough, she probably will not gain a working uterus. Probably. Right. Right. Stop her periods. And so. as the primordial sort of king novel, there's this unintentional content. You will see the contents come into better focus in later books.
But that content is that small group of people who either through active, you know, choices or inactive choices conspire for the big thing at the end of this book to happen. So Sue and Tommy and Chris and Billy Nolan get her to a place where she cracks in half. And the actual demon that her mom has talked about this entire time, actually.
comes loose they summon the demon and regardless of their intentions she is just a time bomb that margaret has been pushing towards exploding and constantly shortening the fuse of And then one bucket of pig's blood. And you got a bloodbath on your hands. Yeah, I mean, this is the best thing that's ever happened to Margaret. It really is. I hate to say it. This is what Margaret has wanted. You know.
This solidifies every crazy idea she's ever had. That, you know, Carrie is going to end up in the grasp of the devil. And because she can manipulate shit with her mind. And push me on the bed. Oh, shit. This is kind of what I wanted. Right. This is kind of what I wanted. Right. So, yeah. I just. For a writer who has found a lot of different ways to create true monsters, I think Margaret might be one of King's best. Yeah, she's very effective because she's believable.
Perhaps never more than right now in these current times that we're living in. Yeah. It's just an incredibly potent. and miraculous piece of film work here. This, well, De Palma has many cult films before this, and he's obviously... built a resume he's never had the financial success of anything that he's done we the listeners of the show on the main feed will have listened to us talking about fandom of the paradise so i won't regurgitate that but
That is one of those ultimate cult objects that's, like, loved by one town in Canada, you know? And everywhere else, it's... Its reputation grows when people catch up to it. Whereas Carrie is absolutely a smash to the point it's nominated for Oscars that people like myself are still disappointed it did not win.
Yeah, it's one of the very few times that a horror movie has even been acknowledged by the Academy. Yeah. Well, it came out in that sort of brief period where... when a studio horror movie was released, it did have an air of, Oh, and this is, um,
This means something. Right. Like it came out a few years after the exorcist. And so, yeah, it was kind of, it was kind of riding on that because the exorcist was the same way. I think that got nominated for multiple Oscars, including best picture. Right. which many to this day think did not win because one important academy member camp actively campaigned against it it is something that should not have been allowed to happen under oscar rules and yet
He actively campaigned against it on religious fervor, and it kind of tampered its response at the box office. Not at the box office, but in Oscar voters. Yeah. Again, this is a movie I could talk about for 14 hours. Yeah, it's definitely, you know, that and The Exorcist and Halloween, it does definitely give weight to the suggestion that the 70s might actually be the best era for horror.
I think the 70s is what gives birth to what people love about the 80s. I don't think they give enough credit to it. I think it starts with, you know, you have Night of the Living Dead. and rosemary's baby and they're coming at it from two different angles rosemary's baby is what ends up being the the studio driven horror projects that have gloss to them that are your exorcists
that are your omens, that are Carrie, that are alien. And then night is what gives birth to the Indies. And Indies are what give us... you know, Texas Chainsaw Massacre. And Martin and Halloween. Yes. And it all leads up to, in some ways, Friday the 13th. Because that's the best of both worlds. It's an independent production that's bought by a studio and released by Paramount Pictures with the Mountain logo. And all of a sudden, this is what horror is. It's...
An axe to your face. And I love it. But everything that comes after that is kind of a little bit. The direct result of those two worlds meeting. Right, but a lot of the humanity was stripped away from it. Yeah. To a degree. And the formula starts, everyone thinks I can do this. I don't think a lot of people look at De Palma's carry and think, you know what? I can make me one of those. That's not true.
It's not true of Friday the 13th either, but it gained a lot of people license to try, and I enjoy many of the lesser results that happened out of it. I enjoy their charm. I enjoy the characters. It's the reason why we have the fucking show, after all. But... Yes. I feel like the 70s is undercut because the volume is not as high, whereas the mania takes over after Friday the 13th. And one of those...
just falls onto a movie screen every other weekend to the point where movie reviewers are like, I'm not even fucking covering these things anymore. Right. And. there are good things that result of that. Like we would not have had these somewhat lesser efforts that are so enjoyable if people didn't feel they couldn't give it a shot. But that being said,
there there's a reason that Carrie is Carrie. And some of the other movies we've covered are, you know, hell night, which I enjoy, but, uh, they're not really in the same league. you know 70s horror again you spend so much time with the characters, you know, and you've got, you know, what now is called a slow burn, which, you know, I think that's, and I, I'm guilty of it myself, a phrase that people.
don't always use correctly it often immediately comes off as a negative you know people hear that they think oh this you know it takes a lot of time getting to you know getting to the action which all these movies do
you know even even halloween you know to an extent you know things don't really start cooking until about halfway through it you've got that exactly you've got that great opener and then like i don't want to say nothing happens but you spend a lot of time getting to know these characters You get to know the characters in Dreadhap. Same thing with The Exorcist. She does not actually start showing real signs of possession until about 40 minutes into the movie.
But the one thing that the exorcist kind of has going for it is that there's the horror of her mother not being like, I don't know what's wrong with my child. Please help me figure out what's going wrong with my child. Right. And everyone's kind of like. a priest maybe right and again and again like halloween you know there's like this whole very heavy sense of foreboding around everything like something terrible is about to happen you know and i feel like you know certainly
a lot of 80s horror really just kind of did away with that. They were like, what do we got?
you know we got to get right to those first kills you know i mean we we don't we don't spend time establishing who these characters are we don't spend time on building atmosphere just got to get right to what everybody's here to see and i don't know i i really you enjoyed of the more character driven ones yes i i do too but again going back to our charter statement of of talking about horror movie characters
I think we've found over the course of these nigh, by the time this comes out, we will be approaching our eighth anniversary. Jesus fucking Christ. It's great. I'm so proud of us. We started from nothing, and look at us now. But over the course of this, the goal has been to reclaim... These brief characters, the characters that are the chaff before the wheat, as it were, what gets mowed down before the final girl. And sort of a reclamation project of they...
Listen, they might not shine as bright, but people try. What do they try to do? Like if some of you have listened by now to our commentary on Patreon, a prom night. and how we just absolutely gush over the character of slick who is at best a a tertiary character like he he like just shows up
you out of nowhere to ask this one character to the prom. I don't even think they would make it to the prom. I think they just like, like, you know, go there. Maybe she pops in for a minute and go to go have sex in his boogey van. And then he's killed. He just makes such a huge impression that it's like, oh man, this fucking guy. You can make an effort with the right actor and a screenwriter with maybe a slight sense of humor.
You can make these characters, you know, you pop a bit, but so many, so many, you know, you 80 slashers just chose not to do that. Well, or the people weren't up to the task and they just let. Actors down or the actor lets the audience down or the screenwriter gave no effort and no one thought it was important. I think trying to pinpoint where people elevate. Within movies that aren't exactly what I would call the pinnacle of cinema.
is a worthy project for us over this many, many years. I think the show has morphed in one way or another into a more streamlined task. That being said. not as many movies present as many characters to you that die in the specific way that happens the friday the 13th movie like we we tried everybody but not every film can really
invites that level of examination. But I think it is a worthy project because at the end of the day, all of these people who are in all of the movies that we've ever covered and will ever cover. will have wanted to present a character that lives and shines as brightly as... What Amy Irving does here as what Nancy Allen does here as what Sissy Spacek does here. John Travolta is terrifying in this fucking movie. He is. And he really like, like he definitely.
Uh, cause this was mostly he, at this point he was mostly known for being a welcome back Cotter at this point. Uh, this was like his, this was again, his biggest role so far. I think he'd been in, um, the devil's reign, which he.
barely shows up in that except at the end like this was like this was like his big breakout i'm gonna become a movie actor and yeah he takes that like kind of slightly smarmy charm he has and like his like angelic good looks and he was young and like is this an absolute fucking monster the only you know the only bigger monster than billy in the movie is billy in the book yes
He's proto King Bully. Yeah. He's got a little touch of Buddy Rupperton where like, you know, he's just like this big, this big galoot. You know, whereas the I don't know you would consider John Travolta to be a galoot, but but, you know, he's got that air about him. I also want to point out, and I said making myself sad in the process that among the the. Chris's little click is one Edie McClurg.
Yeah, she's Helen. I just looked up Edie McClure on Wikipedia. It made me very sad as to what's going on with her. I'm not going to explain, but I will say, you know, if you want to feel bad about things, read her Wikipedia page and her personal section. not that she turned out to be like a trumper don't you know nothing with her specifically but like okay like something that happened to her so oh
Well, damn, that sucks because Aidy McFlurry fucking rules. Oh yeah, she's like a staple of movies for literally our entire lives. Yeah. And she just cements this movie in the 70s.
because of those glasses and her hair she's not a very she was 30 here and just and looks about 30 but but again you know i mean like like nancy allen isn't exactly a convincing 17 year old either no no well again we're not coming to carry for reality we're we're coming to see a telekinetic girl go haywire and and set an entire school ablaze right and feel somewhat justified in that um
And I think people shine in this movie because they're given the runway to shine in roles big and small. They just, they leap off the screen because... because the Palma wants them to have a moment to display what their character is. And you have to set some time to do that. There are anonymous players in this movie. A lot of... Tommy's friends don't make a lot of impact in this, but I do believe that De Palma is going into this.
to make this feel like an inevitable tragedy. We're going to get to know a lot of the people who are going to die. And most of this isn't a direct result of their behavior. they're just they're um what's the word not passers-by um you know like when you're like in like a you're just there unfortunately you're wrong place the wrong time exactly Um, I, again, I could talk about Carrie all the live long day, but before we go, we have to choose our own death venture. And that's where we decide.
Of the many, many, many deaths in this film. If you were to die in one of those ways, which one would you choose and why? Of course, you can be crushed. You can be electrocuted. You can be cleavered in half by a basketball. Backboard. Immolated in a gym. Exploded in a car. Stabbed many times during which you reach orgasm by religious mania.
Or you just pull the whole fucking house down on top of yourself. Yeah, while already basically bleeding to death and probably in shock. Yeah, you've already been stabbed in the back. You fell down the stairs. Like, a lot of bad shit's happened to you. I don't like any of those, honestly. There's no fun. I know I don't want to burn death.
Even though I obviously don't want to be these characters, I guess, you know, being in a car flips a bunch of times and explodes. At least that's probably quick. Yes. Although, honestly, you know what? tommy goes down pretty quick uh yeah you know he's oh yeah he he's just like i mean he he may have ultimately you know died from in the fire but i don't think he you know i don't think he was uh aware he wasn't awake yeah so i you know i'm gonna take i'm gonna take tommy's way out
Tommy was generally a pretty good guy. In a movie where there weren't a lot of good people, I think he was pretty okay. Yeah. So yeah, I'm going to take, I'm going to take you, you, you, the bucket kicking in Soviet Russia, the bucket kicks me. I'm down for that as well. Gina, where can people find you on these here internets? I write about television and movies at the spool.net. I also write about movies and other pop culture related stuff at Gina watches.
things.substack.com i am on most social medias under gina does things Do it today, people. Check it out. Find us on Patreon where we've got lots of bonus opportunities for you to listen to more Kill by Kill than ever before. We've got chat by chat. We've got bonus episodes and movie commentaries. I think you should check it out. Find us on your socials. Write and review us on iTunes or your podcatcher of choice. It helps us be seen and heard by more people. Look up our t-shirt.
shop on TeePublic. It's good stuff. That just about does it, but don't worry. DePaul May continues next week with even more telekinetic fun. Don't worry, folks. The body count will continue for myself and for Gina. Bye-bye, everybody. Bye.