#240 Louis Armstrong & Tom Spark - How to Build 1000 True Fans

So tom said it to me because our clients are generally quite old , they're guys that are like much more playing , like a longer term game and so on , so forth . Like a lot of our clients , when they join they'll say , okay , we're not looking to change vendor because we're like a vendor with them . Yeah , like we're happy to .

You know , if you don't blow things up , we'll be back next year , next year , next year . But isn't it good at reflections ? You compare that to , let's say , tate . His audience is a reflection of him , which can be conjured as well you can build that .

Like you always say no hacks , Forget the hacks , Focus on the principles and people . There's so many people online who want the like zero to 10K a month . Follow the simple formula run ads and then you know what . What you've done there is . You've your marketing message of like the infinite game . That's what I called our podcast .

We did together as well , darren lee the infinite game . I think that comes across in your messaging really well you want to hear something cool .

He faces YouTube channels and he knew all of those triggers about my content , about like playing an infinite game , thinking for a long-term horizon . It's not about like today and making the money today and he was building out those processes like someone who's 19 , 20 , 21 . And now , with 22 , he had like a massive content business and everything .

And now I realize that it does have an impact and people listen to what I'm saying and sometimes take my advice . So I have to be a little bit more careful with what comes out of my mouth .

But that's why I always tell people that it's always just my opinion and from my own experience , and I don't tell people to do exactly what I do or I did this and you should do it too . I say I did this and this is what I learned and this is what I experienced .

And if you want to follow a similar path or go down a similar route , then you could also take note of what I'm saying and try and go and pursue it in your own fashion , I guess is there anything you would go back on on something that you said just in general ?

It was me and mike just being boisterous and being friendly and , yeah , being funny , and our humor is very dry and very sarcastic and like , again , I have a latina girlfriend and I also think , like a lot of people in europe don't get english sarcasm , like they just don't understand .

Like I'll be joking with everyone , like the barista at starbucks if we're gonna play golf , I'll joke with like the pro in the golf club , and like I'll be joking with everyone at every point , just because I like to see how they react to it . But mike's videographer videoed this for basically a week and then posted the vlog .

But people , everyone hated me and Mike so much , but they don't understand that that was just , that's just our humor . Like we were saying things that we knew would trigger people . But we even said in the video oh , let's try and trigger as many people as we can in this video and I don't know .

I think , think , I think you just have to take some things with a pinch of salt and have to realize like , not everything that comes out of my mouth , I'm being fully serious . That's why , when we have these nice conversations , I always tell people to like I don't want to come across super serious because the majority of the time I'm not being fully serious .

I think you should have fun with whatever you're doing and enjoy and actually enjoy it dude .

But how do you balance that , like entertainment and education , to get people to take you seriously but not take yourself too seriously ? I think you have to get people to take you seriously , but not take yourself too seriously .

That's the main thing , is I ? One thing that's been a bit overwhelming is that I give everyone my personal WhatsApp , so everyone directly contacts me , and I tell everyone a million times please write in the group , because I can't , like I will always reply to someone , like it might take a week , but I'll always get back to someone .

I can't leave people unread because it just hurts my heart . So I'm emotionally invested in everyone , which , again , this is something that I want to talk about .

I want to basically understand now how I can keep track of everyone and I want everyone to get results and I want everyone to do well and I want everyone to feel like I care about them , because I genuinely do , but I just need to make sure that they get in the attention that they deserve , which is now very difficult with 120 people , but I'm kind of trying

to figure all this out .

So if you were doing a done for you offer , so let's say , say , for instance , let's say , if you're helping people build a videography business , a freelance business , whatever , you're holding their hand and you're like this is your vsl , this is your landing page , this is how you get clients , they would pay you more .

Okay , I know that's not what you want to do , but that's when you'd have less clients and then higher prices . But what you're doing you need to have like a hybrid offer , which I learned from james kemp . I'll always specify whenever I learn something from someone . So you have that community which runs async .

You could almost have an offer where people just join your community because we're building what we've built the community .

So in theory , someone could pay , let's say , a hundred dollars a month and they just get access to the community , but at the same time , you get access to the community and a private group within the community for $300 or $400 a month and in that is like six people .

And then you could have another tier which is one-to-one access to you , not like super one-to-one calls , but just a bit more access and that could be like a thousand dollars a month . Now it's like choose your own adventure . People will pick where they want to be in there .

They'll ascend and descent , but the way you control the flow is by telling people that , look , this isn't a hostage situation . You can leave whenever you want , but if you leave , you can't come back for a year and the reason why you do that is because it makes it much more of like a club .

When you sign up to the country club , you sign up to it , but when you leave you can't come back for a while .

And the reason why we have this is because then you give people better levels of attention in the group , because you say I can't message 120 people in whatsapp , but what I can do within the inner circle is give you much more personalized review yeah but in the beginning it's really good to prove that you have a business , which is what you do .

You have people that get results . Fuck with you . The brand's good , the product's good , and now it's time to stretch the gap between each of them because literally one of the guys in our program he's creating something very similar to you and the gap isn't big enough between the jumps .

So why would you pay a thousand dollars a month when I can get access to you on whatsapp for a hundred dollars a month ? It's true . So there needs to be that gap and dude like that's just .

so many messages recently from other influencers being like , oh congrats , senior , killing it with the community , and like they think that I've just done that in three months . But what they don't realize is that I already had the Create Club for two years before that and before that , I actually just found out on Facebook .

I logged in the other day and I had two communities on Facebook a run community and also a content creation community which had 1.5K members , and I set those up during coronavirus so everyone could kind of talk and chat when everyone was feeling quite lonely .

And again , this is something that I've been doing since I first downloaded Instagram is speaking to strangers on Instagram who are interested in photography , videography , fitness , running , whoever .

A lot of my very close friends and best friends have been people who I was talking to on Instagram who I've never met in real life , but I just had some something in common .

I just needed to talk to people who wanted to go down the same route as what I did , which is photography , videography , content creation , because none of my close friends from my hometown had any interest in what I , what I was interested in .

But now it's like you just need to almost like focus on like the economics a small bit , but you're getting these such good results , whereas most entrepreneurs get in the space to make 10k online and they don't give a fuck about their customers . And that's why there's a bad attitude towards community courses , coaching .

There's a bad attitude towards any business model , yeah , but you were much more empathetic , which you , you know you have that , and now it's about adding in that layers of access . So my question for you on that is how did you build such an engaged community of guys , that vibe and with each

other ?

Like that's one thing that I think that I'm actually really good at . Even on my birthday , to be fair , I brought all my friends from all over the world together and everyone connected and now I can see them all going on little side quests to meet each other because they met at my birthday .

And I feel like that's one thing that I'm always been good at doing is bringing the right people and putting them together in the same room or at the same dinner table . And now , with the creator club , I feel like this is my kind of way to monetize it . But again , like I said , I'm not super money driven .

I just feel like I like people , I like helping people and I also like being in groups of people , like Tom was this morning . We had a little run club . I literally posted about it yesterday .

We had 10 people and I was telling Tom this morning like I literally get energy from everyone being together and everyone , like we ran the 5k and it just didn't feel like we'd been for a run Cause everyone's just chatting the whole time . So again , this , like another thing which is just crazy is Joel's helped me with this .

Joel's doing like the backend , so the website just making sure everything's running smoothly . And I can tell Joel like bro , I can literally just go on my Instagram DMs and like I've never made money like this before ever in my life . Just to be clear , I used to get brand new sponsorships , which was still good money , but nothing like this .

And I can say to Joel like , literally in , give me two or three hours and I can make a grand like or a grand and a half just from talking to my followers in my dms . They're all warm leads and I don't know anything about sales .

I just know how to talk to people and help people , basically with the same struggles that I had when I was in their position or when I was their age . And literally , like I have a genuine conversation . I don't let anyone go in my DMs , I don't have any appointment setters , I just have a general , typical conversation .

I ask them a few questions and within literally 10 or 15 minutes they join the Creator Club and again people have to join for a minimum of three months Because I don't want someone to come in Every Zoom call that we do . The educational zoom calls are recorded each week .

I don't want someone to come in for a month , pay the minimum price a hundred quid take all of the information , see everything , see what I'm doing , and then go and like even if someone does try and copy it , I'm pretty confident they're not going to be able to create what I've copied .

Yeah , so I'm not really worried about people trying to steal this stuff , but I don't want someone to come in , add them to the WhatsApp group . Everyone says hello , welcome to the team . Everyone follows this person . They start engaging on their content and , like we , we get everyone .

Everyone is so like involved in each other's story content , like everyone's aware of what everyone else is doing . So I don't want someone to come in , join , suck out , suck everyone's energy and then leave . So it's three months minimum and now , two weeks ago , we've hit that three month and we've lost one person .

Everyone else has continued their memberships and it's .

Like , how would you improve something like that and get people to become like within the thousand true fans ? And that's where I want to take this conversation is like how to build that loyal cult following that will not just buy from you but on repeat , come back , and that's what you've a lot of experience with .

Alex mosey's kind of made it popular . Um , and there's a great book called like givers versus takers versus matches . Uh , come on with the books called .

But yeah , what you're doing in your DM appointment setting , what you're doing is you're you leveraging the law of reciprocity that you're coaching people for for free , and that's actually like the best sales process . The way I view sales is like , okay , let's start coaching and you're helping them .

It's like I'm going to help you to see if this is going to work for you , to see if we can solve your problem , and you kind of coach them through any limiting beliefs and you kind of view sales in that way , which is what you're doing .

I know when someone , literally within the first couple of questions , is going to be a good person to join , or or whether they're going to join and just not be active , not show up to the calls , not right in the group , and in which case they're a wasted member , they're going to waste their money .

Maybe once they've joined for three months , they're going to maybe then resent me that they paid me 300 quid or whatever for three months and they it's all down to them , they have to just show up . But if I know that , oh well , I'm going on holiday next week and then I'm getting my teeth done , like in two weeks .

So like we're not for people that are into the hacks , the tricks going super viral . Like we're not for that we're for people who are building creator businesses , entrepreneur businesses , on the back of podcasts . And by having that as like a North Star virtue means , when people come in , you can service them differently . They can go into the coaching program .

They could just we could help them do the whole thing , but they pick their own adventure adventure based on that criteria . But there's another way to slice and dice that , which is like , if you want people to to service more people , you could , you could raise your prices . So let's say 400 for let's take your program out of it .

The way ours is structured now is that it's 4k for a year access , but we can sell just the education content for I think it's like 1500 . So people can come in , have that lower ticket approach , low ticket , whatever , relative , and then they can ascend through it .

So I'm really , really like focused on like an ascension model and it's not like sleazy pushing people through a funnel . You're actually pulling people because they come in , they inquire about you . Yeah , interested , this mightested , this might be cool , this might be a good fit for you .

They might not respond and then eventually , when they get paid and when they're not on vacation , they'll purchase . So are you familiar with Colin Yerkeson ? A really big guy on Instagram .

He's done like 12 million in sales from his Instagram story and he explained this to me in a completely changed my perspective , which is most people get a lead coming in on Instagram or email or whatever . And when someone inquires , they're like hey , dude , how much is the program ? It's $300 or whatever Most people .

Then the guy will leave you on read because he's actually trying to figure shit out . But then most guys fuck it and they keep pounding him Like you're ready to join , ready to join , join , ready to join . But what got the lead to come in ? Was you just doing what you're best at , which is living good life , training ?

So when that guy comes in and he goes , you should just go back to doing what you were good at . And then you have that offer that people can come and pick their own adventure . Eventually , and with your pricing especially , you don't even need to speak to people .

Could automate that .

look at their profile and I can see is this someone who is going to be of any value or and I can tell in the conversation by the way they're speaking , like I'll often get them to send voice notes instead of writing everything out , and then I can . I can pretty much tell very fast .

And also another really interesting thing is that the majority I would say 90 of the people that have joined . If I go on the message on the dm , I can see that I've already had conversations with these people over the last five or six years dude .

That's the compound effect and that's the asymmetrical return because , like , everyone looks at things in isolation , like oh louis and fucking ibiza , he's in marbella . But it's the asymmetrical return of you doing the shitty jobs , taking videos of auto dealers and real estate bills , bills , bills , little bills .

Now you're not activating that skill of photography anymore , but that's the brand you know , and that's where brand like literally takes a lifetime to build exactly that's .

And when you're 19 , 20 , the majority of people haven't put in the work or they haven't experienced what they need to experience to get the things that they want . So I try and tell everyone everyone like this is a long game . Play the long game , yeah , and it's 100% worth . Like we're all .

We're all older and wiser , and I think we just get , we can add more value the older and wiser we become . Yeah , just just our age adds value it's also .

And then I was thinking about it and his approach was if you're someone who's constantly elevating continuously that you're just developing , whether it's through , like fitness , running , yoga , meditation you're elevating the standards for yourself that like , let's say , it is focused on photography or podcasting or whatever , that , by virtue of extension , just improves .

So the fact that you're working on your diet has that impact externally . So that's where it becomes much more holistic . And this isn't like poofy poofy , it's just like the logic of the 19 year old . Why does he ? Why does no one buy the 19 year old stuff ?

It's because he hasn't done all the other shit exactly , but he could be sick at what he's doing and he's just about to break through on that asymmetrical return . You know , and I think you're a perfect example of that , tom , because you were a teacher , you went into music industry . You understand . You understand the tension . That's what music is .

called the brand vision method . And then the third aspect or the fourth aspect sorry , outside of it is time so each of these increase over time . What you basically want to do and you spoke about attract a brand here and it's all in a game work . That's the vision aspect .

You have to have a vision for yourself and it has to be clear that you're working towards that vision for yourself and that's what creates increase and that's what creates momentum and that's what creates attraction , that's what draws people to you . If you read the book Wallace D Wattles Science of Getting Rich , that's one of the key things he says .

You have to convey a sense of increase with whatever you're doing . Does that mean your body's getting better ? Does that mean like your money's going up ? Whatever your body's getting better ? Does that mean like your money's going up ? Your whatever it is a sense of increase , and you can practice that every day . You can .

Every interaction you can have , you can go . How can I add a sense of increase ? How can I make this person's life better ? How can I kind of expand ? You can do it when you order a coffee and you practice doing that with every single interaction and that's what gives you a vision , and vision gives you a forward momentum .

Vision plus a brand , that's what creates attraction . If you have a brand , you have a vision . You now have people who are attracted to you . But the last element of that is method . So you have to have a method that is proven that it works . And when you have brand with a method , that's when you have influence .

And then when you have vision with method , that's when you have a business , because it's forward momentum , taking someone from A to B . But all of those things obviously compound over time . So that really helped me . I love a Venn diagram I know Kamala Harris said a whole meme about that , like I love Venn diagrams , man , but I do .

But that I used to do running out with all of my clients , and it's so good , because whenever you are talking about a subject and everyone should do this for their . Whatever their offer is , you should get it into your pillars and work out how they kind of interchange and have some sort of method .

But whenever you're talking about something , you're like right , guys , where does this fit into ? And people are like , right , this is in the vision . So people now know I'm right , in the center of all of the Venn diagram . Is their dream outcome Right ?

So they now know that , okay , I'm working on my vision , I'm working on some inner game stuff which is just like , maybe even just go into the gym . I know that this is actually moving me towards my dream outcome . And then , whenever you're explaining something to your members , members , they can clearly see how because , look , people buy on emotion .

Um , you need to constantly resell them and like remind them , like why they're doing this and then how a bit of advice that you've given , why does that move them towards that dream outcome ? Um , so I call it like 4d consulting . So it's like the three pillars , and then it's like all of those expand over time .

The second thing I was going to add um , and I'll tell the story of when I was in education . Um , I used to have . So , yeah , you know , be called sir , which I quite liked as well but that's gone now um no one even misses , calls you . Yeah , no , but I used to have . I went to like poundland or something .

I bought these little hats and these hats , these little caps , they like I am the best or like super cool or something just nerdy as hell . But what I used to do is I used to have those hats in the cupboard and you've got a big community . Now what you want to do is so like I'll give context If there's 30 kids in a classroom , you've got an hour .

That means you have about two minutes per kid . What effect can you have on a kid in two minutes , really ? And there's always a few who need more attention , like always . So what you want to do is you want to find the rock star clients or the rock star kids , the ones who just get it , the ones who've nailed it . Cupboard would come out .

Hey , here's a hat , and their hat was like I'm the best , like I'm the whatever . And then you put the hat on them and like right , your job , you're the only ones who allowed , allowed to move around the classroom . You're like now , whatever I used to call them , you can move around , you can help people and they love it .

So you want to leverage rockstar clients , ones who are getting the results . You want to then make them generals , make them community leaders . Maybe they get an extra one-on-one call with you .

And then the other thing with that to make that work is you have to have clear expectations and boundaries and you have to be consistent with your expectations and boundaries . So , for example , I was a super um anal teacher . I was a super like , I was yeah , that's why I had to leave um , basically .

So I I was in like because I did like media , did some music stuff . Basically all the kids had wheelie chairs in my classroom because it was like there's computer desks and by law if you're on a computer you have to meet . Media did some music stuff .

Basically , all the kids had wheelie chairs in my classroom because it was like those computer desks and by law if you're on a computer you have to meet certain standards . So if you're on a computer you have to be able to swivel and you have to be able to move your chair . So by law we have to put in swively chairs .

The problem with teenagers and swively chairs is they're like ah , fucking race cars Great , and they're kicking each other over . So Fucking race cars great , and they're kicking each other over . So what I did my first day in that classroom I got some duct tape and I like outlined all around where the chairs were and I was like I set my expectations .

When every kid walked in I was like nobody is ever allowed to move their chairs behind this line , and I was so consistent with it , like so consistent and like it was the only time I would get like pretend angry so all of the kids would stay in one place , all the other classrooms , like they're kicking all over the place .

But then when I added in that , um , rockstar element thing , then the kids were like I get to kind of break the rules , I get to move around the classroom . So it it made it worthwhile for them one , they got the hats , um , and then also like they got to move around . So with you there we've kind of moving forward .

You want to restrict access to yourself . You want to give the rockstar clients , um , more kind of influence and they are like closer to you . But when people come into your program you want to set clear expectations . I will answer questions on the weekly call .

If I'm replying to , let's say , even half of that every other day , I'm be honest with you you're not going to get good advice , and there might be someone else who has the same question exactly that's the main thing that I drill into .

So now everything , as of Monday , is going on Circle . So any questions , any wins , anything , anything is on circle and it stays there forever . And whenever someone joins , I'll send them a message saying , basically , please read this thread , this thread , this thread , so that all the most common ask questions are answered .

You don't need to ask me them time and time again . And also on circle , it tracks everything that everyone does and everyone's aware of this . But this then gamifies it so people can get rewards based on engagement , both on based on content posted , based on anything that they do within the community circle rewards them . And then we have leaderboards and everything .

So so we can keep track of what everyone's doing . I can see when people last signed in . I can see if someone hasn't signed in for a week . I see everything .

So you set the standard for who you are , your vision , what you want , but those guys are also leaders within there and I've gone really deep down that leadership role because , like it's , it's important , right , because you're leading a community of 110 people . So when you set that standard as an onboarding form , do you have course material ?

But that content means that , like you're , you're thinking through our lens . I'll give an example podcasts . You can do different things , you can do different ways . We are video first , youtube first , podcast 100 and by virtue of that , you have to think through this lens of video first , youtube first , podcast podcasting . It's just what I believe in .

And by doing the program , by going through everything , you're not only like learning what I'm thinking , but you're also going on this wavelength , so you're not asking dumb questions about shit that we don't care about .

Okay , and as time goes on , when people ask you more questions , you can create content in here on Loom with a microphone , like that's what I'm doing half the time , and you add that to the program . So our program now is way bigger than it was intentionally , because I was trying to .

Just what I basically was doing in the beginning was I get on a call with someone because there's a high ticket , I'm like what are you struggling with ? They'd say this , this , this , I'd write it down . They'd say is it in the program ? I'm like , yep , because I can create it , I can solve that for you . So people are on this journey .

Now what you've done really well , what's people like hamza have done really well , is they're putting people on a transformation , saying you're here , broke lazy fat . Over here you're gonna have an individual business . That's actually harder for us because we have some people coming in who are CEOs . Some guys are 19 years old .

They're still entrepreneurs , but it's a different transformation . So it's almost like what are the levers that you pull ? So what we're pulling is like you build a content business , generates revenue , grows your authority , builds your network without wasting time , money and energy . So you're doing something really good with that .

But what I would say just a bit of advice on that is like , when I look at your landing page , there's a lot going on the landing page is honestly trash .

And actually only one person bought Max Krosan .

It's called the creator club , but it's very kind of wide spectrum , like it's self-improvement , like there's so much more than just content , because I think to be a good content creator , you need to be like physically in check , mentally in check , like you need to everything , like everything matters .

You can't just go out and make good content like there's so many other things that you need to get right first .

But actually what I've realized is I'm just working Like I'm literally making notes every single day and I'm constantly asking all the members give me feedback , give Joel feedback . I

need to hear it .

What I need to do is just give myself a little kick up the bum , sit down with a camera in somewhere like this , show people my iPhone . This is exactly how you video and take photos on your iPhone . This is how you edit it on your iPhone . These are the settings you need to use .

You can use the one-time zoom , the two-time zoom , the five-time zoom , the 0.5 for a wide angle . You can press the little man at the top that puts it into sport mode . Yeah , and this is how this is .

These are all little basic things that I learned so long ago that I need to start kind of reteaching and actually sitting down and filming it , because I take it for granted that I know it yeah , yeah , you always say like the curse of granted knowledge , right , 100 way I like to .

So that's for me yeah , and I always think it's worth looking at that , for when you are starting an offer as a lot of your guys will be starting that offer it's like what do ? People come to me and it's just natural for me to solve that problem , like almost like , yeah , just do it like this , what do you mean ?

That's a really good place to start , um , because then that's where you like hone in your expertise and , um , yeah , and it makes like , if you're good at something , make sure you're getting paid for it .

So I think just a little bit kind of confusion there is , like you do have all the weekly calls , but , but then you also have , like , let's say , the mindset , all this stuff , but that's still a program that they walk through , whether it's async or whatnot too . But this is something that you constantly iterate and you build on .

And the reason why you're doing this is and you're just adding in new videos every two weeks . There are seven minutes , 12 minutes , but the reason why you're doing this is because that's what increases the price tag . Yeah , do you get me ? Because for us , we started low ball , we sold everything and then we built the program and then we're adding stuff in .

But I don't just add stuff in just for the sake of it , it's because the value is actually increased , as in what you get and then , effectively , what you pay for too , right , yeah .

So , and again we go back to the offers and stuff and like , hopefully this is really valuable for people because , like , this is everything right , this is everything it's like when you do have those thousand true fans , you can just service them differently , so you solve the same problem through a different mechanism .

So , like we help podcasts grow more easily , easily , right , we can do it for you , we can do it with you , you can do it on your own , but there has to be that scaler and that's a two-year thing . Like we spent two years building one offer and now it still breaks my heart half the time , but we're still building a new offer then as well .

Right , but it's in the same niche . So this is where , like you know , I mean I asked you about what did you ? What have you gone back on ? I've gone kind of back on this

a small bit . My thesis before was like do one thing and only do one thing only , and that's it . I'm still doing one thing only , but I'm doing multiple things within that bracket . So we still help podcasts grow more easily , or whatever you want to describe it .

But there's different ways to do it , and the reason why I'm saying this is just because , like that's how you , you get to a stage whereby it's much more of like a bigger brand that's not dependent on you to some degree , and even like Joel's in the group and maybe just someone else that joins you to help set in the group and so on and so forth , because

I think we well , my situation is obviously different , because we built a company and then we built this offer . So what I was trying to do as an example , which was so easy for us to build , was the fact that I just had the people . Do you get me ?

Yeah , I had the infrastructure , whereas 99 of people on the right way to do this , to add it on over time , but this is kind of where you want to get to , which is where it becomes this 40 , 50 , 60k , 80k a month business and the thing is I'm willing to just put my heart and soul into it , like already .

The problem with that is , by the time I finish talking for an hour and a half or two hours and I will literally just go . I'll have notes , but I'll just go , I'll just be and I just don't stop talking , because it's always something I'm passionate about and it's always something that I'm pretty well educated on .

But that means that people don't get the chance to actually talk to each other and to me . So now we have Sunday morning call , which is educational . We have Wednesday morning . Now it's going to change because we've got literally people all over the world .

So we have to change the times of the of some calls to meet some people's needs , and the Wednesday call is literally for all of us to jump onto , zoom and talk . We don't there's there's nothing , there's no , like there's nothing set . We just talk and ask each other questions . So what do you do ? What's your business ? How old are you ?

What experiences have you had ? Dude , I'm so happy for you . It's just two hours .

But knowing that I was sober , knowing that I was running every single day , sometimes 10 K a day , going to the gym every single day , I kept asking myself why am I doing this , what is this for ? And I didn't actually know it was only when I came to Bali . I mean , Joel had the idea let's do monthly membership .

I met you , I met you and everything kind of came together . But I think a lot of people have bought into the creative club because they've saw my transformation over six months and like it's one thing I'm pretty proud of .

And I feel like with you we spoke about this before it's like you're you're very open and you're very transparent and you share your mistakes . And there's a great quote it's like people want to hang on to your rough edges . That gives something for people to hang on to .

If you're like smooth and I think a lot of these guys when they start , it's like I have to be perfect , I have to be this like polished product , and it's like no , like show your mistakes .

And like , as long as you learn from your mistakes and don't continuous , continuously repeat them , which I did making the same mistakes every single week for about two years . I think if you find a way out , then people will respect you and they'll want to hear your advice .

And like the amount of people that message me now , just that so many people struggle with alcohol . But they they message me personally and be like , oh , don't share this , like don't tell anyone or don't put this on your story or whatever , like I'm really struggling with it and like that's the thing . I think me sharing my journey .

Now I don't , I don't want to talk , like I'm having a bit in time because now I've got control of my alcohol addiction and I can just enjoy one beer or two beers , so everything's under control now .

And I still love , like I said on your podcast , I love being on anything and again I just want to I know I literally believe in everyone Like I think if you really want to do something , you can do it .

And I think like just being surrounded by people , like both of you , like when I doing that podcast in the first week I was in Bali with you Like I think just just was , like just changed my mindset even more and I was like , fuck , I , I can do so much more like I'm capable of so much more , and I'm actually just being lazy let me ask you this what

was the experience like when you went back drinking ?

.

So I said my experience after a beef my bad , Sorry bro .

And , uh , so we're in savoyer listening to jeremy orlander and I'm like , yeah , this is good vibe . And and then tom's like , oh , have you ever triederemy orlander ? And I'm like I had this good vibe . And and then tom's like , oh , have you ever tried using nicotine things ? Right , I'm like , oh , no , nicotine's gay , I don't want it .

And then he's like oh , but like oh , hormose and all the guys who do it I'm like I never have to get to it . Well , if he's taking it , then maybe I should take it . So I was like I was like what to do ? And he's like it just makes you super focused and I was like whatever . I was like give me one .

He gave it to me and about 20 , about 20 minutes later , I was like literally straight away , and I went up . I went up to tom and I was like dude , what the fuck was going on with this ? And I had like two or three of them and I was just so dialed into the music . I was sober , completely sober , right , just like bopping along to nicotine .

And then we came back and I was like coming down off the nicotine and we was like 10 o'clock , 11 o'clock at night and tom was like yeah , yeah , it's really good . I was like , yeah , it was amazing . And he was like , yeah , you should do it , we're working . And my mind was like , wait , what he was like ? Yeah , dude , like it keeps you super focused .

So I woke up next morning , swear to god , at five o'clock in the morning and I was like where's the nicotine went over , took one of them , my nicotine and I wrote about 25 a4s of notes for one of our programs .

And from five o'clock in the morning I listened to a svenvot set that was four , four hours long from like 1982 in like berlin , and it was basically like being , basically like being on drugs effectively and uh , your addiction .

For that it was super like being , basically like being on drugs effectively and it was super strong and basically we ended up taking like a shit ton of the nicotine gums , whatever . And I came back home and I told Elise I was like Jesus Christ , listen to this .

And then someone knocked on the door and it was a Go-Jek driver and I opened up the door and Tom had sent me two packets of nicotine , and I literally had them in my hand and I literally had them in my hand and I was like , what am I gonna do with these ? and I went in and , uh , it's been a wild journey since .

So , yeah , dude , they're like super , super , super strong they're gonna make other so it's gonna fuck me .

I do want to leave it all because I don't want to rely on any substance . There's really long term . For the moment . I'm busy , we're quite busy at the moment . So having one coffee because I used to crash after coffee , but that's nice . One coffee after I've done something we spoke about this this morning after you've done something hard , have a coffee .

So either you have to do some push-ups or I have to do a run or I have to do some skipping , um , then I can have the coffee . So I don't just give myself the reward immediately have a coffee and then later in the day I'll have a couple of them .

When people talk about like an Ibiza , come down where , like they lie in bed and cry , I'd never , ever had that in my life , but I had it this time and it was like I mean , seven months , no , 200 days , no alcohol and just all natural dopamine . And then I'm in a b-fell with all my best friends , close friends , everyone's been ballers .

Now getting tables and this is also another problem is that whenever you get tables , it's . It's a terrible idea because it's just unlimited alcohol like which is never , ever good for me . If you give , put me in an all-inclusive hotel with unlimited alcohol and beers , I'll just drink until I just can't anymore . Literally so I said to myself .

I had my first beer . Tasted absolutely horrible , tasted like chemicals , tasted so bad couldn't believe it , and I was like . Then I had another one . Didn't taste so bad . Then I had another one and then it was just a buffet three nights in a row of just tables and I was like . Then I had another one Didn't taste so bad .

Then I had another one and then it was just a buffet three nights in a row of just tables , bottles , till seven , eight in the morning , wake up , 12 , four hours , sleep , repeat , and everyone was going full . Send Rob , mike , everyone . And it was three days of chaos . On my actual birthday I woke . I woke up worst I've ever felt in my life .

We had a yacht booked and I was like I'm just gonna go to the hospital because , like , my body was like overheating from inside and I was like I can't do this , this is the , this is a huge mistake . And then I didn't really remember anything .

So like , let this , when I'm talking now I want this to be a lesson to everyone is don't go and do what I did , which is go from teetotal completely sober to full sun . Just don't do that . It's not , it's never , ever gonna end well . I didn't really remember most my birthday until I remembered the first meal , the first dinner where I had my first beer .

Other than that , I don't really remember much . I remember when we arrived in abifa , went to the gym , we got lunch . Everything was so nice . I was filming it all on my real camera . Everything was good . Everything was just real dopamine like .

And for next year I've swore that I want my birthday to be something where we don't go , to be fair , where we go to somewhere where we've all never been and we're going to explore , we're going to adventure like we're going to hike .

I want everyone to get real dopamine , rather than girls nightclubs am in the morning like overindulging , like I don't want that anymore , like that's not , it's not good . But cindy had my other iphone , so I have two phones , one's just for recording .

Cindy had it and Cindy recorded everything from the whole weekend and I was scared to look at the recordings because I was just feeling so bad . I literally felt so bad In Madrid when I went back from a buffet . I couldn't look at people in the eyes because I felt so bad and almost disappointed in myself . I eventually got over .

It took about about three days and then I looked at the footage and I was like , right , I'm gonna try and make a vlog and see what we've got . And cindy had recorded everything and like this , funny moments where me and rob are sat we just woke up . We're sat having a beer , smoking cigarettes . We never , ever , I never ever smoked cigarettes .

I got a sick apartment in Madrid . I spent a little bit more money , got the best apartment in Madrid . I literally grinded so , so hard before my birthday for a month straight and I enjoyed it . And when I put the vlog together I almost had a tear in my eyes because I was like that was actually sick and there's a .

Oh , if you go sober somewhere and look at drunk people , like honestly , but it was like Savaya was good because it's good music , it's outside , it's bouncy , it's not a club setting . Okay , but if you're in a club , setting bro it's just a constant chase of the next thing , right . So it's like beer , this conversation with this girl .

Tune , let's go listen to music , all right , let's go take a piss , let's go get a beer . So it's like an escalation period until your body can't take any more substance , yeah , and then it's just like zombie mode , but it's just like . That's what it is . Everyone is moving in that pattern .

Now I'm not judging , because I literally did that for a fucking decade , but it's just interesting to observe to be like people are taking a break from whatever they're doing to just keep adding shit in overindulgence , as you said , to the point that they can't do it anymore . People do this with food , it's literally people do it with sex

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I'll never purposely judge people , but often , now that I've experienced what I have and being sober , I look at people and be like fuck , why is he doing that ? Or why is she ? I wish they weren't doing that . Yeah , which I also want to move away from because I don't want to judge people and and be that way .

But I just think everyone , everyone's life will change going sober and I still swear , still swear by it and like there is times where I said I was never in a casual drink again .

But in moments where I'm excited like I was really excited for this conversation and the guy next door was having a beer and I was like , fuck it , I'll just have one because I'm excited about this moment and another situation , this nicotine's just kicking in and now you're not gonna get me off the mic .

But I mean , I said I wasn't going to casual drink but me and cindy were in bangkok and I had never been in . Like I felt like just so excited to like everything . I had never been to a city like bangkok before . And then we got a tuk-tuk and the guy's like I don't want to get beers , and then we got beers for the tuk-tuk .

We're blasting our own music , we're driving around . We went to chinatown and like that moment was actually enhanced by the beers because it allowed me and Cindy to relax , feel more comfortable , go to the Chinatown , try different foods that maybe we wouldn't try if we were completely sober , talk , interact with people in a different way exactly that .

We had slightly more confidence , but because we had one or two beers and I think that in that moment it enhanced the night honest with your relationship with it .

Um , you might have a good relationship with it , but the the real kind of honest , frank conversation you have to have for yourself is am I using this to achieve a certain particular way , in a state of feeling that could otherwise be achieved without something external ? He says with nicotine like his mouth .

But that's the honest relationship , cause that's when it's a vice , right . So let's say , you go out every Friday and it's like oh , it's because I want to , I want to see the boys and I want to connect with the boys , and I have a whole theory about this .

I spent a lot of time around like rugby players and football players and in Cardiff as well , there was a big kind of scene for that and I would notice like Sweet Caroline would come on . It'd be 3am and like all of the rugby boys , like hands around each other . I love you bro . I love you , bro .

As men , we need an emotional release and we're not good usually at letting that go or doing it in ways that are kind of sustainable . So that kind of . The reason for kind of drinking isn't because you want to drink . The reason is that a lot of men , I believe , drink every weekend is because they they get .

They need the emotional release , they need the connection . But you now use the alcohol as the tool to get to that emotional release . So the real work is okay . Can I spot somewhere I'm using alcohol or anything else in my life to get a certain inner feeling ? How can I allow myself to feel that , um , without anything external ? Um ?

And then that's when you start having honest , frank conversations and then , if you want to be , it's an enhancement , if you have an honest relationship with it and you're not using it to get a certain inner state , what you then do is you can use it to enhance . So I had a chat with someone I respect a lot , um , and she said the same .

She was like if I want to go to ibiza , she doesn't drink . If I go to ibiza , I'm gonna have like a couple of whatever cocktail , girly things , because that's the reason intent to go there is to be chaotic , social , social , social and do it , and but that's an honest relationship with it , but a lot . But you've come to that through being sober .

And so I say to a lot of people in order to actually assess your relationship with alcohol , you do have to leave it behind for a little bit , you do have to do a stint sober and then you can be honest with your relationship with it and I completely agree with you , and I agree with that point too , like if you can control it really well , I just think

most people can't right , most people can't and I definitely used to be like that but as well also analyzing Mike , who's one of my best friends and again I was telling Tom this I love psychology , I love analyzing people .

We got tables and stuff , but he didn't want to drink and I was kind of watching him to see if it did enhance his night or if it didn't . And for some people it doesn't , it doesn't enhance . For some people it can really let them loose and they can come out of their shell .

But again , and a lot of people use it as well and say , oh , it gives , it gives me more confidence . Being in a bifur , I can honestly say I was way more confident being sober than drinking alcohol .

And even the conversations that we're having , like yes , we were being kind of djans but and it was funny , but it's also I guess you have to allow time for both . You can't just be serious all the time , having conversations about progress and self-improvement all day , like 24 7 . Yeah , like you have to have some funny moments as well .

Okay , and I said this time before we were in Ula Wattu , I guess have bad tendencies , like I'll do bad shit if I'm left to my devices you know just the devices of life , like I'll drink a ton , I'll party a ton , and so on and so forth if I'm left to my devices . And I wouldn't do it on my own , but I mean like with the boys , whatever .

And I've never , ever wanted a drink in the past two years , apart from when elise was in hospital . So I spent three days straight in the hospital and I was driving home on the friday night and it was the first time in my life .

I was like I'd love a few beers and I was driving back to motorway on sunset road and I was like , like if I pull over somewhere in Kuta , I'd rail a few beers and 20 cigarettes right now , and that's bad yeah .

We're like trying to get things sorted , so like basically just like escalated tension , and then I was driving back , and it was the first thing that came into my head . I was like , if I just got railed right now and just drank a shit ton and had 20 cigarettes , I had that inkling , and then I was like but then I've all I've sat with .

I thought , though , instead of being like , oh , whatever happened , I told the lady straight away , and then I've been thinking about it since because , like , I've been around a lot of alcoholism for all of my life and I've seen that when shit gets tough , people turn to alcohol , and I've seen how destructive it's been .

And if you're not , basically when , when you're outside of your comfort zone let's say , like that instance of being in a hospital you're outside of your comfort zone , not for progress or progressing , just because it's a stressful scenario , that that's when you go back to pulling the vice card , right because that's , it but exactly , and that's a test , right .

so I like looking at that being like I am a degenerate and I need to have the pillars in place because if I don't , it's like food , right . So I have a coach , I have a meal plan and I'm 80% effective on it for the most part , because I know that whenever we go off meals I'll be like I'll get a 40 inch pizza and all this kind of shit .

Does that make sense ? Now , that's bad , and that's why I wanted to ask you about alcohol , because for me , I have like a lot of guilt and regret when I go off the path , because I know the path's the path to get to the goal , but obviously there's an anti-goal . Have you ever heard of anti-goals which is the opposite ?

So like , let's say , if you do make a million a month business , but you've lost your family , friends , you're fat as fuck and everyone hates you , you have no hair , that's an anti-goal . So on , so on the path to the goal , which I know the goal is there's a lot of things pulling you off , you know .

of the universe . Your behavior will be a certain way if there's a subconscious belief or thing that you have that you haven't fully processed and that behavior will have some sort of emotional charge . So the way to do this is you want to . When something comes up like basically it's the escapism , right , it's like this is getting difficult .

Now , that's coming up with the escapism there , what you want , but that has a charge to it as well , like there it's pulling you because there's some sort of energy behind it . There's a charge . What you want to do is you want to like , really like . Well , there's two options .

One you just let it happen and you keep doing that , and then your life will keep teaching you lessons until you learn that lesson . That's exactly what happened to me , literally exactly that .

There's an aspect of them that is reflecting back to you something that you haven't fully processed yourself . It might not be identical . It probably isn't the same thing . Um , like , for example , like people I let's say I got pissed off that you're like drinking . I'm like I'm sober and like we shouldn't be drinking , like what's he doing ?

But that points to an aspect of me that hasn't processed something I haven't processed that people can have a healthy relationship with it . Um , and that points to my inner work .

Like all of our triggers just point back to some work that we have to do on ourselves , right , um , but if you can spot them , like darren did in that moment , if you can spot it and you can be like , ah , a trigger is coming up and then you can sit with it and what you want to do is you want to get rid of the charge that it has and you want to

consider , like , all points of view , and then when you fully integrate all points of view , um , and you have no judgment , that's when it loses its charge , and then you can actually , like , make a decision . Um , but it's a big thing . This is , life teaches us everything we need to know .

about at least being in hospital , and you felt just , yeah , probably out of control , all the alcohol would have done is temporarily numb the pain and probably amplified it the next day when you woke up yeah , because it's depressant , right , and now it's been added in the wrong context , exactly so there's nothing wrong with having a glass of wine when you have

your first child , or whatever the context is , but it's like it's it's being used in society for the wrong things , but then it's also used on a counter side , which is used for the right things or used for uh , so it's the commiseration .

I didn't mean to interrupt you , but it was like , um , like , a lot of things I have , or that I've built , have been out of control . You know , I've left my job , I've built a business , I've done this . I can control my release schedules and my travel schedules .

So when something breaks that chain , that's what takes the effect in the inner game and it hurts and it makes you feel scared yes , but I've controlled that for , let's say , business , because knowing that business is an infinite game , it's ongoing or with fitness . So , yeah , you had the pizza , it's fine , just get back and train tomorrow .

But it's like they're the low level , like level one problems , but then when you have like a bigger problem , that's when you get a bigger pullback . Yes , do you get me . It's like , um , the tremors of an earthquake . It's a stupid analogy the small ones you're not going to feel , but the bigger one can rock the entire foundation .

And that's kind of an interesting observation , because I've had a couple of like , as you guys know , like catastrophic shit happened to me , especially this year yeah , 20 , you know you mentioned about good things , bad things happening to you , and like bad things were coming . Bad things are always coming , but it's all about in the context .

So 2023 for me was up and up and up and we're growing a business , growing a business , growing a business . And now the things have gotten a lot harder . Big issues have happened , personal issues have happened , and it's more about like how you react to it and to your point .

You know it's that's so cliche to say like how you react to it , but it's almost like when you think through like an infinite lens . You anticipate problems because you know they're coming , yeah , but you know because the consequences can be so severe . You need to be a kind of bit more well equipped . This is the point .

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In my opinion , um , what I see a lot of like the these go wrong here is that you kind of escape reality through spirituality , and what actually is spiritual is what is right in front of you . That is the spiritual path . And look , we all come down . Whatever the fuck is going on here , we all come down and we come down in a fucking mess .

Our parents are fucked up . No one has parents who are like perfectly able . We then take on their nervous system , Like if your dad's really like worries and your mom worries when you're a kid , you literally match their nervous system . So , because you match their nervous system , this is how you show up in your day-to-day life .

So let's say , I'm now like a warrior . I will now produce results in physical reality that reflect back to me that that's some work to do , because I'm worrying . That's now my work and this is what I think like it's been a really helpful thing for me to like understand

over the last few years . It's like the work you need to do is literally right in front of you and people kind of get caught on like I'm going to do this or I'm going to have this huge goal . And there's a great quote from a guy called George Gajeef and he says people focused on the impossible to avoid doing the possible .

And that's what I see a lot here . People focus on the impossible , the huge goals , the things like talk about the vision , all of this , rather than doing the work that is right in front of them . And the work , whatever it is , today there is something that you could do which will force you to move to the next level .

It might be that phone call that you haven't made and you know you need to make it , and you just do that and you pull on that thread and then you solve it and like for me , this is , this is part of , like you know , goal stuff and all of this .

And it's like actually the work you need to do right now is the shit that is right in front of you and you already know what it is , If you can spot it .

beers and cry in the hotel room and I was like no , no , no , no . And again , I'm not trying to control Cindy , but I was like let's not have beers , let's not get a pack of cigarettes it and think about it sober and be aware of it and think about let's just , let's just take this bad moment and just sit with it and not numb it with alcohol .

And cindy was like no , no , I definitely want to have beers . And I'm like , no , let's , let's honestly just sit with this moment . It's a bad moment and let's be sober and let's just deal with it .

He was tolerating , let's say , like maybe a relationship or whatnot that he had to bring to an end and as a result of that , he he calls it like world building . He builds a world that he wants which is fit , healthy , doing mma , doing boxing , whatever , taking care of his kids , and then he builds the world around it .

So let's say , if it's a shitty client or if it's alcohol , whatever , it's like what is that thing that you're tolerating ? It could be a family person , it could be a parent , it could be a friend , but you , you have your own choice . And this is where hermosy got it really right in the beginning with his message , because people take his like family advice .

Like you know , some people hate it , some people love it . I actually I'm a big advocate for it , which is like you don't need to tolerate shit . If someone's not respectful for you , you can cut them .

You know , um , that could be a friend , it can be a whatever , and it does show up in your you mentioned , but the worrying right , it's a projection of where you are or what you're doing , um , and it's about setting that world view and that's what I'm really really serious on . Now something doesn't go well .

We can remove it , right , because people will suffer in silence or live a quiet life , desperation , instead of solving that problem , but it's usually only a few things you're tolerating .

think , even though Joel built the back end and then didn't really have any responsibilities I think doing hard things with a friend or with someone that you like or someone that you trust or someone with more experience than you , even if you have to give them a slice of the pie or whatever just doing it with someone , doing the hard things with someone else ,

can make it so much easier and even more enjoyable , and I think that's why having a good network of friends is what I've learned is has been the the thing that's helped me more than anything in the world . Can I ask you both a question on that ?

Which is why I don't like relationship wise . In the recent years I haven't let people too close and it's also what has ruined other relationships is I'm not fully open . Now I feel safest when I'm not fully open . Now I feel safest when I'm like on my own because I feel like in control . But that's not

good . If you want to have like yeah , like a partner Now in terms of like having relationships as you're both building , I just want to like know what did you when you guys like met and when you , when you were like being serious about this relationship it's like a long-term thing like what did you look for ?

What made you think like right , this is someone who I can build with as well , and I have definitely have a tendency where I'm like I'm just going to do all my own shit and then I'll just pick someone .

I'll just get across the line and I'll just pick someone and I would know that I would rather have someone that I can build with and that would mean more to me .

Who's been there in the ups and downs and , um , so I'm curious , like what you both kind of found when you kind of met your partners and you were like , right , I'm going to build with this person .

I think that's very self-aware , that you've realized this , because I have many friends and I know I've listened to so many podcasts and , as exactly what you said , they're going to do all the work , they're going to build the business , they're going to achieve all their goals and then they're going to pick someone , which I think is honestly quite sad , sad , like

so I think it's such a luxury to have someone to build with . And I think , like you hear andrew tate , hear all these guys saying like , oh , I'm gonna get a wife and then she's gonna live in the other house and I'm gonna live in this house , and then , like , I honestly think that's bullshit .

Like I think you just need to find someone that you can trust and that loves you and you love them and will support you , and you're going to be twice as powerful with someone on your side , rather than you doing all the work , you're doing all the suffering and then you get your wife out of her other house when you want to enjoy those , like I think that's

completely wrong . So I think I think it's so important to I don't know , it's hard , it's hard to . I don't think you should go out looking for someone . I don't think you should ever go out with the intention right , I'm going to find a relationship . I think people will eventually come to you .

But I think , being very self-aware with exactly what you've just said , I know so many people who have that mindset I'm going to build , I'm going to work , I'm going to get the best physique , I'm going to make a million dollar business and then I'll find a girlfriend .

But I think it's so much more enjoyable to enjoy the process with someone that you love and that and build it together . It just makes it more special . Like everyone says , in life , human connection is that's why we're here is to connect with other people and to have interactions and share emotions and share , share everything like that's . I'm the opposite to you .

I don't like being alone , I don't like doing things alone , but I definitely I just think it's .

It's makes everything so much easier for me and I just wish more people would be more self-aware like you and realize that if you don't have to , there is no right time yeah like you'll always just continue pushing , pushing people away because you're not ready , when , if you could just be more honest and more vulnerable and allow someone to come in and they might

not be the right person for you but they might add something that ideas and concepts that you haven't fought do you know what I mean ?

When I met her , she didn't even know what consulting was . She didn't even know what the word meant or whatever . She was like cool , I'm just backpacking whatever . And immediately I wasn't looking for a relationship , we just came across each other and we immediately got on . I think within a week .

Subconsciously , I knew I wanted to marry her because it was the to and fro , the balance , the bouncing . It's not like oh my god , balance , it's more just the balance of a relationship , like the ebb and flow and as time went on , like we did , long distance , for the first , like six months .

So the first six months of a relationship she was in America and I was in Ireland and she was seeing the cracks and what I was doing . So I was in consulting . I hated it . She was like if you don't like it , do what you want to do . And I went up working for revoluted time I was early in the company , earlyish .

And then she put that idea in my head and I was minus five thousand dollars in debt when I had met her and she was like , well , if you want to get out of that , you could just do something else . Right , and I wouldn't have talked through that frame because I was so used to like get promoted , get promoted , do this right .

And then we eventually , when we did say we wanted to live together , because she was American , I was Irish , we couldn't do it in Ireland . So we thought where could we go ? Maybe Mexico , maybe Thailand , maybe Dubai , maybe Greece we were looking at . And then we settled on Bali and during that process she was seeing things that I wasn't seeing .

So we were having these conversations around a kitchen table and she was like , why don't you start a podcast ? And she was the one that put that idea in my head . And then , during the process too , when I was living in Singapore and I was working for Revolut , I hated it .

I was up , I was working 16 hours a day , the podcast was going well , and she was the one that that said , maybe you could build a business around the podcast and I was like , oh no , no , everyone says that you know , this is the way it is .

And then vice versa , I remember her in my apartment in Dublin crying saying that she had no skills and I was like , what are you talking about ? She had built like a bunch of like um Instagram pages and stuff like this when she was younger and she loved wildlife and I was like , why don't you do something in the animal area ?

So I saw that in her and then we went down the dog route as a result , and even here , when we started the charity here we were rescuing the dogs , I was taking the photos on my sony camera , she was taking care of the instagram and then I kept building , building and building and then she went off and ran . It ran herself .

So it's always been that balance back and forth . And even when we're doing podcast tours , I refer to when she's there , because I like that when we're recording like this all day , we can go chill in a restaurant and just talk about dogs .

So it's like that bouncing back effect and therefore that pushes me further as a result , because when I'm not grinding , we're chilling and then also I'm also grinding because of the relationship . So I've had to see before that I actually work better when I'm actually with , at least on my own .

So whenever I'm in Dubai , if I'm on , if I'm in an apartment on my own , I'm just like on Instagram and I'm working on Instagram , right , whereas when I'm with her , I'm like , subconsciously , I can see that , like , this is the future , I want to take care of her . That's part of her masculine and feminine . She doesn't need to work .

She can work if she wants to . She doesn't want to work by the way . She wants , she wants to play girl and just play with dogs . So I help her in that pursuit . She helps me in my pursuit . And even today , when I was going out , um , I was like okay , we need to be gone in 12 hours time , can you just put a few things together in a backpack ?

And she's like , yeah , perfectly fine , so that's moved us towards a goal . Okay , but this is the kicker During the process of minus $5,000 in debt and where we are now , she's never viewed me differently because of what I've built and vice versa . I don't view her as like a fucking Instagram person with dogs .

So it hasn't changed her views of me and vice versa . It's still the core tenants . We like to travel , we like to have fun , we're like animals and we like eating and talking shit and just doing weird stuff .

So the core foundations never changes and even when I was going to move to Dubai , she was like cool , if you've got to spend like two days at Dubai a year , it could help us more . So , whatever the goal is , she's kind of there behind . Now .

If I was to flip that and make a ton of money and go to Dubai and find some chick from Russia , well , she's probably she could be coming with the wrong intentions . I could be going to her with the wrong intentions . Similarly , I could be trying to find the hottest girl because I'm a millionaire . Does that make sense ?

So I'm attracting the wrong person , because I'm chasing that , because , let's say , someone who waits to be in a relationship . Well , now you're attracting all the girls who waited to find the rich guy .

So they waited , and now you waited and now you're in this toxic relationship , whereas , like me and Lisa are just completely chill , you know , and it's not comfortable .

If anything , it's the opposite , you know , because I'm trying to get better for her and she's trying to get better for me and like I'm teaching her about fucking funnels , and then she's teaching me about different things too , you know , I think , it's really nice .

Like even me and Cindy had to go and have a difficult conversation with whatever happened in our personal lives last night and I was dreading this horrible conversation . That's why we left Thailand to come here and have this conversation so we'd get answers to what happened . And I was dreading that conversation ever since the meeting and the time was set .

I was dreading it but I kept telling myself I know , after this conversation I'm going to feel so much better and we're going to hopefully have some closure and blah , blah , blah . And Cindy was the one striving we have to go to Bali now . We have to go and have this conversation , we have to sort this .

Whereas the old me or me on my own , I might've just run away and left it and tried to cover it over and Cindy pushing me into uncomfortable situations again , going sober was me and Cindy decided to do that together and it changed

my life . So I think it's good to have someone who like . Have a girlfriend who supports you , but also have a girlfriend who isn't licking your ass and telling you that everything you're doing is right and calls you out your shit right exactly , it's so important and it's important to recognize .

And when I observed with elise in the early days , I was if she was upset about something , I'd be like just sort it . But then you , I was like just do it . But then you realize that not everyone is the same and the fact that she is the polar opposite of me .

In that regard , I had to come to her with a different approach , a different , more of an empathetic approach and whatnot . So I was learning that . I'm still learning that , and and that even showed up in my business how I approach clients , cause like if I someone doesn't do something that we need them to do , I'm like , for fuck's sake , just do it .

But I'm learning through that lens . So if I didn't have that exposure , I would just be the shell of a human in Dubai in a massive apartment and be like , just fucking make the funnel so it gives you another vertical . Basically . And I spoke to rob with this on monday in his content framework .

He has his relationship and they're getting married and he's documenting that process because people are seeing him evolve and they trust him more and so on , so forth . So that's a second , third , fourth order of consequence .

So I think absolutely , because , think about this way if you're trying to , like , optimize your life , well , you're still going to be a human , you're still going to be on tinder and god forbid , you're going to be going on the escort route , which is what a lot of people do , right ?

So you're gonna , you're gonna search for that , no matter what well , I'm searching for connection exactly so .

When they become wealthy , they just pay for it , right , and that's just the reality , whereas those buffer hours , no one can work 24 hours a day , so that extra hours within the day is filled with something that's valuable , you know , and like now , since elisa's sick , we're just like chilling at home .

You know , I'm getting up super early , I'm working , getting back from the gym super early and then , if we do have downtime , we're late to watch a netflix dude because and I re-watched breaking bad , by the way it's fucking better .

It's better the second time around , but it's an interesting observation , right , because you do have time for this time , for everything going to gym , whatever . It's all about how you allocate the time within the relationship and show up in the relationship .

And again we go back to being a leader of the house , like I think the masculine should be the leader of the house and not from , like , a dominance perspective , but I mean he should lead his family , lead his people in his house .

So when Lisa was sick , I took it on myself to lead the family in that regard , which is we need this done , we need that done , we need our cleaners to come in more , vice versa , whatever , and people are looking for that leadership role too , especially when they don't have it .

I'll give you the counter argument if someone is like super insecure in themselves , they don't know why they're in a relationship , they're kind of chasing girls or being a nice guy , well then no one is leading right . And leading is not dominance , it's it's creating a circle of safety that people can act themselves within that regard .

And that's what I'm doing within our company too . You've all probably maybe seen when I was younger and I was hiring people , I was like just fucking , make the funnel , just do this , whereas now I'm trying to put people in their best position to act themselves , to try their stuff .

And I'll give you an example we have a new designer and he's amazing and he's always looking for . He's like is this right , is that right ? I'm like dude , I'm putting you in your best position to go do what you want , and he loves it , he's trying new stuff and so on and so forth .

So , taking that example , when you bring that into your relationship , you can try different things , you can be yourself , you can have new goals , and if someone is in that circle of safety , they're going to elevate you in that path .

You can't always think like that for your entire life .

You know , people generally didn't make much money , whereas then the boomers they had , they had access to technology and computers and so on . So it was we . How can I consume as much as possible ? Sorry me .

And then that really escalated the past 20 , 30 years , which is why people are like I'm not getting in a relationship , I'm not gonna have children , from a selfish perspective , whereas like the best thing you can do is have responsibility . Now you don't need to have kids . Have responsibility .

When we , when I got my first dog with Elise about four , three years ago , I was like fucking hell , we have this dog now , do we need to take care of ? And that sense of responsibility meant that when I got back from the gym and if Elise was sick , I need to feed the dogs , I need to make sure they walk and so on , so forth .

So now Elise doesn't ask me to do it , but if I wake up in the morning and she can't get out of bed . I'll just bring the dogs for a walk , you know , and it's fucking four of them , you know , and it's like taking that leadership responsibility .

It's like choose great responsibility and up to have the power , and reflecting both of what you've just said there , you're choosing the responsibility and that's making you more powerful .

For that , I'm grateful for the opportunity to be responsible and to be someone who these people respect and look up to , and I have to .

Now I don't have children , but people say that's . That's the case with children is that when you have a child you obviously don't know what you're doing , but but you figure it out . In that regard it's like a business .

You know , when you start bringing people on , or responsibility , or payroll , you know that's one thing that I've come I used to be fearful of . It's just a mindset thing , like when I was much more finite mindset .

I would think , jesus Christ , how can I pay these salaries and do this , whereas now I'm like I'm making decisions now that will have second , third quarter order of consequences four or five years from now . You know which is where we've changed direction and I'm doing so much backend stuff that most people will not see in the front end .

You know , and I often say that to the guys as well , because I don't see them half the time I show up and I'm like this is all the shit that I'm doing so that we have this in four years time , you know , and I think that's a decade long thinking . That's , I guess , what a family is right Is that you're thinking 10 , 20 , 30 years ahead .

But most guys are not thinking that and they do something retarded . They think with their dick they go the wrong direction . They find a month . It's all about what games you're playing but everyone's playing a game .

Also , some a bit of advice I got as well , and it's like don chase the butterflies . That's actually not a good sign . If you get like the butterflies , you're actually trauma bonding . So if you On to butterfly Like , if you get like the spark , like the excitement , it's like oh , we just like , we just fell madly in love .

That for a long-term partner , that's not actually a good move . It's not a good move to make like a huge decision like that . Um , all from like , oh , it's just how we make each other feel . We fall head over heels in love .

It's like , actually , if you want to build with someone long term , look for someone who you can actually maybe not become friends with but you get to know over a longer period of time and don't necessarily look for the butterflies and the just crazy like falling head over heels in love .

Um , look for like building the relationship slowly and when you get the like , um , the butterflies or like the the we just fell in love and spark . It's actually pointing towards like the trauma you have and you basically you trauma bond with someone and you match each other's trauma and then you trauma bond and then that will come up in the relationship .

Um , but it feels safe and comfortable , which is why we feel the spark is because we're like I recognize this and my shit is going to fit perfectly with your shit and it's going to feel familiar , which is why what feel the spark is because we're like I recognize this and my shit is going to fit perfectly with your shit and it's going to feel familiar , which

is why what I'm experiencing as love , but actually like what you would kind of want to look for , is like not necessarily you want to be attracted to someone , of course , but like the whole kind of head over heels in love thing is maybe not the best approach when picking , like making a huge decision like that .

I I feel and that's all because of the changes that I've made and cindy's made .

And yeah , I think if a relationship does start like that , obviously it can go two ways , obviously , but if you work together and you consciously work together and you do love each other and you want the best for each other , then I think it can lead to to more beautiful things it's the evolution , right ?

I could go an hour two hours .

Appreciate it , man , like I really really do . I think you're both so wise and intelligent and I was . It's not that I came here wanting to gain something from both of you , but I I always feel like I gained so much from just being in the same room as you too , so it's a power to part too right like this is why podcasting is so sick .

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