#186 Tom Garner – Meet the Founder Changing Branding Forever

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heavily , heavily caffeinated . This is going to be a good session , man . Let's get into it , let's go . So . Quote from yourself I want to start with if you want to be transformed , you need to live an intentional life . If you don't have a clear path , you'll be blown off course .

Have an end destination in mind and take actions towards it each and every day . How's it split out for you in your life ?

How are they ? So let me break this out . We're going straight and deep and I love it .

What causes the thoughts that we have are the beliefs that we have about ourselves . Now , the beliefs that we have about ourselves .

They come from our upbringing , they come from experiences that we've had , and that's what pushes us through with this forward momentum All of these beliefs , what our parents said about us , what , in school , our teachers thought about us .

We have beliefs about the things we can do and the things we can't do , and that's the line we're on at the moment , like the timeline we're on at the moment . So once you know that , and once you know that you need to , we can go deep into this in many different ways .

Once you know that , in order to transform , it first has to start with the beliefs that you have about yourself , then you have a starting point and then you can start to change the output .

So , one of the great it is a great book that I've been trying to read all the time , called Secrets of the Millionaire Mind , and here's this great analogy that he says imagine that you've typed up on a Word document on Google Docs , whatever it is . You've typed something out , you press print , it comes out and there's a spelling mistake at the top .

So what are you going to do ? Are you going to tip X ? Remember like what tip X is ? I don't know if anyone's using it anymore . You're going to tip X that out ? Okay , change it . And then press print again . It's going to come out with the same mistake . You're like , oh shit , same mistake again . So what do you need to do ?

You need to go into the Word document , you need to change the input and then you get a different output . So for me , that's when I started . I realized the path I was on , and then I was trying to change the outputs , maybe trying to look a certain way , dress a certain way , but they don't matter , they don't change anything .

So for me , the big transformation came through those realizations and then , focusing on those belief shifting .

you go to school . The school system in Ireland is better than most places in the world , right ? So that's why people put fate in the school system . And then they go into university and whatever you do like , whatever university degree , and so on and so forth . But you're often given a path right .

And the reason why I started with this is because Dan Cole will say if you don't have a plan , you'll be assigned a plan , and that's largely in course of this as well . But for someone like yourself , someone like myself , 99.9% of people are doing that hard , so you need to do something different to change course . So what ?

Now if you information , if you grow up in a certain place , then you perhaps grow up with certain beliefs that everyone does this and then you do this and then you get a job here and then you get a wife , mortgage , mortgage , dog . Now I was very , very blessed and lucky that my parents moved around when I was growing up .

So I grew up in most of my kind of adolescence in Cyprus and I had a keen interest in music guitar , I would just like play guitar for hours each day and I got very good and because of that I got invited to play in certain bands with adults and then I did a lot of gigging as a teenager .

I was it's pretty cringe , but I thought I was a rock star because I was like 15 , 16 years old . I was in pubs and clubs until like two in the morning with these adults drinking beers and I was coming in from over to school like three days away . So I was like I'm a rock star .

I'm really , really cool and for a 16-year old I was earning a ridiculous amount of money that I didn't know what to do with Because , you know , I mean at the time it seemed like a ridiculous amount of money , any money or so , yeah , any money . And for doing what ? For basically having fun playing guitar and drinking .

So it was like that was interesting , an interesting thing . Now , the reason that I kind of give that context is because I had that in Cyprus .

Okay , I had that all of those things happen , and you know , I worked hard , like I earned all of that because I was autistically dedicated to playing guitar like literally four hours every day Practice , do it again , do it again , do it again . That was the thing that taught me .

Discipline was music and the love for it and the nuance of playing something again , but then slightly differently , and both of right , and that's when kind of Artistry comes into everything , which is interesting . So I kind of had this path . Now in Cyprus there's not many opportunities that happen when you kind of turn 18 . There's a university there .

You can either kind of like just sort of , you know , get a job . Maybe I carry on doing the music thing . I could have made a very decent living doing that , playing weddings . You get paid so well for weddings .

I could have done that , but obviously I took the choice right I'm going to go to the UK , I'm going to go to university , because that's what you do . Now , all of this momentum in one direction kind of was you know was going for me .

And then I got to the UK and there was a different set of memes , a different set of beliefs , a different set of ways of doing things that I was suddenly in and the group think around me and I'm not judging whether this is right or wrong or good or bad , but the group think around me was very different and I didn't know it at the time , I didn't realize

, but I felt I've really got depressed . Like university I started just drinking too much . I wasn't making money anymore but I still spend in the same way I was when I was a reckless 18 year old . So I like blew through a ridiculous amount of money in my first year of university at buying everyone drinks and I was like , oh shit , it's all gone .

Like six months in I was like , all right , I've been spending like a silly amount of money at university . So I got I was out of shape , I'd been training , got myself in shape . I was out of shape into kind of the drink and all of that scene , and I think that's what kind of that contrast is what led me to question it .

It's like , right , is it the sunshine ? Is that what it was ? Is that why I don't fit ? So having that clear contrast is the thing that triggered me to just start questioning and that's why I started just reading books , you know , really searching for an answer of like , right , well , what is it ? What is it all ?

interesting there in terms of when you don't know what the other side is , what a better situation is . So let's say , if you do grow up in the UK or somewhere that was like miserable , for instance , right , not something UK is . If you don't know what a better solution is on the other side , there's often less of an incentive to try and change .

But the fact that you had a decent lifestyle and diapers , or at least you saw what the potential was if you were an artist or a craftsman as I describe it , like someone who follows a craft when you had taken away from you , that's what it makes you realize , like fuck , like what were the small things there that I want and live towards ?

So I give you an analogy when I worked , I lived in Ireland . I moved to London , I was working in investment banking and investment banking sucked because spreadsheets are shit , but I like to fast out of making a lot of money .

I was seen as a person of influence or seen as someone who was in authority because I was wearing a suit and I was like 21 , 22 years old and then that was taken away from me when I had to go finish university and I was back in my parents' bedroom . So , because of that , I was like , right , fuck banking , because that's just not cool .

But what are the things that I want ? The lifestyle , the money , I guess , the prestige , and that's . It's different now , right , but when you're 21 , 22 . So that's what I was working towards , and , even though I was in startups after rising big corporates and consulting and tech , I was ultimately chasing that element of which is freedom .

Right , the money gives you the freedom , and freedom gives you this and so on and so forth , but they were the beliefs that I was trying to move towards . So you forget some of the shit , which is like banking . You move towards a new stuff , right , but it's without having that opportunity . And you can get this from books .

Right , you don't need to be in these different countries , but you can get this from books , which is why , or from podcasts , or from influences , which is why , like , the internet is actually really helpful for that , because you can get that information of people .

So it sounds like to me that you were able to see what the potential was , which , when you was taken away from you , you saw what you're missing of .

So it first started I played at like a school do and I just played this piece called by John Butler , but they're called Ocean and it's a crazy guitar piece and , like your hands , it's just an absolute showpiece . It's awesome . And I played that . And then someone approached me can be jude , comes to my band , do this .

All that from that I never , I never tried . And so all of these things happened . And it's because I realized I was , the actions that I was taking were aligned , I was on purpose , and when I was on purpose , things start falling into place .

Now what I think happened is I went off purpose , I learned maybe I didn't go , but I learned so much from all of that stuff . But it's that feeling of when you take this aligned action and you're on purpose with what you're doing , the rest falls into place . And that's what I'm interested in getting back to and getting more people to , because that's for me .

That's a more attractive way of doing business . That's a more attractive way of doing anything is right . Let's get this right and not like , oh , the details will take care of themselves , and like you don't manage your accounts , but the right person will show up , someone will give you the right bit of advice at the right time .

When you're focused on that core thing , the details do take care of themselves . It's not about being reckless . So I think that's that's what I wanted to get back to , and find out even what that thing was that I wanted to get back to . So in the pursuit , of that purpose

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How these as guiding principles is in life , focusing on , like the purpose element , or even the tree of them , how they intersected for you .

Because , like the challenge of this , even the way you're describing it , is that sometimes it can be like reckless thoughts , right , and we need to be able to find a way to aggregate this and streamline it for people , including yourself , to have information that they can action .

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Yeah , yeah . I do believe that that is a muscle that can be strengthened and leaning into that intuition is going to allow you to make much , much better and big decisions . So it's practicing the muscle that you can get very , very caught up in the tools , the techniques , this , the method , and you can put a lot of tension in .

You can put a lot of energy into something , which can cause a lot of tension sometimes , but sometimes you need to take the step back and you need to take an action that is , yeah , is kind of led by intention , and it's less force , it's more of a power .

I don't know if you've read the book Power vs Force , but it's not a forceful decision Making something work , because that causes tension when you put all of that in there . Take a step back and it's right . What is the powerful choice right now ?

And that's , I think , it's practicing and understanding how to locate that within yourself , which is different for everyone , and there's certain tools and techniques that you can use that definitely work , that can go into , certainly 100% . Yeah , we got the time , we got the time Right . Well , yeah , okay .

So here's the biggest one and it goes back to this is the most powerful thing that I've done . That has completely changed my life and I've had an interesting sort of when some of my old friends they look at what I'm doing now they can't piece it together themselves . Like how the hell are you ever here ? Like when I knew you were over here .

I was in Ibiza every year going to all the big events and so on and so forth . Now I still like music , I still love music . I still love going to those events . You need to detach from that identity to move into the next element . And I said to Stephen Jack yesterday he was like oh , you know , I like having a few drinks every once in a while .

I'm like absolutely , I just know , that I can't . I can't build this fucking thing if I'm parodying , if I'm out and it's different for everyone . Right , that was just . That was just a way that you know how I need to change to get to the person I want to be . Obviously , for you , it can be completely different .

Okay , so when people are like talking about all the seven different side hustles , whatever , in every nanosecond , there's only one thing you can talk about or think about .

So when you can only think about one thing at a particular time , then when you are intoxicating yourself or taking these crazy breaks or time off or so on and so forth , you're moving away from that goal .

Now it is , of course , time to rest and recover and take breaks and whatnot , but if you have all this outside influence , you're basically like extending the time horizon .

So I'll give a good example Whenever I meet some sounders and they're going on about how oh yeah , like it took me like two years or three years to achieve this or that , I'm like you could have squeezed it down a small . But if you had that singular focus right , and how I've seen this is from my own personal experiences .

When I was doing kickoff sessions , when I was working at Revolut , I was up at six o'clock in the morning doing all my fucking scheduling and so forth .

I was in work talking to some probably asshole because you know just stupid stuff and then coming back to it later in the evening , whereas when I lifted it and got rid of Revolut , I guess grew up moving much faster when I was doing 10 different side hustles and got rid of those , got rid of Revolut .

The business has literally blown up as a result , because I have that singularity focus . Now . I do think that there's a time and a place for rest and recovery , but we were in the gym yesterday having fun , right . We don't need to be having Going out , perding and doing shit like that .

Right , we can do other things , hmm , and this is a time and a place for everything . But that's just my own personal experience and that's why I don't look down on the people for doing it . I just know that it doesn't suit me this . Is it just a misalignment or what I do ?

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So when they would say things about they're like not like morning routine , but what they're doing , I always thought the one , I did something that was stupid , which is like going out getting pissed . When I woke up next morning and I was editing the files , I'm like , well , I'm just a fucking hypocrite . I'm not that person or I'm not .

I'm not trying to be that particular person . No , I didn't even know who that person was , but the way I always described it was Is this type of person who's doing a million a month or who's doing 10 million views a month ? Is he the type of person who's getting pissed on a Saturday night ?

Whereas now we had an example recently where there was a DJ called lean vanilla I've heard them . So get these like Australian DJ came to Bali and I looked and I was like fuck , this dude's sick and I really like his music and he's playing a Saturday , saturday night .

And I was like odd , love to go , not drink , just love to go and I thought , oh , I clean up the CRM on Sunday mornings . I don't , fucking , I don't time for that , mmm . On Saturday I read my newsletters . So I can't go out on Friday night because I spent three hours running the newsletter on Saturday morning . And Sunday is for clean the CRM .

It's not for me and I'm over . And those are the actions which will get me to I Don't know . I thought about what will it get me . It's being aligned and Russ Harkness talked to what talks about this a lot . Right is that when you're doing this mastery approach and being all in , you're not doing what 99% of people are doing , right ?

Yeah , you have to do the other stuff . Yeah , and I , there's outliers . So this is where it gets interesting , because we have to speak in general terms . Yeah , because there is the outside one . So I'll give an example Rich Webster , who's on my show . He has this work less approach .

He does a great job at it , bringing it down to a couple of hours a week working . But he he's shown that the guys that can do these crazy hours of 14 hours , 16 hours Elon Musk or Mosey Layla or Mosey , so on and so forth they are genetically different , their brains work differently .

They can have that deep work for More than 99% people's out everywhere that will ever live . But we're not like that . So I kind of think about that . In fact , I like I'm kind of dumb , right . So If I have any hope of getting to these figures , I'm gonna need to stop doing this stupid shit .

Yeah , you know , and I've been doing it and I've seen a result from it . I feel so similar with yourself , right .

Okay , well , and you're using that as your compass , to your like barometer for the actions that you're going to take . So it's very much , and this is the most powerful thing and I teach this to like all the guys who come through and you know people don't necessarily know , but they don't know what they don't know and they don't necessarily know what they need .

That's the biggest thing . They don't know what they need . And it's also this is a great thing with sales as well . You sell people what they want and then you teach them what they need . You know , and you have to remember that , because sometimes you might get on a sales call with someone and you're like , right , okay , here's your good software .

Yeah , you need this man . Like , yeah , come on , but they focused on this one thing .

You kind of have to sell them on the thing and then be like , right , okay , yeah , we are going to cover that , but we're gonna have to do this , this , this , this , this and this , and then you'll have that and so that's something I've learned through sales as well Is to kind of like not teach . You have to sell and then teach afterwards .

I was tired , I was tired , I was stressed , I looked like five years older than I do now , um , so that was all shit , but I learned so much from that profession in that three years I am so grateful for and I'll make this point now . There are some fucking incredible teachers , like incredible teachers , who give so much .

They give so much of their time , their energy , and their job is difficult . I have a friend . He's called Simon . I admire this man so much . I admire this man so much . I mean , the job isn't just teaching . He's ahead of you . He has to deal with the police on a daily basis . He's dealing with sexual assault .

He's dealing with all of these things that the behind closed doors these kids deal with when they come into school and we're like , right , you know , learn this . And they're like , okay , whatever , and but behind closed doors , I mean I'm very lucky .

I had an amazing upbringing of amazing parents Not all , and an awful lot of kids don't have that , and when they come to school , that's kind of like their safe space and there's so much that is going on behind doors and it's so complicated and there's parents as well , this and that and religion and all of this , and you're walking through lasers To to one .

Be professional and try and do the right thing . You have to control your emotions because there's a kid who's being her and you're perhaps talking to the person face to face , but you got remember there's so much you have to deal with and I really really admire and respect this man .

So I want to make that point that like , even though perhaps in something like Marketing it's kind of like the comparison things like the nine to five , I do kind of sometimes shit on teaching , sometimes there are some fucking incredible people In that profession doing an amazing , amazing job . There's also some fucking , really , really lazy , fucking people .

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So you have to be who you say you are to the kids . They know we're new , full of shit . They know the teachers who are full of shit . They see they , they operate on a different level that we perhaps lose access to as we kind of I don't know move into kind of professional life perhaps .

So here's the thing you have to be real and you have to be authentic with them . They know when you're not being real and authentic . They see you every day . Your teachers I'm sure if we talk about your schooling , there's like two or three teachers that come to mind . Um , you remember certain things about them . You can probably do an impression of them .

You picked up all of those things from those teachers . So you have to be genuine , you have to be authentic , you have to be who you say you are and you have to care and you can't teach that .

This is the thing is that I don't mean to rock to you , but like this , the big problem with the online space and this is I have a lot of issues . I have a lot of problems with online space . Yes , and I'm not . I've been in it years and years , but from like observation , I know when things are full of shit .

And , uh , nick Rogers nick Rogers would be familiar with um . He made a reel recently which is fucking excellent , being like , so , anyone to buy stuff or , you know , to persuade . There's two aspects there's the authority piece and there's experience piece . Yes it's all these kids and all these fucking money . Kids get in here with experience .

They try to get authority , yeah . So authority is influence , yeah .

And they think that you gain authority by the Rolex , the Lambo's , being in Dubai and so on and so forth , whereas you actually get authority by living the type of content you are like , being that person , being genuinely interested in us , so like I can tell , speaking to you , that you're a big guy on Brand and your impressions and being like someone who's real

and authentic . Say with me , that's our big . These are big like moral codes , right . And the other side , you have to experience and this is where , like , you have to do the work , get client results , no bullshit , and so on and so forth .

And most kids that come into the space are Bullshitting on the authority and don't have any experience because they're not they're not good at it , right . Whereas , like I've been doing this for years . You've been doing this for years You've taken a lot less than some music industry brought into the online business space .

So I think that's a huge piece that most people lack because they see the money . Hmm , sass is hot , agencies are hot . Hey , man's coming out a new fucking course . Let's buy it right , but they're missing the fundamentals and that's why I think Most people don't last Right is that I can fundamentally record do this every day for 10 years .

I can 100% do it because this is an large alignment to what , who I am , yeah , and what I'm saying , uh , every day is I actually Back myself and you know , I actually believe it and I could be proved wrong over time and I changed my opinion .

I'm and I'm vocal , and that because everything I do is record right , which fundamentally , I'm living in alignment with those things . So I can play one of this for many years , you know , whereas most people don't have that short , so it always won't be just for guests .

Right , there's obviously a big guest that I want to get on the show and we got I get them in three years , the end of four years , because I'm gonna be doing it .

The question to ask , even in a kind of selfish way , is how can I serve , how can I give , how can if you ask yourself that question the moment to moment , day to day , week to week how can I be the most valuable to others ? That is a great question to ask . It's a great question to ask and it will change over time .

It will change the more skills you develop , the more experience you have along the way . It will change . But when you ask that question , the rest falls into place , because people are getting value from you . No shit . So that's I mean .

You talk about these kids and you know , I see Something that I've had to sort of deal with as well , because they exist in the same space as you . And then I see some of their ads , or I see someone on social media and I'm like . So me , like , do you know me ? Like ?

I'm like , because I'm on social media , I'm putting out content that has Um echoes , or their contents , or echoes some of the things , and then you have to kind of , oh hang on , like , well , no , I done this , this and this .

They literally recorded on a shitty phone in their mum's bedroom , but they get hold of like they copy , so it kind of sounds the same .

In the beginning Because I like to say that I stand on the shoulders of Jones yeah , so , like in a career aspect of different many years , I was looking at people that were moved very quickly and then , as an entrepreneur , I was looking at guys who've done this model that I do pretty well and like big influence of me doesn't big podcast that I take an

influence from , but then you kind of carve out your own field , you get me . So like there's not many people that are doing these types of podcasts in Bangkok right now . That's on 185 podcasts , right , this is very little . So that's when you become a category of one .

Yes , so if you imagine like a head and shoulders , you stand on the shoulders and then you become the head and as a category of one , yeah , but that takes years . Yeah , and like the way I describe it is that I'll be fundamentally someone different in an extra 180 episodes , but that's part of the evolution .

So , like if you were to look at those kids and we're jumping around a lot , it is , it is really valuable in this . So if you're looking at those kids and how they present themselves . But if he loads of things up and as well , how do they present themselves online ? What are they getting wrong ? Like , what are these new age Entrepreneurs getting wrong ?

Or how to present themselves on instagram , on other platforms ?

Oh , mozi says that as well , we'll five , or whatever he says . What if you can take that step forward ?

Or , rather than getting them to Sign up , sign a contract , whatever , through the content you're putting out , through trainings you're putting out , can you get the results for free , because now you have authority , now you're respected , now you have authority and people are going to listen to you and they've taken that first step with you and you've got them results .

And you can't fake that . There's no faking that . If you can get someone those first results , they're going to be like and this is , for me , this is the point of marketing . Really , I think this is the most effective type of marketing . It's like , right , well , here's the first step , let's do it . Let's do it , this works .

And then when people get those results , they view you as the authority figure and they're gonna be like , right , well , what's next ? And then that's when you start a conversation . They've already got the trust . You don't really have to sell anyone because they already trust you . You've already given them so much that they're ready to take the next steps .

So I think , if you're a kid starting out , don't focus on the hey , do you want to add 30k a month ? Mrr , like I haven't , like what . See , like it all the time . Focus on what it is you can actually help people with and help them for free , even if you don't have to sign .

You sign someone's client if you want , for free or not , help them through your content . Actually start getting people results and then and you're gonna learn so much look , is it's hard to say because everyone's is so nuanced , everyone's indifferent . You can , like , you can speak in general terms . All right , yeah , you can speak in general terms .

So I mean , I think that's the general . You know , get people results

first .

I think it was even less , $600 a month for three months , but when that happened I was learning not as freely , so constrained , right , it can straight brain . Sorry , constraint , like mentally , because you're like just get results , like it just get results , whereas you get much more flexibility and so on so forth from there and scale up as a result .

You know that's the goal with everything I'm doing is that to help you do that yourself before you come to me . But what I used to say to those guys , like , do you ? You've got an idea of what your program is ?

So we wanted to build something that was more than just like your Standard is how to tune a kick drum and make a synth . It was more than that . It was all about artistry and how to actually build yourself . Present yourself now , kind of . When he came into it , it was very much looking at the more technical side of things .

Well , I can help people make tracks , and when we focused on that initial transformation and after he really could you take your first remember it's always people to people , the person you take on . You've got this idea that you're gonna be working with like a client .

No , you're working with specific person , a who has all of these different problems and things , and now you're gonna try and what you can try and do them . So you have a general end point in mind and what teaches , like , break it down into milestones . So this is where you want to get them .

Like , let's say , you want to get them releasing music on labels or you want to get them , you know , touring themselves . Break it down . What are three things that you went through yourself ? What are three things that you went through that got you there ? What the milestones ? So break it down , because that's important as well . It's not just a there you are .

There's milestones along the way . I think you mentioned that about the bridging as well .

But the point is , once you refine your offer with that is , look , a lot of people , what they do and mistake they make is like they go , right , I'm gonna help people with this and that , and also the mindset and this , and then the fitness , and then they're off there like I'm gonna make it so valuable , whereas .

But basically what you're doing is you're building , so there's imagine there's also little rivers that you got across . What you're doing there is you're building a little bridge here . You're building a little bridge here because you can't give it that much attention .

And you're building a little rickety bridge here and , yeah , you might be able to help them , but there's all these rickety bridges , you can't get fit many people on it once . It's breaking all the time .

So once you've kind of refined your offer and you've have taken a few people through , you then realize , right , here's the river that I can really help people cross , for now I'm gonna make it fucking six lane highway that you can drive over in a sports car Like .

And now you've got a valuable offer because people are like right , I'm needs cross this river and we're gonna go to the person who's like Made all these rickety bridges , or the person who's literally giving me a highway that I can drive over in a Ferrari . I'm gonna go with that because that sounds fun and quick , you know .

So that's , that's kind of like the refining process , but in terms of like actually getting started , you really need to like , like you said , it's the learning .

Taking on your first clients is so important because you , you realize that perhaps you actually need to spend like an extra , like two , three weeks in a certain place and this needs work and you need to build out this and , holy shit , I didn't even think of that and actually we're not getting here . We're getting here , but this is way more valuable .

So you just learn so much and with helps with your positioning , you need to do it . You just need to do it . Have an idea . Don't be , you know , so attached to it . Have an idea of where you want to get people and then really really over deliver . Just spend as much time as you can with these people give , give , give , give , give , give .

And you , you're gonna get back so much from that because you're gonna learn so much about what people are actually struggling with and things that you actually you're like oh yeah , I really struggled with that . I really struggled with that and it took me ages to overcome .

But I forgot about it now , because once you know something like , oh yeah , well , I won't do that anymore , but you can exist , you can really exist with them again along that stage and that's gonna make you offer so valuable .

He was a CTO of coin , busy the fucking great saying which is Everyone's job as a CEO and the CEOs will everyone's boss , the CEO and the CEO and the boss Sorry , everyone's Boss is a CEO and the CEO is bosses to market . Okay , because fundamentally you've an idea with this offer , but it's gonna be the markets can determine it .

And how this hit me so fucking hard was because in early days of OX we were managing podcasts . So you'd manage your podcast . You know there's loads like Difficulties with how much take a time it takes , how it's , how difficult it is . So you're managing podcast and we did a decent job .

And I got a hit email from a guy I reached to and he's like no one gives a shit about managing podcast , they want to grow . He's like that's what I need . I need someone to grow the podcast . But we were growing it anyway . I'm saying we were managing Hmm , so we had to reframe it , redirect it , and said that we grow podcast .

Yeah , we manage it , we'll take it on , we'll take control , we fundamentally will grow it and that's open the entire door , right , because , yeah , people struggle with managing , but they also struggle with growing . But growing is a $60,000 contract . No , no , managing it is 10,000 thousand . Right , and that's how we've been able to determine it . I wasn't by me .

Yeah it was by someone who literally sent me a 20 line email . I had to go every . I actually plan to get back

to him .

We don't know what intention that guy put behind that email and in a way , it was kind of like a really loving thing to do 100% , which is interesting , and it's kind of like how we receive those things when they come in . Can we take a step back and go , right , this has come in , has come , we view it just as data , yeah , and we do that .

I think that's a real , that's a real valuable skill . To stay grounded with building online or just building anything . Can you stay grounded with data ? That's , you need to kind of live in there .

You , if you're viewing a visionary and you've got an idea , you need to live in the things that don't exist yet world , and then you need to come back to hard data to actually kind of help you inform and make decisions . You need both . You need both and I think this is a lot why I see online as well .

You have , like you know , I talk a lot about sort of vision and purpose and all this stuff and these really , really , really important , so a system .

So when people are , you know it open the clouds . This one is a for . It's like okay with this offer , with this positioning of also growing podcasts , we're making , you know , 50k a month . Yeah , what can we do to get it to a higher level ?

Yeah , it's part of the visionary it's having that we're first engineering 100% , but you need to look at the numbers , right , which is what mostly would fabricate yes , mine , or they're making it up or faking it or not true to it , or it's profit , or it's like its revenue to do a 10% margin . So whole shit , right , I'd like six co-founders .

Yeah , it's like always that kind of going on , but at the end of the day , that's where you bring people down to reality is like look at the numbers , look at the data , look at the feedback and that's what fun I'm gonna do what it is it's like we're talking about in the gym .

And as he just trend his way there , you can't hide that yeah , yeah , and like they got you , trends themselves there and pretends that he didn't drain and pretends to all natural yeah , feel like in his business as well , he's taking a few shortcuts . Yeah it's just making a few shortcuts here , there .

There's no shortcuts in life . There's genuinely not . There's things you can focus on and you can grow quicker , but there's no shortcuts . There's no shortcuts . You need to learn the lessons . At a question we were positioning was from that email . Was it literally just a positioning thing ? Did you change anything in terms of like delivery or was it just positioning ?

100% positioning ? That's awesome .

First you see the website and as a result , then people came in there like fuck it , we can't grow all . We also can manage all . We can't get our schedule right . Ah , so we were . We were Nearly selling the last outcome , which is to growth , but all the precursors , which is the recording and the managing .

We're all coming at the getter then , but because we do it , done for you model that we can take on all the other stuff and do design and so on , so forth , and that's how we can get people in . Yeah one thing that I admire about your content , which is like fucking insane is Like your branding and the positioning and so on , so forth .

So your story is like , as I mentioned to you , for like are like insane . It's the way you can tell your message to where you can get across your point of view . You share your values and your story and your principles and then you know , complement your business , compliments your brand and so on and so forth and like . That's obviously very intentional , right ?

I want to get your thoughts on your approach towards branding and how you think about branding and how you think about that altogether .

Don't just riff off on some things . Right , what ? What is the message that I'm trying to get across here ? Is it Digestible as well ? How can that best

resonate with someone ? But Also , in a way , I think a lot of like the online space , a lot .

You need to understand the aspirational identity of your avatar or your followers in general , which is usually Aligned with what your aspirational identity was , but it's also nuanced and it's different . So , like we said , you can speak to generalist terms and you couldn't .

You communicate principles that are going to help people get to a certain stage , so one it needs to be digestible . A lot of the things I see people do on stories in particular , you view it like a PowerPoint presentation in a way , or like a chapter , your daily chapter . Tell a story in a digestible session .

I see people at the moment particularly white girls at the moment who are like don't mean to get political , but then they're like free Palestine , free Palestine . Now I'm up for cocktails with the girls . Free Palestine , free . I'm like , well , okay , if you really , really , really really care , great , great , but like I can't see those things back to back .

Woo , like Jorain .

And I find that similar too when you meet someone who , online , are very abrasive , because an element of cash-retizing is like I think it's cash-retizing is that we can evoke an emotion by saying the opposite so don't watch this if you want to stay broke . Don't watch this if you hate your relationships . You still want to get divorced .

Don't watch this , right , so that evokes that negative response or like the opposite of like that dream outcome is the opposite of dream outcome . So then , when people are like that , they're trying to be like , oh , like virtue , signaling I'm very passionate about XYZ or I'm really interested in this , but in real life they live completely misaligned to it .

Right , that's , that is the issue , right , and that's where I see 99% of people fall down , because I would honestly say that it's like a handful of people that do it right , like there's Ross Harkness mentioned , dakota Robertson , gotti , jk , molina , obviously , like Emman Jack .

It's obviously other people too , right , but fundamentally , who are actually living in alignment with what they're saying , and then reverse engineering it and you can be intentional right , like if you speak , if you look at Dakota , the Dakota area he grew up in a trailer , trailer park , whatever his family were . Like smoking , meth , heroin .

He was working in the mines in Canada and he like sound like a copyrighting course on Twitter and then follow that and pursue it . Now he gets people to like a hundred a month writing because he did it and he does it every day and that's a gap ring . I like him . Gap rate .

Right is because I find it sometimes difficult to articulate that core message and get across , sometimes because it's writing right to persuasion , it's writing , it's difficult , it's multi factorial .

But someone like that , who has an extensive experience in writing I can bring this in is very kills it because , as a result , so the way that I would think about that is

artistry .

So you have the limitation of a paintbrush , but what you can create with a paintbrush and that palette of colors , you can make something beautiful . So you'll confine the limitations and then your creativity . You can then make artwork which communicates value or communicates an emotional you've never felt before . I mean that's amazing .

When you look at a piece of artwork or you hear a piece of music and you're like I'm feeling something that I have never , ever felt before , how that's amazing , that's art . So I believe that that needs to be taken in . So there's a few ways you can think about this .

I believe that needs to be in these daily stories that you're doing if you are really trying to communicate a message . And it's the same with when you play guitar , for example , you can play a series of three notes and that's correct . Now the you can master a scale . This is mastery .

I can master a scale up and down , I can know all the notes that I can play , I can play it correctly , I can see a bit of music and I can master it . But artistry is the next stage for me , it's the next stage of when . Ok , well , I've mastered it . Now how do I break the rules ? And that's what jazz is .

Jazz is basically like musicians who know about music like all jerking each other off because they're like , oh , you should have done that , but you did that instead . And it's like that suspense because , like , what's he going to do next ? Because he keeps breaking all the rules and for most people and to be honest , a lot of it sounds like like jazz .

Fusion can be a bit like is this music like it sounds , but it's playing with what you're anticipating and doing something different . That's essentially what jazz is , just over and over again . And then people are like , oh , but you can do that . Like these three notes you've mastered , you can play them in any which way .

Ok , I'm going to hold there a little bit longer . Well , I really want to accentuate that end point on this one . Ok , I'm leaning into that . How do I do that ? How do I set everything up around it to get that last note and that last note can be a part of your messaging .

And so comedians talk about this where I think is Chris Rock is an excellent example . There's a great interview years old now is between Richard Javais , jerry Seinfeld , lewis CK and Chris Rock and they just sort of have a comedians masterclass where they talk about their craft and I try and watch it like a couple of times a year probably .

It's like 45 minutes long . It's just a great conversation between comedians . It was always good when comedians talk because they're funny .

But one of the there's two bits of wisdom that I got from that interview and it's so valuable I really recommend that anyone goes and finds that , no matter what they think about Lewis CK and other stuff , that Anyway , there's ease of . I think he's funny .

He actually did a video where , as a skit , he pretended to go on a news channel and the skit was that he was like a professional wanker or something and it was like a Christian against him and then all of the things came out and it's everyone's commenting on that video like this didn't age well like at all . Anyway , the conversation between those four .

There's two really valuable insights . One the Chris Rock absolutely nails is he has a punchline . So he presents , he sets it up and he has a punchline . Okay , I'm not going to try and copy anything because I'm not a comedian , but he has a punchline .

What are all comedians do is they then move on to the next bit of the joke or the next bit of the skit , whatever . He then hits again from this angle and he takes a step back and he moves over here and he hits it again and he hits it again . And this is what your messaging is , this is what your marketing is .

It's the same punchline from every different angle . And when you can hit every different angle , every different experience , you then welcome more people in because they can resonate with oh well , that thing happened to me , or , you know , whatever it is , you're attacking it from all of these angles . Now , that's the bit of wisdom from him .

The bit of wisdom from Lewis CK is , when you hit the punchline and people are laughing and I think this is Jerry he says that , like Jerry , he learned this from Jerry Seinfeld you stay in the bit as long as you can .

So once you hit that punchline and you hit that energy , whatever it is , you stay in it as long as possible and if you watch his skits you can see him do this . He will have the punchline and then he'll do it again and then he'll like accentuate it in a certain way and people are laughing more .

So , going back to what we said with the marketing and the stories , stay in the bit , hit it from as many angles as possible and stay in the bit . Don't be like there's probably a little valuable nugget of wisdom that you're sharing that actually is going to change someone's life .

But because you now know it , you might assume that maybe everyone already knew that . Stay in the bit and just make the whole thing about that bit and then hit it again , and hit it again and then eventually you're going to the person who maybe didn't get it . They're like you hit them again by the third time . They're like OK , I get it .

That's the thing that resonated with me . So really , stay . What is the message I'm trying to get across with these stories ? Hit it , hit it , hit it , stay in it , stay in it , stay in it , fuck man that's so fucking interesting

.

I literally was like a nobody , still have nobody to mind To much degree , but it's like how anyone can do it , basically like how we started with a very low budget and so on and so forth . Right , when we do this poster not to do really well , but then we can kind of repurpose them in some way .

When we do it in a video or do it in text , we might do a podcast we tell that message . It relates really well because there's many people who want to start and do something . Well , it's content based . They don't have that experience , right , they think that they think you need the experience .

So look at someone like myself that's three years in , or someone is five years in or seven years in . They can never get to that stage and I find myself going back to that a lot of the time . Or how I can think of this too , is I like three or four core Principles that we lean into with great content . So one is the stories experiences .

So how did I feel when I was doing it , when I was starting out . So that's experiences , because your experiences are there . You can't fuck with them . My experiences are unique and so are yours , and all can question your experience , and he's on it Right . The second aspect is the challenges . So how does that on their own ?

So , leaning back into those core challenges that I had , the next is the transformations . So that transformation , how we repeat that transformation . And the last one then is the solutions . Which is the tactics , techniques , which kind of like relevant for now , but like hot , that's it .

Which is which , again , which , to your point , is it's not what you sell people on , it's how you build your authority . So that's how I build the authority , is saying like OK , here's all the flashy tools , but all the other stuff challenges , the solutions , transformations , which are get back into that as much as possible .

When something like that works , a lot of people don't go back to it . You get me ? Yeah , well , they like they already wanted two things . I said it's a jack , just a daughter . Do something different . Like , oh , look at me on a fucking yacht and it will go viral . They think . They think , oh my god , I need to be on a yacht all the time .

Yeah , we did that and they would see them as a lifestyle whore , right ? Yeah , as a result , they don't get what they want , which is like leads or business or broader someone or Something works really well , but they don't go back to it again , right , and I think that's where I'm deducing it from . You is like how we made that relevant .

Because that felt fucking good when that one kind of caught a little wind and it went a Little bit viral and I got more likes than I usually did . You're now asking how can I get more of that for me , me , me , me , me , me . Now the question to ask on that bit of content is right who did I help , who did I help ?

Or just we just always comes back to how can I serve ? Do it selfishly , like , because that's what's gonna make you successful is by helping as many people as possible . So when you see a bit of content like that or something's worked , how did that help people ask that question .

Try and replicate the help , and that might not be you on a yacht , that will be something different , but you can kind of get the same message into it and serve people that way . So I think it's the questions we ask . Ask better questions , get better answers .

But they're creative in a different way , like if you're solving problems , you're building a business like , you are an extremely creative person because you're finding solutions to problems , you're a creative person , you're a creator , you're creating something that didn't exist before but that often that word kind of has a lot of weight attached to it and kind of

attached to sort of like Aesthetics and like the artsy social media and having a big account or whatever .

The enemy is the information exchange and that's why he can keep that click and community right . Just sharing memes is not sharing fucking

lifestyle bullshit .

Okay , so in one of my favorite songs from the film Tarzan by Phil Collins , there's a great line in one of the songs there is in teaching , you will learn and in learning , it will teach . Something like that , and it's so , so true . Like I believe , in order to be , be a creator , be to thrive in business , you have to be both .

You have to always be a student and you have to be consolidating that knowledge . And when you can communicate and consolidate that knowledge in a way that helps others , now you understand it , now you really understand it in a way that can help many people . And you asked me earlier , like what some of the things I learned from teaching .

In teaching , there's five different periods and you're seeing about 150 people a day coming in one hour . Okay , next 30 people come in . Next 30 people come in . I'm . What's quite interesting about that is the .

I Might get this wrong , but I think that we're evolutionarily designed to have relationships for about with about 150 people tops , because that's References , like our tribes , etc . And that's what's . I'm all right . Is that what ? It is ? What's good number ? Very real done , buzzer .

Now , when you're dealing with 150 kids a day , has 150 people a day that you're dealing with , which is your threshold which is one of the reasons why I believe the teaching is so mentally taxing is because you do have relationships with each of those people and In order for you to exist and thrive with them for a whole year and beyond , you need to maintain

those relationships . And Look if , let's say me and you after this , I Said something to you that just seemed a little bit off and you're like well , why do you say that ? It might bother you ? You mean , you might be like I fucking whatever , but it when things happen to us and when we have Interactions , they take a toll on us . We have to process them .

So when someone says something , and remember it always comes from them . It's never , it's never , ever . You like , when you squeeze an orange , orange juice comes out , so it's always comes from them . Someone says something hurt for us because they feel hurt .

Miserable people do miserable things okay , so it always comes at that's a sign I but it always comes from them and it wants you realize that you're invincible .

But the point is that and you have to have a solid piece of mind to be able to deal with that but if you're dealing with 150 people a day and you have 150 relationships , when someone says something or you worry like did I say that Right to that person ? Okay I think I upset them a little bit .

But rather than just maybe two or three people that you're interacting with kind of deeply throughout the day , there's a hundred and fifty .

You kind of have to go back and you have to find a way of processing all of that and Filtering all of those things throughout the day , because that takes a toll on us as humans and I think that's one of the reasons that is why teaching is so Difficult .

Right , worldwide , all the CEOs are dickheads , it's not , it's just the fact that they just can't maintain relationships with people .

Yeah , but they were friends of people when they were small and there was more set up and then , as they grew , we just didn't have the bandwidth , the mental bandwidth , to do it , because the goal is obviously business or whatever , but in the teacher instance it's like they need them , not emotional , but the personal touch , which is what wears them out and breaks

them down into individuals . You

know .

I think this is interesting and I think this actually ties in nicely to Understanding persuasion and understanding People , because if you understand people and you understand persuasion and Again , a caveat here so really marketing , the goal is break the beliefs and Install new bit beliefs so that people and I don't like saying it like this , but so that people can buy

your product . That's kind of marketing . Now , if you have good intentions behind that , so if you're making something that's really valuable , or if you're , the question you asked when you made that product was how can I serve , not , how can I make lots of money , then you have a duty to break those beliefs . And that's what I believe .

Why I can speak so Firmly and confidently on certain things is because , like , I'm breaking these beliefs for you . If you're resonating with my message at all , then there's something in here for you . So is now my duty to break certain beliefs that you have .

One I don't care if you buy my product or not , that's not important but if I can break those beliefs , yes , a certain percentage of people will go ahead and buy my product . But that's that's now my duty , because it's intention . How can I serve ? Okay , how can I serve ? I believe that's that's good marketing .

I think a lot of marketing I see this a lot online is hey , do you want to know the trick I use to get you to buy my thing ? I'll teach you the same trick that I used . And this is where because influence is a dark art it's great power of being able to influence people .

You need to be responsible on the right , but you know , you look at , we could go all into conspiracy theories , like you know how the masses being influenced and for control and all of this , this stuff people on an authority , red people in authority .

Rough roads and smooth and smooth roads and rough , and I just think that , like , that is the part of the entrepreneur is doing something that's incredibly difficult . Different finding a problem to Finding a solution to a problem and being able to pull that out and selling .

And I feel like , with your journey , it's just been a continuation of taking the rough roads and trying to smoothen them out . Yeah how's it been for you ?

But you know , I think the entrepreneurs like you , you kind of want it . I kill our eyes gonna be difficult and it might not work . Awesome , that's exciting , you know , and it also , I mean the way the superior man , which is a great book . One of the lessons is in there is lean just beyond your edge . So lean , lean , just beyond your edge .

Don't like jump off . Yeah , me into it . I think that's what that is . Taking the rough roads , it's like right , well , that mountain Probably take it , yeah , and it's kind of that energy , you and that's the rough road , and then through doing it , you learn lessons along the way and da , da and .

But I do think you need to take that risk , you need to take that jump whatever it is you kind of need to . I mean , tony Robin says like burn the boats , doesn't he ? It's like you need to just take the risk and then kind of like , make it work and yeah , for a few weeks to do the endings .

And the wisdom comes in pain , right . So when he speaks someone that speaks you can get a lot from it , right ?

He's like okay , he's not this 21 year old money kid and he's in his 40s and he's focused on those different areas which would benefit him , right , I think , as we like evolved and I would love to get your like evolution that was your top process . What were some of those like limiting beliefs you had , even when you're in University ?

I know university , but as a teacher , that now I've been completely freed by what you're doing .

But you see these younger guys , maybe they get their heart broken and then you , the older guy , comes in and says , thank fuck , man , you're gonna now have the best two years of your life , like , and it's the same for all guys like , and nearly every guy has got their heart broken .

I know I have , and , but after that , like , I'm so grateful for it because that drive and that energy and everything that comes from that it always leads to like the best time of your life .

So it's like , well , when those pains do come in in your life , okay , this is gonna hurt , but yes , because this is gonna be an exciting time of growth change , right ?

Right , it's the fact that , because we're kind of at the , we're leaning in , that it's inevitable , where we constantly adjusting and constantly changing and the goalposts do shift from time to time , but you are basically allowing yourself to change versus just being stuck in Ireland .

Yep , you do the same shit as everyone else , but the same shit into your body as everyone else should .

it will .

There was a lesson you needed to learn there which meant that that relationship was never gonna work . So the pain , welcome the pain and See what the pain is pointing to . The pain is pointing towards a lesson . Okay , and try and learn that lesson without feeling necessarily is a huge amount of pain , unless you need to .

In terms of your question with what are some of the kind of limiting beliefs that I used to have and the transformation In terms of actually any limiting beliefs , perhaps some will come in over as I , as I speak , but One of , I think , the biggest limiting belief is he . It's just doubt . It's just like doubt in yourself .

So you need to give yourself evidence . So it's like Alex , when I was yeah , I worked . You self doubt , you need to give yourself evidence . But there is a hack , a Secret hack I'm selling for nine . I said , oh , there's a secret hack and I mean , maybe it's not secret , how bases ? It's something you can do and you can .

You can shift , you can change instantly . So this is I'm really really big on vision and because if you can craft a Powerful vision of who you want to become now this is where most people go wrong with vision .

What they do is they go right , I'm gonna create a big vision , I'm gonna have a vision board , and they put a fucking Bugatti on their screensaver and that's their vision . It's like you know nothing wrong with that . I don't . Maybe that works .

I don't have a buggy and there's no buggy on my screensaver , so , but this is this is where people go , in my opinion . This is . There's another element that people don't include . So you need to sit with yourself and you need to have a big vision for who you want to become now . There's two categories . First is external . So how do we experience life ?

We experience life mainly kind of in two ways externally . So , with all of the tools and senses that I've got through my ears and my eyes , okay , how am I experiencing what is happening right now ? Okay , so that's external data that I'm processing . So what data would I like to process in the future ? What external reality would I like to live in ?

So sit with that and write that down . Just go deep . What ? Who's where do I want to be ? Who do I want to be around ? You know what's the temperature like . Get specific . Like , externally , what do I want in my life ? Pull me up on the word one in a second . So , externally , what do I want in my life ?

Now , this is the second element that a lot of people Miss . So get detailed on that . That's important and that's where most people kind of stop vision board done . Next , internal , what's my internal vision for myself ? So you've stepped in this external reality . So how am I experiencing this moment right now ?

Is everything that's going on around me at the moment ? Okay , I'm putting this data , but also I feel a certain way . How do I feel between people in this room and yourself ? How do I feel right now ? Now , your feelings really drive your thoughts and , as we spoke about at the beginning , your thoughts drive your actions and your actions create your output .

So the hack , the thing that you can do today , is you can get clear on the external and you can get clear on the feeling of the internal . And when you get clear on that , you can start feeling that right now and when you start feeling that right now that changes how I'm interacting with you and to everyone that I meet today .

And when you change how you interact with everyone , your life starts to change . You can access people will see something different in your eyes you know , because you can be there already right internally

.

But , like internally , if you want to show it , be more positive or be like a nicer person or be like a gentleman , open the door , you can do this . Things now , yeah , it costs like zero and obviously all the other shit .

We think that the goal is materialistic , yes , whereas like to do your business , the ultimate goal is not necessarily like freedom , where it's obviously a big element to it , but it's about like the emotion you'll feel at that point where you can kind of get there now , at this point . And it's obviously ups and downs .

Right , you mentioned there about the desire , like the changing desire or the doubt . That doubt never actually goes away , do you ?

I doubted to keep it and then I doubted the systems at 40K and did you get me ? Alex from Mojito says you replace smaller problems with bigger problems . It's the problem solution continuum . Kennedy goes around , so you swap some problems for better problems and that is always the self-doubt . It's a part of who you are .

You get me , not unless you are , but like shit that will be happening to you over time , right , but you get better at it . Yeah , it's the same right , and you're swapping the problems , and that's why I think sometimes , as an entrepreneur , you can look at other small things in life as if it's meaningless . Alright . So I'll give you a good example .

If my electricity bill is like due , or I need to like replace the water , right , I'm like oh , fuck the water , did you get me ? Because I'm so used to bigger problems .

I'm so used to like making payroll , making sure all the salaries are paid on time and having the responsibility of them , please , making sure they're happy , making sure they're on a career trajectory and I'm getting them somewhere . So when the waters ran out , I'm like fuck the water , or like cleaning at home it's not the fact that it's not important .

it's the list of priorities change because my problems are bigger problems , which is completely fabricated , because it's your own perception of our problems are .

Seemingly you can catch a nice thought there sometimes . So I think it is important to sometimes do those things , but definitely not every day , like for the most part .

One of the interesting things about Dow , a perspective that I've kind of come to recently I heard this great analogy Like , let's say , you've got like a boy in the water or like a you know , a soccer ball or something in the water and you've got like some weights that are like pulling it down and so it's below the water .

What way can you get that ball to go to the surface ? Well , you can get underneath it and you can push and you can really really kick and you can get it up there , but it's probably going to come back down again .

So the self-dow often when we kind of level up , we've cut off a bit of the weight and just rises and like that's what I'm really interested in as an approach to everything . It's like right , what , what beliefs , what is it that needs to be cut ? And then it just rises .

So , rather than the power versus force , rather than putting the force underneath , pushing it , wearing your flippers , it's like right , what can I cut off ? And okay , and then it just happens .

I got to do all the qualification and messaging and so on and so forth and then you take like more clients , more clients , more clients . But then it's actually strategic partnerships a bit bigger , right , and you can cut the weight off and cut out this stuff . And so moving on to the next layer , and I like to call it as like chess and checkers .

But then when you start playing chess , it's some guys are thinking four steps ahead , some guys are thinking two steps ahead right , so it's just the way you position things on the chess board , move things around Again . You can only get to that point when you bang your head off the wall . You get me .

So that's where it's like the level of process is different for everyone , obviously , but you could look at someone doing 100k a month and think it's not possible . But it's also just like the levers you pull are just different . I think about that way sometimes .

But ask , like , the question you're asking there is like , right , how can I get to 100k a month ? But when you ask , right , what do I actually want to build here ? Like , why am I doing this ? What's my reason , why ? And now there's the thing I said to you the other day about sales calls . It's like what ?

So clients are going to pay me a bunch of money and then I'm going to spend most of my day talking to strangers . That doesn't make any sense . And as if I was a client for someone in someone else's program , whatever it was . And I was like , why did I pay ? You Talk to me please . Like , don't be just talking to strangers all day .

And obviously it's important at different stages in business . But question . So here's the question . And this is where creativity comes in . You solve a new problem . You ask the question what exactly is it that I would like to create ? Ask that question and get very , very specific about it . What exactly do I want to create ?

Well , I don't want to spend three hours , four hours a day on sales calls to strangers . I don't want to do that , okay . So what is it that I need to do in my marketing , in my messaging , that is going to solve that problem up front ? So now , now I'm asking different questions , I'm getting better answers , you see .

So it's rather that , it's again , it's power versus force , it's rather than right . We're more , more , more , more , more , more .

like a get clients in , do consultations and make a shit lot of money off it . And I said exactly that to him .

I was like let's reverse engineer it because , like you know , you're basically retired from what you could potentially do , which is elsewhere , which could be a group coaching or a program or courses or so on , as a for it and you could just live your ultimate retirement life and then still make 20 , 30 K a month versus building just out of , I would say nearly

fear . And I definitely did that Because I was like we get any client , then initially okay , the creators kind of broke anyway scrap them off , still do sales calls , so one is a for it . So that's maturity of business , right ? Same as fitness . My coach doesn't want me in the gym six days a week . He doesn't want me training tired .

He's won't be training when I'm not getting off food . He wants me to take things a lot more softer , more relaxed , because I've been training for 13 years and I'm not going to lose the muscle tomorrow , right ? So if I can only train three days a week , he wants to train three days a week . If I can't do cardio , he wants to walk you .

Right , because it's different levels of maturity at different stages in business and fitness and fitness and business at exact same right . So in podcasting you can't just jump into this . Shit is just effectively a waste of money . You go straight into this trade .

you have to start with the $60 microphone and earn your stripes , but you can only do that by getting to the stage . So that's where it's funny , because , like you're positioning and my positioning , I can't tell people to go going at the shore of Mike's right because it's not what they need .

If my purpose was to just sort of like walk through the mountains and like play flute like which is something I sometimes think about . Actually , I think it'd be quite cool just to climb to the top of the mountain . I quite like a little wooden flute . It'd be quite cool to just like sit at the top and people be like what's going on ?

That's like some mythical , anyway , as my daydreams . But I would always I'm always going to choose . Whatever the purpose is , I'm always going to ask that question right ? Am I on purpose right now ? If not , fuck it , because what's the point ? Like ? What's the point ? You know , I always choose to be on purpose .

Money's great and I do believe that money comes as a buy byproduct . That's just how it works . When you ask that question and this is why I'm so passionate about what I teach is like right , let's ask these questions first .

Right , rather than like , right , we're going to start my agency and once I've got that to 10k a month , then I'm going to focus on the thing I'm really interested in . It's like , okay , look , yeah , it is important to make money , but can we do both at the same time ? Like , let's ask the questions , can we make it work for both ?

And then you , luckily , you're doing both , and then you're probably going to make more money because you're on purpose .

And then the craft from the business comes back in here and there's like an authority piece there and influence piece there . That's been connected right . Fundamentally , that business will support this and vice versa . And then as this grows , whatever we can be the creator then and bringing sponsors and so forth . But it's like that's how you get it done , right ?

It's like I fundamentally just wanted a podcast full time and then the business then makes me better in the business because this is all the information that we talk about .

I always see on your podcast there's a little glint in people's eyes where you've asked them something , where they're like yes , I wanted to be asked that question . You know , and you're very , very good at that . You're very , very good at that and that's obviously a skill that you've developed .

And , yeah , it's really inspiring seeing what you've built and how it's like you hope sometimes you take some time out of the week to be like fuck , yes , like things are going really , really well , as well as the self criticism , which important to keep your accountable .

But I hope that you do spend some time in the mirror and you're just like yes , this is good because it is man , because you're fucking killing it , like , and I think it's important . I think we should all be our harshest critic and also our biggest supporter .

So when we arrived at Bangkok the other day , it was like fuck , this is sick Because , like you know , before I was like fun for my job or it's no , like I'm not , you know , I mean just 100% , just , it's just this right , which I think is quite interesting . But it's also the alignment but I think , was it why ?

Why we go to this length and like , why we're doing this at like I think there's very few people that will be doing it at this level ever , because my whole goal is like , instead of being the site hustle for is just to be the best , not the best in the world , to be one of the best in the world at doing one single thing and just have a zero focus .

And it's not egoistical , it's about developing like real skill and mastery . One thing , because I feel it's a massive disservice to the guests , to the audience , to the listeners , to every stumbles across my content , if I don't put in that much work . Like came here today and was like , so tell me about yourself .

I just feel like it's a massive disservice to you and like what you spent hours with us now . It's fucking awful and we're supposed to finish up . But does that make sense ? Yeah , so if you just take that and you think about that from a client's perspective , your prospects are progressive . Or whoever , you don't even buy for you , you just earn it for you .

And if you're giving them a disservice and Ross Harkness again mentioned him , again always talks about that he's saying like , why isn't it the best thing we're doing ? Why aren't you using the best studio you broke ? Okay , we can fix that , whatever but why aren't you putting it the best possible thing possible ?

If you can't fuck doing it , you know , be it , you've got to be it , we have to live everything . You have to live it though , because then that's what gives you the authority , and then the over time , then the experience will come right . Yeah , so that's what I even feel like in Boston like only done 180 episodes .

You know there's other people like but Chris Williams can just pass 700 .