Welcome back to the Doctor Wendywell Show on KFI AM six forty live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. Okay, I'm really excited to introduce my next guest because I'm going
to start by telling you a story. I was in Australia last week and I was having dinner with a group of people and one of my friends recently got married in September, and her husband is you know, it's sort of they wouldn't have met each other in real life if it wasn't for the apps, because they work in different industries, they lived in different part of the cities, et cetera. And I said, how did you meet? And she said, we met on a dating app that matches
you based on your musical tastes. And I thought to myself, really, like, that's the foundation for their marriage, is that they liked the same record. Well, I had to get her on the show. Not that woman, but the founder of finally, a dating app that matches people based on music compatibility. Welcome Rachel van Nortwig. How are you.
I'm doing well. Thank you for having me.
So you launched vinyally about six years ago, and tell me how you got the idea that matching people based on taysts in music would work.
Sure, So you know, by age six I had to fallen in love with my parents' records and started collecting vinyl, and by age fifteen I was hooked on live music. I've now been to over six hundred shows myself, and I was at one point married to somebody who was a less enthusiastic plus one when it came to seeing live music. And for me, you know, that's something that's so important as part of my lifestyle and my identity. There was men app like Vinylly, and so I set out to create one.
So how does it work? First of all, before we get into how did it works? Why do you think music compatibility signals life compatibility as far as you know, living together, sharing bills, raising kids, caring for each other. What is the common denominator with music?
So of course, you know there's so much that goes into a relationship, but you know, when you have a common bond, and a common bond that is something that's deep and tied to who you are as a person, that always helps right to have that kind of foundational appreciation for someone else. And so the great thing about
vinylly is. It's actually backed by science. So science has proven that shared music in relationship in relationships actually increases dopamine, it lowers the stress hormone cortisol, and it strengthens communication. So there's you know a lot of reasons right that you know, music can help and be helping in a relationship, as well as the fact that just in today's world, you know, it's the way that young people express themselves.
Daters have also said, you know, more than seventy percent of them said that if they did not match music with their partner, it would be a field breaker. So there's a lot of reasons that music is sort of the way for vioyly.
And certain genres of music are connected to certain cultural groups, right, the difference between say, rap, classical jazz, and country. They might be different people, although there are some people who appreciate it all, like my husband. But you know, it's interesting because when people are dating, it's very common now for them to like make a music list as according ritual and send it to somebody a Spotify list or what have you.
Was this kind of a takeoff on that, Yeah, So you know, when I was younger, we used to make mixtapes for you know, our friends or the people we were dating.
We put such time and effort into you know, how we order what it meant, even like how we you know, created artwork on the outside. And so you know, yeah, in a way, you know, finally is sort of a modern day version of that. You actually can you know, create playlists on the app for people to check out before they decide to push play on you, and you can share music, you know, back and forth. So yes, in a way, it's it's very much the same.
So it's interesting because I met my husband, you know, four and a half years ago. We got married in August, and I was doing a lot of long card drives because I have a farm in Oregon that I was remodeling and I do twelve hours on the freeway. And he was the first one to ever send me a playlist on Apple Music. And my initials are WW, so my nick name is dub and so the first playlist, which is called dub music, and I listened to and it was love songs expressing everything he was experiencing, and
then it became dubbed music. The next one came, and then young Dub music, stuff from my childhood that might be reminiscent that we must share in common, and then classical dub and then let's go disco dub and I probably have twenty different until it became wedding recessional songs for dub.
Wow.
So I understand this like he was expressing himself through the music and also showing me that he knew me and stages of life. And I happen to be I'm not. I'm not into music. In other words, I let the AI choose my playlist.
I just go.
If I get on a staremaster, I'm embarrassed to tell you this, Rachel. I get on a Staremaster, I just type in the word Beyonce and I get like Beyonce music. You know, it starts with to the left, to the level, and the next thing you know, it's all music for staremaster. So he though knows music deep. And when we were in Australia last week, we went to the Sydney Opera House to listen to symphony and he looks at me and he's like, I can't believe this chamber orc starts
doing Beethoven seven. They're like batting out of their league. And I'm like, I don't know what you're saying, but okay, it sounds good to me. So how does vinyly work. When people go online? Do they list their favorite artists? How does it work?
Sure? So, Vinyaly users can sink their Spotify or use our profile generator to sign up. We ask basic questions about what they're looking for, and then on proprietary algorithm produces matches. Right, so it's a pretty quick sign up. You can shuffle through matches or fast forward listening to playlists, and you know when you're ready to press play a match.
You can use our music conversation starters. And then lastly, without having to leave the chat, users can actually search, suggest and buy a concert ticket.
Oh that's great. So it's literally for music fans, but also for someone who's not a music fan to really get to know somebody's psyche by asking, by looking, you can actually go into their Spotify and see what they're listening to.
Yeah. Absolutely, you can see, you know, all of their songs that they've been listening to, and you can actually push play and listen to the music as well.
This is fascinating. I love it all right, Rachel. When we come back, there's another subject I want to talk about, which is how artificial intelligence is reshaping the online dating experience. Hopefully it's reducing the swiping because my thumb is nearly broken from back in the day. But let's have you weigh in on that. My guest is Rachel van Nortwick, founder of Vinyally. It's spelled Vias and Victor. I n why l l y Vinyally like finally, finally I met
the one on vinyly. I love it. It's a dating app that matches people based on music compatibility. All right, let's talk about AI. How can AI change dating experience? How start at the beginning? How can it reduce ghosting?
Well, that's a great place to start. So there's a lot of uses for AI, of course within dating apps, but one of the most important ones is for you know, the dating app developers to implement AI, uh, you know, for you know, prevention of ghosting, of bots, of cat fishing, like, there's just that there's a lot of ways that they can implement you know, AI to to protect people, uh from you know, people that aren't actually on the app to try to meet someone. Now I'm saying that from
just uh, you know, that's a ghosting. That's you know, built by uh, you know, a bot, not by you know, it's not ghosting of somebody who you're just chatting with and then they decide not to talk to you anymore. So there's there's ways that you know, we can be responsible as developers. Then in terms of ghosting, listen, it's it's tough. You know, it's tough out there when you're talking to somebody and then all of a sudden, you know, the line just goes cold.
I think heart breaking, heartbreaking when someone just and I always say to people, you know, if somebody doesn't have the relationship skills or the communication skills to say, hey, it was lovely chatting with you, I don't think romance is in the cards for us. But you know, good luck in the future. If they don't even have that basic skill to say goodbye in a polite way, then you are saved from them in a relationship. Thank good goodness they ghosted.
Because yes.
Now, so, first of all, is artificial intelligence being used yet in the dating apps?
Yeah, so we were the first actually to uh, you know, go out with AI in the app, and so we decided to do it in a fun way we use AI to let users replicate like buying drinks in real life, but in the app you get to blend you know, your genres that you like as well as the matches genres and create like a bespoke cocktail and it's fun. You can send it. It's actually like a complete recipe with instructions and you can then also, you know, if you went on a first date, make that in real life.
So we used it, you know, for for fun. But there's also ways that you know, we're implementing a I on that will be rolling out that other dating apps used too, which is just helping, you know, helping with your matches. Right, so you know, we think that we're good at, you know, identifying who would be a match for us based on swiping or on our app. You know,
it's going through the matches and pushing play. However, there's sometimes when actually, you know, AI can be helpful and provide matches to you that you may have overlooked but that actually proven over a larger database would prove out to be a good mesh for you.
So they're basically like your mother telling you this is the person you should date.
I guess. How about like your best friend with that.
So basically the algorithms, you know, I sort of joke sometimes that TikTok algorithm is so good that it knows your soul, right, I mean, it's probably listening to our conversation right now, it's listening to everything, and then it provides you exactly the videos that you need to help yourself at that moment. So you're saying, artificial intelligence and dating apps can figure out really who you are and what you need and be able to provide the right people for you.
It can help. I think it's you know, listen, I think there is still very much a human effort that you know, we shouldn't try to actually you know, go away from right. So it's important that you know, I feel or a user feels like they have control over their matches. But where it can be helpful is, you know, I can't or we can't see across you know, the rest of the people on the app to understand where maybe you know, a better match might be. But that's how AI can can be helpful. So I think use
the right way. It's a great addition, but I think it's still important for users to feel like they have control over their actions on the app.
So I always say that finding a good mate is partly biological, being physically attracted to somebody, having the right pheromones to have good compatibility biologically, then psychologically having a good attachment style to be able to form a secure attachment. And then there's the social and the dating apps have done the social really well. You know, the income, the zip code, the geographics, you know what somebody does for a living, whether they're what they eat, whether they're vegan
or carnivore, what their politics are. The social piece. I find the dating apps has done a really good job at can a I work in those other areas psychological and biological.
I think so, I think that there are opportunities for it to be implemented responsibly. I think that you know, AI can tell us things about ourselves that maybe we aren't actually either aware of or you know, don't lead with. So I think you know, whether you're on a dating app or in real life. My advice always is to date intentionally. Make sure that you know you know what's
important to you, don't waiver. It's easy sometimes if you've been on dating apps for a long time and you meet someone and they don't quite say all of your characteristics, but you're just so you know, you're just trying to meet someone that you kind of compromise. It's not worth it. And so I think, you know, AI can kind kind of you know, be a north star and provide you with you know, the these are the types of matches you should go for based on you telling us you know,
this is what you want. And I would say that's a great that's a great guide. But it's just something for us to I'll be conscious of.
You know, you talked about intentional dating, and I often use a term rational love, meaning that if we allow always our instincts. Now, some of us have great instincts. We come from a healthy, happy family, We have a
secure attachment style. Trust our instincts, but they are another you know, forty to fifty percent of the population who have an anxious attachment style and avoidant attachment style, and literally their attraction takes them right back to the scene of the crime, the person who will actually hurt them.
And so we need to learn rational love, which is intellectually this is what I need, and I'm going to make myself choose this good person instead of this you know what I perceive to be a high value mate who's just going to be a player and hurt me in some way. And I hope that AI I can start to present that to people, and I bet ya.
So my theory is that AI is going to get so good that they'll be able to actually predict people's romantic attachment style based on frequency of texts, the kind of words they use in the text, how long of texts they write. It's very obvious to me when I see people that it's so it's so obvious their attachment style. So I bet you AI is going to figure it out pretty soon too, which is cool. So Rachel that where do people find vinyly.
So vinyally is available both on iOS and android. It's also if you want more information, it's on vinyleapp dot com and we are in the US, UK and Canada.
So whether you're a music fan or not, it sounds like vinyly might be a new way and a fun way, especially if you have an AI robot making you cocktails to find a mate. Thank you so much for being with us, Rachel Van Nortwick of the dating app Vinyally that matches you based on music tastes you have been listening to The Doctor Wendy Waalsh Show on KFI AM six forty. I'm here for you every Sunday from seven to nine. You can also find me all over the internet,
but come on to the social media. I'll see you on Instagram at Dr Wendy Walsh. It's always my pleasure to be with you. You've been listening to The Doctor Wendy Walls Show on KFI AM six forty Live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app.