Welcome back to the Doctor Wendy Wall Show on KFI AM six forty live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. Well, I told you he was coming. I teased it, I promised it. I have the official, the real Yes, Tony Porter here from a Call to Men. Tony, thanks so much for being with us.
Thank you, Doctor Wendy for having me.
I'm going to embarrass you because I'm going to read a little bit of a resume in case there are people out there who have not heard your name. I think they're two living under a rock somewhere in the world. So here we go. Tony Porter is an author, educator, and activist who works on many social justice issues. He founded an organization of called A Call to Men that helps promote healthy, respectful manhood. I love that and many
men look up to him. He is a consultant for the National Football League, the NBA, the NHL, Major League Soccer, and even has talked at West Point and around the world world. If you have not seen his Ted talk, it is amazing. Look him up Tony Porter and it's one of the top ten Ted talks every man should see. He's the author of the book Breaking Out of the man box. Thanks so much again for being here. Let's talk about why you think this topic is so important right now.
Well, it's important for many reasons right now as we go into the future as men, you know, we continue to have an epidemic of violence against women and girls here in the United States of Americas, has stated by the Center for Disease Control. We know that fifty percent of excuse me, thirty percent of women who are killed or killed by their husband, boyfriend, or partner. We know that we live, unfortunately in a rape culture. We know that one out of four women will be such the
assaulted during her four years and college. So when you think about violence against women and girls, and while the majority of men don't perpetrate the violence, the problem is with silent to the violence, and it's happening on our watch. And it's related to what we call the man box that are called to men, the collective socialization of manhood, as men would taught collectively to have less value in women, to view women as the property of men, and to
view women as objects, particularly sexual objects. And again, while most men don't perpetrate this violence, with silent to the violence, and that's a youth.
Problem you know you mentioned these statistics about sexual violence, rape assault. I've been very open in my many years doing media that I am a survivor of domestic violence, and I want to tell everybody that it crosses all social, racial,
and economic lines. In fact, probably hear less about the domestic violence that happens in higher socioeconomic households because the walls are thicker, the lawns are stretched out, their neighbors aren't hearing the screaming, etc. And they're less reportable because of the social shame around it all. But I just want to say to any woman who's out there who may be listening, is that this is never your fault,
and it happens to twenty five percent of women. One in four women will experience domestic violence in their lifetime, and there's nothing you can do to prevent it. This is what Tony Porter is doing with his organization A Call to Men, which is helping to get men to stop this problem. Tell me about forming the organization A Call to Men? When and why did you create it?
Created twenty three years ago myself and the other co found the Ted Bunch. We were both working with men who were abusive and what we realize is what we were talking to teaching and in aging men who were abusive. And these are men who were sent to us by the courts. The time we were spending with them and the things we were talking to them about, we realized we needed to talk to all men about this information, that it wasn't just the men who were abusive that
were the problem. In essence, we all had a hand in it through our silence. So it was by way of that that we decided to start a call to men to no longer just work with men who were abusive, but to work with all men.
So what can those other men do? What do you suggest with their if they break out from their silence? Is it about when they hear something or see something, how should they react?
Well, that's part of it, you know. Part of it is how we react in the presence of violence. But equally important to our work at a call to men is preventing the violence going upstream and prevent the violence from happening at all. And that really speaks to the teaching of men, boys, what it means to be a man, and reteaching ourselves is men, what we've been taught that it means to be a man. Again, we've been taught to have less value. We've been taught women at the
property of men. We have been taught women are objects, particularly sexual objects. Is the reteaching of what it means to be a man, this collective socialization of manhood. So our work is really rooted around preventing the violence.
So what are the hallmarks of healthy manhood in your mind?
Well? And yet, and before I even share about that, these same rigid notions of masculinity, they're not only fostering this epidemic of violence against women and girls, they're hurting men as well, and so men, so so much of what we're taught that it means to be a man is men don't ask for help. That asks me for help is a sign of weakness. That's fostering an epidemic of issues with we as men as well. Be it our mental health, be it our physical health. This inability
to ask for help as men. And you couple that with the lack of emotional intelligence we have because as men, we're taught to shut down our feelings and emotions at a very early age. The only emotion we give each other permission to express is anger. So we have a lack of emotional intelligence and this inability to ask for help. When you put that together, you can see the mental health challenges it's created for we as men. We know that approximately six million men every year go undiagnosed for
anxiety and depression. We know men complete suicide four times that the rate of women. We know men don't practice preventative health care medicine. We know that men who are partners are actually healthier than men who are single, and it really has nothing to do with the man is more about that partner in his life. So this thing around help being taught that help is a sign of
weakness is really killing us as men. So the things that we're talking about right now, and not only fostering and epidemical violence against women and girls, they're also hurting men as well. So when you ask about what are some healthy masculinity, healthy manhood solutions, one is embracing our full range of emotions. That is okay not to just talk about anger, but to talk about fear, to talk about pain. As men, we talk about the importance of value on women in our lives and that women are
not the property of men. To stop using denigrating language, and to such as it relates to women to challenge harmful messages in respect to gender. All right, that is okay to hav an interest in the experience of women and girls, and now particularly teaching this our boys, that it's okay to have an interest in the experience of women and girls. Of sexual conquest is not a goal. And of course, as I mentioned, asking for help is not a sign of weakness, is actually a sign of strength.
Tony Porter, we got to go to a break, Tony Porter of A Call to Men. When we come back, I want to talk about how our culture is finally starting to spread. Your message from Ted Lasso to comedian Bill Burr will touch on it, as well as your partnership with the biggest Latino dating app. My guest, Tony Porter, founder of A Call to Men, has been teaching healthy manhood for decades. I don't know if you've seen Tony.
Last night, I watched a new Netflix comedy special by the comedian Bill Burr, who is a normally loud, raunchy, angry comedian, and he talked about how the death of his friend caused him to start to connect with his wife and eventually his feelings and he talks about how the only two emotions men are allowed to feel are fine and angry, and when he actually sat with these feelings wrapped in a blanket, how much better he felt
just by allowing himself to experience it. I also noticed Ted Lasso just got picked up for a third season, and that certainly is one TV series that's working to break out, helping many men athletes in that show break out of the man box. Do you think our culture is finally hearing what you've been screaming from the mountaintops for a few decades.
You know, we're having some wonderful examples of that. You gave two and both examples you gave. Also, I know we're going to talk about Chispa, the dating app for the LATINX community, what we're trying to do at a call to men, And again the examples you gave are excellent examples of using culture to impact culture. Right that, of course, we can teach him in school and other places.
But you what's out there already that people are really invested in and making use of and is not going anywhere, by the way, how do we use culture to impact culture? So when we find it in the Entertainment Committee and places like that is very, very helpful. There's a new Netflix mini series called Adolescence. I believe that really really leans into what we're teaching boys about what it means to be a man and many of the challenges that comes with that.
I'm glad that's happening. I notice you use the term the man box, and of course the famous international study called the man Box I teach in my developmental psychology class. What I find interesting is that you have partnered with Chispa, which is the largest Latino dating app, to help men of a certain culture break out of their own version of the man box. What is the man box and what do Latin Why do matt Many Latin men feel more trapped in it.
Yeah, in the Latin community they call it machiese mo. And I got to be honest with you, I don't culturally believe that LATINX men are more tracked in it than other men. I believe each cultural group has their examples of it, and we're all caught up in it. In that box, men are taught to be tough, strong, courageous. Again, less value in women. Women as a property. Men don't share their feelings or emotions you know that you can only be heterosexual as a man. You can't be gay, queer,
any of the likes. Men must always be in control. There's no space for vulnerability. Again, the only emotion that we can express is anger. We have to be aggressive, show no weakness, no fear. Young men today talk about that you can't be soft as men. So there's a lot of of in this box. The ingredients in this box in many respects are holding us hostage, and we as men are the ones that primarily hold each other
hostage to the box. And what's really key in this box it leads very very little space for men to be their authentic selves. We have to be a role self worth, a whole self.
So after the next break, I am going to share some of the tips that your organization, A Call to Men, has come up with when partnering with CHISPA. So I will go through don't go away people, Gus. I will go through ten tips for men really not just Latin men, for men to use on dating sites to have better luck in having an authentic, healthy relationship. But before we go, Tony Porter, I've got to ask you. I know you have spoken to the most masculine groups of men on
the planet from the NFL to West Point. How has our current political climate impacted your work here in America?
Well, you know, our political climate is really not much different than whether we're talking about sports organization or other spaces men men where you find men, where we congregate. You know, we take a couple of steps forward, we take a couple of steps back. That's the work of social justice, social movement work. You know, the political climate is just another example of the work that's in front of us as men to do well.
I want you to keep up with the good work that you're doing. Earlier in the show tonight, I was talking about the World Happiness Report that just came out and that America has sunk out of the top twenty down to twenty four, and those Nordic countries are way there at the top. And you know, my daughter spent some time studying in Sweden that I visited her a couple times, and I was amazed to see how many tattooed, musclely bearded men were wearing babies around and hanging out
in groups of guys changing diapers and coffee shops. And I realized it was partly because of what the government there does. They make both partners share in the time off and get paid for parental leave. It's not called maternity leave. It's parental leave, and both partners have to take a piece of it. Do you think we'll ever get that there in America?
We might not be where there are, but we have examples of it. I mean, I remember the time when we didn't have changing stations in men's bathrooms. We have those today. We have you know, the backsacks of front sacks that men use carrying I see it's not abnormal to see men moving around the country with a baby on their front or a baby on their back. We have those, you know, we have our examples of those.
You might find some countries, of course, that are further a law the game than we are, but we're in it as men. We work a lot with men and fatherhood programs and where men are really learning how to not just coach our children, but to nurse our children, and to love our children, and the importance of being loving with our children and not just coaching. And and we have paternity leave here in our country for men.
I just had a staff member that was just on a male identified staff member that was just on three months fraternity leave, and so we have our examples of it. Some countries maybe further along, and some countries are not quite where we are. But I've been doing this work for twenty plus years. I'm blessed to have seen some examples, many examples of change is taking place here. And I've spent many places abroad and so in other places as well.
Tony Porter, a pleasure to meet you, founder of A Call to Men. Thank you for being with us when we come back.
Thank you.
I've got news from his group, A Call to Men and the Latino dating site chis but ten tips for men on how to use dating sites and apps for success. You're listening to doctor Wendy Walls show on KFI Am six forty were live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. Right now, let's go to the twenty four hour KFI Newsroom