Poetic Tattoos & Self Reflection with Robert Ryan

another way of like recognizing the self. And there's there's an actual death ritual in their initiation, like a symbolic death that you must go through to become a Masturmason. Welcome back to Kesha and the Creepies today. I am very excited to welcome my next guest. This is Robert Ryan. He's an amazing artist, tattoo artist and friend. How are you. I'm doing well, it's great that do you What else would you like to add to your job description? My resume?

What's your resume? A visual artist that happens to have a temple for Lord Shiva in his backyard in New Jersey, which you're sitting in right now. I think right I'm

sitting in the temple right now. You can see there's this Shiva lingam is right behind me and uh next to me, and some of the things that we've talked about before, um, when I was tattooing you and just friendly conversation, I had to do with some of you know, like the traveling that I had done spiritually or some of the pilgrimages that I need, So that that's definitely an aspect. But primarily I'm a tattoo artist from New Jersey, but you're so much more than just a tattoo artist

from New Jersey. Being a tattoo artist from New Jersey is a pretty high It's pretty high in the evolutionary cheam that you have to go through to become just that. Man, It's like, it's insane. Well, you're the finest tattoo artist in New Jersey. How have you been holding up during this insane time? It's actually been the most productive, most beneficial time in my life, which I feel kind of guilty saying. But I don't feel guilty saying it at all.

You know, I'm not The suffering that we're all going through collectively isn't lost on me, but you know, I'm trying to use it to temper my own awareness in life. I have not stopped going and going and going for since I was twenty one years old, and it just was such a crazy experience. Getting used to not being really really stressed out every day was so weird, and I'm still adjusting to it. Like waking up and not being in a panic feels really strange. Yeah, yeah, I

don't know. I feel the same way as you. Like, it's not lost on me that this is a horrible time for a lot of people and there's a lot of loss and a lot of grief, but being able to be with myself for a moment has been beneficial, I think. Yeah. I think also the sobering factor of like, you know, like we're always kind of trying to dodge

the inevitable of death. You know, it's like a tiger that's like waiting in a bush our entire lives and we know it's there, but we kind of tiptoe around it and then like to have it kind of like just knowing that, like there's a very good chance that you're going to be infected with a disease that could kill you anytime you leave your house, and to put something in a different kind of perspective where the mundane or banal or like trivial can become very extraordinary, you know.

Or the simple things in life you can find like a lot more value and things when you're able to see it through that kind of filter. For me, I'm appreciating every little thing so much more. And also, weirdly, I've had this urge to just get rid of most of the stuff I've accumulated over the past twenty years, and I've finally opened a box and being like, oh my god, I remember that from when I was nineteen

years old. I haven't seen it since now, like selling my stuff on eBay, because it's bringing all the people that I would be on tour with, like they have a little tiny pieces something that's from my history, and it's making space for newness. Yeah, it's like spring cleaning and uh, it's also like an audience on all the things that we accumulate through life when whenever we get a chance to do that, I think it's like, it's very surprising, you know how much things kind of just

attached themselves to us. Well, I love stuff like I love like so many pairs of shoes, I have so many couches, I have a lot of cats. But I'm keeping the cats like I just my mom put it in a really funny way. She's like, well, we used to um hunt and gather. We're just really good gatherers. And I was like, oh, yeah, I'm like a plus gatherer. Yeah.

We don't really have to hunt too much anymore, you know, like the meals are prepared for us, so we can you know, like everything's accessible and I'm market but we still have that urge to gather. Oh, I can gather like a motherfucker. So for those of you listening, I've gotten two tattoos from Robert. One is on my foot. It's a rainbow and clouds in an eyeball, and he also did the blue tiger crawling up my ribs and that was the most painful thing in the entire world.

I love both of the tattoos. You gave me feel really special. They feel magical, and it's hard to describe because I didn't realize kind of the gravity of how spiritual a tattoo can be. For me. It was just kind of a fun thing I would do. If I was having on a fun night, I'd get a tattoo. Is more like party scars or fun memories, and like getting a stamp on my wrist of like that was that night that I had so much fun and then I met you and Brad was telling me all about

Dan Higgs. And there's a whole lineage behind what you do and the kind of tattoos you do. They're classic, but they feel spiritual and they look spiritual. Maybe it's because I know you, but they feel like their own genre. Obviously, I'm not a tattoo artist, so I don't know the terminology perfectly, but I feel like you've kind of created your own style. Yeah, thank you, thank you for saying that. Um. Yeah, but it is part of the lineage of tattoos that

in America. We'll go back even further, we'll go back to tattooing and it's origin, you know, which I think goes as far back as the oldest remains had had markings, had tattoos, you know. So, Um, the Iceman was one of them. The mummified body that they found, he had like different markings and those were more to represent maybe if he had any kind of ownership of land or perhaps what he did, like if it had something to

do with agriculture or something like that. But it's still with symbolism, you know, and uh, I think the intrinsic desire to mark one's body kind of goes back to

the very beginnings of mankind. And it's not always in tattooing, you see it, you know, with through like makeup or face painting or piercing, or sometimes they'll put things underneath their skin, you know in certain tribes, or you know, like a you know, at a disk in the nose or things like that, and it's just like a decoration of the temple, you know, of this temple being the body.

And so I think there were some American tattoos that were able to kind of tap into that same kind of energy without it becoming like to I don't know, like they weren't trying to be these like modern primitive kind of tattoos where that kind of came a little bit later, but they were still tapping into that like kind of primal raw energy. And the thing that was like kind of struck me about them and how I kind of like fell in love with this lineage and

then was eventually like kind of initiated into it. Where these guys that weren't they weren't military tattooers, they weren't like sailors, and they weren't like greasers or hot rod guys, and they weren't like rock and roll guys. You know, they were just like these kind of like almost beat poet kind of philosophical people that started tattooing, you know,

so I call them like the poetic tattoos. So guys like Tom de Vito and Dan Tiggs and Nick Boubash and stuff like that, philosophical kind of tattoo artists or poetic where you know, there's different kind of poetic tattooing and other kind of looks too, But I feel like it's almost like that I kind of associated with the beats, and then maybe you know, before the beats, the dada, you know, it's using the symbols, but then also obstracting them.

So there's some abstractions and involved as well. And it's just like it's basically just not coming from these these genres that have always been in tattooing, like the sailors and the greasers and the hot rod kind of people,

or you know, there's all different kinds of stuff. Um, but yeah, there's people that were maybe looking for tattoo is maybe the kind of more focus on themselves rather than align themselves with a certain kind of occupation or you know, patriotism or something like that, right, because sometimes I would see The first time I got a tattoo, by the way, was when I was in Cuba and I was walking around. My brother was like, you can't go to Cuba, and I was like, well, now I

have to go to Cuba. So I went to Cuba through Mexico, ended up walking around. I was supposed to be studying Spanish. I was not studying. I was studying how to run around and get sucked up and do crazy ship That's what I was there studying. And this guy was trying to sell a couch and I was like, I can't. I don't need a couch, but do you have anything else cool? And he was like, do you want a tattoo? And I was like sure. So that's what my first tattoo was. I went up into his apartment.

He boiled the needle in a pot. He was holding a baby tattooing at the same time, and that's my first tattoo. And ever since then I was like, oh, this is like really special. It also helps jog my memory on my life more so, than anything else, Like more so than looking at pictures. I can look at a tattoo and be like, oh, that was that time. So it's almost like my timeline of my life is

on my body. The other amazing mild markers for where you've been and where you're going, you know, and like and you know, like, I think they're really good to reflect onto. Yeah, some of the mine suck. I was gonna say mine too. And I never trust anyone that doesn't have a bad tattoo because true part of the evolution, and the people that only have good tattoos usually are kind of like more coming out of as the fashionable aspect, which I don't being wrong with, but they might not

be trusted. There there's psychos. I can think of one person. You're totally right. He's a complete psycho, but he only has perfect tattoos. I would have to agree with you. All his suits are probably folded perfectly. Cloud and the like American psych go the best business card. It's so true. Well, then I'm really trustworthy according to that. If you're going by that, then I'm like the most trustworthy because I

have so many like shitty tattoos. Because I met actual good tattoo artists only in the past couple of years of my life. Before that, it was just like a ship show. Can we go back to your first tattoo for because like that experience sounds incredible, you know. For one, it's the couches again following you, Like these couches are like magnets to you. And then the guy was boiling the tattoo needle and like that was the second you know, offering to you, like I can give you a couch.

You don't want the couch, I could do a tattoo for you and a child. It's like and not your conventional tattoo first tattoo experience, which I loved, you know, I think it's it's it's magic. You know, it was magic. It was super magical. And I did Cuba. I used to be so cool. I got an anchor that one I think holds up, but some of the other ones on my feet, like one on the same foot that you tattooed. That's just like mush. It turned to mush, like immediately, I'm just gonna let it live. What else

can you do? You can go over it, I guess, yeah, you know, or just move on. Just your body it's true. Who cares, It's just going to disintegrate and turned into probably like a mushroom at some point. So whatever. If we're lucky, yeah, if we're lucky because you're in your temple, do you mind talking about you said Shiva's behind you? Yeah? Yeah. The Shiva Lingham is the main altar in the temple that we worship here, and that's the un manifested version

of Lord Shiva, the god Shiva. And loose interpretation, or it's actually pretty precise interpretation in English, is the consciousness of infinite goodness. So the sea Lingom for people that are listening, I'll just describe it more more than look at it. It's the shape of an egg, and it's it contains all the aspects of universal consciousness within it, you know. It's like the egg. It holds any kind of potentiality, any kind of awareness can be accessed through

the consciousness of infinite goodness. And at its face is what's called the yoni. So it's a male female single you know. So the yoni is the base and the male which have kind of a fallus shape. A lot of people get really attached to that idea. It's not it's just one of the it's you know, because it's symbolizing all consciousness. It has a male and female, but also has nature and consciousness. It also has cosmic and

you know, the terror form any of the dualities. You know, terror form the earth Earth, so you know it's it's of the earth, but it's also of the of the cosmos. It's you know, of the water, and it's also you know, of the dry land. It's it's of the day and of the night. It's of the males, of the female, it's of you know, it unites all those, all those kind of concepts because it's none It represents non dual bliss. So it's when the male and the female aspects are united,

then you have the consciousness of infinite goodness. That's beautiful. Is it kind of like a yin and yang kind of thing? Absolutely? Yeah, No, it's absolutely the same thing as the saying it's a stone too. I should mention it's understood this one of the oldest things that have

been worshiped on the planet. You know. Someone just kind of started reflecting on the idea that that the stone was consciousness, you know, and from there kind of developed further and that is part of like your religion or your spirit actuality, or just your consciousness. Would you call yourself religious or spiritual? Yeah, any of those things apply. Um, Honestly, the worship of the Lingham is self inquiry. The worship is actually consists of bathing Millingham in different kinds of

space and offering flowers to it. And each stage of the worship is a representative aspect of your own spiritual path. And as you go through this process, you start to reflect on your own life in the worship of the stone, so you start to see yourself. You see the consciousness within yourself as the consciousness and the stone. I don't think my consciousness is there yet. I don't think my

consciousness understands. I want to understand, but I don't think. So, you see yourself in the reflection of a piece of the earth. You're bathing your own self. And I'm saying self, not as the body as you you know, but your own self with the capitalists, you know, your true self, your your your soul. It's representative of bathing your soul as your bathing the stone. And you bathe the stone every day, right, Yeah, Because when we were there, we

were talking about it. I remember that stuck out to me that it's something you take such good care of and you treat with such respect. It's not an animal or a baby, it's a stone, but just the level of respect and time can you developed love for it? And you're as you're doing that, you're training yourself should come out of the autopilot, come out of the heady kind of like judgment of the self and questioning of the self and the data yourself, and you you start

to love yourself as you love the stone. You know, if you're seeing yourself in it, you're bathing yourself, You're seeing the reflection of your spiritual pursuit in the stone. It's a symbol, you know. I feel like for me at least, that's one of the hardest parts of being a person as self love. Like the way I speak to myself. I would never talk to somebody else as mean and link just impatiently as I talked to myself. It's one of the things I try to work on

in therapy. But just like having like compassion for yourself the way you would have it for a child or

an animal or anybody else. Yeah, So so in the philosophy you know, the same philosophy, which is non dual Shudism, is when I'm following this lineage, it explains those feelings that you're having for yourself when you're hard or yourself and when you're doubting yourself, and all those things they assign like that their demons, personal demons, you know, and each one of them have names, and one, you know, there's a name for self conceit and there's one for

self deprecation as well, you know, and those are two like really heavy aspects of a lot of that we all do to ourselves, you know. Either we can be conceded and puffed up and arrogant, or we can be self deprecating, which is also very egoic. So all these things happened through the mind. So when when we're when I'm doing this bathing of the stone, is trying to get out of the mind and start opening up the heart. I think you said this. I might be quoting you

at you, but so excuse me. If I'm quoted, are you adding me? No, there's somebody said it, and it may have been you, I'm not even sure. But the true piece and the goal is to come directly from the heart. I hope I said it because it sounds good, but I don't think. But but yeah, it is, it's and it's a heart opening thing. And these things like it's crazy what I'm talking about. I'm talking about bathing

a stone every day. It sounds insane. These are things that aren't to be understood through the mind, because the mind is where all those complications come from. You get past the mind and you start to develop the consciousness and then the true self, you know, and then you start to see that in everything, not just yourself. You see it in your lover, you see it in your family, you see it in your coworkers, you see it and every instantaneous interaction that you have in the world. You

start to see that consciousness and everything. And definitely I said earlier that the normal and the kind of mundane become extraordinary, you know, extraordinary, everything becomes charged with this love, you know. So it's you're building the love up through this discipline of pouring water and milk in flowers over

the stone. I think that's so beautiful. And even just having a conversation with you, I'm not in the same place as you, but I feel how present you are being and how present I'm being, and for anyone who's listening, it's just like being here now, is this is it? Like this is the gift, this is life, and just taking a second to appreciate it. I guess, so thank you for taking the time to be here. And I just have to I have to keep reminding myself during

this quarantine that like this is this is it. I'm not running towards or from anything, Like I'm just right here talking to somebody that I think is badass and I respect a lot, and I just I don't know, is that to stop in be present for a second, because anything else is total annihilation, you know what I mean. Like the past is annihilated as soon as it becomes the past, and the future is annihilated because it hasn't happened yet, you know, it's into That's the only place

we really can be. Here's the only place we've functioned properly, because if we dwell in the past or in the future, it's side tracks the whole mission, you know, but sidetracks the happiness. At least for me. I can always find something I did that was stupid, and I can always be nervous about something I'm going to do. So to be present is almost this year has been what I'm trying to learn how to be is just be more present because we don't know what's going to happen in

the future, and nobody really foresaw this coming. So being present this year and coming from the heart, those are the two lessons I on and self love. So I guess there's three. Yeah, and then they're not mutually exclusive. All those things, each one kind of relies on the other. Yeah, they all go nicely together. It's like a triangle. So you know, if you have all three of them balanced nicely, then then you will, like a wild man once said,

the ultimate goal is peace in the heart. Yeah that was your quote maybe or maybe I don't even know, Maybe I dreamed it. Maybe we that's our quote. We made it. Yeah, some wise people said sorry for wherever we please, your eze whoever, which may have been one of us. Um. So now that I've done just being excited and telling everybody how excited I have to talk

to you. And you're just one of the more interesting human beings I know, and super open minded in a career that I, at least growing up, I thought was only of hardcore biker bitches, and like your whole attitude towards it is very different and it's refreshing because we can get tattoos and like talk spirituality and it's not odd at all. So it was I opening to me when we met. It's just a whole different experience. It's

really cool. Thank you. I take that as a huge compliment because you know a lot of people and you have a lot of experiences, so that that means go out to me, and yeah, I came up through that all those modalities and tattooing, Like I worked for a pretty heavy duty biker and the magic was still always there, even with those weird kind of like interfaces that we would have to go through and like the posturing and

all the weird ship it's still underneath it. All the tattoos were always like just kind of coming through, you know. And we're talking before just how like party tattoos or just like I worked in a tourist town, you know, so I was tattooed tourists all the time, and they would just kind of come in on autopilot and just like pick stuff out, not even knowing what they were getting.

But something deep down I felt like it was always kind of like, uh, you know there there there's some seeds there, so some like something deeper that that that they're looking for, and I don't know what it is, and they might not know it is. What is happening right now, like in the moment that you're saying, it's kind of you know like and also especially now they're

tattooing on TV just social media. It's a huge presence on there in a lot of circles and stuff like that, but it's still there even beyond all that stuff too. What I found interesting is when you were talking about tattooing has been around since the sept kind of forever. Yeah, the oldest remains, So why did the oldest remains have tattooed on them? Like I said earlier that I think it was just like an inherent need to mark oneself, to adorn oneself. But I mean the physical like was

it a dot, was it a circle? Was an iba? There were some lines? There were some lines, and I had read that it was like maybe some property that he might have owned, or maybe like a delineation of where he lived. You know, it was like under his knee. It was a man. But then like you see, like not too much later in different parts of the world, there's like way more elaborate stuff, you know, like stuff

that kind of looks like the cave paintings in France. Yeah, you know, like similar to that kind of look like the same kind of artwork that was being made on the caves they were making on themselves. I've been thinking about the power symbols and how there are a lot of tattoos you see on a lot of people and they just are recurring like eyeballs, and there's a lot of crosses there in a lot of your tattoos, like a is it a mendola? Yeah, yeah, herds, daggers, snakes, swords,

naked ladies. And it's just kind of wondering if, hey, what's your favorite thing to like tattoo on somebody that is just getting like a souvenir tattoo that you know is a very powerful symbol, but maybe they don't even know it, but you know it. Well. Yeah, any of that stuff from the American traditional, the classic American traditional cannon of images, I think is really like a useful codex of these just just and it's also like a great because like it was such a like kind of

rough and crude approach to doing the work. But people were finally starting to get pictures like kind of shaded and colored on them and stuff like that. Several things really stripped down to was like really like raw form. So like you know, like you said, like you said, you see like a tiger through a skull. I think a skull might be one of my favorite images. And a lot of people see that as a negative image,

but I don't see it as negative at all. Um. I think it's a very positive to be able to reflect on the impermanence of life, you know, and like you know, you think about Shakespeare has a skull, you know, yeah, of course, yeah, just like it's the existential crisis of mankind.

You know, Yes, I know that very well. I feel like that's the one of the main things that drives me to make art and drives most people to do most things, is the existential crisis of Like you said, I love that, like the tiger and the bushes waiting like it's gonna happen. You're we're all going to die. It's the only thing we for sure know, and it's terrifying because we don't know what that means, so we scramble around our whole lives trying to like create a

legacy or have children, or leave a positive impact. Or some people are just like burn it down. You see that in politics just some people are like, well, I'm gonna be dead, so I'm just gonna get what I need today right now, what I want, money, power, oil, whatever it is. So I just feel like it's going to be the constant. It's going to be the infinite battle. It's like Star Wars, It's the infinite battle between light and dark. And I think it mostly always comes back

to the fact that nobody really wants to die. But like me personally, I don't want to die, but I also don't want to live forever. That sounds exhausting now, and then you have to think of like what dies, you know, Like does your soul die? I don't think it does. Um your body dies? Are you your body? I don't think you are? You know? Like I Oh, I think that it's like a it's like a a housing,

like um, I feel like the outside. I like to think of it like I'm a Christmas tree and all the tattoos are my ornaments, yes, yes, yea or or you're the temple, but what like, what happens inside the temple is what's really important. You can adorn it, you can build it however you want. You can make the cathedral as beautiful as you want, But what happens inside

the cathedral what's important? Seeing what the soul and the body? Yeah, I think it's just like a husk, and we can shop, we cast to the side, you know, because that's where again, where we're talking about existential crisis is. You know, the body consciousness is a huge each problem. You know when you when you you start identifying as the body, you're going to run into all kinds of situations. You know, as a woman in pop music, I know about that,

and it's something that I just like, it's exhausting. But then I finally have gotten to this point where I'm just a Christmas tree now and I like thinking about myself like that because this is the housing for my soul. And if you get too caught up in it, then you're focusing on the wrong ship. You're not focusing on the power that's inside the temple. I think a Christmas

tree is an excellent analogy. You keep decorating it and then you know, keep leaving presence underneath it, and you know you're giving to the world, and then you put it on the curb. Come like January quill, No, that's so sad. The Christmas tree depth parade is so sad. But that's basically what we're doing. And then you know, another you take on another one, and you decorate it and make the presents and you have dinner around it, and then that's gone to the curve, and you know,

keeps happening, keeps happening. What's important is what the tree means, you know. Yeah, so that's kind of like the stone you're talking about, Lingam, Siva, Lingam. Just in this brief conversation, I feel like I understand the stone more do Sheva Lincom time I see you, I'm gonna give you a little one. Oh my god. It's what if it's like a tomagotchi and I forget to like bathe it. I had a's like little toys that would beat you if you forgot to like electronically feed them. I had them

in high school. All my tomagotchis died. The only thing that happens is that you're you're not bathing yourself it's just like not taking a bath to yourself. Well, I don't shower very much. After a while, you just start smelling like the material world. Okay, it's so true. I need to actually physically bathe more often. I like, sometimes we'll just be like, it's quarantine. Who am I trying to fool here? Nobody can smell me? And then in the same sentence, I'm like, no, I think I need

to take a shower. Okay, when we're done, I'm gonna take a shower. You've inspired me in many ways, but I did want to ask you if there were a couple things that were texting about that I've never heard the stories, and I thought, my listeners come here for all things creepy and unexplainable and just supernatural. And you told me that there was a psychic nun. Oh yeah, psychic nun in Peru. And I have to know I don't know any I don't know anything else about this story.

Just for everyone who's listening, I don't know about this. I just know there's a psychic nun. Okay. So my teacher, my guru, lived in Peru for a quite quite some time. I think he was there for over ten years he lived in the jungle and uh, he he was visiting a church one time that was in the city in Lima, and he said, this nun came up to him and grabbed him by this hand and said you're, um, oh, you're an evangelist. And he was like, I'm not an evangelist, no,

I think you have any mistaken for someone else. And she's like, well, you're bringing a lot of people towards God. And he's a group, you know, he's a Abada group, and he's also a shaman you know, who lived in the jungle and works with the plants, and he brought a lot of people to God through the plants. So

she was totally right. So they he developed a friendship with this nun and when I was there, he arranged a meeting with me and her, so he didn't come with me, but I had a translator because my Spanish isn't very good at all, and uh, we met this nun and she it was actually where the church is the black seat Thomas, who I don't know if you've seen Thomas up well, you have to look up to the black scene. So anyway, um, it's where he lived.

So she brought me up into his room and stuff, which was really really powerful place I could tell where he actually lives, where he actually lived, where his bed was. They kind of kept it there. So upon meeting her, immediately she grabbed my hands and she held my hands and she said, and you're here, but you're not doing what you're supposed to be doing. And I was like, oh my god, I felt horrible. And she's like no, no, no, you know, and the translators explaining it, so there's a

little bit of like delay. So I'm like kind of reflecting what she said, and she's like, no, tell him not to feel bad. I mean that he's not doing what is in his life that he was supposed to do. He was supposed to be a judge or a lawyer. And I was like, no, that doesn't sound right. And I was like uh, and she's like, what about a

police the police? And I said, oh, my family, A lot of my family members were police, and it I was always told that I was going to be a cop when I was a kid, you know, and I never wanted to be. Oh, you know, probably when I was younger, I might wanted to be, but I didn't become a cop long story short. So I was like,

I can't see you being a cop. No, but just in my family, like on both sides, both my mother's and my father's father's were both cops, and my father was cop, and I had some uncles that were and then um, my wife's family, there's cops and I'm surrounded by these law enforms. Well that's well, that's what she said. She grabbed my hands and she said, who in your family was a Mason? And I said my grandfather. That was someone who I was closest with, was my mom's father,

and she said he was from a higher order. She's like, you come from a long line of templars, like Freemason, the Knights of Templar were you know, my grandfather was a Freemason. But she said, I came up. My whole lineage comes from these templars who were the ones who protected the pope, you know, and back that the old

you know, ancient times. And uh, she held my hands and she was holding my hands and she said, what you do now you have electric in your hands, which was the tattooing and tattoo shop by the way, Yeah, electric tattoo exactly. So this is what you know, within maybe two minutes of meeting her, and then she brought me down to the tomb of St. Rosa, who was also buried at this in this monastery where I was at, and uh, she said, lay on on Rose's tomb, and she said, do you know the guy at Tree Monstra,

which is a Vedic mantra. So I had no idea how she knew about it. She's a Peruvian nun in the Catholic feat And I said, I said, yeah, I know the guy at True MANTRASA said, lay on Rose's tomb and chant the guy at True Mantra. So, you know, ten minutes now in this monastery and I'm laying on a saint's tomb on my back, chanting Vedic Indian mantra in Peru, in Lima, Peru. That sounds like it could

have been transformative. How was this it was? It was, I mean like these are things that like when it's happening in the moment, it was kind of like going through it and then it's been with me for the rest of my life. I think about it. There's probably on a daily, almost daily basis, you know, how that

this had something to do? You know, I'm still not quite sure what part of that path was, you know, And then she was telling me all kinds of other things as well, but like it was really that moment. There was something what's happening, you know, and and everything

started to make sense about like the police. I was always like, why is why m I come from this cops family, you know, where all these cops and you know basically that I tried to be the opposite of that that makes sense, the rebellious, Yeah, miss I did that with music. My mom like wrote country music, and I was like, what's the total opposite super dancy pop where I like talk ship on top of it. It was like the opposite of classic old school country music.

And now I've like fully come back around and been like, oh, you know what, Waylon Jennings and Johnny Cash all that's actually the best. It's actually my favorite. And I was just being rebellious. But she has right the electricity in your hands. She's right about that, And I'm not going

to become a cop. But I was gonna ask you, I don't know about the top part, but now but I get it, like, you know, like the idea, you know, back when you're thinking about the Knights of Temple are and the Freemasons and ancient mystery schools and stuff like that. That's when the law was like moralities law. It wasn't like busting kids for smoking weed, you know, or like oppressing people. It's a different world. I feel like, I don't know. I wasn't there, but I assume it's a

completely different world. But I actually don't know that much about the Freemason Like I know a little bit about it, but it has a lot of secrecy. Is it a religion, is it a it's a it's a it was a secret order, um, you know, which they you know, they consider it to be mysteries coming from the mystery schools, the ancient mystery schools of Egypt. And I'm not amazing personally. I only know of it from what has been kind of passed down through my family, which they're you're not

really supposed to talk about. Well, you don't have to tell me. I'm just carious. It has to do with the building of the Great Temple. There's a great architect that that is like the master mason of the craft and the stages of his you kind of reflect the stages of his initiation through your own personal initiation, you know, things like that, and uh, you know, I was super interested in it once I found out, like I always

knew my granddad was into it. But for me, I thought it was just like spaghetti dinners on the weekends, you know, and fundraising and stuff. That's what I kind of thought it was. I thought it was just like the dudes that wanted to get together and like party, Yeah, alright, like get away from the ladies and get a little drunk with your boyfriends. That aspect I'm sure exists in it.

But when there are people that take the degrees seriously and their initiatives, you know, and there are people that I know who who are Mason's who have gone through the initiation process, and I can see the difference in them as they've gone through the different steps, you know, because it's all it's also reflection again, you know. It's like what I was talking about earlier with the bathing of the lingom. It's like another way of like recognizing

the self, you know, through this process. And there's there's an actual death ritual in their initiation, like a a symbolic death that you must go through to become a master Mason. A symbolic death ritual. Yeah, because the master Mason that was killed. I'm not going to mention his name because it's the esoteric c production even really talk about. So I'm not from the order, but what I'm gonna say is that, uh, he was killed this this um, the master Mason, so they kind you have to go.

It's like your death is like an egoic death, so you can take on the initiation to become degree interesting. I've always it's really weird. I did some of my very first recordings ever in a empty Masonic lodge in Santa Monica, like super close to where I'm living now, and I drive by it all the time, and I remember being in there at nighttime and I would just be walking around writing songs in this temple, and I

just always was fascinated with it. There were so many very beautiful, interesting looking things and scrolls and wall hangings and all this really beautiful stuff, but I never went deep into what it was. Do you think it informed

your music? I think that religion and all kinds of symbols and religion and growing up in the South, which was really religious, and I wanted to be really religious, and everybody that was popular, was really religious, but I was really spiritual, and that conflict of well, you're not a good Catholic or a good Christian if you believe in equal rights or things like that, where there were things I couldn't get past, Like I believe that loving someone else is beautiful and sacred and I don't care

what your genitalia is like that is something I've known since I was like three years old, and so when I would go to church, I would cry. I would get on my knees and like cry and be like please, like help me understand what I don't get because I know love is good, but I and I want to believe in all of this and I want to be part of this whole thing. All these popular kids are so into I want to be part of it so bad.

But I know that love is not bad. It doesn't matter who what two people are in love, Like, I know it's not wrong, and I just could not justify. I couldn't get around it in my head. And from there then I started studying comparative religion and I wanted to I went to Columbia over the summer. That's like what I did for fun. As I sat in on college courses in Nashville, and then over the summer, I

went to Columbia to study do you Comparative Religion? Because I was like, maybe there's just something I don't understand, like why do like the Baptist Church you can't do certain things and dinosaur bones are a test of test of faith and things like that, where I'd just be like,

I don't understand. So I had to kind of come full circle and study all the religions and spiritualities and temples, and I've traveled all over the world and I'm so lucky, and I've kind of come to the conclusion that your spirituality comes from yourself and it's a connection to you and whatever you want to call it. It's really personal and it's really beautiful and to share it's amazing. But also it's not something. I feel like there's been so

much death around religion that it's hard. Like even the word God. I think I said that earlier, there's so much baggage to the word God. M Yeah, like that's what I feel like I have a connection to, but it's a highly loaded term. So I just call it whatever you want to call it. Yeah, Well that's why I really like the consciousness of infinite goodness. You know that it's such a beautiful name for good or expression

of God. I should say, um, I think that, you know. Unfortunately, in that as time has worn on, we we've all kind of confused spirituality with priest craft, you know, and whenever the priests are telling you what God is to you, you're going to run into a lot of problems. And that's like one of the basis of a lot of the situations that we're seeing in Christianity. You know, when when someone's telling you they have the only way, you

probably shouldn't believe them. Everyone has to find their own path with it and whatever feel like, you know, when your guts when someone feels really wrong or something feels really right. And it's just always felt really wrong in my like child insights that like because someone was gay, they shouldn't be allowed to be in that temple or that church. Like that to me just never made any sense and I could never reconcile that, and that kind of grew into being a huge topic of a lot

of my music. And I just wanted to make a place that was super inclusive and safe for anyone to come and yeah, of course, get drunk if you want to, and dance because that's a high vibration too, and just celebrate the now like your life, celebrate your life. So it's a little bit like nihilistic, but it's also I don't know, just taking advantage of being alive and being excited about it. I think that's the thing I missed the most this year, is not being able to throw

gigantic celebrations every night and call it a job. Yeah. Yeah, I don't think spirituality should ever have been like a dry thing, you know, like it doesn't have to be a desert for people to go to for all their you know, their ways to go die. And it's also something like you don't have to go off into a cave, or you don't have to wear orange rope, or you don't have to build a temple in your back. You alred,

you don't have to do any of this stuff. If you're moved to do any of those things, that's fine as well. But there's a concept of false renunciation. It's in the Bagagita um and Krishna talks about that. You know. It's like basically, you know the Gita at all, Are you Hindu or Are you not identified with any of it, particularly for all intents and purposes, Yes, because that's the lineage that I practice is through India. You know, we refer to it as as not in a dharma, which

is the eternal duty. You know, this is our duties to understand our human birth. Hindu as a term that was kind of it was for the colonists, you know, that's the English referred to the Indian people from the Indu Valley, but it's used in India by Indian people and you know, it's like it's not insulting to call someone Hindu at all, neat people identify as Into. But yeah,

so it along those that's that lineage. But the Boga Geith is one of the major works that people chant and read and reflect on in the Sonatona Dharma, and it's the story of a warrior who is about to go to war and he's the battle consists of families on both sides, and the warrior doesn't want to fight because his teachers and his cousins and uncles are on the other side of the battlefield and he doesn't see

any point in it. And God Lord Krishna as God comes down and says the battle has already been fought. You have no deer a warrior. Do your duty and do be the best at it, you know. And what he what he's telling him to do is like it's masically a message of like, do what you do in your best way. I don't try to be anything else except what you cannot change. That's the hardest thing in life. I feel like accepting what you can't change and come to peace with things you can't know the answer to.

For instance, earlier today, I was speaking with someone about extraterrestrial life and she was speaking about how she had made contact and through meditation chanting, And now I'm just like, I'm obsessed with that because I want I want that experience. I want to see it, I want to feel it.

Because the more I hear about extraterrestrials and people having a connection to God and reincarnation things like that, it just makes me feel a little more at peace knowing that there's something more to this, Like when I feel that God consciousness or you said infinite the consciousness of infinite goodness. Oh that's the name of the painting we got from you. Ye, holy sh it, Well we already we got it. In the house, speagure out out in

the house thanks to you. So we're talking about what you can't change, you know, accepting what you can't change. But then you are also talking about aliens and UFOs and extra terrestrials, which is great subject to talk about. Oh yeah, just the things you can't change, and also the things you can't see, our touch or feel, and just believing in them because I know that there's something out there. Yeah. I think if you, if you want it hard enough, and if you if you so desire

that it will manifest eventually in your life. You know, you just need to spend some more time with that. I was going through some really heavy sleep paralysis for a long time, and uh, it was happening more and more frequently, and it was really starting to kind of disturb me. And there were a few times where, like in the paralysis, I was starting to kind of feel like there were beings in the room with me. So that sounds so scary. See, I want it until I

hear that, and then it sounds terrifying. It was scary because the physical part of it, but I didn't feel it was menacing at all. It was the loss of control of the body was super weird, you know. And I've heard other people has have had experiences where there was like some demonic things have thing like you know, you know, like a sucky bus on the chest kind of thing, or like you know, being held held actually

held down by even it wasn't that for me. I felt like I was kind of brought into a different realm, like the room had changed and I couldn't move and there was nothing I could do about it. And when it would happen, I was getting freaked out less and less. You know, it's becoming a little bit more familiar with the with this phenomenon that was happening in my life.

So this was like a reoccurring dream, Yeah, yeah, where it happened like, you know, maybe a month apart a few times, and it was happening a week apart, and then all of a sudden, it was happening every night. So in the moment when I when it was happening, when it was going down, I was becoming more and more comfortable in this environment of paralysis and with these

possible entities in my room. But when I wasn't, when I would finally snap out of it and come out of it and come back into the dimension of being in my bed and like heading, I'd be so freaked out, and I didn't know. I just didn't know how to like, I couldn't really um if it was happening to me. Now, I think I would have a better hardware to like kind of deal with it, you know. I think my my focus and my attention could probably served me better.

But then I was panicking. I was much younger, and uh, how how the whole thing kind of came to a culmination. I was in the sleep paralysis and I heard a car alarm going off in the background, and uh, I started focusing on the car alarm. I was like, wow, that's really weird. It's car alarm and I can't move. And then all of a sudden, the car alarms getting louder and louder. It was like, the car alarm is getting closer, ours moving closer to me? Why is the

alarm coming closer to me? And it was getting so loud that the windows started to shake, and I broke out of the paralysis and I got up, and I put on a pair of pants and put him off backwards, and I went downstairs. I ran downstairs and roommates actually woke. Then we'll followed me outside and we all got to the front yard and we heard the noise and felt this vibration and it just trailed off and it was gone.

And then I hadn't I had no sleep paralysis. From that point on, the police of your lineage came and took the demon away. There could be maybe you know the demon police, the demon police, they come into your dream. I wish I had some demon police in my lineage because I have crazy dreams, like crazy dreams where I'll just be like kicking, I'll be thrown punches, I'm screaming like fuck you in the middle of the night, and then it's like I'll have to get woken up and

Brad will be like, are you okay. I'll be like, no, I'm really really mad at you because you I forget, but I'm really mad at you. And they'll be like, you can't be mad at me about dream stuff, like yes, I can, don't tell me what to do. That's like that happens like once a week in our household. Well, I think maybe that that that need that you're having, that feeling that you want to have with the with

these extraterrestrials. Maybe that's where you're where you're having those experiences, you know, like because I think the dreaming, the waking, and the deep sleep state, those three states are all tied together, and we compartmentalize them in a way that doesn't serve us well, you know, because I think we're getting we're getting a lot through our dreams, and we're getting a lot through deep sleep, and we're getting a lot when we're awake. And I don't think it ends

just because you lay down, you know. I think that's huge actually that you're having these things happen to you, because if there's awareness happening when the mind is turned off, that's really really efficient. It's exhausting when I have nightmares, because I'll go to sleep and I'll wake up kind of like you were saying, like just like trying to yell and fight my way out of a dream. And then then when I wake up, it's like morning time and time to do the day, and I'm like, damn it,

I've been like fighting monsters for eight hours. Now, I need to actually go to sleep and dream about like kittens. That's that's why when you're on the served, you're you're a piece, you know, but I think, yeah, I think you're sharpening the store for your daily daily duties in the in the dream stay in the dream world. I feel like the extra terrestrials, I'm like sending them an invite into my brain. And at the same time, I'm scared because it's freaky. There's nothing to be afraid of.

You think you've met an extra terrestrial, like for sure, Yeah, and it wasn't scary. You weren't scared. I think, Okay, this might not be a popular belief. I think I've met them in my day to day interactions and they just seemed like they were they were human, but they weren't, you know what I mean. Like my mom swears she's part alien, and she's not joking. She's like, I swear to God, there's like in her ancestor there's some sort

of like interbreeding with extraterrestrials. Not joking, yea, like the Anna Knochi or something like that. You know, there's like all these kind of other life forms that supposedly bread into our race. What's Anna Knoki. It's like a different kind of humanoids that are half alien half human. You know, it's like like a tribe of half human half aliens. I'm not too knowledgeable on this stuff. I just said, you know, I've been doing some like scant research on

UFOs and stuff. When I was younger, I heard about Anna Knochi, you know, and they were the ones that would give us the pine cone. You know. Ever see like they're holding a pint and that would be like representative of the pineal gland and in the mind, Oh my god, I would have never put that together. Okay, So according to my mom, I am just repeating what

I've heard she told me. So there's this guy named Carl, and he's like, I can tell you as an alien that you're a part alien and try to find out who invented the microchip and the microwave and those were gifts from extraterrestrials. Wow, it's like alien intelligence. That's like the government worked into our daily society like that, and now they're in our phones and follow us around everywhere.

But this is according to Carl, who is also according to my mother about Carl, So it's like fourth hand information. Is Carl, like, is Carl Ripertu is alien Carl? She calls him crazy Carl, though, very close crazy Carl e g. Carl, microwaves are a gift from no you know, I it sounds outrageous and insane, but like, what about our regular

existence isn't outrageous and insane? You know, like the fact that you go into a tube subterranean, go around the city, then you you know, it's drop you off, and then you hop on an airplane and fly to a different country. You know, it's like we're living our our existence is not so as normal as we perceive it to be.

I don't think oh, I don't think so either. I fully get tripped out about even just the radio, Like the radio and then the fact that cell phones and like we're looking at each other in real time having a conversation and you are at least what like four thousand miles away from me yea or three thousand and we in real time or having a conversation face to face, Like, what the fuck? That doesn't make any sense? Thanks to Carl, I'll say the name of my cat. So maybe Carl

is the alien we've always needed. Through Carl, we know that the batteries and the microwave is a technology, and I think about it and like I am not high. No, I just sometimes think about technology and I'm like the fact that I can sit here and look at your face and talk to you and you're so far away

as a trip. I think about a lot that like there there's probably people that are still alive today there there, it's getting up there in years, but there's people that were alive when there weren't at least as many planes in the sky, or any planes at all. You know, like what we here was the first commercial play. I

don't know what year. I don't know what year was the first I'm looking at brad Well three is like the right brothers brothers Okay, so like our My grandfather was born in nineteen nineteen, So like people, maybe not so much anymore, but thirty years ago there were people that were alive, or forty years ago that there were any planes in the sky, and you would just never be able to it. I'm sorry, wait, go ahead and say it. My grandfather passed years ago. He remembers electricity

being put into his barn as a kid. That right, yeah, yeah, totally, Like so like what we're living in out you know, it's just it's grown so exponentially so fast, like it's insane, and it continues to go, you know. Like I remember I took a break from television for ten years, and when I turned the TV back on and actually pay assension to it, I cannot believe the speed of everything. How everything was hitting you so much faster. It's crazy. We're downloading stuff in our own minds in ways that

no one has ever had before. I sometimes have to take a break from like the consumption of media because it makes me feel like my head's gonna excellent. I'm not sure if that's like a good kind of thing or a bad thing, but I just sometimes have to like leave the phone at home, take a break, like go on a walk, go smell of flower, look at a tree, and be like, I'm going to disengage from the information. It's probably something that we should all do

more frequently. But even just to do it like a couple of times in your life, I think it's hugely beneficial. I was in the jungle for ten days one time, where I wasn't even allowed to bring a book with me, you know, so everything that came out of that experience was all output. There was no input. The only input was the jungle that I was in you know, and uh, it was. It was so intense, it was so powerful.

It was like, you know when people say that had a life changing experience, that was a truly life changing experience for me. It was the first time and probably the only time where there was no input all The only input was natural was nature. And that was in well because in times like I would imagine I've been in the Proving jungle a long time ago, and my mom was there, So I'm not like, was your mom withol you? My mom wasn't. I wish, but she was

not there. My mom was with me, So I was like I was sneaking out and drinking like a little bit of like I don't know, some sort of alcohol all they made in the middle of the Provian jungle and like running around, and you know, it was like there's this element of being like a bad young kid. I definitely wasn't on like a spiritual quest quite yet.

Sure I would love to revisit as an adult in my mind because I was like seventeen, Well we're you know, we're talking about extra terrestrial with like the jungle is a completely different terrestrial experience, you know, like that's you know, it was opposite of everything I've ever experienced here, you know, and like, and that's happening all over the planet, you know, as we're living these lives with the cell phones and everything that you said we had to take a break from,

you know, and it's like, it's pretty amazing. That's what. Okay. That was the point was that I would be if I went there now, and especially if I um, which I've never done Ayahuaska. But apparently it's life changing, especially if you do it in the proving jungle from multiple people I've just heard it's like just really a purge for your brain and body and soul and system of just everything. Yeah, it's It's informed a lot of what I practice and a lot of the arts and I

make and the way I live my life. I've been working with that plant for twelve years now, thirteen years now, so because I have never done it, because let me preface it with I've heard it last for like three days, which I am not about to commit to something for three days. It really doesn't um. It only lasts for about seven hours here in the afterglow of it for three days, which is amazing, and sometimes even three months. But the effect the effect of drinking the plant only

lasts for about seven hours, seven to ten hours, is it? Like? Did you do it in Peru and the jung I've done it in the States a lot and in groves in the jungle and with like would you call shaman or with the shaman? Yeah? With the shaman yeah, and that it's huge. Like so it's to me not only you know, the plant is a very powerful plant. It's it contains the knowledge of all the other plants in

the jungle. It's like the grandmother plant. You know, it holds the basic, the entire thematic of how everything works in the jungle. But also the ceremony with the shaman is a truly alchemic experience because what's happening is you're drinking the plant. It's inside of you. The shaman is outside of you, singing songs that the plants reacting to

the song inside your body. So almost think of like snake charming, Like if there was a snake inside of you and then someone outside of you was playing in the flute. That's what's happening with this plant. And the ego is is what the song is called. So it's this powerful experience where you know, like it's true alchemy. True magic is happening when when the ceremony is conducted in the right manner. I don't know what about that

plant in particular. Maybe it's just because I've been so curious about it, and it's like I've always wanted to try it, and I'm also terrified of it. And it's also how I feel about acid. It's like I've never done it, really scared of it, highly curious about it. I don't know if I need to try it. There are things like that which might completely mind bend my brain. But I also am scared of it because every single time I've drink it, I've been terrified that never goes away.

You know. It's like skydiving, you know, or like and I mean, and I hate to say that, because a lot of people approach it as like an adrenaline rush kind of thing too. You know. I think people wanted to be like those spiritual bungee jumpers or whatever. But I don't want to be any kind of bungee jumper. No, no, I mean neither. But if there is a level of fear that you kind of have to conquer, you know, and like you know, because you're kind of like taking

yourself out of your body. You know, you're taking yourself out of your mind. You know, when people say you're out of your mind, you know, or like I got out of my mind on this drug or whatever, you are truly out of your mind. And it's a good thing.

It's probably the best thing you can do for yourself is take yourself out of your mind for eight hours, you know, and to let this plant do its work, because it's got a huge healing aspect to it, it's got a huge teaching aspect to it, and it has a huge revelatory aspect that you can like bring you to higher states of consciousness. You're by far not the first person that told me that, but yeah, I said to see, when you say out of your mind, I feel like I'm already a little out of my mind.

So I'm scared to get any more out of my mind. I'm not trying to I'm also trying not to tell you might not ever need to do it, and it might not ever happened, and you're life would be great without it as well. But if you ever have the opportunity and you feel called the nervousness and anticipation and anxiety. You might feel you can conquer it. You've done a lot more scary stuff in your life. I feel like I used to thrive on anxiety, and now that I've had a break from it, I'm like, I don't want

to feel super anxious all the time. It's a whole I feel like my life is going to be totally changed after this year. Anxiety sucks, man, Anxiety is like one of the worst, And like, yeah, if you can get there, if you can get to a place in your life where you're experiencing minimal anxiety, if not any anxiety, Matt, I think you've you've won. God, that sounds like heaven. I honestly don't know if I know what that feels like.

My goal, after I had this crazy trip of experience where I met the consciousness of infinite goodness, of my goal became to vibrate on the level of a neutron, completely neutral, because then there's like the positive and the negative, and then there's the neutral, and you get peace when you're at the neutral. This is what the consciousness of infinite goodness was like. You just gotta like bring your levels to be like pure peace, total peace. If that

makes any sense. Do you believe in heaven? I believe in I believe in reincarnation, sure, but I don't know if I believe in heaven. I don't think you like, go to a place and there's like a guy with a with a you know, like a doorman with a you know St Peter that the guy who checks you in, Oh my God, would be the worst, would be the worst, like childhood trauma, high school ship if you literally die in there, like sorry v I p You're not on the list. You have to get the less cool place.

The story of my life suck. I really hope there's not a heaven. I would be so passed. I don't think that's what it is to me. Heaven is a place that you can get to in your life where you have no needs. I think that's evan. So I did want to ask you one thing that you texted me about. Okay, the UFOs in the Andes Mountains. You brought that up in the same text with the psychic nun, and I just I have to at least ask you

what you're talking about. Okay, Well, it's just I think I should probably should be better grammar because maybe it's my fault, my fault. The telepathic thing was I met some status in India or actually one is the stain the stat in India. Do you know what no, I was going to ask you. I have no idea whether I saw do is you put that in the text too and I was I didn't know. So there's there's status in India. And a true meaning of a sadu

is someone who's efficient. Like I was saying just just a second ago, these are people that don't have kneeds, you know, like they they they eat and people feed them. You know, they just have like a cloth, they don't even have clothes, um, you know. They and if they don't get said, they just don't eat. They don't need to eat. They and a lot of them don't talk either. They don't feel the need to have verbal communication and uh, but they do communicate telepathically. And I've spent a lot

of time with a few of them. One in particularly on a on a mountain, uh called Mountain Aronachuala in South India, and he communicates completely telepathically. He doesn't talk to anyone, but he has people that come and sit with them and he just sits. That's all. He does, and he's just sitting and sitting and sitting for hours and hours a day. But when you're with him, there's a lot to be learned and a lot to be stilled and experienced. And U people that are you know,

I definitely got something from being with them. But I was there with my teacher who was completely on a on a telepathic communication with him, like, uh, we went there to see him daily and he was getting a lot from him, and uh, they were, they were there was this like play going on between the two of them. And I saw that, you know, because I know him very well, and I saw he would chant to him, he would reach scripture to him, and the saint would just sit there and listen and bless us God, just

with just his eyes. But yeah, I'm not saying a word and not that's so crazy. I mean, it's not crazy. It sounds actually like the least crazy thing, but it's yeah, it's actually totally sane. This this person is totally at piece. You know, he's just like he's a stone, you know, but you feel this joy and he eminates joy. He vibrates joy and love and also like just a lot to learn by example, you know, it's inspiring to see somebody like I'm not gonna go to a mountain and

just sit there and not talk to anyone. That's not my path. But I get a lot of term being around someone like that, you know, to be around someone that has no needs and who has elevated themselves that they can talk to me without even speaking, and they can teach me without even speaking. Did you feel like

you works like receiving anything? Oh, totally undercent. I was receiving messages and just like it causes like a reflection upon myself, it causes inquiry mself, like, Wow, this person doesn't need anything, and this person is beyond the scope of any kind of tyranny, you know, any kind of psychic tyranny, any kind of obligational tyranny, any kind of law tyranny, any kind of international national tyranny, government tyranny,

you know, family tyranny. You know, like any of the thing is that play guts in our daily you know, struggle, he's he doesn't, it's not there. So it's just like a clear channel of like truth, you know. And to be able to sit with that and sit near even to sit near that's like a huge opportunity. The idea of having zero drama with anything or anyone is a hard concept for me to even like wrap my brain around too, but it was actually able to see it.

You know, it sounds beautiful. I try to like be less dramatic, but in my world, it's very different than being able to sit and not talk. I don't think I could do that for like an hour. I can't I wake up myself up from yelling. I can't even sleep and not talk, like I can't keep my damn

mouth shut. But maybe that's just not my path this lifetime. Yeah, And that's the thing, Like, are what we've done in our in this life and in prior eves, And I think that kind of determines that, you know, like we we have to have some drama in our last because you know, we were drawn towards it. I think people are naturally drawn towards drama. This is my own hypothesizing happening in my brain. But I think people like having dramas so then they don't have to focus on anything inward.

But so the drama of like television, politics, friends, high school, whatever is going on, celebrity culture, it just like is a great distraction from having to like look inward. Yeah, I think, you know, there's huge dopamine hits from all that what they call it doom scrolling when you're like scrolling through through like Twitter and stuff, especially with the election and stuff. I was so guilty of it. Me too.

I was completely consumed by it. But like, I see your what you're getting from doing that is just like tiny, like dirty versions of what you could be getting if you just put it all aside and go inwards. I know, it feels really dirty. That's the exact word I would use to like describe as Whenever I like I'm looking through that kind of stuff, I feel like I hope like no one sees me doing this because I'm not

proud of it. Like it feels icky. I'm like, hey, why are you being like why are you looking at this ship? It's gonna make you feel bad? But then

I do it. It's the weirdest thing. I think there's like a dopamine effect you know, that you get from it, you know, And I've heard like, so I'm recently was explaining it to me that like when you see someone that you think is right, you know, in the midst of all this, you know, like, you know, whatever the prosecutor that's going to take out Trump or the person

you know, the president that wins or whatever. When you align yourself with those people, you know, it's like, oh, okay, this this person is on my side, you know, and you identify that. There's like a dopamine effect with that, you know, and that's why we always want to go

back to that. Yeah, exactly, there's some merit in there somewhere, you know, maybe that like we're trying to align ourselves with good you know, and like it's also like we're in a fucking seriously crazy time on the planet, so I think it's important to kind of pay attention to it in some respects. But we can't let it. We

can't let it dictate who we really are. No, It's so it's really like it's confusing because sometimes I'll not have any idea what or who someone's talking about, so I feel out of touch with some sort of cultural reference. But at the other end, my mom kind of raised us not too. We didn't watch cartoons, we didn't really watch movies, Like I saw conn Air and I saw Face Off for the first time like this year, and

it blew my fucking mind. And but like everyone else, and I was like, yeah, I saw that when I was ten, where have you been? And my mom just like was like, go outside, write songs, catch firefly, don't go on a TV. No. So I don't even like the cartoons. I see in really nice pieces of art and there's like a cartoon. I don't know who the cartoon is. I feel so stupid. But it's also because I was just being present in my life as a child, because that was the way my mom raised me. So

it's this weird thing. I don't get a lot of cultural references though, you know that what made me look that made me think of and it's it's a kind of a weird obscure reference. But like, do you remember when there was that huge months soon there's a huge tidal waves? I think it happened in like early two thousands in Japan. No, not the Japanese one. There's warm right before that. It was like I think it happened like in the Fiji Islands. I do remember what you're

talking about. Yeah, so what I remember hearing that, Like first there was a huge wave and it crashed on the beach and it was eat it, and it brought all these fish onto the beach, and like all these children and even like villagers came out and like went and looked at the fish because they were fish they'd never seen before, you know, they came from deep in

the ocean, and then the big waves came. And I feel like that kind of happens with us when we we haven't been exposed to stuff like the Age of Wonder, you know, like and the curiosity, like how that can definitely bring us to a demise, you know, you know what I mean, Like, yeah, I'm I would be there staring at a fish from the deep ocean. I would be right front and center for that. Or watching conn Air while that you know, will the well while Rome is burning, you know, like I'll watch so much TV,

you know all. You know, I'm sitting in the temple right now, and I go inside and I'll watch TV. You know. Um, that makes me feel good about myself. Though you're sitting in a temple you built, that you have made. It's a beautiful piece of art. You're a magical, mystical human and you're about to do inside much TV And I might go watch Nicolas Cage movie and like that's human, it's okay, Yeah, it's a pandemic. Yeah, and we should we shouldn't be so hard on partner ourselves.

And like when you see, I don't know, I'm not I'm not about the rules, you know, like all the different rules. I love. I love lineage, and I love teachings, and I love preserving those things and like a binding by them and like trying to stick to them as close to being prescribed as possible. But you have to do it your own way, for sure, I agree. All right? Can I ask you a couple of just stupid questions and then yeah, okay, great, let's get stupid. Let's get stupid.

We're about to get stupid. Here. Would you rather be? Well, this one, I think you already. I think I know the answer. Would you rather be abducted by aliens? Or sleep in a truly haunted house alone for a night. I would go for the alien abduction. See, I think I might too, But I'm also like, no shade to the ghost, because some ghost can be friendly. That's in my experience. Okay, what would be like your style of haunting? If and when you're a ghost someone? Yeah, like, how

would we know it's you. Oh okay, geez, that's a great question. I would like I would love to be able to play an instrument as a ghost, you know, like a flute, you know, like if you heard the flute playing, you're like, oh, he's here, Like Jethroats. I was in a haunted house one time where if you played the piano, the ghost would start kicking around upstairs. I love that. Yeah, and it didn't seem like it

was happy though. I feel like it was. It was their piano and they didn't want other people playing it. Oh fair, Okay, so you can be a ghost? Is the flute? Do you play the flute in real life? H okay, that makes sense. I was today. It's a little random, but I'll know it's you if I ever hear a flute flying by futum. I have thought about mine. I don't know what I would do. I would probably just like scare the ship out of people just for funfit. I don't know. Wouldn't you be a thing? No? I

sing when I get paid. You don't think, but yeah, would you? Wouldn't you want to make a great ghost song? Like maybe? Actually, you know what, that's just me being a jackass. I would actually, probably because I've been singing my whole life since i was a little kid, like to the point where my brother who's on the compis meted and my mom would be like, shut up, go outside. If you're gonna sing, go outside, go into the bushes

so we can't hear you. You're so annoying. And I was like, okay, but that's when I was trying to learn how to yodel, and so I was like doing these like super annoying like yodels, and they're like, go the fuck outside. So I think if I were a ghost, it would be like me, like yodeling. I'd be a yodeling ghost. That's me, that's my ghost. I hope I never encountered yodeling. We could hunt together, Flute Yoda learned.

This sounds like hell, the worst band ever. Maybe there is a heaven and hell would be me and you hunting someone together. Yeah, yeah, we better never anybody that. That sounds really fun. Actually, let's plan on meeting up out there when we're done here. Um, okay, if you could be haunted by anyone, who would it be? Oh, you know who it would be? And this is this is kind of crazy. Because I really wanted to be haunted by Eugene O'Neill. You know who that is. Who's

that a playwriter? He wrote The Iceman Coming and this, And the only reason why I'm not a huge fan of Eugene O'Neill, it's because I lived in a house that Eugene O'Neill bought for his daughter and I used to like, I used to think that I would have like an encounter with him. So I've already been like pursuing this ghost of Eugene O'Neil for a while. Um when I when I was younger for him to get

you check it out. Though his daughter was married to Charlie Chaplin, so I was also wanting to Charlie Chaplin haunting as well. So it was like yeah, yeah, yeah, I wanted like I wanted to know those those dudes, you know. And it's so crazy that my granddad, who was a free meats and he bought the house from Charlie Chaplin's widow and her daughter, and that was like kind of the house I grew up in and it felt on it. But I never had any experiences with

those with Charlie Chaplin or Eugene O'Neil. As far as I know, neither of them ever stepped in those songs. I'm sorry. Well, I'll pray for you to get on it. Maybe one day I'll get haunted by some uh none again, non non talking, yeah, Charlie Chaplin, But that would be a nice, easy, easy hunt, just no talking. God a nightmare. Okay, So we've been chatting for like two hours, So before you go, do you want to promote whatever you want to promote? Okay, the best way to find me is

probably Instagram. My Instagram handles. Robert Bryant three two three. I just a book came out today and it's part of an artist series called Black Dagger, and my volume is number twelve. And then I have a new book coming out that I've been spending a lot of time on during this quarantine, which is a book of all painting the deities and and how I interface with them and my relationship to them and what I know about them beautiful, and I should be coming out in like

hopefully around April, I hope. Okay, great, everybody follow Robert. If you want a tattoo, electric tattoo, that's what's called right electric electric tattoo and Asbury Park, New Jersey, Home of the Boss, Home of the Boss. And Robert Ryan. Um, thank you very much and you so good to see you two, and stay well, stay COVID free when we'll see you hopefully soon, Keep on creeping on, stay creepy, San Diego, good Bye,