The very same people who say that government has no right to interfere with sexual activity between consenting adults. Believe the government has every right to interfere with the economic activity between consenting adults. Welcome to Keith's night. Don't try it on anyone. And the libertarian Institute today. I'm joined by Olivia Rondell Olivia. Where is the best place for people to find your work on
Twitter? I'm at Rhonda Olivia and on Instagram. I'm Rondo dot Olivia and my link tree is in my brows on both sides. At forms, they'll take me take you to all my articles that feeds him cast. Daily Caller, Etc. Awesome. Yes. She is. The Hazlet fellow at the foundation for economic education. Great place. I've learned so much from them today. I wanted to talk about some of your influences and some of the books that you and I actually share, as far as being our Inspirations.
What was your biggest takeaway from Reading? Basic economics by Thomas soul. The reason I really liked it was because I really broke it down. Simply. I think it's a great book to give to anyone to read who is not familiar with free market, economics or libertarianism or just, you know, just wants to start learn by economics in general because my favorite part is how it just broke it down
simply and be like, okay. This is why people sometimes gravitate towards socialism and this is why people would benefit greatly from the free market. And if I guess so does a good job of emphasizing. Rising the morality. I think behind the free market over the redistribution of wealth. Because to me I've always found
that pretty immoral. Like I was never a communist or anything, but I think he explains it in a way that makes it easier for like normies to understand because I tend to listen to books instead instead of reading them. And I was listening to it around my mom and she overheard, it was like, okay, I like that. It makes sense that she's not very political person. Like she's not, she's not a socialist or like a hardcore Democrat. She's not political. She just doesn't get it.
And so, that's why I really liked it. And so I always recommend Thomas. So, I'm also read, I think the other book was called black right next to White liberals. That's not my favorite. I think it's great, but for beginners, I really really recommend basic economics. Why do you think people are still attracted to socialism when you've had experiments like North Korea and South Korea East Germany and West Germany, you know, Venezuela and Sure, he's a real socialism.
That was a real communism. That's what, literally, why that's literally all of this. That just, there's so much misinformation about it. And I always talk about this pretty frequently. But the reason why I think that people in my generation and gen Z, we hate, we tend to hate capitalism. So much is because we think that we're currently living in the capitalistic Society. We think that the government giving bail out to Jeff Bezos and huge Farm bailouts and Federal Reserve and bank
bailouts. That's what capitalism is. Is that's not what it is at all. But I think we're, we have a strong misconception about what the free market is. So I sometimes try to even not use the word capitalism. As much as I use the word free market just because of the connotations. It's amazing that in 1776. Adam Smith was writing about how mercantilism is the state and the business owners merging together and conspiring.
He uses that word against the public and the customers and today, people are calling that the Market when it was founded in opposition to those very things as far as Thomas Souls explanation for why people are so attracted to it. Do you have any other ideas as to why people are attracted to this concept of, you know, tax the rich, you know, shocks everyone photos everywhere. What do you think? Do you have any ideas to the psychology behind this?
Well, people want to feel safe and I've spoken a little bit about this before. And I am not a super religious person at all. But I do see the Merit and having something higher than yourself that you believe in. Whether that's something inner or something out or outside of yourself. I do believe that it's important to, you know, find your purpose and believe in a purpose in
life. And I think that without that, people tend to flock to the government or the state or some type of authority to be that purpose or to tell them what to do. And so I think that people generally look at the government or the state as is kind of like Otherworldly, being that isn't made up of real flawed. People with real flawed audiologist who make real mistakes and can't who are really not adequately equipped to protect you or to serve you. And so people just have way too
much faith in the government. And people think that, oh, tax the rich or just give us a Ubi or just give us a stimulus check, if they really think, it's that simple because they don't view the government as a group of flawed people, which we all are. I love how Soul starts the book, right on page, one where he defines economics. This way, people don't think it's like the study of the Dow Jones. He says economics is the study of the use of scarce resources, which have alternative uses.
I think one of the great attractions of socialism is they completely ignore this reality. So things should just be free and everyone should just have them. Well, they don't grasp opportunity cost that for every resource you spend, in One Direction. You can't spend spend it in another all Democrats on the debate stage. I think there were like 10 of them when they were asked. Should this universal health
care? Plan be limited to just citizens or also undocumented people as well and they all raise their hand. So another words 7 billion people on planet Earth could be on their health plan. That's paid for with other people's money. How do you know how big they really believe that identical, they cannot that stupid, they're evil, but they're not that stupid. But people are that stupid and we're looking at them like and Yeah, wow, undocumented immigrants like Health Care is a human, right?
I agree that everybody should have the opportunity to get health care, but that's really all you're entitled to and I read or I listened to basic economics right around. The time. I was taking a macro economics class in college and I realized everything that was in the book was basically what I was learning about anyways, and I actually had a pretty decent macro economics. Professor. He was not really biased, he was basically, it wasn't saying oh, oh, Capitalism is the only way.
But what we have learned about scarcity and the definition of economics was basically the exact same way that so we'll had to find it throughout the book and it just, it blew my mind because even at the end of that semester, we took like a, we took like a pole essentially. And in the classroom discussion, people were still in favor of universal basic income, universal healthcare universe or like free higher education. And I was like, do you guys not wear anything?
Like not even a little bit. And so that's when I realized what that the indoctrination is like way worse than I thought, because people act like, oh, people are going to this Marxist, universities getting a document there, which to some regard is true. But these kids when they came in, they already believe that, you know, and going through a whole semester of basically a pro free market macro economics class didn't really do anything to change that.
Yeah, Thomas Soul tells the story I forget, where but he said in 1959. He saw, you know, this idea of universal healthcare sort of inaction in America.
So, you know, they pretend there's a terrible predatory free market and then there's the government stuff, which is just free and always there, he actually watched a guy died outside of the US public health service has that there were a bunch of doctors inside and because there was such a bureaucracy unable to attend to people this Opened in Arizona, like five years ago at the VA in Phoenix, that people are actually dying because there's such a shortage.
It's the equivalent. I mean the left is always saying, the police are terrible and they don't provide Justice. It's like, oh, that's free Universal policing for everyone. Yeah, you don't get to choose the quality. You don't get to choose the quality. Listen. I said the same thing. So conservatives to because that, then then they don't really understand it, because I'm like, why should the government have a monopoly on violence? Why should the government have Monopoly?
On a certain type of weapon, or a certain type of gun, and then you can see the cognitive dissonance and their brains kind of like cause a malfunction as well. So has a great book called The the vision of the anointed and he said there's four key elements. This was written like 25 years ago. He says there's about four key elements.
You have to watch out for and if you ever see these in play, just know that A Swindle is going on. He says step one assertions of a great danger to the whole of society, a danger to which the masses of people are oblivious step to an urgent. Need for Action to avert impending, catastrophe 3, a need for government to drastically curtail. The dangerous behavior of the many in response to the present.
Conclusions of the few, for a disdainful dismissal of arguments, to the contrary, as either uninformed, irresponsible or motivated. By unworthy purposes. He writes about the covid and Climate change pandemic decades before they actually came to fruition. Do you have any response to that? I just love that passage. It's honestly when I when I haven't actually I don't think I've actually heard that exact passage before but it's kind of amazing how he like predicted
that. I think I've read like a lot of ever more recently been into. So but I've read some more Spooner recently and he has become like mine. New favorite. I feel like he had a lot of predictions as well in regards to just trust in the government way too much, and this is the end result. And now we're here, and it's really disheartening to see. And I think that more people who I mean, honestly, especially my age, but really anyone needs to look back at what the great, you
know, speakers and philosophers. And authors were saying about this because history repeats itself in already is, and it's really disheartening to see. Like, I don't know if I'm too young to be black filled, but I definitely am right now. Like, I definitely. I definitely am and like there's a lot of like Boomers who were like, oh, you know, your generation is going to say but your generation is better than Millennials. We're not, like not even a little bit. We're horrible.
We're like, completely like Marxist. We're not liberals. Like we're like my generation are like leftists, it's worse. And so I just wish this is why basic economics is one of my favorite books is because I think people who are stupid need to read it because it's really not a hard book to read at all. So yeah, the soul is great. As far as economic skills. Let's get into a spoon or a little, what are some of the yarra big takeaways from Spooner's work. So recently I was on a podcast
with Carrie welder. She's a pretty good Antiochus libertarian YouTuber. I had her on my show and she introduced me to some works of Spooner and I had I had studied a little bit with with fee. I think for one hour to climb. I have cited like a quote from Spooner, but it really opened my eyes to The fallacy of constitutionalism because I've always said that was like more conservative or libertarian with like the last three or four years.
I've always been like, oh, yeah. I'm a constitutionalist. You know, I you know, I like the Constitution, the Constitution protects our rights and then ring splitter made me realize that it doesn't like at all like not even a little bit. It should, you know, I still think it's a good document. I'm not, I'm not like I'm not trashing the Constitution, but I'm trashing the power. Or that people think it has. Because it really doesn't have much.
I mean, since this country since this country's Inception, the government has walked all over the Constitution. So, reading spinner. I don't know if I'm ever gonna become like an anarcho-capitalist or an anarchist or something, but it definitely put me into that direction. Because I think one of his main philosophies was just that The Constitution basically either cants protector rights or it, created US government that can't. And I'm just I'm a little bit
disenchanted with it lately. But that's again, that's not to say that. I hate it. I wish it was more powerful but it's just not it's difficult when you have people trying to abide by a document and if they do a really bad job, you can't opt out of funding them. I mean imagine if like restaurants got your money, whether they brought the food to the table.
Or they didn't. Well that's going to attract the most evil people to work at the restaurant over time and you're never going to get the food and they're always going to want more money. So it does visited, or says you're going to get your Foods. You're like, oh my God, the sound of the door says, I'm gonna get my foot. Oh my God, and you can scream this out that all you want. But at the side of the door isn't holding these people accountable and it's kind of useless sign.
So I like the rule on the side of the door. I really enjoy all the Amendments. I enjoy the first amendment. I enjoy the second. I met, it's It was written by a genius. As I'm so grateful that they wrote that because we have a basis for our large part of our ideology, as people who live in more conservative, or libertarian, or even an artist, but what does it actually? Do?
Not much. And I know like at the Supreme Court, you know, things are decided based on the Constitution but not as like not nearly as as many things, not as many things in there, should be. I mean, I feel like you're so many unconstitutional laws these days and nobody really talks about it. Until it comes to like Roe v-- Wade or or whatever the thing it comes to the hop on and she's been so many little things that are just kind of fly Under The Radar. Really pissed me off.
What was your biggest takeaway from Animal Farm by George Orwell? I love that book. I actually read that in high school. So that was maybe like six years ago when I first read it and then I feel like that's what made me like not a liberal anymore because my early teen years. I was definitely leaning more of that. Way, I didn't really know what was going on. I didn't read any political theory. That was my first oral book I've ever read.
Since that I read like mentioning for which, I enjoyed to, but Animal Farm will always be my favorite because again, it's one of those books that I was in high school. So it's one of those books that are high schooler can understand the metaphor of being on a farm and it related to Communism and relating to State, control, and relating to basically the people in charge who are kind of making this planet seems so great.
They're the ones that are, you know, making bank and you're just Kind of a pig on a farm and that's just, that's just all it is. So that's probably why. It's one of my favorite books is again, easy to understand, because I don't like reading and it just it kind of opened my eyes. So it's like a lot of nostalgia
related to that. Yeah. It was definitely one of the books that I read and I started thinking about actual equality, that it's probably not even desirable for everyone to, you know, not have a role in the division of labor and then to excel in their Fields like all the things I love in life are not the result of everyone voting and they're being equal influence. It's like only a few people influence the greatest, you
know, TV shows the architecture. I like the computers I use and then the second thing was just the concept of equality and principle that the people advocating 535 people roll over 300 million strangers. Well, that's the least equal thing. You could think of or the G7 like the most powerful people. People on Earth, the, they're like, we need to build back better and this is going to include. Equality, government, steals five trillion every year. Does anyone else come close to
that? I mean, the biggest Mobsters on the planet. Don't Come Close and they're talking about equality. They make executive orders. We have to obey them, that's equal to them. What a scam. It's totally. It's totally be. As I think that the G7 honestly this relates to any of any of these like global. Groups, I feel the same way about the UN and NATO and
everything. I just it's just like I didn't vote for you people and you guys make your rules for me and you guys are stealing for me. I don't really like that. I feel like it's very simple to understand if you think critically about it for a little bit. So when I talk to people my age, I always bring that up. And I'm like, did you when you were born, did you like sign this supposed social contract? You know, it's a led the government and just take your stuff whenever they feel like it
at gunpoint. They're like, well, no, but you know, My roads, you know, my police who will build my roads and then we started talking about it, but I always start off with something like that. I've started Animal Farm a couple different times, especially to kids, who I went to high school with some, like, I know you remember reading that, like, I know you remember reading that like freshman year of high school. I know, you know what it's
about. So apply it to real life because it is that simple, I think What were your biggest takeaways from The Invisible Thread by yoshiko Lukens? So, that is my favorite book of all time. Actually. It's about, it's a first-hand account of Japanese internment during World War Two, And there's not a lot of literature on that. Um, it was about a girl who is autobiographical girl who I think was maybe in Heist. I think I'm high school during
World War Two and her. Family from California was all uprooted and sent to I think topaz which was in Utah. So basically everyone on the west coast got shoved into like the desert. So they're not even their home state anymore. Sure. The second generation Japanese immigrant had like literally zero ties to any type of spy thing. I think later on, they found out that the only spies for Japan. They found were like white Americans, like they weren't even like Japanese immigrants at all.
So it's just like really crazy. But um, you know, You're researching things like Japanese internment. I feel like history is pretty whitewash. I don't mean that in like a racially way but just like, in a way that's like, you know, they make it sound a lot nicer than it really was. So she talked about living in horse Barracks because she was staying on a repurpose, like force Racetrack and everything was just like nasty and gross.
And it really at a young age. It opened my eyes to like the horrible things. Our country has done, you know, based on people's nationality or race. Yeah, definitely getting those first hands account, sort of like, makes it real, like, if you were to hear about 120,000 were kidnapped and intern or, you know, King Leopold killed, you know, a million people in the Congo. It's really hard one that I never learned about in school. I really had to research that by myself.
It's like it's really hard to make that real in your head killed a million people. But when you see, you know, the cops killing Kelly Thomas or Eric Garner. It's like, wow, that really is a Go of state power. So, it actually gives Credence to the one deaths as a tragedy. A million deaths is a statistic. That's why I think it's so important to read books. Like that. I had never heard of this. This is definitely something I want to look into. But yeah, looking into the
crimes of the state. And, you know, really any person who believes in, who doesn't recognize the self-ownership principle. It's so important because it makes their aggression real and it's so much more motivating than, you know, statistics or anything like that. At any final words on that book. I just highly recommend that anyone read it because it's very interesting. It's not like a boring like historical. It is not a fiction but it starts off.
When she's a child. I really feel minimizes the event because it starts off like, you know, just growing up in a normal American Family. Basically a little bit of, you know, ignorance here and there, but not full-blown of racism until World War Two came around, until the government. Rounded everybody up, treated them, like cattle, you know, gave each family as serial number' stuff like that.
I mean, It makes me it makes me think about the Holocaust how each person was given a number and just taken away from their family and shoved into these Barracks. It just it made me feel horrible to read it because it starts officer innocent, young girl, by the end of the book. She was like this hardened woman who had to get like a special Work Release to even get off of the base where she was at to go.
Be a teacher, and it was just like, I don't know, it's always really hot to me. And so anyone who's interested in learning about Japanese internment or just the culture around World War Two Out. Would highly recommend it and again, it's pretty easy, reads pretty short book. What was the biggest takeaway for you by Boy by Ronald doll. So rolled out is one of my favorite authors ever since I was a kid. So again, there's a lot of nostalgia with that and I also really like autobiographies.
So it's also autobiography and it just talks about him growing up in Europe, mostly Norway and I just really like it's not political at all, so I don't Like relevance this podcast and all, but it's just like one of my favorite all-time books, because I really like, all the other stuff, here is Rin. So I just like reading about authors and stuff.
So, yeah, I'm not sure why I invented an n in the middle of his name, Roald Dahl, you know, I've heard it, but when I wrote this down, I haven't put it in right there. So what do what is the plot of the book? It just kind of goes into again. It starts when he's a kid talks about like a lot of deaths in his family getting sick as a kid moving around schools, a lot because I believe it was his
father who died pretty young. And so he moved from Norway to England, just like hardships going through that and this and talked about how he decided to start writing and Publishing children's books. I like all his books are probably read like every single World Outlook. So yeah, it's just honestly, it's I feel like it's not that interesting unless you're like a big roll dolphin because just like his life and stuff, but I really like it. What was the biggest takeaway from Uncle?
Tom's Cabin by Harriet Beecher Stowe. That's another book. I read in school. I think it might have been my freshman year of college as well. But I really liked it because I had always meant to say, was actually kind of funny because I had always been called like an Uncle Tom and stuff in high school. When I was like, more conservative people, don't know, you're an Uncle Tom. And I was like, what is that means? I read the book. And Uncle Tom's, not even a bad
character in the book. He is like not I don't understand why there's such an evil connotation to it. And so it Biggest takeaway was that it was kind of a compliment to be called Uncle, Tom, because of Korean people didn't read the book, including people, who didn't understand the lesson of
the book. Uncle Tom was a black slave at the time who ended up dying in a pretty, I believe he died at the end of the book, but it was like, it wasn't like the connotation is like a Uncle. Tom has like a sellout looking race traitor, you know, and the, the book completely just like kind of dispelled them, isn't? It was just like, really weird kid was actually a pretty brave. Her in the book. I want to get into some of your influences.
What do you think is a a great contribution that Thomas Massie has made to the Freedom Movement. He says awesome. He's my favorite Congressman. There's really is no one. I think that even comes close to him in terms of US representatives. I like his personality. I like that. He lives off the grid on a ranch with like solar panels and stuff and this is completely like Rely on the government. That is honestly my dream. I dream about having a ranch with solar panels. Honestly.
I like his social media. He post really funny stuff and an educational way, like, he makes libertarianism seem kind of fun to me in a way. So, yeah, I think he's just an inspiration. I think he is proof that there can be Liberty Republicans, because I'm not even a republican, but I've worked on Republican races and people criticize me and be like, well, there's no, there's no true
libertarian to the GPS. Some possible for the return to get to do people, you know, Tom, Thomas Massie, is proof of that. So I feel really inspired by it. Oh, yeah, whenever raw we would do events with turning-point USA or young Republicans at Arizona, State or Grand Canyon University.
There were so many allies there and a lot of them were even and caps who are like, you know what, this is just a big group that I could help influence and we have a lot in common and also it's nice to make friends along the way. I so want to build a vengeance. Republican party and the lp and wherever you can, I don't think that the put all our eggs in one basket, you know, I think we can definitely build coalitions in the Republican Party. Exactly.
And I'm thankful that people love, you know, took the time to speak to me when I was a Democrat when I was first getting into politics, because I never would have been. I never would have been introduced to the ideas in the first place. What was something you learned from Scott, Horton. So, I've been a fan of Scott Warren. This is Last year and I just ordered his book. I haven't got it yet.
I just ordered his book enough already about ending, ending the wars and stuff, and I really wanted to read it. But I've been following social media for a while, but I really consider myself a true fan when I saw him speak in person and Orlando at the Young Americans for Liberty, like Revolution conference, which was about a month ago, and it blew my mind because I already knew I was anti-war at that point. I already knew I was not for the military-industrial.
Complex already knew a lot of the stuff that he was talking about. But again, he broke it down away from me that just really blew my mind and I didn't know about like the sheer numbers of war crimes in the sheer numbers of Civilian deaths and things that when you get really specific make the issue seemed even worse and it is that bad and so when he was getting a just starting off statistics and spine out off facts about just how much money the military-industrial complex
ways. How many people are killed civilians are killed each year by the military industrial complex. That's how many veterans lives are ruined, too, because we provide them like, basically no Aftercare for whatever. I mean, we'd already talked about the VA and how horrible that is, but in terms of mental health as well. We just let them be homeless and, you know, commit suicide, and ruin their lives.
And it's just like, the way he talked about it made me really angry, and I don't get angry in politics that often because I feel like it's bad to have visceral reactions to things just, you know, like, I guess it's like, fax over feelings. When I heard those facts. I became Emotional sitting in the audience and then I actually ran into him, kind of on 9/11, because he was at the end of them. Whereas rally in DC. I don't know who's going to be there. So, I show up there and see
Scott horn. I wasn't fully Starstruck. I wasn't man enough to go up to this guy. Like he doesn't know who I am. I'm not want to bother him. And I heard from other people that he's not like, I don't think it's a grumpy guy, but I heard from people that he's kind of intending to talk to. So I was like, oh man, I really
don't want to bother this guy. So I just let him You know, I'm seeing the audience like reporting his speech because I really wanted to save it for later because again, he did a really great job. And then like the day after I get home. He like DM me on forever. I was like, hey, I'm starting a chance to talk to you. I was like, you know what? I feel so stupid now for not talking to him. But yeah, he's he's influenced
me a lot. And made me a lot more passionate about ending the wars, to be honest. Yeah, so I want to get into what it was that sort of motivated. You to really be against this against the, you know, war machine is such a strong man term against the general foreign policy that the US has had since I don't know, Woodrow Wilson or probably the Spanish-American War. So you mentioned the statistics of us, the statistics of the civilians killed in the overseas Adventures. What? What else was it?
This is God, funny. But back when I was like in high school / like freshman in college. I would like date military guys for some reason, and then they would all say shit. Sorry. I didn't say, I had to be a cousin. You're sorry. Then also, I don't know if I can cause but they were all say stuff like, oh, I just like, can't wait to like, you know, just go over there and like shoot people and like, pick up a guy. I feel like, that's kind of weird.
Like, I don't know. I don't know why you want to do that. And this one guy, he was like. Obsessed with like being on the front lines and picking up a gun when shooting people. And I was like, I don't know. I really don't like that sentiment.
We ended up breaking up and I that I really took a long hard look at it. I was like, why is the military recruiting these kids and telling them they can go over there and kill people and it's acting like they're taking their frustration out just by going around. Telling you I was like damn we are definitely recruiting the wrong types of people and for the wrong reasons, they're really motivated me to really look into a deeper and there.
I think it's something like 90% of drone strike deaths. Are civilian deaths. It's like something crazy like that. And once I knew that I was like, yeah, I cannot, I cannot support this. And at the time I was, I was not a republican, I was so independent, but I was definitely more leading to that side. And then I just, I couldn't deal
with the War mongers. I just couldn't deal with the people that I criticized and Crenshaw pretty frequently because he's a pretty big warmonger and he's a veteran. So, I do like his opinion more than like Ben Shapiro who wants to send kids to die over there and has never served himself, but still. When Dan crunch I was talking about how we should never have class Candace and because they're gonna make another 9/11, or women are not going to have
rides. I'm just, like, 90% of drone strike, does our civilian wheel of billions of dollars of equipment there. We basically armed Taliban, and that's not really the fault of people who wanted to pull out. That's the fault of the people who bashed the pullout. I really think. And this is my conspiracy brain talking, but I really feel like they purposely Bosh, the plot so bad that we would have to go back.
I really believe that. Um, yeah, there's a, it's kind of funny how it's done for me like not liking this guy. I was dating for saying, like crazy stuff about killing people in the Middle East. And then I'd let me to look deeper into it and be like, completely against the military
industrial complex. But like I said, I didn't really get emotional about it until I heard Scott for and talk about it because he just talked about so Much Death and so many war crimes and I was just like it's one of those things that you just don't want to believe that your country that you love is capable of doing, you know, definitely. Yeah, there's something I think it's called the Washington
Monument strategy. So like whenever governments want to you know, really secure their funding. They do something to really hurt the public in order to get the public to sympathize with funding them more. The biggest example was what they tried to do in Waco, which was fake, save a bunch of kids from what they were calling an abusive, you know, religion religious cult. Little did they know that they would actually be met with a
little resistance. And the reason it's the Washington Monument is because when they wanted to cut like 1% of the billions of dollars of parks budgets that most of which is, you know, wasted of course. The first thing they do is they shut down access to the Washington Monument. This way, people who traveled all over to go to Washington, d.c. To see the monument when they were like, oh, well, this is what happens when you want to
cut funding. So we really need to support Funding. They want to make it the most visible thing. They can this way, people are sympathetic. So when you know, lack of military intervention leads to Isis who they explicitly armed, and operation Timber, Sycamore in Syria and Libya and sided with them and Yemen, of course, you know what, when the Taliban gets a bunch of guns and weapons. It's like well too bad. A terrible thing happened. And long story short. We need more power.
Yeah. I'm shocked. I'm sure they'll literally I've dozens of military dogs in cages for to let the Taliban like do whatever they want to them and be like, oh my God, that's how about a star, dogs, crazy to go back. Like yo left. Yo left them there. You botched it. You completely botched. I think we're going to be back within the next five years. To be honest. I had my it's going to be horrible.
One of the big reasons that guys want to go into the military is definitely because, you know, it gets the attention of a lot of good-looking women. If you watch a lot, lot of the, you know, Soldier returns home in a surprise thing, the women tend to be very gorgeous. What do you think about, why do you think it is that women tend to be attracted to the sort of the, the soldier or policeman for me?
So I think I did like to military guys like back to back, but I wouldn't say it's cause they're military. It just so happened. That like, in high school like college. I look exclusively did address or because I was on the wrestling. And a lot of brothers ended wine, the military Justice is a very physically demanding sport and a lot of them are very
conservative. I think a lot of wrestlers at least in my area that a lot of them were like Republican or conservative, just because I my theory about it, is that recipe
takes a lot of hard work. So people have really like clear self up by the bootstraps like very that type of authoritarian mentality or whatever, which is like, I'm not judging that I have kind of a pull yourself up by your bootstraps mentality as well, like personally, so that's why I kind of Starting with military guys, but for other people, I mean, there's a lot of
benefits. I don't know if you heard like the mean like dependent, which is like a military wife, who just wants to depend on, like the Tricare, the benefits, The House of the offices, get to live in all that kind of stuff went to live on base. What that 50%, military discount when I worked at a restaurant. My freshman year of high school or my freshman year of college. We had a 15% military military discount like most restaurants. Do we have a lot of military?
Wise come in and try to use that discount but that's not how it works. It's for veterans or active duty. People in the reserves are people who actually serve. And so, I'm not saying that a lot all military wiser like that, but I would say, the reason that they get married so young stereotypically is because they like the benefits, you know. Well, I mean, it's definitely tempting.
Is there anything unattractive about a guy who signs up for a position and This has to take orders from like the most evil people on earth. Does that ever enter into the equation? Yeah, so that the last military guy that guy did he's actually really great guy, really good guy, but I wasn't like super on board with like the government owning him. So I was just like that's going to anyone say a lot of state is stuff. Like, you know, I just want you know, Uncle Sam like Owens my
ass. Now. I just want to go over there like protect this country and shoot and kill people that are set to this country. I want to fight for freedom. I was looking for Freedom. Look, how are you fighting for freedom? I was genuinely confused, and he could really expand to me and he just wrote me off his deal with it down libertarian. And this is before I even identified as a Libertarian or Nothing, like that was still don't really know what that was.
I was still a conservative, but I was questioning the government and it definitely is, it made me more attracted to him. You know, I was just like, ah, I don't know II. Appreciate guys, for the really individualistic not necessary. Part of like a hive mind, especially when that high of mine is in the government. So, I'm, like, I don't fault anybody for being a veteran. I appreciate veterans. I'm a veteran to be treated better, the whole nine yards,
but there's a certain mentality. Some people have when they want to start to, you know, fighting the military that I just really, really not attracted to. I just really, I feel like I find it very status. Honestly. Did you ever talk to a military member that mentioned, blowback that the reason, you know, Bin Laden and zawahiri are able to recruit people is because of supporting Israel, occupying, Saudi Arabia and Iraq e sanctions in the 90s, did that ever come up? Up or cross their mind.
I don't think I had a conversation that deep with anyone in the military, to be honest. I don't think so. I don't recall. All right, I'm sorry. If going deep on, that was what was annoying. I was just curious. No. No, it's cool. It's cool. I just think it's funny. How me like the Journey of me. Like realizing the Eagles, a military industrial complex was like, did a military guy who's like really, really liked it. And I was like, I don't really
mess with that. So yeah, what Was, what are some major things you learn from the work of Spike Cohen? I love Spike spike is like my favorite person to hear speak. I watch like a ton of his podcast and stuff. He was on my podcast like several months ago and I met him in person in Miami like two weeks ago. I was at monster a solution or Summit. I was on a panel as a speaker. I told IDM Spike. I was like, are you trying to pull up to this guy's lawyer in
Miami on the same weekend? It was like Labor Day weekend, I think and he was like, yeah. I've been my wife Tasha. And I was like, okay cool. So we actually put on I'm really expecting to, and we're like best friends. Now. We're just talking about like libertarian stuff, his most amazing, like a bunch of, like dumb dad jokes. Now, there's a running joke that I'm his daughter because honestly, if I stand next to any like interracial couple, I just look like their kids.
So I was standing next to Tasha and Spike Absolution Airy Summit and they had they left because I had to go to different events because that's me as like are those our parents love it. I was like, yes. Those are my parents. And so the next night I get dinner with him at this Pro like freedom for Cuba, an event, which was also ran by some Libertarians down in Miami. And we ended up taking a selfie with him and his wife and I just posted it on Twitter with the
caption. Oh my God, my parents came to see me the solution area Summit and he quotes we did. It say that. Oh, we would do anything for you like hashtag family, and not everything sets of iPhone is my dad. So he's less of an influence now and more of a father. You're so to speak. So that's, that's a great segue to what you got to go from stranger to friend to Father Figure. That's yeah, but I really that some games, kiddo. I'm with Tasha and humor. I like I, it's so believable.
It's it looks so real. It's so funny. He's far as if you had to pick, you know, well one person to run in the lp for president. Not because oh, we're going to win sometime soon. For the sake of Using it as a platform to communicate the idea of freedom to people. Who would you prefer Spike Owen or Dave Smith?
Our first bite Cullen. It's not really a distant dismissed by it is just I think very good at explaining things to people and I just maybe have a washing off of Dave, Smith's content by just going to spice, probably better at that and spice to this thing to me. I think he said it before online and stuff, but he really wants to appeal to like the average Suburban soccer mom. Because if you could explain things to that, Was Suburban soccer mom?
They will go on Facebook and they will be very, very passionate about it. And you can just take over the country by explaining things to like the norm easiest of the normies. And I don't think Dave Smith appeals to the normies that much. And that's where again, it's not any shade towards him. He's just a little bit more edgier and his fan base is a
little bit more edgier. I follow the guy like I again, it's not like me having a problem with him, but I do think that spike is pretty valuable at engaging with the general populace, you know. Yeah, I was at a Libertarian meet up at at the beer Research Institute and Germany.
Todd and myself were like very hard in the Dave Smith camp and I think like every single other person their wanted Spike Owen to run over Dave and their main, their main criticism was that Dave is not as sensitive to, you know, gay groups, transgender groups. You know, the the African American issue, you know, black studies, this kind of thing. Not that the progressives are right about it. They're wrong about almost every aspect of it.
But that Dave showed like no sympathy at all where a spike does and still thinks that he has a better approach to it. Do you see that at all, or that I just happened upon a people all of whom were wrong, and I'm not saying that this myth is a ray. This time off of whatever, but Spike does do a better job at communicating to those demographics. I understand Dave is probably not trying to do that. And a lot of people on the
right, those tips. Oh, well, that's identity politics without understand that most of our Graphics are not going to give up identity politics. You just have to appeal to that. So, addressing issues that the black community specifically, has addressing issues at the gay community, specifically has. I don't think there's a negative 2. I think it's actually necessary to win an election and Honestly, when I met so I didn't talk about any like, racial or like, like gay issues or anything like
that. So I don't think it's something that he puts it like the Forefront. That was personally, but he can talk about and he can relate to people. He can go into the hood and can go into urban communities and really, really relate and I can tell that he's genuine when he does that. What are some of the biggest things you learned from Hannah Cox. So Hannah, as you probably know, is at fee as well. She is one of my My bosses. And before I worked at fee, I really, really liked her on
social media. I've been following her for well, over a year. Pretty sure. Probably closer to two years and I just thought she was really, really just a really strong. I had to use like the cliche but look really strong independent women. Like she really just seemed like she knows she was talking about, she produces her own content. She deals with the haters online and we don't even agree on everything.
I think she's more of a progressive libertarian than I am. But I just love seeing women and like a male dominated political space. Like really succeed and really thrive in really not care what people think about them and really put their ideas out there because my ideas, maybe more, maybe, maybe more controversial. I don't really know but you generally has controversial ideas. This is not popular for a younger woman to be a Libertarian. So I decide I really appreciate it for that.
And then she had reached out to me, several months back and asked me to apply for the Haslett Fellowship. So, I did, and now we work pretty closely together. I've met her. I also met her at the Americans, for Liberty event in Orlando. Really nice. What do you think are some of her best topics? I know. I know that I scrolled through her fee page. Some time ago. She wrote a nice little piece on every time. Rand Paul is faced fauci. But Paul has gotten the best of
them and it's like everything. It's like every six months Paul and fauci face off and Rand has proven, right? Like within a month. What do you think? Are us some of her best things if I want to look more into her. So we coauthored a really good article I think too.
They're about the racist history of gun control in America, and it was aimed to dispelled this article from the ACLU saying that the Second Amendment is racist and that it appeals to like white supremacist essentially, which was like that wasn't stupid. I mean, it was kind of like, it was kind of like a knockout article just because the premise was so like literally just so dumb, but she didn't like
really, really fantastic job. Like breaking it down because I had wrote more about the history. History like the history of gun control and how racist it actually was but she went and took a further analysis about it. I just thought like the way I am really trying to get to where she is at her level of Journalism though. She just breaks down topics with so much ease. But so specifically, I just, I just, I think she's great at writing about it.
So, gun control is one of the issues where I would like to see more articles from her on and you will had also mentioned that your grandfather was very inspirational to where you are. Now, what were some of Rob biggest influences or some of the biggest takeaways you got from your grandfather. So, my grandfather is one of the most amazing people. I know, I'm not just because you're my grandfather, but he's an Air Force, veteran. He grew up during segregation.
I, he's told me many stories about being being discriminated against looking to try to get lunch or on public transportation. When he's literally in his full dress, like Air Force, uniform and people don't Really care, if you're black, they didn't trust you with equal, even if you were actively serving your country. And so that really opened my eyes to race relations in this country, how hard it was?
Where we came from. And really made me appreciate my grandfather's generation, just like so much more hearing about that kind of stuff. He later became a civil rights activist it or advocate. He worked in. I believe it was d.c. Government. I'm working to provide like equal opportunities for public transportation for minorities here. So, I just be huhs. Very, very inspirational and later. He became an author and it's funny because I'm pretty sure you both Democrat, but we agree
on, like, 90% of the issues. And I'm just like, you know, what, all black and we're just gonna vote Democrat and there's nothing I can do to change that, but I we're still going to have great conversations about politics and he's still huge inspiration to me. So yeah. All very often whatever politics is involved in something. It becomes totally corrupted. Even if there are genuine, you
know, issues in a certain area. So people are ignorant, but the, you know, government schools are of course, not the answer terrorism exists, but the war on terror is evil and counter productive. Of course, there have been terrible game is treatment historically, but you know, the lgbtq Democratic Alliance is a complete fraud, all this
terrible nonsense. If You are able to communicate any racial issues without, you know, having the, you know, million Progressive lies that usually come along with it. What would you say is something important that people should know about the racial issue or any history with regard to America? Yeah. So one of the most, one of the things I'm most passionate about is is the Second Amendment even though I'm like not a constitutionalist anymore, but the thing is how useless but I
Am Second Amendment absolutist. I do think that gun control are like any little bit of gun control. Whether it be a bum, stock ban or a semi-automatic weapon ban or open carry, but I think that's all an infringement. And so that goes back to what I was telling you about the article that I wrote with Hannah Cox about the racist, history of gun control. And I really enjoy talking about how existing gun control legislation we have today was
originally written to disk. Franchise black people, specifically, like, how open carry is a, is banned in California, because Ronald Reagan didn't like that. The black bears were cop watching while open carrying in their neighborhoods. So, I talked about that a lot and I really emphasize this to conservatives and liberals because it appeals to them in different ways. Consumers, do not like gun control, but a lot of them will say, oh well, racism is a probably more sign affecting
people today. Systemic racism is a real and I reject that notion because there are systems of Oppression who like gun control, I think, The abortion industry is / Planned Parenthood is another one. I think the War on Drugs is another one that laws and policies and institutions were put into place to affect black people disproportionately. And now today this tree they do affect everybody but I do think they still affect Urban and black communities more.
So, so I do talk about that pretty frequently. And when I try to appeal to liberals, I'm like, hey, you guys hate racism, right? Well, here is a law that disproportionately affects black people and it's not about affirmative action or anything crazy. It's literally about our constitutional rights. So that's what I like to bring up, often. Do you have an elevator pitch? Let's, let's talk about the left and the right. If you had like a quick elevator
pitch, for why? Someone who was a leftist why they should embrace the freedom ideology. What would you say to them in a short amount of time? I would say anything. I would say that freedom is the most closest to equality, you can get because they always talk about Equity. They always talk about equality, but I think that the only form of equality that is truly equal. Is the equality of opportunity? You, there is no equality of
outcome. You can't have somebody over your head controlling the outcome. That's just not how anything works. If you look at history. That's not how it works. We already talked about animal farm and the premise of that is We have this great plan and everyone's going to be equal ever to have a great time, except we're rich up here and you guys are all equally poor and that's generally how it works. So I've definitely spoke to a
few more liberal friends. I want to say as I've convinced hardcore left as it was just because I don't really have hardcore left as friends, but my more liberal friends who are saying stuff like, oh man, like I just hate the government, can't trust the government. I'm like, that is a great starting point. Let's let's talk about that more because you are in favor of universal.
Cecil Healthcare, so, let's talk about how much you hate the government, and why you wouldn't want them in your health care. So I usually talk about distrust of the government, and equality of opportunity, as opposed to just overall equity. And what would be your elevator pitch of freedom to someone on the right? Who is very comfortable with large amount of government, whether they're a populist or a
conservative. I think it's a lot easier to feel to the right at least for me just because I lean more, right? Like I'm not not a little left. Libertarian at all. So a lot of people on the right. Like I said, they're very anti gun control. They really don't like the state messing with the covid. Lockdowns masks, vaccine mandates, gun control. They just really, really hate that. I'm just like, okay, just apply the same logic to a bunch of other stuff because you may not like marijuana.
I understand that you may not like marijuana, but you can look at history and see how prohibition of alcohol. Ajal turned out and a lot of conservatives have no problems at all. And even if they do have a personal problem with it there nobody is in favor of criminalizing it or throwing people in jail over it. So I decide, you know, apply the same thing to look a million other subjects and then you're there.
Some consumers are very comfortable and they know they have cognitive dissonance about it and they know their little bit hypocritical about it and they just don't care because
they're stuck in their ways. I don't really spend a lot of time trying to appeal to those people because they understand their status, their educated on what that means and they just don't Here, but what I will do is talk to people who are kind of Conservatory in' or maybe, you know, moderate Republican and it's a lot of trump supporters for I can actually peel too because Trump was, like, The Outsider like
anti-establishment candidate. I saw a lot of people who are pro Liberty voting for Trump to kind of infiltrating the Republican party. So I feel like it's weird. The time is kind of ripe to actually poach a bunch of Republicans and be like, hey, there's more freedom over here. Here, you don't have to be in the GOP. But like I said before, we have people like master your people, like Rand Paul. So I wouldn't say abandoned the Republicans completely, but don't put all your eggs in one
basket with them. It's amazing helper Asian. The state just gets in its criminality. I don't know. Did you see yesterday on Twitter? There was a great clip going around Rand. Paul was asking secretary blank and he goes. Are you sure that the guy killed was a member of Isis K? Or if he was an aide. And he says, we're actually reviewing that as we speak. So, Rand Paul says, well, shouldn't you do that before the
Drone strike? The point is, it's amazing that they are able to get away with such terrible losses. And then blend Michael Knowles is like, oh, well, the Libertarians are against, you know, civilization and order. It's it's like the most destructive disorderly group of criminals. You could ever come across. Yeah, it's funny. Because I don't even, I don't even dislike my from those. I find it hard to dislike, people just over political disagreements. I follow him. Some of his tweets.
I like some of them, most of my don't like, but it's like, whatever, you know, but it's the, it's the tweets about it from like from like more populist. Conservatives and Republicans be like, oh, Libertarians ruin everything. Like what have Libertarians with in charge of what did Libertarians ruin? What are you talking about? Like, literally, what are you talking about? So like when he's post up like that, I just have to laugh. Oh, the picture.
Is our anti-isil weather. Sent our civilization right now is killing innocent people. So whatever is not doing that. I'm with that. I don't know about y'all, but I'm I'm not with 90% civilian deaths with drone strikes. I'm just not worth that self ownership and private property. Me sis was writing about being the root of civilization.
I don't know why people think that Libertarians an entire civilization, even an artist, but I'm not, I don't think that anarchists are Auntie is civilization II, really, I Jenna, I really don't believe him. There are some people like that, but a lot of, in caps that I've talked to, they're just like we want to live in communities. We don't want to be all alone. We want to have neighbors. We want to build coalitions, we want to do business with each
other. We want to help each other just without the state, but I think, Anarchy and Liberty and libertarianism has such a negative connotation that people are like, oh my God. This is the chaos everywhere. People just want to route and rot leader Ryan and this is really horrible. Like that's not what it is. But I think that there's a like a very Ultra conservative scare tactic. That a lot of people use like, oh my God, Liberty libertarian fantasy is going to be like,
it's like the one being. That's what the returns don't want to education center. I'm like, I don't know, a single libertarian that believes that people who are true Libertarians, believe that an adult to give it a bit of a child violence non-aggression principle. That's pretty much. The basis of the non-aggression principle is don't don't harm children.
So I really don't understand it. But again, it's the fear tactics from people, you know, like Michael knows who again, No, no shade, no tea, no hate but it's definitely uneducated. I think on what Libertarians actually believe they have so
much nerve. I mean, it's bad enough, you know, like ALC saying tax the rich increase Government funding after the biggest, you know, blunder in Afghanistan, which is the most favorable interpretation, but even but, but then when they say, you know, that we don't care about the treatment of children and all the kids murdered in these Wars, all the kids separately. Did from their parents because of, you know, truancy legislation.
All the kids who don't have opportunities because of the minimum wage laws and were like the anti kid political ideology. It's so bizarre. Now, they'd rather fear monger, and be like, this is what this is, your kid libertarianism. And it's like it just like smoking weed likes doing drugs and stuff. Here's your kid on, statism a dead child from all the senses. I know so many Libertarians adult smoke. We don't do drugs.
It is want your freedom. Did they just I want to see people in jail for it, but people act like we're all DeGeneres. I personally am a degenerate but there's so many people who aren't that. I just like I shouldn't I shouldn't I shouldn't represent the majority who are actually really nice like upstanding gentlemen, we have a few minutes left.
How about the concept of religious people saying that who just actually identify as religious hardly, you know, they tend to be Orthodox Christians where they say religion is vitally important. And libertarianism is atheism, missing something big. I guess this would, you know be someone like Michael Knowles as well where he explicitly, you know, defends Catholicism and defends the state. You have any words of wisdom or an elevator pitch for someone who is both a Christian and a statist.
So I used to be pretty hardcore Christian. I kind of went away from that as I got older just because I mean, as somebody who's, like, lgbtq it just like, did I really? I just it just didn't really mesh that. Well, once I like kind of figure that out, like in like, middle school year, so I was like, yeah, I can do this anymore. However, like I said before, I do see the Merit and like, believing in a higher power believing in something bigger than yourself, finding a purpose.
That's not the state and not, you know, serving some selfish interest. However, I just think if your religion is that good, you shouldn't need the threat of, you know, a gun at, you know, Handed the state to enforce it. So, you know, gay marriage for example being illegal because a lot of religious people didn't like it.
If your religion said good, you wouldn't need the state to enforce it. You should just be able to bring people to God or bring people to Jesus or bring people to your religion just by being nice and just by talking to them and changing lives. And I this is no hate the Christians. I like Christians. Um, I like the church. I grew up in to be honest and Christians, dude, like do a lot of Charity. Do a lot of donation to a mission trip.
Oops, that is all great. And I think Christians are a good example of how people can help each other and being neighborly through each other without redistribution of wealth and taking a bunch of taxes and sending it to the Clinton Foundation, or whatever like BS, charity that they want us to donate to. So I actually do like, religious
people for that reason. So I just think we just need more of that, less of the state and it's hard to appeal to people who are again, like Michael knows who understands, I believe, I don't think it's too big. I think you understand. He's a statist.
So I wouldn't spend a lot of time trying to convince somebody who is very religious and pretty kind of like somewhat authoritarian that, you know, we shouldn't be enforcing this for the state because they already there be no, it's a little hypocritical and they're just cool with that. But to people who are just kind of like, you know, regular Christians who may be like moderate Republicans. I would make the case that hey you do. It's like you may not be okay with your children, smoking
weed. That's Totally acceptable. I completely see your point of view, but you wouldn't want somebody to be shot and killed over it. It's like the whole, um, it's not the Eric Garner situation because he was selling, I think loose cigarettes, right? And that's not a religious thing. I do believe you are against me, but nobody really cares about
loose cigarettes. And for me, that definitely, I definitely saw a shift in people's thoughts about government bureaucracy and regulations because I liked was even know that, that was illegal. They're like what? It's so loose cigarette, like that's ridiculous. And so when I wanted to bring that up and be like, okay, well drugs do kill people. I totally understand that drugs cause a lot of pain, a lot of hardship being addicted to something.
That's, that's a horrible thing. But the state has completely mismanaged the treatment of this and it just shouldn't be having people should be being killed over it at the hands of the state. And so I just applied to a lot of different issues that religious people get their pay. He's in a bunch of about the one thing that I don't know how to talk to people about is abortion because I definitely definitely leaning more pro-life a lot of Libertarians don't.
So I really don't know how to talk about. It's not even an issue. I talked about very often just because it's so polarizing, you know, yeah. As far as communicating to, you know, the Catholics or Christians. I always like to just plant the seed of if human beings are the result of God. Intentional creation and thou shalt not murder. And thou shalt not steal a couple, non-aggression principles in the Ten Commandments.
Well, isn't it? Almost the ultimate crime to initiate violence against God's creation? Isn't that a bit of a slap in the face to this all-knowing? Omniscient deity and saying it with all that respect. I know that it plants a seed. I've gotten multiple emails from people who have said, that's how I was really able to align them because they feel it was feel like we're saying ditched This thing you love and come to us. Instead.
When all you have to do was it's like an add-on where where you just don't believe the state should have rollover Christians or anyone else. That's what the state is. They're trying to be the supreme authority. They're trying to be God on Earth. They write words down on paper. And if you don't abide by their Commandments, they cage you and shoot you. If you resist, that's them trying to be God on Earth.
That's an overweight. I mean that would convince me if I was more well-versed in Christian theology on, probably be able to make a better argument. And being like Hey, this isn't the Bible and that we shouldn't do this and that and the government is actually doing this that in that. So you actually put it in a really a really good simple way. I just haven't been religious in like I don't know since I was like in middle school.
So well, I want to thank everyone for watching the libertarian Institute and keep my don't tread on anyone links to well. Olivia's, link tree and Twitter Youtube will be in the description below. Olivia. Thank you so much for your time. It's been a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.