New Book OBLITERATES War on Terror Narrative. Scott Horton & Keith Knight

We don't oppose the state's Wars because they'll be counterproductive or overextend the states forces. We oppose them because mass murder based on lies can never be morally. Acceptable. Welcome to Keith's night. Don't tread on anyone today. I have Scott Horton, the author of enough already. Time to end the war on. Terrorism Scott. Thank you for your time, man. Thank you, Keith for having me buddy. The link to purchase. The book will be in the description below. Scott. I'm curious.

What is wrong? With United States fighting a war against terrorism, a murderous tactic responsible for an estimated twenty one thousand deaths annually. According to our world in data. Yeah. Well, I mean look, terrorism by its dictionary. Definition is absolutely horrible. I mean, it means the murdered the real definition of it.

And it's, you know, vastly overused and abuse, the real term means violence deliberately inflicted against innocent civilians in Order to provoke a political reaction of one kind or the other, right? So by definition it's the most heinous premeditated crime of murder, you know. At there's no argument around that.

So that's what it means, you know, well virtually always right the bosk, separatist set off a bomb next to a concrete wall that they found in an hour before what, you know, to kind of make a point but not really hurt anyone. So there is some like very low Oh level type terrorism like that, but almost always it means, you know, inflicting you no pain or death on innocent people. So, you know, absolutely, it's a problem in the world.

But the problem with our war on terrorism, of course, is it's begging the question and I don't mean raising the question. I mean it's in the the turn, the logical fallacy sends, its assuming the conclusion that fighting against terrorism will destroy terrorism. When in fact or Even more to the point that hiring the US national government to fight terrorism for us will weaken and Destroy terrorism on our behalf. And that's just a huge mistake. It's just not true.

The reality is, as I explained in the book, The USA started it, our government started it, their policy of domination of the Middle East. They provoked terrorism as a consequence, a side effect of the policy. And once the terrorism comes, then they say well now, We have a war on terrorism and they claim that their policy dominance in the Middle East is to fight terrorism. When in fact, the policy of dominance came first and is the direct cause of it. And frankly, you know, this is

just not a controversial point. This is having to remember that. That was what Noam Chomsky said, when Ron Paul stomped Rudy Giuliani in the Republican primary debate in May of 2007, when Ron Paul explained blow. Eck and how we've been bombing Iraq for 10 years from bases, in Saudi Arabia, and that's why they attacked us. And then somebody interviewed Noam Chomsky and said, well, what do you think about this Republican Congressman saying this?

And he said, well, I'm sorry, but that's just a completely uncontroversial Point. That's just a fact, like the sky's Blue, Man. Everybody knows that no serious academic disputes that no one who's ever read a word of what Osama Bin Laden. And Ayman al-zawahiri wrote and said about what they were doing and why they were doing it would dispute that. Everybody knows that.

Except the people who don't know anything about it, and received the lies of their government that they hate us as George w--. Bush? Really did say this. They hate our freedom. They hate us because we're free. That was the quote. They hate us because we are free. That's what it is that they can't stand. Well, come on, that's just stupid. And but what he's really saying is, nevermind the past. It doesn't matter, even what Bill Clinton had done, right? Like if George Bush had been

honest, man. He could have said, listen Bill Clinton's policies continuing on the ones that he picked up from

my father, George h.w. Bush. Those policies had consequences and now yes, we're going to hunt down the guys who organized this attack on our city and we're going to murder the hell out of them or even better yet capture them and try them and then, you know Murder them in the gas chamber with a needle after being convicted in a court of law, as according to the law of our land for the crime that they have committed, but we're not going to sit here.

Come on. You can't pretend that the 1990s never happened. You can't pretend that September 11th is First day of the history of the United States and but, you know, when Ron Paul talked, about blowback with Giuliani one, part of it that he didn't mention is the cia's definition of blowback is not just consequences, its consequences of secret foreign policies. So that when the consequences come do the American people don't have a rational explanation for what's happening.

And September 11th obviously is a huge example of that.

But if you rewind a few steps to how come we had to have our bases in Saudi Arabia, in the First place, it was to contain a rack and ran we had to contain a ran because of their massive, of course, Infamous shiite-led revolution in 1979 and the installation of the Ayatollah Khomeini and the burning of the American flag and the accusation that we are, the great Satan, The Taking of our hostages at the embassy, Jimmy Carter's disgrace and removal from office by the American people for his

inability, to stand up to the situation. At our Center. All of that was the direct consequence of a secret CIA coup d'etat policy that took place in 1953. So 26 years later when the revolution came and they said, you're the great, Satan, the American people. So what have we ever do to you? Obviously, their problem is that they're Shiites. Their problem, is that there are rain Ian's. The problem is that they're Muslims. That problem is that they hate Christians.

They hate white people. They hate Jews. Jews. They hate innocence and they are the aggressors. Because the Ted Koppel founded the show, Nightline to cover the hostage crisis, all the way through for months on end. And if it ever came up, it very rarely came up and it was never the point that we all accept and understand that this is the consequence of Ike, Eisenhower and Allen Dulles has policy of overthrowing the democratically elected government of Iran in 1953.

When they were not leaning pro-soviet. They just wanted more any really of the British as profits that they got from selling their oil and for daring to stand up to the British. The Americans took advantage of the situation and overthrew that government. So that's blowback consequences from Secret foreign policies. So why we get attacked on September 11th, well and occupy Saudi Arabia to help contain Iran.

After we had back Saddam in Iraq for eight years and his War to contain Iran. After that was over, then we attacked Iraq. Iraq and a dispute with Kuwait over War debts. Oops. And so now, since Iraq was too weak to contain Iran. We had to stay in Saudi to contain them both which is why Bin Laden hired, those Egyptians to fly those planes into those towers and kill those people. And that's how we got here. Right? That is the deal. Jimmy, Carter, Ronald Reagan, h.w., Bush, Bill Clinton.

They created this group of enemies. I left out the part, which everybody knows Carter, and Reagan. Back the mujahideen in Afghanistan in the The up, create this movement, then they stab them in the back, provoke them to turn against us and then they did nothing to protect the American people from their violence. And when they come and hit us, they say, aw, geez, now is the first day in the universe. They only hate you because of how much you love your mom.

And so now we have no choice but to wage a total war against as you put it, a tactic. And which means in other words, you know, like pulling the wool over your eyes, trying to obfuscate who it is, that we're fighting George w--. Bush on September 11th, didn't use the word out kada. So we're going to war against Terror. He gave a speech to Congress. What? 89 days later where he named it? The American global war on

terrorism. I forgot if you use Global or not, but anyway, the war on terror. It was never defined as the war against al Qaeda. A group of men, who can be found who exists in time and space and can be held to account for the thing that they did. Nope. This was their opportunity to say, you know, who attacked us them over there. As Dick Cheney, put Iraq is sort of the geographical center base of, where this type of radicalism comes.

Um-huh, Iraq is well, sure. Like, if you zoom all the way out to like, from looking at Earth from the Moon and you're saying, yeah, it's somewhere right around there Arabia, Mesopotamia. The Middle East as opposed to say China Siberia, South America, right? Yeah, that sort of kind of relatively geographical sort of Center, and he knows that your Uncle Bob doesn't know the difference between Saudi and Egypt and Iraq over there. Which one is which on the map? What what shape?

They might even take on the map or what difference does it make? It's them a rabs over there that Muslims over there they started it and now we got to finish it and then that becomes a blank check. Of course for the for the, As I said, the original policy of dominance to, you know, double and triple down. And then of course the story is that as its played out over the last 20 years, that our government doesn't really give a damn about Arcade and Tourism at

all. Not only is it not a war against them? Although I mean with a couple of

small exceptions. It's been a war against them but it's almost entirely a war against secular regimes Abdullah Saleh in Yemen Muammar Gaddafi in Libya, Saddam Hussein in Iraq and half regime change against Bashar al-assad in Syria and these and boy, they've sure threatened regime change against the Shiite authorities in Iran, which is exactly what Osama Bin Laden would have loved to. He can, you imagine Persia thrown into chaos and the Shiite government.

They were overthrown. And in fact, Bin Laden wasn't as partisan against the Shiites as Abu musab al-zarqawi, and some of the others. But still turning Persia into a boiling cauldron of sectarian War where the most radical right-wing Bin Laden night, Sunni types, have that entire area to grow in strength, and, and influence, absolutely on

their wish list. And so, So as I write in the book, America has accomplished far more of al-qaeda's mission than they could have ever dreamed of accomplishing on their own. And it and see people accuse me. Sometimes Keith of saying that poor Bush was fooled. If only wasn't a dummy, he meant well, but they tricked him into overreacting. Now, that's not what I said. And what I try to make very clear, is that Bin Laden being the cynic and the crafty politician that he was.

He knew that his goal and Our goal as he said in the first place before the fact was to give the American government a crisis to exploit, he knew that they wouldn't just come after him. He knew they would go to war against Afghanistan and that was what he was trying to do. Was get us to replicate the Soviets Folly of the Afghan war of the 1980s. And so he would have never dreamed. I don't think that we'd go after the Socialist Infidel Saddam Hussein.

Shane as Osama Bin Laden called him or any of this other stuff. And at this point, if they were really fighting directly for Al-Qaeda, all along. I'm sort of like a reverse truth. It right.

Instead of the al-Qaeda works for the CIA America's been at Al qaeda's beckon call this whole time, fighting this war for them and and there's really nothing more we could do for them at this point other than put Ayman al-zawahiri on the throne in Cairo or you know outright overthrow the kingdom in Saudi Arabia and install the religious.

In charge, in Saudi Arabia, like those two things would be the absolute ultimate, you know, mate and Checkmate of this whole thing, but we've done everything. But that you've done, everything short of that so far in the war supposedly against these terrorists key. Sorry for the long answer, but that's the answer. That's the depth of that, that we're going for. So we actually are able to trace a lot of Bin Laden's, own words, back to around 1995, with his first letter, to King four.

Odd in Saudi Arabia. What can we learn from looking at? The actual words, speeches, documents fatwas and interviews of Bin Laden. Do we see that? They hate us? Because we are not, we have not embraced Islam or for other reasons. Yeah. No, it's all about the policy. He's absolute and and you can read. As you said his letter to King fahd, you can read his declaration of war. These are all first person is declaration of war. Against the Americans occupying, the land of the two, holy

places. That's the title of the damned thing. Keith. Okay. I know, you know, but that's not very subtle when it comes down to it. And of course, in 1998, was the declaration of war against Jews and Crusaders, which is almost a carbon copy of the 1996, declaration of war and it's all about the policy. And you can also read his interviews with Robert Fisk and his interviews with John. Or from ABC News Peter Bergen and Peter Arnett separately from CNN.

And oh, and you absolutely, I know you'll love this. The secret history of Al Qaeda by Abdul Bari at one, and he is the editor and the publisher of the British Journal, alquds all our be and he interview Bin Laden for three days. Wrote all about it in the guardian and then wrote this whole book about it and man. It's just as clear as anything else in the world, man, you know, if they Eat this. It's sort of like with banking, right? You know what Keith? You're no mathematician, your no

billionaires son. You didn't go to Harvard Business School. Just leave this stuff to The Experts, man. It's a bit too complicated for you to grasp like right away. You smell a rat right there, trying to make this where, you know, this is just leave it to the experts will tell you etcetera like that. They won't just lay it out. Plain as day, if they laid out. If you lay it out, in plain English.

It's pretty easy to understand. And it's the same thing with Bin Laden and all of his Things in all of his interviews and

everything. He said in all of the years leading up to the September 11th attack and all of his speeches and statements afterwards is that they were, you know, motivated, one of the things here's like, I guess this is sort of an anecdote with in this tale is that when Saddam invaded Kuwait. Osama Bin Laden believed that the Americans had deliberately tricked him into doing that. And in fact, you could make that case. Now, I make the case in the book, that that was not what

happened. It was really more of a failure to communicate between the American departments, but they were very much sending mixed and contradictory signals to Saddam Hussein and the Kuwaiti royalty in a way that really did help to precipitate that crisis and lead to Hussein's invasion of that country. Will Bin Laden was call them a truther about it. He thought that this was all deliberate that America snared Saddam into the Trap.

So they could put their troops in Saudi Arabia as the excuse to force him. Well, he volunteered his men. He was an important leader of the Arab Afghan faction of the mujahideen and he had essentially inherited the entire Abdullah azzam Group after the Afghan war there. And I don't know if he was merging with Egyptian Islamic Jihad by then or not. I guess not.

I guess I was a little bit later but still he had enough of these guys and he offered to go to Kuwait and expel the araki's which there's not a bunch of mountains and caves to hide in in Kuwait. I don't know if they probably would have done very well. Well again saddam's Army honestly, but the king told him. No, and let h.w. Bush, put a white and Black and Hispanic Christian Army on the

land of the two. Holy places, which, you know, Mecca and Medina, these are the two holiest sites in Islam.

And, you know, I mean, I think this is important and again, it's very easy to understand and relate to take a couple of American, you know, iconic locations like say, for example, Two point that Benedict Arnold tried to sell out to the British during the Revolutionary War or the Alamo in San Antonio, where the texicans were slaughtered by the Mexicans, when they were trying to steal Texas from them and, and what that, what those

sites mean to the Americans? Imagine now some foreign Nation, invading Texas and trying to occupy San Antonio and take that Alamo and see if Three Anglo in this state doesn't take his rifle and hop in his pickup truck and head that way. This is simple, as that. There's nothing you could do to stop. It would be a wave of blood and lead and violence and screams, right? Forget it. Same thing with New York.

Think the people in New York. I'm going to allow a foreign Nation come and SEC West Point or the. And, and even if the other 50 states wouldn't help or with the people of New York shoot, whoever it was to death and They were all dead. The people. I don't know about New Yorkers. I know Texans. If they had to would hijack, Saudi planes and crash them into buildings. If that was what it took to get

them the hell out of our state. If they were occupying our state, this is no different than that. And that means, especially if our governor had advised them. Oh, you want to build a military base in South Texas, so you can bomb Mexico from it all the time, huh? And, you know, no, we're just wood. Absolute would not put up with that. Well now double that because now imagine if Jesus Christ had been born in San Antonio. Or in West Point, New York.

And that's not just our Fort that our guys fought for one time. It's where the super majority of America's religion came from. And what do you think we would do? We've killed two million people over there in response to them. Killing 3,000 of ours. What would we do, if they were doing to us what we were doing to them again before? September 11th, not a reaction, to September 11, but what we were doing to them before September 11th, Americans would go absolutely insane.

With murderous rage do the same thing. Put the shoe on the other foot, in Israel and Palestine. If it was the Palestinian Muslims and Christians, who rounded up all the Jews and put them in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank under military occupation. Shannon, razor wire and regular bombing campaigns. You think that'd be okay. Now. Don't worry. We're going to negotiate a two-state solution, someday, Keith, ya know, obviously. No, it's the definition of Injustice.

Look at the same thing with picking a fight with Russia and Eastern Europe. If Ronald Reagan had bankrupted America, and we lost the Cold War and we lost our NATO alliance and the Soviet Union had rolled into France and Germany and West, Germany, France, and Spain and Netherlands in the rest of the Western Europe and taken it. And then they expanded their Warsaw Pact. Military Alliance to Latin America to Mexico.

Started putting tell me if you heard this one before missiles in Cuba. What do you think the Americans would do, right. We already have a taste to that Jack. Kennedy said I will start fucking nuclear war. Get your missiles out of Cuba. I'll kill all of us. If you don't get your missiles out of Cuba. That's virtually a direct quote.

Okay, not exactly. But that was that was the stand that we absolutely will not accept this that you put nuclear missiles in Cuba, which, by the way what difference does it make? If they're in Cuba or anywhere else? It doesn't. And by the way, Kennedy had precipitated that crisis when he put all those medium-range missiles in Turkey in the first place. So anyway, but it's the same thing. You put the shoe on the other foot here. There's no mystery.

Whatsoever. If the Saudi religious authorities were occupying, our country. Our right-wing Christian extremists would be the first ones to Kamikaze planes into their towers until shit change the other way. And if and if we were so weak and they were so powerful compared to us that the only thing we could do would be to bait them into invading the American South until we could bog them down and bleed them to bankruptcy and force them out the hard way. 20.

From now. Well, then we do it like that. Yeah, we never give up, would we? And you mentioned that that's actually a well-known tactic. It's not just projection. It's actually a document you Source by zbigniew Brzezinski, a former National Security adviser who talks about giving the Soviet Union there Vietnam by bringing them in deliberately to Afghanistan and and provoking an invasion there. So this is not just you know, the first guy to come up with this idea was Bin Laden, this is

generally understood. And by the way to let me, let me say real quick. Let me say real quick, heat. If people go to Scott, Horton, dot-org. / fair use, that's where I keep all the stuff that I poach from others. And that is, you will find there that PDF files of the documents that you're talking about. There was a big new presents key says, to Jimmy Carter National Security advisor. Now, we have the opportunity of giving the Soviet Union there. Vietnam War. It's right there.

And then Ronald Reagan doubled down. I think it was, you know, one of the 166 Department memo in 1983 where he authorized sending Arms to the isi in Pakistan to then fund the mujahideen. This is, this is not just a Democrat or Republican thing. This, this is the the Empire's way of operating. Yep. And by the way, you know, the to mujahideen, who got the most of that wealth from the CIA through the pakistanis and the 1980s

were Google Dean hekmatyar. And Connie, Jalal aldin haqqani, and these two were, the guys who helped are Afghanistan to shreds and reduce it to such a state of chaos that the Taliban religious leadership rose up with American Support. Later in the 90s to marginalize these beasts and try to pacify the country. They just wanted to build a pipeline across. It's not that they cared about the people. But these were some of the worst. I mean, Mature was known for

skinning people alive. Okay. This was the guy that got the money from the Americans them and massoud. Who it turned out was a double agent working for the KGB, all along. But then in our current Afghan war, which has been going on for 20 years, Jalal aldin haqqani, and his Network and go between hekmatyar and his group, his be islami, which he did give it up in 2016, but for the first 15 years of this war, heck Char and the Elder haqqani is dead now, but his son, sir hygiene not

sure how to pronounce. It has taken over and they still are essentially allied with the Afghan Taliban in their Insurgency against the Kabul government that the u.s. Is created there. So, you know, even to this day, we're dealing with the blowback from, you know, in our own attempted occupation that land fighting the exact same mujahideen Warlords. That we had back to the 1980s.

Unbelievable. So that we had backed the Taliban to marginalize because of how horrible they were 25 years ago, under Bill Clinton. So complaint number one from Bin Laden in his own words, starting in 91, the US had about 5,000 troops stationed. In Saudi Arabia with operation Southern watch. What was the justification for having those bases there? Well, so what happened was, you know, Desert Storm Desert Shield started in 1990 and the actual war was in January, and February of 1991.

And then the aftermath of that war, George h.w., Bush, encouraged the Shiites, and the Kurds to rise up against the minority. Sunni controlled baathist dictatorship, in Baghdad and Bush. Put out a statement on Voice of America, encouraging them to rise up and the Air Force dropped. Flitz that looked like a recce Dinars, look like money to make sure people would pick it up. That said, now's your chance rise up against Saddam Hussein. I'm not sure if they literally

promised support. But that was certainly, the implication America ruled all of the south of the country. I didn't mention this in the book. I wasn't sure if it really fit or not. I guess I'll ask your opinion about this. I almost had a sentence in the book that said, as readers may, remember, from the movie Three Kings.

It's Ice Cube Marky, Mark and George Clooney, are, is a pretty big Hollywood movie that came out in the 1990s and it takes place during this time in the aftermath of Iraq, war one, and it's a gold Heist, right? You may, have you ever seen this. It's great. The guy makes Marky Mark. Drink oil. He goes. What do you Doing here Marky Mark and Marky, Mark's, like stability, man, you know, stability. And he prizes mouth open with a CD and pours oil down his throat.

Here's here's your stability is great. Anyway, so, yeah, I guess it's a good thing. I left that out of the book because it's such an old movie now, people don't remember but if you like, it's a good movie. Wait wait, so the context of that movie is USA, occupies all Southern Iraq, Saddam Hussein on his knees. Signed all of our demands and cried. Uncle at the End of the war, right?

It was, he was in America's hand and then so Bush, encourage these people to rise up but then he changed his mind and he let Saddam Hussein keep his attack helicopters and Slaughter the people and you know, enough tanks as well. By the way that M EK mujahideen e called communist terrorist cult help. Put down that Insurrection for Saddam as well. Interesting side note there, but they killed approximately 100,000 people. Crushing that Insurrection among them.

Shorty supermajority Shiites and the other minority. The Kurdish sunnis in the north of the country. And so then Bush I guess it was Thatcher. Maybe it was John Major by then. I think no still Thatcher and I forget who was run France at the time and they dropped out pretty quick. But the three major allies initially announced this no-fly zone that they would maintain

over Iraq to protect. T', the southern Shiites and the northern Kurds. So the thing of it is this and then later in the beginning of the Clinton are they just announced this whole policy of dual containment that meant containing Iraq and Iran with or without the pretext of Oppression of the Shiites, right? Just you know, whatever we want. We're staying to keep both sides down since we can't bounce them against each other. Well now whatever, but the thing is the question is, why do they

betray them? Why did bush Change his mind and the reason is because the Iranians started, coming across the border, more to the point. Iranian back Shiite. Militias started coming across the border from Iran into Iraq.

And when they did that, the Americans realized Bush senior's Administration realized they were reversing their policy that, you know, he was vice president during Reagan their whole policy have been support Saddam Hussein in his war against the Iranian Shiite revolutionary.

The government there in order to contain that Shiite revolution in part to prevent it from bleeding into Iraq, Saudi Arabia and other places in Saudi. It's a small minority but the Shiites live right on top of where all the oil is. And so, you know, they're really worried about all that too. So Bush senior realized they were reversing that policy. They were now importing the Iranian Revolution into Iraq. And so, you know, they didn't really control Saddam anymore.

But at least you know, they had them completely Pound, right? But if they just invited the Iranians into Iraq, they would be screwed. They'd have to go to war and Tehran to reverse that. So they called it off and then they let Saddam Massacre all these people and then that became the excuse to stay. Which then as I say, got us attacked on September 11th, fast forward a year and a half, Bush jr. Uses September 11th as his excuse to go back to Iraq and he picks up, right?

Where his father left off. And Put those exact same Iraqi Shiites who are backed by Iran. He puts them in power. And as we've discussed before, that was the entire nature of Iraq. War two was, it was America's War to put Iran's best friends in power. And they've been regretting it and trying to make up for that fact with their stupid Pro outright Pro Al-Qaeda policies ever since especially in Syria and in Yemen, and just to be clear about what was happening in the 90s in Iraq.

Because Ben Shapiro has described 90s as the u.s. Having a light footprint in the world. So you mentioned that the US under Clinton was actually bombing Iraq, multiple times a week, and had a blockade, which Bin Laden says caused a million deaths. You clarify the numbers closer to 300,000 either way. That's an incredible number. Why was there bombing and blockading in Iraq before 9/11? Yeah, so that was the policy and as I provide, you know, plenty of quotes in the book of Bush.

And then, Clinton officials saying that from the beginning, essentially, that the economic war, against Iraq will not be lifted until Saddam Hussein is gone. We'll keep him under blockade, will keep him under embargo, you know, I hadn't really thought about this in a while Keith, but you're just for some reason kind of spurred a neuron in me that, that reminded me of my own perception of those events. At the time. I was in ninth grade during the Iraq War One. So I was a pretty badass

political son of a bitch. By the time I was a senior in high school, maybe even really a junior. I was pretty wise to a lot of this stuff. Ronald Reagan's drug dealing, and the corruption in the lies of the war, that how bad it was, that we'd done that to Iraq and that kind of thing. I got a real leg up on that, but I was for the war at the time because I was just 14 and want to see some explosions, you know, I was absolutely a

sociopath until later in life. I just wanted to see some Cool shit, blow up and the President says, it's okay. So I don't want to hear any hippie whining about it. You know what I mean? If he says it's fine, then it is yellow ribbons everywhere. We're all on board for this, right? The I didn't even know.

Honestly. I didn't even know that anyone had any hippies at all, have even marched on the capital out of all in Austin and, and protest against the war TV news, didn't cover it. I didn't even find that out. Until I just heard people talk about it, maybe more than a year later, two years later. It hadn't even occurred to me that there were organized adults. We're trying to stop the war from happening. They never told us that and I remember, I'm sorry.

I'm rambling, but I remember the coverage of the blockade and the Embargo and the sanctions in the whatever in the sort of the the, you know, how like kind of The New Normal. Right? I guess they would say now, right? Like, we're not going back to a status quo. We're never going to be friends with this guy. Again. We call them Hitler way, too many times to bring them back in, from the cold now, so we have to keep I'm kind of on a nice and kind of in this Purgatory kind of situation.

I call it warm War because we're bombing them. It's not exactly just cold war. It's not outright War, but we got them under this terrible blockade. But you know, I think I remember at the time until until much later when when the Scandal was made about Madeleine Albright's comments about the 500,000, dead children being worth it and you know, the oil for food and the scandal of the you Officials,

Dennis Halladay, and I'm sorry. The other guy resigning over this van spotnik sponeck and it kind of became a controversy, a little bit, you know, later in the 90s man. Clinton second term, you know, but for for the rest of Bush, senior and the entire early Bill Clinton, I think the idea they just never filled in the details man. They just kind of said that, like, yeah, we have them under this blockade. They never really said what that meant. Right? Like you could have got the idea.

I'm speaking from my own like, very young and kind of look what I understood to be more or less than narrative as a 10th grader, is pretty much what the American people thought, at the same time to, okay. I was plugged into the common understanding at that time. And it was that like, who cares was the big deal? No, there wasn't a big deal. Nobody said there was a big deal. We have them under block. Ay, there's Something, but

nobody was crying there. If Kathy Kelly voices in the wilderness was screaming, these poor children are dying. We couldn't hear her. No one, she wasn't on TV. I don't know when Kathy Kelly started. I'm sure it was all along some of these women are just heroic on this stuff. But but for the general public, we just didn't know man. We just didn't know. Embargo is just a word. Keith sanctions is just a word. What does that mean? They didn't say?

This means that the people in Kurdistan can't get wait. They're the ones. We're trying to save from Saddam. Mm. I thought but they can't buy wheat to eat. So they're dying. You know, they got when Bush senior died. They're like, yeah, you liberated. Iraq, except all the tweets out of Iraq. Call the mr. Embargo burn in hell. They weren't thankful that he had saved them from Saddam Hussein. What he had done to them was far worse than what Saddam Hussein

had done to them. And the worst that Hussein had done to them, was when America set them up under Reagan and under Bush. Got them in trouble with him in the 80s. They worked a deal to get Iran to back them against Saddam, and then they left them high and dry and less Saddam come and get his revenge against the master of them all. You know, anyway, so we have sanctions. But so, that's the deal, the

American people. I don't want to say they were innocent but in a way like, man, they kind of they did, they never explained. They never said to us, embargo means. I mean, maybe if you're like a regular religious reader of the Washington Post, then you could pick this up, right? But Like if you're Joe air conditioner, repairman, who cares about this stuff and watches the news and listens to talk radio and is interested.

Nobody ever told him. He never had a chance to even know what was going on, you know, and so yeah, they killed hundreds of thousands of people and the UN report said it was a, it was actually one person on the UN team skewed. The numbers really bad by, you know, yeah, every house he checked had a dead child. Well, thanks a lot. He screwed up the thing. And they ended up having to

retract that survey. But then as you said or you know indicated there Richard Garfield from Columbia went back and recalculate it. No, it wasn't 500,000 dead kids. It was 300,000 dead kids and which does translate into maybe another hundred or two or more Dead adults to old people, you know, people die of easily treatable diseases when they can't get medicine. When they're malnourished and unhealthy, in the first Place, this is satanic fucking evil.

Dude. What America does with these blockades and sanctions, but sound so clinical right? Same thing with the drones, Oh see? It's a surgical strike. The Drone is a scalpel, you know, the the an economic war against the civilian population to prevent them from being able to eat and take care of each other and take to provide medicine for the members of their family in To terrorize them in order to force them to make a change in their regime. They don't ever say that they

call it an embargo. Well, what the fuck is an embargo, you know or even if you know what that means. What are the consequences of that? What does that look like down at the local hospital where the medicine cabinet is empty, right, but TV won't show you. So anyway, I'm off on that tangent, but I was one of the guilty I was 14 so I don't give a shit but But I was one of the

guilty during Iraq war one. I was all for that as a freshman in high school and I was, and I remember my understanding of the way that they portrayed it, then was I going to keep him under these sanctions and whatever until Hussein is gone. They never really addressed how long that'll take and they never really addressed what this means for the civilian population of the country. Again, in the book.

I quote, The Washington Post, where the military makes it very, very and the Thracians. Make it very, very clear, how deliberate this all was, but they never really put that on TV, aside from Lesley Stahl when she went in 1996, when she went over there and confronted Madeleine Albright about it. But even then that was just one episode of 60 Minutes.

That didn't mean anything. The only part of that that you can find anywhere is the clip of Madeleine Albright saying we think the price is worth it, but you don't really get to see that episode and at the time, whatever ripple effect it had amounted to a Few op-eds and a few papers and it was gone, you know, by like 98 they entry or 96. They introduced the oil-for-food programme, but the money wasn't going to the people. It wasn't going to food as they said. At the time Saddam.

He gangster eyes has all the money spends it all on his palaces. Well, then do something different. Then if the food isn't going to the people and it's only going to the baath party, ruling Elite will then change the fucking policy to something else. And meanwhile, you got Young father dies in the tower on 9/11 because of this shit and can't raise his kid now because he's dead because Bill Clinton thought won't care. I'll just keep doing whatever George Bush is doing.

Doesn't make a difference to me and it still doesn't you think Bill Clinton has ever thought for one minute. Damn, that shit really is my fault. You know, other than I've heard him say he wishes he'd killed Bin Laden, but you think any more than W? Bush? You think that, he internalizes his responsibility for this shit. Absolutely. Not nothing's, in one moment. It's incredible. It's Putin saying. Anyone who trades with America, we will shoot and until they

violently overthrow. Joe Biden. We can't even get into side. The capital when we want to, I can't imagine Iraq. He's who don't have a An amendment saying you need to, you need to go murder Saddam Hussein. That's that's more or less. What you need to rise up. Okay? Code for shoot him and his top ten generals. That remember sir. We had the chance ask, remember,

they had their chance. We gave them their chance and told them to do it, and then stab them in the back, and let Saddam Hussein machine-gun them all to death. Okay, that was their chance for Madeleine Albright and Bill Clinton to pretend that somehow they could starve. These people into being able to successfully overthrow Saddam in the middle of the 1990s was absurd and they knew it, they knew it. And listen. We're doing the same thing to the syrians, the Iranians and

the amenities right now. It's no different than dropping an atom bomb on them. It's no more. Moral than sending the Marine Corps to machine-gun them all to death. Unbelievable. And then the third main thing that Bin Laden mentions in his letter is Khanna. What happened in Cana well in Kane 1996. And this is part of Israel's anti-iranian policy, where they were insisting, Bill Clinton had to do this duel containment against Iran. Shimon Perez after rabine was killed, Shimon Perez.

He was a ribbing was assassinated by right-wing Israeli settler, because he wanted a Away parts of the West Bank, not a real Palestinian state, but that was too much for this Zionist settler who assassinated him. So then his I guess defense minister Perez took over and became prime minister after that. And one of the first things he did on the new, anti-iran policy was launched operation Grapes of Wrath in southern Lebanon

against Hezbollah and during. Well, first of all, Mohamed Atta, the lead September 11th hijacker and really ringleader of the Hamburg cell of al-Qaeda terrorists, who were the the pilots of three out of four of the planes that hit us on that day. He, as soon as operation Grapes of Wrath broke out. He signed his last will and testament which was essentially equivalent to. He was joining the Army. He was deciding that, that is it. I'm joining up.

I'm going to war over this and I don't mind dying. That was his deal there. Then it was a couple of days later, two days later that the Israeli. I think it was two days later that the Israelis bombed, a United Nations shelter, that was full of nothing. But women, and children 108 women and children or 110, think was 108 women and children. And and, you know, blew them apart was a artillery shell or whatever.

It was, blew the place, apart, and killed all these people, and and Bin Laden. His 1996 declaration of war against the United States goes on and on about Kana. And not just that in interviews to we talked about it numerous times about how cause you can see the pictures there, you know, on the local news and in the Middle East they wouldn't show you this on Dan Rather or Peter Jennings or Tom Brokaw. But in the Middle East they got to see pictures of the heads of

young babies. The arms and legs of young babies severed from their bodies from this explosion. Erosion and Bin Laden said we will never forget. And nor will we ever forgive that? And I'm almost certain. This is the one where he said, how, how is it that you think that your blood is blood but that our blood is just water. That's not right.

It's like, you know what? I'm pretty sure this guy serious some he should be worried about this shit, you know, in fact, you know, John Miller I'll get back to this just a second, but John Miller said the the former ABC news reporter who interviewed Bin Laden and later became an FBI agent over it. He told Peter Bergen who also had interviewed Bin Laden that when Bin Laden said I'm declaring war against the United States of America that to himself.

He scoffed and laughed and said yeah you and what army, you know, it sounded crazy to think that this guy could be a danger hiding an exile out in Afghanistan and Pakistan with a couple of hundred mujahideen. What the hell's he gonna do? Right, but what he did was he inspired this Egyptian? During student studying in Germany and he and his friend ramzi binalshibh. And I forget if there were

others with them now or not. I have to go back, but they went to Afghanistan and they met with Bin Laden's video of them in Afghanistan with Bin Laden and zawahiri and the group there. And that was where they were recruited. And these were guys who because they had Western passports. It was that much easier for them to get into the United States. And this was, you know, the core of the September 11th plot in this country. And, you know, Long ago, I actually look for this and it's gone.

Now, you know, YouTube is man thinks come and go from there little channels and whatever, but there was this cool thing where it was like, this old Jewish guy or I don't know how old he wasn't. Kind of middle-aged Jewish guy from Brooklyn Ferry New Yorker, very stereotypical kind of a character, really funny and gregarious kind of a guy. And he was talking about how he had come. He had run into all these buildings seven truthers who

were trying to convince him. That the Had planted all these bombs in building seven and brought it down and so he had started looking into that and trying to figure out what had really happened. And then the conclusion was he put out this video where he said I figured it out. Okay, it wasn't that Israel put bombs in the towers.

It was that Israel murdered a bunch of innocent children in Palestine and in Lebanon and motivated these Egyptians and Saudis and Lebanese and you many's to hijack this plane or UAE. I didn't mean say Yemen. Sorry, uh, Lee citizens to hijack, these planes and crash them into our buildings. That's what brought down the towers. Not Israeli demolition, charges Israeli policies in the Levant war crimes.

Right? Not being a nice little Jewish boy, minding their own business, murdering women and children hiding and United Nations shelters. That's what brought those towers down. Somebody told Bin Laden that their blood also is blood not water. And that Ought to take themselves seriously, and apparently he agreed with them. And there were two condom massacres where they both the way. Let me say this.

I'm so sorry. I'm so rude and interrupting you all the time here, buddy, but let me say for people who don't know me and don't understand this subject matter, whatever. This is not a justification for any of this.

Okay. This is just being a grown-up and being you know factual and and and you know, respecting the history of what really happened here and what we're really up against, you know, as Ron Paul said if We think we can just go around the world and do all this stuff and not have to face consequences that we do this at our own Peril.

Okay, we have to be understanding about what is really going on. So if we're going to make, you know, correct diagnosis, so that we can get the correct prescription for what is to be done. And that's all it is. No justification for some sickos war against my own civilian. Countrymen. That's not the point. The point is don't pretend that you Don't understand. Okay, the same way you feel, when they knocked down our Towers.

That's the same way. They feel when we bomb their shelter and the Israelis count is us because the money for those Israeli bombs came right out of our paychecks. Yeah, but Bin Laden continuously says, I think the term is American. Zionist Alliance is what I that term he uses in his 96 writings because he sees them as two sides of the same coin. Is far as, okay. So to kind of massacres both un shelter buildings.

Oh, good point. So yes, the second kind of Massacre is in 2006. 20 years later. I'm sorry. 10 years later. I'm so old. I'm out of time here. I'm Doc Brown only without the hair 2006. Israel invades Southern Lebanon. What had happened was he Israelis had massacred?

Family in Gaza on the beach, just Ramona wrote about the Gaza Beach, Party Massacre. And then in response to that Hezbollah kidnapped, some IDF troops near the border in the north there with Lebanon. And then the Israelis launched a war over it. And the Hezbollah. We're like, Whoa, We we were trying to start a warm hand. We just wanted to trade a couple of prisoners or something. You know, it got way out of hand, the Israelis invaded, But

then Hezbollah beat them back. And really humiliated them and drove them back. This is the summer of end of July, beginning of August 2006. And I do not remember the specifics anymore, Keith, whether that was a shelter or not. You may have that better than I do at this point, but I do know that there was a massacre. I'm not sure if it was, I think it was, you know, one artillery shell or one tank round, or whatever.

It was hit civilians and killed them and it was named, then the second Kana Massacre was in 06. Sorry, it's just been too long since I looked into that. I don't remember the details of that one anymore. It's just another example of how one of these can go unnoticed. It's amazing. You read the words of Ron Paul that you mentioned in your book enough already time to end the war on terrorism. You quote Ron Paul in the late 90s warning about blowback.

We have Harry Brown on September 12th. 2001 saying let me give you a quick history lesson or not. Exactly the isolationist that were. Sometimes painted as you have to step back and look, this is a completely insecure regime for spending 730 billion dollars annually on the military. You'd think no one's ever going to attack us ever. We spend so much. But the opposite is true. We spend so much, we provoke enemies. So it actually is time to end

the war on terrorism. It's not like a well the bigger. We are the more we save when you kill one. You create a number of other enemies. Just to Quickly, quote, Robert Pape and Feldman in 2010, cutting the fuse, here are three 9/11 hijackers. So to assist the words of Bin Laden, what is happening in Muslim countries today. Blatant occupation about which there is no doubt. There was no Duty more obligatory after Faith then to repel them. Second one repelling, the Americans occupying.

The land of the to sanctuaries is the most obligatory of obligations. Finally, and I say to America, if it wants its armies and people to be safe than it must with. Draw all of its forces from the Muslim lands and depart from all our countries bit of a different picture than what we get from the Neo cons.

They hate us for our freedom. Yeah, well and lesson it's the same thing for the letters that ramzi Yousef wrote to the New York newspapers and he said at his trial after the for the First World Trade Center bombing in 1993. It's exactly what you know, all indications from all the different September 11th, hijackers, of course, and You know, there's just study after study by the CIA by the Pentagon by, you know, the MI6 and MI5 over in Britain of the FBI.

As long as we're at it, where they all agree, that this is the case, even in the September 11th, hearings, the FBI agent. There's an FBI agent who he was asked about motive. It's funny, they say, what's the motive behind this thing? Anyway, when we ever do to them, you got to think. That and every one of the table is like shit.

I'm not answering that and it goes kind of back and forth this that and then find the FBI since, you know, I think they identify with the situation in Palestine and, and they perceive the United States as being behind that and they sympathize with that and seek to avenge the situation there. As like, he's just a cop, man. This is just Joe Friday facts, man. I'm just saying, you know, he doesn't have an opinion about this shit.

He's just saying that, well, you know, when we investigate It all they talk about is how mad they are about what Israel does in Palestine. And you know, I get this to right, like if somebody's mom is watching this. She's may be lost. And it's fair like what do you mean that these Egyptians attacked the United States because of what Israel did in Lebanon? It's like I'm lost. Where's Lebanon anyway, right? I don't know. But the thing is like, yeah. No, that's the deal. That's what it is.

America gives Israel, three, four billion dollars a year and in military aid and in all the Diplomatic support they could ever need. And there's this narrative that poor little Israel's just defending itself from their neighbors, but that's just not true. They are the regional hegeman. They are the nuclear hegeman of

the region and are the military. The conventional military hegeman of the region by FR. And in fact, right now they could take on Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Iraq and Egypt in one war right now, and beat all of them in a week or two, and there's no question about it. Not even to no question about that the strength that the Israelis have. This is not about the minding their own business. This is about them getting away with bloody murder at the expense of innocent civilian, populations.

Particularly, of course the Palestinians, but yes, you know, back then. Especially from, you know, 1982 through 2000, Lebanon, as well. They occupy Lebanon for right around 20 years and you know, give or take they would move back and forth sometimes but well, yeah, it's a little counterintuitive. You see small Israel and then this whole big Middle East you're like, oh stop complaining about Israel, but you then realize how power actually

works. It's like how is it that a few congressmen 530 of them control, 300 million Americans? Ins. And then you can read the words of Mossad agent. Ellie Cohen saying, you know, it turns out the way we don't, the reason Syria doesn't just blow away. Tiny Israel is because Israel has World public support. So it's not just looking at the size and saying, well, you can't blame that tiny little Nation for up for everything else. That's just not.

Not the way, it is. I'd really like, for example, New Jersey could destroy all of North Africa, right? It made me think. New Jersey, they crank out battleships weekly if they have to think New Jersey doesn't have the ability to destroy, you know, huge parts of the planet. It's all about capital and how its invested man and not the size of the of the nation itself. Well, it's just like Bin Laden says, I think it's in his letter to fahd in 1995 where he talks about Egypt and Yemen.

And Jordan as these Muslim brother nations in the same way. You would talk about Florida, Nebraska, Hawaii. E and New York and Washington. It's like these are places that are so different in culture and region but they have this sort of, you know, Collective identity. So to hit New York is to get someone in Texas. A guy who hates New Yorkers to just say, oh I'll die. I'll sign up. I'll get my legs blown off by an

IED. I'm signing up and I'm glad you brought that up because after the first World Trade Center attack, when six people were killed, you couldn't have got Texans to go to war over. At Texas, didn't care about six, New Yorkers dying. Sorry, but they didn't, you know, I talked to him. I was a cab driver. I met, 50,000 of them in a row later.

They were not interested in that, but you knocked down a couple of towers and kill, especially what we thought might have been 20,000 right away, you know, in the, in the first estimates there, boy. They're lucky, wind is really, they're lucky that that nuclear bombs didn't start getting dropped over there, you know, for at least if it had been the people, Of this state in charge that is what would have happened. You know, right? So we got the motives and up to 9/11.

Let's talk about September 12. 2001, Madeleine Albright spoke with Ana kasparian, Madeleine Albright said, this is a former United Nations US. Secretary to the UN that was her title. It was she was Secretary of State after that. Yeah, first ambassador to the UN Secretary of State, then secretary of state. So Ana kasparian was asking her about foreign policy matter. Albright says, I personally, when we went into Afghanistan

one, could understand that. Because that was after 9/11, and that's where the murderers had been placed. And then she just moves on get into that mindset. We Al Qaeda is based in the Hindu Kush mountains or that area with Bin Laden. So invading Afghanistan and going in there to start at 20 years. War was therefore Justified maybe not everything since then, but at the time we had to go, how do you respond?

Well, look, I make the case in my first book Fool's errand that and this is just a fact that the Taliban were willing to negotiate the Americans, you know, said they're just biding for time and stuff like that. I don't think that that was true. And in fact, Milton Bearden, who was the most experienced CIA officer in Afghanistan, going back to the 1980s who helped run the war in the 1980s there. Said that, that just wasn't true. They absolutely were willing to negotiate with us.

All they wanted, was a little bit of proof and I think you and I have talked about this on the show before Keith, but in in Afghanistan, especially among the pashtun population, there they have What's called the pashtunwali code, which is their tribal honor code, and it's taken as seriously as an honor code in Japan or anywhere that has something, you know, extremely serious like that. We have real good handshakes here in Texas, but it's not quite as Extreme as all of this.

If they have a custom that and I think it's like actually this isn't just a cliche like you're supposed to turn over your own daughter before you turn over a guest seeking refuge in your home, you know, you don't ever do that and it's these are badlands, right? These Customs come from living and very, very harsh places. And this these Customs go back. Thousands of years. You can just don't give up someone who you're protecting. You know, anybody can relate to

that, right? I'm just saying that's their, that's their belief system to the nth degree. Okay, on the other hand though. Mullah Omar, the leader of the Taliban hated, Osama Bin Laden. Sorry guts and wanted rid of them. All. He wanted was to save a little bit of face. Tell you what? Just show me some evidence that he did it, which they had plenty. They knew there was an attack coming. All damn summer long. It's not like they couldn't track these guys from, you know, who they were.

I were to Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Bin Laden and whatever they could put all that out in a week. Colon Powell went on Meet. The Press and said yes, we're working on a dossier right now. We have evidence. We have plenty of evidence. You know, we'll have it ready in no time that never happened. They never turned over any evidence and and the Taliban and said, if you give us some evidence will turn them over to any Muslim country.

Well or any member of the organization of the Muslim conference, it's called well, which was created by the United States and Saudi Arabia and the first place Keith. You know that On. This is the America rules the world here. The the the Muslim states of the war. You could turn them over to any Muslim country. How about Kuwait? How about United Arab Emirates or Jordan or Malaysia?

You think those countries would not just hand the guy over without even an extradition hearing it land on the tarmac in Jordan and then take off for New York, or Virginia for trial for, you know, arraignment. No problem. Then all And Al Qaeda, no problem, but they said no bullshit. No negotiations. They said well, I'll tell you what, give us evidence and we'll turn them over to your friends. The pakistanis, Who by that time Believe Me by September the 12th.

They were firmly in America's pocket or in America's grip. If you prefer Richard Armitage, the deputy secretary of state had called new sheriff and said, you are essentially my slave now, you know, do everything I tell you, or I'm going to reduce your country to the Stone Age. Do you understand what I mean? And that means nuclear war, we will destroy your country with nuclear weapons. If you do not bow down right now and they said sir. Yes, sir.

Whatever you guys say from the very beginning. And so he said well, we'll turn him over to them while the pakistanis ruined that one, which I think is a strong indication that the CIA, the Americans told them to ruin, it told them to reject that offer. Then once the bombs started falling, almost a month, later October the 8th. They They said, okay. We'll turn him over to any third country in the world. I guess. Probably excluding Israel, but any third country in the world?

With no evidence provided whatsoever. You can have him and all of his men, and Bush said, nope, too little too late. That's it. And still pushing change. And this, according to George Bush in his book decision points. He said, we gave that offer to mainly expose their Defiance this. So, this is not like I have a feeling, there was something going on in the background. This is generally known. Give me that page number. I lost that I didn't have that. Yeah, I would Never read that

whole book. I only read the part about he was mad at the CIA. For debunking his lies about Iran's nuclear program and bowing and scraping to his Royal Majesty. King Abdullah over it. My favorite part is when he's very upset with a Joe Wilson for making such a big deal over Bush. Just saying, well, they bought some yellow cake, if from Niger and then Joe Wilson had to go write an article.

It was only sixteen words in my whole speech, like, that's the evidence for the existence of wmds in Iraq, and he's very upset with Joe Wilson and in that book, but but yes, I actually quoted it when you and I first spoke years ago, but yes, I will get that for you. Yeah. Yeah, give me that page number. That sounds like a good one. But yeah, and then that was the thing. I now look. So I also say in the book, Keith I go look man. Like let me let me be fair to my

audience here. You might think that September 11th was so big that I don't know if that is a crime. Maybe that is an act of War. And maybe these guys don't deserve trials. Maybe we should just shoot them to death and maybe if anyone is near them, that's to God. Damned bad. We're going to drop bombs on you. Okay, fine, but still, you can just do that Takeda. I mean, for sake of argument fine. I'm a fair trial guy. But anyway, for the sake of argument, fine, but why you got

a carpet bomb the Taliban? Why you gotta lie. I'm with the Northern Alliance and overthrow the Taliban and just said of in focusing on Al-Qaeda the guilty, the Arabs who did it. And, you know, it's in the book jawbreaker by Gary berntson. The CIA has the second CIA officer in charge of the war over there that at one point

after the worst started. He's talking with a Taliban Commander over walkie-talkie and he says, you know, I'll accept your unconditional surrender now and or maybe the guy calls him think the Taliban. Contacts him since I want to surrender, please don't you know, decimate me in all of my guys. We want to surrender to you and he says, do you have any Arabs with you? And the Taliban Commander says, yes, I have 20 Arabs with me and

Gary berntsen says kill them. And then he can hear in the background rat-tat-tat-tat tat-tat-tat has a Taliban lined up all their Arabs and murdered them. Anything else. CIA man says Nope. Good job and then accepts their surrender. Okay. That's how important the Taliban were. I mean, the al-Qaeda guys were to the Taliban. Not at all. Right. And it's in bullshit war is over

here on the Shelf here. The Bob Woodward book Bush at War. From it's the first in this series of the the Woodward books about w-- Bush and huge portions of that book are based simply on the transcripts from the National Security Council. Principals committee meetings Bush at the head of the table. Cheney's there with him Rumsfeld wolfowitz George Tenet the whole group Condoleezza.