I'm not scared of The Mouse and the Stalin's and the Hitler's. I'm scared of the thousands or millions of people that hallucinate them to be Authority. And so do their bidding and pay for their Empires and carry out their orders. I don't care if there's one loony with the stupid mustache. He's not a threat. If the people do not believe in Authority. Welcome to Keith's and I don't try it on anyone.
Today. We have Shepherd the voluntarist joining us Shepherd. Where is the best place to find? Your archive of work, you know, YouTube is a place that until I'm dethroned or whatever. It's called until I'm canceled. And then, you know, I'd actually say, go to Odyssey. I'm putting everything on Odyssey.com, OD y, SE e.com. And if you look up, Shepherd, thinks or Shepherd, the voluntary assist, you'll find me there. Shepherd. What type of police work were
you involved in? Well, I started out. Out. When I was a 16 17 year old kid. I worked as a busboy at a restaurant. And I got to know the local cops. They would come in and I got to hear all the cool stories about what the job entailed, you know, you get to drive really fast and and you get to get in fights and you never lose the fight because there's enough of you the rest of your gang little come to your
backup. So you can kind of be a cowardly, chubby little kid and still be a tough guy because you got all the people coming to back you up and so As a cowardly, little chubby kid. I thought, hey, this is cool. I could, I could do this. I'm finally gonna be one of the
cool kids. And so I developed this interest in law enforcement and I learned that the best training for law enforcement is in Southern California, is in the state of California. I ended up in Southern California. I went through the Orange County Sheriff's Academy, which is a six-month Academy, and some states are only a 10 or 12 week Academy. So this was a lot more training. And then I spent two years in the Orange County Jail system, and I was just in a one of the
many jails within their system. I think our jail had sixteen hundred inmates in it. And then I went to another southern California, Beach town and lateral there and was a police officer there for six months on the street. And then the chief said something to me, that he wouldn't take back. So I left there what he said was you're fired. He says You're too much of a Midwestern ieave kid. You don't understand the way things are supposed to be, so you're fired.
So I left there and went to the Rocky Mountain area, which is where I grew up and saying little town where I worked in that restaurant and became a police officer at the local because a 25 sworn officer department. So that was kind of the start. And then I stayed at that department for almost eight years. I think seven and a half years. I'm like that. So I did just under 10 years in law enforcement and is far as the people that you worked with. Why would someone who's your
boss? Say, you are naive? I'm trying to think of what would, what would instigate something like that? What was he saying? You are naive about. Well, I was fortunate enough to have grown up in the back Hills of Tennessee in a minute night community. So I really wasn't Street.
I, you know, I went to a one-room Christian schools and rode a horse to school and like I wasn't a hip kid, I wasn't out cooking the methamphetamines or the zimas or the marijuana's or whatever that stuff is like I was a really innocent naive kid and my two years of the jail. Give me a little bit of Street smarts, but I was still nothing, like the typical City kid. What they would know, and there are things. I want example was, I was taught in training.
Like why didn't you pull that car over my field training officer would say and I'd say well they didn't do anything wrong and they said well, yeah, but did you see who is in the car? And I'd say well yeah, there were four Mexican guys. And they'd say yeah, you didn't pull him over and so I go. Okay. Well I'm learning and then I would see for Mexican guys in a car and I pull him over and the field training officer would say why in the world. Are you pulling them over?
And I'd say well for Mexican guys, I thought that's what we were supposed to do and I said well, not them. These are just hard working. Legal Border, Brothers, they're called, they're just here trying to wash dishes and make a living for their family, don't harass them. They're good people. They're not out selling drugs and being criminals and shooting people. So the little nuances like that of.
So if they're shaved heads and they come in on Artesia from South Central Los Angeles and they're in a low writing Impala. Okay, that's who you pull over. If they're all shaved heads and bunch of tattoos, but if they're just No longer here at working people, then you don't. So there were and that's just one example of the the nuances that I didn't catch on, and, and the chief was right. I didn't turn out to be a great cop. Yeah. Now when you pull someone over, what are you looking for?
If you pull over someone who hasn't quote done anything wrong kid, you'll figure it out. By the time you get up to their window. Yeah. That's what you're at. Back in the 90s. That's what you were taught by your field training officer when I would say, well, what's my reason for pulling them over? You'll figure it out by the time you get up to their window.
So it could be something like they're the tread on their tires, wasn't deep enough, like a bald tires or their license plate, light was out, or it looked like it was out from the angle that that we were, or there's something impairing their Vision. Maybe they have some fuzzy dice hanging from their rearview mirror or something like that. Yeah. Yeah, there you think it's up by the time you get up there? And what is the goal to see if they have drugs on them and to meet a quota?
I'm just trying to think because I'm sorry to interrupt you after, I don't know. Well, now let's see, but just to show you what I'm thinking of it would be kind of scary to pull someone over and walk up to a stranger's window where, you know, you can't fully see their hands. It looks like there is a potential risk. So I'm saying why do they go around rolling?
These dice? And my first is well, they have a quota to meet and it's something they like doing to make sure that you know, the they can justify their next. Their next amount of money from the feds. What is the incentive to pull someone over? Even if they aren't doing anything quote wrong? You know, it and this isn't going to now. I don't believe what I believe then, but I kind of still do.
I think that most cops naively think that they are going out and truly, they are the night, the blue Knight on the horse. That's going out to protect their Village from the bad guys. And so, if you see a Chevy Impala with, for Hispanic males with, shaved heads and they're sitting in such, Position their slump down their seats. When you glance at them.
They look away. If you pull that car over, I've got tattoos on their necks and such one of them will probably have a warrant for their arrest out of Los Angeles, either the city, or the county and maybe the warrant is for homicide. Maybe it's for drug dealing. You don't really care if it's a serious felony. That's basically who you're looking for. If you walk up to them and you talk to them and they're friendly and they're not Shifty and They're obviously not bad, guys.
Then you just spit have a good day. And you know, why are you here in our expensive much lighter colored, skinned area, which is what are you doing in town? And we're just cruising and hey, why don't you keep doing that and then let him go. So there isn't really that much fear cops are taught to have fear. But you know, you have your hand on your gun and when you call out that you're doing a trough traffic stop. If you say the kind of vehicle and you say that it's for deep.
Then they know the other four guys, in an Impala. Okay. It's probably time for other officers to not rush over but you have two or three or four cars Meandering your way. When you make that stop until you walked up and you see that they're they're cool and you get on the radio and say everything's fine and and then everybody will stop rolling your way. So not that much fear. And you're really trying to get the bad guys off the street. In the cops mind with a cop's
training. The statism, you really think both are bad guys, and we've got to get the bad guys off so short. Yeah. Sure. Yeah.
I definitely see it as a difference in the approach that we as volunteers should have whether we're up against evil people who just need to be resisted or for up against people who have been tricked into thinking that their actions are somehow Justified. Once they get hired by this group of people called the government group as That is, if that alters morality, do you have any advice for talking to
police officers? Just one example that I was in, I was at the lake and we were you know, wakeboarding and the cop pulls this guy over and he's just bugging him. I can just I just saw him lurking looking for something to do. So, here's the cop and the guy and I'm sort of just riding around and the cop stops what he's doing. Stop this. You know, potential criminal, who might be dangerous.
He stops and tells me to hey, Go away, You're interfering with my investigation and I said, f you and then drove off and then he meets me like 30 minutes later on the dock and says, hey, you said f you to me and you were interfering with my investigation, what's your name? And there was my dad former military and my brother former military. I mean that they just said Silence. I didn't know what to expect from them. But he goes up and he goes, what were you doing?
I go. I didn't say FU to you. I probably did. I don't remember it. But he's saying that that's what happened. And then, so was The Other Woman, he was with. And I and then here I am arguing about whether or not I told him to F himself and I said, what even if I did. So what and he goes? No, I'm writing you a ticket. What's your name? And there's my dad and my brother stayed us to one and stayed us to and I go If I give him a fake name because no one has their wallet or license on
them. I go these mother effers might tell on me. If I and I just gave him my name. Reluctantly. And then he hands me. The ticket and says waking in a no-wake zone, so he gave me a fraudulent ticket. So I go fight it. I make this long drive down to the lake and then he doesn't show up and I go. Well the cop doesn't show up the tickets dropped. He goes, nowhere rescheduling. Get you think that's the rule? Because we say, that's the rule. That's not the role.
Good. You Up, make a third trip. And then on the third trip, he didn't show again and they just cancelled it. The second time you didn't show up because he had known, he fabricated it. I'm sorry. I needed to get that off my chest. The point is when, when I'm being written a fraudulent ticket, and it's either my pride or make my life easier. How do I communicate to the officers? There's two of them?
Okay. So first of all, I think having the understanding that you had and your great people relatives didn't have have was first of all in how you look at this, this human being in front of you and for me, a big part of it is the pride of not being a cuckold, you know, you are not the schmuck in the situation, you know, that that is an armed
bad guy. It's an armed Thug, an armed gang member in armed Mafia person and I would behave with them just as I would, if several armed gang members of a different gang walked up to me and were giving me crap. If I think I can kick their butt and get away with it. I'll probably do that. If I think I can't kick their butt and get away with it. Then I won't. And I will say just as people who have been subjected to Masters ruling over them for many years.
You kind of bow your head and you say yet that show is funny Masa you do whatever you've got to say and of course, we don't have it as bad as a motorist in the United States as a white Motors to the United States in. 321. We don't have it as bad as the slave on the plantation. But the slave that saying, yes, Masson smiling and just trying to be likable. That's a strategy.
That's a communication strategy. And that's probably the most effective strategy if you want to walk away without getting a ticket. I think kind of a cool thing to do is actually befriend the cop a bit and is kind of a roundabout thing, but I got this idea from how what's the book that Bad Quaker wrote about sabotage and has the you know, the one I'm talking about. Yep. Well Ben was on my show promoting it so I feel better. Yeah, I think it's called field sedition manual.
Yes. Yes, and one of the things that's been a while he was so correct about was the demoralization. So there are several things that you want to accomplish and I think in any communication, if you're going into a business negotiation, you say, what is it the way that I want to accomplish? And then you prepare for that. Well, in this case, what do you
want to accomplish? Well, one thing you want to accomplish is for the police officer to decide, you know, I'm going to do, I shouldn't do this job anymore. This is just a miserable job. I'm going to go do something that's useful and honest and good, maybe on the same socio-economic skill IQ level, but but being a janitor or a, I don't know, parking garage attendant or something like that. That you, you have the same amount of thinking power, you get paid roughly the same.
Security guard, something like that, but you want to encourage that person to do that. Well, you can't really say, hey, go get a job doing blah, blah blah, but you can make it a little less comfortable to do the current job. Well, what does every government employee always? Complain about? What does everybody hate me? They're screwing us over the city's. Screwing us over or the county. Screwing us over.
We're not getting paid enough. I'm only making eighty two grand a year and there they made me work two hours of overtime last week and While the the plumbers making 40 Grand a year and working 80 hours a week and just, you know, sucking it up and making it happen. But that's what the the government employee is thinking, they're underpaid and they're overworked, and they're understaffed, and they should be treated like a hero, and we're not treating him like a hero.
So that big long diatribe. What you might say would be. Hey, and thanks for being out here, doing what you're doing. I know they are not paying you guys enough and you guys don't get enough respect and you know, you're probably, you know, barely making 70 grand a year. He's really making 50 Grand a year. And now he has some punk kid who's thinking, he's only making 70 grand. You want to talk about hurt in a ego that hurts an ego. This is more likely for him in three weeks to go.
You know, that's that's this job just sucks. I want to go out and be a productive farmer, or truck driver or doctor or whatever, but I want to go out and do something productive. So you've helped that happen. He hasn't hassled. You. You haven't said a might being detained. Am I being Detained us? That's just an annoying joke to Cops. They yeah, I mean you might get them upset. But oh, okay. Now they hate Libertarians more. Thanks, man, that helps.
So if there isn't a good reason that I think just kind of getting along realizing they are a big gang at the end of their radio. They have a bunch more cops. And then at the end of those cops radio, they have a National Guard. And at the end of that radio, they have the Marine Corps and all the special forces and you're not Kick, everybody's butt and so since you can't kick their butt then you kowtow and you don't get beaten up unless
that's not your ultimate goal. So I was saying that, if the ultimate goal is to not get in trouble, not have get a ticket or arrested or beat up or whatever and to get them, not to be a cop. So then my strategy is good. If your strategy is to prove a point because by golly you're you have the right. Oh, that's a different goal if you don't mind going to Jail, or getting beat up or shot or
whatever. Then there's certainly some very clever things one could say, I've been so surprised to come across the phenomenon of false confessions. I never would have thought that someone would falsely confess to a crime. However, it's a pretty big thing and a lot of lawyers are on record saying, never talk to the police without a lawyer. There's a whole YouTube channel. Jim can't swim and it's all about these, you know,
interrogations and everything. And and and the the running joke is instead of hours of Forage, all you need to say is never talked to the cops without a lawyer and then you could have saved your time watching the whole Channel but it's very interesting. I love that channel. But is there ever a time where let's say you're totally innocent where it's worth explaining to the police
officer. Even when he's pulling you over or if you're back at the station, whether or not you are innocent in what, whatever you're being accused of or indirectly accused of, it's a gamble, you know, if If you are suspected of something serious, then you definitely want to say it. And you don't say, I'm going to plead the fifth. No, you smile, and you say or let's say you were in a shooting.
Somebody somebody attacks you with a knife and you pull your gun out and you defend yourself and you shoot them and then the cops get there. You're not going to be saying I have a right? Not to say anything. No, you're going to say, hey officer. I really want to cooperate right now. I'm scared and I did, I definitely want to cooperate. I of course. I want to have an attorney with me. Talk to you. But yeah, I definitely want to cooperate.
Well, now you've invoked your Fifth Amendment right, as long as they decide to keep those going. Like it's just magic words. Magic spells on a piece of paper, the Fifth Amendment and all the others but as long as they're they think that they have to play by them, then that's the way to do it, but not in an antagonistic way. Now, on the other hand, if if a cop walks up to you as you're walking along the beach down at the lake and says, hey were you throwing some bottles and breaking them?
Then I think you kind of look at the the legitimacy of the the job that they're doing. Do we as voluntary as think that Society needs a bunch of big guys with sticks to go around and stop people from getting dead plants and putting them in zigzags and rolling them up and smoking them. No, we don't think that Society needs that position filled. However, I think we, as voluntary us would agree that it's not good for drunk jerks to break glass bottles on Sandy.
Just of lakes where kids play. So in that kind of case, especially if I hadn't been breaking bottles though, that I would be absolutely friendly. And now, man. I haven't if you've been having those issues here and, and those so yeah, the people are doing that constantly, but, hey, I'm going to keep my eyes open. That's BS. Man. I bring my family out here and they're just another human being trying to do a good thing that you agree as good at that point. So, I think it's really
situation dependent. I was Attacked, I'm not physically attacked kind of I was threatened by an armed man and he stole some money from me about a year ago, a police officer, a highway patrolman and when he pulled me over, he came up and did his whole 8-step tactical Verbal Judo thing just as he had been trained. And I was completely friendly with him and I didn't pull the card of, you know, as a former cop it would have been so easy to say.
Hey man, you got a tough job. I remember the days I had to do this and go. Oh really? I'm so yeah. I used to be a cop and blah blah blah. Oh really? Okay. Well, hey man, you gotta slow down. But I didn't want to play that card this time. And so I just said, hey, I'm sorry and you know, I just go and I think 80 and a 70 or
something like that. I thought you know, I'm within 10 and most cops will say five over gets you a warning 10 over, gets you a ticket unless you have a good attitude and then there's some leeway. I figured I've got a good attitude. It's completely dry safe road.
He's going to let me off and he came back, gave me a ticket in that case, I had Nothing else left to lose, so I didn't say anything to him, but I just took the ticket and he probably didn't know what it was because he's from small town, but gave him that little tooth suck thing that every, every inmate in the world knows that every Jailer knows. That's just a way of saying, I hate you and disrespect you man, but without actually saying, oh no, I just had some stuck in my
teeth as the excuse. So I did that. He probably didn't catch on to it, but I didn't smile at him. I didn't give me any more. Love. Whereas before. Is there a function? If there's the Keith Knight Road system.
Would you want people driving 200 miles an hour, along your roadway drunk know, you would probably have managers out there that managed your private roadway and said, hey guys, slow down and you're completely nice to people about it or you would have them be. So as long as he was fulfilling this function, that might exist in a free market Society. I treated him with respect when he extorted or started the process of extorting. However much it was from me.
Then I no longer treated him with smiles and respect but I also didn't start cussing him out or anything. He's just a poor status. That hasn't yet been awakened and maybe someday, I'll see him at a party and be able to awaken him or just give him another little tidbit of hey, yeah, you know, I used to take money from people then I realized hey, that's that's wrong. I shouldn't do that. Wait a year and say it again. I think that's a better method.
Yeah. Well if there was a Keith Knight World System, I would expect people to be respectful to someone, you know, just trying to keep the road safe and make sure no one's driving recklessly or too fast, unless those same people are also kidnapping other people from victimless crimes and enforcing the edicts of lying thieving politicians. Well, then I just would stop caring it whether or not you
were rude to them or not. So so it's important that if we value the things like Helping murderers, thieves rapists, and all these other terrible kidnappers human traffickers. It's so important. We separate that from the position of having extra rights than other people, and being to initiate violence in unique ways. That would be wrong for, for anyone else to do a lot of the Divide when it comes to the left criticism, the left-wing
criticism of police. And the libertarian criticism the leftist might say something like the Um is racial and then under that there's a class problem and there's also a sexist problem. We're mostly male cops will mistreat women and look as look at as a way of, you know, sort of controlling them in ways, the other weren't that they otherwise wouldn't. Where's the libertarian? Says? No, the blatant problem is they think they have the right to rule you because they are cops.
The way we know this is they explicitly say it. Do what? I tell you. I'm an officer. I have a badge. The Really say those things. All those other things are sort of, maybe secondary tertiary in the background. What do you think the problem is? Is it race class gender or the right to rule? I think that the, the law enforcement system, the justice system will call it by the. The what's that? An oxymoron? We'll call it by the oxymoron that it is the Injustice system. In truth is set up.
I think primarily as a class and a welfare system. So when you think about the the person that is in jail or the person that's watching them in jail. The person that is managing the parking garage right by the part Courthouse, the judge the clerk, the attorneys, the prosecuting attorney defense attorney. There's a whole industry built around some people breaking laws.
And then when they do other people putting them in cages and going through this whole fancy thing in the marble halls of the courtroom of all your honor, I believe doing the whole dancer. Or costume show or whatever you want to call Court there. I think that the class and the the welfare is the first because I as a police officer was on welfare. It was a way for the government to support me and pay for my housing and my food and keep me off the street.
All of the people in jail, the inmates they were also having their housing and food paid by the government to keep them off the streets. Same. With the judges of the attorneys and everybody. So there's this whole system. The criminal class is a lower class system and as I would sit by or not sit as I would stand by the chow hall and 1,500 inmates. The other hundred were locked up more but the 1,500 inmates would file passed me over the course of an hour and a half or two.
I would look at the facial structure in and the way that people walked their gate there. How many teeth did they have? What was just their General appearance? And you could have taken me after my almost two years in the jail and drop me in any other city in the south east Northeast, probably another country and I could have walked down the street and looked and said, inmate out of custody.
That's what we would call. The people that are in the revolving door, you know, the cousin comes to visit and visitation day and bestest an inmate out of custody, because within a few weeks or months, the inmate that he's visiting will be out and he'll be in. So it's just this Irving door. And so, I think class is the biggest thing class and Welfare. And then the racial issue part, my story earlier about the four Mexicans. Was that a racial thing? No, that was a social social thing.
That was I was told, don't pull over people just because they're Mexicans that those were the Border Brothers, the dishwashing people. No, don't pull them over just because the color of their skin or their their, or their national origin. It pull them over because they look a lot, like, the people that you have seen over the whole time in jail, many, many, many, many, many, many thousands of people that are the bad guys circling through.
If they look like the bad guy, you pull them over. Well, a lot of bad. Guys, are Mexicans in Southern California and a lot of bad. Guys are black in Southern, California. And is there something that makes those people be the highest. There's ridiculous numbers of the Population in jail. That is a minority. It's just ridiculous. It's upsetting. And I do think that somehow in there. There are some racism. Now. I did not see overt racism in to
a large degree. And when I say to a large degree, I've hung around a lot of people that have told a black joke or something. And I don't really care what people say with their words, as long as they treat people. Okay? And in Action, so, to actually see a problem there. I did not see racism to a measurable degree in Southern California and my two and a half years there and certainly not in the small town that I was in for the seven and a half years after that.
No, it would all had to do not with the color of the skin or the country of origin but with a social status, so I guess that comes back a lot to to class. Sure, and the the reasoning that is just to get at the heart of the issue. Because if you look, if you spend a lot of time, you know, talking about the police problem as BLM and antifa and progressives do and they come away with it being a racial issue, which is a far less problem than the right to rule
issue. It's the equivalent of saying men are 50% of the population, yet. 90% of the inmates. This is a sexism problem. We need a male lives matter movement. There's far, there's not enough Jews, and Asians in the jail. This is an Asian supremacist Society. We need to have a conversation about this. That's when I know I'm talking to an idiot. When, instead of having the conversation they say we need to have a separate one. So yeah, that's the only reason I asked to get to the heart of
that. So this is far too depressing to hear about the, the cop job. I got to switch this up. What is what is voluntourism? Well, I I and I actually have a distinction between volunteerism and voluntary ISM. And so I am a voluntary assist so I'm not so much about volunteering to do labor for others, which is more of the volunteer. So as a voluntary my thought is that everything should be voluntary in life.
Nothing should be coerced. We shouldn't Force others or intimidate others into doing something which is completely the opposite of Of police work as it currently exists. So that's kind of if that was your question is, how do I kind of describe voluntary ISM? And I don't take it beyond that.
Some people will say, well, it's also being a vegan or it's also being an atheist or it's also being a Christian or it's also believing in this social theory or that social theory know all it is to as far as I can tell and as Carl Wagner says, I and I asked him this. Not long before he died. I said, what is the definition of voluntarism? What is the correct? Definition and his response was essentially why can tell you what? I think it is but I don't have any right to it.
It's whatever you want it to say. I mean I claim no right to say that my definition is correct. But this is what I think it is. And so I think it is everything voluntary and part of that and this is where I would kind of separate the voluntary. A stand make the voluntary assist a subset of an A list in that an anarcho-capitalist might still participate in the political system in India elections, and doing petitions. And all of that would still legitimize governments existence.
Whereas the voluntariness would just completely stay away because the harm done by voting. Yes to keep guns legal. For example. Yes, that's one more vote that doesn't matter. But by placing that vote Into The Ballot Box, You have said, yes master. I agree with the outcome of this. I agree to engage in your system to be involved in it. And however, it, you know, power over the chips fall they fall.
But here's my vote. I think that much better moral position is to stand back and say, no, I'd say you can beat me up. You can shoot me. You're in power, you have that strength and power over me, but I'm not going to kowtow to you and pretend that it's okay for you to have that. So now I'm not going to vote or sign petitions. For this or that you don't exist in in my mind Beyond when you're beating me and that really hurts. But other than that, you don't
exist. I'm glad I'm glad you made the distinction between volunteering and voluntourism. The reason that's important is because there was an episode of The Young Turks where I mean, this is a YouTube channel with billions literally billions of views and they finally address us and Go. These idiots. They're like communist. Basically, they just believe everyone's going to volunteer for everything and no one needs a profit incentive and everything's going to be
perfect. These people are idiots and Chang Kyu girls. Like yeah, these people are terrible. So it actually means to some people and then the mental virus spreads that we literally mean people volunteering. So it's more about things consensual interactions between adults in the Mike relm, the religious realm, the everything realm. What do you see? As the difference between me?
Making sure that if I want someone to come to my house for dinner, I do so voluntarily versus me, not letting a murderer voluntarily, go to jail. I would coerce the murderer and I'd have a right there, but I wouldn't have a right in the sense of forcing someone to come to my house. If I just wanted them to spend time with me. What would you say is the
principled difference? You know, just recently, I've heard this Theory, I'm embarrassed to say that it's just recent but that if you violate the if you violate this General accepted idea between people that we're not going to initiate violence against each other. You become a state of nature being and as such now, I can come a day later or six months later and you are no longer a person who has agreed to these these reciprocal rights that
were the way we're going. Treat each other and I'm a now attack you and take you into a cage. I am not sure though. This is the argument that I've heard recently from very smart people and I'm thinking about it and letting it bounce around in my head. It sounds too much to me still like a type of a social contract, which I don't believe exists.
I like it much better than Russo's but I still don't know that social contracts can exist and I have a feeling that the people who are arguing this, To me aren't saying that I probably am not just understanding yet, but that's kind of the justification. To me, is, if you haven't, if you haven't started the fight, then I can't come and start one with you. But if you start the fight with me, now, I can finish it with you or at least try.
I can continue the fight with you morally and so I see it as being. Okay. Now, my other third favorite, I think my favorite way of looking at this and I could be wrong. Is Can roses conflict, equilibrium Theory or concept and that is that we will just as a community. You don't know what, I'll put up with and I don't know what you'll put up with, but I have a feeling that if I come over and I kill someone in your front yard, you're not going to put up with it.
You'll probably come out. You'll call a few neighbors and say, I'm going to go in the yard and kill Shepherd. Anybody want to come join? Me and your Naples go. Wow, Keith is a really cool, dude, and he's level-headed. And if he's going to go out in the yard and kill somebody probably has a good reason. And they're going to come along with you and they'll be okay with that. And I'll say why do you just kill shepper?
Do it? He just came in and killed several of my family members and I'll be okay. Keith. He did a good job. Whereas if I do something like throw a cigarette butt on your front lawn and you come out and you shoot me, your neighbors is, hey Keith, but you had a good reason. Why do you just kill Shepherd? He's really threw a cigarette butt on my front yard and they said wait a minute, that ain't
cool. And then they are not going to want to live around somebody who kills pedestrians walking by with just throw cigarette butts down and An equilibrium will be met, they will then attack you and then you will learn. Oh, I don't get to kill people who throw cigarette butts in my lawn. And so this whole equilibrium idea. It seems to me to be much more pragmatic. It's not a law or a rule. It just seems to be how things probably work absent a
government. I would think that that's how they would work, but I can't say they would that's a complex problem. That be like me pretending. I could be a politician and say, hey if everybody works, if a sniper, everybody will feel great for the rest of their lives. I can't predict that stuff. I don't know, but it's my idea. Exactly. And that's the type of humility. You have to have going into any sort of moral or competitive system.
So the either you agree with the idea that Shepherd just laid out, or you think it's the Then you've ever heard in that case. Make sure you don't Advocate a system of statism, where Shepherd can force you to fund his bad ideas. And there's no way of opting out, so there's just no justification for the existence of a state. Amen. One. One thing that when I was first a voluntarist, I'm sorry. Let me go back to how you became a voluntarist.
What were the main things that convinced you to embrace the philosophy of volunteerism? Oh, well, there were I think I have three things. One was the joke. It was actually a status buddy, that got me into libertarianism into the Ron Paul movement. This was in 2007. He told me the joke about, you know, what's the difference between a Libertarian in a voluntary assist? And the correct answer is about six months unless you're really slow like me and then it's two years.
And so I heard that Matt really made me think because I'm obviously, if I was a cop, I have some self-esteem issues. And so I like to think that I'm really smart. And such. So I'm thinking we'll wait a minute if I'm smart. I should be getting somewhere in six months. And so that was hoof little impetus thing. And then another was listening to Tom woods and Doug Casey in their debate is limited government and oxymoron. That was kind of my
introduction. And then at the same time I became interested in logic and I was looking up logic and I came across a guy that at that point was a Voluntarist philosopher and he has since changed his position, but he had some bit of work. I when I looked up logical fallacies, he had a video and I watched it and I really liked it. And then I ended up watching many hundreds, more of his podcasts on freedomain radio.
I watched hundreds more are not watched listen to hundreds more of his podcasts and that was kind of the foundation. And then Then got into more in deeper parts of it. But yeah, those are those three things were my beginning. Now, what would you say? I promise there's going to be a there's a logic to this question. What is the hardest part of the job of being a police officer? Dealing with supervisors, dealing with every situation. Yeah, you're not. You think you're tough.
You think you're a great fighter? You think, you know, I've all this training and in, not a martial arts, but an arrest and control and in shooting and like, I can handle myself on the street, especially since all my partners are on the way. So you're not scared of bad. Guys. They don't bug you at all. They, they do what they got to do. You do what you got to do? And the only problem comes when you have to deal with admin, so that's by far, the biggest stress. Interesting.
Are you familiar with what is generally? Now, you know, Loosely referred to as a Waco logic where it's the idea of the officers. They will commit total atrocities that they know are wrong, but they're only doing it because of a greater good. In other words, you know, with it's based off the show time show Waco Series, where the guy's like, why are you spending all this time and all this money to get these people, you've been out.
For 30, 40, 50 days. Now, these people didn't do anything besides defend themselves. The first day, you came in pointing guns at innocent people, what's going on with this and there and the cops reasoning again. This is a show, not documentary, but the cops reasoning was well, you see these people resisted us and if we don't bring them to justice, get the best of them. Kill them have a big show of force to let everyone know to
not get any ideas. Then what were basically doing is him the green light to any, you know, any anyone who sort of gets curious with bomb-making, anyone who thinks that they can start doing bad things. So really, no matter what we do. We are just here to bring Law and Order. So, when you're talking to someone like that, how do you communicate, the principles of volunteerism to someone who has that mindset? I don't try.
I applaud Howard with a thick red line for His program and I think he has the best chance of anything. I've heard of in the last year's. But you don't, when I was a cop, I didn't think of myself as a philosopher. It just wasn't even like, you realize Keith how geeky? We are right now. We are we are states away talking over the Internet about philosophy and morality and Big Ideas. Like what kind of nerds are we? Well, when I was a cop, I wasn't
a nerd. I was a cool, dude, you could have Seen me on the football field. I was a real red-blooded American, do what's right kind of guy. So I would have never I would have laughed at the future me and you having this conversation. I wouldn't have even entered the conversation. It was completely whacko to even speaking of Waco to even think of that, that kind of stuff. So that's one point. Another point would be somebody's paying me what? I'm getting paid plus.
Giving me all this Authority when I go to a fundraiser. The local family's house that burned down at the beginning of the fundraiser. When the persons up giving the little talk. They say, we'll all the former military and law enforcement. Please stand up and then you stand up and the community claps for you. So if you're a words of affirmation kind of language guy, like I am with a ego, like that's a really big paycheck
right there. And then you're getting your regular paychecks and you're getting your health insurance completely paid for medical dental. Like it's a cool deal. While you're getting your 401k, you're getting your your retirement and it is it was
really in my mind. It was a huge deal to, I mean, I thought that I was just in a good position and your ultimate goal is not to follow one of the tens of thousands of pages of study you had in the academy whether or not it was in the US, government's Constitution or not your job. That's not your ultimate job, your ultimate job.
To keep your job. Keep this sweet thing going because you only have 18 more years or seven more years until you can retire and get away from these darn lieutenants and captains and Chiefs that are making your life. Such hell, that's your your ultimate goal. So you're getting paid by somebody to do something. You think it's right because you're not willing to look into philosophy and social science and realize it's wrong.
So there's nothing. I don't think there's anything you could have said to To me when I was a police officer that would have would have changed my mind. I just, I wouldn't have been interested in the conversation as soon as you started the conversation, even if it was nice and kind and gentle which is the only way to do it. I think if you're going to win, I don't think that's gonna do the trick now. Sure, they'll placate you.
I just want to toss this out. The cop will placate you and if you come up to You say, just so, you know, I'm a sovereign man or just so, you know, no human being has the right to initiate violence against someone else. So, I gotta, hey, man, you got a good point, man. Hey, you have a good one now face, and then they'll make their escape just like any annoying person. They talk to you that you talk to you like, hey, man, good talking to, you gotta go and
then walk away. That's what I would have done. So sorry to interrupt. Yeah. No. No, please. Um, I'm just thinking of, yeah, I get that. A lot of people in that position are the least Fertile ground to listen to logic because not only is there the intellectual cognitive dissidence. There's the this means I've been partaking personally and something totally immoral and it means my income is a moral and I'd have to get a different job.
So it's almost impossible to get them logically on board. Is there anything you can do to increase the amount of insecurity that they have with inflicting the worst parts of their position because if they're just doing murderers, Some kidnappers. Well, then we're almost there to the voluntary Society where they just need voluntary funding and then they're just like me and you who have a focus on security
and and stopping aggressors. Is there anything you could sort of plant the seed, in, to the mindset of the officer that would increase the amount of insecurity, they have with regards to their justification for initiating violence. Yes, I don't, it's not measurable. And as I said, now as a business person, everything has to be measurable. And so this doesn't thrill me in that way, but I think a huge huge thing that you could do, would be to just show sympathy to them and overt.
Sympathy. I was, I had two tickets in the last 30 years, and they were both within the last year and a half. And one of them, I Over a tall mountain pass in the wintertime. And I had a trailer on behind my the truck. And I didn't even think of it, and there's a trailer law. So the ticket was four hundred and sixty bucks. And as the guy gave me the ticket, I said, hey man, as I'm sorry, you have to do this.
I said, you know, no victim here and they're putting you in a position that you have to do something like this to me. And as I did it for a long time, and I just I couldn't live with myself. But sorry if you do that, man, and it was completely nice. But that planted the seed and he's thinking wait. I've never had anybody apologize. To me for me, having to do to them, what I do, huh? And that might be something that would make them, think about it a little bit.
I really think that as much as I was against their strategy years ago. Pete are and all the other folks that that did Cop Block and all that. I didn't believe it back at the time. But now I've got to say, they have they and their types. And now this horrible man, James Freeman. Are just making cops lives. So miserable that like, who wants to be a cop anymore and the more people that don't want to be the more that, okay. Well now now cops can have tattoos all over the place. Okay.
Now they don't have to show shave their goatees because we need more cops. And okay. Now we can lower this standard in this standard in this standard and now we have to pay more and pay more. And before you know, it it's going to be like a cast from idiocracy getting paid. 300 Grand a year because all the people who just don't want to deal with people being jerks to him. They're off. Now making ten times more money than they did as a cop doing
productive things. And like that's the I think that's the way to go. It'll actually be like the Village People. One Cop a bunch of crazy people. I'll push together. Yeah, and it's not just For police that sometimes using a logical methods of about getting your point across. So often it actually is using logical fallacies. You like government so much. Why don't you move to North Korea, your you're such a tyrant, or you look like you look like a fag in that costume.
You just do. I'm sorry. That might do more to encourage their insecurities than explaining the principles of Austrian economics and non-aggression ever will. It just because that's the method I'm always into using rationality. But sometimes it's insults. Sometimes it's just chopping at their ego. Sometimes it's saying none of us, think you're cool. If you do that, just as it's a big incentive. It has to be just a hit of dopamine. Every time someone says, thank
you for your service. Someone, who I don't even know, likes me. Wow. Look at this power. I have, I'm gonna get a pension people stand up and clap for me for doing my job. It's like, I mean, there's other The people who produce food, which we need to live and shelter. They don't get a round of applause.
I get a round of applause. So so yeah, I'm just constantly looking for any ideas to what chip away at the status mindset, anything else that comes to mind with may be planting a seed with officers and their co-conspirators in the military. You know, I actually think that the idea of insulting them. I would twist that to do it in a way.
And I forget what the saying is that, I heard recently that I just Loved you should never insult someone in a way that they know that you're insulting them are, that's the sign of class or something. And so I think in maybe instead of in the example you gave of you look like a fag in that. Getup you have on is just saying something like, hey, ii-i'm completely want to be compliant here. I mean, you're obviously you're the one with the costume.
You're the one with a golden brooch on your chest. I'm not, I'm not, I don't have your Authority. Well, by planting those seeds of rather than calling it a uniform calling to costume and rather than a badge a golden brooch later. When their buddies are saying. Yeah, man, we get to speed because we got a brass pass we can just flash if we get pulled over when they start thinking that they're going to think golden Brooke.
Oh man, there's a chance. Who knows but I think psychologically that's a that that could be a good thing and I think befriending cops and being very blunt with them. In a very nice way, but you say, hey, beware. Hey, it's good to beat your neighbor. I live down there at, you know, 123 at the corner of walk and don't walk. And if you ever need to borrow a lawn mower or anything, I'm there for you. Just come on down. Then, you know, try to be a good
neighbor. I'm a voluntary this, which is another word for being an anarchist, but just come down here. So we're going to have to, you know, you have to go or some beer. We're going to have to Hash this out sometime and they're gonna
be like, wow. I met this Anarchist and he was like, joking around about himself and being really cool and invited me over for a beer, like that is how In time that's going to help the next person who's getting pulled over and they say, hey, wait, I see you have some Anarchist literature. Oh, Anarchist. That's the cool guy. Down the street who invited me over for a beer. I think it's just it's a marketing and sales thing. It's if you're a Jehovah's Witness and you want to get a
bunch of people to join. What should you do? Be cool. Make people like you? Well, okay, maybe that's not a good example, but if you want to sell something be likable, be nice, be approachable. Be Honest be truthful set a good example short yet. Definitely disarming people with kindness has worked on me a lot. I've had so many where you know, I'm driving to this meeting or I'm waiting to call someone a time. Like, I am going to rip them on minutes. I'm going to tell them about this.
I'm so pissed off and then I'll call and I'll be like Keith man. What's happening Brother? I've been waiting to hear you call it. I'm like, I just wanted to see how everything was. Yes, and it's not that it's a It'll just be like wait, I guess it wasn't that big of a deal. I was just feeling like I needed to meet their assertiveness with more assertiveness and let them know that I won't be pushed around, but when they, you know, treated me with respect, it was
like, okay. Now I'm going to put my shield down and and I don't see was a total threat. So now we can have much more of a honest conversation. That is something that you mentioned freedomain radio and Stefan molyneux, and he was definitely someone Me, that got me seeing things. Clearly, with regards to the state. I came across his video arguing. No, it's not arguing. It's called the truth about
slavery. That was before, I knew anything about libertarianism or voluntourism, and it was just a history of slavery. I was so young at the time that I'm more or less thought slavery was a thing invented by the American founding fathers, and then was finally put away with when I I have said FDR. I'm not I'm not even sure if I would have said Lincoln to go to US Government schools or something and it's never because someone said they invented
slavery. It was always, you know, there's something that needs to be addressed about these Founders and they had slavery, that's what makes them unique if that's what makes them unique. This must have been getting some invention right here. So when it comes to what about molyneux's work is so important or that persuaded you. What was it about freedomain radio, you know, part of it was and he said, yeah, I know he's off putting.
I know he's narcissistic and I know, he's mean to people, and excuse me. Excuse me. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. And then charges right over them like a bull and I tried introduce people to him and everybody's hated him for that reason. And, however, I looked through that because he was logical so much of what he said just made sense, and even though I'm not a Say I'm unlike the other 99% of voluntariness who are computer software programmer, engineer
designers, not in that industry. I'm the one guy that isn't even though I'm that guy. I still kind of like to think analytically. And if you tell me two plus two, what does that equal? I said, well, I really want it to equal 5. Well the person who's into logic or engineering or anything like this is no unfortunately two plus two equals four and I wish it was 52. So do you but since it equals 4, we're going to have to go with
four. And I think that's the challenge that so many people have is, well, no, no military can't be bad because my dad actually served. And then to look and say, well, okay. That's a logical, fallacy know that, that doesn't make it. Okay. I think that, that that love for logic is what. For me, brought me around and made me recognize truths that beforehand. I didn't want to see or just, I couldn't even see a different
color lenses that were red. And so, of course, you can't say green, if you have red lenses on, I had to put on clear lenses. And now I say, That and that's I'm going to call myself out. Just like you did when we spoke a while back. You like. Yeah, you call it and clear that's a little bit, you know, that's biased and it absolutely is in 5 years. I could come to realize that the real true truth in life. The clear glasses are being a good Republican. Who knows? I could come up.
Yeah, if I don't regress, but who knows. But at this point, I think that that that logic is the foundation with which we can And various social theories and then pick them apart and decide this does kind of make more sense. Yeah, and it is true what you said about needing to put a good face on something before, you know, people will accept it. Because as great as molyneux has I know people that hear the
word. I said, the I said his name in front of someone the other day and she just goes, could not. Look only responded with sound cover eyes for us. And I go. Okay. I'm just gonna have to use a different mechanism and you know it as much as I like to say, I came to this totally logically by applying principles consistently, you know, had I not met a bunch of people who I thought were men artists who
turned out to be an artist. I don't know if I ever would have even considered it. I just remember being at this seminar and this it was Isaac Morehouse. I'm sure I could tell it and I said, Isaac, I'm not this guy. Guy in there, who like doesn't believe in government at all. Isn't that isn't that wild? He goes neither, do I goes and anything anything, the state can do, the market can do better that, that Society needs at least more or less than should
be voluntary. And he gave me the, you know, difference between a Min artist and an anarchist six months, kind of thing. And I go. Oh my God, Isaac's one of them too. So what was it? So I in the conversation that I'm sitting around a table. I'm God. I must have been 15 or 16. At the time. I had gotten a cigar and I got to the cool guy table where all the professor's were talking and, and I didn't have anything to contribute. I'm just sitting there listening
and someone goes kid. How did you first of all, are you 18? Not because we care, because we don't want to get in trouble. How did you come to a place like this? And I, and I explained how, you know, a friend of mine. Gave me a tip on great up libertarian meet up. And I go. Yeah, and you know, it's crazy. I mean I've even met some manner because so it's been a wild ride. And he goes, yeah, that's pretty much what, what what all of us are. And I look around the table.
And it's these guys in nice suits, drinking, scotch on the rocks with these nice cigars, who I've been knowing, you know, we're getting to know and says, and see how smart they are hearing that they were in our guess I go. Wait. So I can be this an Argus without being a bandana wearing through trash cans. Our okay maybe I will consider it after all so it's not always logic but what are some other logical fallacies that you think are important for people to be aware of.
So they are not to be manipulated by the ideology of statism. You know, I think ad hominem is a favorite but I say ad hominem. I think that has Latin Origins, but here's what I'm thinking is knowing the names of Chuckle fallacies is not as important as understanding when somebody uses something that's wrong. So I know more than most people about logical. Fallacies. I'm probably in the top 1% in the world.
They're only, what is that? Another 700,000 people that know more than me or 7 million whatever. I'm in the top 1%, but I couldn't list 20 of them to you right now. I'd be lucky to list five or ten. So, don't, I would encourage those of you who are interested in? Logic, don't worry about learning the Latin names and some of them if it's confusing skip over go to an easy one.
That's more fun. But ad hominem is a against the person is what this argument is. And so here Keith is arguing for anarchism. The guy doesn't even have. I mean, he's not even a professor. So that is an ad hominem argument. I am attacking Keith and this would be a Authority that I'm attacking him, which is a particular type of ad hominem argument. But when I'm saying that, because he doesn't have a title or a position there for his argument against Anarchy is wrong.
Well. No, that's not the fact. There are other types of ad hominem. I actually opened my book right here, there is abusive. So this would be just going off. I can't believe that you would say something like that. You're so stupid. Okay, but we haven't gotten back to the original argument, which was two plus, two equals four or five, doesn't matter how stupid you are. It doesn't matter. If you're a professor, what matters is going back to our
original argument. So I think, I think that's a huge one that people mess up on. They appeal to Authority and they say, well, this person is in a position of authority. So, what they say must be must be right? And there's another one. I don't even know the name. Of it, but it's the form of an argument of saying some dogs are animals. Some animals have four legs. Therefore this animal that I see in front of me.
This chicken has four legs. No, not always does a plus b. If a is present and B is present, C does not always also exist and there it gets kind of complex much easier. Looking at a piece of paper. But once you look at it a little bit on the page of a book and then you think about examples in your own life. You think know, being law-abiding? Taxpaying citizen does not equal good. Now some Good people are law-abiding and taxpaying but not all good. People are law-abiding and taxpaying.
There are some people that that one, dude. Long-haired hippie looking dude. He was like throwing people out of the temple. So he wasn't law by he hated tax collectors and Jesus do to Jesus or whatever. You're like 2,000 years ago. Like he was not a law-abiding, tax-paying guy, but there are a lot of Christians out there. That would say no, he's still a good dude. Dude, and I think that's true today.
Maybe a person is an anarchist and they could be a very good person or they could be a person claiming to be an anarchist, but they're really a chassis type of person which is the opposite of Anarchy. Exactly. Yeah. Ones that have really stuck out to me, was I think it was published in the 1960s, Iran's the virtue of selfishness, where she talks about the argument from intimidation. This is also known as the argument from disapproval. So it's, oh God Shepherd.
Hold on, you really believe in this volunteers? Wow, dude. I mean, I don't, I don't even know. No, I think I don't want to be stupid. I don't even know what to say. I mean, do you know how few of you there are? Wow, dude. Goodbye. You're not worth my time in there. I gave a lot of disapproving statements. None of which consisted of what voluntourism is and why it is
irrational or unjustifiable. Bible, but we so often, we'll miss the the forest, the tree in the forest because we're so worried about not not being liked. The other one is unobtainable perfection. I read about this in an excellent book titled, how to win every argument they use and abuse of logic. Unobtainable Perfection is the claim that something is bad because I mean, it's, it's not perfect at all.
Well, yes, my My position isn't perfect, but nor are any of the Alternatives. So you claiming I'm not perfect is not a justification. For example, under anarchism. There could be corruption. There could also be a fraud, there could be murder. There could be theft. Yes, that can all happen under any society, fascism communism, socialism syndicalism anarchism voluntourism.
All I'm saying is we shouldn't legitimize any group to have the right to do any of those things and call them the Mint group and force us to fund them against our will and the third one that always comes to mind is avoiding the root. So when you're trying to communicate something to someone it is really bad that the police are, you know, arresting people for victimless crimes. People who have not initiated aggression against anyone else and they will say so.
So you're against people being safe and people having their property protected. No, no, the root of the problem is the initiation of islands, all those other things. I'm totally cool with them. They can probably be done better with locks and security cameras and you having your own firearm. But but what they'll do is you'll say I'm against the state that got your against education, your against roads. I love those things. The root of the problem is the
initiation of violence. If we understood those, I mean, 99.9% of statism would just be dead on arrival, laughed out of the Intellectual courtroom, any other logical fallacies that come to mind or any books on logical fallacies? You recommend people check out, you know, actually a book that I'm reading right now. That is so good. I started it years ago and I don't know how I put it down. I might have read through it but finding some, at least new ones
to me, but I'm elderly. So I probably forgotten them. The name of the book is logically fallacious, bibo Bennett and so I'm and I'm actually, I'm very strong believer in the idea of anything. Thing that you want to be good at in life, the old nursing adage. See, one do one, teach one. So I am reading. I'm seeing it and then I am thinking of my own example of a, the fallacy that's doing one and then I'm teaching one. So I'm making just a short.
I'm trying to keep them to one or two or three Minute Podcast just a little sections and so I'll record it and I will teach that logical fallacy. And so I have those on Odyssey.com. If you look up, logical, fallacies, I'm Since Odyssey is fairly new, it will probably pop up with some of mine. If you add the word Shepherd, then it definitely will. But you'll probably find somebody who has a better personality than me or whatever. Go to Wikipedia. Look them up there.
I just strongly recommend, you know, one a day for a month, even if you did one a day for a year and you're not going to remember them all, I sure don't, but in the back of your brain, you just might remember him. So, yeah, logically fallacious is a good good option. Excellent Shepherd. The Voluntarist. Thank you so much for your time. What is the name of your Odyssey Channel? I definitely want to put that in the description for people to
check out. I don't know if you heard but Corbett, just got banned on patreon. People are getting taken down off YouTube left and right. It's getting worse every day. What's your out of c channel? I don't know what the name of it is. I think Shepherd the voluntary. Estai. Bet you, if you put that in, it'll pop up and if not if you go to openly voluntary. Come from there. You'll be able to find my my content. Thanks for asking. Thanks for having me on, of course. Yes, and I'll find it.
I will put it in the description. I really love the logical fallacy videos, you do because I can always spare 90 seconds. Sometimes it's hard to emotionally, commit to an introduction, and then people's back story. And then into a conversation with this, it's a minute and 30 seconds, which I love it. Good. Good. Ooh, yo, watch, so definitely check out Shepherds work. Shepherd, thanks so much for your time. And thank you. Yeah, thanks to everyone for
watching. Keith Knight. Don't tread on anyone and the libertarian Institute.