Blowback, Intervention, and RussiaGate. Scott Horton and Keith Knight

What strikes me as ridiculous is the right-wing view that the same government, that is incompetent and dangerous domestically at least in economic and social Affairs has some sort of Midas Touch internationally such that it can bring freedom, democracy and Justice to any land its troops deign to invade the precise. Critique of government that they offer for the welfare state and Regulatory measures that they are expensive. Counterproductive, and hobble

human energies applies. Many times over to Oil interventions, welcome to Keith's night. Don't tread on anyone today. We'll be talking with the author of this book Fool's. Errand. Scott Horton is the managing director of the libertarian Institute host of anti-war radio for Pacifica. 90.7, FM. Kpfk in Los Angeles, Scott. Thank you for your time. Thank you again for having me, Keith great to talk to you again. So, I want to get into the Bill

Clinton years which until sometime ago. I always referred to as the greatest peacetime in history because I I hadn't looked into it. I'm curious. What was the u.s. Role in Kosovo? Oh, okay. Well, so this is a huge problem at a problem and I got to tell you that the breakup of Yugoslavia is not my speciality, the original, you know, it was a communist country during the days of the Soviet Union was not part of the Soviet Union. It was independent under Tito but it was essentially a

stalinist dictatorship. Just was not directly aligned with the USSR. But anyway at the end of the Cold War and Breakup of the Soviet Union, then Yugoslavia began to break up on ethnic lines. She had the bosnians, the crow adds the serbs, and there's a whole other story here about how the Americans made matters worse there, and ruin the compromise, and really started the war that

then later. They pretended to be the great Heroes for solving when they were the ones who kind of screwed everything up in the first place, but then Kosovo was part of what was left of Serbia. By the end of the 1990s and it was, I don't know the exact numbers, but it was a majority, possibly even a supermajority populated by then, by ethnic albanians, who were Muslim and a different ethnicity.

Now this had been part of some ancient Serbian Kingdom going back to the year, whatever the hell and so was considered even I think in part kind of the Cradle of Serbian civilization once upon a time, but, at this point, it Is, you know, dominated by far by the ethnic Albanian group and they wanted

to secede? I'm not so sure that was the popular opinion, but it was certainly the opinion of the Armed factions that were leading the fight and they were called the Kosovo Liberation Army. And many of them were leftover. Jihadis from Carter and Reagan. Sworn Afghanistan in the 1980s when America was on the side of the mujahideen fighting against the Soviet Union. And that was true for the Bosnia War of the mid 90s as well. 94 95 era. That was where Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.

The ringleader of the September 11th, attack ramzi, Yousef. So Uncle he earned his Stripes, They're fighting in Bosnia on the American side. And there were many other of these Bin Laden Knights who are tied to the KLA. And the KLA really self was not so much a Bin Laden. I organization as a bunch of Mafia gangsters drug dealers and or And traffickers and in fact, their, their president or former president who I don't know how to pronounce these names.

So it makes them hard to memorize, but this was the guy was Notorious for cutting people's organs out and selling them on the black market was, you know, his particular brand of War crime here. And this was, you know, they called him, the clintonites called him. You know, Kosovo is Thomas Jefferson and all this stuff. So In, I'm just going for memory here because you didn't warn me

were talking about this. It was, I think must have been March of 1999, right after Bill Clinton's acquittal in the Senate. It was April 99, they issued, what was called the ramble. Yay, Accord. And that's a city somewhere another. I forget where they came up with this thing, and they called it, the ramble you a peace, Accord Madeleine, Albright was Secretary of State and was behind it.

But In a piece of cord at all. It was an absolute unacceptable ultimatum, unconditional surrender essentially. And so it was not just saying You must allow Kosovo to be independent. It said you must allow NATO troops to occupy all of Serbia, including I guess the parlamentary building and whatever else they want, do whatever they want. So it was made to be rejected. It was just a poison pill, they called it a peace deal and then once milosevic the Serbian president rejected.

It then they launched this war and at the time that they launched it, they go. Oh this just just take a weekend. We're just going to bomb Serbia for a couple of days and they're going to give in and do what we say, but of course then that didn't work out.

So instead they bomb them for about six weeks and thing, there's dragged on and on and they kill thousands of innocent civilians and eventually they did succeed in breaking off Kosovo. Oh, and I should say that it was the major facet of this story is that they absolutely lied us into war just like George w-- Bush in the weapons of mass

destruction. Bill Clinton had a massive fake pretext for Intervention, which was that America was preventing a genocide that the serbs were murdering all of the ethnic albanians. And that of the time that we were intervening already 100 thousand. Innocent kosovar, civilians had already been killed by the serbs 100,000 turns out. That was an absolute lie. Never happened at all and after the war FBI went to go and find the mass Graves and they went home after two weeks because

there was nothing to find. It was totally like, a Judy Miller tail. Hey, see that that mountain over there or that big hill side. Well, there's a cave and down in that cave. There's like 50000 bodies. Trust me. Well, I'll show it to you later report that and then, you know, that's the stuff that gets on the air and Christian Amanpour. The famous International correspondent from CNN, got married to was it.

Jamie Ruben, I think. Jamie Reuben, the state department spokesman during the whole thing. And so she's interviewing him on TV about. Okay. What lie are we telling today? And they're just the whole thing is just a complete ridiculous conspiracy to lie Us in the war and they had, you know, one example of a of a thing was, there was a fence around this kind of electrical Transformer something. I think it was, it was like, you know, stay back, danger high

voltage thing. So, an American News photographer climbed Over the fence to the inside of this enclosure. And then took pictures of the children on the outside of the fence and then sent those pictures off to run in the newspaper and on TV. As, look at these, terrible children being held in this concentration, camp in the thing. And all this is all completely made up. They pretended keep that 100,000 innocent people had just been lined up and shot at the end of the war.

They found 3,000 bodies and they were all fighting age males. Now, that doesn't mean they were all guilty of being Fighters. I'm not saying that for all we know.

It was 3,000 lined up and shot. Although I really doubt it, but it certainly was nothing like 100,000 and a genocide in all of this is just a completely ridiculous pretext for war and in. So they killed thousands of civilians in the air war and one small anecdote is, before we get to, you know, I was skipping ahead there for a second. But now I'm skipping back during the war Wesley, Clark.

Arc General Wesley Clark, you might remember he ran for president 2004 and is famous for talking about Donald Rumsfeld staff showing them. The plan to attack seven countries in five years at the dawn of the terror War there. He was the Supreme Allied Commander of NATO forces in

Europe in Prosecuting that war. And there's an anecdote that the what happened was the Russians came and sees the Pristina Airport. And the Russians have, you know, long-standing ties to serbs who are fellow slobs. They share a ethnicity and a long history. The serbs were the heroes who fought the Nazis in World War Two and that theater in Europe there for their part.

And anyway, so the Russians came and seized the Pristina airport and Wesley Clark ordered the I forget, which forces, I guess, I must have British and American forces combined on the ground or something to attack the Russians at the Pristina airport. And there was a British general named Sir. Michael Jackson. Who told Wesley Clark. Hell, no, I'm not doing that. Belay that order. I'm not going to start World War Three for you.

That's a quote. Anybody can Google that up and then it turns out that the colonel on the ground who didn't want to attack. Was I know, I forget the first name. It's blunt, the famous singer from like 10 years ago or something named blunt. Do you know who I'm talking about? An English guy? James Blunt. He was The Colonel on the ground who didn't want to attack the Russians and then he asked Sir, Michael Jackson, no relation.

Hey, can I please not do this? And that was when the Sir Michael Jackson, essentially prevented Wesley, Clark. Work from starting world war three, right? Then it over some stupid War over Kosovo, which I defined people. I defy people to find on a map that is unmarked, you know this little Province formerly of Serbia over there in the Balkans.

And anyway, then after the war it was less about, I think five six weeks and killed a few thousand, sir civilians, including they bombed, the TV station and killed, the makeup Lady, and the janitor, and this kind of thing. It's just murder. Zombies bomb in a TV station, the red white and blue bombing a TV station. Is that what we do anyway, and then after it was over? Well, guess who actually got ethnically cleansed.

All the serbs that were left in Kosovo and there are, of course, giant pogroms against thin and the burning of their churches and the destruction of their property and the kidnapping of them and the stealing and selling of their organs by these war criminals. It's they see that was a name.

I was trying to remember earlier and I'm not sure if you pronounce it that a key or they see or what th a CI and he was the leader of the KLA and he was the guy you can, you can Google up the yellow house which they've now painted baby blue. And that was where the kidnap victims would wake up in a bathtub to find that their kidneys had been stolen and they had a couple hours to live or whatever it was.

Now. Is there any information you have about the u.s. In Bosnia that you could think of that is relevant that would apply to Understanding the foreign policy of Clinton. Yeah, I mean so to rewind that and that's the one that I know less about because in 94, I was just a junior in high school and I was not paying close attention, as it happened. I've read about it, you know, somewhat in hindsight, but I don't know as much about it from

like watching it in real time. But essentially, there was a deal between the crow at the bosnians who are the most Muslims. I think the Croquettes are Christians like the serbs but a different ethnicity. I could be wrong about that. I think so though and possibly different sect of Christian. I'm not sure. But anyway, there was the serbs the croats and the Bosnian Muslims were the three major factions in the breakup of Yugoslavia, and they have a deal where the an agreement, where

the croat sand. The Muslims would have a coalition government. They would form a majority and Coalition government and the serbs would be the loyal opposition in the minority but that they had developed enough protections and Promises of, you know, autonomy and respect for autonomy and kind of a federal system that the serbs had decided to agree to it. And then the American ambassador, a guy named Zimmerman came and told the crow

ATS. Being part of the ruling Coalition and getting everything you want. Isn't good enough, tell you what, we'll give you a bunch of weapons. If you refuse to accept the deal you've already accepted and instead attacked the serbs and the Croquettes took him up on it. And that was the start of the war. And which your pictures breaking up on me here, Keith, pretty bad. Can you hear me? Okay and everything I can hear you fine.

Yeah. Okay. So that was the start of the war and then it was a terrible War. Were atrocities on all sides and America sided with the cross and especially the Bosnian Muslims against the serbs. And, you know, people say that the serbs committed the worst atrocities. I don't know that. That's true. It may be true. There was this ever need some ask her and all that. But also you had good Old Roy dying here. I swear to God, I've got what Biden's gotten. I can't remember a thing anymore.

The Lachi reporter. Roy Gutman, who was good on Bahrain during the Arab Spring was horrible on Syria after that. Well, turns out back during Bosnia. He was the guy who came up with all these fantastic, Tales of Serbian rape rooms again, see that warehouse over there. Oh, yeah, it's full of Serbian women. I mean, Serbian men, raping Bosnian, Muslim women by the thousands and where I'll show it to you later. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we're get to that.

But, you know, bogus, More propaganda type stuff, and don't

get same thing with Gaddafi saying that he's getting his troops Viagra to commit Mass rape. That was on CNN, with Wolf Blitzer. And he's just like, oh, my fellow reporting. Absolutely. No primary sources. I know. I'm sorry. I have to bring this up on that tangent that I'll never forget. I love this anecdote so much. It's just that it's so instructive. I'm driving down Sunset, Boulevard in LA. And I'm listening to am talk radio and it's the after Rush Limbaugh clone guy.

And he's saying to his audience. Listen, even Susan Rice says the Qaddafi is giving Viagra to all of his troops to rape every woman and girl that he finds as they Rampage east across this country. And so, that's how, you know, for a fact that it's true. When even Susan Rice says that we have to Have a war that's when, you know, you have to have

a war and that's there's simple. Like the most obvious and simple kind of demonstration of confirmation bias and ridiculous, sort of thinking, you know, it goes without saying all the time, right? When the New York Times agrees with you. They admitted, it's true. They had to. And when they don't, they're just lying. Horrible bastards, but and that's true for you and me and everybody else. But there are some people who take it to just the worst degree

in the world. Where You know, that's just a great example of it. But then. So here's the thing of it meant is that America should have not intervene there at all in the first place and and nor in the second place and then if they were going to intervene, you might think they would have allied with their old allies. The serbs who had fought the Nazis in World War Two and had been useful during the Cold War in certain times. And the CIA had backed, right wing?

Factions among them and this kind of thing. Well, Not. So sure about that. I guess. Now, I think about Yugoslavia certainly in the region. They were playing those games. But anyway, certainly going back to World War Two. They were allies. And and there are the Christian side, and I'm not saying things should be so cut and dried and certainly again. I said we shouldn't have

intervened over there at all. But the fact that they intervene on the side of the Muslims, in Europe to carve out their own separate, autonomous State there, and at a time when they were, you know, heavily Influenced by Bin Laden nights, and infiltrated by Bin Laden, nights and had a lot of these radical, you know, Saudi back, preachers, running around this

stuff. And I think the way it's turned out like crystally, so has written about this and stuff, got the way it's turned out is, you know, Bosnia and Kosovo are certainly not run by Bin Laden night, factions. It has not turned out that, you know, the worst islamists have seized power in it or anything like that. But some really bad Bin Laden nights did fight in those Wars and earn credibility and respect.

And help to grow the bin Laden night, type movements around the Middle East that we've been dealing with. Since that time again, the most obvious and important example of that is Khalid Sheikh, Mohammed himself earned his respect as a mujahideen fighter in, fighting in, on Bill Clinton side in the Bosnian War. Now, it's just a few short, and that was ramzi. Yousef, say, Uncle ramzi Yousef, who had already attacked the World Trade Center in 1993.

Two years later, his mujahideen. Dean uncle is fighting on America side in Bosnia, were fighting on his side and then just a few short years after that his men knocked down our Towers. Well, thank you for getting into those just because it's so important to realize, the unintended consequences whether it's of the minimum wage or invading a country, and arming, a ton of people. We either don't hear about the interventions at all. Or we don't hear about the unintended consequences, a

really. Example of this is the u.s. Role in Pakistan. I was really not aware of this until I came across your work. What is the u.s. Doing in Pakistan? And what's happening over there? I'm sorry. Let me say one more thing on the last topic. Real quick. I'll switch right back to Pakistan. And I'm sorry, I may have said this on your show last week.

I forget. Now. I got what Biden's got but at right after September 11th, Bill, Clinton Senator, Tom, Lantos, and representative Brad Sherman. All said Well, I can't believe that the Muslims would attack us like this, after all, we've done for them. Mmm. They all said, I have the quotes in Fool's errand. All three of them. Said something to the effect of chase. After back in am in Bosnia and Kosovo and everything. They come back to sting us like

this. I just can't believe it which, you know, goes to show probably why they had really let their guard down to a great degree that overall Bin Laden. I terrorists. Yeah the useful. The CIA, use them to kill people. We need killed sometimes. What's the problem? Even though they'd already attacked the World Trade Center. They blew up a truck bomb in the basement. That if they had only parked it, 20 meters to the left.

They would have knocked down one Tower into the other and killed, 30,000 people in an instant back in 1993. When Bill Clinton have been in president for a month and a week. You know, which imagine the history of the 1990s, if it had been like that instead Waco happened the next day and nobody cared and it all, you know, was Bear because only six people died that the attack failed, you know, but as though, the president hadn't been set.

All you have to do is use your imagination, a little bit truck bomb in the basement brakes, one Tower at the bottom. It falls over, starting at the bottom and just like that hits the other Tower. Maybe knocks it all the way over. 2 and into other buildings to I mean you talk about catastrophe. Holy crap. What almost happened in the first World, Trade Center

bombing right there. The idea that Bill Clinton or anyone on his staff could think that these people are still a tolerable Menace because we can use them against Qaddafi, which they try to do with MI6 in 1996 to kill Qaddafi or because we can use them in chechnya to bog down the Russians, or because we can use them in Bosnia for some nonsense greeson. Against the serbs that if that's our agenda, these guys are more

useful than they are dangerous. Was apparently the attitude as Bill Clinton himself, and Tom Lantos, and Brad Sherman. All three said, I'm so surprised this happen after all, we've done for these men. And I mean, if that ain't the perfect illustration, God, dang. Now on Pakistan.

Basically, the deal is that the and I talked about this in the book, of course the battle. Tora Bora, the Americans killed about half of the al-Qaeda guys and their fellow Travelers there, you know, local security forces and mujahideen who were running with them. At the time.

There was a group of about 180 who crossed the border into Pakistan and were seized by the Pakistani, Frontier Corps and busted and turned over rendition back to God knows where then there was another about 150 or so somewhere between 80 and 100, 50 they say. Including Bin Laden and Ayman, al-zawahiri, who escaped across the border and then went their separate ways to their different hideouts. And what have you and a great number of these guys?

Well, relatively speaking, a great number of these guys found Refuge with the Pakistani Taliban, the tarika Taliban, which is a separate group entirely, totally separate chain of command in every, in every way from the Afghan Taliban and they live in What's called the Northwestern federally administered tribal. Tribal territories of Pakistan. In other words, a part of Pakistan were the national government. Essentially has no reach.

It's just absolutely forbidding ancient Mountain terrain that's ruled by its locals and nobody else and always has been kind of an area. And, you know, they have varying degrees of control there from time to time. But so, you know, the SWAT Valley is included in that area. And you'll, you'll remember, hearing a lot of talk about North waziristan and South waziristan. And for a long time, they thought maybe Bin Laden was

hiding there. Among the turkey Taliban out there in those tribal areas and that kind of thing. Okay. So end of the Bush era. He starts doing drone attacks inside. Pakistan with the cooperation of the Pakistani military. And and this is so they could target al Qaeda members that have gone from Afghanistan to Pakistan. That's right. And Obama comes in and says, essentially, you remember his narrative was the Iraq War. Was a big distraction from the real war.

The good war that we should be fighting in Afghanistan and in Pakistan now, assuming something. Alms for the sake of argument about the propriety of America waging a terror War, something like that for the sake of argument, then. Yeah, he's got a point that actually killing Bin Laden's. Best friends and co-workers would be a bit more legitimate than overthrowing the baathist and fighting a war for the Iranians and Iraq, are some ridiculous crap. Like that.

Turning the entire West into Bin Laden University out there. So he made a point as far as that goes. But there were no Qaeda in Afghanistan and you know, Obama for all his tough talk in the campaign. He really only wanted to send a couple of brigades to Afghanistan just so that we can put off losing a little longer. He wasn't trying to win that but then they rolled his ass and I

talked about this in the book. The Coin Denise does and all of that section where they rolled him into tripling, the size of the war, whether he ended up with 100,000 American soldiers on the ground, plus another 40,000 NATO and the whole counterinsurgency. Pain, under McChrystal and Petraeus and all this crap. Well, they called this whole policy, the afpak doctrine, you know, with a hyphen in their

afpak. And that what it said was you can't win the war in Afghanistan unless you're fighting a regional war against the actual enemy regardless of where the line is sort of like complaining about the VC running up and then VA running up and down the Ho Chi Minh trail and crossing the border and in finding Safe Haven in. Cambodia and Laos. We have to deny them that safe haven. We can't let them have safe haven just because of an imaginary line on the ground.

We got to go in there and get him right at said there was no al-Qaeda in Afghanistan. They were not part of the war at all. So as far as fighting the war in Pakistan on behalf of the war in Afghanistan, you might think that they would be targeting the leaders of the Afghan Taliban. That's who the enemy was in Afghanistan. That's what we're fighting against, but no, they weren't

doing that at all. The quetta shura council that ruled the Afghan Taliban. Ban was based out of quetta, the city in southern Pakistan and McConnell the, the chief of director National Intelligence told me told Obama on his first day in office. Oh, yeah. No, we can't do drone strikes in quetta his way to population dense. We could wait too many innocent people and caused absolute Mayhem in Pakistani society.

And so hands off the Afghan Taliban on the Pakistani side of the Border. What's, what the hell are we doing there? What does that have to do with the war in Afghanistan? Actually nothing. They packaged it like that, but they're not doing anything about the Afghan Taliban, finding Safe, Haven on the Pakistani

side. But what they are doing is they are trying to hunt down the last Arab friends of Osama bin Laden and so beginning, you know, again beginning in late Bush era, but then, especially in the first four years of Obama, they ramped up this massive drone War, CIA, drone, me. War in Pakistan against, you know, hunting, these Arabs, these last few friends have been Laden and zawahiri.

And the thing is about it, is that it was, you know, apparently it was effective at killing almost all of the last guys. And I don't know how many people were talking about. Maybe, you know, certainly low hundreds probably less than 100 actual real targets there that they were after and they killed a lot of innocent people in the process and part of that was just so called. Lateral damage and innocent civilians being killed in the strikes against the the Arabs there.

But part of it also was American support for the Pakistani. Army's invasion of the northern region there in order to take it to the tarika Taliban the Pakistani Taliban. So Obama essentially had made a deal with the pakistanis. If you let us use our drones to Target these Arab see, you know, Al-Qaeda guys, then we will help you. And support you and your war against the turkey.

Taliban. And which did work because the to rekey Taliban had seized control over the entire SWAT Valley and that was a bridge too far for the Pakistani government. They were determined to reverse that and so they did. So so couple of major about three major results of this. First of all, I don't know. I shouldn't. I shouldn't limit the number. I may get to 45 one of the major results of this was just the

absolute literal terrorism. I'm against the civilian population of Pakistan. There's a great you know study. I guess by think Seton Hall called living under drones about what it's like to be a Pakistani civilian and these young children growing up, afraid of the sunshine in the blue sky because that's when the drones murder people seemingly at random and you know a gray sky is the only time they feel safe

to go outside at all. And then as far as they can tell, there's no Rhyme or Reason to who gets killed with a Hellfire. Missile by a Reaper drone that comes murders their Grandma, you know, and we're talking about tearing people's lives, till a little shreds here. We're not talking about grandma died. In a bed. We're talking about somebody murdering your grandma with a 500 pound bomb in her garden and

blowing her to bits. And this is what these people are living through and they never know when their next they have. No Rhyme or Reason. There's guilt has nothing to do with it, associating with the wrong people doesn't appear to have anything to do with it. It's random to them. And it's just absolute hell on Earth was what they did in those people. They're driving them absolutely out of their minds dealing with the stress of years and years of just drones hovering over their

communities and murdering them. Then another part of how it all went. Was that the this caused what the Pakistani journalist Saleem, shahzad called the al-Qaeda ization of To rekey Taliban. They kind of had been hanging out with some of these guys. Some of the al-Qaeda, you know, leftovers, but the more America waged war against them together, the more it radicalize them and push them together

ideologically. So then the turkey Taliban became, you know, and they had been focused just really on, securing their own land, and all of that kind of thing. Now, they were being inculcated with this expansionist ideology and what we really need to do. Do is go back up to La tea and taking it to the Indians and Kashmir. And what we really need to do is escalate the war in Afghanistan.

And what we really need to do is recreate the ancient corazón Kingdom and all it. Just whatever crap that had never been part of the ideology of the Pakistani Taliban. Now, they're becoming much more, you know, kind of radicalized and internationalized and then during the real fighting of the Pakistani war against the tree. Taliban in 2010, many of them fled across the border to Afghanistan to find Safe Haven there and then you'll love this. Well, you're not surprised.

I know you read the book the CIA and the Afghan government were using these members of the Pakistani Taliban to attack, Pakistani government Targets on the Pakistani side of the line and to hunt down and kill members of the Afghan Taliban who were seeking. Safe Haven in Pakistan. And so hit the, the Americans and the Afghan government, the Kabul government resented, the pakistanis for backing, the Afghan government. The Afghan Taliban against them

all this time. So he said, payback's a bitch. Let's, I know, let's back these to rekey Taliban guys who've come come into Pakistan, come into Afghanistan. And we'll do this. Tit-for-tat thing against the pakistanis is see how they like it. And then and we'll kill some Afghan. Taliban will have your won't be surprised to learn audience. I know. Oh, Keith already knows that.

This is the group that later, hoisted, the Black Flag and declared themselves Isis. And then they're now known as Isis. Corazón or Isis khorasan. Province is KP or you know, all these different kind of letter, acronyms are given initials. They're given and and these guys are now essentially as Saleem, shahzad was predicting back before the Pakistani intelligence service. Murdered him. By the way, you can go back and listen, my interviews of him. That, that this is exactly what

happened. Was that to rekey Taliban got Al Qaeda Eyes by the Drone war and fighting common cause and and and fighting, you know, under the same rain of bombs together with the al-Qaeda, guys under the Drone Wars and that, you

know, radicalize them. They ended up joining Isis and declaring their loyalty to baghdady and the goals of the Islamic State. And which, you know, of course, they're relatively small group, their augmented somewhat by disaffected Taliban factions and that kind of thing, but in the current state of things in the war in Afghanistan. The Taliban have them far overmatched. So there's no reason to think that. Oh no, if we leave, Isis will have the run of the place.

It's our intervention that brought them there and the Afghan Taliban have. Plenty of incentive, of course, to limit their power, dominate them, kill them, integrate them, or whatever, they have to do, to limit their competition. And so, you know, it's not as a favor to us. It's because it's in their own interest, of course, to limit the power of this group. So when When you hear people invoke, Isis in Afghanistan, is some kind of Safe Haven, myth of why we have to stay and fight there.

I'll just tell the Green Berets have been growing Isis this whole time. They've been fighting him since 2016. The more we kill him, the bigger they get. And you remember when Donald Trump well, they said, it was. Donald Trump really wasn't. Donald Trump was just this, the Special Operations Command dropped. The Moab bomb on those caves. Please sir. That'll show him. Well, guess what? It showed him. It showed him, that we are important. Look at how serious the Americans take us.

And there was an article by local. I think Pakistani expert in the New York Times, op-ed column criticizing it, where he said, guess what? The iskp radio station in nangarhar province has been bragging and bragging that the Americans dropped their biggest bomb their biggest non-nuclear. R bomb on them and saying see how important we are. And so people don't join up because oh I want to get bombed by a giant bomb.

They join up because how dare you bomb us with a giant bomb will show you and then they rally the same as we get mad when they knock our towers down same kind of thing. And so this is good. PR. It does nothing but help them and grow their group sure. They lost 20 guys in that but they gained 200 in all the publicity from it and all of that. And then it's so the one last thing I'll say Is the few surviving Arab real members of Al Qaeda who were there

eventually decide? Well, she getting drone bombed, like this is inconvenient. Let's go home. And so a lot of them than went and hitchhiked home, and they went back to Yemen and back to Libya and back to Syria where they were from. It's cause further problems and when we're talking about man, we're talking about the 2009 10, 11 era, the early Obama years, and then what happened after that. These guys All went home and spread their Jihad home and I don't know if you're going to

ask me about Libya or not. But just in case in July of 2012, the Americans killed a Libyan Al-Qaeda terrorist named shaykh Yahya al-libi in Pakistan. A Libyan Al-Qaeda guy a real Aspen lot night in Pakistan and they drone bombed him to death and he might remember that name. I'll Libby. Well, it just means from Libya, but actually in this case he was the brother of It's been a Libby who Dick Cheney and the CIA and Hosni Mubarak tortured in 2002.

Into blaming Saddam Hussein for teaching Al-Qaeda how to hijack planes and make chemical weapons. Then they rendition him home to Libya, were Qaddafi. Who was then compliant and a pet of the Americans murdered him in his prison cell and they called it a suicide. Remember that. Well by 2012, America had just taken out qaeda's side in the war in Libya, the Libyan Islamic

fighting. Eating group and ansar al-sharia and essentially the Libyan Veterans of al-Qaeda in Iraq, from Iraq, war to the guys who the foreign Fighters had gone to fight against the Americans. And the Shia in Iraq, word to will Obama turns around and takes their side in the war. In 2011. They win the war, they Lynch and murder Qaddafi. They take over the country at

least temporarily. It's not, you know, Civil War unending since then, but in September on September 11th, 2012. The al-Qaeda guys, take their revenge and murder, Christopher Stevens. And the guys at the makeshift consulate, there in the Benghazi Massacre. And of course, the CIA, guys, at the safe house, down the road as well. And what was going on there. Just like Bill Clinton in the 90s. Well, geez were so surprised. The al-Qaeda guys would kill us after all, we've done for them.

We just fought this whole War for them against Qaddafi. And here we are. Why's Why are they in Benghazi in the first place? Cuz there's shipping mujahideen terrorists and and Qaddafi, stolen weapons off to Syria for the next war on behalf of al-Qaeda. Against the Shiite aligned forces there.

And so that's why they're even there, but left hand, and right hand, it's one Administration, but they're not coordinating this stuff and nobody's saying, hey, might it be a problem if we're murdering Libyan Al-Qaeda guys in Pakistan. At the same time. We're backing Libyan. Al-Qaeda guys, in Libya. Because guess what happened? Ayman, al-zawahri here. He himself, put out a podcast

saying, hey, libyans. Look what they did to shaykh Yahya al-libi, your guy, our Loyal Fighter here in Pakistan, but you know what? I heard that Americans have a makeshift Consulate in Benghazi and September 11th is coming up. And so zawahiri recommended this attack and they did it and that was the true origin of the Benghazi attack was on one hand. They were in the middle. They were up to their necks in high trees and backing their enemies.

The al-Qaeda guys while on the other hand they were fighting against their enemies in Pakistan and by killing one of them inspired this Revenge attack in Libya. So talked about I think we talked before about the limited hang out there in Gazi where they blame the lack of security but without talking about the real problem was that, they were funneling, all these guns and Terrace off to Syria. Well, this is the other side of it.

The Drone war in Pakistan, that set off the whole thing Heavens. So we have Bin Laden's letter in around 2001 2002 where he cites,

one of his complaints against the us as supporting Russian atrocities against Alms in chechnya and then Vladimir Putin, when talking to Oliver Stone, says that the u.s. Was actually supporting the terrorists against the Russians. What is the story? If you know anything about the u.s. Involvement in the chechnyan war? They're both right? Of course. Yeah. No, I mean, it's it is said, I don't know how solid this is, but it is said that Bill Clinton paid the entire cost of Russia's

war in chechnya. That he essentially told Boris Yeltsin and Vladimir Putin. His Deputy who was in charge of Prosecuting that war starting in 1997. You guys do what you got to do. Will pick up the tab at the same time. The CIA was backing the mujahideen. Many of these guys were leftovers from the Afghan war of the 1980s. And the Americans were playing both sides of the game. And in fact, you know, I'm not sure if anybody ever wrote a whole book about this or anything like that.

I know calling Rowley, the former FBI agent, former FBI lawyer for Minneapolis who her and her team had busted zacarias moussaoui. And could have stopped the 9/11 attack. If their bosses had let them do their job. Back in August of 2001. She has written about this if you Google Coleen Rowley and chechnya, you can find some stuff there and God dang, you know, I am trying to think. Of. Where I have read some good stuff about this, you know, just

a raimondo and anti-war.com. They have written a bit about this back then too. But this is something that I, I'm glad you brought it up because it's something that I really would like to know more about I have in Fool's, errand. I think I have two or three footnotes there. I know one of them is Coleen Rowley. I don't remember what the others were, but I know American support for the mujahideen in chechnya in the 90s, get some mention, and I had a few sources there.

So hopefully that'll do some good.

It does remind me of an article. I came across in the Los Angeles Times, where it said in Syria, Pentagon Forces, fight CIA, backed sort that CIA Rebels. I'm sorry. I don't have the exact quote. I didn't think of it until now. Are you familiar with a fight in Syria? That was partly funded on one side by the Pentagon and the other side by the CIA. Yeah.

No question about. So the entire the CIA operation started in 2011. Eleven, well, really go back to 2006 and the redirection, but you know, 2011 Arab Spring Breaks out CIA, Obama and see, I take the side of the, the uprising there, which very quickly was dominated, by mujahideen terrorists, al-Qaeda in Iraq and and people very close to them in fighting. And so America, the Americans continued to call these guys moderate Rebels and to prosecute

this policy for all of this. Time until in 2013, Al Qaeda in Iraq in Syria, which at that time was called Al nusra job, but on this row, which is like, the association of Assistance or helpers or something like this, which is that's just al-Qaeda in Iraq, from Iraq, war to zarqawi's group. The worst of the Sunni Insurgency that fought the Americans in the Shia, in Iraq, word to they had come into Syria. So that's why I call it Al Qaeda in Iraq in Syria. And already, they really had

already called themselves. The Islamic State of Iraq, starting in 2006. When they had no power to create one but still they're making their Ambitions very clear. They come across they dominate. The whole rebellion in Syria. That doesn't stop Obama in the CIA from continuing to back them on and on and on and on and on all the way through in 2013.

They break away from al-qaeda's Authority and is really a fight over control of oil and the different basically the araki dominated faction of Kata in, Iraq, and Syria. And the Syrian dominated faction of al-Qaeda in Iraq and Syria, baghdady versus Joe Lonnie and Jelani, I think, you know, was trying to run away with the oil and Baghdad. He got mad and there was a doctrinal fight as well about

the al-Qaeda fight. Again, their Doctrine always was to fight the far, enemy to fight the United States to bog the United States down. And to keep fighting essentially until the Empire is exhausted and butts all the way out of the Middle East and only then, can they try to create their caliphate and wage their local revolutions when the American suit superpower is no longer there to destroy it. Well, baghdady said screw that. I want to be the caliph right

now. I want to do the stuff right now. And in fact, zawahiri sent an old friend of Bin Laden or an OG mujahideen guy from the 80s to go and mediate and back, Daddy killed him and it It's like, you know Andrew Jackson saying of the Supreme Court, the chief justice has made his law. Let's see him enforce it. Right. It's a walker. He's hiding in the in a basement in Pakistan somewhere. What the hell's he got to say about what's going on here?

So at that point, Isis broke away from Al-Qaeda and seize control, essentially Consolidated Eastern Syria as a separate State under their control. I mean, south of the Kurds, but the rest of Eastern Syria, and then a year A year after that, in 2014 was when they rolled into Western Iraq. And declared the caliphate and bag. Daddy gave his big speech in mosul where he declared himself the caliph Ibrahim.

And this is, you know, a Biblical, you know, Bin Laden night, islamist State, and all of that. Well at that time then the military was assigned a mission to support some Moderate Rebels. Only in this case. The moderate Rebels job was not to be fighting against the Assad

government. It was to fight against Isis and so the military trained up these guys in conflating two different things, but this story's funny anyway, so I'll tell it first they trained up this group of I think it was five hundred guys. I spent 500 million dollars has like a hundred guys. So in five hundred million dollars during like a hundred guys, and they cross them into the border from Turkey into Into Syria and they're immediately rounded up and imprisoned or

shot and killed. And the whole thing is just completely over an instant. Anyway, sorry, that's the tangent. That was just funny. Then, the other thing, the military was assigned once Iraq were three started, which includes, you know, western part

me Eastern Syria as well. Once the, you know, the full invasion of Iraq happen in the summer of 2014 and Obama starts, Iraq, war three against the caliphate at that point, the military embeds, with the Curve. It's in northeastern Syria and the Syrian Kurds are in the middle of this giant battle for the city of kobani, that the Islamic State are trying to take away from them. And the military, basically

comes and helps to some degree. I don't want to give him the credit or whatever, but to some degree, they come and help the Kurds and save the day to drive the Islamic State forces back from kobani. And they make an alliance with the Kurds. Then this is the Kurdish group is called the ypg, which is the Syrian. Branch of the pkk which are, you know, basically leftist Kurdish guerrillas based out of turkey and you know, they have their rainy and faction as well. And in Iraq, the Kurds are

dominated by different factions. But anyway, in this case, they renamed the ypg, the SDF the Syrian Democratic forces and they included some Arabs from anti-isis militias as well. And this is the group that you're talking about from the LA Times headline. That the CIA back guys are straight up. Bin Laden night, head Shopper suicide, bomber terrorists, and their absolute chauvinists and hate. Shh, hate Christians, hate druze and hate Kurds and enslave them and murder them.

And so and they're so crazy. I mean, and just bloody and violent and ridiculous that they don't even have their head together to focus on Assad's forces. Now, what the hell are they doing there? Headed out east to tangle with, you know, Kurds who are fighting Isis and these are not Isis Guys. These are the bin Laden night. The the ones who stay loyal to zawahiri. This is like the he al-nusra front guys who were Rivals with Isis.

And so here America, and the Kurds are helping taking care of Isis for them, and they attack them anyway, and like, they don't have enough on their plate, trying to take on the Assad government and its Syrian Arab Army. But anyway, so there, Up balls and that's what they do.

They attack these curds. And so then you have the US military embedded with these curds and supporting them with their power, and they get into, you know, a pretty severe Skirmish or two on the ground there in eastern Syria before the dod side wins in the CIA side has to withdraw and you know, try to go and fight another day. And, you know, someone at the time, remind me there's a clip from Woody Allen movie, which I don't think I've ever seen a Woody Allen. A movie.

Honestly, what is a clip from a Woody Allen movie from like, 1972 or something? And they're invading somewhere in South America and they're just like GIS or like, you know, low rank and listed gi's on a plane. And the guy says, well, yeah, we're going down to invade Aaron, which side are We Takin? And the sergeant said, we're

taking both sides to see. I was to make sure this time, you know, so they're going to be fighting each other when they arrive on the ground there, you know, and that's American foreign policy in a nutshell, man. It's like a Bill Hicks kid, or Now, what Amir?

I want to get back to Russia. Sorry. I am skipping around here on you. But is very critical of us. Intervention in the Russia, Ukraine situation. We have the National Endowment for democracy. We have John McCain and Joe Biden, openly speaking to the people of Ukraine, saying we support your yada, yada yada fill in the blank. What is the u.s. Involvement in Ukraine, man?

It's so much. So, So I'll go back to 2004 and the orange Revolution there you had pro-russian leaning president named Yanukovych and they held an election and I don't know exactly how he got poisoned, but they made up this ridiculous lie that he'd been poisoned by the FSB. I mean, you think if the Russian FSB tries to kill you, they can do it or not. I mean, what the hell is this?

Crap? Sky. I somehow survived the poisoning and the only thing that happened was got these crazy welts all over his face. But they created around that narrative, the orange Revolution and it's the color-coded revolutions. Where when you lose an election, you just refuse to concede, you know, this is America exporting democracy.

You don't win some and lose. Some when the pro-american side loses, you refuse to accept it and you stay out there and your Riot until they come up with some kind of power sharing where they can either get. Away with a real coup or, you know, some kind of diminishing of the power of the regime that they're opposed to here and they do it over and over and over again. They've done this over and over again, in starting in Serbia against milosevic in two thousand. A year.

After the Kosovo War, then they did in 2002 and Georgia. They did Ukraine in 2004. They did Tajikistan of all places in 2005. They also tried the cedar revolution in Lebanon, in 2005, the I'm revolution in Belarus in 2005. We have one of those color-coded revolutions going on there, right now. They're calling it. The slipper Revolution. That's not a color, but like bedroom slippers somehow.

I don't know. But they always have this gimmick behind it for people to Rally around and they always got a ton of any D money and NGO money, you know, like sub CIA type. I forgot who said that. Quote, it's from the Reagan years. It's an official quote from one of these guys saying that we have the ne D, do what the CIA used to do in overthrowing. It's and here's how we do it. There's no secret about it. That's the official thing. That's what the NAD is.

The regime change the less than violent regime change operations of the CIA essentially. And so then they pulled the same stunt again under Obama in Ukraine, in 2014. And so, how they set it up was like this. They had Yanukovych the same guy who they thwarted and overthrew back in 2004. He got elected again in 2010 and what it was was he was supposed to make a trade deal with the

European Union and the west. And so, you know, they'd already France and Germany had already told Bush, absolutely not. When it came to Bringing Ukraine into NATO. That's just not going to happen, but we can interview, we can integrate them into the Ian Union step-by-step anyway, and then maybe one day we'll work toward, you know, NATO and the

future, something like that. So they invite Yanukovych to this, you know, European Union trade deal signing and then I'm not sure if this was quite deliberate or not for the effect that they got out of it. I suspect that it was but maybe they didn't care either way, but what they did was they added all these new conditions to very important one. And the first one was that if you sign this deal with the European Union, then you may not also sign one with Russia.

And if you do, then you're trade deal with the European Union will then be cancelled. So you have to choose us or them. You can't have an open trade deal with both and then the second thing was you're going to have to take I think it was 15 billion dollars worth of IMF loans that we know you can't pay back so that we can confiscate all your resources in the Go Western, gangster, fashion.

And so Yanukovych said, what? Jeez, I feel like a bride who showed up at my wedding to be greeted with a prenuptial agreement and you kind of took the romance out of the whole thing here. And I'm not sure I want to get hit. So I think I'm going home and he turned around, he went home, which I suspect was the point of

the thing again, like ramble. Ye give him some poison pill that he can't possibly accept so that he rejects it, and then that became the pretext for the Americans to start backing a street Revolution beginning in the fall of 2013 and into January and February 2014. And Carl gershman who is ahead of the any D wrote an essay in the Washington Post. I think in October saying that, you know, Ukraine is next.

We're getting what we want and it ends with e flat, Amir Putin doesn't like it. He might find himself on the receiving end of one of these revolutions here in Moscow, in the near future. I swear it says that bank. Rita Carl gershman October Washington Post, Ukraine, Russia, those you keywords. Real Brave talk from this guy. Go ahead. I was so another words. There is u.s. Involvement in Ukraine to make sure Ukraine. Does not have a strong relationship with Russia. In the same way.

They don't want Iran to have Assad in Syria. This is sort of a weakening an alliance. That's what the, any D and McCain and Biden are doing. That's right, but you also got a picture of the map in your Ahead here, right? Because it's all important. And you know what? I actually didn't understand this for a long time. I'm slightly embarrassed to say,

but I don't care. The geopolitics always thought that was just a pseudo smart guy, word for international politics, you know, but that's not what it is. It's really is tied, it Geo. There is not Geo like the Earth. It's Geo like geography. Like this is all about which way the pipeline goes in through this mountain pass and who has access Access to this port on this, see, that leads to that.

See, and all of these most important things about the shape of the geography and the Topography of the planet and the role that all of that plays in politics. So, what's so important about Crimea, I mean, while see, I blew that punch line, what's so important about Ukraine.

Well, first of all, their grain, they're known as the breadbasket of Europe and all of that, it can, you know, feed Europe with their rich soil, but also they Owned and past tense, the Crimean peninsula in the Black Sea and the Black Sea, of course, is the gate Russia's gateway to the Mediterranean Sea and it's their only year-round warm water Port. The rest of their ports are frozen over in the winter time, even in the Far East in Vladivostok.

They're all frozen over. This is their only deep water, warm water Port that they have, and it's Complicated situation here because when the Soviet Union broke up the Soviets, the Russians made a deal with the crimeans that you guys can keep control. I mean, apartment with ukrainians that you guys can keep control over the Crimean Peninsula, but you have to let us keep our Naval Base at sevastopol. And so that was the deal and that status quo had rained since the end of the Cold War.

No problem. Then America launches, essentially this street, put and well, see I'm getting ahead of myself in the narrative here. This is the point. This is we're back to motive here, which was your original question Americans, want to take Crimea away from Russia. They want to take Ukraine away from Russia. In the words of zbigniew Brzezinski Russia with Crimea and Ukraine under their influence is a global power. Without Crimea and their access to the Black Sea there, then

they are just a regional power. And so this is the difference between whether Russia is a country or a great nation and and we're in the position to make that difference. And I'm not sure if I ever told you this before, but for you and everybody else, you got to see this. You'll just love it. It's it's Gideon. Rose, who was the editor of Foreign Affairs magazine?

Asean, the Journal of the Council on Foreign Relations, and he's a guest on The Colbert Report back when it was funny, the satire show on the comedy channel. And I mean, they must have sent a press release. Like, hey, would you have this guy on? We want to do this? I don't know why they wanted to do that. But this is just Imperial hubris to find and get Ian Rose. Explains. The whole thing to Stephen Colbert's character here. Here's what we're doing. We're stealing away.

Russia's girlfriend. We're taking away Robin to their Batman, their best friend, their most important thing and we're doing it. While Putin is distracted by the Sochi Olympics, and his Security Services are also distracted by the Sochi Olympics. And we're going to try to get away with it. And the thing is, the question is, can we get away with it before? Putin has a chance to react. But this is what it's all about.

Is removing Ukraine from Russia's influence and bringing it into the American Empire. Now, it's worth pointing out that Ukraine. As Pat Buchanan, once wrote, Ukraine is east of what we ever used to call Eastern Europe. I mean, this is Russia's sphere of influence, like it or not. I mean, we are talking three countries east of Austria here

or something. And this is just to think that this I cannot absolutely can not be under, Russia's sphere of influence, but absolutely must be under the sphere of influence of the middle part of North. America is completely nuts. Right? And now, the only reason that Crimea belonged to Ukraine is because, well, first of all Crimea belong to Russia, ever since the 1780s when America was under the Articles of Confederation was when Catherine, the Great stole it from the Turks, I guess the

Russians beat them. And paid them like the Mexican Cession or something like that, you know, and took Crimea.

And so it had been a Russian Province taken from the Turkish Empire way back in the 1780s and Russia owned it all along until after Stalin died Khrushchev. If they say drunkenly, I don't know if that makes a difference but Khrushchev gave by edict gave Crimea to Ukraine and Has he was Ukrainian and he needed to shore up support in the Ukrainian Communist party, for his rise to power after the death of Stalin.

And so this was his trade off. Now, you tell me how sacred is it to you, the Edict of the General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, or do you give a damn what he says and whether it must go or not and so in reality Regardless of how kind of, you know, strange those circumstances were, when the Soviet Union broke up, the Russians didn't say. All right now, give us back Crimea. They said, look, you guys can keep it but just respect our autonomy, treat them, right?

And let us keep our Naval base and that status quo reigned from, you know, for 30 years, when the end of the Cold War until 2014. And then there was a violent Street, put led by Nazi groups like this. Faux Bois de T, which is foreboding means truth, but they used to be known as the social nationalists, get it and the right sector and the azov Battalion, and these different groups who are bunch of Hitler, loved and Nazis who worship stepan Bandera is their big national hero.

When he served Hitler in the galatian SS enforcing the Holocaust against poles and Jews. There was one of the worst war. Criminals of the entire second world war is hailed as their hero and leader. And these are the very far right Wingers who overthrew the government for the us there. And then it's not the case that they created a Nazi regime after that.

They just created, you know, a pseudo democracy that's chock-full of Nazis and including, and especially in their military forces, but one of these Nazis Andre Peru be was the Speaker of the House for like six years after this. So people who say, oh, come on, the Nazis might have been involved in the street porch, but they didn't win any power

here. Yeah, that's not You know, their particular parties didn't, but that's because the leaders of those parties ran under other parties names and did not get elected as from there were parties didn't do well, but the actual people did in many cases and they still have a lot of power there. But then right after the coup, three former Ukrainian presidents wrote a letter. Insisting that. Now we must kick the Russians out of the sevastopol naval base.

Now is our chance to do it and And that was when Putin responded, in fact, there have been a murder of some crimeans in a bus. That have been seized by some Nazis and that was, you know, part of the run-up. And then the other thing was that like, a First Act of the new Parliament was to Outlaw Russian.

As an official language, even though Russian isn't is literally the only language of about half the population of the country, which is a legacy of the Communist days, but it is what it is. These people don't even know Ukrainian. Their Russian speakers is almost divided in half nationally. But anyway, so this was all you know agitation, then the three presidents say now is the time to kick Russia out of sevastopol. That was the final straw and at that point Putin and look this

isn't just to take his side. I Hate Everyone is always on everybody's side. I don't have any sides. This is just the truth against the lies. That's it. Okay, the Russians tore their Insignia off and essentially they walked out of their Naval base and they just sees the whole Peninsula.

They didn't kill anyone. Keith not Single one person, the only shots that were fired were fired in the air and you can find the Clipper at least you used to be able to find the clip on the internet of the Russian soldiers. Tell us some crimeans. Bang bang. You boys need to turn around now and get the hell out of here. And they say, you know what, that's exactly what we're doing, and they turn around and leave, and that's it.

So, it was what they call in French, a coup de main which is like Hitler annexing Austria, right? He just rolls right in and says, this belongs, to me now done. And that was what they did and of course not to make the Hitler comparison. I'm just talking about what it means to seize a place without real violence.

And the reality is that the population of Crimea is like, 80 something percent or ninety, something percent Christian in Russian, and then there's like a 10% attach our minority, the turkic minority and then, you know, those numbers on your second because there's another five or ten percent or ukrainians to so, but right around there.

Super majority are ethnic Russians and then the minority are ethnic ukrainians or tat ours, but you know, if and I'm not a statist, but if they have if anybody has a right to secede from one nation and join another nation that people of Crimea in their situation absolutely did and they held a referendum where they ratified all of these results and it's been checked by independent polling monitors and all of that as being essentially

legitimate referendum results. And so that Was the horrible atrocity of the Russian seizure of Crimea, but then the pro-russian factions in the Eastern donbas region, right? On the Russian border there in Donetsk and luhansk. They said well, you know, what, if you guys can occupy all these buildings and refuse to respect the authority of the elected, president of the country. Well, we can sure as hell

occupy. All the government buildings in our region and refuse to respect the authority of your Nazi back coup, d'etat Junta, screw you and then what are the Nazi? Back coup, d'etat Junta do. They declared a war on terrorism and invaded the East and killed something like 10,000 people or more in a war throughout 2014 and 15 and various stages of fighting in the time since then. And and so what you know going back to Gideon Rose, you can't run off with Ukraine.

You're talking about a country that stuck to the ground. It's not going anywhere and where is it? It still right where it was adjacent to Russia. And No, as Ray McGovern likes to point out there's and thank you to Chelsea Manning for liberating this document. There's a state department document. That's by. I think it's Nicholas Burns.

I forget exactly it's one of these State Department goons, and he's riding home from Russia and the cable is called, yet means net and it's about the American ambassadors. Visit with Sergey lavrov, the Russian foreign minister. And Sergei lavrov says listen, let me tell you something on this is before the coup. This is yours before the coup. This would have been, you know, early Obama years his.

Let me tell you something. You're not bringing Ukraine into NATO and you can just forget it right now and let me just tell you a thing that I think you already know. The Russian military could be in Kiev in two weeks, probably less. Do you want to try me yet? Means yet, and that was it. He saying if you try to bring Ukraine into NATO, we will invade and Conquer it. And then what are you going to do?

And now, which is exactly what Barack Obama's government or job, Joe, Biden, or George Bush, or Donald Trump's government would tell the Russians about overthrowing the government in Canada, and installing a pro, you know, a Hitler loving pro-russian regime there and try to bring them into the Russian Federation. I'll tell you what, we will invade and Conquer Canada and kick every pro-russian government agent out of power. And maybe off the continent. Before we let you get away with that.

Can you imagine the Americans letting that happen? The Russians do a coup in Mexico? They use a bunch of Hitler loved and Nazis to do it to put a pro Russian regime in power and then create an official military alliance with them. And put the Russian military in Mexico. We would nuke Moscow and Mexico City. Both first and we all know it, but then we expect the Russians to just sit there and take it.

And I would say, you know what? But Sergei lavrov, that guy's not a joke, we e says yet, means yet. We should just take that at face value and ask ourselves. How do we allow our politicians to take risks like this in any sense? How is anything? I just said, how is it even possible that it could be true? That this is the way we do our foreign policy in Far Eastern Europe. It's just nuts. Exactly. Yeah, I can't even build a porch on my own property without the government getting involved.

It's not they're constantly trying to intervene everywhere else, but for other people they have the highest standards that come out of nowhere. My final question is, I want to

get I really wanted time to go by. Before I asked you this one. What is the Genesis of Russia gate? What is the biggest claim that they have? Or I'm sorry. The biggest claim is Vlad. Damir Putin, either conspired or had Trump as a, as a dupe to enter the election, the Russian intelligence manipulated social media and even hack some voting machines in order to turn the tide from Hillary to Donald Trump so he could use them as a dupe. Is there anything to Russia gate and the molar report?

That's of importance. Well, first of all, the entire plot was faked. The whole thing was a lie. The plot was to make you think that it might be true. Was the only actual conspiracy involved in the entire thing. The mullah report itself. Absolutely is important because that's where he admits it. The whole thing's fake. They got nothing and so their major parts of this in different facets of it. Okay.

So one part of it is the hacking and the leaking of the DNC emails to WikiLeaks. Then there is the question of page and Papadopoulos, sessions and Flynn and Donald Trump jr. And different members of The Campaign and they're supposed treasonous relations with the Russians.

Then there's the accusation that Russian intelligence, hijacked, Facebook and Twitter and bought all these ads to so Division and create all these protest movements and to create the black lives matter movement because, you know, those people were perfectly happy with their station in life before the Russians came and lied to them and made them think that getting killed by cops suck and stuff like that. And every bit of it, is a lie. Oh and then you mentioned the

hacking of the voting machines. That's a lot of people thought they heard but that was actually not even the claim. The claim was only that they had had and and get this the claim comes from the Department of Homeland Security. Okay, in other words, the FBI didn't bother with this crap. You know, this DHS is like the bastard child worth less than the ATF. I mean, these guys are the absolute dregs of the federal government. They don't No, nothing. That ain't a lie, some garbage.

But anyway, all they said was that Russian Bots, right? Like computers from we think Russian IP addresses scanned, our servers, which actually, that's not anything right? That's all web. Bots. Do all day is scans servers. And for God's sake. The fact that a server is in Russia, doesn't mean a damned thing and you know, it and I know it and these stupid Fires know it it doesn't mean anything. It means nothing. Let me tell you.

Keith. There was no effort by Russia to intervene in the American election of 2016 at all. It never happened and there's no proof that any of it ever happened. You look at the hacking of the DNC. Robert Mueller says, well, you know, we think they did it but he has an indictment that has no proof and no discussion of how they did it. Just a bunch of claims and assertions and then in the

mullah report, he admits that. Well, even though we think the Russians are the ones who got these emails. We have no chain of custody for how they deliver these emails to WikiLeaks for Julian Assange to post. Oh, and by the way, we didn't bother interview and Julian Assange, because we don't want to know what he has to say about this. He's sworn over and over that the Russians didn't have a damn thing to do with it.

And I've interviewed Craig Murray who was a great friend of Julian Assange and supporter of his, the former Russian, ambassador to his Pakistan. Who exposed torture there and he told me on my show that he knows who hacked the DNC, and it wasn't any foreign government. It was a Democrat and he did not say it was Seth rich, but he said it was a Democrat from the DNC who is angered about what was going on by the corruption

and leak the stuff. And that he has met this person and has this person has no conceivable tie to Russian intelligence in any way. Whatsoever is where that stuff comes from. And is there any reason to believe that the Russians were behind that hack? No. Back, there's the only so-called evidence that they did in fact leads exactly the opposite. Way that oh look a bunch of Cyrillic letters and a reference to iron Felix. The founder of the nkvd is

hidden in the metadata in here. And Matt Taibbi says that's like finding a hidden reference to Allen Dulles in the stuxnet code. I think it's not gonna do that. It doesn't make any sense iron. This was the founder of the nkvd, you know, 100 years ago and just this is obviously a Telltale footprint that was left there by someone framing. The Russians is obviously the more likely explanation of even that and that's just step one. Then you have Papadopoulos.

Well, the guy who told Papadopoulos that the Russians have some emails from Hillary. He was British spook. He's Maltese guy named Miss. Foote was working for the British and clearly he was not working for the Russians had no. Tired of the Russians didn't have any scuttlebutt from the Russians. That he's the one who put it in Papadopoulos. Azir, that the Russians have some stuff from Hillary. And then they got this Australian to claim that Papadopoulos told him that.

Yeah, the Russians have some stuff on Hillary. But then now we know far after the fact that the FBI's internal memos to each other said, this is all Bs. This guy doesn't have any ties to the Russians and any access to any Russian information and they actually refused to even

use Papadopoulos as a pretext. For the rest of their investigation the entire time but they didn't tell you that they spent three years pretending that Papadopoulos had been suborned by the Russians and was part of the way that they were controlling Donald Trump. Same thing with Paul manafort. Paul manafort. Guess what he worked for Yanukovych.

The Russian leading president Russian leaning president of Ukraine that America overthrew in 2014, but he was clearly CIA and his job while not clearly CIA. But he was At least it very much. Looks like he was CIA and was representing America's interest. He was trying to get Yanukovych to sign the deal with the EU, not to turn toward Russia. He was trying to get the guy to serve America's interests there. That's what a traitor manafort is, and then they go manafort, gave a polling data.

Do this guy clinic will kill em, Nick work for the state department, Clinic worked for John McCain's International Republican, Institute for 20. Ears. He wasn't FSB. He wasn't a Russian intelligence agent. He worked for the Americans. Then there's Mike Flynn. No, he did not sleep with the Russian spy lady at Cambridge. In 2014. That was a made-up Lie by liars. And no, he did not commit treason on the phone with kislyi act, the Russian Ambassador.

In fact, only the closest he came to committing treason. There was asking Kinsley act to veto a UN resolution against Israel on behalf of Israel. And what was he doing? He was asking the In a favor and the Russian told him. No. Is that sound like the Russian giving Mike Flynn is marching orders because he's a compromise spy of the Russian Federation for Christ's sake.

It's got is a three-star General and when they made the biggest deal in the world about how he went to this RT dinner in Moscow. Yeah. Well guess what? He was a three-star, General working for the DIA at the time. You don't think he went there on a mission for the DIA and that he didn't come back and debrief the DIA about every single thing. Thing he'd learned there. He's got his clearance, his security clearance over and over again. After that. He wasn't, you know, he got

fired. Now for treason with the Russians. He got fired because he was trying to stop Obama's trees. And with al-Qaeda in Syria. He was passing intelligence to Assad to use to kill. Al-Qaeda guys. Remember the military backs the SDF against al Qaeda. It's the CIA that back. Saketa. The military was against that will Flynn was Dia and He was giving the Germans until to give to Assad to kill Al-Qaeda guys with CIA assets.

Tough boohoo for you. And that was what he got fired for and for going on the mehdi Hassan show met his son, who's a horrible bastard. It must be said but who interviewed Mike Flynn and Mike Flynn, says absolutely as a willful decision to allow the rise of Isis to put pressure on Assad. No question about it. Explains all that people. Can Google that. That was what they hated about Flynn and he was soft on Russia. He wanted to focus on China, Ally with Russia.

In order to focus on hemming in China and that was a difference of doctrinal opinion there that they try to get him on but then look at they had to do, they had to pretend that he was violating the Logan act when he told calumniate. I mean, pardon me a kiss Lee, ack, the Russian Ambassador that hey Obama. Just put these new sanctions on you, but we're talking about December 16.

Okay? Obama put these sanctions on you, but don't do Tit for Tat and and do anything back because we're about to take power in another six weeks here. And we want to strike a new note and get along. So don't do anything. Stupid. In fact, what did Putin do after Obama kicked a bunch of Russians, out of the country and announce these new sanctions, Putin invited, all the American Embassy staff to a Christmas party and said, I don't want to fight. Let's not fight. Let's keep it, cool, taking

Flynn's advice on that. Well, now look, man, the Logan act Keith says that you can't go and make a separate deal on behalf of the United States with Putin or any other foreign Sovereign government. Okay, or say like you were a CEO of an oil company. Paneer some you can't have your own separate trade. Deal that undercuts the USA's trade deal. That's what the Logan act says. It's never been enforced ever. Not a 200 years ever. It's a dead letter. It is not law and it sure.

As hell does not apply to the designated national security advisor of the president elect of the United States of America. This is not in the summer of 2016. Teen. This is in the last month's, this is after the election. This is after the electoral college has voted. Donald Trump, is the president elect. Mike Flynn, three-star, General, former Chief of Dia by all accounts. An American Patriot is his elbow. He is a kook and horrible on Iran and all kinds of other

things. But anyway, he tried to blame Benghazi on Iran. That's what a nut. He is baby way. They pretended that he was guilty of this horrible felony, as this pretext to investigate him. And then when the one FBI office wanted to drop. And so there's really nothing here, the other FBI office and know, we want to continue it. We want to do it more. And so, that was when they set up the kill shot and they had David Ignatius, right?

A essay in the Washington Post saying, ooh, Mike Flynn was caught red-handed. On this call with the Russian Ambassador and then they use that article that they put in the post as a pretext to interview him again and then try to accuse him of making false statements.

And we know now that they rehearse, it's in all the documents that have been released way late in the game that they rehearsed and practiced over and over again how to fool him into thinking that we're just friends having a conversation here and to give him, no clue whatsoever. That this is an interrogation that we're trying to trap him. And that later were going to say that, Lied to us. And then, even in the documents they wrote he didn't lie to us.

He told the truth the whole time and it was fine. And then they just God damned lied and themselves and said that he lied to them and charged him in line to them. And then every liberal Keith Moon. Oh, yeah. Well, he plead guilty. Yes. So what? So two innocent people all damn day? Why don't you wake up? And in this case, we know how they extorted him. They threatened to put his son in prison and he said, you better plead guilty.

Not just will give you life, will put your son in the Pain, if you don't plead guilty and that was how they got him to plead guilty to something. He was innocent of you see how that works, you know, right-wingers and Libertarians who are skeptical of these black lives matter. People. They can do that to a three-star General. They can railroad a three-star General. They can sure as hell do it to the poorest. Blackest members of your

community. Okay. But anyway, Jeff sessions, u.s. Senator. Oh he met with Kingsley act. He had these conversations with kazak. Kazakh is the ambassador and where did he meet him? He met him in his Senate Office in front of his staff. Who's a staff of they're all retired army officers. Yeah. I'm sure these guys all committed high treason with the Russian Ambassador together. It's absolutely impossible on

its face right. Then he should Okay, hands with a matter of speech, and it's on tape. Hi, how you doing? Yes, I'm more high treason there, and they just blew all of that up. Then you have the, the Trump Tower meeting, where the people who went there. They enticed Trump jr. By saying, hey, we have some secret Intelligence on Hillary and he went there, but they didn't have anything. And they weren't Intelligence Officers and they had no intelligence officer connections.

They had nothing and the whole meeting was a completely stupid bus. And then guess what? It turns out that the guy Who set up steel to write the phony, steel dossier, accusing Donald Trump of all these things and being compromised with the Russians and accusing page, and all these things blend Simpson. He was the one who sent the lady to lie to these guys that she had some dirt on Hillary in the first place. The whole thing was a setup.

The Trump Tower meeting itself was a setup, even though it never went anywhere, didn't mean anything. Anyway, and then you have the steel dossier that accused Trump of being compromised, since 2013, when the Russians secretly taped him hiring hookers. EP on a bed that Obama had slept in when he was there, which is a total hoax. We know that every single bit of the steel report, was a lie. Everything that's not open everything in them.

That's true, was open source, reported in the newspapers before they put it in there. And everything else in there is not true. Every single other thing in there was not true and it said that the Trump team led by his lawyer had worked with the Russians on setting up all the Facebook ad Intervention, which it turned out in amounted to nothing you talk about 10,000. In a sea of literally, a trillion, political Facebook ads, during that era, and where

the troll farm that was doing. It had no real connections to Russian intelligence. There's every reasonably fact, most of the ads, a vast majority ads happen after the election. It was all just clickbait. They'll just crack the girl over there. Trying to destabilize the society. That's your default answer because you can't say they were trying to support Trump because it was after the election. And he can't say they're trying to support Trump because they had a bunch of pro-hillary

stuff, too. To and can't say they were trying to support Trump because a lot of this stuff had nothing to do with politics at all. It was just click bait. It's a troll Farm. That's all it is. Same thing for the whole epidemic of fake news. Oh, the Russian fake news. No, it was Macedonian fake news. It was one town in Macedonia, and there are some Americans doing this to, but the big one was a town of Macedonia were all these teenagers figured out that was some cheap HTML.

You can create a fake American newspaper and then give them a headline like Pope endorses Trump. And 10,000 stupid old baby boomers. Will click on the Facebook link to your fake news, and you make a bunch of money. And that was, it had nothing to do with Russian intelligence whatsoever. Whole thing was completely fake. And so, none of the steel report was true. None of the hacking of the DNC stuff has ever been proved and is probably not true at all.

None of the Trump campaigns relations, and meetings and talking with the Russians, even though negotiations over the Trump Tower, his lawyer is what he did. He went to creme. Lynn dot-gov or whatever it is and filled out their web form email. Hey, can I talk with somebody about this? Trump Tower deal, please and then they answered it back. No, and how was it and the whole mother report explains all this that they are batting zero. It's just like the case for war against Iraq. In 2002.

They got 15 major points. All of them are lies. None of it adds up 15 times. 0 is 0. It's the same thing here with Russia gate. There is nothing to it there. Never was. The whole thing's a damn lie. Well, Scott, thank you so much for your time. I recommend everyone. Check out Fool's errand, time to end the war in Afghanistan. One of the best cases for blowback using excellent sources

and chapter one. I just want to finish my final quote here on the Russia Gate scandal, we had about 70 million people watching the third presidential debate in 2016 where Hillary Clinton said 17 intelligence agencies have all confirmed, Russia hacked. Our emails. However, a year later June 29th. 2017. Here is the New York Times a White House.

Memo article on Monday. About President Trump's deflections and denials about Russia, referred to in correctly to the source of an intelligence assessment. That said, Russia orchestrated hacking attacks, during last year's presidential election. The assessment was made by for intelligence agencies, the office of Director of National Intelligence. The Central Intelligence Agency, the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the National Security. Matias agency.

The assessment was not approved by all 17 organizations in the intelligence Community. They throw a lie at you. Make it really big quietly along time. Later. They tell you sorry about that. That wasn't true. Thank you for watching Keith, and I don't tread on anyone, check out Fool's errand, time to end the war in Afghanistan. Scott. Thank you so much for your time, sir. Thanks again, Keith great to talk to you about.