Welcome to Keith's night, don't tread on anyone any libertarian Institute podcast today. I am joined by Kristin Hawkins. She is the president of students for Life action and students for life. She is also the host of the explicitly pro-life podcast. Find are a Christian. Hawkins.com links will be in the description below Miss Hawkins. Thank you so much for your time. Thanks for having me today.
Key, of course, I saw so many of your videos on YouTube, so I I wanted to give you what I have found to be the top 10 most compelling pro choice questions. Now, before we get into that, you had a great question, where you would ask someone to explain what an abortion is. And it was interesting that this pro-choice Advocate was not able to Define it to which I said, well maybe I need to embrace some humility. Maybe I don't know what it is. Please tell us before we go
through the argument. So we're on the same page. What does it mean to have an abortion? Sure, well, there's different types of abortion depending on the development of the child, how old the child is in utero.
The most common type of abortion is committed in the first trimester and that type of abortion will either be used would be a D&C procedure, a dilation and curettage procedure suction abortion or an abortion pill would be used pills would be used to and the Pregnancy and end the life of the child didn't see seizure. Where a looped shape curette is inserted into the woman's vagina into the birth canal into the
uterus. And it is used to scrape the lining of the uterus, where the new organ, that is forming the, the child actually self directs. The placenta, and the child is attached to the uterine wall. And this removes the child from the uterine wall. And then the abortionist is able to just basically, you know, shove the pieces of the placenta and the child out section aspiration abortion, they use a
long shaped cannula. It's about 12 times more powerful than that, your household, vacuum cleaner suction. Same idea, it can be like goes up through the mother's birth canal into the uterus. And the child, and the placenta is just sucked out. The abortion pill with the chemical pill abortions, these are very dangerous abortions. This is something that the abortion industry has been really using covid as excuse to push through and with the help of the by Administration.
They've been able to take all the risk evaluation mitigation strategies away from these pills. This is something that Bill Clinton and his administration had assigned with the use of these pills because they have been linked to death in women. These are now the most And type of first trimester abortion. The first pill is taken supposed to be taken in the abortion clinic after the abortion is has confirmed pregnancy since December. That doesn't the case. They don't even have to confirm
that she's pregnant. They don't even have to confirm the location of the pregnancy to make sure she's not experiencing a life-threatening Atomic pregnancy. She can take the first pill at home. The first pill, starves a child. It stops progesterone. The hormone from getting to the child. Tool which allows the child to grow.
And then the second pill is taken a few days later that is a pill that basically starts the abortion and starts, the contractions from happens from the starts to contractions and over a period of days and weeks. She has the abortion at home and we call them toilet bowl abortions because she is advised by the abortion clinic to when she gets really heavy, cramping and bleeding. To go on the toilet bowl, not to
look and to keep flushing. So that's the first trimester second trimester abortions, rd&e dilation, and evacuation abortions. They also stay still have that correct, that Loop shaped device but what they first they do after softening the cervix they can go into the cervix with the stone for clamp and this clamp goes in and grabs pieces of the child, the child is in breech position. Position. So the feet are grabbed first, so I'll leg a leg arm and arm, then the the trunk.
So the midsection of a child and the abortionist device to grasp the feet, apart twist and Pull, and then finally, the head will be the last part and so that is actually how the child is literally dismembered in these types of abortions.
And you don't have to believe me, you can go to National Abortion Federation. Up until I know a couple years ago at the last time I was on their website, they actually spelled out how to commit these abortions right on their website after that after these you know what, they think, all the parts are pulled out of the mother. The child is dismembered.
They insert the curette scrape, the lining of the uterus and the goal is to make sure they get the placenta and then the other parts of the child to reduce the risk of sepsis or infection. That's a second trimester abortion. The third trimester abortions, do happen. Some people it's funny on campuses will like to argue with me the third trimester abortions, don't happen. But I literally know the people who do them, I can tell you where their abortion facilities are.
You can go to Google and type in 9 months or eight months abortion and you will find dr. William Hearn and folder. There's a Clinic Southwest women's in Albuquerque. New Mexico. There's There's dr. Carhart, who's outside of Omaha and outside of Washington, d.c. these abortions. The most common type of abortion for a third trimester now is we call them hardtack abortions using ultrasound guided technology.
The abortionist will try to get as close to the hardest possible and they have a syringe long needle, very similar to the needle to use an amniocentesis and they will inject Potassium chloride or drug called digoxin into the child. The goal of which is to produce a cardiac arrest, a heart attack that the child. After that is done. They will insert seaweed sticks live area into a woman's vagina to soften her uterus. I'm sorry.
Her birth canal and her cervix, and she will go back to the abortion facility, two to three days after. And then, The thought being that her cervix is ripe and then they can just kind of pull the child out. She will deliver a dead child. That is the most common today version of how they commit. A third trimester abortion. Let's get into the top 10 pro-choice claims. Here, her body. Her choice. A woman is an autonomous being and bodily. Autonomy is a basic human, right?
A fetus. Which is Only dependent on the mother for sustenance has yet to acquire bodily autonomy. As it cannot self-govern due to this dependence. A fetus is not its own being her body, her choice. What do you say? It's always funny how people who constantly demand that we follow the science or that we don't follow the science but yet when it comes to this actual argument, literally deny the science literally, deny that a child is, in fact, it's Unique, whole human being that has its
own body. And actually, you could argue has its own Autonomy for their body. Yes. The child's body is located inside of her body but he or she has her own bodily autonomy. This is a medical fact that the child is actually a separate. Individual is separate human being with his or her own sex, his or her own DNA, his, or her own blood type.
You know, when I was pregnant with my children with my Boys, I suddenly did not become a man, Even though inside of my room, there were growing male genitalia that my body didn't change my child's body was developing into a male body, this doesn't work at all. And when he often you hear this argument from those who advocate for abortion, they're using it simply to say a woman can do. Anything she wants with her body, which actually is not true.
We don't actually accept that across our country as well. You know, my children have some, you know, life-threatening genetic illnesses. You cannot go into a pulmonary Ward, a children's hospital and start smoking and say, well, it's my body, my choice. No. Because when you start taking actions, if your body that threatened the lives of other bodies, the government has said, Yeah, yeah we can stop you from doing that.
Also this idea that the fetus can't self gutter govern doesn't actually hold a weight unless you're willing to accept that. Infanticide should also be legal because the moment he or she emerges from the birth canal. Do you think the fetus now the infant can now self-govern, what has changed? All that has changed in on. Child is their location that, that little boy, or girl is still completely dependent on
their mother for survival. And the mother would be held at that point criminally liable for a child's death. If she neglects the responsibilities towards caring for her child or fails to place her child with an adoptive family or utilizes Safe Haven laws which allow her to freely Lee, give her child to State authorities. No questions asked. Pro-choice claim number two. What we're dealing with is mostly first, trimester abortions in which this child you.
Speak of is really just a microscopic clump of cells, not a living breathing. Human being with thoughts, emotions, goals and desires. There for an abortion is not killing a person. Mmm, being human is the only criteria that makes sense for you having the right. Life protected and adjust society and it becomes very much a slippery slope. When you start saying you have to be human, plus you have to be a human being and have this quality or this functional ability.
When you start saying that you start eliminating other groups of human beings who have already been born and you don't have to look very far back in the history of our world even in the history of Our nation to see one, it wasn't enough just to be a human being, but if you are a human being and your skin was darker than others somehow that justified, their people being allowed to own you or in history when we look back to the disabled saying if well you're a human but your IQ level Falls
below this number therefore that gives the state the right. To do a hysterectomy on you without you or your parents consent so you can never procreate. We have all uniformly as a society said, those things were wrong and we should never go back to that those moments.
But that's exactly what we do when it comes to the preborn fundamentally at the moment of conception, when the egg from the mother and the sperm from the father, unite to those are two parts and then Those two parts, unite a whole unique human being comes into existence. That's never existed before and will never exist. Again, with a wholly unique, DNA code. That is the moment that human life begins.
Its any moment when your human life began and to start saying, well, you have to be able to breathe or you have to be able to experience a certain emotion, or you have to be able to have certain thoughts. That's not much different from saying you have to have a certain skin color or a certain sexual orientation or certain level liability or an IQ. The preborn child is a human being is a member of our species. That's really, the only box that
needs to be checked. Forcing a child into the world to unwanted parents will lead to mass misery and much more crime than what otherwise exist because parents aren't there to properly rear the Old. The solution to suffering has never been to eliminate the potential sufferer it's to mitigate the suffering. I would say a society where it's simply a status quo to kill someone who we deem might suffer or who are data or stats might say.
Or might indicate that my read a criminal Enterprise at one point my end up in jail. I think that's going to lead to a more miserable society as a whole. And I think that gets once again into a very slippery slope. And I think this is really, this is B, this is framed a lot as compassion that we are so compassionate as a society that we have decided who is going to suffer and therefore we are just going to Snuff them out of existence.
Distance before they're born. I think this is a really veiled way of abdicating responsibility and it's really quite frankly laziness to say we're just going to absolve ourselves of the responsibility to seek social justice with some with a family, or a woman or child. We're going to absolve ourselves responsibility to fix this problem by just killing you. And Nothing you out of existence. Mandating that a woman needs to be a mother if she doesn't want
to is equivalent to enslaving. Her slavery is a moral. There for forcing a woman to have a baby and perform at least 18 years of labor for the child is akin to forced labor and slavery. Sorry I'm going to try not to
laugh at you. Okay, so the this is really interesting because unless you're lecture talking about cases of sexual assault which one percent of all abortions are committed because of sexual assault or incest or because the life of the mother as at stake, which I always find to be, you know, interesting because they always bring me this, these cases up. Justifying their extremist views for a hundred percent of all abortions, but I've never found
anyone to say. Yes, I'm just a favor of abortion, just these terrible circumstances but everything else, I will work with you to ban abortion. No, one ever says that the leftist uses these terrible circumstances, these extreme circumstances to justify a hundred percent of all abortions. And so we hear this female slavery.
Are you it sometimes. But unless you're talking about sexual assault, let you talk thing about incest, you're talking about a woman who has engaged in a behavior that the natural biological consequences are the creation of a unique old human being. I talked a lot about taking responsibility on campuses that, you know. No one in the pro-life movement, you know, ever argues or advocates for limiting, how many people you can have sex with or
what type of sex you can have. Our argument is that if you engage and heterosexual sex that you acknowledge your engaging in a behavior that has consequences and one of those consequences can be the creation of a unique, whole living human being.
And I think that's, that's a really important point there, there's also important point that no pro-life or is advocating that a woman before stew parent her Child every single state has a safe haven law that which allows a mother to surrender her child within a certain time period after birth that time period varies from state to state can be 48 Hours, 72 hours, you were longer with no questions asked, no criminal repercussions. If she doesn't want to utilize a
stay safe haven law. She also has a option of creating a closed adoption plan. Where a child is adopted into a family. And she will never ever be, can be in contact with that child or the child's family. Again, she can also make an open adoption plan where she places a child with a family of her choice and can actually remain active and her baby's life based on conditions that she sets.
Aside II, think that that the that is just an argument that is used to basically get attention and it sir, Only doesn't work when it comes to parents of children who are older than toddlers. Either, you know, if I decide that two years old that, my child is too much of a burden. I got a new promotion at work. I really just can't handle being a parent of a toddler anymore. No one would say. I was justified and drowning my toddler in the bathtub. Everyone would say that was murder.
I could argue that. Forced to be a parent even though at 2 years old. I decided no more. But the state and our are just society. Would say, no, you accepted that responsibility and part of responsibility of being a parent is not killing your child. Abortion will exist either way whether it's legal or illegal.
If it's illegal will have back alleys and coat hangers and very unsafe for both the baby and the woman, but if abortions legal, it will be safe legal and we're actually they've dropped the rare now that it's been 60 million. So actually, it will be much safer for the woman, both mentally and the child. It'll be quick and over there for abortion should be legal. Yeah. I mean at first I'd say this logic is very inconsistent.
I don't see the abortion Lobby calling for rape or murder or bank robbery to be decriminalized even though it would be more convenient and it would spare the lives of the perpetrators. The whole point of laws is to protect the victim who could otherwise you know who those otherwise would violate them. You know bank robbery is a High-risk Perfection, if you choose to be a bank robber.
But no one says well we need to make it legal so bank robbers, don't get killed I would go back to also your myth that legal abortion means safe, abortions or that by making abortion illegal. The, the the argument we often hear is that tens of thousands of women will die every year from illegal abortions. We know, From dr.
Bernard Nathanson, who was a co-founder of Nay real pro-choice America, who was an abortionist committing illegal abortions, in New York state and then late 1960s, New York was one of the first states to legalize abortion but that is just a myth that he actually admitted later in life in the 80s which he became pro-life that they made up the myth.
Attend that tens of thousands of women were dying from illegal abortions but you do have to trust in our Nathanson because he became pro-life go to Christopher teach Christopher Keats was planned parenthood's. Very own award-winning, he won their highest honor the Margaret Sanger of war. The the award named after the eugenicist, who found a Planned Parenthood in 1974 for his statistics research.
Christopher teats research, the death rate of women who were seeking legal and illegal abortions in the years before. And after Roe versus Wade was handed down by seven men in 1973 and his estimation in 1965 the number of women. And who died from legal and illegal abortions was under 1000 women. You have Mary Calderon planned parenthood's own medical director.
In the 1950s, who came out to write that her estimation ninety percent of abortions were being committed by physicians, who she called in good standing, and their Community. Meaning, you know, they were Disturbed, Your Family. Doctor, Who did abortions on the side for his side Hustle, but didn't advertise it. And both, she and teats wrote In
the late 40s and 50s. That, you know, the threat for women dying from abortions, was actually very low because of the invention of penicillin antibiotics, because the highest risks of two women, especially before Altra sounds was infection or sepsis Final question. Thank you so much for being generous with your time, Miss Hawkins. If a woman is raped, let's say well, this is about one percent of abortions.
Okay. Well then we could still say this is a lot of potential suffering and this poor woman. Now, sits for months on end with this rapists, baby in her stomach who she's now giving birth to this is one of the worst case scenario. What if a woman is raped then is abortion morally Justified. Hmm rapist, a horrific crime and rapists should be found and they should be punished to the fullest extent of the law if she is raped. She's going to need two things, support and Justice support.
She's going to need in every way. Emotional physical, psychological because rape is a horrific trauma. It's one. I want to wish on my worst enemy. It's a crime to violate a woman's body. And also it's a crime to make her pregnant without her consent and the pro-life movement does stand ready to support women who
survived sexual assault. If you research the pro-life movement, you know, we have more than 3000 pregnancies, help centers of already in existence, have been supported and staying in our communities for nearly 50 years. Abortion, you know, simply gets rid of the evidence of the crime. It gets rid of the inconvenience of having to stand with her and support her for extended periods. And I actually find this to be a very lazy argument from the left that.
Oh, she's raped. You can just have an abortion having an abortion isn't going to end the trauma that she's endured, right? This is a lifelong pain that she will experience but it's almost like it's almost like a check, the box. Of all. Yeah, I help women. Who have been raped.
I've advocated for abortion, there you go done, I've done my social justice work, I have I've stood in solidarity with her, I think it's real easy to push another act of violence upon a woman who's just experienced an act of violence and because it's not going to make her forget about her rape, it's only going to have her, you know, pushing her into the hands of an abortionist who profits off of her despair.
So we financially profits from that it will only make her question and wonder for the rest of her life. Who her child could have been the other thing. She's going to need Beyond supporters Justice. She needs a perpetrator, be punished to the fullest extent of the law. You know, I find it ironic that the Supreme Court doesn't allow even rapist to receive the death penalty. Not even child rapist.
But yet the child is put to death for the crimes of his father that doesn't make logical sense. If you think about my father, my father would go out today and commit a rape or commit. An act of terrorism. There would be no one in our society on CNN, or MSNBC, or maybe MSNBC. But no, one in a logical society would argue that I or my sister should be put to death for my father's crimes. And when I bring that up, Tap on campuses students in the lately, go back to of course not.
No one would argue that. And I said well why, why can't you argue that? I should be put to death for my father's crimes and they was and they say well it's because you're a you're a living breathing human being and so that question always goes back to what is it, what is a child in that in the womb? Is it simply a clump of alien
cells? Or is it a member of our species, that deserves protection and thirdly, I would say That I would say, beyond the support and the Justice, I think it's a very regressive you to hold that because someone was conceived in rape, therefore, they're less valuable. I just had a good friend of mine Ryan, bomber on my podcast, the other week, he was conceived in rape. His mother courageously chose to place him with an adoptive family. He considers his mother who he's
never met doesn't know hero. No, but I think it's actually a regressive you because if you were just thinking about the abyss dealer day, like there was a period in time in our world that if you were conceived out of wedlock, you were a bastard. You couldn't inherit property. You couldn't do certain things. You can't be at certain places because you are who your father was and who your father was married to at the time, you were
conceived. This is exactly what we're literally seeing argued on MSNBC and CNN, right? Now, as we await the pending Dobbs decision, is that children conceived in rape, and by the way, there are thousands of the view is that like every single woman who gets who's rate suddenly gets pregnant, that's not true about five percent of women who are ready to survive, rape become pregnant half of those women actually choose life.
So there are literally tens of thousands of people walking around here in America today, who were conceived a rape who we're literally Doing their lives. Don't have any value. Excellent work, I definitely recommend people. Check out Kristen Hawkins.com, the podcast is explicitly pro-life you'll get excellent gems. Like a very confident college student coming up saying, why don't you focus on these women who are already in shelters and Miss Hawkins will just say, is
it all right? That the American Diabetes Association, doesn't focus on cancer and then the student will be humbled for the first time in their life. Coming up with the with something they haven't heard before, links will be in the description below. Thanks to everyone for watching the libertarian Institute Miss Hawkins. Thank you so much for your time. Thanks for having me. How are you today?