The Hidden Struggles of Motherhood with Jaclyn Tanner

Mom is like just, she's the core of the family. She literally is the trunk. She's the giver of life. And if we don't pour life into her and she's running on fumes, everybody's going to suffer. But if we can really give her like strong foundation and roots, those leaves and those branches are going to grow beautifully and everybody benefits. Welcome back to Keep It Good. I'm your host, Emily. I'm your host, Carly. So last week we kind of introduced a few of the untold sides

of motherhood. But, um, this week we're going to get a little bit deeper into that. And we have a special guest today, Jacqueline Tanner. Yes. We'd love to introduce her. She is the co -founder and COO of evolving tree therapy and welcome to the podcast. Jacqueline. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here and honored to be your first guest. Yay, this is a little bit of an experiment guys. Okay. So you're just going to bear with us everyone

included. So May is mental health awareness month, but also maternal mental health awareness month. So this is why it's really special to have Jacqueline with us today. She is an LPC. And like Emily said, she is the co -founder of evolving treat therapy. So let's dive in Jacqueline, I want to pick your brain. First off, like so many women struggle with that feeling immediately postpartum

of just feeling off. And a lot of times they think maybe this is just how it's supposed to be, you know, your first time mom, everything's different. So what are some common misconceptions about postpartum mental health? Yeah, I think you bring up a good point. A lot of us go into it and we have no idea. what to expect, or you only know the little bits and pieces people tell you. So I think initially our society does us a disservice by just not talking about this and

how common it is, how normal it is. And like, there's nothing wrong with you. It doesn't make you a bad mom. And postpartum, it can last quite some time. People think right after having the baby, you know, maybe the first six or eight weeks, but it actually has been shown that It can last anywhere two to three years. Um, so

it does take some time. The good news is it usually does get better progressively through those two and three years, but I often hear women say, you know, it wasn't until my child was two or my kids stopped breastfeeding or, you know, now that my child is three, I actually have my sex drive back. Like I, you know, stuff like that. And it's, it really is. And. You know, it's interesting because we also, you know, people say postpartum

depression, right? That's like the common one that everybody thinks of when you think of maternal mental health. But they call them peak meds, but it's a whole... cluster essentially of mental health, things that can happen to people postpartum. So, you know, the most common yes is the depression. I'd say second in line to that is anxiety and people don't realize that having anxiety after having a baby can be related to the postpartum. There's also OCD can be really common, prevalent.

Believe it or not, PTSD can also happen. So if you have some sort of, you know, traumatic birth or your birth plan doesn't go according to plan or your baby's in the NICU, there's a lot of things that, you know, we don't always plan for when we go in and have this quote unquote plan in place or what we envision it to look like. It doesn't always go that way and people can really be. traumatized from that and just need

extra support. There's also bipolar, which is just really shifting between different states of mood, which is common if people have been diagnosed with bipolar before, but it can happen after pregnancy as well. And then I would say the psychosis is the one that we all unfortunately hear about in the news and people will discount it and say it's not very common. It's not statistically, but when you look at just the numbers even in

Connecticut. So if you look at, I think they say it's like 1 % or 1 to 3%, something like that. But when we look at all the mothers who give birth in Connecticut, that's about 50 mothers a year in the state of Connecticut alone. Wow. could be struggling with the psychosis piece. And again, it's nothing wrong necessarily with mom. It's, it's your body literally goes through the biggest dip in hormones that your body will ever experience. And it impacts us in so many

ways. Yeah, that was going to be my question, you know, because you're saying it can be as long as two to three years. So, you know, why would that be? Like some people only have it for a couple months and some people might have it longer. Is it hormonal? It can be. Okay. Yeah. And also it depends to breastfeeding can also, I mean, cause it continues the shift in hormones. So that can play a part in it. But you also have to look at, you know, all the other. pieces of

parenting that's also coming at mom. So it's like, yes, she's having this hormonal shift, right? But now she's also responsible for another human being. She might also be working full time. What does her village look like? Does she have people who are jumping in and supporting her? Is she alone? Is she isolated? Did she just relocate for a new job or something like that? We're like,

you know, support is so limited. If there's financial strain on the family, sometimes people don't have paid maternity or it's not equivalent to what, you know, they need to survive, that can actually increase your chances of having postpartum.

Then you've got, you know, the relationship dynamics, like your husband, you go through this huge shift, you know, you birth this child, you're now, you know, taking care of the, you know, primary parent perhaps, and that completely shifts and they don't know, you know, who you're kind of evolving into and that you know, can really weigh on a relationship to resentments, um, you know, feeling like they're not doing enough or feeling like they don't understand why you're not just your,

you know, your normal chipper happy self. Cause you're sleep deprived and you have a baby that's, you know, has a lot of needs and you're trying to learn to balance all of this, like simultaneously when it's also new to everybody. Yeah, so there's, there's a lot of factors that go into it. Um, also if you've struggled with mental health in the past, that can be predictor. Um, but also each pregnancy is different. So sometimes people don't have postpartum with their first and then

do with their second or vice versa. So, um, if you've experienced, if it's, if you know, you're having your second, third, whatever, um, and you've had postpartum with a prior pregnancy, that also increases your chances of having it. I feel like with my first one, I had a little bit of the depression and maybe the anxiety, maybe even the OCD, but after my second with the traumatic childbirth, like definitely the PTSD, I didn't let people drive my babies around

for a year. At least I was just like, I don't know. But now that you're saying it, I'm like, oh, I probably should have talked to someone. Yeah, I was like, oh, yeah, I had that. Oh, yeah, I had that. But like you said, you don't realize that this is not part of what is the normal. That's the fear is that is you know the guilt the shame that there's something wrong with me that I'm I'm feeling this way or I'm having these thoughts when in Reality, it's pretty normal.

They say like one in five women. I'm experienced postpartum They however think it's probably closer to like one in three because it's under reported people Yeah, don't want to share how they're truly feeling for fear that something's gonna happen. They're gonna not let my baby go home from this visit with me or they're going to send me somewhere and I'm going to be separated from my baby. So a lot of times, oftentimes people don't admit when it's happening. Yeah, I feel

very blessed. I don't feel like I had much of any of this, but looking back, maybe there was little things, especially anxiety, but you just kind of deal with it like, oh yeah, well, I'm

tired. You know, it's just a lot or the baby's been crying all night long it you know You just kind of chalk it up to all those things not like I maybe need a little help You know probably why it's under Yeah, and I think that's like the point of it is that such a big scale, you know, you could maybe only suffer minor symptoms of this or you can go to the extreme but it's all yes under this umbrella of these symptoms

that Really should be talked about more. So I think before you go into birth and not just checked up on six weeks after There's just such a lapse in care like you don't see your you don't see your actual doctor mom's doctor till six weeks You know unless something bizarre happens, you know, so there's six weeks. Yeah, you're going to the pediatrician But again people are scared to truly fill out some of those questionnaires, honestly Yeah, and I mean you think about it.

I mean, I feel like we're coming a little bit better with maternity leave but for men, you know, so Yeah, because a lot like my husband I think was home for two weeks and then he was just like off to work and I would cry You know cuz I'm like, oh my god, like how can you just

leave me? It's not his fault. We need to pay the bills, you know, but yeah, I would really cry and I was like super sad that he would just leave me cuz then you're just like And so isolating that's another piece of this that people just like don't talk about it's like you're You know your home and you don't know like the difference between daytime and nighttime I mean you do but Everything meshes into one because you're waking

up every two to three hours. No matter what time of day it is typically so You know, it's just it's it's lonely like and to like just the sitting and the you know feeding the baby and You're just, it's so isolating. It's so isolating. And then, yeah, your spouse, you know, goes back to normal life, working 40 hours, and then you're like, oh, okay. Like, so I'm, like, really alone now. Like, I don't even have, you know, the other

person in my household, so. Yeah. And if you add in winter, you can't even go outside and go for walks, you know? Like, that's the part that really, really hurt me was two winter babies. Same. I planned that very wrong. Very wrong. We need spring and summer babies up here in New England. Yes, we do. We do. Just to get outside is, you know, even if it's a short walk, it helps. The fresh air helps so much. Absolutely. Your

business kind of support with yeah. Sure. Um, so yeah, let me I can explain how evolving tree evolved after having my second child So yeah to speak to how pregnancies can be like just so different my first one. I almost feel like I was like manic I was like I got this I'm doing all the things I had all this energy and my house was beautiful it was just like go go go and I really wanted a second baby and Again, just no awareness of how different that could be or how

hard it could be. I can remember being pregnant with my second and people being like, oh, just wait. It's going to be so hard. But nobody really even offered feedback or these are some ways

you could prepare yourself. So I was also like kind of just like well, that's like not helpful, you know, like I'm already in this I'm pregnant like I can't turn around back But everyone's just telling me like impending doom, you know, and I was really just like no We'll just do two of everything like it's it's gonna be fine and then I had my second and I was trying to sleep train him and He ended up he has sleep apnea.

So I was like, you know trying to sleep train a baby who couldn't be sleep trained anyways, so I'm I'm so sleep deprived and I'm nursing and my other son was 22 months. So that whole pregnancy with my second, I didn't get kind of the rest and the relaxation. The luxury that you have with your first, like, you know, you're tired, you take a nap. There's, you know, you're chasing after a toddler. I was working full time.

So it was just, it was just a lot. And then, so it's like, I'm now, you know, taking care of two babies. I'm sleep deprived and it was just, it was really, really bad. I remember going to my six week followup and the APRN was like, so how's everything going? And I literally just like burst into tears. I was just like, I am so overwhelmed. My anxiety's through the roof.

I can't sleep at night. And, um. And I don't, again, I don't think I disclosed this to her, but you know, because of the same reason that other people didn't, but I knew like I needed help because I literally was getting, it wasn't like an intent or a plan, but I was getting visions of hanging myself in my basement. And it was more, I'm like trigger warning. I should have said that first, sorry. But it was just assigned to, it was almost like a thought of like, Well,

that's always an option. Like, this is really fucking hard. And if I can't figure out how I'm going to manage this, like, you know, but many women feel like that my kids would be better off without me. Or like, I'm not a good enough mom for them. So I just shouldn't try to do this.

So like, I knew at that point, I really like had to, you know, I went into that appointment and she up to my antidepressant and she gave me some like anti -anxiety and she was like you can take this to sleep but you like need somebody to watch the baby because you won't be able to like wake up so thank god you know my mother -in -law is a saint and she took my baby that night and let me sleep through the night for the first time in six weeks and i did i felt

like a new woman i mean my symptoms weren't completely gone i still was very overwhelmed going from one to two but i just experienced firsthand how Difficult this is and isolating and luckily being in this field, I obviously believe very strongly in it. So I, you know, I reached out, I found a postpartum therapist. I started working with her once a week. She was lovely. Um, and really, really helpful. And so, yeah, so I had this, my own personal experience and I ended up bumping

into a previous coworker at daycare pickup. Our littles were in the same daycare class and we just started talking and started doing like. play dates and um I started sharing with her kind of my experience and she said me too like you know so hard and all the things and um we were just realizing like god Mom's just, we need support. Mom is like just, she's the core of the family. She literally is the trunk. She's

the giver of life. And if we don't pour life into her and she's running on fumes, everybody's going to suffer. But if we can really give her like strong foundation and roots, those leaves and those branches are going to grow beautifully and everybody benefits. So we had started talking about, we were both therapists and we started talking about like, what if we created this place? moms could go to be cared for. Like mom is the

one that's caring for everybody else. So what if she can go somewhere and get that care that she's giving all day long to everybody else and just how wonderful that would be. And also just a safe space to talk about motherhood. Cause you know, there's everybody feels guilty saying that like, sometimes this sucks and it's really freaking hard and I'm struggling. So a place where We can just validate that for you, but

like it's okay. It can be like the most wonderful, beautiful, deep love that you ever experienced. And you can also hate parts of it and say that like this is terrible. And my life has been turned upside down and I don't know who I am anymore. I just feel like I'm taking care of everybody else's needs and there's room for it all. You know, it doesn't make you a bad mom. It makes you a real person who has needs, wants desires

and like, that's okay. And it's okay to take care of yourself and give yourself that gift, you know, like a place where moms can even gather and start to build that community, that village. Cause it's also important to find other women in your life who have children within the same, you know, age as your children. Cause you might have friends who have kids, but if they're, you know, in middle school, it's like they're so far removed from what it's like to be, you know,

home with your own. Yeah. So it just helps to have people who are going through the same things. Yeah. Now, I know it's mainly moms, but like, do you treat fathers, families in general? Because I've heard, you know, men can get postpartum depression, too. And I've known a few that it's that it happened to, you know, would you be open to treating men, family. Yep. So we, we work with, um, moms, we work with non -birthing partners.

We also will work with parents, like as, as a couple unit, um, so like couples counseling and, um, yeah, men, that's another piece of this that again, just isn't talked about. They say one in 10 men experience some form of postpartum anxiety, depression, because their whole life

changes too. Like not only does their partner change, but just their home life changes and men face a whole bunch of different challenges as well, you know, feeling like they're not good enough all of a sudden or they're not making enough money or they're not the provider that they thought they could be. Or, you know, they're struggling with, I don't know what to do with this baby. I feel really inadequate or I don't

know how to help and support my wife. Like I can clearly see she's struggling, but oftentimes men get frustrated and they get angry because sadness and inadequacy is not valued. with men in our society. So anger is okay. Um, so oftentimes like that's what you see because they just, they feel powerless and that can be really hard for a male to admit. So whether it's like getting support for themselves or even just some. Kind of you know guidance and coaching and reassuring

or even just psycho education on what? You know your partner is going through and how you might be able to help with that can just be really really helpful for couples I Love that. That's awesome that you just treat the family as a whole as well, you know, because it really is the unit, you know That's what it is now. Yeah, it's a

unit. Yeah so you mentioned, you know anger and and all of that um what about the term mom rage because i i know i get it from time to time same yeah and then the amount of guilt you feel afterwards and it just it's a vicious cycle right because you like you get to your wits end and then you lash out and then you're sad terrible and then you feel guilty and you're like this isn't the person i want to be um yeah so that's another part of postpartum that Um, you know, it's not

like a diagnosable thing, but it's very, very common postpartum. So mom rage essentially is it's needs that aren't getting met. So. Whether that's I'm not sleeping, I'm not eating, I'm not taking care of myself, I'm overwhelmed, I don't have an identity anymore. I feel like I'm just giving, giving, giving and nobody's filling my cup. That's where a lot of the resentments come in and all these unmet needs make us really

angry. Yeah. I always feel like when I get like that sometimes with the kids, it's like, I've never been that person. I've never fought with anybody. I've never been in a verbal altercation before. And now I'm going to have my first ones with my children. Like, what is going on? I've never been so upset with somebody before. Yeah. I mean, parenting's hard. It sure is. It's incredibly frustrating. I mean, You feel like you repeat yourself literally like 600 times of the same

things and like nobody's listening. You know, and it's just, it's the frustration of like, we're coming at it from a adult, you know, fully developed brain and these children, they're not, you know, like they won't have fully developed brains for 25 years. So, you know, we expect that they're going to listen to everything we say and do what we're asking. And like, that's just not, it's not. you know, developmentally appropriate for them to be able to follow that.

And it's just really incredibly frustrating, you know, especially when there's other like, stresses coming down, like I know, you know, everybody leaving the house is like, just so hard. And it's like, okay, now we're gonna be late. And it just all these other pressures start compiling, you know, as you're rushing, or you forget something, you know, that's so common. And then you feel like, oh, my gosh, I'm going to be judged. I'm the one mom with a kid who

I didn't even bring a diaper back. Like, what am I doing? You know, like, it's just like, you know, but it's like you're human. Like, we're all human. And like, it's okay. It's okay to make mistakes. And it doesn't mean that you're a bad mom. It just means that you're human. And like, there is a lot going on. What would you say to the mom who does feel guilty or ashamed about having that, you know, kind of experience? How would therapy help them? you know, work through

those feelings if they are really stressed. And I mean, my kids are five and eight now. So like, I'm dealing with it in a different level of probably past all that postpartum stuff. But, you know, what, what would you say to someone like, how could therapy help them with that? Yeah, so therapy can really provide you with tools. So coming up with, you know, things that you can do a just to take care of yourself. And sometimes that's setting boundaries or asking for the help that

you need. are setting aside and scheduling that into your schedule. But it can also just be a placed event and get validated. And sometimes even just that validation can really go a long way to just normalize what we're experiencing. But there's also a ton of tips and tricks and identifying when is it that the anger strikes or what is that around? You know, it could just be that our environment is chaotic and we're

overstimulated. And, you know, with little ones, they're banging the same thing over and over. You've got the TV going, the vacuum going, the, you know, the washer, the dryer, the dishwasher. And you're just like, oh my God, I'm going to lose my mind. Like it's all too much. Or the dog barking, you know, it's just, it's chaotic. It's very overstimulating. It doesn't bother them, but to us, it's just, it adds to like the chaos, especially if we're not, you know, well.

mentally. So creating different tools and things that you can do so that you have a little bit more self -control. But that regular self -care also can just help with the baseline. So it's like, if you're feeling better and you're getting your needs met to a certain degree and you're able to take that time that you need, you are coming at it from a different place of coming at it when you're empty. Yeah, that's great.

You need a toolbox. Yeah, yeah. A lot of times even just like dividing the load, you know, of the household can be such a relief and kind of, you know, like you said, kind of fix that baseline to begin with and that default parent role. It

kind of happens without even like talking. about it right it just like you give birth and now all of a sudden you're the ceo of the family and yeah and everybody's schedule and everybody's existence and their doctor's appointments and their meals and clothing and everything um just depends on you so yeah so that's another piece that i feel like on my journey to creating evolving tree that really i think was the first time that i felt like so just seen and validated as a mom

um i actually had a client come in and he was like talking to me about how things were better with him and his partner. I said, Oh, really? What changed? And he was like, Oh, we watched this documentary. And I was like, we're talking about tree. And he said, um, it's called fair play. It's on Hulu. And I was like, Oh, so I went home and I watched it and it was just so validating. So it talks about the history of

women and. You know, our typical family. So if you look back to, you know, the 1950s, mom stayed at home and her goal was to take care of the house and parent the children and dad. was solely for income. Well, as, you know, society has changed, women have entered the workforce. The gender roles haven't caught up with where we're at and what the expectations of a mom is. So it's like now we get to do the all three. We get to take care of the house. We get to, you know, be the

main parent for the children. And then we also get to work full time. And that's just like literally humanly impossible. Yeah. And oftentimes mom ends up being the default parent. And this isn't, I want to be very clear. Like there are so many dads who are amazing and this is not like, you know, man bashing or dad bashing or partner bashing.

It's more just like, we are all raised in the same system with the same norms and like they're victims of this just as much as we are, you know, like This generation of fathers is so much more involved than even our generation of fathers were, you know, like they're changing diapers. They're, you know, bringing them to practice, you know, sometimes some dads are staying home nowadays. I mean, it's awesome. Like there are huge progress, but they're still oftentimes.

differences as far as like who's handling what in the households and that really can weigh on mom because when she doesn't have help with the parenting and or you know the household chores it's like it's just it's so much and and the mental load of caring all that so like just a simple simple example is like you know the toothpaste runs low and then the next day a new tooth toothpaste arrives and Oh, and dad just brushes the teeth, head on his way. Like he didn't think about that.

But mom is constantly scanning the cupboards, scanning, you know, making sure, stacking everything and bringing the kids to the doctor's appointments, the sports, all of it. Like, it's just, it's so much. So just really talking about how we need a shift. Like we've had such a shift with feminism, which has been amazing. But now it's like, this is now the calling. What feminism... was for women, this is now the calling of dividing up our household labor and doing it as fairly

as we can. And that doesn't always mean 50 -50, because sometimes we don't work as much, or our jobs require different things of us. So maybe it's a 30 -70 split, and that works for you and your partner. But it's really just coming together as a team and realizing it's not like, what do you need help with? We also hate that question, right? It's like, okay, now I have to make a list of everything I need to do that I need help with. Like, you know, you're an adult, like look

around, what needs to be done, you know? But really like stepping up and figuring out these are the ways in which you can help our family and contribute. And yes, I can't scream and say it enough if you have not seen fair play. I think it could be wonderful for couples to watch, but in the very least as a mom, it's so validating to our experience and just understanding why this is happening, what it looks like. And she

also proposes solutions. She has like a whole, she calls it the Fair Play method, but it's essentially figuring out how to divide the household labor. And she has a deck of cards. It's like. a hundred different things that every household kind of needs to run. And if you own a card, essentially it's from conception through to execution. So, you know, if garbage is you, that means your wife doesn't think about garbage bags. If we need them, she does not take the garbage out.

She just knows that you've got it. You're taking it out and she doesn't have to think about it anymore. And that relieves the mental load for mom. So the more that dad can take on some of that stuff, then her burden lessens. And it also benefits him. That's the other piece. Like your wife will be nicer later, happier. She might want to have sex with you if she's not so pissed off that you haven't done anything today. You

know what I mean? Or like men, oftentimes like the chores and the tasks that they're traditionally do is like, you know, the yard work. So it's a lot of the stuff that gets recognition, people come over and they're like, Oh, well, your looks great or whatever, you know, or the different, you know, home improvements, maybe where mom, it's like invisible labor, like, she's doing the dishes and, you know, the laundry and just all those things that like constantly need to

be done. It's not once a week, she's going out mowing the lawn. She's, you know, dishes and laundries all day long. So it's like, it's this invisible labor too that happens. And I just think that, you know, there's not a lot of understanding of how much is on women and how heavy and suffocating that can be and how much, if you can take some of that from her, it will just help you. And it's also to like, you know, educating that next

generation. We want to raise sons and daughters that don't have these gender roles that jump in and just want to work together and don't even know who's supposed to handle what. It's like we as a family determine that. So, yeah. It's like our generation right now is, is forming that bridge to like get it that way. How exciting that is. Like we're, we're literally leading the future in, in this whole dynamic, you know,

in how we raise our kids. But I think a lot of it It just comes down to great communication. We have to be open and willing to speak about these things and, you know, to share with our partner, like, look, I can't do everything and still be the happy -go -lucky and still want to jump in bed and, you know, and be your wife, like, at the end of the night, like, you know, because it's like... I'm exhausted. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, my husband's great. I can't really

complain. I mean, we have very... you know, open communication, we share everything, we share all the duties and stuff. But I can imagine if, you know, he was the typical like, oh, I'm going to go golfing all day Sunday after you just did everything all week, like, oh, all right, well, then you kind of build a little bit of resentment. And that's not a good addition to the equation, you know, but it's got to kind of be equal give and take, you know, and you both deserve that

time. Yeah, you know, like, that's another thing, like, we look at as a society, like, you know, men's time is infinite, you know, the golf, the other things that, you know, is considered normal men things, but it's like, women don't necessarily have that, like, they think we just have like

unlimited time to do all the things. And when we start, you know, valuing, and this goes back to, you know, Wages and what we pay women and for the same work as males, you know I mean we have a long way to go We've come a long way to not get me wrong We have a long way to go when we start valuing, you know child care providers and compensating them appropriately and Valuing stay -at -home moms because if you add up how much you would pay somebody to do what a stay

-at -home mom does It's a pretty penny. So like she's a valuable. We're all valuable and our time is valuable and if we can respect that in each other it's only going to help your relationship and create more homoestasis at home. And who doesn't want that? We don't want conflict and resentment. We want everybody to be happy. Yeah, I mean, Emily mentioned in the last one, right, when you said like, mom's everything. She's the

CEO. She's the I don't even know what you you rambled off like the CEO, the event planner, the chef, the cooker, the cleaner. Yeah, cruise director. We always joke about that. Like, what are we doing next? Geez, I don't know, bingo. Like, what is happening? The entertainment, yeah. Yeah, everything, you know. The magic. So yeah, that's why we were kind of influencing men to kind of fill up mom's cup a little bit last week, you know. But this is like, this is on a whole

other level of filling mom's cup. It's, you know. Can make a huge difference. Yeah. Yeah. Why don't we get into the mental load of motherhood? Like, yeah, the mental load that comes with it. It's something that you guys highlight in your practice, what the mental load looks like, and why does

it get overlooked? Yeah. So it's the mental load of motherhood, you know, the constant going that doesn't end, you know, it's like, Carly, you mentioned it last time, you're like, my husband just, you know, his head hits the pillow and he's passed out and you're like, and I'm planning out my whole next day and who needs what. And, you know, it's just, it doesn't ever stop when

you're running a household. So, you know, the constant it's anywhere from figuring out, you know, what supplies we need, what do the kids need for, you know, the special spirit day or spirit week that we have going on. I mean, the expectations, I feel like of parents compared

to even just when we were being raised. I mean, People I feel like threw together little birthday parties and not that they weren't very special but like I mean what we do for our kids now It's just it's so much more elaborate, you know, so there's just so much more I think planning that goes into it and then you add in the technology, you know, which can be such a blessing but it's also you know, it also adds sometimes to a lot of this too of you know what we need what things

cost just to you know, function in normal day society. But yeah, I mean, it can go anywhere from just, you know, stocking the house to running the household to what are all the things that the children need getting them to all their doctor's

appointments or dentist appointments. If you have a child who has special needs and has therapy appointments or treatments or whatever, I mean, you're coordinating everybody and the childcare, you know, if you're working and you're not the one that's doing all the running around, it's who's coordinating, who's picking them up at what time and getting them to do they have, you know, everything in their lunchbox, they're, you know, I forgot to send a drink or they got

sent to school today without a coat, or, you know, I mean, it just, I couldn't, I could go on and on and on. I just, you know. all the improvements around the house, the projects, you know, um, it's just, it's, it's so much. And I don't think we give women enough credit for all that they do and the weight of all that they do and the exhaustion. Like it, it's just, it's so much.

So really being able to name it, acknowledge it, talk about it, um, and find ways to also like, heal from it, find solutions, find, you know, what's your values? What's important? You don't have to do all the things because that's what social media is telling us to do. Like, what's important to you and your family? And what if you weren't to do all the other things that you don't value or don't align with your

values? And like, how can we simplify this and make it better for you and more manageable for you? Yeah, that's great. I feel like I need to book a segment with you. Where do I sign up? Check, check, check, check. So what about like, I know a lot of, like I said before in the last one, you lose your identity a bit as you know, when you become a mom. And I just recently started getting back into my hobbies and things that

like pulled out that past. side of myself. And I know that made a huge difference for my personal self. Like, is that something that you kind of encourage in your practice? Yes, it's another, you know, piece of evolving. And that's one of the reasons for the name evolving tree therapy is, you know, mom's the tree of life. But motherhood truly calls us to the table and to stand up and continue to evolve as a human being and also evolve as a woman and a mother and all the different

roles that we have in our life. And, you know, really getting back to figuring out, like, What is my identity? Because it gets so lost in early motherhood. And as much as, you know, motherhood is part of our identity, it's not our only identity. And it's okay to have interests and hobbies and things that make you feel like you, the you that you knew before you had kids. Like that is okay.

It's okay to want those things. It's okay to want free time to be able to, um, I don't know, walk into a store and not have to carry in two children. You know, I mean, like it's like the simplest things. Yeah. You know, but once you have kids, it gets so complex and like nothing's just easy anymore. You know, so really being able to explore that. And I also will, you know,

ask clients, well, who do you want to be? Like your workload has nearly doubled, if not tripled and you know, who do you envision yourself being like what's important to you? Because that's part of it is we do continue to evolve and change and who we are today isn't who we are 10 years

ago or pre kids. But who do you want to be? I think that's the beauty in life is like, we can choose to a certain degree, you know, of course, there's our innate characteristics and things that interest us and don't and whatever, but we can also continue to evolve and change and Rediscover ourselves and find ourselves and motherhood you can have it all like you don't have to change into that Frumpy mom or whatever you want to call it, you know where it's like my only existence

is to cater to everybody else It's like no you will be able to be a better mom when you're able to fill some of your own needs Because you're not pouring from an empty cup, you know, totally That's yeah, I feel that way big -time you your cup needs to have some a fluid in it If you're gonna give it to everybody else. Yeah, can't can't pour from an empty cup for sure. So how can talk therapy? Like, you know what we're doing now? Because I feel great. I feel fantastic.

Great. How can talk therapy like help guide someone through this transformation? Because, you know, when I look back at becoming a mom, it feels like a blur spots. I don't remember. Right. And I do feel like I'm still the same person. Clearly. I'm probably not, you know, I might have a sense of self, but like how if someone really does feel like, geez, I'm just I'm just not myself. And I want to feel that girl again. I want to, you know, what is what's like, how could you

guide them through that? Can we give our listeners some tips? Absolutely. You know, it's. I feel like we do a whole bunch of different things. It, of course, depends on the client and what they're identifying they want to do. But I think it's a lot of just it's listening, it's exploring, it's allowing them to genuinely talk in a safe space where I'm not going to judge you. We all have intense feelings. We are all complex beings.

It's OK to say that. things suck or you don't like this or you hate this about yourself or you really wanted to love motherhood and you're really just finding yourself really resentful about it and like there's room for it all and it's okay to say those taboo things that society tells us it's not okay to say and really just creating that space and the work that you can do like I also say like it's almost a gift to give yourself that that one hour that you're

going to carve out once a week that's just for you, like, whatever it is that you want to talk about, this is your hour to talk about anything. And, you know, a lot of it, yeah, it's exploring, it's coming up with solutions, it's identifying, like, what is important to you? What do you want to be important to you? How do we align what our actions are with those values or the outcomes

that you're looking to do? You know, how do we set boundaries with family members that are being too pushy or, you know, Pushing you in a direction that you don't want to be in You know, or how do you ask for help? What are you doing to take care of yourself? Who are those people in your

life? That's important to you, you know to like we work with Kind of a spectrum arranged so we'll work with people who are like preconceptions so like somebody who might just be like thinking about getting pregnant and wants to explore that or Maybe they didn't imagine themselves having kids and all of a sudden, you know, they turn 39 now they're having that anxiety and they want to like explore that to, you know, people who maybe have experienced pregnancy loss to infertility,

people going through the infertility process and how hard and challenging and emotional and sad that can be. you know, through to people who are currently pregnant. I think that's an awesome time to come to therapy because it also gives you a space to talk about some of the stuff

before you're actually in it. um to create a plan and it doesn't mean that because we create a plan it's going to be what the plan is but the important piece is like having these conversations like who is your village who's going to do the mail train for you who can you call when you are sleep deprived and losing your mind you know and this baby's screaming and you don't know what else to do with yourself besides walk away you know like who are those people for you um

who's going to handle what like when the baby comes home. I mean, we spent so much time, I feel like talking about what the nursery is going to look like and where we're registered and what, you know, car seats going to work best. But like, we don't talk about who's going to be washing the dishes and who's getting up and changing the baby. And like, those things are just as important, if not more to talk about and plan for and think about, like as part of your kind

of birthing plan. So we work with those families. We work with, you know, once they give birth and then we essentially will work with people up until we call it like parenting littles. So like anybody who has a kid like five or below. So really, you know, the people who are in the thick of it and how can we help them feel rooted and grounded and give them some tools so that life doesn't have to be as painful as it is when they make that phone call that they need some

support. Yeah, it's kind of like pre, uh, like you said, like pre -planning or preventing the, you know, that to take place. I wish I knew you when I was going through it because honestly, like, I'm not in the thick of it now, but when I was, I was struggling and I was hiding it and I was not vocal with, you know, even my husband. Like, yeah, I mean, he would kind of see that he would come home and I look like I'd been crying and he kind of got it. But it was it was not

easy. It was not easy. And I didn't I wish I was more brave to like share it because it is I think a lot more women go through it than we realize. And, you know, you just have to know like you're not alone. We're not the only one who feels this way. There is help out there. Yeah. And that's essentially, it really gave me a purpose and passion and desire to create this space for other moms. I wish I knew me too, because I didn't even think about those things.

But now that I've done all this training to specialize in this, I'm like, gosh, there's so many things we can't do. And why is this not just the standard of care that you go to your OB and she's like, oh, OK, here. Here's the evolving tree. They're going to help you set up a plan for you and your husband for when the baby comes home. Start talking

to them. That's genius. Absolutely genius. Like we think about all the other things, how we're going to pay for things, what daycare they're going to go to, but we don't talk about our relationship or how our mental health is going to change once we bring a baby into this world. Oh, you're incredible. I love you. Just want to hug all the mamas. I just want to give them so much love they deserve and so much recognition. Thank you so much for sharing your story too with us to be vulnerable.

you know, just because you do the therapy doesn't mean that you're not going to go through it, right? Yes. Yes. We're people too. You know, yeah, I think. And that's the thing. It's like hearing I'm a therapist and I'm going through postpartum and like I was like blindsided. I didn't expect that because I didn't experience it with my first one. You know, so I do this day in and day out and I was blindsided. So if I'm blindsided, you know, there's a lot of other

mamas out there who are too. Absolutely. But it gave you that, you know, that experience. So now you really know what you're talking about. And whoever comes and talks to you, they're going to immediately know that, like, you get it. You hear them. You've been through it. There is zero judgment. And I love that because really, I mean, the best teachers are the ones who actually went through it. I love when like your OB's a guy and he's like, oh yeah, so you're going to feel

best. Are you married a child? Like, yeah, you studied it. I'll give you that. No, no, I just love you and everything about this whole, all of it. And I really hope that if there's any mommies out there that are in the thick of it to reach out. So like, how can they get ahold of you, Jacqueline? Yeah. Um, so they can, the best way is just to check out our website. It's just evolving treat therapy .com. Um, on there,

there's an appointment request. They can just enter their information and I do all the intake calls and the pairing with my therapists that work for us and, um, Yeah, it's a very easy, simple process. We're really flexible. So we do have locations in the Northwest corner of Connecticut. So Torrington, Winstead and Canaan. We also can treat anyone virtually in the state of Connecticut. And honestly, moms, you know,

virtual is like a godsend. It just makes it so much easier to just kind of run out, lock yourself in the car or, you know, the garage or whatever works to get your time. But, you know, you can really take the call from wherever and we'll

meet you wherever you're at. and whatever we can do to help and support and you know it it's a gift that continues giving because you're giving the gift of a healthy mom to your kids yeah i have goosebumps i know it's so good it's so good so we gave jacklyn the honor of picking our weekly quote and i think it's just phenomenal so what do you got for us jacklyn okay so No one even mentioned it in nine whole months. Not one person said you're about to meet someone Entirely new

and it's not your baby. It's going to be you. I'm not crying. You're crying. Okay Mike drop My goodness Jacqueline has been such a pleasure. Thank you so much for being our first guest on

our podcast. This is having me. This was lovely Well, you're amazing you're incredible inside and out such a lovely person anyone who is out there reach out Get the help that you deserve because you're not alone There are other mommies just like you and you can get through this So I hope everyone has a really great week special week fill your cup mom's and as always keep it good