Why Is Breastfeeding SO Complicated ft Kristen Bell (Pt. 1)

opinions that are all valid. We're here to talk it out, share experiences, and figure it out together. So on this episode, we're talking about breastfeeding. This is a huge and massive and triggering topic that we could spend forever talking about. In fact, there's so much to talk about that we're actually going to split this episode into two parts because, like I said, it's just a lot. But here in

part one, we're going to start at the beginning. We're going to talk about making the decision to breastfeed or not to breastfeed, and some of the early issues we encountered along the way. First up is my girl Kristin Bell, who you may know from the Good Place and Veronica Mars and bad Moms and what else? What else? What else? I mean, there's just so many amazing things. Hello, Frozen, Um,

she's here. She's going to share her breastfeeding experiences. And then after Kristen, we're going to talk to my dear friend Jamie Greenberg. She's a celebrity makeup artist and does my makeup on all my red carpet events, and she's going to talk about her journey with three kids and her choice not to breastfeed. Oh and f y, I guys, about halfway through our chat with Kristen Bell, the lawnmower is super loud, so just enjoy pat would you again?

Welcome to my world Katie's Crib. We got lawnmowers, dogs, barking, babies crying. It's all happening here. Hi, Christens, thank you very much for being on Katie's rib, which is what we're calling it. I love that because I have a baby in a crib currently and we are taping these

podcasts in my crib. Um. So Kristen Bell, you guys, is here because she was very helpful to me in a time when I was very new to breastfeeding, which is a very hot topic, very triggering, very I would say it's the hardest job I've ever had in my entire life, other than trying to be a professional actress.

Um So, Kristen Uh we met when I was had a five week old and breasting was very new, and it was so hard I lost a nipple in the process, I had a cracked boob, which we will hear more about how that all went down with the breast specialist that's going to be coming on named Linda Hannah. But Kristen tell us about was breastfeeding an obvious choice for you? Was it something that you knew you wanted to do? Um? Yes, but I don't. I didn't feel like I really thought

much about it. It felt uh, it just felt like I don't know. I didn't. I didn't give it much weight, so I just transition to it into it organically, though I did UM. After I was breastfeeding, spend a lot of time thinking about the struggles women go through when they can't breastfeed for any reason, and realizing how much I had wrapped up in it personally and thinking, Wow, what would I have thought about if I had to do formula? If that was my only option. And this

is the conclusion I've come to about breastfeeding. It is it really, really is one of the hardest things for women because you take it personally when you can't do it, and it's very, very hard. And I say that having had very few problems breastfeeding, but it is so important to women to be able to do it because you want to satisfy your baby. But the conclusion I've come to is if you my sister did not want to do it. She just didn't want to. She didn't feel

like having barnacles on her boobs all day. She had four kids, so she bound her boobs four kids, and she had four kids. She bound her boobs after everyone she said, I don't want to do it. And I thought, by the way, that's how you stop Yeah, that's how you stop it. You just don't let it come in. And I was like, my sister, by the way, is

ten times the mother I am. So there's nothing like I guess my like my main motto about breastfeeding is like, there is nothing wrong with if you can't do it, or you have to supplement Look, I was supplemented with formula. I'm perfectly healthy. Everyone was it's all fine. It's all fine because there but there are. I was so interested in the topic UM that I just you know, read and read and learned all these crazy things. I also pregnant, um no while I was breastfeeding, but I also had UM.

You know there are. You starting breastfeeding, I think is the hardest because you're dealing with cracked nipples, you're dealing with the baby latch, you're dealing with inversion, inverted nipples, all these things I had. Yeah, it is, and I had a lot of friends that had them. But um, halfway down the road, when you're knee deep into breastfeeding, the mastitis, talk to me about mass Titis is a

an infection. It's a blocked milk duct. And when you so so look, if your milk doesn't come in, you might feel like you suck and you have to go to formula. Don't beat yourself up. If your milk does come in and you have too much milk like I did, your ducks can get blocked very easily and you still feel like you suck. Because what can happen with mastitis

is it gets blocked, it starts to get sore. If you are not so on top of that, you have to stand under the shower, you have to put heat packs on it, you have to open that duct up or get that baby to sun painful. It's pretty painful in the beginning when it's forming. If it goes to the second stage and the baby doesn't suck it out, it can get infected the third stage after if it gets infected, it can go to your blood and it's like literally hospital you you could die. So you have

to be very serious about messitis. It's dead serious. I had mess sides three times. Um. I took antibiotics twice, and that's another thing. Women. Look, I don't love taking antibiotics. I know, I know about superbugs. I watched sixty minutes and like, don't want to take antibiotics, willy nilly. But I also don't want to die in the hospital because of breastfeeding. So both times I trust my obie. I took antibiotics. The third time it was probably had been

breastfeeding for I don't know a while. It was on my second child, and I knew it was coming. I could feel it coming. You can feel it internally or you feel like a lump or something. You feel a soreness, feels like a bruise inside your boob, and then you should be able to feel a little lump. It will feel very sore. At that point, you need to start doing like those hot pocket things that you know use when you're skiing. Put those on in your bra stand

under the shower, massage it out. Get that baby to suck as much as possible. So, I like, breastfeeding is so crazy because your baby is so needed to do half the job. Yeah. Yeah, and nobody blames the baby, Like, wait, it's all my fall because we're not breastfeeding correctly. Maybe you're not breastfeeding correctly. Maybe you need to latch better, like you don't want to blame the baby, but like takes two to tango. But the third time I had mastitis,

I knew it was coming. I had been there, done that. You'll so you'll feel a bruise, you will feel if it gets if the infection is there, you will start to get very very cold, and I mean a level of cold that you have never felt before. And it will be because you have a fever and your fever is trying to kill the bacteria. I was the first time I had at my my first daughter Lincoln was six weeks I. We were at a hotel with our parents because we were like, let's do a little like

um yeah, like baby getaway. Parents will meet the baby at six weeks whatever. So I'm in bed and I'm like, God, I am freezing. I had a pair of gloves on, I had two sweaters, Dax's jacket, like three pairs of socks, two pairs of sweatpants. I was also under the comforter and I had like a warm winter hat on. And I was never been colder in my life. And that's when I got my first set of antibiotics. Sort of same thing the second time. Third time, I knew it was coming and I said to my husband and then

this is a lot of information, but get ready. I said to my husband. I was like, I don't want to do antibiotics. If we can get this out. The baby is not sucking hard enough. I need you to be a team player here. And he was like gross, okay, and this is why he's husband of the Year. But he, I swear to God, he pulled that out. I made him. We laid on the bed together, I made him nurse. He sits down, nurses and it was a while I mean, it was like thirty minutes and he had his jaw

was sore because he was sucking so hard. Because I was like, you gotta suck harder. I was pushing on the side of my boob. He was pulling, and he this is very gross. He started getting the block out. He started getting because because it's it's gooey, it's like mucus or something. And then he had to get a cop He was like gagging, which I don't blame him of the century, he's spitting it into a cup, but

I'll be damned, he pulled it out. He pulled it out, and I didn't have to take any and so you never got sick like you the second the third time, I never get six No, yeah there, Yeah, it's rough, but um, but you know, the the amount of antibiotics the baby gets is negligible, so it's it's all okay. Um. Did you schedule your breastfeeding? Were you on demand for a certain amount of time and then did you move to like a schedule. I started on a schedule, so

I took when I came home from the hospital. I also had advice from a baby nurse that I trusted very much um. She talked to me a lot about the theory of not losing myself within all this, which I felt was very important because I am such a people pleaser. I'm like, well, great, I'm just going to be a people pleaser to this baby and I'll go crazy. So she was like, make sure you you sit with your husband at night, you have a glass wine, you like,

connect with him. Make sure your baby needs to eat every couple hours, but you'll know so rather than being on demand and putting the boob in the mouth every time they're fussy, which gets them accustomed to that soothing. She's like, it's kind of like us, Like I may want to eat potato chips right now, I don't need potato chips, And to be honest, I'd love if someone said to me, you don't need a potato go take a walk around the block, or let's play a game

or something. So I did schedule and I was very happy with it, but some people prefer. Look at a lot of people are more on the go and they want to I didn't want to be a food truck at any time. I just wanted to have more of a schedule. But some people don't mind it. And I really think it is an individual choice. I do too. Um So, how do you feel about breastfeeding in public?

I have no problem with it? Here's I mean. I actually think it's very very funny that people think this is such a big deal because there is nothing more primitive and beautiful and organic than breastfeeding a baby. And if you have a problem seeing the corner of my boob, that's not you. Okay, that's not my problem. You can turn your head, you know what I mean, like that, that's that's not you. You got to take care of that, because the sheets and the whole, I mean, I get it.

If you're modest, I'm not very modest. Like I don't I don't care much. I would breastfeed in front of anyone because of this. If I'm in a room full of people, guess who the most important person in that room is my baby if they're hungry, I don't care if you see my boob. Like, by the way, my boobooks gorgeous because it's beautiful and a little better so, by the way, half of it was my ego of like see this, I have this for a minute, This is mine, this great boob. Second of all, if you

don't like it, you can turn your head. Don't make that my fault. I mean, I'm I'm just coming to terms with this, Like I don't know why I have, Like I've been doing it in public everywhere. I think a big thing about breastfeeding and making it doable is that you have to be able to do it anywhere at any time, if if you really want to continue doing it and make it a part of your life. Because let's I'm not going to sit in my house for a year breastfeeding my kid. I'm going to be

out at a restaurant. I'm going to be out in public. I have errands to run. And it became such a freeing thing to me to know, Hey, guess what, you can take your baby to all these things because your boobs come with you and you can eat with you. So like, just get used to doing it anywhere any time that you need to. Well, I look at as my superpower. I wish people looked at it like that, like when I look at my C section scar or

like my saggy boobs. Now, I'm like, these are this, these are remnants of the fact that this is evidence that I am a superhero. I did something extraordinary. I birthed two babies, and so when when I would feel very confident to breastfeed anywhere, because like that was that was very very powerful and cool to me, and my baby is the most important thing in the room, and no one else really mattered. I love it. How long

did you breastfeed for? I breastfed for I breast fed for like um fifteen months with my first one UM. But I pumped a lot, you know, I went back to work, and so I would pump four or five times during the day and still come home and give her the milk. And I had saved up a lot of milk. So then she had milk till I was like eighteen months. Then I got um pregnant. No, I'm sorry. I breastfed until a year, and then she had milk

till I was fifteen months. I got pregnant when she was a year, and I was still breastfeeding at night, and it became very difficult for me to sustain even just taking in the calories that that sustained me, my daughter and the baby in my belly. So I it was a lot. It was like eating for truly for

three people. So I stopped it is a little bit hard to stop breastfeeding because it is slightly painful because you will have a letdown, which means this kind of feels like your boob is in a microwave, and a letdown means the milk is coming in. You can feel it, and by the way, it's a really good feeling. It's a really really good feeling. But when you have a letdown and you're trying to stop breastfeeding, you have to ignore that let down and just get to the next one.

So you basically have to deal with the engorgement um and then kind of just start to to wean the amount that the baby is pulling out less and less feedings. Yes, less and less feedings. You pull them off the boob one or two minutes before they're ready. So you said you went back to work, Like, how did you manage breastfeeding?

So you would pump in the day, come home with the bottles, freeze some of them, give some Yeah, I mean, I, first of all, I'm lucky to have a job where I have a voice and a little bit of power. So I simply said I have to stop four times a day to breastfeeds. So you guys are gonna have to figure out what to do for those fifteen minutes and that's just going to be what it is. And I'm sorry, but but again, my baby is more important.

Now a lot of people are not in that position, but in uh, you know, the dawn of a new age where this is finally a respected topic, there are a lot of nursing rooms being put and I would just you're really all, yeah, really are there at like airports now they have these little know there's a nursing there's like it's it's unbelievable and I never noticed them before I was a nurse, same mother obviously, but like it's incredible. I'm so I'm relieved. I also, I just

feel I'm getting more. I'm coming more to terms with like being on a plane and just hand pumping in front of you. Yeah, by the way, you got you got to. And I just would encourage women to like feel confident about that. We don't have to feel we are no longer in a place where we need to feel ashamed or defensive. So it's kind of like, you know, if you're at a job where you can't necessarily like wag your finger in your boss's face and say I'm

stopping to pump, but if you need to. It's like if you your blood sugar was low at work, you would say, I'm so sorry, I need to stop for a snack. It would you wouldn't feel ashamed to say that. You also wouldn't feel defensive, like you better let me have a snack. It's the same with breastfeeding. It's just a fact that has to happen. So I'm I'm very sorry, I'm gonna need to go breastfeed right now, or I'm

gonna need to go pump. Um. And I just wish it were Yeah, I wish it were like a calmer topic that women didn't feel um insecure about, um, you know, discussing their needs. If you are uncomfortable with boobs, which, by the way, that's not a problem either. Fine, if you're uncomfortable, you can turn your head. You can help me with this situation, and you can just turn your head because it's not on me to conform to whatever

your taboos about a boo bar. One of the most talked about benefits of breastfeeding is a bonding that happens with your newborn. Do you, um, do you feel like that's true? Yeah? I think I I, although I don't know if it's very conscious because my first one, I guess I felt more sentimental about the breastfeeding. My second one. She was like she was feral when she was born and she's still and she was like at six months, was like, I'm done, I'm too busy, I only want

the bottle. I'm not interested in your boob. Sorry, not sorry. And I tried not to take it personally, but then I realized she's an individual. This is the first decision she's made as a strong young woman. And I was like, I'm gonna work around that. I'm not going to feel bad of like what am I doing wrong? She just doesn't want the boob, That's fine, and so yeah, I just sort of let her be who she was, and I pumped for the next I don't know, ten months

or something. But here's what happened to me. Since I had a toddler who's two, and I had a baby who was six months who wouldn't nurse. It is if you're exclusively pumping, it is hard to keep your supply up because the baby does give you a level of oxytocin that gives you more milk. Yeah, so my toddler was still very interested in having milk because she saw the baby do it. She knows it's bonding. She loves it.

She started nursing at night, so when my six month old was no longer nursing, my six month old would get a bottle at night and my toddler would nurse from the boob. And it helped me keep my supply up because I had a human being giving me the hormones I needed, and my toddler loved it. It was like a reinvention of our bonding. You know what's really weird about breastfeeding, you guys, It's a lot of its mental, which Kristen so lovingly taught me when we were first

hanging out. Now be five weeks old, but there's so much about it that is like if you're pumping and you're not, you know, producing a ton of milk, which was my problem in the beginning, there's something about going to a mental place and like imagining babies crying that near you, or meditating and going to a peaceful place because stress is actually one of the number one killers of milk, Number one. If you're pumping, it's quite literally

the only time you have to multitask. It's the only if you have like a hands see how many emails I can send. But if you look down and you're only getting an ounce, You've got to close the computer. You got to close the phone, close the computer. No, it's you've got to close it and really focus on it. It's a little event every time that it happens. Yeah, that was big for me because I used to do so many emails while pumping, and you were like, you have to just be like in a room by yourself,

turn the phone off, really like meditating. It's kind of a gift to you from the baby. And also like the hesitation about it, and I shouldn't do it in front of I don't know people or whatever, like and if guys are around, Like in my head, I'm just like why this is such? This is so asked backwards. We have the ability to do something that guys do not. We are not the ones that should feel ashamed, you know. We're the ones that should feel super confident and like,

I have this very special ability. I'm going to have to do it now. Every time I bring Albie to the pediatrician and he's like gained a pound. I've never felt more proud of something in my entire affing life, Like it's crazy, like I'm just like, holy mackerel, this kid is growing and and I feel just grateful that I'm able to breastfeed. I know it's not something that comes easy or naturally. We'll get into it, but holy you guys did not come easy or naturally for me.

It is a struggle. But and and and really, I like my personal opinion is like, hang in there if you're having problems hanging there through as long as you think you can hang in there. And when if your mind and body and heart and soul is telling you this is too much for me, I can't do this or I've hidden a breaking point than just to formula Yeah, there's nothing wrong with it. Oh my gosh, I was formula fat. I think you said you were too. Another question,

has did it change at all? And this might be two personal, but um, how have you did it change as far as like your intimacy with your husband, how you felt about your breast like while you were breastfeeding, Like because I've just started, like I just got the clearance from my doctor that it's all like okay to get back into Hay with my husband and I'm like, okay, so that's been happening, super scary. We'll also get to

that into another episode. But like, I had to wear a bra because I'm like, my boobs are like not my own anymore, Like they're not They're not how they were in my twenties, were like these were just like part of the sexual intimate experience. Like now they're just like, let's just pretend they're not. They're they're my sons, and

they're also the feelings in them change so much. So sometimes I would love it when he was very into my boobs, and other times, like when they were very full, I was like, I'm gonna have to wear a bra. It's not that these are off limits, but they are their own creatures. So the four of us are going to be having sex right now, you know what I mean. And it just it sort of is what it is, and it's all it's all individual. I slept in a bra. I slept in a bra for probably two years. I

slept in everyone. And I was the chick who never even wore bra in the day. Yeah, you guys, I used to have small boobs. I was like a hippie, no bra. So into it. Loved that. Look now it's like I've slept in a bra for a year and a half. My boobs are ginormous for me, which I don't like that. I know. I loved it. I had to get into it like you did. I just feel like they're just like you. I went from a thirty four A to a thirty six double D. Yeah, and that is real for me. I'm five feet tall, and

I loved it. I was like, this is so cool that I got in my life to have these boobs that are up to my chin that I and sometimes I would wear like a dress with when they were really full, without a bra because they were so taught.

But you know, one thing we haven't talked about is that early on, particularly when you just wake up in the middle of the night and you're just sopping wet everywhere, just waking up because you're if your boobs want to feed or your baby's crying and you don't get there quick enough and they release and you just have like sprinklers on your chest. It is so weird, so weird, like so weird, Like the whole thing is just totally primal. I can't even believe our bodies are able to do this.

I never even It's really just a fascinating, unbelievable I'm a little bit worried. I want to I'm a little bit worried when I stop. I'm a little bit worried. I've heard there's another hormonal shift that can happen when you stop breastfeeding. UM. But there's also good things that happen, like when you're breastfeeding. My ob told me that you're in a sort of pre menopausal state where your libido can go down. Your um body has sort of shut off in that way, UM, and that that could come back.

So that's a plus. But she has also learned me to the fact that your hormones can drop again, and some women get depressed that they won't be connecting if they have found a great connection with their kid through breastfeeding, that that might be something they miss. I think that's

all true. I did have a little bit of a drop UM, and I think again, it's just it's like a normal I'm just looking at the whole thing as an And now you have such perspective on it because your girls are like, well, you know, I'm so in it right now. I just can't see it yet, you know, I can't see I do miss it though it was my very favorite part. It is my very favorite part. Yeah yeah, and I'm and I know how hard it is and I know how um unique it is to be able to do it without problems. I really do.

Because I didn't have problems. I mean, getting mess titis three times is like, that's true, that's true. Yeah, I didn't have crack nipples in the beginning. But let me tell you that mass titis is no walk in the park. Um But I I felt like it definitely gave me more of a high and more of a calmness when I was breastfeeding. And when I dropped off, I didn't get depressed, which I'm definitely prone to do so I thought I would. I just got like two more irritable,

two percent less patient. And that was like at work, you know, when I was likewhere anywhere, when I was like, okay, let's get the show on the road, and they'd be like, wow, what's her problem, And I'm like, oh, that's that's my

lack of breastfeeding hormones. That calmed me down. You know, I did hear because breast milk is so amazing that like I think it's in China and I will have to look this up, but I think they like drink it and sell it as like a cure all for I am not like, I'm so my amazing nanny who I'm obsessed with, and she's helping me raise my child while I work on scandal, which is such a gift. She literally takes some bags in my breast milk home

for her acne and stuff like that. They feel so fortunate to be able to give her and make it loves I love her even more. I'm like, you can have my breast. I put it on pimples and put it in my eye. I put it cuts all over the baby. I put it all over everything any busy near drug and I have been told you guys for my trips and things like that. First time I'll be ever had a cold, she was like, instead of Saylene drops put breastbreast milk always um, he had a clogged

I ducked. I put breast milk in his eyes. Like breast milk really is. There are some properties about it that I don't think people can even haven't been understand why it's so healing. Might it got to the point where like my sister was in the house and she'd be chopping a vegetable and cut her finger and I would just go come here, and she knew the drill, and I would lift my shirt up and I would just squeeze milk right onto her directly, and she just rub it into her cut and go back to doing

what she was doing. And it was literally healed forty eight hours before it should have been. It was. It's crazy. And by the way, my skin was really clear when I was pregnant and breastfeeding, and then the minute I stopped. That was one thing about the hormones. I went back to, like, oh, pimples, I remember you because my hormones when they're at higher levels, my skin is just much more clear. Yeah, so the mirror, the miracle cures that it is. Breastfeeding is a big thing.

I'm glad to hear that you were also scorting your breast milk all over the world, because that's all I do. And the other thing I want to say is, like, so the one thing I was concerned about just from a vanity perspective, and I it's like embarrassing to even admit this, but like the main question I asked to their moms is like how much weight did you gain and when did you lose it? Because also we're on

camera for our livings. That kind of is vital. All of my friends were like, oh, I don't know what was this. It was that I realized I was just giving myself a comparison hangover to try to figure out what it would be. I gained forty seven pounds for each kid, and weirdly, I ate totally differently. I ate no sugar, one kid, ate anything I wanted the other. My body wanted to gain forty seven pounds. I realized that's a lot. I realized, like a doctor would be

like slow down, but it's what my body wanted. And then when I was breastfeeding the two years two and a half years, I was breastfeeding like for both kids um with a little break in the middle, I kept on thirty of those pounds. I did not lose the thirty pounds that I to get back to my normal weight till about three months after I stopped breastfeeding. And that is very normal. Some women say the minute I started breastfeeding, because the calories were coming out, I dropped

all my weight everything is normal. I kept thirty pounds and you can see it, like there's pictures of me and between you know, the two and a half years I was breastfeeding, I'm thirty pounds heavier. I don't. I never thought about it. It didn't occur to me. I was so much more obsessed with the weight before I had the baby that when I couldn't drop it when I was breastfeeding, I just couldn't. I was working out, I just it could it couldn't be done. It stopped

mattering to me. And then when I stopped breastfeeding is when I lost it. I'm like, there's two types of women. I mean, there's so many more types of women, but the ones the friends I have and are breastfeeding. Some as soon as they start breastfeeding, because breastfeeding burns a lot of calories in a day, and so for some women, breastfeeding causes them to lose all the baby weight very quickly. And some women, as you say, and I am one

of these, um, they hold on. They hold on to like a good at storage where you're making milk, and you just that actually that last ten or fifteen pounds is very hard to lose. So I don't know. And I've heard once you stop breastfeeding because I'm working out too and I'm eating so great and all this stuff. But I just have a lovely breastfeeding pad. But I do agree with you that I literally don't care. You

cannot care. I don't know why or what happened since becoming a mom, but I just I'm like, whatever, And if you care, if you're listening to this and you care, that's just no, it's not I can tell you right now, be confident you're beautiful. Stop caring. It's not worth it. The last thing I'll say is I did. I did feel like when I tried to get my weight under control while I was breastfeeding and just eat salads and stuff,

I wouldn't have enough milk. I had to have bagels and right, breastfeeding needs carbohydrates and it needs and a lot of people have noticed that if they do too much cardio, their milk supply and I don't know if that's me, but I'm definitely using it as excuse to not do cardio. So I haven't done cardio at all, just because I'm telling myself I'm one of those people

that when I do cardio produce enough. There's some sort of acid that can build up when you do a lot of cardio that makes your milk like turn a little bit and the baby will reject it. That's what my bill told me. Also, later into breastfeeding, I found out so yes, so you need carbs. You have to

have carbs. Don't deny yourself carbs. And by the way, if you if you are just eating salads because you're worried about your weight and you're also stressing because you're not breastfeeding enough and you're not producing enough milk, take personal responsibility and just start eating some bagels. Don't be confused about both of those, and stay on the diet, like or just drink that. I keep going for this oatmeal stout beer, yes, which is also a big helper

and milk supply. I mean I literally I was like, don't tell me that this is what's gonna get my milk out. And I literally I accidentally ate a handful of fenna gric from like the farmer's market because someone was like, look at these little um sprouts. They smell like maple syrup. And I was like, I'll tay a handful, and like two hours later, I was like, oh my god, my boods are so much, and I realized it was,

which is a huge help. And milk supply also, there's there's amazing companies and teas out there that have a bunch of herbal stuff that you can take for milk supply um, and oatmeal, beer and bagelsum, which also helps to my extra fifteen pounds in Christen's thirty that is

now gone. But look at you. Well now I just run back, run after the toddlers, and it's like, no big deal, right right, But there was oh one thing I wanted to say, another weird thing, and you would we would have to ask my o bi and maybe you can like site whatever this is at the end of the podcast. But so when I was doing Bad Mom's one, which would mean that my daughter was um

like nine months. My youngest daughter was nine months, so I was already just pumping exclusively, I noticed she was rejecting it, and I and and I also noticed it's kind of smelled funny, like like it was turned. And I called my obie and she said, oh, yeah, you might be maybe this is the running thing as well. Producing too much of whatever this acid or hormone is and it makes the milk taste sour. She said, the way that you deal with it is you boil it.

So I would then, because I wasn't doing enough with this goddamn pump all day, I would pump five times a day. Then I would bring it home and I would boil it to get whatever the ends time out exactly, and then I would give it to her. So there, Look, whatever problem you think you have, there is an answer out there for it. Somebody has gone through it, because like I was for three months in the middle, I was boiling my milk every day after I pumped it.

If breastfeeding is something to you that is a huge priority, and it is a priority. Like when I was really freaked out in the beginning, I had a lactation expert come to my house and say, look, this is a full time job. Only you can decide if it's a full time job you want to be taking right now, because you have other full time jobs being this kid's mom, scandal, whatever it is. She's like, breastfeeding is a huge commitment. But I have been really really happy that I have

stuck with it so far. Um, but it's a huge commitment. And you have to if you're gonna do it. You you have so many avenues that you can go down to seek help, to get support. There's like letch a leagues, there's groups of you know, you can find groups of other moms to talk to. You can I'm sure, get a electation person on the phone for hopefully not that much money, and we'll find sites for you guys to be whatever weird thing is happening, It's happened to someone else.

That's one thing I take so everything with motherhood. Yeah, I take so much comfort in that. And when I first got pregnant and I was like, oh my god, I'm pregnant, is nervous, Like this is crazy. I just kept reminding myself, like Christen, calm down, be humble. You are not the first person to ever have a baby.

Every single thing that could happen good or bad with breastfeeding or babies has happened before, which means there is a human who knows how to deal with it and you you just need to spread a wide net of a support system. There will be someone to help you. Ladies and gentlemen. Kristen Bell Genius Glorious Human Breastfeeding advocate. I miss it so much. I do so much. I told you the other day I was holding my girlfriends, I'm going to miss it, and you guys loved it.

I effing hated it, so like we're gonna go through my turnaround on this whole thing, but like now, I I you would. The crap that I went through to be a successful breastfeeding mom um was so hard, and to be on this side of it and actually say that I like it and that, oh my gosh, I might miss it, like it's so much. I miss it.

So when I was holding this two month old baby and everybody else was out of the house and I was like taking a nap with him, every he started rooting, and the only thing that was going through my head was like, how long will I be the weird one in the friend group? If I let this baby just soothe on my boob right now? He will Erica hate me? Eric As the baby's mom, will Erica hate me? Will she think this is gross? If my group of friends finds out that I nurse this baby to keep it soothed,

how long will they make fun of me? Because I really wanted to. I went through all these things. I think they came home right before I made the decision to pull my boob out. But I swear to God, I was going to do it because you loved it. Wet nurses exist, It's okay to nurse each other's babies, and I want to nurse all the babies. I'm honestly feeling like I'm having a letdown right now, and I love it. My baby. You probably around you just smell it.

Thank you so much for being on Katie's grip. Thanks for having really I love Katie's script. Hi everybody, and welcome my dear, dear, longtime friend and makeup artist Jamie Greenberg, who is a mom of three guys. Count them one to three and I've only had one and I can't even imagine doing three. Um, and Jamie is here talking about the awesome choices she has made to breastfeed not

to breastfeed her child. So take us through your kids, how many you have, and you're your experience with preast meeting, okay, So, and I won't get caught up too much. And by the way, hi everybody, Hi, I don't get caught up too much. And so the first one was, like, you know, the most exciting, but you know this, and I'm I'm like a lot of their but like my mom was sick with cancer. Oh my god, it was like just

so heavy. Your mom was very, very sick with cancer and you were very very pregnant and it was the end of her life. Yes, And it was like this weird like circle of life thing. And I had the baby and then the baby swallowed maconium, which is super normal. Guys,

those don't know, Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sometimes babies are distressed in the birth canal and so they poop their first poop, which poop isn't called poop when it's your first poop, it's called maconium, and the baby inhales it in the birth canal, and it can be very scary and um dangerous to the baby, traumatic because it's like a tary substance sticky. So a lot of kids swallow a little bit. It's pretty normal. But my kid, you know, being the

being that she was, she had swallow. They had seen at cedars and a long collapsed Yeah yeah, I don't know. You didn't know this, yes, her long collapse. And so it was like, how did they know? Did they know that in there or she came out coming out all of a sudden, like ten people in my room. I'm like, what guy, it's a learning hospital, but like this, and literally they took her out, put her under the light. There was a lot of commotion, and then everyone in

the room left. My doctor like delivered my placenta, and then that he left, and then there was like a man sweeping and I'm like, what's going on? Wait, so the baby was taken away from you and yeah, and it was did you know that was normal or abnormal? I didn't know because it was my first time, and I feel like it was just like in the I was like in the moment, like what's going on? And I knew something was bad. You know, you'd get that feeling something was bad, but I didn't know what it was.

And we just sat there for like two hours. No one went to tell my parents what happened in the waiting room, like nobody knew what was going on. The baby had been born, nothing and for forty eight hours it was touch and go because they were trying to war up. Yes, why I never told you this? Why why I didn't tell you why? Because I was you were going to try to have a baby. And you were like, you're going to tell that and that's why you're a good friend. Yeah, I would never tell that.

This is very scary. Yes, so literallys was touching go whether or not she was going to live. Did not see her for a full day. My husband. They took him upstairs and made him do everything sign pa. He's like, I don't know. They're like, do you have to sign the paper to do this for her to get this breathing machine for this if we have to take her medavac to did and he was like saw ghosts never cried so hard with my husband, like we're both crying both. He came down and told me the story. I'm stuck

in the room. I'm like, no one's telling me what's going on. Then the next day when we woke up, they were like, I was like, is she going to die? And they're like it's gonna We're not sure what's going on.

We're trying to figure things out, but no one could give me an answer, you know, because nobody knew so they could get her on any of the breathing machines, like it wasn't working, and I'm thinking, oh, this baby is going to be fried, Like so she was in the Nike for five weeks, and I was in the Nike for five weeks, and so guess what I had to do? Pump for five weeks? And did you I pumped for five weeks. They're like the only thing you can do, and the only control I had was to pump,

you know what. It was the only thing that was like connecting you to your for ten days, like just went up to the first of all, she was a goliath because she was in the Nike, and everyone in the Nick is a premi. So she's like a full term big baby. Greenberg makes big babies. My husband six six. She's a big, tall husband. So I moved to the sofa tel. So meanwhile, my mom's dying of cancer. She's like, why can't anything go kidding me? My husband was like on the path to do like directing. So he had

booked a national commercial for silk milk. Of course, try to take it our business. You have to take it. When that door comes knocking, you need that money. Was like, you've got to get out of here. So he left after he had he did the casting over Skype. Thank god that existed. He was supposed to leave right after the birth, but he stayed a couple of days when we didn't know if it was gonna be a real thing or not. And my mom like, you didn't know

if she was gonna live. Yeah, yes, So I'm speechless. So then my mom my husband left and humping and like, milk is coming in, Like so when I first started, So they came in, they could put the machine on you, like it was like colostrum, like barely anything came out, and then stuff along is the first milk that ever comes out of your you And it's not really like milk yet. It's more like a really really thick, yellowish white kind of cream. Yeah. They call it like liquid gold.

And it's called liquid gold because it supposedly has all the nutrients in it that the baby should need to live and survive until your milk comes in. It has vitamins in it and and all that stuff. So were they rushing your colostrum milk up to her, yes, but they still they were just collecting, right, and they were like, this is the best thing you can do. And I felt like it was the only thing I could get. So you were like working that pump. So my mom and I stayed at the Sophie Tell for about five

sheet in treatment at the same time. She was like like she was like it was like bad. Like she had had this thing stuck and put into her stomach before she came out because she the tumors had grown so much that she had trouble digesting and breathing and eating and everything. So she needed like a valve to

kind of like release the pressure in her stomach. So my mom was walking around with this bag and like and a and a like tube and she would carry a Lulu lemon bag because you could throw them away, but they weren't like paper bags. So she was carrying around this pump thing sticking out of the side of her stomach and a lovely and a turban. I pumped so much milk. I was so hormonal. I remember one time I pumped and took it off and I spilled

the whole thing. And you would have thought so many died, except that that's something I really shouldn't be saying it. You can, but I can take it. It was like she died and I freaked on her, and I freaked on I got so I never have I was just a lot of emotion, I think anyway, you think you're sitting next to your kid and your mom is dying. It was answer and just delivered a baby for the first time ever. Your husband's awaiting. Actually you're allowed. You

really get to know yourself. But I remember I was my friend, one of my best friends, Jamie, came to stay and we would like camp out, tailgate, hang out and then make you and then go back to this all day and then go back to the sofa tail and watch Jersey Short like three in the morning. I watched every episode of that show, every episode of The Jersey Shore. Shout out to the Jersey Shore. I love you like that got me through like the darkest time.

Sometimes you just need like every kind of mind number. That was with Simon Garbage. Yeah you do serial the podcast, Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, great, great choice. Yeah. I pumped, I pump, pump, pump, pump, pumped, and then then they then they fed it to her and all egid was pump. I was a cow. It was Pumped City USA, and then did you make a lot I made a lot um and it was great. The pump was great. I remember on the flight then I had then I was I got her out at a five weeks,

and they were like, your mom's gonna die. I was like such a crossroads, Like so I had to take a five week old and fly to Maryland and they didn't have a pump. Jet Blue didn't have anywhere to plug in the pump, so I had to use a hand pump. So I was like in the corner, like jacking my own. Yeah, of course, like jacking off your hand pump yourself. It's like you're jacking off your boob. It's like your cow's utter, like how you would imagine a farmer milking a cow. And you're like, which is

a very similar motion to jerking off? Is what you're doing to your own boob. It's all the same, It's all the same thing. So and then we got to Maryland and I, you know, my mom was supposed to die like the week we got there. And it was so weird because Lenny was still on an oxygen machine. Were you able to breastfeed her at this point or no? So then the latch so then she wouldn't match because I feel like she had been five weeks of bottles. They say there's all these rules about like don't get

you know, if you're in the perfect situation. You don't give them a bottle until they've really gotten the hang of latching onto a nipple. Yes that's yours, because otherwise you'll never get them back. So that was really frustrating, and just being a first time mom. I just remember, besides the state of my mother, just as a human being, I was so insecure as a first time mom with like everything, Like I had no idea what was going on, and I had no one to like kind of like

chat with, you know what I mean. So I felt like so lone. And even one of my mom's best friends was a labor and delivery nurse and when I told her that I was thinking about stop stopping the breast feeding and the pumping, she like shamed me. This is a big thing. It's a big especially in l A, but probably everywhere just like women and sadly nurses and doctors shaming women into making a choice of like I'm done with this, this isn't for me, this isn't for

my family. Is just like really badly looked upon for whatever reasons. It's crazy to me. It's so I wasn't a breastfed. I was a breakfet You you're rock star. I'm a rock star. I mean, yes, okay, so you told her? Did you quit during? I mean, so, first of all, the fact that you guys make milk under this sort of stress and the pressure is insane. To go to Maryland though, the milk started to like it was really hard, and I was like a wreck. And my husband's like, you're a wreck, Like, just stop with

the pumping, star. It's such a you know, the pumping, with the cleaning and the thing. Oh my god, you guys, when you pump, you have to clean eighty seven hundred pump parts in between every single time you feed, and if you're feeding ten times a day, do you know how many dishes that is to do? Oh to remove the laugh flap and then you and you don't know where there's so many parts and it's very difficult, it is. And then you're like, I throw it in the microwave

to like demon it's always about disinfecting. Oh my god, it got dropped on the floor. Blah blah blah. It's insane. It was so I was just like probably the last bit of stress you could possibly. I didn't take it anymore, and like I just stopped. And so, how did you stop it from coming out of your boobs. Because this is what I'm curious about. Like when I was wrapped it as tight as I could, I put with what bandage I wore sports bras. Cabbage was the last go around.

I hear this, people put cabbage on their boobs to stop milk and the Similarly, if you're an overproducer, like you're someone that makes too much milk, um and it's painful, you're supposed to like a regular cabbage, yes, straight up like cold Gelson's like as is just like peel the leaves off and stick them in your bra That's what I did. And you smell like coast law Like it's like like kind, I know, a little nibble here. Wow.

And so was it painful? You know? I don't I remember, Like I felt like you kind of felt a little feverish sometimes and then you would just take like a title and all. Yeah. And but it was way less um of a process that I thought it was gonna be. Also, my boobs are the biggest boobs you've ever so you do have. I've seen Jamie Broomberg's boobs and they were impressively large. They were renting with her. I think they were like, um, we're like four, like cripple g or

something back then. So I used to show everybody where were you when she was that so at about six weeks, but I had a lot of milk or so she had about two months of breast milk and that was it with her. And what did you say to the labor and delivery nurse when you were like, I'm wanting to quit? Did you? She just that was the front of your mom. She just didn't have like she was like, no, breast monks the best thing. And I was like, okay, but I just felt like I was so stressed out

just with my mom. And you know, it's like Jamie there of course, but like I was in such a just shitty state as like a human being. Like I just was like everything was my life had been turned around. Was like I had a baby, I had my mom, and I was just like trying to your the basement where Marlan. By the way, Jamie Riomberg has three children, and her third is named Babe, which is the greatest name for a girl I've ever met my entire life. And Babe that was your mom's nickname. Yeah, they called

her babe because her name was Ruth. So, so Simon is your boy? Sim into my little key's hair? Three? Yeah, and did you breastfeed with him? So I did him. He latched in the hospital right away because I was like, did you go into him his labor being like that pregnancy, being like, when Simon's here, I'm going to breastfeed him. I was like, I don't know what I'm gonna do.

I kind of were on the fence. Yeah, but the minute he came, he latched on right away, and I was like, wow, like that's not was what happened to plenty you always put in that position. And because this was like my first birth now, because that first one was not normal, like none of them it was normal. And when I remember when I had him and then he like everything just when according to you have face traumatic stress, like when you were having Simon that you

were worried. Oh my god, yes, and doctor Catch shout out to Dr Coats, he will. I was like, everyone knows to be there, you have to be there. I will say this too. He would he would be in the hospital every day. He would just come check on on Lenny every day in the hospital, and he didn't know if I was going to be there. But I was there every day because I camped out. I knew every story. I was like a caseworker, like I loved you. Yeah,

we were like I was worried everybody. I'd bring in like sprinkles cupcakes, and but he came in every day. But okay, So with Simon, it was like a latched immediately to do this. So then I started doing it. It was great, and then I started like getting really like just like bloody, and I got mistited how many times, like I felt like every time we'd have like three days of greatness and then it would get like gorge. I can like feel it, and I was like, what

the funk? And then we went I went for six weeks and I was like, I just want to do three months. I just want to do three months. And my husband looked at me one day and you know you, like I was like I had a lot of milk. And every time I would go to like I'm like I'm gonna go out. I'm gonna go to Whole Food and get smoothies just to get out, and I would just leak everywhere with pads and stuff. And then I would just so I kind of just stayed in my bed. I felt like job of the hut, like I never

left and I became. I didn't become postpartum. Your house abound compressed, like just so sad, you know. And so I was like, then I decided to go back to her. You felt like you were a nursing jail, which is a real thing. That is I'm so glad we're going to have talked to her. But Linda Hannah, who I know you used, Yes, I called her and she was she gave me the best advice because again, everyone tells you have to breastfeed. There's not one person telling you

can't breastfeed. That's why I'm talking to you. I love Linda, she said. She came into the house and we were trying, and she she was like, you do have big boobs. And I was like, okay, good, thank you, because nobody was. I was like, isn't it it's kind of hard like and she's like, no, no, no, it's hard. And your nipples aren't like as they could be. You could try and nip my head inverted. Yeah, you had invert hell

hell on Earth. But you know, she said to me, and maybe this has been something that she's learned since you and Simon. I don't know, but she came in and she said, if you want any prayer in hell of doing this, you gotta get out of nursing jail. Because what I was doing was every single time I nursed, I would go into my kid's nursery, sit in this chair, not do it in front of anyone, being a dark room all by myself, a million times a day. And she was like, what do you think you're gonna be

stuck in here for? Like, if you really want to do this, you gotta be on You've got to be able to do it while standing, You've got to be able to do it while laying down. You gotta do it covered, uncovered, out in a restaurant in front of people. It has to be a part of your life and not a big deal. Otherwise there's no prayer in hell doing it. And that's okay if you don't want, Like, if that's not for you, then that's not for you.

But if you really are gonna take this into a longer term thing than the first four weeks when you plan to just be home on maternity leave, and you really want to take this out into the world, you've gotta be able to do it anywhere, any time, under any circumstances. So I was a nursing jail and I

hated it. Same thing. So you were depressed in bed, not really leaving the house because you were leaking everywhere, and every three days you would have you would have good days and then there would be like a horrible day and it would be great. And then I'm like, oh, let me call her, and she came in. She helped me. She showed me different ways to hold the baby, which was great, Like you could lie you could be super tired and have that baby lie on bed with you,

which is great. So I had all these new tools on how to do it better. And then your husband says to you. And then my husband says to me, which is great because a lot of husbands they don't know and they're like, you have to breastfeed, and it's like, you know, you're just saying that, you're being like everybody else. But my husband was like, stop breastfeeding, like stop it. You're going to be so much more yourself yourself. And I was like, because Jamie, you're very much someone to like.

You are very active, like you're out and about you do a million things in a day. You have a lot of friends, Like and I'm not saying that's like four or against breastfeeding, but I mean, I can't even imagine you home in bed for like a long period of time. That's insane. I don't even Gemini like a typical gem and I would like split personalities, but like that was what I saw my other my other side, Like I was like, I'm a sad little person. So he was like, and why do you think you listen

to him? Or why do you think because I needed someone to throw me a lifeline, Like I needed somebody to just like said it was okay. And I'm like, if my husband says it's okay, it's okay. There's such a stigma to it not being okay. I honestly think it's the only reason why I didn't quit. It was because I was like, like, I feel like you almost have to be more confident of a person. It's exactly that's to say that's not for me or I'm not

doing that. You almost have to be. It wasn't very braver and more confident to do that, because it was the only thing standing between me and quitting was that I was going to feel embarrassed in a shame. You're still going. I'm still going. But I just think that's really brave of you. Like I just really think that for you to go around be like, no, this is

how long I did. That's what I did. Done, yea, So Simon, I did that and when I was done, it literally was like a light switch of happiness, like all the happy juice that I am normally for you who cared? So the third one, you know, you, babe, I was like baby and getting the boob not for a second, and you made that choice before you went into labor. Everything you knew you were not doing this, kid,

And you know what it was. It was the evolution of me because I was kind of to go from Lenny to Simon to m babe and for you to grow right, seeing motherhood is so much about growing confident in your choices, thinking to your gun, I'm still such as in that way, I was like, oh should I take that class? Oh I need to do this, Should I sign up for that? Oh you're doing this? Oh I should be doing that to me right now the

first time. So you sign up for everything, you drive yourself in saying the kid has no fucking clue what's going on with anything. He just doesn't care. And it was just like and then by the third kid, you're just like, I know exactly what's best for me and for my baby. Thank you very much, thank you very much.

And it's so when you told the nurses, Cedars, I'm not breastfeeding this kid after you got birth gave birth to her, which, now what happens when a lot of times in vaginal child birth, the baby comes out and they put the baby right on your chest to go find your nipple to suckle. Is that something that did

or didn't happen? That breastfeeding wasn't in your plan. You just gave me the baby, held the baby, then took it and cleaned it, and they were like, are you breast I feel like I was asked, like seventeen times you breastfeeding? Yeah? No, and there was like and were you proud? Every time he said now, I was like nope, because now I have the confidence and you're like, you're wrong,

you know. And then when I remember being in the room and they wheel in the they wheel in the breast pump to have you started breath pumping the colossroom and I was like nope, and I put up my hand and she's like what and I was like no. And they start going into the spield and I'm like, this is my third kid, I'm not breastfeeding, and they were like it was kind of like they were like, oh, we got you, like everything changed or when you said

you have three kids. I was like, I felt like I was bullied, like you you know, so the first didn't count, the second I tried it, and the third I was like funck no. And then I have two friends that didn't didn't They both have two kids. They didn't breastfeed at all. They're very confident women that like don't care. I like, you have not care what people think.

You have to not care what people think. And that's probably what a lesson in motherhood because it is really I have never been tested and I only have a three and a month old, so I don't see where this is going. But like, I just mean, even in history and a half months, I'm a people pleaser and I need to care what people think. I can't believe how much motherhood calls upon yourself to just make decisions and not care what people think and be proud of them.

And I can't even imagine being in theaters and just telling them you're not breastfeeding because I was breastfeeding and it was so pushed on me. Oh great, good, Yes, it's the best thing for them. But I'm like, I mean even when I walk into my pediatricians office now with my kid, um, they'll be like, oh, this is an only breastfeed baby. Yeah yeah, And I'm like, who is really into breastfeeding? And she kind of gives me shit about it. And then every time her kid's sick,

I'm like, oh, he's sick again. It hasn't been sick in six months. You know, it becomes like a whole thing, the whole thing. Were like, well, breastfeed babies are never sick. Not true. My kid was sick in the first week of his life. The bottom line, I can honestly say, the breastfeeding at this point like is I have to be very careful. I talked about this with my nanny a lot, but like breastfeeding a lot right now is about me and my ego. Well that's what I was

going to say. So when I had Babe, there were a couple of nights that my hormones were like, bitch, give her a boob, give her a boob. So I would give her the boob and I'd be sitting there like I didn't want to tell my husband. I was literally a secret slipping the kitty and wasn't nothing was coming out. I still have milk and you go wet nurse your baby right now? Are you kidding? You're still dried up? I'm still no way, there's still now. I don't know what to do, like cabbage or behind them

this time too. Yeah. My doctor's like sometimes it just takes a long time for it to like go away. And I was like, okay, So I was giving a babe like I think I think maybe five times. I would secretly give it to her and then I would like slap my face and like snap out of it. You don't want this, you know, because I felt the voice was taking over my head being like you should really really give her a boom, and I'd be like,

oh my god, who's saying that? Like in my mind, I was like, just like do you think that is like your womanly some sort of nature versus nurture? Like who is it is? It? Is it society telling you to do it or is it your body has It's like you you know, you're you're wearing this armor of like defending yourself all the time. And then you're like, maybe I shouldn't give her the boom. So I did that a couple of times, and then I was like no, because I started to think about because she latched on

right away too. And she's like an eater. I mean, she probably weighs more than Alby. She definitely does. She's like, I'll be is in the sixth person, but how much does he twelve and a half pun? Oh my god, she weighs thirteen point seven and she's only two months. So but you have big babies, big babies, but she um, yeah. I mean, and I just felt like, has formula been so easy for you? Like, oh my everything compared to

what's the first six weeks? What's amazing is that you're on this show, like you're on Katie's crib talking about that you've had the experience Otherwise, did the first six weeks of babes life look so different to you as far as what was easier? And day that because my babies, you know, they wake up, they're hungry. This you can't get a schedule. I put I put Simon on a schedule. He was on a schedule, but it was really tough because sometimes they don't you don't know how much they eat.

And then it's like it's much easier when you're seeing how many ounces is they're getting in the day and so you know they're going to sleep at night because they've had the right amount of ounces in the day where you know they're full. Yeah, and we had like the night breastfeeding. You're guessing I too, my nurses like

did you eat well? I'm like, I think so. I mean I literally have no idea he drank two ounces or six have no idea because you could just be on there for ten minutes sucking and have a good time but not swallowing or exactly the whole thing. When you're like you're tickling their feet and blowing their ear to wake up, You're like, you're on the job. You've got to eat. You know you're gonna wake up in

two hours when I want to be sleeping. I do have to say, though, like I go back and forth two ways, like one I don't I think I would have quit had I not felt the shame. But I also feel I also have never felt more proud of something in my life, mostly because I got through something that was very physically painful to me. Breastfeeding for me, was far more painful than labor by like leaps and bounds. So the fact that I I'm just probably I looked

it in the face and I'm still doing it. But now it's like this whole thing like well, how long did you breast? How long did you breast? Yes? Yes, And it's always a competition between mothers, and I think that and I think this is only gonna I think that breastfeeding is just a window into what the rest of it will look like. Just women are probably competitive with like well, every how are how old were they when they started to walk? What school? Oh he's still

in diapers? Like whatever next thing is? It's preparing. I mean, I've got I'm not someone who partakes in any sort of like troll rebuttal or, but I've gotten in like a handful of like fights. There was a fight with a woman at my um that it wasn't about breastfeeding, that was actually about having a nanny. Yeah, but still these are you shaming me for working? And I got into a fight. We want to do an episode about

working really it's another struggle. And then um, but then, I mean another good friend of mine was shaming me about the not breastfeeding and was horrified, and I was just like, it really did take me three babies to like, finally, I feel like I know myself so well. I've never heard you so yeah you wanted to ask you on this. I you were like you were just you knew exactly what the right thing was for you, and there was no It was great and it is great, and I'm

so happy I did it. And she's been the easiest of all. My baby is she is. I just feel and I feel like, who knows if it's just all coinciding with each other, like me being more confident, you know, it probably is all a little a little of all,

but like I just I don't know. I just I'm like so proud of myself for not doing it and just sticking to my guns and like just you know, and and I hope that there's women out there, like listen, you could have had I read an article about this woman who had was getting shamed and she had breast cancer and couldn't and then she would tell them, and it was like, oh, by the way, I had cancer. I can how do you feel now? You don't know what's going on in people's lives. You don't know if

they're dealing with postpartum depression. You don't know if they have other stressors going on where they can't produce milk. I know, someone would really been postpartum depression who was on really you know, made the choice not to breasting because she was on a so many drugs. Yeah, and they're just it's it makes things I think some women, Like for me, I became depressed breastfeeding, so it wasn't

helping me. And the bottom line is if I can present myself to my child with they're very susceptible to energy. So if I don't have fabulous energy around my new baby, that is a problem problem. So why don't I not breastfeed and be the happiest little energizer bunny that I am and just like give that baby some love now that's all. She's still two bottles in the night, Yeah, she's literally all the night nurses that came in were like,

this is the easiest baby. She gets fed at ten thirty, three thirty and seven, So they would only feed her at three thirty. My god, she's almost bigger. The night she pretty much is. Yeah, the other nights she had to stretched to five fifteen, and I was like, oh, usually two months. But that's what I'm saying. The champion for which formula are using. So that's a whole other thing. I'm getting the goat milk from Denmark. What a simla. I love the Women's organic. Yeah, I love you that.

I have another friend that uses that. She loves that. That was that they didn't have that one n congests. I think she does. I'll ask which all like organic, Earth's best from foods, Like, there's so many options. In fifteen years, your kids are going to be shoving cocaine and we eat up their and you're gonna be like, but I got in the German formula. It's like no, and I love it a lot of women. It's kind of like, you know, like what is in formula that makes it good of it? It's in vitamins. Like I

just don't have an idea. I mean, that's another scary thing. I have no idea what I'm pumping into my baby, but it's working well. Whatever, Like did I eat like like I had, I had a fruit roll up foot long daily for good ten years as well as a kudos barring Come on, I mean I still eat oreos by the reg I don't. That's what I'm saying. Like you look at your baby and you treat this baby so well, It's like, why don't we do that with ourselves?

Like it's always like I know this one mom who like flew in the goat milk and she was like a chain smoker, you know, And I'm like I love this, Like I just love the dichotomy and like this the motherhood. It's just it's the hippocrisy of everything. It's like I'm honestly really scared right now to like stop breast, Like I don't know whether that is going to be for me.

It's very hard because it's more I love it and now I'm emotionally attached to it, and now my eager is attached to it because I'm proud that I do it and I'm proud that I made it through and I'm proud that it Like now that I've made it here, it's also gotten easier, Like it doesn't take thirty minutes and now it takes twelve you got it down, and I also have become slightly addicted to It's the only time in my day where I stop, especially when I'm

on things like that. It's like, excuse me, I have to go breastfeed feed my kid because it's the time where I get to see him if I'm working, and I get to connect to him, which I'm going to have to find a way to do that when I'm not breastfeeding. I just like, what am I going to know? Is he going to tell me? Am I going to decide? I go to New York next week, I'm leaving him alone, like I is he gonna be done with it? Then? No,

you'll see and he might. And a lot of times kids tell you they don't want it, and it's what I've heard, You'll you'll see and when the time is right, and maybe you'll have a little depression after you That's what I've heard. A lot of women hormones drop off the again, of course because you feel that or you just felt totally. My friend who after three days the best, so my friend Becky also she stopped breastfeeding it six weeks.

She ran through the streets, inns and harmony like getting out of this house, Like, please let someone else be responsible for feeding my kid. I don't want to do this on my own anymore. I would do other things and leave the house and be a great mom. And when I leave the house, I'm a better mom when I'm home, you know what I mean. Like she had that whole thing going on, but I think it's really and I just wish women would unite and just like

just respect everybody's struggle. It's just like we don't criticize. I mean, I guess we do. What am I saying? Reality television and an all time high, but like we totally judge everything that everybody does, that everybody wears, what everybody buys, what everybody eats, what everybody you know, it's just like just mind your business and like we're all doing our best. That's the bottom line. We are all

doing our best. And when you're a mother of worries, yeah, just like you know, you've got to make it work. If you decide that breastfeeding is not the choice for you, how and you're giving them a bottle and you are a person who's breastfed and bottle fed, do you feel that same, Like is there a bond or connection in breastfeeding that you feel as missing and bottle feeding or do you still feel like I still feel like because

you're still sitting there with the baby. I mean, if you want, you could take off your shirt and take off their clothes and have that skin to skin, which I think is nice. But like with Lenny, I never got to do the skin to skin. They're like so she was for the first couple of days, you know, And it's like, if you adopt a child, you don't get that, and you might you can't breastfeed if you adopt a child. Like, there's so many things that like,

there's no like one rule. So I felt like every time I'm a little I mean even now at three thirty in the morning when I'm feeding her about it, all I do is stare at her. I'm so present. I'll tell you that choice. It was never as present with the other two. This one, I breathe every breath she takes. I am so in love with her. I never had that feeling when I had the other two. I was like, it took me a while to get

to know who they were. This one the minute it came out eyes, I'm like a bit how you do and the way I love to hear them Because I wasn't connected to act year. Simon took me like six months. I had like rates of like until the lightning hit where I was like, oh, I love you and I knew I loved him somewhere like I don't want to say, but it was the first six weeks I was like, who is this stranger in my house? And what have

you done with my life? Like this how I felt, And then all of a sudden, I was like, oh no, I love you more than anything I've loved anything in my entire life, and now I'm in trouble because if anything ever happens to you, I'm not going to and my happiness lies in you. Yeah. So I think nightmare like the bonding is when you're changing them, when you're bathing them, when you're beaving the battle, anytime I'm one on one with her, even now with the tummy time.

So you feel so connected to her and you didn't at all, so connect, more connected than my own. Yeah. But I think it has a lot to do with me too, and just having the confidence in myself because I'm also a people pleaser and like my whole and I find I feel this has changed me in my whole life, like just being able to like put my foot down for something and not like just crumble under

the pressure. You know. Thank you so much, my God, so women everywhere and families, thank you, thank you, thank you. From Katie's Crib I love Kati's The breastfeeding journey isn't over, guys. We have a whole other episode dedicated to breastfeeding where we're going to talk to Lynda Hannah who is a lactation expert and consultant and literally saved my boobs. So let's get ready for the next episode of Katie's Crib Track.