What To Do When You’re Having Two

How Like, I was like, we just have to do a whole entire episode about this because I just need to know. I have a lot of questions. And I have two very very close friends in my life, Graham Sibley and Maryland fo who are parents of twins. And it was getting uncomfortable how much we hang out together socially, and I have all these burning questions I want to ask them. So I was like, let's just get them on the podcast so I can get it done. So welcome Marlyn and Graham. Um let me tell you, guys

quickly a little bit about them. Maryland is a brilliant screenwriter. She wrote and co produced The Sisterhood of Night in two fifteen, she won an award at the Screenplay of Tribeca Film Festival. Her recent feature screenplay, The Honor List, was released by lions Gate. Graham is basically the greatest actor I have ever known. That is true. And he is in I Am a theater company with me. We go back a hundred million years. His resume is incredible. You can I AMDBM if you care. He's literally the

actor I wish I could be. Um. Period. They are a power couple and now they are power parents two twins, Lion and kp which I love their names. I love them. Um, let's get the heck into this. Um. How do we know each other? Graham? Simply other than I am? And is that how we met? Yeah? We met that thirteen years ago when you're almost going to quit being an actor. The first time I saw you was on your first date with Adam. What is that true? I'm pretty sure?

Well was it you and Adam were walking in Venice? Oh yeah, Oh no, that was like our first like sleepover date. So maybe that was like the third date because I keep it classy. No no judgment on a women who go home first date, like go for it. But that's not what happened with that. I think that was the first time I'd seen you and I was like, oh that I knew Adam and I was like, I think that's hey, you know, and you had long hair, and you were riding a skateboard and you remember the skateboard.

He had a skateboard when you met him. Do no, I just heard this story skateboard. So enter in Maryland. Thank god, you guys. When you have like a dear, dear bestie dude and he brings along a woman into your life, that is exceptional. The relief is massive because when a dear, dear bestie dude of yours brings in not that it is really a bummer. So Maryland, you have exceeded, gone above and yawned. It's like Bigram, go away. I'd like to hang out there. Um, how long have

you guys been together? Has been two years? I think it's been more than that. I think it's been three. Well, who knows, because you have twins, you don't You were married last December and then we were together for I guess a year and a half before that, right, so almost three years. Does twins run in either of your families? So we learned a lot through this um journey of twindom. And identical twins don't run genetically. Wow, So it's like

a literal phenomenon. It is. Identical twins are a little real phenomenal because fraternal twins is genetic and when you hear about identical twins happening, that can be through like if you took fertility aid or like fraternal twins would be oh okay. So identical twins is literally like the egg either splits between the first and the third day, the third and the fifth day, or the fifth and the seventh day, and there are different kinds of winds.

So we have monodi twins, which means that it's split between the five And I think, yeah, now, I'm so says in Maryland, because you got pregnant later in life, which is so huge and inspiring for women out there. You had frozen your eggs before correct and you did

not use them. Still him eyes, still paying the monthly be to keep him onny right, and you, guys, I met later in life, you got engaged, you were like, well, in terms of pregnancy, we're what's known as a geriatric pregnancy, which is a disgusting, real scientific term, and you were like, so we should just get on this thing because we feel like we want to be parents, and you started trying. Yeah, And at your wedding, which I was at, is tell

the rest of the story. How does it go? Well, we knew we were pregnant around eight weeks, but when we first went in to see my obi, she only saw one. So for a certain amount of time we knew we were pregnant, but we thought we were having one. Fast forward just a little bit of time. We're getting ready for our wedding weekend, all of our families coming in, and about two hours before my mom arrives, I have another fall up appointment, where this time she sees two.

So were you there, Graham? Were you in the room where you by yourself? So she went to go pick because we were going to go for our honeymoon, and so she went to go pick up a prescription for U T. I guess when you're traveling women who are pregnant the US or something. And so I didn't go to this appointment because I was like, you're just gonna pick up the prescription and whatever. And so she came home and I was like, you know, wedding weekend, like

this is huge deal. Families all coming into town from all over. It was like even in the morning, and nobody knew you were pregnant. Your family didn't know, right, No, no one knew. No one knew. And we didn't want to ruin that surprise because we didn't want to take

the thunder away from the from the wedding. So so then, um, now we here we are at amm Marylyn comes back from the doctor and she goes, Graham Graab came here, and she shows me the ultrasound picture and I'm like, oh, that's cool, awesome, Yeah, yeah, we're pretty that's right yet, and and then she goes, no, no, no, no, look closer. And I looked closer and I was like, oh my gosh. And then it was like ding dong no way. So all weekend we kept looking at each other going were

you like your immediate reaction Maryland to twins. I I can't even imagine the pack that the punch that packs of. Just like I felt immense gratitude. Just I felt so grateful because we we're actually both forty two at the time, and like you said, I mean that's after thirty five, right, it's like a geriatric parto over here getting pregnant with ye. So at forty two, you were like, right, like, this probably is going to take a long time. It might

not be easy. We might be you know, unfreezing those eggs. We might you know, we didn't really know, and so I think just to find out that we're having to our nurse said something to us. She said, sometimes the flame burns brightest right before it goes out. Right. Oh, that's incredible, that is so funny. Oh I can't okay, So, you guys the most epic wedding of all time. So

we're so thrilled that Graham has found incredible Maryland. Were so thrilled that you guys are together and all of the groups of friends came together to celebrate your love. And then what happens on the dance floor. So then we everybody performed, including you and Adam and some of my my closest friends, and we went last, and so

um we uh. We changed the lyrics to Adam Sandler's the Wedding Singer Song, And throughout the whole night, there was a monogram that was playing on behind everybody who was performing, and um, that monogram while we were singing, changed to the ultrasound photo, and the ultrasound photo said, uh, congratulations, and then it went on for a little bit longer, and then it said we are pregnant, and everyone was like what screen and then and then it said with twins,

and it was just like I'll never forget it. It was just like mayhem either. It was fucking insane. My husband rushed the dance floor and started a mosh pit, screaming twins, twins, and everybody was like jumping up and down, screaming, holding each other, bawling, crying. I sweated through a very thick velvet suit and it was soaked at the end of the night because I downs it was. It was

such a beautiful moment. It's just unforgettable to be there with you guys, all of you together, and and I just really think like it's just really inspiring for people out there listening, Like I just think like, at forty two, you guys met, fell in love, got engaged, got pregnant with twins, announced it at your wedding. You've birthed them. They are healthy. You guys are surviving. When we got into in the this is your lab, that's why when you were like, how long have we been together? And

you're like, I don't know, two or three years. It's like you've been fucking busy. It's been amazing. It's been so we're so every day. I'm just like so grateful for Maryland and the opportunity to raise these two boys. So take me through your pregnancy with twins and like teach me, like, is it so different than having Well, I mean obviously you know too and I only know one, but like, what did doctors tell you? Were you sick? Um?

How did you feel? So my pregnancy was pretty uneventful, which is thank god great to hear about, right, Like, nothing huge happened, I mean except for me getting here, just that huge thing happened. Yes, But um, I guess the main difference is, you know we saw we went to see my obi probably um once a week. Okay. So because it's high risk because of age, and high risk because it's twins, your doctor visits are more. Yes.

I remember Graham saying he had bought a mini fridge next to the bed because that's how much you were consuming. You couldn't even make it to a kitchen. You had to literally have power bars and like yogurt drink that I absolutely loved. Yeah, oh, you were craving yogurt drinks. Well, I don't know if I was really craving it. I just was so hungry all the time. I would at least fill you up quickly. Yes, in the middle of the night, I would just reach over chug that yogurt drink,

go back to bed. In the mornings, I would make myself these elaborate breakfasts, so they might be like it might be like a forty minute like preparation. I made like pancakes with like protein powder in them, and then like this hemp protein I really loved berries. Then I would do scrambled scores kale in it, and like cheese and veggies, and then it would just be this whole thing. And then I would just sit down and enjoy my breakfast.

And was your plan to have a vaginal birth or cesarean or what did people what were people telling you was most likely going to be the case? Like what did you want and what ended up happening? Well, I really wanted a vaginal birth, so I read all about it, and I, you know, listen to your podcast, and just you know, I was preparing for that at the same time our specialist, because not only did we see R O B a lot, we also saw a specialist once every three weeks or so. And what is that specialist?

Is that a twin specialist or like a high risk specialiontologist? What the hell is that? Basically a twin doctor or I think they do. It's just a high risk doctor who pregnancies that are maybe not your normal like average one baby right right, And but yeah, and and and he was awesome, and that whole team was awesome. And so we would go in there. Yeah, like it was like every two or three weeks, and so we had

a we were in the doctor's office all the time. Yeah, so you were so what was the specialist telling you? So pretty early on he was saying, it's very unlikely you're gonna have a vaginal bone and we're like, oh yeah, what are you know? We're like, maybe something different will happen with us, right because you hold out hope, You're like I'm going to be you know, I mean, so he's telling you most likely you're going to be a

C section. Well he was also this all this doctor was also um really focused on something called twin twin syndrome. The hell's that? Um? It's uh, it's where one of the twins in our specific mono dye type between eight between days three and five, identical twins, your twindom are twindom Um. There is a possibility for one of the children to take more of the nutrients than the other. And so they were that's what they were literally, Arnold

Schwarzenegger and Danny Video who exactly right. So they're monitoring the twins and how they're functioning in the womb. One can be taking more food off in the first scenario, they both have their own placentas, right, and then and then they're they're in their own sacks, which would mean they wouldn't be stealing each other's stuff, that's right, And that there's that's the least risk. And then there's this middle zone where they share a placenta but they're in

different sacks. And then there's the most high risk, which is they share a placenta and they're in the same sack. What were you guys, So we had our boys were in different sacks, but they shared a placenta. So the doctor was monitoring their weight gain, their progress, their development, the neck, all of the measurements and all of that stuff.

We were so lucky. We were so lucky because every time we went in there, um there were people who um weren't as lucky as us, and they had just left and you know, and and we kept going, you know, we kept every time and it was like we were in and out going. Everything was great. Everything was great, and we're just like every time there was not one visit where we got any news where we had to

be worried or something. The podcast stories, I'm so happy to be around because it's not Yeah, it's really not always the case. I have some friends, you know, growing up who were twin had a twin in utero that one didn't make it, and my friend did you know things like that that is common. I mean, that does happen. Um, So they start preparing you for a C section and tell me about going into labor and all that. Were you induced? Was it planned? Were you given a date

and a time? Yeah? So it was planned. And I mean I think ultimately I had you know, maybe a week or two in there where I had to just kind of shift mentally into thinking, Okay, I thought that I would have this experience and now I'm gonna have a C section. But I actually felt good about it because r O. B. She's actually a pioneer in all kinds of like natural birth processes. And she kept saying, just of the delivery as the introduct the portal to motherhood,

to bringing these children into the world. It's not the whole experience. There is so much more. So don't dwell. It's two days out of the hopefully millions are gonna get or whatever. But so you had a planned C section, right, So our specialist he really didn't want us to go past how many weeks? Six weeks six? So I guess through different studies and I think like different cases, they know that going past thirty six weeks, there's no benefit

to our specific situation. Okay, our boys were close to July fourth, and so they took them out, um before the holiday. That is always how it works, guy, do you want to know that, Like for induction, it's always like yeah, um mine was like, it's the it's the high holidays. So you know what I was like, got it, got it, Like people will have lives and it's just a thing. So they didn't make it to thirty six they made it to thirty five and change where you scared?

How did you feel before going in? I think I felt ready. I was like, let's get them out. I remember you at the end, which is you know. I always feel like that's so lucky if you're able to get there when you're pregnant, for you to say just let's get this. I can't do this anymore. I can't carry this more. I can't pee anymore in the middle

of the night, I can't have reflux anymore. I want my body back, Like, let's just get on with the show, right right, And little did I know that would be this whole journey to reclaiming my body, right, like feeling like you're more, You're back in your body. So that's still going on, but um, that first step of getting that for sure, And I think I remember one night I just couldn't sleep towards the end at all, so I was on the couch and um, I maybe you

come up and sleep with me on the couch. One night it was pretty close to when we knew we were going into the hospital, and I was crying and holding your hand and I just wanted you to sleep with me upstairs because I felt really alone. Yeah, it made me cry. Yeah, and she she had to sleep sitting up for i'd say probably the last four months. She's this weird pillow configuration where it was like it had to be the pink pillow and the blue pillow and then this pillow. And then if it wasn't that,

it was like something's wrong. Why you would reflux or you were uncomfortable, too much weight on the side or something. Yeah, exactly on my side. It was like the boys just went to the side. Could you imagine that failing? No, I can't. I mean it was painful for one. I cannot. Even So you go in for a C section, it's all status quo, I mean, nothing out of the ordinary, right, Yeah, I mean, I mean obviously it was the most exceptional

day of your life. But I'm saying as far as like the doctors were concerned, it was like like all good, right, nothing, no real complications, I think the I mean, one part that was really surprising to me that I hadn't read about or no other moms had mentioned, was that once so they made the incision and then I could kind of hear our nurse and our doctor talking and one of the last things I remember is that because we've gone on our honeymoon to Morocco, and so the nurse

was like, oh, these boys have already been on camel rides, they'll be fine. I remember her before the moccoon right right, But there was this sensation all of a sudden they were talking and then all of a sudden, I felt this incredible pressure that knocked the wind out of me on my stomach and um. Later she explained that it was her elbow that to get the babies out. They tried to um mimic the feeling of the baby going

through the canal being pushed through. So instead of pulling them out or lifting them out, which is what I had imagined the c section was like would be like for me, they with all the force that she had in her body, presses down with her elbow and then pushes the baby out. So she did that two times, and the first time I was still kind of with it, and I could. I remember hearing lion come out and his cry, and I just all the joy and the

feelings with that. And then the second time, um, when KP came out, who came out without a sound compared to his brother who had had this kind of war cry. Kap came out. Um, I was just so like the second time around, it was like complete nausea and just feeling rugs on the epidural and the weird feeling of the pressure and the push, Like that feeling of the second push Did it just make you want to barth exactly? Yeah, So I think that was surprising. I didn't know that

that was part of the experience for as Arian. So so once kp came out and wasn't crying, were you worried? Did they? Did he cry a little bit after? How did that go? Well? Really quickly they brought them over to us, So I wasn't worried. Were you know, I wasn't worried. I was like when Lyon came out, it was a shriek. It was such a loud shriek. And then you know, they whisked them away and clean them up, and you know, and then I I didn't want Then there was another one, So I was like, I didn't

know what to do. Your attention is already being split, so it's like you welcome to being a parent of twins. I was like, I was. I was with Maryland and I was like I don't. I didn't want to leave Maryland, and they kept saying, do you want to come over and see and see Lyon and see Lyon? And I was like, no, I'm staying here with Marylyn. The baby's gonna be fine, you know. And so I stayed with Maryland.

And then once the second baby came out a couple of minutes later, was it a couple of minutes between the two three minutes later? Why is that? And why how do they pick which one comes out first? Like? What the hell? How does it? Lion had been head down for a couple of weeks and hadn't moved at all, and then Lion had been moving his position all around. Okap, right, KP had been moving around a Lion was in the birthing position. So had he had you done, a vaginal

birth line would have come out first. And so we went to go to the the specialist. Um we kept, you know, asking like, are they in the same positions, because we feel kicking in the same places, and yeah, Lion would had always been ready to go the whole the whole time, and right towards the end, then they both they both switched. They both like went around right and then and then they ended up landing back in

the same position, so it was weird. And then um, and then when Lion came out, he was off getting taken care of. And then and then KP came out and he was off getting taken care of. And once I felt like Marilyn was okay, I went I saw

the two babies, and they weren't. They were so cute from from the start, like that, not only were you guys blessed in this whole situation of like all of this happening, thank God, healthily and safely and miraculously, but they were cute from like the first second, like most people's newborn babies are gremlin alien grandpa's. How did you feel immediate connection to them? I felt immediate connection, But then three days later I was lost. I was completely

out of my mind lost. I didn't feed My love to my son was a very slow burn. It was not love at first sight. How did you feel, Maryland? I think I felt similar to that, And I might have heard you talked about that, because well, I think it was good because then it made me I'm glad, It made me feel like, oh, it's gonna be okay. If I experienced that, so I think for me, I just like, you know, physically, there's so much pain with the C section. So I just felt really kind of

inadequate in the beginning because I could barely walk. I was leaning on Graham to go to the bathroom. And so sexy right really it makes you feel hot. And the diapers and the bleeding nuts and the bleeding and the whole you're in stitches, you're in mesh panties for a long time. Um, and then trying to nurse sometimes. Um. Yeah, we have that big breast friend thing and they can nurse at the same time, like in a football hold on either side. And I first came over and met them.

That is how I saw Maryland, and I almost fell on the floor. I walked into their beautiful living room and she had a pillow and two babies, one on each boob, their heads together, their feet away from each other, one on each nipple eating. There are no words to describe that. That is super If that's a super woman, superhero, I mean that, what else are you looking for? That's wild? Um, So you just did it. You just jumped boobs in first, like you just did it. You weren't like there is

there Electation Specialists that specializes in twins. Yes, and we had the two of us took a breastfeeding for Multiples class before the delivery, rest Feeding for multiples at the pump station. At the pump station, great, and what do they tell you to do? Well, we re enacted how it would go with dolls. I don't know was that helpful? I it was kind of helpful. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was all helpful. You know, I think I didn't don't know if I remembered any of that at the time

it goes in there somewhere or not at all. When they sent you home with the twins? Is that at what point? Did she get super real? Ship got super real the second that we got into our own room at the hospital. At the hospital because for me, Maryland couldn't get out of the bed. So the nurses came over and we're like, okay, so here's the sheet. You marked down their ships, you marked down their pisses, and

you marked down when they eat. And I was like, wait, I do that I have wait, no, no, that's okay. They what I'm sorry on boat on what the we're looking at? So now you're like logging stuff I'm logging stuff. I'm like, I don't know what the funk I'm doing. I'm just like, uh so. And I didn't change a diaper, one single diaper for you for a couple weeks, maybe two weeks or something, Graham, because everything it was a full on boot camp for how to keep a child

alive because I'm not a child too. Of them, like it was unbelievable, And you changed all those diapers, all those diapers. I fed them every single meal that Maryland wasn't, you know, nursing, trying to nurse. And because they came in early, they were premature. Her supply had not come in. Yeah, I had the same thing. My milk come in like five days, so I had to give him formula for

a while until I came in. So one I listened to a lot of podcasts all the way through and read bunch of stuff about twin dad stuff, you know, and and and twin stuff, and like how to be ready for that? Is there any way to be ready? Well? I guess I mean you were. Your Your podcast was super helpful, I mean so helpful, And there were some other ones that were really helpful, and some of them were just sort of innocuous conversations that we're I don't

know whatever you know. But but um I I did feel like at the when we were at the hospital, it was so intense to have to take care of both of them and not really have uh any sort of guide guide in it. And but one thing that that was that we didn't know at the time, and it really caused us a lot of stress, was the fact that the babies weren't holding down their food. Right here is when a different kind of ship hit the fan. Yeah, and and basically there there, stomachs can hold the amount

of a golf ball. That's what we know. Yeah and and and so the nurses kept trying out different formulas, trying out different things. We tried out, you know, Maryland's breast milk, and weren't holding it down. But so they were actually throwing up, right, they were throwing up everything. Both both of them are yeah, yeah, lion more than KP.

But they both had like these violent throw ups. And so after after that experience had had ended, we learned that at the thirty fifth week of when a baby is premature, they learned that that is the that is the week that they have that they learned the reflux of how to swallow, and so that was the problem.

It wasn't the formula, it wasn't Marilyn's breastmas. Yes, and they kept trying all these other things out, but then we eventually learned that we just needed to slow the flow down on the nipple, and then they learned over the SubTime swallowed down. Yeah. So I think that for other twin parents, or even if you for Singleton's, that maybe our premature the slow flow nipple saved our life because I had been obsessing over what bottles to get.

I was like, oh, we're gonna use glass bottles, right, You're on Amazon buying every bottle nipple type imaginable, right. But I mean that none of that stuff mattered. It was really just how helping them control the flow of milk, and that helped us so much. So ship gets real in the hospital, they send you guys home. Did you feel any way shape form connection or favoritism to one or the other. That's a really good question, like immediately

are you bonded with one? Are you like Lion had more um he had he he was struggling more with holding his food down. So I think a lot of our attention early on was to Lion and Um, and that did it did cause I think some interesting conversations, especially when we had to go back to the children's hospital and KP was doing well and Lyon was having different tests and having to get you know, X rayed, and all these different things that they were doing to him. UM.

But I don't know if it's favoritism. I think it's just more concern And I think I thought about it and worried about that it might have been, but it didn't really happen and hasn't happened because, like Graham was saying, Lion had a couple more issues. And one of the things too, we've been getting the Voice checked out for is their head shape class and like the symmetry of

their faces, and Lion has a little more asymmetry. And so at times I've wondered, is there is there going to be something where I favored KP because their faces look different? Think about how we are animals, and like how you know you pick people like you who you your eyes like to look on, and like what if you do like the asymmetrical and this is so ridiculous, this conversation, But I was talking like instinctually, like, well,

we named we named our children. Lion is a family name on my side, and KP is named after Marilyn's dad's um. And I sometimes think about that too, thinking like that Lion is your somehow came on that boat. And then KP is named after your father who passed away, who you must have such connection to, and how wonderful that you were able to name a son in his memory, Like yeah, already there, we're already dealing with things. Lion was twin a and so he came out three minutes

before his brother. Because he's going to be a Sibley and he will be the first biracial child in my line of family. We thought that he was forging new territory. If it's so is KP. But we had to name one of them. Craziness. What about all the twin research you guys have done about them wearing the same clothes, going to the same school, Like what are we doing? Is there a plan in place? Well? I think early on we talked about it, and even with their names,

we wanted them to be really unique. And Graham, you were really forging ahead with that, and you know, and I'm glad that we we decided that we weren't going to dress them the same and more. You know, they're already individuals. And it's interesting when you have twins, they get a lot of attention. And I think that when just when you're going around in life. So when we we decided like how we were going to you know, progress in terms of their individuality and all that stuff.

Like you know, um, I'm one of four kids, and all of us were really nurtured in a really individual way. We all ended up doing pretty different things. And I think that it's probably gonna be more difficult for us with twins. But um, in order to be I think I think we'll just be more conscious of that as they get older. And and we were just this week we had a conversation in bed, going like how do

we create new unique opportunities for both of them? Like and and I think those things I think are going to be really important and being really conscious of that. What about like same school, different classes is like what you'll worry about it when you get there. And you guys are so in it right now with baby tongue, I can't even I did me through the twin verse of this whole experience being a twin. I've I've met a number of them, and I have heard multiple times

that they twins appreciate being treated individually. And a good friend of mine, Um is a twin, and he said that they went to separate schools. And I was like, did you did you like that ultimately? And he was like, I think so. I think I did appreciate that we had different friends. We had we weren't known as twins, but we also had this super amazing relationship. And so Marilyn and I were talking about that this week, and I don't know, I mean, I don't know what you'll

see when you get there. We can do a whole other podcast about the choices you make, because I Am going to get really annoying when I ask you a million questions socially, Um, I can't believe. Like, Also, how well you're doing. Maryland went back to work. How old were they six sweets? Yeah, guys, is everyone hearing that I went back? That's fucking insane. But I had the best job in the world. So I'm a writer, so

I could just right at home. And my mom was still living with us full time, and so she and Graham really carved out time so that I could go down and to the nursery, which was just now my office is now the nursery. And and right, how about sharing her bedroom? How do we feel about that? That's just how it's going to be. Yeah, now did they wake each other up? Was there? Was that just a complete show when you were like trying to get them to sleep, Like one cries, the other one cries all

the time. It was kind of mayhem like that. In the first two months. I'm so glad podcasts happening because it really like Adam's dream of having twins, like he needs to listen to this. It sounds really, it sounds incredible and also very difficult. The first two months were pure hell. I mean just just certainly, let's say it kind of it was so hard. I mean, my first two months were pure held with one Do you guys meet parents of one child who complain and look at

them and you're like, please shut the funk up? Maybe a little I would I would be like, how dare you we actually think? We actually say to ourselves were like having one kid would be like a vacation, like when we went on these when we went on these on these solo adventures. Both Marilyn and they were like boring. Boring is actually what it was. So it's like, what are just caring for? What? I had nothing to do? Like Marilyn was nursing. I was like check on my phone,

Like I mean, have nothing to do? Um, yeah, I imagine like putting two in a car seat. There's always something to do. And it also for the dad. You know, I have felt very grateful in that I have been a part of the parenting process from the beginning in a much different, unexpected way than my dad or anyone that I've known, because there's always something for me to do.

You're at the place where when people always say when I move from one kid to two kids, it's like you're not they're outnumbered when you have one kid, so like one parent is always sort of chilling, But when you are literally two on two like you are now, there is something for always, There's always something to be done. That's fun. Oh god, it sounds so exhausting. I've really applaud you both, Like nobody's business. What would you say

would be advice you would give to expecting parents of twins? Oh? Well, I don't know if this advice. But I think that it's just such a special, unique experience and like we were saying, the first two months does feel like you're just like someone came up with my version of health and and I'm just gonna have to live it every hour, every day, every night with no sleep, literally none. My god, it's so danger us. It's like, oh my god, we shouldn't even be on the road. Like fantasies of throwing

them against the wall for sure, completely normal. It's just very normal. I had fantasies of getting on a plane and changing my identity and leaving everybody Like I was like, good luck, Adam, because it sucks. It's so hard, so hard. But I think after pushing through that really really tough part, every day just unfolds, and I think it's just like a new part of beautiful unfolding. It's just really really

gratifying and just such a way to stretch yourself. I think as a person and as a mother and as a parent, as a father, to be the guardian of these two human beings, it's it's just really really special.

And I think that, um, there's so many ways for a couple to grow together when they have twins together and then also just on your own, as you begin to feel like, well, I can take them out together by myself, and I can go for walks with them, and I can you know, and you feel this sense of independence and also what a way to pat yourself on the back. I mean the simplest things. It's like I can take to my two children for a walk, Like that's like a massive accomplishment. I feel like like

that was, like that's big. So maybe it's like those little things, it's like those that's huge. Graham, what about you advice for expecting twin parents? I think if I had advice for twin parents, any parents, really to really be um in the moment as much as you can with your partner, because they pick up on that stuff. Um. And and I think that Marilyn and I we we

have a lot of fun. And I think that if you really try to keep that ball in the air, then the children and parents and twins can take care of their relationship too. I have got no excuses. Um, you guys, this is so beautiful. I could talk to you for a hundred thousand hours. I feel very lucky

to be in your life. I feel very lucky to be in your son's lives, and I feel very lucky to ask you now to please come on Katie's Crib in a year so we can hear about what is happening in kap in lions life and all of the other twin stuff you are going to teach me so I can live vicariously through you, because that's enough for me. Thank you all for tuning into Katie's Crib and for your beautiful messages and reviews. I absolutely love connecting with

you and hearing your stories and questions. So email me at Katie's Crib at Shonda land dot com. We may just feature you on an episode, so hit me up. Thanks guys. Katie's Crib is a production of Shonda Land Audio in partnership with I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from Shandolan Audio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. I Want You, Want You, I Want You