What the Heck is Occupational Therapy?

the hell is going on? And their kids are currently an occupational therapy and I was like, wait, what is occupational therapy? I don't know much about it. So when a mutual friend introduced me to Marlene Handler, who I have sitting across from me, I knew I had to have her on the crib and I have to ask her all my questions, so you know. Marlene is an occupational therapist who currently works at a high school called the Brooklyn Transition Center, where the curriculum is designed with

the focus on basic vocational training. She integrates mindfulness and wellness strategies into her personal practice to help her students navigate everyday stressors and function better at school. Hi, Marlene, Hi, Katie, Thank you so much for coming on the show. Thank you so much for having my gosh, my pleasure. Like, what is occupational therapy? Can you tell me? Goodness, tell me seriously the million dollar question? Does everybody ask you that?

You know? It's funny because all through OT school, everybody is like, what is OT? What is it? We're studying this and what is It's so so broad, it's so broad, it's like all encompassing. I think the simplest way to explain it is that it's helping people engage in the activities that they find meaningful throughout their day in a

more functional way, in a more independent way. So I mean, and this can range from adult children to adults, Like it's through the entire lifespan like zero to a million, because it involves a lot of caretaking and it involves a lot of likea I mean, it's like helping people like holistically thinking about everything that you engage in your life and what you want to do and what's meaningful to you and really tailoring a plan to like help

you be more functional and more independent and those activities. So it could really be everything like gardening, being a mom, being more organized with your job, learning vocational training, even just learning how to socialize better with people or your peers, or I mean I work in a school, so it's like play and and like academic success and socialization. So it's truly a case It sounds like it's truly a case by case plan for someone how to get them

um moving in the way that they want to be. Yes. So when you walk into a classroom, you have to gather a lot of information about what does the student need, what does the teacher think they need, What are their parents think they need, what are they kind of are they at the same level as their peers, all of these things you're looking at. Some kids I see in the classroom. Some kids I see like in the cafeteria if it's like during like feeding or manipulating a spoon.

It just really I like, go to them wherever they need me. Wow. But a lot of them come to the O T room. And I'm very, very fortunate to work with an amazing team of ot s in my school and have our own space because a lot of you know, New York City public schools like OTS, don't have any space. They're treating in the hallway. They like they get like a hundred dollars a year for like supplies. This is not my school. My school is outstanding. O T s are so like underrepresented. The name implies, like

most people think the name. We need a rebranding of occupations. Occupational therapists need to go to like a branding manager and get their ship together. I've been saying this is absurd. It sounds sounds like we like help people with job applications. What is that? I know? Trust me? Why I know we need to rebrand the O T profession. This is why I think we don't get a lot of I don't know, love or you know, you know, public knowledge. Are people constantly in your life like, wait, what do

you do for a living? Like? Are your parents like what I think? You know? It's funny my mom is still like, UM, I know you're not a teacher, but we just like tell that to our friends because they don't really understand. Like so many people in my life, they're like, I know you're not a teacher, but I'm still not quite sure what you do. What would be um examples of like what you're doing in the day. I know each one is very varied. Okay, let's just pick one the first one that comes to your mind.

A lot of the kids in my school, many of them are non verbal or have very limited verbal skills. So you imagine being sixteen years old having raging hormones. You're you have special needs, so you can't like express your function in the world like most people, and then you also can't express yourself. So I do a ton of like movement based activities, yoga, exercise, we have tons of dance parties, just really fun, engaging, full body movements.

And then we do a lot of grounding work, which is like devating meditation, guided meditations, body scans, um, closing our eyes in a dark room and just feeling like taking breaths. I mean really just that that is really beneficial for the kids that I work with, because they already have a lot of difficulty with expressing themselves and they get frustrated really easily. They act out in ways that are really aggressive. That's the other thing is like

teachers like, oh, I can't deal with this kid. They're hitting my other students or they're throwing things. And then you walk into a classroom and you do like a dance party and you have them do some yoga and like the rest of the rest of the day, the kids like chilled out, And that's like what I mean, that's obviously the you know, the most successful thing that

you can wish for. Um, it doesn't always happen that way, but you know, in terms of success stories, I see tons of kids all the time that have really really big, explosive behaviors, and then I start doing like weekly meditations with them, and things get a lot smoother. They calm down. They come immediately into the O T room and they pick up the headphones to gesture that they want to

do a meditation. A meditation is on headphones for some students. Yeah, that like need less distractions rather than doing it like on a speaker in order to cope with everyday stressors like mindfulness and yoga and movement is really helpful for all of us. I mean, it's something that I do every day too. Um So I practice what I preached, but it's definitely a practice it with their own kids. I absolutely, Oh my gosh, tell me more I need

to be doing this. How old are your kids? Well, my daughter, um I won't say her name on air, but she just turned four in November and she's got big feelings and big emotions, and we send her to med Aitaian camp and yoga. Like my daughter like retains so much. Like she'll be frustrated and she'll be like, I need to smell the flowers and blow out the candles.

I need to go sit in my tap. Imagine what it's like for being a kid in days this day and age, like when screens and everything's in your face and we are at such a high frequency and culturally, I mean we are just plus they're living in New York, but like to just really take time. I mean, it's

just very different from my childhood. I just remember like hours of boredom and like I just feel like which is so important because that's where imagination comes out of and that's where when you're a kid you start to create games for yourself. But like that is just not not something anymore. It's it's a shame because it's you know, there's I know how sensory overloaded I get, and I have all of these tools at your disposal. I have like frontal cortex function, and I like know what you

know what's going on. I mean, children have no idea, and kids with special needs extremely don't know, like they really did have a hard time. How early can occupational therapy because I think my friends in l A who have occupational therapists, I think some of them have started pretty young. Yeah, so it starts like in New York State specifically, you can get early intervention services from birth and if you need an evaluation or your pediatrician says,

you know, your kid is not hitting major mark. Remember happening my friend had like a maybe it was a thirteen month old girl, and you know, she only had a sound or something and they weren't saying anything yet. But then you know, the doctor was just sort of like, Okay, if we come back at eighteen months or two years and she hasn't progressed to like two words or something like that, I don't. I'm like being so don't take that personally, you know, I mean, don't be measuring your

child's word account. Talk to your pedetrition. But um, it was like that was the first sign. And then they had him evaluated and then evaluated again, and then probably around three they told her he's autistic. And that's but it was great because they put him in occupational therapy, speech therapy, all these kinds of things, which is really helpful at that age because that's obviously there's the most coming together happening in your brain, and that's when you

have really really make big changes and big strides. What what would be signs like milestones of Toddler's correct like like not hitting developmental milestones, not engaging, it's a lot of contact, Like if you point to something across the room as your kid engaging with you, are they able to look their peers, are you know, animals in the

eyes like things like that. I mean, I don't know, I'm not a doctor that be diagnosing autism, but those markers, you know, are they able to you know, have parallel play or cooperative play with their peers like these kinds of things. But I have to say I was pretty shocked and alarmed at the cost for private For instance,

insurance would cover certain hours for her. But like when she wanted to put him in preschool, they said what was best for him and his diagnosis was for him to be in a preschool, like not a preschool for special special needs, but that they wanted him to have a shadow like someone that goes then because he's someone that really copies, like he's a copier. So they were like, the more he is around kids in a regular preschool, he's going to learn that stuff really quick because he

was very good at that. And but she had to pay out a pocket. Yeah, a lot of people just don't have access to good care, which is really shame. And I mean a lot of the kids in the school that I work as well, they're from you know, lower socio economic backgrounds, and they didn't have a lot of the supports early on and these because I feel like early on it's very much out of until you

can get in this system. I mean in New York State because of EI services, you can get free state funded support, the you know, proficiency or the there's a range of people doing it. So is it are you getting getting quality? Who knows? That's really it's various depending

on where you live and who's available. But there are services and then there the services continue from basically pre K through twenty one within the school system if they are evaluated within the school system for needing special accommodations. So there are free services. Again, good quality is very Do you find that people talk about in your profession that there are more autistic kids now or is that not true. Is this like, is this like a very

triggering question? I'm not sure I've heard it a before, is why I'm asking it. Like, So, I looked just today at the statistics these guys. Did I tell you Marlene Handler came in here with just she's such a professional, and I just can't believe how many no cards you have written night Adoria. Um, so tell me what are the statistics on this? So today when I looked, it's one in thirty seven boys and one in a hundred

and fifty one girls. So there, like the stats are changing so quickly because a few years ago it was like one in fifty nine boys, and now it's one in thirty seven. I think it's because obviously it's many factors.

They're honing the diagnostic criteria, they're finding it earlier, right, So, like there are probably many people walking around with some variation or some you know, level of autism or Aspergers or something, and they're functioning in the world fine, but they're you know, they're getting better at finding it and diagnosing it early. And it's I think it's like as early as like I want to say, like ten months. I'm thirty seven, and I don't remember even hearing this word.

I know that when I grew up in New York, there were definitely kids in my high school with Down syndrome. Yes, for sure, that was and it was something in our lives. It was on our TV shows. There were characters on our TV shows. You know, that was something I knew. I never knew autism and I never knew askers for sure.

And I just feel like it's a real thing now, especially when you're when you're a new mom and you hear other moms standing on you know, soap boxes talking about you know, whether it's backs well kids because you're going to give them autism and slow down that I didn't know. You know, you hear all these things, whether everything is up just for some reason in culturally, like in the zeitgeist, you hear this kind of stuff. But obviously we're hearing it because the numbers are staggeringly high.

It's crazy, like that's that's not a little bit that I know of the diagnosis and everything. It's like, it's definitely genetic factors. If you have a kid with autism already, you're you're more likely to have another kid with autism or some level of it. Um you know age there's women like women and men. This is another big thing in like big urban areas is that we're having children much later in life. The mean age before it was like twenty two and now it's like or something. You know,

Like I always worried. I mean I'm forty. I have a one year old and a four year old. Like I was definitely right there with you know, I hope everything is okay. And I work around kids that have a lot of special needs and I see it all day, so it's like it's always in my face and I'm like, oh my god, the likelihood is so high. What what are some like are there are some success stories you've seen with OT for some of your students, like where

you've seen O TEA makes such a huge difference. I mean every day I see some sort of success, you know, in terms of like a kid making a social gesture to another kid. I mean that's so big and huge. Yeah. Um. One of the things that my coworkers and I do we run like a weekly cooking group and it's so fun.

I mean we're teaching these kids really really important and necessary skills for themselves to like be able to make themselves a meal, but there's so much that goes into it, you know, learning to do like a task that has more than one to two steps, that's really hard. Um socializing with their friends, to like set a table, to gather ingredients, to clean up, Like these are all really you know, to us, it's like, oh, that's like set

a table, like that's so simple and whatever. But real life, so you're doing real life skills, you know, like kids that like learn to put on their jacket by themselves that have never been able to do that before. That's that are fifteen years old. You know. It's like or you know, I had a kid once that his I'm not sure why. At his otique goal for many many years was like to be able to write his name. And I was like, this is just ridiculous. This kid

is like six years of the same goal. Like obviously, like we have to think of a different strategy here, you know. And we just started playing around with like different modalities like shaving cream and you know, putty and all these different things, and he just started like making shapes of the letters of his name and now he writes his name. It's like just teaching them a different It's like every day. You have to really be creative and think about like how am I going to reach

this kid today? Bless you that you're really use outside of the box thinking. Um, I was going to ask you what happens to your kids at school that are twenty one and they're done with the program? Like where do they go? So there are Again New York City

is a very unique place. There are tons of agencies and support services for kids once they we say age out, like in quotes, Um, there's like respite services that can be taken to the movies, it can be taken to summer camp, they can work in day have programs, um. But it's a huge, huge process like years of you know, evaluations and psycho socials and doctor visits and all this stuff, and like a lot of people just don't want to go through all that bullshit basically to get the services.

But like then they end up sitting at home for the rest of their lives or they go into like nursing you know, assisted living facility because they become too dependent. They can't do anything, can't do anything the day jobs or night jobs or whatever it is. And so yeah, it's really really sad. Actually it is. Mind blowing to think about having a special needs kid who will be your responsibility probably till pass your passing. Well, then I'm when I go to these meetings. Yeah, it's terrifying when

I go to the meetings with the parents. But we have, you know, these meetings called individualized education plans, and we meet with the family and we meet with the team and kind of discuss what the kid is doing well and what they need more support with a lot of these parents are like, what am I going to do? Like my kids, my kid is only sixteen, I only have five years? What am I going to do? And they're just terrified, like what if something happens to me?

You know, And it's like, I mean, I've i cannot tell you the amount of times I've walked away from these meetings in tears, Like I'm like the mountains that these people are climbing every single day is profound, and I you know, I feel like so incredibly grateful to have two healthy children and be able to communicate with them and they can express them. Yeah, yeah, I mean, simple things, but these chants also, you know, they have

so much stress on their plates. So they have health problems and they have financial problems, and they have all these things, and it's like, if I can just help in like the smallest way, I feel like I'm doing something good, you know, each day. I mean, especially when I hear these staggering numbers, I'm like, how do you not take that home with you? I think somebody who's good, Like when you get in your subway or car, you're like transition. I do take a little bit home with me.

But I also like I have like my own, like a million of my own strategies that I use every single day, Like I meditate regularly every single people. We need to get it together. I need to let you win. What time do you do that? I wake up at five thirty every day, I get out of here, I set my alarm. My kids get up at seven, so I wake up and meditate, I work out. Arlen go way from me. This is why you look the way you do, And I mean, this is the way car, this is the way that I stay safe. And then

I work in a way that's healthy. For what if you don't get sleep though I often don't get sleep, So you rather wake up at five thirty meditated workout because you feel like that will be more beneficial to your day and how you handle these versus the alarm. See convinced that side of my brain because I don't ever make that choice? Can we? We're gonna make like

a very sharp left turn. Listeners, Um, Marlene, you are, but you are leaving a little bit of this job, like you are going to go into a different sort of helping world. Marlene will be helping pelvic floors from here on out. Finger. I know we talked about the pelvic floor finger banging episode with Stephanie prender Grass from My Believe Season one of Katie's Crib, but it was in the thing why are you switching from this to

the other? Like what what is inspiring this? I mean, you're a mom, so do I really have to go into a full You sort of told me a little bit your own pelvic floor stuff fascination and experience with birthing to childre started having really a lot of peblvic floor dace function, you know, really embarrassing things like continence, all these things, and it's like really embarrassing and limiting to like the activities that I love physically fit and you're so active for you to have to worry about

whether or not you were going to pee is insane and my job is like I don't get too special needs children on nyoga balls. Yes, so I just started. I was really embarrassed. At first, I didn't talk about it, and then once I started talking about it, every single person I know was like, oh my god, me too. And then I was like, oh my god, this is not normal. We're young, like healthy women. What is going on? This is not normal. We're not being offered the help

where to be. And then yeah, I just started talking to a ton of people. I started learning about it. I read a bunch of research, and the statistics on the pelvic floor dysfunction are just insane. I mean, like, I don't know, fifty percent of women like after after one child. You know, it's just crazy. Yeah. And then and then it's something really shameful. So a lot of people aren't even reporting it. Of course, so it's probably

more like eight p UM. So yeah, So I just started talking to people about it, and I was like, let me take a course and just learn a little bit more. So I'm currently getting trained in pelvic floor rehabilitation and my hope is that by late spring I will be launching my private practice in Brooklyn as a based private home base. People come to your house, you go to there, go to their home. Oh my god.

And also you being able to take all of your mindful work, your mindfulness, and it's so so much about like just kind of that mind body connection, getting accessing your avic floor, breathing properly, your posture, how you sit, how you hold your child, how you sleep. I mean, all of these things are so critical. The way that we exercise. I mean, people think they're doing good for their bodies and they're not, and they're doing horrible things

to their pelvic floor. What I learned, Thank god, I went. First of all, she examined me and massaged me internally and externally. And I'm going to tell you, guys, like that's what it involves. And no, it is not like I'm going to have Like it's not in any way

shape form sexual you guys. Um. Also, I don't know if any of their moms had this or you, but not only the p problem, but my orgasm was completely fucked up, completely, Like it was like a gun like sadness, right because because all the muscles are blown out and nobody tells you that. No, good luck with your baby.

Good luck if you ever want to enjoy sex again. Um, but it was really great to go to her, and I feel very lucky that I and I just feeling term that other moms don't get that access even though that a public force, but specialists exists. Sadly, they have to probably pay for it out of pocket. It's like a new thing in the US. Like sadly, I mean, most developed countries have been having public floor physical therapy or some sort of public floor rehabilitation for years, and

it's mandatory after you have a baby. Only in the US do people not know about it. I won't mention my doctor's name, but when I went to my six week appointment, I said, listen, doc, like, what's going on with this thing hanging out of a prolapse? I had something that I was not sure what it was. And the doctor goes, listen, sweetheart, tell your husband never to look there again. Everything works and just continue on. And I was like, what you ask? It's not like, is

this thing happening? Like no, like, let me refer you to a specially friends. I have not to scare any of you women listening currently pregnant, but like I have a lot of friends who had pro lapse uterus, prolapse, bladder a proas anus, all of those things. And this is not This is the ship that is not being talked to. This is exactly. This is like the down

and dirty, like why are we suffering? This sucks? Oh, we carried all of your babies, push them out of agenda and they're weapon so you are taking I feel like, actually, so many of the skill sets that probably make you an incredible occupational therapist are making you an amazing public floor specialist hopefully, oh without a doubt, because you're a caretaker and you are and I'm a person who's lived

through it to through it too. Um, And is there any advice like that you'd want to give to parents listening to this podcast who might be going down the OT path? Yeah, I mean I think you know, it's obviously when you have anybody even mentioned that your kid might need o T, that's terrifying. I've had ends reach out to me and say, oh my god, you know, the teacher says they my kids should be evaluated. I'm like, okay, first of all, let's take a few deep breaths. It's

not as scary as you think. And ultimately what we do as otis is encouraged success. So like, even as scary as it may sound, it's super fun, it's super playful. It's we want to figure out the best way that's going to support your kid, and giving them some extra love and support and encouragement is never a bad thing, you know, and maybe they only need it for a

short time. That's the benefit of starting so early. I mean, I say, if you somebody says to get an evaluation, do it, and do it sooner, like sooner, like, don't put it off until the kid gets older, because like you want to see if we can support them while they're young, while their brain is developing, and really give them the best tools for success as possible. And then to make another ruinating return. Advice for women struggling with their pelvic floors reach out to Yeah, like it's I

know that it's scary. I mean I also as somebody that's now studying it and learning about it, have been really nervous and like the powers and like getting help and getting the education and just you know, you can have so many like benefits long term just from a very very short Yeah, like therapy gets six sessions and it could be the thing that makes the difference between you meet having an organism, yeah, or having a surgury by the time you're forty, because everything just everything is

calling up, falling out. Yeah, right, so get help, help, and the therapists are really there to like make it smooth and easy for you. And we're looking at like, you know, six to twelve sessions and you're like functioning again. One hunt. That was exactly. It's not like it never happened. It's not like talk therapy, Like I go to talk therapy and I'm like, oh my god, I could be in this. Tell him a hundred years old and this sucks. It's like Fellos for therapy. You can see results very rests,

very fast. So just get yourself some help, like that's my advice, and call me or email me if you call Charlene. You guys when Marlene's private practice, it's fun saying that it's so great, like like the TV show brought to you by SHAWNA. Rhymes. Um, when this becomes available, we will list um. I will post it for sure and we will be listening it in the Katie's Crib notes where we can make appointments with Marlene Handler if

you're in the Tri State area. Once you start, I can also give you email If people have any great OT question based related questions you can. Thank you so much for being on King Wonderful guest and I loved how different these two topics are and yet we covered so much round h Thank you all for tuning into Katie's Crib and for your beautiful messages and reviews. I absolutely love connecting with you and hearing your stories and questions. So email me at Katie's Crib at Shonda land dot com.

We may just feature you on an episode, so hit me up. Thanks guys. Katie's Crib is a production of Shonda land Audio in partnership with I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from Shonda Land Audio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Watch