The Truth About C-Sections ft Angelique Cabral

right yep, yeah, cans. You see how professionally I am, guys, um So today in this episode, we wanted to uh do a round table discussion, which is new for us. It's we have three guests here today and in this episode we're talking about c sections, which is a very big, emotional, scary topic with a lot of different perspectives on it. And I bet you guys out there have a lot of questions. I know I definitely do. So, like I said, we're gonna do this in a round table discussion sort

of way, and we have three guests. First, we have Dr Laney Kumetz. Yea, Dr Laney Kumetz, you guys is my ob. She has been for like a decade or more, I don't even know. And um it's really nice to see you up above my bottom half of my body. Doctors lovely, she delivered, Albi. Next, we have my dear dear friend Angelique Cabral Yeah. She um currently starts as Colleen on CBS's Life in Pieces and Angelique has personal

experience with c sections. Will be getting to her. And last, and definitely not least, is my dear dear friend Emily Royfe and she is amazing and a wonderful stay at home mom with the cutest daughter ever. Actually, we need to get a play date together with Adelaide Tuesday and Albi. I mean you guys like them? I like them? Um, Okay, so we're going to jump into this because, like I said, it's a very big topic. Um. First things first, let's go over to Dr Kmetz and can you explain what

is a C section? How is it done? And walk us through it briefly? Sure? So, a C section is a surgical way of delivering a baby. Um. It's performed in an operating room by an O, B, G. Y N A surgeon And uh, the most common way is cut in the lower part of the abdomen, just above the pubic bone um, separating the layers to get down to the uterus, making a cut in the uterus, and delivering the baby through mommy's tummy. Wow, guys, it's like

an episode of Gray's Anatomy. It's unbelievable. Um, So, Angelique, Yeah, let's go to you and let's talk about your experience with um having a C section. Was this a decision you made? How far in advance did you know? This was a decision that I actually I did not have a choice, and I had placenta previa, and we found out about twenty eight weeks or five weeks, I can't remember now, but it was far enough long that we tried a couple for about a month to move my centa.

It basically means that the placenta is attached at the cervix or near the cervics, so that the baby's head cannot come out during labor, and if you try to labor, the placenta basically comes out first and will bleed and like you die, like the old das would die. Like my doctor was like you would be dead, and like that's what happened a lot. Like they didn't know that the placenta was attached. You would try to labor and

then the placenta's out first and you bleed out. So it's a very from what I understand, it's a very like serious thing. And I did not have like a super bad case of it, but it was enough of an issue that they were like no. Like across the bard, I went to four different doctors and they were all like no. Because I really wanted to labor. I'm like the opposite of you. I wanted to be in my element and like be a woman, and I you are a woman. I are a woman, a great mom. Thank

you very much. But I was devastated. And just to say, remember we have another person in common, this chiropractory named dtor Berlin, who works on pregnant women, and I remember him saying something to you on the leak during your process of changing your mental the way you phrased to yourself that you were delivering your baby in it really

helped me. He really helped me with that. He he said, you need to stop thinking of it as a problem and think of it as a beautiful basically, to talk to the baby and say, I'm going to be delivering you through my tummy like I'm birthing. I'm birthing you, but instead of through my vagina, I'm birthing you through my tummy. And to come at it um. It made me weep at the time because I was so emotional and so vulnerable, and I was trying so hard to

move my placenta, which is an impossibility. It's not something we have control over. Placenta previa is very dangerous, both for mommies and for babies. And when once I heard that, I was like, Okay, then it doesn't matter. So do you find the same thing? Dr commits that if you've had patients that have placenta previa and they may have a sort of really emotional reaction to it, um, do you find using the same sort of language is what helps them get to an excited point that they're going

to be there. But baby is a little bit differ when they're told that they're going to need a C section for medical reasons UM, and that can happen well in advance of pregnancy. It can happen in the early parts of pregnancy. You may not find out until you're in labor that you actually need to have a C section. UM plus in a previow is something that is often diagnosed well in advance, and um, so there's more time to process and everybody's experience with processing that information is different.

And UM, I really think it does take a little bit of soul searching. It is a disappointment. There's often some grieving involved. Um, but getting to the point where understanding that, um, you know, kids really don't care about your plans. They unius and babies they just don't read the birth plan. And um, this was the first of I'm sure, what's going to be many many, many times this kid just does not do what you want to do.

And it actually ended up being quite a blessing with my I'm shooting I was shooting a TV show and it was a blessing to know the exact time and day because they could write up for me in that very moment. And then my obi Dr Susan Morrison, said, well, this is Adelaide taking care of you, and I was like, oh, like for the first like, she's actually like the cryer people, a big crier, which is onny of the things I

love about her. So that you anxious sweet about having like a major surgery or did you feel completely like well, we'll get to that, but I've never had surgery. I've never been in a hospital, so I was like, I got this. This is so easy. And the fucking C section and the recovery was a nightmare, Like it was the worst thing that's ever Like I've never felt pain like that. I did not know how serious. When you're talking about like how they cut through your tummy and

then they cut through uterus, I didn't. I literally thought I'd be fine because I'm hardcore and I like work out so hard to like meditate really hard, like nothing else. Prayers you had playing while Adelaide was taken out of you. Mantras did not help her healing process. Um, it was common and we don't really think about it, but it's ajor abdominal surgery. And it's not just major abdominal surgery.

It's major obdominal surgery and then taking care of a newborn and trying to breastfeed and breastfeeding and the emotions that are going through with that and hormonal drop off and like that. My I was taking a shower this morning and I still have that like I'm not a skinny person anyway, and I was looking down like I still have like that weird line where it like goes in and like my vagina is still swollen six months later. So it's like pretty gnarly. I know, I get it.

I get it. You guys, this will We'll get that. So Emily, my dear, please explain that you electively chose to have a C section, and what brought you to that decision and and were you afraid was it an easy choice for you? All of these I never went when I found out I was pregnant. I never thought

I would have a vaginal birth. I just for some I had a friend that had a pretty pretty traumatic um delivery and she was laboring for two days and then she had a C section and then was operated ing from like a place of just complete, like ruined, and I, you know, it's just exhausted, and and it just always stuck out in my head and I'm a

very anxious person. You said that you were really scared of vaginal birth too, and I just wanted to be able to know know like what was going to happen, how it was going to happen, and be able to prepare myself for probably the last time I could ever control something um. And so you know, my husband was super supportive my OBI didn't question it and it so

you can. So when you went into your OBI like very early on and you just said I'm having a C section and that's that, and did she have any sort of We talked about it for a second, but she was just like, if that's your decision and you know, that's what your family's choices and let's let's do it. Wow. Yeah,

it's very impressive. UM. So, Dr Kumetz, Um, what are some of the things and expecting mom should do to prepare or for a C section in the days leading up to the procedure if they've if they know that they're going to have that. I know sometimes there are very last minute calls that are made, UM, but is there anything you do to prepare yourself? Like, well, you know there's going to be the emotional preparation. UM. I think it's really important to talk with your doctor about

what is going to happen. UM. Really spend the time so that you understand the process from the beginning of what time you're supposed to arrive at the hospital, what's the last time you should have anything to eat or drink so that you have an empty stomach. That's why I had it first thing in the morning, because I do not do well without food. Ideally, if you if you if you know you're having a C section, if you can get it scheduled first thing in the morning,

that is the best case scenario. Not that you're really gonna get any sleep the night before because of the nerves, but it's still a little easier. UM. But knowing what is going to happen, having a plan, UM, you know, having your doctor talk you through what the recovery is going to be. Like, how long you should anticipate staying in the hospital, UM, talk to you about it. Probably like three nights in the hospital for a C section. Most insurance plans will cover three to four nights, and

that's pretty average for how long people stay. Guys, personal tip, take those days because you get free nerds, you've got you've got babysitters all up in that hospital, you know what I mean, And you get home and you're like, I loved it. I stayed the four nights. UM. Depending on the hospital, the food can be not bad so emily in cases of UM when a c section is elected like it was in yours. Are there key questions that women should ask their doctors before making the decision

to have a C section. Did you have questions for your doctor? No, I mean we walked, we went through everything. Um. I think it's understanding the recovery period, understanding what you're going to be experiencing, you know, obviously being medicated during the birth, being awake while someone's operating on you. It's intense, it really is. But oh my gosh, questions to ask. It's just getting you mentally mentality for battle. Did you guys feel can can either of you guys speak on

while being awake? Having your stomach and uterus cut open A lot of pressure and a lot of pulling, like I felt tugging. And then I had a situation where I had a um when they were sewing me back up. I had um fibroids, which I know they're little and that as they're like little cyst they're benign. I've had them literally since I was eighteen. Their masses under benign. Okay, thank you for that. That's the real thing. And they're

very common. They're very common, and they but one of them was like in the way of the needle or something, so they had to burn it off. So it took about a half hour longer or twenty minutes longer to sew me up, And I was like, what's what's happening? And you're so drugged? But I remember being like, what's like, I did you guys feel mentally drugged? Like as well, like did you feel kind of foggy or high or fine? Um? I felt fine when it was happening. I had a

non conventional play list. I had to Beyonce Kelly Clarkson. Yeah. The whole situation was just like very much. I felt like I was in an episode of The Mindy Project, you know, like my doctor was a badass woman who was like running her operating room in a way that like I just felt like I'm bringing this girl into this world and like, look at what it's just like a really good like you feel great about it. I felt great about your decision, You felt great about the

experience for you, I can do it again. And how was the recovery for you? Um? Great? I mean we had our house has a ton of stairs. I was walking the day that we The day of operation isn't dr commits. You're supposed to let me if I'm wrong, But when you have a C section, you have to get up and walk that day like a labor on

the hospital. Really any surgery, the sooner that you're up in walking, the lower your risk of getting a blood clot in your legs, The quicker your bowel function will return, the quicker you start mobilizing extra fluid that you get so the swelling resolves more quickly. Yeah, and how was your recovery? We were talking about it a little bit, but I mean I didn't I have stairs to that

were it was. That was tough. I had a lot of swelling, So I don't know, but I didn't come down for my swelling for almost two and a half weeks. My legs were like this big. I can't remember that.

I couldn't fit into any of my shoes. Um. I don't know if it was because of the burn on my uterus with the fibroid or what it was, but I had a really painful I would say two and a half weeks, and then I had to go back to work at three and a half weeks, and so that was not not easy those first that first I don't know, two weeks at work, I was like shuffling and very swollen, just very big. Still. I also had a c section, and yeah, I was hoping you were

going to say. I was hoping you were going to say, I knew you laters have been through and I can talk a little bit about tell me tell me the other side of the table, just because that weird. You like, know exactly what's happening while you're being cut and now here comes scalpel f s whatever it was. It was definitely interesting being on the other side of the table. And it was to one or full colleagues, good friends

of mine, that we're operating on me. And um, I think they were you know, whenever it's a friend or a colleague, there's a little bit more anxiety going into it. I mean, you you never want anything to go wrong for anybody, but especially when it's somebody that you know and respect well. And um, they were very professional and it was you know, by the book and calling for

the instruments and and very formal. And then once my daughter was out and we knew she was fine, they almost forgot that it was me lying on the table and they started chit chatting, you know, how are your kids, what are you doing this weekend when vacation and you know, it's it's interesting to me because I hear patients hear about this and complain about it. And for me, I

found that so reassuring. I knew everything was going perfectly, that it was so routine and so easy for them they could talk about other things and have everything still go just fine. So for me, it was incredibly reassuring to hear my doctors, you know, chat about their kids. And um, you know in advance that you were going to have a C section or was it an emergency last minute thing or so Um I suspected I was going to end up having a C section. I also

have a big fibrid. That fibrid was actually in the way of my daughter being able to come out naturally. And um, she she was head down the whole pregnancy, and then at thirty seven weeks decided to flip, so she came out to she first and pooped all over my doctors on the way. She pissed about the eviction notice and let them know in the only way she could. And uh, Um, I presumed I was having a C section from the very beginning. Um. And uh, but interesting being on the other side of it, And did you

go back to work? Um? I actually did? Uh? C section on a colleague of mine two weeks after my daughter was born. So your recovery was it was, it was not easy. But um, I also, you know, thank goodness, I'm in a position where I have the luxury of having control over my schedule and um so I went back to work really really minimal hours for the first month when I went back, UM, and definitely had backup arranged in case it was harder than I was expecting,

because that's certainly a possibility. Um. But it wasn't easy. But the swelling was crazy. It was, But not everyone has that. Emily, you didn't have, you would have remembered it. If it is there a limit to how many C sections a woman can have, there really isn't unless there was a complication during her um, during her pregnancy, or her c section that would really risk her life if she were to get pregnant again. So it's not necessarily the number of c sections, But in that scenario, it's

the number of pregnancies. For example, if somebody had a uterine rupture, that woman should never get pregnant again because her risk of uterin rupture, which is life threatening both to her and baby, is ridiculously high. And unsafe. Um, but I've I've done fifth c sections on women you know, have five babies. I literally don't understand what's going on. Like I I mean, so power to you, but like wow, that is wow. Um, yeah, it's really impressive. Are you familiar?

I haven't. I don't know much about this. But with this term gentle c sections, what what is that is that different from a traditional C section? Is this just a new trender fat or is this something that's actually like something that people entertain and should entertain the idea of great question? Your opinion? Um, it is definitely becoming more popular. Um. The c section. The surgery itself is unchanged.

Um for somebody that is requesting, you know, changes that would make their C section experience, um a little better for them. Um, it's not changing anything that I'm doing as a surgeon. So it's more of like the I think, the music and the attitude if you or not or exactly it has a lot to do with how somebody feels about about exactly the atmosphere. So um, it involves you know, having the playlist that you want going on. It involves, um, often having a clear drape so that

when the doctor's actually pulling the baby out. Mom can watch. They have a clear drape, clear drape r field some people and some people do. I don't know that I would have wanted to watch. Um. I was surprised my

husband watched. I was expecting him not to want to watch, and he was definitely curious, really crazy what goes on in there, because I was also like, uh, in my vaginal birth, I was like, I'm never looking down there ever, ever, ever, ever, And I think I remember like in the last couple pushes, Dr Komets, I think you said like, look down, here he comes, and I definitely looked down and like he was halfway out of my vaginal and I saw it.

And I definitely had the conversation that Adam wasn't going to watch it, and he did. So things just go crazy in there. So you choose in advance whether there's a clear drape or not clear drape. They can also, depending on the hospital and the staffing availability, they can try to do skin to skin right away in the operating room. Um. We did that. Yeah, Emily, did you do that too? I didn't do it. Um. The issues are the operating rooms are really cold, and babies cannot

maintain their heat really well. When they get moved to the warmer they're actually under a heat or to make sure they're warm because they come out wet and you know, they're coming out from a nice, warm, cozy place into a cold, wet place that's very bright and um, so if you're going to do skin to skin, it's really important that we are able to keep the baby warm enough. Also, you know, this is major abdominal surgery and there are lots of things that are happening during this process, and

moms can feel shaky, moms can feel anxious. Um, and if she doesn't feel like she can colfortably hold the baby safely. And again, you kind of have to keep the baby at boob level and above because we're working we're working below there, so there's kind of a limited space. So you also need to have a nurse dedicated to helping you with in the operating room if you're doing that. So, um, you know, if staff is available to have one extra nurse that's simply dead kidded to helping you with the baby,

that is fantastic. That's not always available, got it? And you guys do then, like Rebecca, help me with this that was cool, so in yours. So I guess both of you kind of had I would say gentle c sections, and that you both had playlists. Um, you were asked if you could do a clear draper non clear draper,

and League said you did have skinned skin. For those of you guys who don't know, skin to skin basically means like when the baby comes out instead of being like kind of whisked away and tested on right away, if everything is looking good normal in the baby's vitals are all looking great. If I'm wrong, I don't, the baby goes onto your naked chest and their naked body and you have like a bonding time with them, and it's called skinned skin, and it was Adam's favorite thing

the entire world. Um somedea being that mom's body temperature will help keep the baby warm even in a colder environment. And also this baby is used to hearing mom's heartbeat. It's been a constant um you know, sound that they've been listening to for the previous nine months. So very theory wise, we can't really them because they don't remember and can't tell us later. But the theory being that if they put them right on your chest, that they're

going to hear that familiar sound. Got it? So on Angelique, um, your gentle c sections. You also were allowed to bring in your dula, right, So she came in, but not during the cutting. It was like as soon as the baby was out, she was waiting looking and came in. And she had been in a bunch of C sections

at Cedars and she knew the anesthesiologists really well. So that's why, because you find that having a duela during it, like there are people who have a lot of duelas during vaginal birds or if they're going to attempt to do a vaginal birth without medical intervention or whatever it is. Did you find that having a duela in a C

section was helpful to your process? Or um? I found it extremely reassuring and comforting, especially because she didn't know the staff essentially and sotin she'd done it so many times. And even though I had heard my OBI explain what was going to happen and like prepare me for all the steps, Rebecca was there with us the whole time. So she was like, come on, you sign in, we sit here, then you go and wipe off your whole body. She was rubbing my feet she like it was incredibly helpful.

I found it because I did not know how I was going to feel, and I was quite anxious that, oh my god, I'd be so scared and so um Emily for you, UM, did you have a doula in the room with it? Not, but you had your husband in the room with you, and you went with the non Everyone's choosing the non clear drape. I'm guessing because it's major surgery and you don't know how you're going to react to seeing I guess your own stomach. I would say the patients that ask for the gentler approach, UM,

fifty will pick the clear drape. Um. There are other things associated with it, you know, if your goal is to try to do skin to skin right away, they have the heart monitors that are on mom's chest, more lateral so that there's room for the baby to beyond mom's chest, and things like that. But I'd say about fifty request the clear drape. UM. So Dr kumets, what are some of the reasons What are some of the

reasons for an emergency section? Like, did I say that correctly? Emergency? Second? Yeah, what would be some of the reasons that um that women have to do that, and how do you give them that information and how does one respond? I'm assuming this sometimes happens very quickly. UM. Thankfully, those true true quick emergencies are rare, but they do happen. UM. You know, somebody with a known previa who went into labor will probably start hemorrhaging pretty quickly, and that would be something

you would want to resolve quickly for them. Um. There are situations where the water breaks and suddenly the baby's umbilical cord comes out, and once the umbilical cord is past the cervix um, it starts clamping down, so baby is no longer getting oxygen and is one of those true quick, very scary, life threatening emergency situations for baby.

Mom is usually okay in that scenario, that's you know, babies in you know, imminent danger, and that is you rush that mom to the operating room and you get that kid out as fast as possible. And how fast are we talking like in a situation like that, how fast is that baby out of there? The goal is to get the baby out in less than ten minutes from when it's identified, so from you've identified it and then the baby is out and breathing within ten minutes.

Oh my god. In that kind of emergency situation, an experienced obee can go from skin to baby in seconds. Oh that's my Guy'm sorry. I'm just dead white on the phone right now. That's because I have goose bumps and my milk just came in and I'm not that's

not the goal, but that's possible, you know. Other scenarios would be something called a placental abruption, which is during labor, the placena suddenly separates from the wall of the uterus, and in that situation, both mom and baby are in danger. There's typically a lot of bleeding signs of fetal distress um leading to UH emergency in that scenario. Often, if it's a labor situation um that wasn't known about in advance,

emergencies typically come up either because of fetal distress or bleeding. Right, And that might that wouldn't be a situation where it's so fast. That might be something where you've been laboring for a while and things just are not progressing at all, and you're exhausted, and the fetus is heart rate is not at a happy place, and so then you start to have conversations with this is looking like we're going

to have to maybe in a different way exactly. You know, if if mom has been pushing for three hours and the baby hasn't moved in the last hour, that's the point where you start, at least you know, mentioning that this is something that may be necessary. And you know, obviously you're thinking about all the possible ways that you can help accomplish a natural delivery, both for mom and baby. But you know, as the doctor managing, I want to

start preparing for the possible need for surgery. Um. But yeah, the majority of time when cesareans are done after labor has started, it's usually because labor is failing in some way or the baby is not tolerating labor for whatever reason. Have you ever had someone can ask, of course, and that's such a round table. Girls like I don't want an epidural, Like give me a c section, but no anesthesia because they're like trying to have a natural Has

that ever happened? Does that happen? Or would they not let you do that? Well? I guess you know. Ultimately, we can't do anything to anybody without their consent. That's called the salt and battery and I really have no interesting so. Um, you know, with anesthesia, it's it's a personal preference. So I can do a natural delivery with or without anesthesia. Um, it looks really painful. I've never experienced it myself, but it looks really painful. I don't

know that i'd want to do it that way. Um, but you know, respect whatever choices people have for their birth experience. UM. I've never had anybody ask not to have anesthesia. Typically in that scenario. Um, if they don't have an epidural in place already and there isn't time to place a spinal um, it's typically under general anesthesia. Ah. Oh,

so if it's if they're right right. So, if someone was let's say in labor for a while and they were not having an epidural, and now all of a sudden you need a last minute emergency C section and it's too late to get the epidural in spinally, then you get general anesthesia. That's why they put you under general anesthesia. They put a tube down your throat and

they breathe for you. Nope. Wait yeah, yeah, yeah, that's like so that your whole thing is numb and you're not a word out that you're out, So has have you done that before? Many? Many times it's it's never. It's never a great situation. And even for the anesthesiologist because we anesthesia just hate doing general anesthesia on pregnant women.

Pregnant women tend to have more fluid on board, they tend to be more swollen, it's harder to ventilate them, um and understand how much they need or don't need. I'm sure, yeah, it's it's and huge fluid changes that they're having to manage, and um, you know, we try

to avoid general anesthesia with at all possible. If I have a patient who is you know, been pushing for two three hours, um, and it looks like we're heading towards a C section, I will often recommend at that point that they get an epidural so they don't have to have we have it in case or if if if mom's trying to go natural all and the baby is really looking unhappy, then again I'll suggest that they have the epidural placed so that we have it in the event that we needed and hope that we don't

need it. Um. And when when she says like baby being unhappy for you, guys to know. There's like monitors all on your stomach that are just gauging the heart rate of the baby, and so when there are major drops or it stays low for too long, that's when the baby's not happy. I remember during my C section that I started to feel really nauseous, like during the

like I guess the cutting or something. And my mysologists was like here like monitoring everything, and I was like, I think I'm gonna be sick, and he like did something and I was like, I'm better like that at I was like so much better, it was. Dilogists are so great. They're so good at their job. Emily, did you feel nauseous at all? Not during the C section? But I just remember feeling really cold and I shook it. What is this? Did you both shake? So the shaking

is really normal. Shaking can happen even just an epidural if you're not in a SA section right and after a natural delivery, it's very common for women to shake for you know, forty five minutes to an hour after the placentic comes out, your body is going through such huge hormone shifts and fluid shifts and um, you know, in addition to the adrenaline and the anxiety, and now you have this baby and everything seems to be going okay. Very very common to shake for about forty violent shaking.

I did not have any shaking, but I was petrified of it and I had been hearing about it and I didn't I'm now remembering I didn't have shaking. I was just cold, but I didn't have shaking because I asked Rebecca and she said no, I had. I like vomited after like yeah, like yeah, I was really nauseous. After two. I had the shaking. But it started for me really when I got to the recovery room and I actually had difficulty holding my daughter for a few minutes because I was I was shaking. Am I allowed

to do this? And it's a present because you were shaking being so hard too and also holding Tuesday. Um, can you guys tell me all about your partner's role during the C section? Like were they above the cloth? Like did they look? Did they were they scared about surgery the cloth? Um, he did not look. We decided that we weren't looking, and um, he was just there

to be supportive. That was Did he seem anxious as well about like watching his watch your significant other go through major surgery, right, No, he was calm, and I mean we trusted the doctors that we trusted everybody in the operating room, and we just were going going for it and then did because the is the significant other, not the baby. Also, after the baby comes out, like

how does that work? Often after a c section UM, when the baby first gets delivered, they're taken over to the warmer and want to make sure that they're warm. They want to make sure they're breathing okay. Because babies that are delivered via cessarean don't get the same squeeze that babies get coming through a birth canal, so they can often have a little bit of extra fluid within

their lungs. It takes them a little bit longer to transition to breathing air rather than breathing through their umbilical cord. So we want to make sure that the baby is transitioning well and they're pinking up and they're breathing okay, and that they look happy and healthy. Um, And that process can take you know, anywhere from two minutes to a lot longer than that if they're not doing okay. But assuming that you're in that typical two minutes and

they're doing okay. They'll typically at that point wrap the baby up and give the baby to dad to hold to bring over to mom. Um. If you want to try to do skin to skin or you know, some cudle time, at that point, that's the appropriate time to do it. Yeah. So he so Michael took the baby from the warmer and then handed and hurt to you, and Jason was um up by me the whole time. He was really nervous. My husband not great in the hospital.

He was so clean and so sweet, but he didn't really talk, but he was like looking at me in the eyes the whole time. And then we had our big camera and as soon as the baby was about to come out, he did look over, and I was shocked, and he looked over and he got all these amazing pictures of her coming out of me, which was like, I'm so glad now that he was brave enough to

do that. Um, and then he just started weeping and he went um to the They went to the warmer and she was only in there for like two seconds, like very short, because she was like big and very paink already and like crying the best and they didn't wrap her. She just came. He brought her to me naked, but then there was a blanket placed over us both. But I was that okay. I mean, I guess it was fine, but like she okay okay because Rebecca knew that I really wanted that. So, um, we've also had

on this oh interesting. But I do remember this strange feeling of like looking over, like what's happening, where's my baby? Because there's this like two or minute gap of like them coming up, they take her and before she's on me. So like there was like it's a weird feeling to not know what's going on because you can't move. I couldn't move my arms. I just remember being like, did all three of you stay in the hospital the three year?

Four nights? I know you said you did, Emily you did three days and you did as well, and um, we've already we've talked a lot about your um oh. But one thing I do want to say that I was told that did not happen is I was told like they like put your arms out and like I don't know, that didn't happen, Like I had my arms free. Sometimes I think in some situations they strap your arms out, and Rebecca had actually said that, like, usually it's like that,

but that was not the case. Did that happen with you? I don't remember. I know, it's weird not not remembering a lot of specifics. I think it's your brains tricking way for you to make more children. So that's probably hospital specific and becoming less common, especially when you have

an awake patient. When you're doing surgery on somebody who is completely out, you want to make sure that their arms aren't falling or getting pressed in a way that's you know, potentially going to injure a nerve or um cause a bruise. So we typically will strap people's arms down when they're having surgery and they're asleep, but if you're awake and having a C section and talking to us, generally we don't so. Um. Again, this is the hospitals

I've worked at typically don't that. That may be different in other places, but less common. Aul, Like you said, we talked about your recovery, which seemed very bloated heavily. You seem to have a great recovery time period, and what about you, Dr Kumets, how is yours. You were up and working too. I was UM, I was pretty swollen. UM. You know something that that we have to remember is UM, a woman's body actually increases her blood volume by about

thirty percent over the course of pregnancy. UM. And that's really in preparation for the expected bleeding that you're going to have afterwards. Whether it's a natural delivery a C section, you're expected to lose some some blood at that point, and you do have some bleeding afterwards, and the body is amazing in that it prepares for that. But you

just take on a lot of extra fluid in that situation. UM. And if you're having a C section, you do get extra fluid to make sure that we're maintaining your blood pressure okay. And you know that could be on the order of two to three leaders through the ivy UM over the course of that hour surgery or so. And you know, if you were somebody that had been in labor for twenty four hours plus, you know, prior to ending up with a C section, you've gotten a whole

lot of fluid in that time frame. And UM, typically a few days after the baby comes out, your body realizes, oh, I'm okay, and I'm not pregnant anymore. I don't need all this extra fluid in my blood vessels, and it dumps it into the extra spaces in your body and pulls it all into your feet. So um, by day six, I didn't have a single pair of shoes I could get my feet and I couldn't leave the house. I could not get my feet into a single pair of shoes.

Do you vaginally bleed like for after you deliver vaginally? You know, you're like in a diaper for anywhere from one week, two weeks, four weeks. You know, it's like having just like a heavy period for like a while as your uterus is shedding all that stuff in there. Um.

Is it similar with c section? Often the bleeding is a little bit less because we do clean the uterus out a little bit at the time we removed the placenta and we clean everything out, so often the bleeding is less with the C section than with the natural delivery. But normal bleeding is anywhere from two weeks to two months. Did you guys have that? I had some Like I

didn't have light periods. It was like a period. I just were like a pad for about two weeks and did the same was pretty heavy actually, but and I wasn't expecting that. I think I thought it would be like a period and I was like, oh wow, I am wearing cloth diapers right, Oh yeah, yeah, guys, the closes are my favorite panties should be sold like at

the gap. Thanks so much. They're so comfortable. Here's another thing, and this might be too personal and you totally don't have to answer, but there's that I find that men or even women like make jokes about, oh, I had a c section, so my vagina is still that of like a sixteen year old something that just got really weird. But you get what I'm saying, Like, like is that true?

Like do you guys find post surgery and c section that like your your vaginas are like totally like how they were before you got pregnant or is everything kind of changed anyway because you were pregnant. I mean, my vagina is tight open, of course it's type, But I like, does it feel the same. I mean, it's the same to me, nothing changed. See that is that's great because it does not guys not like I'm not I mean,

you know what I mean. It's just like when you have intercourse for the first time, and hopefully maybe someday we will do an episode about this. But when you have intercourse after you've had vaginal birth, I mean, it's it's intense, like it's it's a different situation, and I have heard it goes back um to feeling great. So I was curious about that for C section people. UM, what are some important steps Dr Kumets that patients can

take to help with their recovery? Uh, also great question. UM. I think starting out by having reasonable expectations for what it's going to be like, understanding that you are going to be in pain and you are going to need help doing things. UM. Understanding that it is major abdominal surgery and that does require recovery time. UM. Getting up

and walking right away is huge. Um. One of the best things you can do is to get up, and you know, even if it hurts, you know, getting out of bed and walking the halls, it's going to mobilize that fluid faster. It's gonna wake your bowels up. You know, pregnant women tend to be constipated, and that doesn't just resolve immediately upon delivery. And if you're taking pain medicine,

particularly narcotic pain medicine, which can be constipating. That is also, you know, straining having a bowl movement is kind of unpleasant when you have literally scared. I was too with the vaginlu birth also was taking like that first poop, You're like, I'm so scared right now, Like it was so scary. Um, did you guys feel that way as well? I mean, it wasn't great. It wasn't like it was definitely scary, I think, but I went to the bathroom. I think that day, like I'm I had. It was weird,

but it was very big nice. It was that good. I feel like it was. I never I took a picture of it and crazy, Sure that was great because I feel like I was so scared, just because when you've pushed a baby out and then you have to post that I'm so scared that I'm going to just blow everything out again? Right, And I remember being scared I was going to hurt my stitches. Yeah, you won't hurt your stitches, right, I can. I can assure you that no one has ever popped stitches from streaming to

a movement. It will hurt, but you won't pop this. Okay, Um, did so I know andrelague. You're still breastfeeding and Emily breastfed for after her delivery. Did you guys find that breastfeeding um it was more difficult because of having a C section? Did you find it um? I didn't like, did they teach you a certain way to hold the baby after you have a C section? Because I imagine with this scar that wasn't really near it. The babies are so little, they're up here and like your scars

way down here. I mean you still got like a little tummy when you're learning. But No, I didn't find it hard hard. No, and you either really really clearly yeah, and the way you went, Yeah, c sections really shouldn't impact um breast breast milk production. That's that's a myth that's out there that you get very concerned that they're not going to be able to breastfeed or that they're not going to make milk right away because they didn't labor. That's not true. That's not true. My milk came in.

I remember it being like, oh, like that next day, like it was right. Is that supposed to with within the first three or four days, full milk should come in And that's regardless of motive delivery. How does your bear body just knows like that the baby's out whichever way it got out, it's time for milk to come in. Let's send us out and baby is latching and that's the stimulation for your brain to make the oxytocin horn known to trigger the milk production. It's amazing how you dozing,

It's amazing. I mean, how is this all even happening? I don't understand. Um, how do you women all feel about your c section scar? Like? Has anyone braved? You know? I mean, look, I'm not braving. I mean I gave up Aikin's like ten years ago, but like, you know, like, how do you feel about having an incision scar there? And you know, when you are looking at yourself the mirror or when you go out in public in those crop tops. No one's doing that right anymore. It's actually

really low And I didn't realize that. I Like, I got the scar cream that you can put on it, and I haven't used it because you don't see it because it's right above the pubic bone. It's often, you know, either right above or right at the top of the pubic CareLine. It. So that was surprising to me too, because you can't see it in any underwear. It's below you. I don't care about the scar at all. I'm like kind of proud of it because to me, it's like my warrior. I like love it and it's small. What

I'm more concerned about is like the pooch. I'm like, when does the like that to me? Because you've cut through stomach muscle correct, So that's actually we don't cut through I'm not a doctor. That's okay. There's there's a separation um in the abdominal muscles, and we separate the large abdominal muscles vertically, so the stitches that are inside are actually in several different directions, in different layers. The goal being to try to keep normal anatomy to the

extent possible, so we don't cut through the muscles. Um. But surgical technique for repairing. Some doctors will put the muscles back together. UM. I personally do. I think it ends up looking better than if they're not put together. UM. But the recovery is a little bit harder for the first week when they are put together, because there are now stitches through the muscle, and anytime you use your muscles, like to get into and out of bed or um in and out of chair, up and downstairs. Um, it's

to pull on those stitches and that hurts. And I remember about breastfeeding, like I chose to keep my baby in her own crib, in her own room from day one because it was part of the sleep training method that I did. And the hardest part was those stitches, like getting up every three hours to go breastfeed her because I didn't want the baby coming into my room and that was hard, Like that was probably the hardest part. Yeah, was painful, those stitches, Like you could really feel that right.

Abdominal binders help a lot um and that's a good tip guys to be underused. Are those the like binding like those I wore them too, Like belly bandage band It makes it great when a lot of hospitals will offer them. It's basically a giant ace bandage that is just kind of holding all all your banks around your thighs.

But they make ones that velcrow around your stomach. And I actually found it really helped too because I didn't have a C section scar, but I but I what I felt inside was all this space and my organs had moved out of the way for where the baby was growing, and then all of a sudden, the baby's gone. And so when you would sleep on your side, I could literally feel all my like insides go to one side and then shift to the other side when I'd roll in the middle the night, which was very uncomfortable

and kind of weird feeling. And so if I wore the binding thing, it just felt like everything was far more supported, um and not like wiggling around so much in there. Um. Before we get to the end here, I want to ask three, you know, let's just go

through this a little bit. Um. Can you guys talk a little bit about the stigma surrounding c sections and UM talk about I think we got into this a little bit, which helped Jelique mentally prepared for changing her the way she was thinking about giving birth this way, but how a c section people don't consider it actually like giving birth, Like what what what is that? I What I find bothers me is that when people say, oh, you gave birth the old fashioned way, I'm like, what

the hell is that? You know what I mean? Or um, because you got to push or something that that makes one labor better? Than the other. Um, there's definitely a stigma. I felt felt another part of this. You did, for sure.

And I remember being like, yeah, I'm having like talking about as I'm getting closer to my due date, speaking about like oh, I'm going in at five am or whatever on this date, and people being like oh, like that there was like a there was a tone that people would receive that information and like almost with like pity, like don't but don't pity, like it's fine, Like it's fine. I think there's a stigma about that. It's like a failure of some kind as a woman or a pregnant

person having a baby. And I was very shock surprised at that I didn't. And Emily, who who electively had a c sections like no, I'm actually really looking forward to I think there's so much competitiveness as women and as parents and you know, as moms that I didn't want to subscribe to any of that, Like my birth

is more valid than yours. And you know, when you raise a kid, it's about your family unit and what works best for you as a family, and it's not about what someone that you went to high school with thinks about and posted on Facebook. You know, it's like, did you find yourself when people would ask you and you'd say, no, I chose to do this, and I'm

really excited. Did you find yourself really like digging in and like making a stand when you would tell that Yeah, I mean, yeah, I definitely did because I it was my choice and I'm happy and proud. I mean, I'm talking about it on a podcast, you know. I get like it was what was right for us, and that's what as moms we have to do for our families.

That's true. Yeah, I would like defend my I would defend it, and then once you kind of explain like no, I have to for medical reasons otherwise baby and myself or in danger, like oh okay, I get like, but it's also the method in what your child was. I also think l A is the worst in general as far as what you're saying. The competition of how you have your baby and do you use endesty asia, and like are you breastfeeding? The breastfeeding too. It's like everyone's

judging everything all the time. If you have to go back to work, if you don't go back to work. I find I found myself being really sensitive to the vocabulary I used, which was I had to get really comfortable with saying the word vaginally because I didn't I've had a lot of really great friends, close friends give birth through c section, and I didn't want to ever say like mine was natural versus yours, that's my own

personal preference, like whatever. But I would just say, oh, I had my baby vaginally, which like, try saying that word a lot, like in front of dudes. Why do they get so weird? I'm like, guys, vagina, vagina, vagina, vagina, Get over it. I don't get the stigma either. Um. You know, when you get to decide what happens to your body, whether it's an elective C section or in the situation where it's not elective and there's a medical reason to do it, you're making the choice that's the

best thing for you and your baby. And birth means a child has come out of you, regardless of the way child came out of you. When a child comes out of you, you have given birth, and it I truly don't understand the the reason that there's a stigma associated with that. Um. They're both super scary and super

exciting at the same time. UM, really quick and the last question, is there anything that comes to mind that you would uh that you wish someone had told you before you had a C section, Like a little piece of advice, a little anything. I know these are always because I can't ever think of anything either. I think the bell I would say, like just know that you're going to still look pregnant, and like that your clothes,

like what are you gonna wear? Like that was a really big thing for me, like I didn't know how to dress. I remember going to my first table read and I was like, I have no clothes that fit me, and I didn't want to wear my pregnancy clothes because they're tight. Oh I work by pregnancy clothes for a good nine months because they were so much more comfortable

than anything else I owned. But a lot of the pregnancy clothes hug your bump, and then once you have the baby, you don't want your bump out there because then there's nothing in there, you know. I found that really confused maternity where is I wish someone is still subject to? For me, A lot of it's not good.

It's not just gonna s great, it's not great. But you would suggest would be getting some nice new clothes that made you feel better in a bigger size that you exactly like I wish I had feel like, yes, I just had a baby, and I look good, and I like how I look in this Like yeah, like go to Gap or whatever, any old navy and just buy like a couple of dresses or move moves that are just a couple of size bigger than what you

normally wear and wear that so you feel pretty. I would get that too, because I would have people come over and like not have anything. And I didn't fit back into my old clothes for sure, but I definitely did feel a little bit weird about my maternity clothes as well. Um, Emily anything you would say, twenty four year old brother made a great playlist baby time and

it was you know, it was wonderful. But um, I think the only thing that was incredibly shocked to me as I lost the ability to um know that I had to pee for like a few months. And I don't know if that's common. I just like I would have to look at the clock and be like, oh, I should go to the bathroom because I could go all day and be like, what's going on here? Um? And that was the biggest surprise I think it's not uncommon for the bladder to get a little stunned after

after a C section. Um, we actually have to move the bladder off of the uterus because it's typically attached to the lower part of euterus, typically where we're making the incision to get the baby out. So we move the bladder off of the uterus, and that can affect some of the nerves to the bladder, and it's not uncommon to feel some difficulty controlling your bladder. Um, you know, anywhere from a day or two to a few months afterwards. Oh that's that's good to know. See, Like, here's all

the stuff, guys. Nobody tells you, but we will want Katie's grip and Dr Coomb as any advice or something you wish someone had told you before you yourself had a C section. Um, well, I'd actually like to answer slightly different questions. I would say, approach your pregnancy by trusting your doctor. Um. As I mentioned at the beginning, you know, babies and uterus is just often don't read the birth plan. They are just not on board with

what your goals are. And um, you know, I try to liken um birth and birth plans and when patients come to me with their seven page, single line type typed birth preferences, which I think is a better term than birth plan. Um. You know, I tried to explain to them. You know, think about your delivery. As you have charted a really expensive private flight, there's a lot

of choices that you can make on that trip. You can decide if you want to sit in the window seat or you want to sit in the aisle seat. You can decide if you want to fly around the mountains or you want to fly over the lake. You can decide if you want to have chicken or fish for lunch. And I might make some suggestions in there, like I think the chicken is better than the fish.

But ultimately those choices you're yours. But if the plane's going down, let me take care of you, and you have to trust that your doctor can fly the plane and make sure that you have a relationship with the person who's taken care of you that if they're saying to you, look, this is an emergency and we really have to go ahead and do this, or you know, they're altering your plan in some way, there's usually a reason and hopefully there will be enough time to explain

that reason to you. But if there isn't trust them that this is really in your best interest. Amazing you guys. I can't thank you all enough for doing this fancy, fancy version of Katie's Crib in this awesome recording booth and um. Thank you guys for all of your advice and words of wisdom and sharing your experiences with your c section. And thank you guys all listening to this episode of Katie's Crib. You never know