Postpartum & Baby Proofing Your Relationship w/ Dr. Alyssa Berlin

is enough. I honestly feel like I should be doing also a side gig, a side hustle of like twenty six episodes just on postpartum depression and postpartum feelings and how to emotionally prepare for it. So we are lucky enough to be sitting here with the most incredible person named Dr Elissa Berlin. She is a prenatal and postpartum clinical psychologist whoo whoop, as well as a faculty member

on the Maternal Mental Health Now Training Institute. She created the after Birth Plan Workshop, which is a program that prepared as couples for what to expect after the baby is born. Why didn't I do that? I don't know. Uh. Since her and her husband, who I know and will get into that her husband is a pre natal chiropractor. They have four amazing children, yes I said four. So you are personally an expert on all of this and professionally an expert on all this we can say that.

Um so today we're gonna be talking about how to emotionally prepare for postpartum and also how to baby proof your relationship. Thank you so much for being on Katie's crib. Let's talk quickly about how we know each other. First of all, Hi, Hi, how's it going, Katie. I'm so happy to see you. You're amazing. We are friends. We text and it is one of those amazing relationships where I would just wish I saw you more because I think you're such a ray and gem of human being.

But I know Dr Lista Berlin because her husband. I was working on scandal Um when I was pregning with my son, so I was standing eighteen hours a day and a round. Month five six is when my low back started to really get fucked up and everyone was like, there's only one guy to see and that's Dr Berlin. And so he is a chiropractor that works on women who are pregnant, which most chiropractors I would say, don't do that. They don't, right, So it's really special that

he really special. He's also a du la. He knows a lot. I'm in there getting myself adjusted. He saved my back. I didn't have back pain for one day after seeing him weakly religiously for the rest of my pregnancy. And he was like, yeah, but have you met my wife? And then I met you and I was like, who gives a ship about Dr Berlin? I mean your husband, Dr Brlin. I was like, where it's at is Dr Alyssa Berlin, Um, So tell us what you do for a living for sure? So I am, like you said,

I'm a paran neatal psychologist. I work with individuals, couples, families to help them ideally prepare for the transition to postpartum and then working on the postpartum signed with whatever kind of hits the fan and whatever struggles come up along the way. My passion is definitely in prevention. So if I can get my hands on every expecting new couple before they have baby and help prepare them for what's coming next, that's my dream because to nott a

thing because it's not a thing. It's not a thing. It's the hardest thing because I do these workshops all the time, and getting people to invest in prevention is so hard. And let's be honest, we still live in an area where mental health is somewhat stigmatized. So my solution is to get every O bian midwife to make twenty eight weeks and pregnancy your postpartum check in week. Like in your dream world, it would be like a twenty eight weeks you get to have some sort of

mental check in or preparation workshop or something like that. Exactly, at twenty eight weeks, your doctor says, hey, go take the afterbirth plan and come back and report back to me so we can talk about it. Yeah, you think it wouldn't be that difficult and it's so necessary. Then there's no stigmas. No, why is she signaling me out? Like what is it about me that she thinks it's

going to be a problem. It's like, oh, you check the position of the baby, you check blood sugar, check into postpartum, great, and then come back and report back to me. I love this, that's my passion. I love it. And this is a workshop that you have a creative you created, created it. It is all I do it worldwide via webcam. It's online, it's self pace to do at your own house. Um, I can't believe your birth for children, and you were just telling me it wasn't

even an easy road for you to get pregnant. It's not like whoops a daisy the first one happened, and whoops a daisy the next you know. It wasn't like you were this fertile myrtle like popping them out every second. It was a road for you, it really was. It took us seven years and we went down that entire infertility path. Um we tried I U I I VF I mean road that path so closely didn't happen, And funny enough, at the right time when it did work,

it just worked. And in between the four like they really just came wow, and did you have any postpartum depression postpartum blues? You know? So it was very interesting because we live in California, We have no family out here, all of our families back on the East Coast, and so we really were on our own. So thankfully I didn't have any postpartum depression. Definitely some blues going on, but it was after my second one was born. That I just was like, there's got to be more out there.

And that's really what set me on this quest to figure out what's in the research, what's in the data, what's practically available, because there's got to be something like there's no way that we just have a baby and we just say, Okay, now you're on your own figure it out. But that is what it is. But we're not going to let that be what it is anymore. Yeah, you and me've together hand in hand. I was not prepared. I had done everything on the list. I had bought

all the stuff. I had a lactation specialist book to come to the house. I had really done my workshops on a vaginal birth versus necessarian birth, like I had done all of the sort of scientific boxes you check off the list, and then had a beautiful pregnancy. I had a beautiful labor, and as soon as I got home,

I lost my fucking ship. And the only thing I had done which was preventative was I had had a conversation with my husband that sounded something like, if we get to two weeks postpartum and you look at me and you don't recognize what you see or what you're hearing, please tap me on the shoulder and tell me to call my therapist because I don't know if I'm going to have the wherewithal to recognize it within myself, and you're my partner in this, and if you're feeling like

I'm in a funk and I can't get out, And he tapped me on the shoulder and he was like, I'm taking notes from the night nurse because I think you're going to get on a plane and live in Europe with a false identity and I'm going to be raising our child by herself because you are, uh, not liking this. I remember breaking down, crying, saying I'm not temming any fun a lot, and um, my therapist was wonderful and we checked in and I couldn't get out of the house because I was sitting on donuts and

bleeding and I was a disgusting mess. And I did phoners with her, and after a couple of sessions, at the very least, I was making fun of the whole situation, so I knew that there was comedy there and there was humor, which to me is always a way out. And it lifted and shifted around week four and six, but we've had guests on this show and close friends of mine who it did not lift, and I mean not getting into bed for six months, I mean life

changing and also worse with the second. And it's interesting, and first, let's even acknowledge how insightful and intuitive you are that you even had the wherewithal to say that to Adam beforehand. Both probably don't even do that, and they really don't, because, you know, first of all, it's this thing that we put blinders on and we're just so afraid of and we just kind of want to ignore that. We just keep moving. And again that notion of there's nothing to do to prepare for postpartum. So

I'm off the huck, you know, really it does. You're supposed to be happy, like you're like, this is supposed to be the greatest time in your life. You just had a baby. My best friend had a baby right before I did, and she was on her knees having a completely different experience than me. She was like, I wake up in the middle of the night crying because I'm so happy. I never felt like this, And she was like, I am so in love with my husband and I'm so in love with my baby, and I'm

just scared that something bad is going to happen. Now, she was having more of an anxiety reaction where I was just crying and peeing on the floor, like I just was a disaster area. But she was having a polar different experience. And that's when I was like, holy sh it, we are not prepared for this for sure. Well and even as you say that, like the term in the field now is perry natal mood and anxiety disorders. When we talk about postpartum illnesses, that's what we're talking

about now. We're not talking about just depression. We're talking about anxiety, tell me, obsessive compulsive disorder, bipolar, post traumatic stress disorder, mania, and in rare but severe cases, psychosis. So it really really runs the gamut. And the other our side of it is is that we know that can start doing pregnancy, you know, and for some women, like you said, it's going to be anxious. For some it's even going to be rageful. This just uncontrolled, bridal rage.

They don't even know where it's coming from. And talk about a sham talking about this. We're talking about that it's happening. That's horrible. Oh, it makes me so upset and if I can express I felt just from going through my experience now when people have babies and I send them texts, people I know, I'm always very careful in that I don't text things which really triggered me postpartum,

which was aren't you so blessed out? I used to get texts like that, and I would feel so upset that I wasn't feeling those things because exactly now, when I send text to people who have babies, I say things like, you're incredible, You're doing great, I'm here for you if you need anything. What else can you say? But that's perfect because it's a reassurance that we all need. And I want you to know a third of this workshop that I do is all of Perry neatle mood

and anxiety disorders. Let's give you the education beforehand. Let's do what you did, which is really bring partners into the mix and say, hey, you're likely going to be the first one to notice that your partner is struggling. And if that happens, here's what you can say. Here's what we don't want you to say. It's no one's fault these things happen. It's also super treatable. So let's really get on top of that. Do you think people

don't want to do preventative work because they're scared? Do you think there are women and partners who are like, let's not even acknowledge that it's a possibility, because if we do, then it's going to get in our head and it's going to happen for sure. It's like the same thing of I don't want to say it out loud because once I put words to it, then it's real. And what do you say to that? So what I

say is is like exactly what you say. First of all, it's not catchy, and it's really quite the opposite, right that information and education is powerful. You're so right, because you are because my biggest fear in my whole life was labor. And what did I do. I looked at it square in the fucking face, and I spent ten

months studying as much as I could. So, I mean, the nurses were so blown away at seaters by how many questions and answers I had to my experience, and it was fucking awesome, But it was because I was fucking prepared and I was like, I knew exactly what was happening, what I was feeling. I felt like it was all mine to be had in every way that could have been thrown my way. Like, I just felt like I was armed with knowledge for sure, for sure, And you look the bully in the face and you

stared him down. Yes, that's how I felt. And that's anxiety. Anxiety tricks us into thinking we've never done this before, so we can't possibly have any resources or tools to bring to the table. It's not true, not because even if you've never had a baby before, you've been in situations that have been trying and challenging physically or emotionally, and whatever work then is going to work here too. And so we don't want to come in thinking we've got nothing at our disposal. We've got a ton of

stuff at our disposal. We just need to know when to remember to bring it into this context for sure. That's and go you, by the way, because I was awesome. That's so great to know that this, this preventative work, I feel like, is a real a real game changer, and a real thing that is not out there. Um, you also said it staggering statistic to me, which was how many women feel some sort of blues situation after a baby. So upward of eighty percent of women experience

the blues, guys, So it's not even it's normal. Anything that eight percent of a population is experiencing, in my book, is completely normal. And it's what we now understand is it's part of this collaboration that happens after you have a baby. Your hormones were at these crazy all time highs and they come low, they plumb it really quickly, and your body and your brain just needs time to

again just to readjust to that. Part of the experience is going to be feeling out of sorts, crying for no reason, not feeling like yourself, not feeling grounded in this new experience. And one of the things that we hear women, or that I hear women talk about all the time, is just feeling overwhelmed. You're recovering not just from birth, but from pregnancy, and then someone throws you a baby and says, here, now take care of this

seven Oh my god, you guys, it's a lot. And then they're like, guess what at three months you go back to work or less or never, which is also another question. I mean, there's just a lot of identity shifts happening at one time while you're dealing with hormones. Whether you decide to breastfeed or not, that's a whole hormonal leap when you stop, when you start, you know, all of these things. Um, one more statistic to throw into the myth LEAs that's two thirds of couples experience

it's a client in their relationship satisfaction after having a baby. Yeah, I mean, all of a sudden, there's another thing, like, you know, you're used to being in a relationship. If you are in one, that it's just you and that person, and that's the priorities and whatever. So let's segue into that. How in the hell should I have baby proof my I love this? Is this your terminology to baby proof the relationship baby or? Is that a thing? Right? It's like out there and like the pop culture and the

pop world, all this love baby proving. Yeah. I went with the afterbirth plan figuring Again, everyone's focuses on creating a birth plan, but who really thinks of an afterbirth plan? No? Oh,

so it really is about people making a actual plan. Really, like people who are listening who had a birth plann er didn't just to clarify like a birth plan would be like it would be lovely to not have an epidural, or have an epidural, or they literally list cut the cord, not cut the cord after this amount of time, or have this person in the room, not have this person

in the room. They kind of write down although now the term more is birth goals, so that we don't get so connected to the plan, I might have to change that plan right now exactly. So maybe it has to be the afterbirth goals, you know, maybe we have to kind of go with that. They after birth plan. I think it's great. Hey, if you like it, I think it's great. What would be the examples of, um,

what people would put in an afterbirth plan? So that's a great question, right, So I'm even going to take a step back first because when I think about relationships, I think about walking up and down. Ask later, because I use that escalator analogy to kind of highlight what are the things we want to put in that afterbirth plan. So let's stick with that, right, Relationships are like walking up a down escalator. What does that mean? You put in a little bit of effort, you'll make some headway,

put in a more effort, you'll make more headway. The second you stop actively climbing, that escalator is just naturally going to bring you down. Yeah, and that's relationships, right. Think about it. Put a little bit of effort into your relationship, you'll be closer. More effort, you'll be even closer. But the second you stop actually mindfully investing in that relationship, the stress of life, the responsibility of life, just naturally

brings you down and farther apart. Having a baby speeds up that escalator and it requires us to double our efforts to stay connected. So part of that escalator is what are the things that pull us apart and pull us down? Incidentally, I'm totally with you because ground zero for me is forgetting to have fun. Hello, I feel

like that's got to be most women, right. Okay, Well, and let me tell you, Like our oldest came home or almost came home in a towel, right because we didn't do a lot of preps before, Like in our culture, you don't really do much before. So after we had the baby, Elliott went to you know the toys r Us Babies are us and got the stuff on our registry.

He comes home with this or he came to the hospital with this thing, and we're sitting there trying to swaddle the baby, and these nurses are like laughing at us on the side and they're like, idiots, it's a towel. That's why you can't swaddle your baby. Yeah, towel does not make a good swaddle, not at all. That's hilarious.

But again, here was one of those moments where we either could have looked at each other with daggers of like I can't believe you brought a towel to our first baby, you know, or we could have been like it's hilarious. And this story not only that, like when we quilted out his baby clothing. Let me tell you that's howel is Friends and Center. That was our start of parents. I love it. So after birth plan, tell me what would be on people's list? Is it like

appointments for therapy? Like that was mine. So that was the only plan I had, And that's a great plan. And definitely again use those resources that you have and if you have a therapist in place, already have them on special right. But so I start with first and foremost things that you need to do to charge your batteries and for me charging your batteries quote unquote is charging you know, the birthing partner, the non birthing partner, the couple, and the family. So there are four entities

every week that need nurturing and attention. It's not a guilty pleasure. It's a necessity, right. And it's funny because I was listening to a different Katie's Crew where they talk about the analogy of the airplane mask, getting on your air mask on use it all the time. I think about it in my head all the time. I'm like literally playing with my kid and I'm like, I have to pee or whatever it is. But I'm just like, no,

I have to happen. And now it's become the thing where it's like even if I have to go to the bathroom, you know, really go to the bathroom. I say to him, I have to have private time, like I'm sorry, Like you're too. I have been sitting here for two hours uncomfortably like playing with you because I didn't see you it all this morning, and I feel

bad about that. So I'm going to get in my quality two hours arown and I'm not going to leave ten minutes to like go to the bathroom when I'm probably going to be better at mommy ing if I just take the ten minutes and go to the bath And that's exactly it. Although Elliott always joked with me, He's like, you may have taught our kids the word privacy, you haven't taught them the concept. And I'm like, not my choice. Hello, if you're home, I'll go by myself.

So it's self care. So that first thing is self re charged. And again I'll use the analogy or I'll come at it from the perspective of I would never set my four kids down at the table and say, hey, guys, I see that you're all hungry, but I'm hungry too, so I'm going to feed myself first and then you guys, right,

that's okay. It's like, no, you'd be shot shot. But that happening again that notion of maybe it should be that way, because if I'm starving, like you said, what kind of experiences then are going to be You're going to be the hangryest bit like terrible. There's nothing worse than mommying when you're starving, and that's it. So it has to start with self care because you can't give what you don't have period, your batteries are drained, you get nothing to get and again grab a snack bar

and then go into dinner. It's a game changer, you know, or a chocolate bar. If sure, sure so starts with self care, then I'm a big proponent. Right. The things on that escalator that bring you together are daily time to talk, date moments, not date nights. I think date nights stock after having a baby, because anything that competes with sleep doomed to fail. Date moments, daytime dates, sex huge. It's got to be there, and we wanted there on

a weekly basis. And then yes, and then there are very practical things in terms of who is your lactation consultant, which friends, family professionals are you going to call if you need someone to talk to, And don't just put names, put phone numbers because especially for struggling with any kind of depression or anxiety, the more barriers they're, the less

likely you're going to follow through. But if you have a piece of paper that you're partner handed you and said, hey, it says cal Stacey and here's her number, it's a whole lot easier to do. Interesting. So you're after plan after birth plan, is it given to your partner. Let's say, who can sort of hold you accountable to the after birth plan? You guys work on it together. You guys hold each other account exactly. It's something that couples do together.

So first of all, it's an actual document, a two sided page document. I tell them photocopy, it's stash it all over the house because it's your lifeline of resources. And then we hold each other accountable. Because men or non birthing partners also struggle with postpartum illnesses. They also struggle with p mats. Really absolutely, what dare you even talking about? Like they can have the saying, oh, of course,

they can have anxiety, they can have denxiety depressions. So for men, oh my god, my husband jokes constantly about the weight he put on after I had a baby. Do you know what I mean? Like, I don't know

what the hell that's about. Seriously and very unendearing. Elliott at our son's circumcision ceremonies was so like out of sorts, talked about this kernel of popcorn stuck in his tooth and how hard the birth was on him because he couldn't get that Colonel out of his and I just looked at him with daggers of like, yeah, it sucks for you, doesn't it. Oh my god? Now, what are the signs if it's really bad? What should we be telling people listening to look out for it? Because is

this like a technical term post part and blues? Is that real baby blues we talk about? Is that? Okay, that's what I had, because it definitely shifted and I could get out of bed and I was getting up to breastfeed, and my therapist was asking me key questions like that, like are you getting up to feed him? Do you feel like you want to do anything dangerous to yourself or to your baby? And things like that,

and I did not feel that way. And I was making fun of myself endlessly, which was like thank god I had was able to laugh, you know. Um, And then again I did feel myself come back to myself. But to be honest, I did not feel like myself

until my baby turned probably eighteen months two years. And I don't know if that's because I stopped breastfeeding in a year, but like it's only now that I'm like, oh right, remember this ship, Like you're like a person, right, So what are the signs that people should be looking for within themselves or partners or loved ones or parents should be looking for when they're like, you know what, I really feel like we are not enough and professionals

need to be seeked. And eighteen months to two years is actually a really long time. And what I would question or wonder if there weren't like different steps along the way, you know, in terms of time frame. Right, let's kind of you know, talk about that for a second. Usually two to three days after birth, for the first two to three weeks is the realm of baby blues. I had that right exactly. We're talking upwards of people between those two days and three weeks. It's a real sad, weird, sad,

weird out of sorts. Myself crying out of nowhere, laughing for no reason, although not usually as bothers had. Both of I had all that. That's it. We feel so out of control and out of sorts, and there's so

many things that are happening. My sister was that go to person of like, I don't even know what's coming out of me anymore, but that feeling of like just all over the place, super out of control, right, And The thing to know about the baby blues is that, first of all, it usually does go away on its own. There are things that we can do to help it go away. Anything you're going to do to take care of your physical self is going to be really helpful.

So really good nutritive food, you know, walk around the block. Al mighty shower is amazing. Almighty shower is that was my gear up every single night. I would like take a shower at like six thirty to like prepare to get through the evening, and I would just let the water hit my back and would sob right. Um. So, then after that three week period, So after that three week period and first son, you know, the p mats

can even start to encroach on that time. But really at that three week mark, if there's still stuff going on, we've segued out of the baby blooth and we've segued into something bigger, into those p mats. So Perry natal mood and anxiety disorders Perry natals from conception through that first year of life, and that's usually that time period that we're looking at. And like we said, mood and anxiety disorders, it's depression, anxiety, obsessive compulsive disorder, which I

probably see the most of. Yeah, what does that look like? What are the symptoms of that? You know? So it's that combination of the obsession, this intrusive thought that's just sticky and won't go away, and then a compulsion or a behavior you know, either mental or you know, something

in actuality that we do to alleviate that anxiety. So we all have intrusive thoughts in our lives, right, we all have those, you know, weird thoughts of like, gosh, what would happen if like the hatch on the plane opens up and you're like, Okay, that was weird, and then we kind of like go back to reading our book and hope that Niagara falls and thinks about what happen, like what happens my fault, what happens if their very honest or like being in trafic and just wanting to

zoom your way through and then you come right, So totally normal. Someone who struggles with O c D. It's like there's chewing gum stuck to the end of that thought and they can't seem to shake it. And the more it lingers, the more it starts to build up this anxiety this feeling of just a live wire going through your body. And what they do is is that they need to do something to make it go away. So the woman who's afraid of germs may wash her

hands until they're bleeding, you know. The person who's afraid of dropping their baby will never carry their baby up the stairs. Yeah, and that's a very popular one. It's actually one of the more common ones that we see with postpartum. Yeah, are there any women that feel like the car accident situation, because that was the one where I was like, oh, we're all dying, like or I was like kept seeing just t bone into my car, baby and car seat flying through air. Well, let's think

about it. You I have a heart or a lung or in Oregon on the outside, like, we don't feel any more vulnerable than when we have a baby, and that feel it's hard fighting right and then again so we do something or we need that constant reassurance You're sure it's okay, you're sure he's okay, you're sure he ate enough? Did you really eat enough? How many ounces

did you take it? Right? And then it's like okay, right until that thought crops up again and we kind of go back into that same pattern I've I've had so many moms really harp on one or two or three things in the beginning, and then it's so funny once they get some space and some time from it. Like I was one of those. I was obsessed with how much he was eating, because when you're breastfeeding, it's

hard to be able to tell. And he's not eating enough, and he's small, and he's not needing enough an he's small and and he's not getting weight. So that became my obsession. I have some you know, who are obsessed with their baby has a lot of reflux, so they become obsessive about an elimination diet to figure out what it is. But it's like literally eating them away, like

how to fix this? But my guess is if it doesn't move into a true postpartum depressed shin or true like we're looking into medication and we're looking into some not a true depression or anxiety or obsessive compulsive that's kind of lifts on its own within some time. So and that's what we know. So really after three weeks, anything that's happening on that other side really is going to require a professional help good to know, right, So like one out of seven about you know, women will

struggle with a postpartum depression. One out of seven ladies listen to that. One out of seven will feel after three weeks a real still sadness that is not lifted or shifted and it's time together. And how many do we know are dealing with anxiety or and so that's really interesting and I'm pretty convinced that the statistics are wrong. People aren't talking about right three to six percent we think for O c D or that's what we have documented.

There's no And again it's what I'm seeing more than anything. What do people do when they see that we've made it over the three week mark and we're getting worse or we're not get any better. And that's where professional help comes in. Um psychotherapy is huge medication when you know the right time in the right place is awesome, absolutely and a huge part of the picture. And again here's one of those things where there's so much stigma.

But unless you're in your that person shoes, no judgment, none, because no one should struggle or suffer when they have a baby. And it's so treatable. We want everything you need to make yourself a better mom and I feel better. Well, anything that's going to make you feel better about yourself is going to make you a better mom. And done. I mean the things they're both so cyclical. So what do people do who are listening that maybe don't live in Los Angeles or a big city. How do they

find do all therapists specialized in postpartum depression? Like, how would you even find? Like? Is? You'll send me some link for that that we can like, because I'm so obsessed with helping women in this postpartum time. Because look, you Katie Scribb listeners, you know me. I'm pretty fucking jovial. I'm a very glass half full person. I was super stoked to become a mom and I could have never seen it coming that out of my friends who all had babies, all at a very similar time, I was

the one who was super fucking sad. And I don't think my husband really saw that coming either. The one thing that I kept coming back to, which I really feel like was my experience, was I had this guest on Kay's Crib named Talia. She's incredible, and she created this beautiful baby food that was Albie's first foods um and she's a duel also, and I did a workshop with her and she had postpartum depression and had to

take medication. She's very open about it, but she was saying she met her daughter and it wasn't love at first sight, and it wasn't for me either. It was a slow burn. For some people it's love at first sight and they're into it, and some people it is just a slow fucking burn. Like I got hit with my lightning bolts of love for my son around six weeks, Like that's just what happened, and I think for some

people it could be way later. Well, And think about the expectation sometimes, like with every single kid I tour, so that always meant stitches involved, and the doctor would have been doing his stuff down there, and they'd always be like to want to hold the baby? Do you want a certain nurse thing too? And I'm like, can we finish down there? I really can't think straight until that's done. But like that expectation, you know, and it's

so intense. And really what we're saying is that there's there's two times in our lives where oxytocin really runs large. When we're falling in love and around attachment with babies, and you're just saying, hey, I knew me or you didn't, but now we know you that you are the slow burn or my time kind of girl, slow burner, And that's okay, right, we're gonna coin that slow burner. I was the slow bitner. What about I have a friend

who was like, I got postpartum depression. It's six months postpartum. Is that true about? Are you joking? Well, think about all the changes that happened in that first year and when you're going back to work, when your partner's going back to work, when you're stopping to breastfeed, it's just a year of learning curves, and yeah, throughout that entire

year you can have a postpartum illness. Absolutely. Do you see across the board that it is so much more of a shock for people's first than second, or sometimes it is for people's second and first. And what about you personally? It's by fourth and I think it was it was who said I think Hillary Baldwin said like by the fourth, it's just another kid at the zero, or it's like it's just another animal of the zero, which was totally true. By four, Um, I find right.

I find for after that initial transition with baby number one. I find for women it's harder with two, and for men it's harder with three. Should you go to three? No? Wow? So really, because think about it, most of the time, when your partner's home, you're home. So with two kids, you're outnumbered, but they are not. They don't get out number till three because at three it doesn't matter whose home you're inherently outnumbered. Wow. Do you have any patients

who had postpartum depression? Not the first one, but yes on the second one, or yes on the first one. If you had it on the first, is it more likely with the second? On the first, it's more likely. It is an increased risk factor. But it's important for people to know that a risk factor doesn't mean it's going to happen. But so much depends on what's going on in life at that time. Where are you, where

are your partner? You know, I've seen a lot of couples where they'll struggle after baby number one with the relationship, never really get it back on track. Think, hey, we'll sell you know, we'll segue into baby number two. That'll fix it. Yeah, And that's a real show. It really is because listen, as lovable and as cozy and yummy as they are, babies are stress. And the goal is is how can we keep that stress an outside force and not a divisive force within us? And that's the difference.

What do you talk about this this baby proofing a relationship? I asked a little bit before, but how do people protect honor their relationship when it's about to go through that statistic you said of like two thirds of one two thirds of couples experience that's decline, which means one third of couples didn't experience as decline and they're happy, those idiots kidding. I'm so happy for you. I'm so happy for you that you're thriving. Well, the two thirds

of us just sleep. There's no shortcuts for taking time to talk, taking time together, and making sure that you don't put your relationship on the side and get sucked into that baby voor tax. But instead you recognize that

this has to be my primary focus. I am a big believer that to be a good parent, you need to be a good partner, right, that the ability to parent really comes from your capacity to partner, and so, and it's recognizing that when we devote time to our primary relationship, we're not doing it at the expense of our kids. We're doing it for our kids. That's really a strong and astute I talked about this and my girlfriends sometimes like who out of us parents do you

think put the kids first? And who do you think put the partner first? I can already see myself slipping and do mean the kid is first? Like, I'm fucked, But that's what my mom did. I also think it's like some sort of thing of what you were raised with and what you saw. I have a really good friend who's like, no, no, My parents always made it very clear that they and their relationship was more important than us, and I was like, wow, what is that

like and what does that do? That's amazing, It is amazing. And the crazy thing is and especially as we've said, weight into teenagers, right, they're now very vocal. You're going out on day night again. And my thirteen year old in particular, like any time my husband and I are affectionate, like, she'll find a way to like scoot in between us like that all the time I kissed my husband and

he's like, now, mommy's mine. Like it's like the whole thing, and it doesn't want us together, doesn't want it right. And she's like, if you haven't need to kiss kiss me, you could both kiss me, which is sort of cute, sort of cute sort of. But it was really interesting because like we have you know, company on Saturday all the time, yes, and we had a seri ease of

just divorced people like it just happened to be. And I realized like it was a new experience for my kids, and I was like, you know, we should talk about this, like they haven't been around a lot of divorce people. And so I was talking to my girls and I was like, you know, so so and so is divorced, what does that mean to you? And they were like, well,

I know it's not gonna happen to you guys. And I was like, okay, fine, right, So that notion that's somewhere it's gone into you that mom and dad love each other and you're a very strong and that were solid and you're a solid And that's not to say that we didn't struggle along the way twenty three years of marriage. Let me tell you there's been many ups and downright, some higher some but that notion of stability and knowing that they're safe. Adam and I went on

a date last night for the first time in two years. Guys, okay, but first of many, first of many, Like it was crazy and um, it was so romantic and lovely. But you're right, it's this date moment thing that needs to be And here was my after birth plan, Damna, absolutely, and we're gonna do it now two years. Here's my litmus test. When you come home, if you're kissing baby before happy, you know that we need to switch it. That's a big switchero. Oh yeah, I do that. I

do that, admitting it right now. I think if I kiss either admitting it's the first up Katie admitting I definitely do that, I think, but he does too. Okay, well, we need to have a conversation because you're gonna start kissing each other and I can't wait for him to listen to this episode. Um, tell me about other ways that people can baby proof their relationship besides date moments, besides trying to have this after birth plan that each person in the relationship has sort of written down and

can hold each other accountable for right. Absolutely daily conversations. We want to make sure that no more than twenty four hours ever go by with the two without the two of you sitting down and being like, I remember you. Because it's the little day to day or the minutia of our day to day that really bonds us together. So we want to start there. When do you do it?

It's a great question. I'm like you fourge children, and you're like a very successful working woman, and he is a very successful business Like, what if you guys have time? Then I have literally no excuse. You're going on dates? What the hell? Yes we are. Do you go to bed at the same time? No, yeah, we don't either. Do you talk in the morning on the phone? Is it be a text? All? All good questions. Sometimes we'll do it in the office. Lucky enough we work together.

And although what I'll say, Plan A is you do it face to face for me, A Plan B is that it at least happens daily. So we'll do it a lot on the phone. He's driving to this home visit, I'm driving to this appointment. But we'll find that time to connect. Tell me about your day, what was great,

what was horrible? What was awesome? Like, oh, I love that, you know what, that's what keeps you together because otherwise it's like, wait, you look kind of familiar, but I don't really know you, and I don't really even know where to start, right, and that's really hard. So no more than twenty four hours without having a conversation, no more than seven days without a eight and without sex.

And those are two like these rules. That's right. Wow, And it's so funny because in the years that I've done this and worked with couples, and I always encourage couples to come back to me with like, I'll recommend you plan it, you schedule it, Like what did you do to make it work for you? So one couple came back with this notion of they call it winning their dates, and again totally gave me permission. I'm like,

I'm taking that what is right? And so what they do is they start their date moment with sex and this way, this is great, this is this is me and it's the it's the thing of like, don't ever save sex or after the dinner date because it's not happening, right, it's not happening. It's not happening, but you're gonna still go through the mind game of is he thinking it's happening,

it's still expecting it to happen. And then another couple came up with and this was great because they were like, putting sex on the calendar felt like too much pressure. So for them, it's get naked and cut all night. Oh that's so key, right, isn't that? Um? How do we break away? This is a big question on all

my last ones. How do we break away from the stigma that we're being a bad mom if we're not a hundred percent all the time, so a hundred percent of the time doesn't exist, and what we want to aspire for is the good enough mom. How do we do it? We surround ourselves with other people who are real and are willing to share real go to mommy and me groups, go to you know, other places where you can really just talk and be like, gosh, you're

going through that. Also, I just had a client that I had referred her to this mommy and me group awesome, I mean me group here in l a Nancy Beta. Everyone who goes feels loved and nurtured and you can't go wrong. So I had made this referral and she had went and we had talked about it afterwards and she was like, oh my gosh, I had no idea

that so many other people were struggling with intimacy. And you're like, bingo, Yeah, it's just the not feeling alone, not alone, and hey, you're normal, which is why Katie's

Crib is where it's at. People. I feel very lucky that I live in l A and I have this like awesome mom crew, and I just hope, like my goal and dream for Katie's Crib is that we provide a crew for moms who are by themselves or need a really good laugh and to not feel by themselves and feel like they have access to help that they need to feel supported in whatever choices they're making. For sure, No, it's huge. What you do for new moms and for new couples is huge because you right back at you.

Thank you, But there's nothing that you're not willing to talk about, which come on, which is huge. But that's it. We need more of that, just open, honest, real we're all going through. Yes, Um, if you were to give a key piece of advice to expecting moms, what in the hell would it be? It would be to slow down and love yourself. Hmm, that's really hard. What would

it be. I wanted to be real. I wanted to be something that's pragmatic that they can take home, but also to slow down and love themselves because well, because I feel like that is our biggest struggle in life. The pace of life is just not normal and it's not sustainable. Okay, put your relationship first. Recognize that everything is better when you and your partner are intact. And if you don't have a partner, if you're going it alone,

find your village. We say that the village disappeared, It didn't it just more so find your village to point out but I would be dead in the water. Find your key people. Find your key people, and make sure they text you post baby that they love you and they're there for you. And Katie told you exactly what you should be texting, because those dumb things like isn't it amazing? With eight thousand exclamation points, like just don't know, because it would not be amazing for somebody, right, you

know what that it's isn't it amazing? Text? Does it shuts down the conversation before it ever started, because you've now made it no longer. Okay for that woman to be like, no, this sucks and I'm struggling. Yeah, you're just like sorry. Obviously there's no space for that, right. But when you say hey, I love you and I'm here for you and there's nothing we can't talk about that I could follow up. That's it. Yeah, that's it.

And you had asked about what people out of l A can do, and I just want to make sure we start back around that. So, first of all, I do coaching worldwide, so anyone who it's anything, reach out and I will always help you find what you need. But Postpartum Support International is a huge and incredible organization.

I'm one of their coordinators out here in l A. But they are international in so many different states and countries and they are a well spring of information and resources where you can connect with a coordinator in your area and they will help you find your people. Uh see,

this is so wonderful. I can't tell you. I just think the work you're doing is so valuable and important, and I just want to encourage our listeners to really take care of themselves and to any expecting mothers in their lives because help is out there and we're really trying to break these stigmas down about mental health and pregnancy and postpartum and all of these things. And thank you so much for being on Kid's Grip. Okay, this is awesome. Thank you for having me. I adore you.

You guys are always curious about your questions, comments, concerns. Email me Katie's Crib at Shannah land dot com. Thanks for listening. Katie's Grim is a production of Shonda land Audio in partnership with I heart Radio. For more podcasts from Shonda land Audio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. I Want you want to Watch