Pete & Val Holmes: Psychedelics, Trauma & Hand in Hand Parenting

all of that. Although he's not really into Father's Day. You will know him probably before we are on the air together as TV husband and wife because I get to play his wife Jen Smallwood to his Tom's Smallwood. The one and only comedian, writer, actor, cartoonist podcast host Pete Holmes. His podcast is called You Made It Weird and it's a comedic exploration of the meaning of life. And on Fridays it's called We Made It Weird because it's a podcast with him and his wife, Valerie Holmes.

I get to have both of them on the podcast today and we're talking all about their incredible daughter, Leela Jane, and we really get into it, guys. We get into the meaning of life, labor and pregnancy and postpartum and all of that, but we really get into the transformational shift that happens because of getting to be a parent. So here they are the amazing Pete Holmes, who created

and started the semi autobiographical HBO show Crashing. You might know him because he executive produced it alongside Judd Apataw. He's hugely accomplished when it comes up to stand up, three hour long television specials, late night appearances. He tours regularly as old out crowds. Again, you're going to catch him very soon on CBS because we co start together on Smallwood. And his wife, Valerie Holmes. Val She's incredible. She's a mindfulness coach, and she is someone who I

just want to be like my best friend. Starting yesterday, Welcome to Katie's Crib, Vale and Pete. I'm gonna be honest Pete Holmes, which I'm always only going to call you by your whole name. We even we don't have dudes on this show, like you're barely having one today. He's a great gateway dude. Yes, I feel really excited about this and I think it will be Father's Day, so we can talk about if that means anything to you, if you guys have any plans. But I was like,

we're going to make the exception for Pete Holmes. Um, I'll throw you a quick No, it doesn't mean anything to you. Everything, Katie in society, that's that's built to give people attention, Karaoke, Halloween, birthdays, Father's Day is completely null for someone whose job is getting attention. So I would be I'm already associopath. I go on stage, I did a show last night, and they clap for me before I've done anything that does something to your psyche.

It's I guess I've arrived. I'm here, I drove here, and everyone loves you already crazy is my brain goes, this is right, this is right. So like if there's anything we can turn the volume down on the specialness dial, uh it is thing now. For Mother's Day, we did nice things. We had pancakes and all those things. But I don't I'm not saying I don't need it. I'm

saying I'm already flush in that category. So on Father's Day, all I ever want to do for Father's Day, Birthday, all those two it's the things that just kind of relax and hang out and just be home with everybody and chill. So val, do you already know this about your husband or do you go behind his back and do anything anyway or you're like no, no, no, no, I I know that about him, and I it's it's really nice on my ends, like I just have to well, you're that way too, Like I didn't get you anything

from mother's right not to put it down. But if I was like I have to get her a gold heart necklace or she won't know that I love her,

then I'm not. Now I really sound on my high horse, but then I'm not doing a good God, I don't understand and and and it is the hallmark of it all also like there's something that it makes it you highlight other days as being shitty, like like I used to get upset where I was like, I'm confused why my husband only opens up the door for me, and look like not that that means anything, but it's like on a special day, it's sort of highlights like oh

that he doesn't do it all the time. And then I was like, oh, I don't give a ship that he ever does that. For me. Plus, we're both taking care of Leela, right, We're in this together, we co parent, we're in it together. And if I have a special day, maybe I'm the one that doesn't get up with the baby. And then that's pretty much in the morning. Maybe that's

the end of it. Yeah, actually is you're reminding me that for Mother's Day you got up with her two days in a row, and that's like the best gift ever, because two days in a row sleep, it's so much better that one. Yeah. I've actually heard I think from a therapist that when I was like I was losing my mind after so and she was like, no, no, no, just getting one night of sleep without breastfeeding isn't like enough. I think you have to log like two nights in

a row and now we're cooking with gas. Did you guys always know you were going to be parents? Did you always want to be a mom? That? Yeah, most of the time. There was a There was like a period of time in my twenties where I was like, maybe I don't maybe I could just party all the time. And then you know, like by nine I was totally

exhausted and was like thinking about a family again. But I feel like when we first started dating, it was just very much like maybe we'll be one of those couples that just always travels and doesn't have kids and uh. And then we bought this house and we were like, there's two perfect little upstairs rooms for like two kids. And then we just started kind of talking about it more and more. Before that, even when we saw the house, we have a very cozy it's not modern. It's like

what a kid would draw, if you like draw a house. Yes, a rectangle with a triangle on top, with a fute door and a little walk way up to it. There's like a flower with dolow blocks. And I remember looking at it and going, this is where you raise a family. They're like the houses that are like and we love these houses. We airbnb in a house like this all the time. You know, the heated floors and the white

granite countertops and all that stuff. Everything's sleek and sharp, a lot of things for a kid to bunk into. And we stayed in a place with a hard cement floor and Leela fell backwards and bopped her head. No, that's not hoose for that's not a house for building a family. That's why you should see our couch now. Our couches just permise stained. Valmy not like that. I'm sharing that, I'm making peace with it. It was, yeah,

we gotta let it all go, guys. I just for the first time, we just had someone come and steam clean our couch. Biggest, stupidest guess what, sparkly blue silly putty. It just fus your couch up and it's never coming out. It's just I mean there are huge electric blue glittery stains or whatever. And you know what my dad, My dad was like, just mess it all up. It's a monument. It's the kids being safe and bye bye to the

white couch. But that's it's it's American beauty. You remember Kevin Spacey's going to spill the beer on the couch and he's trying to kiss his wife and she goes the couch and he's like, it's just a couch. That's just my style. One of our parenting things is like the baby is almost always right, meaning you're in the bathtub, she's splashing and I catch myself getting tight and I wanted to stop. And then whenever you just really look at it and say, like, what's really going on and

kind of step aside from the role of parent. You know, you start almost like you're reading lines in a play. I'm supposed to tell you to stop splashing. Um And at a certain point I wouldn't let her. I wouldn't want her to drench me because you could that's legit. You could be like, oh, that makes me sad, I have to change my clothes. But she's just splashing and it's getting a little bit on the floor and I'm like, baby, stop Just is that's not normal grown up for me?

I do this all the time where it's like your kid wants to splash, Like I don't know a kid that doesn't want to splash, Like why is why have we put that splashing? The floor is tile, and the reason the floor is tile is because it can get wet. So you just have this like you just get to go. You're right, life is joyful and that's what we love about kids. They're so free were I'm certainly not giving a tip, but something that was helpful for me was

just going to give a tip. Here's a tip. Was just like looking at the child sort of like as a legitimate and dignified member of reality, not somebody that I have to like constantly be sculpting that we hear all the time. It's like, what can I learn from you? Just going like why am I stopping her from coloring on my books? All of my books have crayons and

them who cares? You can still read him. One of my teachers was like, you know what, like a pen really isn't a great toy for like a two year old. He drew all over the table and I was like, okay, I could lose my ship that he drew all over the table. By the way, again, this table is a piece of ship whatever from my keya hundred years ago. It's who cares? But the problem was that I gave him the pen, and you know what I mean, it's

not him. I'm like, why am I giving a pen? Yeah, like I could give him They make ship for kids now that's like they could draw all over and it comes right off like I gave him an adult pen. Okay, um. I want to hear two things. When you found out you were pregnant, what did you both feel and how was the pregnancy for you? So we knew we wanted to have kids early on, before we even really were married, and then the we first started trying, like on our honeymoon,

and I'm really lucky that like we got mint. We tried three months, you know, and like the third try we got pregnant. So we got pregnant pretty fast, wonder but it was so like training for parenting and how like nothing goes how you expected to go. Meaning even though it was only three months, it was it was already hard on uh Val. Not to sound like I'm I'm so easy breezy, but it was less hard on me. I was excited, but I think Val was really as as I'm glad. You were like ingesting it and being

like this is it. It's happening. And then you're the one that gets the period. You get the news, you know what I mean, and you're like, yeah, so like you feel like it's something wrong, and it's just in us as women, it's awful, but also as people who have been careful your whole life. Suddenly you're having unprotected leave the greeto in the oven kind of sex and you're like, we're gonna get pregnant immediately, and then you're like,

oh my god, I was being way too careful. That's a joke by the way you can get pregnant on one try. But then are you remembering we know when we yeah? Yeah, so then we we I knew Like when no I just was using the copulation, we tried to do it minimum amount those ovulation sticks. We did the same thing. It was amazing. I feel like you and I are very connected. But once I decided that I was right I wanted to get pregnant, I was so fucking piste like when it didn't work out, which

is what I understand. Like if you're at all, uh, you know, an overachiever, and all of a sudden you're like, I've made the decision to work really hard at getting pregnant, and now, oh, it's not happening. So the three months feel really long. And I think it's really relatable for people listening because you immediately go to I'm going to

be one of those people. I'm going to be one of those people that it's impossible, where your brain is already going to IVF like you're already like something's wrong, something's wrong, something's wrong. Yet absolutely that's so true. And the waiting, there's so much waiting because you're like you're waiting until you ovulate and then you're waiting two more weeks to see if you get your period, and those

two weeks feel so long. And every time I was like hungry, I was like, maybe I'm pregnant because I'm so hungry. That was just your That was just emotions. But who knows. Okay, so tell me that you guys like know when you can see. Yeah, So we use ovulation stick and we I do feel like this is significant with oh my god, pick more good mood. Don't look at you can only come out two hours every month. Um. But we cleared out the room that was gonna be the baby room. We like it was a jump room.

And it was New Year's Eve and I was like, we're starting this new year. We're making this space for the baby. And I was ovulating. We obviously didn't know that it I was pregnant. Then what we did kind of try to conceive, and we had made plans to on New Year's Day. But you're what, you're skipping skipping what? Okay? We usually have sex during the day, Like I just like day sex. This is the detail I'm interrupting. I don't. I like to help people feel less alone. And I'm

a person who at night. I like to unwind, but we would have sex on light at night for like date nights, like because that's very sexy to get dressed up and go on a date. And that's what happened is it was New Year's Eve. Yeah, and we dressed up and we went to this party and then we had sex that night and that's when we conceived. So it was all the other attempts had been day sex attempts or afternoon sex attempts, and now we're doing it

like one in the morning. So funny to me that I'm like trying to give the key details to make this story quick, and you're talking so much about how we had sex at night instead of during the day. So yeah, but it's so great. I'm contributing people turn in for those juicy one am unwined sex because what were you doing? I was? We weren't. It was New Year's it was New Year's Eve, so we went to the party. And time is different on New Year's Eve. For whatever reason, it's like a very time is weird.

It's either because we knew it was that time. I think I'm pretty sure yes it was. We knew that, but we didn't know obviously that day that it had taken, so we had made plans for the next day to do mushrooms us together, and I had had like good experiences only exclusively with that, but for a lot of reasons and theories that I have, this was like a very bad trip. I don't know if it was the mushroom trip. I actually think it was like the spark

of life that was happening in me. Like I like to think that Leela was like this light that just kind of shone in my light, my body and like shown all of this like trauma that I was holding that I didn't know I had. It's like that trip like reignited a trauma which then I was flooded with and incapable of dealing with, which kind of created its

own trauma. So then in the following weeks, I was having like six hour panic attacks every day, followed by like the deepest, darkest depression where I felt like I

was having the bad trip again. Um, but I wasn't on anything, and I was so scared because I've never dealt with anything like that, and and like nobody brought up trauma or PTSD or anything, So all I thought was I broke my brain with drugs and I might be pregnant, and it was truly the darkest time in my life, just the time before finding out that was like, yeah, in the two weeks between conception and now, that has to have been from that trip. It has do right,

it was the trip. If I agree with your diagnosis that the trip opened up things, you know what I'm saying, Like, I don't want to say it wasn't the drugs. The drugs reacted to something that was repressed inside of her that did need to be cleansed. Again, mushrooms aren't for everybody, I don't. I don't mean to say that they don't

sometimes have terrible consequences. They absolutely can. But in this case, I'm like, you sort of see how they are these sacred medicines that are like, Okay, you're about to do this, well, we're gonna look in the box that you don't want

to look in. That being said, it was really rough. Yeah, and I actually had like I see this healer, raiky woman, and she was like, this stuff was going to come out anyway in your pregnancy, because that's just like what this soul that was in you was meant was here to do UM, but like maybe it just came out really way too fast and extreme um. And so by the time I was like peeing on a stick, I was in the lowest mental state I've ever been in.

I didn't feel like myself was really scared, but I also still wanted to be pregnant, and it was just all very confusing, and um Pete was asleep and I took the pregnancy test, and when I saw the word pregnant, it was like I just felt like, oh my god, I'm I'm making someone be alive. I am making I'm it. Just like the responsibility instantly hit me and I was like I just woke up a soul, like wake up, do you want to exist? Which is what that Chris

Pratt movie. You know that Chris Pratt science fiction movie where they're on a long haul. I haven't seen it either, but they're in a spaceship. It's in a long haul and he's woken up and it's like he knows, he knows he's going to die before they get to the point passengers, right, Yeah, what's her name, Jennifer? Jennifer Lawrence Lawrence up. He wakes her up and then he breaks it or like I woke you up because I was lonely.

That's sort of not only what parents are doing, like you're bringing something in even though you know it's complicated and and life involves death and all these things, but it's also what God was doing. Yeah, Like God was like, I'm going to make creation and they're going to suffer and they're going to die, but it's worth it to commune with them in any way. That's I don't have to see the movie to enjoy its mess. It sounds like you felt massive amounts of responsibility. Did you feel

like your whole pregnancy you struggled with that. I was excited. I just felt everything. It was like, all of a sudden, I felt so much about it. And I had bought like a little onesie that said the Adventure Begins or something like that, You're fucking I think, No, you're lucky. I mean, pete, I get it, Like, wow, thank you. So I like put that in a gift bag with the positive pregnancy test and I woke him up and he was like kind of sleepy but opened it and

was like, are you serious? And then you can take over how you felt? And that did your I loved telling you. I actually I totally understand that. The story is that you had this dark thing the day after we conceived, and this very difficult thing that I remember. We were doing a press tour for for Crashing, and we had to leave, we had to go to the doctor, and she was having this basically this lingering, twenty four hour panic attack. I'm walking around with her and it's

like she wasn't home. It was really scary, and I was trying, I could I was telling her all of my metaphysical woo woo, and it wasn't really helping. And I could tell it wasn't helping. And I know what it's like when someone's trying to comfort you and it's just not getting through. Yeah, And when you're having panic attacks, no, there's no getting in there. They have to end and you have to like go through it. They're the fucking worst,

don't They're the worst. But what's funny is, even though all of that is what was happening, when I think of you telling me in that time in our lives, the headline in my memory is how how happy we were. I sort of I'm not saying I forgot about all the other stuff, but I separated them. It's almost like that was resolved, even though it wasn't. They bled into one another, but it felt sort of resolved. I know we were still fixing you. In fact, the worst was

to come. Yeah, the coming back from the press tour was after we knew she was pregnant. That's why they couldn't give her anything, which was also a scene from a horror movie, like help, I feel like I'm dying but I'm pregnant. Well, we we can't give you anything.

The doctor told me to take ben a drill just so that I would like sleep through it, which later I found out that like there are on antidepressants that are health that are milk thistle would have been great, Like there's so many homeopathic things that can help you calm down. So you were having panic attacks even after you found out you were pregnant. Yeah, did they end

at a certain point? They did? Yeah. I did take a ton of supplements like five htp l f ain you know, Oh my god, who is the supplement person? I'm confused. So in San Francisco, which is where we were right, which is our love city, it's the city we met in and now we're having this horrible nightmare. Our wedding vows by the way, where me I told Val. I was like, I just vowed to keep Val Val. I was like, I love Val and I'll just I'm just here to help Val be Vale. Cut to like

a month and I am dead on the floor. So then cut to four months into our marriage and I'm like, let's take mushrooms. And then she goes away and like, well, fuck, I really really is gone. Vale is gone east of vow. So. But long story short is like I was thrilled even when I was a kid I wanted to have kids. I was watching how I was being parented and I

didn't have notes for them. I wasn't old enough to get that, but I was like, oh, I can't wait till I'm I think if there's one thing I can compliment myself on is that I really feel still in touch with what it feels like to be a kid. And it's similar to being with somebody who's on a psychedelic Yeah. I tried to do a joke about that on stage. It is like I feel like I'm a good dad because I have trip set people. You'd be a trip sitter, and like it's the same thing. Maybe

it's that you're a superstar. My child's only ever been like comforted by um, what's his name? You know? Oh god guys, no no, keep going, no no, no, no, you know, super hot Philly Brad not Brad Brad goodbye Brad like per thank god. But Bradley Cooper held my son, and my son got lost in his soul. Yeah for babies. He slipped, he slipped him limitless and we you know, wow,

this is gonna be the theme the episode. So um, there's perinatal depression and perinatal anxiety, which are real diagnosed things that come about during pregnancy because of the hormones. I one percent just had it with my daughter and I did nothing about it, and it is a massive regret. Um, it was awful. I had panic attacks, and again Val wasn't Val, Katie wasn't Katie. My husband was like, we've been together seventeen years. He was like, I have truly

never I mean, I was gone. Um. The worst part was that I was that for my son, you know, and just pray, pray, pray that he's he's fine, He's all right, I think, but you know, it was panic attacks are absolutely horrible. How do you think you finally came to peace more they went away, Well, so it was kind of a long haul, they did go away. I the supplements I think helped in just letting my brain like recalibrate. Um, we spent like a lot of

time in nature. Um really were we were able to have that time to like really just be home and together and kind of slowed down. And I was so sick, Like it really was literally like I was purging this stuff out. So I was throwing up multiple times a day for the first fourteen weeks and it really was

like I was cleaning myself out. And then the rest of the pregnancy, I had a lot of anxiety that now, again my understanding of it was like trauma related anxiety, Like I had this trauma right at the beginning, and I was dealing with PTSD, but I come to know it as that until Leela was like a few months old, and I was dealing with that, but mindfulness, which now I teach mindfulness. So like, all of this led to kind of my career path and not to mention, an

immense amount of personal healing. So it's one of those things where it's like, yes, it was the darkest time in my life, but now you're so grateful for it, exactly your whole life. That's that's the full the full range of the spectrum, right, It's like, oh my God. And I really felt like my A lot of the anxiety I was experiencing was the anxiety that my mom was experiencing when I was in the womb with her.

Just basically, any kind of anxiety and depression and mental illness, just like still was not being really talked about by our parents, and especially if you have a baby, you're supposed to be happy you're pregnant, like what's the problem. And my mom had had a miscarriage before me at five months, and then at six months when she was pregnant with me, at six months, she started going into early labor and had to bed rest. So of course her body was reacting with so much anxiety. But if

you ask her. I asked her, like, Mom, were you anxious during that time? That must have been so hard, And she was like, you know, I don't know. I just life is hard. And you're like, oh, you didn't do any processing of this. It was just living in your body with me. So when I was pregnant, I would just have these huge waves of anxiety, but I understood them to be like, Okay, but I am the bridge between my mother and my daughter, and I'm like

filtering this stuff out. My god, you did so much work during your pregnantive, so much were rest Like that's a lot of work. That's very impressive, Like not only were your physically building a human being, but like mentally looking at your whole and you know the generation is before you and what kind of mom and pregnancy you were going to have unbelievable. La was a searchlight and it was all bright inside of her, and I think

instead of resisting that you you went with it. It wasn't just the labor, which is a whole other thing that was like a death and rebirth. It's like even the pregnancy was like a changing of who you were, because before Val got pregnant, I hope you don't mind me saying, she was pretty habitual weed smoker and I

was a pretty habitual drinker. Um, and when you got actually when we got married, I quit drinking actually a week before we got married, which was I remember at the time, Val was like, really, your parents are about to come when we're are you sure, and she was

really worried that it would ruin the wedding. Now it's for me, for me because you didn't know, you didn't know if it was just like another one of my i'm a tweaker, I'll be like this week, I'm only eat gluten or whatever, you know, like a trying new things. And she's like, yeah, I just want you to enjoy the wedding. And I know you know this. I enjoyed our wedding so much. And it's not a blurry memory, it's like a present memory. And that was so. But

it started when you got pregnant. You stopped smoking weed. I didn't do anything for thirty days I was already or not, I mean for ten months, and then you went with that too. It was like the new val doesn't smoke weed. No judgment to people who smoke weed um at all, but it's like you were accepting feedback from the experience. You weren't imposing yourself on the experience. You were letting it impose on you, which really sounds

similarly to your parenting style, but it's letting the baby's flash. Yeah, did you know you were having a daughter early? Did

you find out? Yeah? We found out early, and I really felt like she was a girl before that, which is like, even though it's like, okay, gender is complicated and maybe she isn't a girl, but but I really felt like she was going to be born with the female until she told you otherwise, she was born with And that experience became even though it was really hard, it became like this, I felt this deep connection to

my mother on like a soul level. I had that too, because my second a girl, Oh my god, my first as a boy. And Pete and I talked about this when we first met, and I was fucking devastated when I found out I was having a boy. Um, but my daughter, I did feel immediate connection to my mother as soon as I found out I knew it was a girl. I knew the minute I conceived her that it was a girl. I felt her so strongly and um, and it made me feel very connected to my mom.

So when you found out it was a girl, I want to know how you felt, and Pete, I want to know how you felt. And we could just yes, understanding that gender is a construct and blah blah blah, but let's just go old school. How did you feel yeah, we'll go old school. Um. Yeah. I definitely felt like it was confirmation that the early connection that I felt to her was true and not just in my head, because I was like, I feel like I have such a sense of this being's energy, and I feel very

strongly that she's a girl. So if she isn't, then I'm going to question everything. Everything. Yeah, even Pete. I mean, we're just like, we're very feminine in this house. That's why we've allowed Pete on Katie's That's right, that's why he's let in. How did you feel, Pete, Pete, you're such a girl dad to me, That's what I felt like too. And I feel like, for some reason, there

are dads that are just like, oh, it's perfect. Sometimes it is like a really macho, like a bear of a man, and you're just like, yeah, but still you you need baby girls. And I actually had a dream before we knew Val was pregnant, that Val was pregnant. It was in the time after we had conceived, but before we knew I was pregnant. Uh huh, you had a dream. The dream was she was pregnant. Val had a big pregnant belly, and I it sounds it sounds dark,

but it wasn't dark. Meaning I put my hands in her belly and I lifted the baby up, but the skin of val was still over the baby, but you could see it like a bed sheet, like like a top sheet on a bed. Lifting up the baby, and I looked at the baby and it was Leela like it was what Lela ended up looking like and being. So it was like piercing sparkling eyes, which she does, you guys in the photos. Leela's eyes, I don't know if I've ever seen them on like a human being.

It's like she it is truly windows to like another dimension, you know. And anyway, I know it's tricky to sort of talk about gender, but Lela is actually has a lot of like powerful or for lack of a better word, like masculine energy. She's very decisive, she's very strong, she's very fearless, and she's very cooperative too. She's very like,

she's empathetic and she wants to play with you. When we went to this birthday party and it was me and her cousin and these other little baby girls, and I just got in the kiddie pool with my pants rolled up and I'm soaking wet and and just having so much fun holding two of them at a time. I'm throwing them on the slide, just having the best time, and everybody's collaborating. If they're saying something, they're like, you and me are on a team, or if Pete is

a monster, we're agreeing that I'm a monster. And it's not so you can like hurt me. It's so you can sort of run for me and then splash me. And but if I go, okay, now Lela is the monster, like they listen to that, and now we're and then like one boy came in the pool, one fucking boy, this is mine? What do you do? What do you do? And I love these boys. I've known a lot of

them since they were babies. They get in the pool and suddenly the game is just shoot Pete in the face with a constant stream of powerful super socer and I'll take a shot of super socer to my face and I'll go, ah, you got me, and I'll fall down and play with it doesn't stop. The blast just kept coming coming. And another boy gets in and this boy, by the way, was a sweet boy and had been playing nicely sees that he's shooting me in the face and now he's shooting me in the face, and I'm

just you try to reason. I go like, okay, that that was fun like and I literally just said like, okay, you're ruining this, like I'm gonna leave. And you see, this is why none of the grown ups are playing with you. I'm the only one that's sing And if you've noticed, it's more fun when I'm playing and I'm offering other suggestions. I'm like, do you want me to pick you up and throw you on the slut blasts and the fact the whole time the blasts in the

face is happening. And I just went okay, not even that frustrated, just went okay, and I just got out. It was like, dude, not all boys and not all girls girls and these boys, I was just like, fuck boys. I fucking hate this. And I can really appreciate if you want to wrestle. I I again, I remember what it was like being a boy. And you you have to make peace with these two sides of yourself. You

are sweet. I was really close to my mom. I was, and hope hopefully still am, empathetic and kind, but like you also want to punch and roll and everything's a gun. And but these boys that we know in l a uh not to make a geographical but these boys that we happen to know here play better. They get that I'm on their side, and they don't just shoot me in the face with dead black eyes. Just they're not even enjoying it. Just dead. My sons go jet black,

and I'm like, did I Berth satan himself? I am terrified. It's not just you. I go, this is a dark soul right now. But it's not. It's just like a weird One of the kids, one of the other boys, we were playing this game. There's a little kitchen. To me, it's it's and three girls and we're having so much fun. It was their idea, took me by the hand. Let's go play cooked. And I was playing a game where I would eat what they take what they said, and

I said, now it's not spicy, is it? And they'd be like what, I'm like this, I don't like spicy food. And they'll be like, no, it's not spicy that I eat it, and I go, but spicy, it's spicy. They're dying lad. Now they're they're running back to the kitchen and then come up. Leela would come with a plastic piece of cheese and go, it's not spicy, it's not spicy that I'd eat it, and I'd go spicy pleading. They laugh. One boy, different boy enters the game. Now

he's shoving it in my face. He's going, eat it, eat it, eat it. It's not spicy, like hurting me, eat it. I'm like, why are you making me feel so degraded? Now? It was a game where I'm kind of haplessly eating the spicy thing, and that's funny, piece of ship. Eat it. You know. I have this book next to my bed. I haven't read. It's called The Wonder of Boys. I've been people have told me to read it on this podcast for four years at this point.

Still haven't touched it. Um. I think there's something I don't know, if it's like an impulse thing like, I don't know, But there is a difference, and we're making a sweeping generalization to boys and girls. We understand that there are girls that are exceptance to rules, there's boys that are exceptions to rules. Blah blah blah. But you guys were gifted a girl with feminine energy who has masculine energy to but is one to not throw a

super soaker in your face? Do you guys have to discipline her for lack of a better word, and how do you do that? Yeah? Okay, Well I'm so glad you said that and that this came up, because this is what I was going to say originally when you were like, I feel like you guys are like such great parents, and I messed things up. Um, it's easy to look like you're good parents when you have an easy kid, Like so if we had a type of kid, I mean, you saw like Pete was like, okay, this

is why nobody wants to play with you? Or I get Ben knows all the time. Like literally, the person who came to steam clean the couch saw what it takes for me to get my son into the car to get dropped off for preschool. She saw it. She looked at me. I've never met this person. She said, well,

you better nip that in the bud. Now. I get comments like this ship all the time because my son is a negotiating I mean, because she had witnessed what our morning looks like, which is me how many times can to negotiate to put on your shoes, brush your teeth, eat something, you know, all of these things. And he loves a test. He loves to push boundaries. He loves to like, Okay, you said three, but can I have you know you said too, but can I have three?

Let's bring three cars? And again my hippie self is like, sure, you can bring the toys in the car. I don't give a ship, like who cares? But my son is like, well, if I can bring car toys in the car, I want to bring. You know these about a card? You guys get it, you get it, you get it, you get it. But yes, my kid is a challenger like his dad. So yes, a lot of times I look like a bad parent. So it sounds like Leila is um for for also lack of a better word. Easy.

She can be really strong willed. We can really relate to the like it takes forever to get her, like every day it's a battle to get her dress, to put clothes on. She never wants to put clothes on. Um. She is doing very much in that two year old thing where if you make it clear that you want her to do something, then that's enough for her to be like, nope, I don't want to do that same same So it is a lot of manipulating to be like, you know, do you want to take a bath or

a shower? Like constant choices um or trying to word it in some way where it seems like it's her own idea. But then she's sweet, it's I wonder if your son is not like this. I don't know, but like she's resisting a tub. She's resisting a tub. She's resisting a tub. I get in the tub. She comes in with me, you know what I mean. There's always

like playing with her power, which is great. But then like if I'm like, okay, I'm going to take a bath and she's like I'm getting the tub, I get it, and then she wants to get in because she does want to connect and play and all that sort of stuff. I'll tell you what what like we're trying to do, and then I'll tell you what we actually end up doing.

I love you, love you because yeah, and I have a problem with I've had a couple of parents telling like making comments like the whole you better nip that in the butt, and I'm like, when your kid is being hard the only appropriate when like another person's kid is being difficult. The only appropriate response as a fellow parent is to tell a story about when your kid was also difficult to play. That's not the time to give advice. Don't don't tell me your methods on it.

Maybe if I ask, you can do that later. But like we're in this together, we gotta give solidarity. It's it's hard and we all have like really bad moments. So um, thank you Val for saying that. Oh my gosh, well so we Um, we're trying to do kind of like it's hand in hand parenting, which is like one of the yeah in hand parenting something I haven't heard of it, and I'm what tell me when I know? And you I mean, I think it might be a little bit. I don't know if it's old school, but um,

I don't know that much about it. I just know that we are doing like these sessions with this friend of a friend who specializes in it, and um, there's a lot that's aligned like I've seen you know, it's a lot like a whole brain child stuff and it's very light with that and it's very much like if there's off track behavior, Uh, that is your your child signaling to you that there's been a disconnect somewhere and that connection is the key, and that There are several

ways to do that. The most common one is to set a boundary, let them have very big feelings about that, and you just sit with them while they're having those big feelings, and you're like, I'm here. I'm not afraid of your rage. You don't say this, but you're kind of showing like I see you, I hear you, and I'm just sitting here and I'm sitting here and I'm here for you, Like that's it, and likening them out. Sure, yeah, what would be an example of a boundary in that situation?

So like, if she saw this pen, she would grab this pen and she would draw all over everything, so she would want the pen, and I would say, I would say, Leela, we can't have that pen. We can go have your washable marker. And then she'll say no, pin, pin, pin, And I'll go, I'm sorry, I know you want the pin, but you can't have it. Do you want to give it to mom? Or do you want me to take it?

And then what whichever way that goes, She's gonna have a tantrum about it about not having the pin, and then I just sit there with her and go, yeah, you really wanted that pen. It's that's you really upset, sound really upset. You didn't want me to dry your legs getting out on the tub and you're like running around and you have to grab her like a little baby squid. She's flailing, and you just I learned that's

such a great lesson. It's like, sometimes they just need to process feelings, and sometimes they need to process trauma that could even just be from being born, like the trauma they were basically born in a weird car crash, and there's still like ducks after a fight, they're still shaking their feathers from that. And that's why we it's really true. I'll see her do something, ask for something that she knows she can't have so she can have

a meltdown. And that's really modern parenting to me, because you know, some of you know, we see other grown ups, meaning people are older than us, we're not grown ups, pick up the baby, but she shouldn't distract them and turn on the TV, and we're really like, let's have it. Sometimes I have She'll be crying and you'll be like, oh, like I'll howl with her and you'd be like, yeah, this secks. Can you tell me very okay? Leela the name?

And also how was labor um for you guys both and how did you feel when you met your daughter? Both of you heat um? Well, her name. It's funny because both Val and I are are woo woo and as if you couldn't tell. Yeah, in our sacred mushroom ceremony where we invited a soul into her love exactly. Um. My passion is spirituality. I love at Cartole, I love Byron Katie. We talked about the sunset and I love around us, and we we were very deliberate with her name.

She can believe whatever she wants and that's beautiful and valid and important and special and that's for her. I do think it's kind of fun that we named her Lela, which is one of the answers to the meaning of life. Whether or not she believes it is totally relevant or up to her, but Lela is. It's in both Buddhism and Hinduism, and it means the dance of the universe,

meaning life is a leila, like fis a dance. It's all just one thing, sort of undulating for its own growth, for its own enjoyment, for its own all of it, even its own suffering. To use it in a sentence, which I do, if you're on shooting a show and it's going late and it's or it's traffic jam or whatever it might be, you just go, it's all Leila. It's all just a dance. It's the other interpretation. It's it's all the play of God the dance or the

play of the mystery. So that's Lela. But then we named her Lela Jane, and we did that very deliberately because I was like, if she doesn't want to be a hippie child, she can be Jane, which is like a smoky sort of dark purple dress artist. She can be Jane. Then if she's sporty, she can be Ljuh. And wow, you guys really gave her nice options. And then with Lela, we also call her Lee, which is really nice, and that's a little bit that's open too,

and that's also like masculine feminine. It's like very if she's feeling here that way, it's like a Lee. But we call her Lee j We call her all those great things. So there's a lot of thought went into the name UM and a name with options, because I remember where I was when I somebody told me it was up to me if I wanted to be Peter or Pete, and I just thought that was a mind

blowing revelation. It is the first thing that I remember feeling real agency over reality, meaning I can tell you the giant grown ups to call me Pete, Hello, Peter, it's Pete, Like that's up to me. So it was really powerful. So I wanted to give her like a Rubik's cube kind of name UM. Then when I met her, it was it was. It didn't disappoint the thing that I say, Val can tell the story of her. But like what I tell new parents is always like it's

the realist thing you'll ever do. And it's the opposite of looking at your phone, like or watching a movie, which is literally fake and your phone is fake and Instagram is fake, and doing this thing like to me, labor and pregnancy and childbirth is like boop. It's like corches and dust getting kicked up by a sacred dance and you have like shakers on yours and that's like

the real ish. Actually I'm thinking about every live like dance performance I've ever seen when I've been fortunate enough to like travel and see people like really doing something that's like that, that is the best. Yeah, that's exactly what it's like. If I could just have you, it's a drum circle. It feels like a Yeah, it's sacred and ancient, ancient doing something that they've all done. And if you can tap into that, and Val was so

good at saying yes to it. Um, you know, there's pain and then they're suffering, and suffering is pain with a story. The story is usually this shouldn't be happening to me. Uh, this will never end. These are all things. These are all sort of lies that our brains cost that make pain in the suffering. And that was very good at feeling pain. But just one contraction at a time, you know what I mean, you were very good at that. You can speak to that more the I'm gonna really

give it to you. So I'm just gonna answer all three. I remember. I hope it's not an overshare. Lela's head was crowning and I we both touched her head, which too, it's like that time of day where it's not night and it's not day and we all love that in between space and here. It wasn't yet Leela, and it wasn't not Valorie, and it wasn't not Lela. It was this. Really, it's like touching. I'm not trying to be funny. I was gonna say a black hole, but like something cosmic.

It was like touching a portal. It is a portal. It's a magical portal. It's an interdimensional Did you know that moment was going to happen, Like did you discuss like if this is happening, or did your doctor whatever say do you want to touch her head? Or you said you can touch Yeah, we didn't know about that book, and we had the mirror, which I also somebody was

just like, do you want a mirror? And I was like yeah, and I hadn't even thought of that, So like I could see her head and I was touching it, and that really was I'm glad you brought that moment up because almost even more than the moment that they like chest like that, that was the first touch. I'm dying right now. It makes me kind of want to have another one. Not really, but I just like to get out there because it's really valuable to me as a parent, and I think it's valuable to kids too.

One of the first things I said to her, and I said it to her literally last night, not to soothe her or anything. I'm just talking to her own holding her, I'm like, you're welcome here. I waited so long to meet you. And even when she's crying, You're like, I waited so long to hear this cry, I waited so long to be up too late with you and all that stuff. But telling her on the day she's born, like, you're welcome here. We you're you're it's good that you're here.

So that was the first thing after she was born. She went right on bel and it was just a bloody, very carnal mess. And and then I got to hold her. I took the first picture of her when she was on the little scale and it was and we sang to her. We sang um, sweet baby James, but we say good night, sweet Lee La Jane, which is what we would sing to her in the womb. And I sang all these other songs that I had played for

her in the womb. A lot of them were like spiritual songs and stuff, just things that she would recognize. So she's laying again. It's it's like it's an out of body experience and she just showed up and we're like, let's just do the thing, get her on to Mama, no ego there. I did hold her topless a lot in the hospital, which people thought was maybe strange, no skinned skin. That's where let's let's not jump to my weird body. Let's keep you on mom on the space portal.

And we just sang her and held her little hand and and was that planned or all organic plan? Yeah? Yeah, And we were saying things like that, we each had songs that we wanted to play, like we it was very important to us that we communicated her right away, like we're the ones you've been hearing. You're not alone, We're here for you. Like really trying to imagine what it would be like to be born and just try scary, scary, scary, super scared. I always think about how traumatic birth is

because like my daughter is not. She's very very peaceful in temperament, and she's not a croy like she she doesn't communicate through through loud crying sounds. She's five months, so I've yet to know her more. But the most she ever cried was the first day of her life. Like I when she was born, it was horrifying, like she was hysterical, crying, freaking the funk out and could not be comforted by me, by my husband, by by my boob, like nothing. And that first meeting is nothing

like who she is. And I always think, my god, she was terrified. Yeah, well you just became too imagination. Imagine if right now the sky opened up and giant hands picked you up, Katie, and oh my god, how scared me? So yeah, saying some James Taylor, Katie, I can so relate because truly my first memories of her, like it was all of those that sweetness, But then like the time in the hospital, like for some memories of her was like why is she crying so much?

Like is this a bad sign that she's just I was. I remember being so shocked at how much she was crying, and she wasn't really like a colice baby after that, but the time in the hospital, I was like, what's wrong with her? I don't even remember crying, But I also was Okay, So my labor very long, I think I read it was very My labor was fifty eight hours, and like you, I heard that you want You told your Duela you wanted to labor at home as long

as possible. So I was at home for the first fifty hours, two full nights up, so so by the time she was born, I hadn't slept in nearly three days, and like that's the starting of when of your sleep deprivation. I just remember it being a very like almost like a dream, just so tired that I couldn't really feel like, oh my god, I love her so much, I want to eat her. I want to It was more like I'm very tired, she's crying a lot, and I'm very obsessed with her, but not in this like lovey dovey way,

like so interested in her well being. Right, I didn't believe that. They're like, okay, now, go ahead and let your guard down and sleep, And I was like, oh, yeah, right, I can. It's I actually think your body doesn't let you. I remember my body, you know those jold things when you like almost fall asleep and then your whole body like shakes away. I had that for the first bunch of days with Albi. I think it must be some primal thing of just making sure that everyone's alive and

everyone's breathing or whatever the hell it is. Did you have an epidural? Did you not have an epidural? Did you? Yeah? As soon as I got to the hospital, I was like, okay, we're done, Like that's enough laboring. I'll take that epidural and not really And then I did actually like sleep for a couple hours, but even then I was like so wired, I couldn't really sleep. Um And that ended up being like my favorite part of the labor because we put put Beyonce on. He made the room really nice.

He was making a laugh. I was pushing for what felt like an eternity, but I didn't care because I was like, I don't feel anything. Finally, I can't believe you did fifty hours at home, Like are you joking? That's like and also being that tired. I don't even know. So yeah, when the second, not that I was doing it, when there was there was a duelash shift, there was a duelash. That's when you know. That's when you know

ship is really like dula. If if one Duela had already reached her max of no sleep and then another Duela shows up, that's long and that's really long. I think you might be the only person on Katie's rip that's ever reached that, So congratulations, never heard of that. I feel like I've experienced enough of labor to last a lifetime. If we have a second one, I'm getting

a duel as quickly as possible. Yeah. We had Casey Wilson on the podcast UM and she said that she thinks she's the only person that showed up to cedars. She was at zero centimeters dilated and asked for her up a duel and they were like, but you haven't. It was an induction, They're like, you have a certain and she was like, oh I don't. I don't care, Like I don't want to feel anything at all. So just starting an I know you make any choice, but

she doesn't care. She's like, I'll lay in this bed for three days and watch TV like I don't give a ship, Like I'm not doing that. Okay, before we um wrap it up, UM, I want to know how being a parent has changed you, Pete. Well back to sort of where we started, where there's so much of my life is being professionally special that can be really toxic and really ugly. Um, if it's left unregulated. And I'm not saying kids is the only way to sort of cut that off at the past, it is a

great way for me. Um. There are balanced older comedians that never got married to that kids, but they found other ways. They found other interests, meaning I think it's really really important to have something that's not you, that you care about more than yourself. The Buddhists have an idea of the hungry ghost, meaning they have very thin necks and very big bellies, meaning it's never enough, and I think we can all sort of relate to that. It's like, oh, we're doing the small Wood show, now

I can finally retire. It's always it's the heist movie. One more job and I'll retire. But you know watching the heist movie, like these guys are never going to retire their high statics, where we can also be heistatics. So you need that disruption and having something the way that I look at my career, the way that I look at my life, that I take myself way less seriously because you have something external that you care about more than yourself is really really healthy, I think for me,

especially when you're in show business. So that's been really great. It's been this great release value. I am so with you. I always like when I had my kid, I was like, do you know how ready and lovely it is to not be the center of my universe as more? It's not healthy become like the risk is. The mythology of dragons is very interesting to me. A dragon is usually in a castle alone on gold. It can't spend. It's always hoarding gold it can't spend, and it usually as

a virgin. The myth goes like a princess that it can't have sex with. They don't explain that, but you know, the King Kong can't have sex with the good woman. Dragon can't have sex with a maiden, even though he steals one. So it's this, you have everything you need to experience, but you're a dragon, so you're unable to

experience it. So you kind of have to send your own night into slay that dragon, and the baby is a really good dragon slayer, and then you do start, uh, spending money, spending time, actually connecting, actually being a human, you know, not a dragon. Anyway, I'm trying to always ingest this thing, like show biz is so like I remember when I was always like oh, just get the series regular. Get the series regular, get this series, get

the lead and the lead, get the lead. And then it was like, oh, just get the lead of the episode. Just geta lead of the episode. And then it was like, okay, just get Jimmy Kim alive, just get whatever it was. And then I and then by season three I was like, oh, ship, this is just and thank god I had people who had already learned this, let you know, carry, I had carry watching all these people who were like, oh, it became just like I'm so psyched with what is and

it's all great. I am so with you on this being such a transform bitive, helpful identity shift. Really and then you didn't ask. But the spiritual thing that I find most useful is what you just said is making friends with the present moment and trying not to add a story to things. Because even when we were sleep deprived and rocking Lela bouncing Lelana yoga ball, that's that can be painful. It can be painful to not get

enough sleep. But the suffering starts when you go, well, now i'm gonna be tired all day and that thing I'm gonna have to cancel that thing your your brain really wants to build a story. But I do this all the time. You go, I'm sitting in a rocking chair holding my baby that at one point will be old and will not want me to hold her, and I'm sitting just us and I'm feeling her breath like you become embodied. Ah, this is so great. Also, since

you're so spiritual, and I love that. Any tips for people listening when your daughter asks you, like what God is and things like that, because I just ran into that for the first time last week and was not prepared. Wow, that's should have done that worth. But so for telling children about spirituality. You get into trouble when you forget that these are metaphors. That metaphor is the only language we have to talk about the infinite mystery. There's no

way to talk about it literally. You can't put it in an Amazon Prime box. You can only point at it. And stories are a great way to point at it. So if you ask me what happens when we die, I would say, uh, nothing goes anywhere. The whole the whole thing is one thing thinking itself, just an undulating swarm of molecules that is learning and playing so when you die, I understand it's like a drop of water going into the ocean. I'm sure you've heard that before

the drop of water. It's gone, and we can mourn that that it's gone, But where has it gone? Where is there to go? You're just merging into the oneness. That's a little heavy. You could also just say when you die, you go to heaven and you re emerge with what God. That's usually a basic bitch heaven story

and all the other dead people. But that's fine. But what I just said is just kind of another, I would say, more interesting way of saying, when you die, you merge into being God and go where all the other dead people are. And we don't have to take that literally, but that's a fine way to start. And even God saying I do not believe in another God. I'm a pan antheist, which means pantheist means everything is God. I believe that God is in everything. To God is

looking out your eyes right now. You like to use the water thing. There's a drop of water in you that's giving you awareness, that's giving you consciousness, and the idea of God is the ocean is all of it. So you can be reverent to that, you can worship that, you can be humbled before that and say I am not that, and yet I am that. It's a paradox. It's fine to say. The danger again is when you take it literally. But you can say God is a man if you'd like, this is what a lot of

people do. But if you want to say, God is like Jimmy Cricketer, God is sitting on a cloud. What is what is a cloud? It's above, it's participating, but it's above so it sees the big picture. That's a good metaphor. I believe that God is consciousness itself. I believe Leela has way more to teach me about God than I have to teach her about God. So I try to listen a lot of the mystery do you use that? Would you use that word god? Um? We might might. I feel like if Leela asked me, uh,

you know, what is God? I would say the same beginning as if she asked me where do you go when you die? Which is no one knows for sure. It's this really great mystery and that's what makes life so exciting. A lot people will have different stories to help them understand that Nana and Papa are going to have this Christian story. So so I do want her to have this idea that like she's going to hear different stories and but nobody knows for sure, and that's

what's so exciting about it. One of my favorite books of God is the name of the Blanket. We put over the mystery to give it shape, so it's like a word that we use to talk about life itself. A way to think about it is when you play with your toys, toy stories about God, that the child is God and the toys are animated by God. And we talked about this all the time on our podcast, where like the first awakening Buzz Lightyear has is that

he realizes he's a toy. That's the first awakening. But that first awakening when you realize life is Leela and life is a play, can actually lead to paranoia and nihilism where you just go like, well nothing matters, I'm just a toy. I just get right. But the second and important wakening is seeing that the word andy is on the bottom of your foot. That's the more important wakening. Who do you belong to? Are you beloved? Do you belong does somebody care about you. Did somebody play with you?

Did someone breathe life into the toys? Story is a great way to think about it, Like Andy is like God to the toys. He's what brings them life. When you play with your toys, that's like giving life to your toys, and God is what's sort of playing with us. Is one way to talk about it. I might just go full old school and be like, it's creation, it's it's it's God is like a man who's playing with toys. We're gonna go traditional. We're going to make her a

woman because she created life. All right. She's been saying, yeah, But I love that. We're gonna have to have you back on the podcast because I'm really so excited. Also, we'll be talking about this at work all the time as we're trying to make a multi camp sitcom. But it's just like Katie, it's just as Lela. I'm excited to know you both, and I'm excited to be on this parenthood ride with you both because I'm I can't wait to hear how Leela asks and how you address

her curiosities about big stuff. Um, you get so many fucking opportunities, you really can't suck it up because I really know that I can be casual about it because I know that the opportunity will show itself again so

many more times. And it's not one a three hour long conversation, it's multiple, It's thousands of one minute conversations with him about God is really what parenting is going to be um and is So I will have this opportunity again next week, and luckily I'll get to see Pete at work and be like, what do you think? And I'll be like, oh, ship, good idea. I'm gonna try that next time. Anyway, blabbing and boring about having the answers and to what you just said, it is

just a process of being present. I really think the best thing you can do is be present with them and be be there, and even if you do it wrong, you can be honest in present and fast up when you were wrong or say I don't the best I messed up. I Yeah, I love saying when I like blew a gasket. This weekend, I said that I was like, Albie, I really blew against my parents said, and they were doing their own thing. If they had ever just been like I really lost my cool that didn't have anything

to do with you. The reason I'm a creative person was because I was left in the backseat of Evolvo guessing what went wrong? You know what I mean, And that's why I'm writing scripts these days. I'm still guessing and we're grateful to them for that. Um. Parenthood is to me one word each parenthood is I'm gonna as Lela parenting is you? Guys both in Unison can agree that his parents would is Leela, and I'm going to jump on that as well, parents would parenting Well her

name is. Isn't just for her to reminder to us you can't have a child named Leela and then be frustrated that it's taking too long to get her. What are you pajamas on? Yeah, that's just another thing to knock you into going like what am I taking this so seriously for? Yeah? I cannot thank you enough for your time and your energy and you're in your experience and sharing your experience and I just a big fan same.

It's mutual and like Pete, I really I am so excited that I get to play your TV wife and val You're the fucking ship. Thank you guys so much for listening to today's episode. Please share, like, subscribe, tell your friends, and also always feel free to hit me up Katie's Crib at Shonda land dot com because I want to hear what topics you want me to talk about, what guests we should have on any suggestions, comments, you

know where to find me. Thanks guys. Katie's Crib is a production of Shonda land Audio in partnership with I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from Shonda land Audio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows you can. I'm chill you try me