Miscarriages: You Are Not Alone w/ Amy Mass & Jackie Seiden

really need to be talked about. UM. A lot of women have had them. Just like to run some statistics by you guys, like ten pregnancies end in miscarriage, So that's like practically one in four, one in five, eight out of ten miscarriages happened in the first three months. And a miscarriage is when an embryo or fetus dies

before the twenty week of Pray Nancy. UM. So I want to introduce you to my friends and we are having this glass of wine and we are going to talk about this topic and wine is hopefully going to help us really just get into um these experiences, because like I said, these numbers are staggered. I mean they're they're large. It's not it's crazy that we're talking about something that happens in one out of four or five pregnancies, and yet before it happened to me because yes, guys,

I too had a miscarriage. Um, I hadn't talked about it. Yeah, did you guys have the same experience? And then everyone you tell says, oh, I did too. My mother, for example, Yes, she said I had a miscarriage and you didn't know

she did? Know? What? Wow? Yeah? Same with my mother in law came out and said I had a miscarriage in one of the first and very something that really made me feel better about having one was she said I had one before I had your husband, and I wouldn't have had your husband had I not had one. UM So that made me feel better for maybe like five minutes. But um so, first and foremost, Amy Mass and Jackie Sidon, You guys, these are another two moms

are very close to me, um and in my village. Um, do you guys prefer to when you're talking about your experiences the terminology used miscarriage, pregnancy loss, something else. I just say miscarriage. I do too, but I have no preference I say miscarriage too. I guess so. Yeah, I think that's that's what we're going to use today's crab. We're calling it miscarriage. I wonder if it's because it's more medical. It's almost easier to digest miscarriages. What was

the other one, pregnancy loss? Yeah, I don't know, I've said miscarriage. Um, so Amy Mass when you had um your miscarriage. Now you have had talk us through your experience with miscarriage personally. Sure, we'll drink up that wine. And I like that you asked the common writer to come talk about the hilarious subject miscarriages. That's why you're at that we might be a little inappropriate, just humor. Humor has really proven multiple times to be a very

helpful tool. Best medicine is the only way. Yes, And there were definitely some, even though obviously very sad moments, there were some really funny moments. Um. Yeah, So my experiences, UM, I had three, but I guess one was not considered

a miscarriage because it was after twenty weeks. But the first two are called missed miscarriages, which means that when I went to the doctor around one was that eight weeks when was at ten UM there was no heartbeat, So I didn't actually go through a miscarriage where I was bleeding and had, you know, it was going through the pain of it at that time. I found out from the doctor I had the same thing. So wait,

what did I didcarried? No? But you didn't have Oh she told you you had no heartbeat also, and then you we never got to that point. Well yes, so Arson, Yeah, I think that's might be different than I think you'd like a real miss carriage. So well, so what this was is that the doctor says, okay, there's no heartbeat, and you're like shocks. You're like, oh, okay, great, now

what now what? And the first time I took UM, the doctor told me to take this pill at home psytotech or misappropriate, I don't forget the name of the actual drug. But and that induced it, like that makes you have a miscarriage at home, and it's just like the heaviest period of your life. That was honestly the worst.

That was worse than child's birth for me, because it causes cramping, like you're going through birth of something very small, right, and I'm learning, you know, and it's just it's and it's also condensed into a shorter period of time, so it's like a few hours that are just horrible. It's not like you're having a baby at the end of it, you know, um, and you were actively trying to conceive right and then take us through So wait, what is

that term? Not miscarriage. It's called well, it's a missed miscarriage. And then there's other terms miscarriage, meaning that maybe if I had waited a few more weeks, it would have happened on its own, like in the olden days. I always think about that with my so weird, I always think about that. I don't, but like I when I was going through my miscarriage, I always thought about because I had to have a d n C um, which so you guys know, Um, a d n C is

a medical treatment. A d NC stands for dilation and curetage if I'm pronouncing that correctly, which is a procedure to remove any remaining tissue from the uterus and um, you get you can be put under or you can be awakened. It can be local anesthesia. I think also, um, that's what I had from my second one. You had a d n C, but where you awake or asleep. They gave me like fun pills where I was kind of like loopy, yeah nice, Yeah, Yeah, I had fun

pills and I was lupy as hell. And then they put me under UM and it removes the The DNC removes all the tissue UM and after you know, you're in and out same day. It takes like thirty minutes and then you're given like essentially like heavy ibprofen or something for the pain. UM. So your second miscarriage, you had to have a d NC. Yes, And I will say if anyone, I hope no one listening has to go through this, but if you are any of the option of taking the pill at home organ the d

n C, just get the d NC. Yeah, that's how it's so much easier. You just go in, you take the medicine. It's painless. I mean, I can't pay me experience, Like I was super scared when they I had a very similar experience to you where I went to my I think the it was I was about eleven and a half weeks. I was a couple of days away from telling everybody that I was pregnant UM, which, by the way, when I got pregnant with ALBEI. I waited way longer than twelve weeks till anyone because I kind

of had PTSD. This was a miscarriage and um I uh went to a routine doctor's visit to here or the heartbeat, and she was like, oh my god, I'm so sorry, but there is none and in came the tissues and um. But but it was over a holiday weekend and she was like, we can't do the d n C for a few days. And I just had like this real like oh no, no, I need to get in there like tomorrow. That was my response. I was like, get it out, like I don't want to walk around anymore knowing that there is like a dead

inside those days. I mean, what was that like for you waiting and then driving to go get the d n C. What's going through your head? How are you processing? Oh my gosh, what do you What did you feel amy like when you for the second one? Well, so you would say d n C over the pill for well, for me the hardest, you know, obviously my throne I actually do wait over two weeks, take us through your

third and then we're going to get to Jackie's experience. Well, so the third, you know, was obviously the hardest because we were we got to twenty six weeks over six, so I was going, everyone knew us pregnant, we had that gender reveal party, we had names, you know, a one of us were there. Um. So what happened with that one was everything was normal and going great. The first two, you know, we're chromosomal, which is very common.

That's what the most common you know, reason for a miscarriage and there's nothing you can do about it happens, you know, at conception. So this one, though, you know, everything's going great. We're going for our second trimester. You know that big three D scan you do, yes, And I think it was around twenty four weeks. We waited because Jared was out of town, so it was a little bit later, and they went and they said that there was like no amniotic fluid. And at the time

it didn't really dawn on me. I'm like, oh, that sounds bad, but it didn't seem like, oh, this is they need that for survival. So amniac fluid is the liquid that the baby's swimming in and your uterus and eating and all that stuff. So without it baby's lungs

can't develop, so if it happens, it is there. It can be a common in your third trimester to have lower ematic fluid and usually it's okay, but but they monitor it closely and if they need to induce your labor or have a C section, they're like watching you. If amniotic fluids an issue, put you on bed rest or But because it was still early in my pregnancy,

it's not good. So I went home. Basically, they told me they don't think it's going to be a viable pregnancy, but the baby sort of heartbeat, could still feel her moving around, so they were like, well, and I was. They were like, well, you could just we can give you something to stop the heartbeat and then we can do the surgery. And I just like, even though mentally, like I knew it wasn't gonna be viable, I couldn't just give up on her way. So they're giving you

the option. The doctors are literally saying, this pregnancy is not going to go any further, and here's a pill that you can end her whatever if you may or may not believe she has I think it was an injection or something, but yeah, like right before the surgery. So I said, you know what, I'm gonna wait. So even though I knew it her heart would probably stop eventually its own, I just chose to wait. So that's why for two weeks I waited. So that was the

hardest part. Um, How did you sleep? And I mean it was it was a rough couple of weeks, um, But you know, and then is the procedure to have it removed a d n C. That's a d n E. So the dilation and evacuation I think it's called UM And that was actually a real weird procedure. So and again this might be I'm getting a little feminist here, but go for it. So what I learned is that because it was basically the d n E, which is the surgical procedure, is considered an abortion. And because it

was late in my pregnancy, abortion a second trimester abortion. Essentially, even though the baby's heart had stopped at this point, UM insurance was an issue. So I could have gone to the hospital and delivered my dead baby for free at the maternity ward, you know where they play the chimes whenever a baby is born. Could have done that, or I could go to a place where I could get the surgery and I could be put under and I could, you know, not have to deal with all

the pain physically. And I had to pay ten grand out of pocket to not have a baby. So but the procedure was actually pretty painless physically. So like women who don't have that kind of money obviously, like that is to give birth to a dead baby. Yeah, and some women, Look, some women actually choose to do that because seeing the baby helps them move on. I personally am not that kind of person. I didn't want to

see anything. I had the very same reaction you went at when it was like the fetus was no longer viable. I was like, when I need to make an appointment now, like I need to in order to move on with my life. I don't taken care of but I do have to say, like, and we'll get into this. The grieving process was long, and I can't even imagine how long it was for you, Amy either. Jackie tell us about um your miscarriage. Mine was this was my first pregnancy,

which was the same with you. Was my first pregnancy. I found out it was pregnant. People, weren't you not to tell people that you're pregnant? But of course you just never think that's going to happen. I don't know, it just doesn't occur to you. You just think I'm pregnant becausehen you're sixteen. Everyone's like, when you get pregnant, you have a baby, So I'm gonna have a baby. So of course I'm like, oh, well, we can't say anything.

We tell everyone, you know, we do the thing, we reveal it to our parents on FaceTime, and I can't as well. I videotaped all my family's responses to me being pregnant, and then I won all of them and say I'm not. I made fake fortune cookies and had my parents open them up, and it said You're going to be a grand this is what I'm saying. So we said all the next one. I didn't do anything neither exactly because you learned. Yeah, we were like, I'm

not doing anything. Meanwhile, your story I couldn't remember this morning if it was your story or my story about me. You're going to be grand like the ones that that said grandparents. You did something videos of like we recorded my family finding out, like my parents and Adam's family and my brother and my best friend girls that we whatever. So we told everybody and drink and exactly and then, um, I will say for me, what happened was I had

a flash that was going to happen before it happened. Um, because you think, because yeah, you guys, by the way, I'm told psychic book, should I tell everyone that how I found out I was pregnant the second time? By the way, a psychic told me in my dream, your baby girl has arrived. So I am psychic, So thank you very much. But you don't remember that story. Just the woe is it's the audience. Yes, the stories better slower,

but anyho, Um, I had a flash. I went to the bathroom and I just had a flash and basically I knew and I and I looked at it was my situation. Was a crime scene in the toilet bowl, just an old fashioned crime scene. And no, it's They're all terrible. I will say, I will never forget that image I I saw and I didn't see it, and I think I saw the thing like I saw it. I saw everything, and then um, then the breakdown and then the pain started because your body, No, that was

what was very strange. But I was after like on the floor with your face on the cold, tiled sort of cramping. Um. For as long as it took, I just laid on the floor. I remember when you called me and you said, um, well, I guess I'm in the club now. And I said what happened? And she was like I because I had been through my miscarriage already, and you were like, well, I've also now had a miscarriage. And I was like, yeah, like looking are It's exactly so.

In our group of moms from mom class, there's twelve of us or something ten eleven us and three of us have been miscarriages. So that's the numbers about right, Like that's not so. Again, this needs to be talked about more openly, more freely, because it's I went to therapy. I told my therapist and I said, you know, you can throw a rock and hit someone who's had a miscarriage. And she raised her hand in our session and I was like, of course, we've all we've all gone through this. Yeah,

it's like the unspoken about, which is sad. It's sad we don't talk about it more. What let's talk about Let's talk about the physical toll, and then we'll talk about the mental toll. But Amy you, I know, had a real physical toll with the last miscarriage because it was so late in the game. Like you, I think you are already you were had already gained pregnancy weight, you or your boobs were sizes up. I mean it was like we bought gifts, and yeah, we bought gifts.

So I had to cancel my baby show. I remember that. Do you remember that email my sister to send out. By the way, I will say, if anyone had sent me a flower anything, I probably would have punched them in the face. So I would just say I got sent a lot of cookies, and I enjoyed that. I called a woman who had a lot of miscarriages and she knew I was going in that day for my d n C. And when I came home, there was like a jug of milk and like a thousand cookies

and I ate them all and then I ate sushi. Um, the things you're not allegedly got drunk and then I got wasted. Um. So were you in physical pain after your d n E. Well, the worst part was the worst pain of the entire thing was that my milk came in so ween your breasts. Yeah, and you're not feeding and you're not trying to relieve that. You know now,

I know now, we all know that. And gorged feeling it hurts so bad, right like when your milk first cod of it right now, um, And so yeah, you don't want it the milk to come out, so I would. It took like almost a week and I had to lay there with like cabbage leaves and cold like after this, after this, it called a miscarriage. Um. At that point it's called I forget what it's called, but it's not

a miscarriage. I'd say something um um. And Jackie, you obviously said you were in super physical thing afterwards it Once it was done, it was done though, it was just a couple of hours, and then I was done. I felt no physical pain, like I said. The d n C. I remember they gave me whatever like fenton al or something, but they gave me that. And I remember being wheeled into the surgery room completely fucked up out of my mind, and I remember saying, oh my god,

this looks like a Gray's anatomy set. And then I also remember saying, I feel so good and so buzzed right now. And I have been buzzed in three months because I was had almost been pregnant for three months, and I was like, if you got any more of what you're given, give me more. And then I remember my ob just like holding my hand and like petting my hand and saying, you're it's okay, it's okay, it's okay.

And then I like went to sleep and I woke up and the baby was gone, and for me, the real and I wasn't in pain afterwards, but the real pain was mental and it was shitty and so much shittier than I imagined at being um, I'm such a like. I think the initial feeling when I found out there was no heartbeat from the doctor in a routine checkup was like, okay, let's like Olivia Pope, the situation, Let's fix it. Let's make the schedule, let's get to the hospital,

let's get the d let's get that done. When when can I start trying again? Like and then as soon as it sort of said in that I had had a miscarriage, what happens is you have a major hormonal drop off. And I think I was massively sad for about three months and I was only pregnant for three months, so I can't imagine Amy what you felt or Jackie what you felt actually seeing something, which is an image you can't ever forget. UM. But I had to go through I went through a lot of therapy UM a lot.

And also what's crazy about a miscarriage that you don't know is that it takes you a really long time to get your period back UM and to get back on a regular cycle. So if you're a woman like I am, who is greatly affected by her cycle, like I have, I've been fortunate enough to be kind of

regular my whole life and come to except my period. Well, I didn't get a period for three months after I had my miscarriage, and so I felt like an insane person because my body was really messed up and my hormones were really recovering and messed up in my what I've come to learn, my uterine wall was rebuilding from the d n C and things like that. And you

also can't really start to try to conceive. Some doctors would recommend until you've had a period because it's a sign that your cycles back and the egg is dropping and you might actually have a chance of getting pregnant again. So it's not like I could jump back in the saddle and try to start fixing the problem. So for three months I had to sit there and not get my period and feel, you know, like, yeah, I have

that extra five seven pounds on. I was sad, but I really just felt kind of crazy, like I was having disproportionate responses to conflict, Like little things would come up and I would be shot out of a canon, like totally insane and not acting like myself. Did you find that jacking the hormone and balance is a real thing, not something you would even think about it's going to happen. But of course, and I went through that with you. I remember, I remember, and I remember you having going

through that. It made did you? I mean I actually had to go back on birth control to help me get regular because I feel like a crazy person, Like you said, I just the hormones are so coct Like that's the thing, like if one in four or five pregnancies are ending in miscarriage and women are just like needing help, like whether that's to know to go on birth control, or whether that's to speak to a therapist

or to have a friend to talk to. Like imagine you don't know you go back to your nine you or you have another kid you're looking after, Like I have a friend who had a baby, has three kids and had a miscarriage in between every single one. So like baby miscarriage, baby miscarriage, baby miscarriage. So this can happen again to us because I don't I don't think I know, but that is like, it is a real miracle to get pregnant, stay pregnant, and make a baby.

And I don't understand how anyone can accidentally get pregnant. They make you feel like if you look at a guy, you're going to get pregnant. Um bowl, So you went back on birth control? Did you guys start immediately trying to have a baby right away? Did you wait? We? Oh, I wasn't complete denial. I was like, I'm fine, I remember that, I'm fine. It's something bad happened. I'm fine. I'm fine. And I really believed, I was very strong. It's all lies, but I really think I'm fine. I'm fine,

I'm fine, it's fine. And yes, we started trying. We went on with our life and people would ask about it. Did you wait to get a period or did you just start trying right And we started trying. Actually we started. This is exactly what we did. You know how everyone says if you're not trying, you get pregnant that thing. So I'm like, well, I'm not trying because I can't get pregnant. But secretly I was kind of trying and

hoping I would know. And it worked because it was like the not trying trying, you were just like getting back in your body. I was like, yeah, I'm not gonna get pregnant. I'm not doing and I'm not supposed to. But in the back of my mind, I was trying to manipulate the universe exactly. So I was I'm fine, I'm fine, let's keep boning. And and because I told so many people, I had a lot of which say

let me tell you not again. And the only other thing I would say is just don't send me flower I please, because you know you're hanging on by a threat. And then I sent you flowers? What I hate them. What would be your advice two women who have had a miscarriage, what would you send or saying you said cookies, which I think is great advice and booze booze, okay, And what are suggestions of what you would say, I'll tell you what not to say. Oh that's good. Um,

that's just as help. This is what bothered me when everyone's like everything happens for a reason. Oh my god, you guys, come on anyone if we can change one time from listening to this podcast to say that except we all agree that after we all had our firstborn, we looked at each other and said, well, I guess it didn't happen a reason. Well, no, Look, I love my kid, but I would have loved my other three kids too, you know, like, and I have to say, like I think about that, like I do think about

like I don't. I have a son and I'm so fortunate that he's happy and healthy. But I, in my gut have this really weird feeling that the baby I lost was a girl, Like I just for some reason, Like I know that I was never told to me, but I feel like it's a girl. And Adam and

I go back and forth a lot. This is really weird, guys, But we go back and forth a lot about Adam thinks that the baby we lost is the same soul as Albie, my current son was actually really glad I don't like I think it was a soul that came and went to wherever she was supposed to go. And Albi is a new person. Um, what do you guys feel? I definitely feel like again psych psychic. So psychics always

told me I was going to have a boy. I was gonna have a boy, and I believed I was having a boy, and in my mind, maybe to make peace with it, we had come up with a girl's name. My daughter's name is Pearl, and we had always said the name Pearl, and we didn't have a boy's name, and we felt like we were calling her to us. And I believe there are two different spirits. And my son tagged out and he said, you know what, they're

calling you. You go first. WHOA. I just got home eventually, and then she came and I god, I just got goose. I think I did too, actually, and I believe that their spirits made a soul contract. And she she said, you know what, let me go first. They're calling me, and then then you call. So that's why I keep saying I'm gonna have a but look in the next spirit will come as a girl or a boy. But

that's what I tell myself. That's super helpful. Like, like, we have to come up with things because for the person who says, like everything happens for a reason or whatever, like at the end of the day, we're the ones laying there going through it, and like, how do you come to terms with What are the things you tell yourself? And I think it's a beautiful thing to tell yourself, Amy, what else would you tell people not to say or to say, I don't know, Um, everything happens for a

reason is not good. That's not a good one. You know what actually was helpful because I I did go to therapy after my last one and my first time going to therapy, and I found a fertility and law specialist and she herself had had many losses and went through fertility And so people listening that is a therapist

that I didn't know existed. That's huge. So there is there are specific fertility and loss specialists to deal with women who have had late any sort of feelings towards even just going through I have friends going to last fertility issues and that's a whole other nightmare. So what she told me that I thought was helpful. There was two things that were a great piece of advice. The first was I started to feel very anxious when I was pregnant again, and I would always get scared. And

she said, yeah, it's basically like you have PTSD. Of course you had these traumatic experiences. Cut yourself from slack. Just know that it's going to take time to get over the trauma of these lass and like retrain your brain to rewrite the story that like this one is different, like this time is going to be different. And then the thing that I take moving forward that I took in my pregnancy was, you know, I'm not a very

religious person or I don't go to psychics. Just give me the fifteen minutes and uh so what what she said to me was like, well, do you believe in like karma or playing the odds? And I was like, okay, go on, And her thing was like, you know, all these bad things have already happened to you. What are the odds more bad stuff is going to happen? And I was like, I like the way I like we were going with that. Somebody I don't know have scientifically

that's a real theory. But I kind of in my pregnancy and even having the baby now, in my mind, I kind of think, look if I had to go through all that crap, but she's going to be happy

and healthy. Okay, that's a fair trade. Yes, And it Isn't it weird like sitting here talking about our miscarriages and now here we are, and and it is weird how women are fucking resilient as fuck guys, Like it is crazy, like the amazing women that we all know collectively or may no individually who have gone through lots of ship and come out on other sides. And it's just unbelievable to me. Um uh, let's talk about sharing

your experience with other people. Amy that way, especially for you since you like had a shower or not know the shower by cancel, but you had a baby reveal party. Um you know I love that Pinterest and Etsy so Amy Mass is the queen of a themed party. Yeah, she's a great party. She loves themes, masaene Halloween is her favorite holiday that there is. Um, did would you how would you would you give advice to women listening on how to tell people or how what to expect back?

I thought about this on the way over here, and I feel almost like when you have a miscarriage, you're kind of raw of that joy of sharing this great news with everyone, because that's the stuff that I live for, you know, Like I have Pinterest pages saved like hidden on how to do reveals and how to tell people in parties, and for me, like, I was just so happy and so excited to finally share with everyone, and I feel robbed. I had all these cute moments that

now obviously aren't cute anymore. And I know that sounds like a shallow Obviously there's way worse things, but no, in that moment, it's it's it's devastating in a way. And then then when you tell your parents, like by time we told our parents for our fourth pregnancy, they were kind of like, okay, they're so they're just worried and cautious and scared, and it's kind of sad that you want to be celebrating but you're also nervous. But I will say, you still have to make it. You

still have to do something to celebrate your pregnancy. So we didn't go crazy public this time. I didn't have any parties. Obviously, I didn't even post about it on social media. But for my husband, I found out that it was a girl, and so I made like a big banner, and I did all this stuff in the house, and when he came home from Mark one day, you did your major big amy mass celebrations. Yes, I think

video I had to someone is so great. What about you, Jackie? Um, I actually relate to Amy saying about being rob but that was for not because of the miscarriage, but because of that faulty gender tests that I got with my daughter where we had a single X chromosome, which is a different podcast. But um no, but you had once you were pregnant again. Yeah, let me I will say, I'll back it up just a little bit, which is to say earlier when I was talking about that, I'm fine.

I'm fine. I will say that when I got pregnant again and I saw that yes on the stick, all of that grief, that's we were talking about grief. That's when that all came out. So I had the joy and the grief. I released it all and I didn't know I was carrying it, and it just sort of came out, and I was sobbing hysterically that I was pregnant. But it was some of it was most of it was grief. I felt grief and then the joy, so

it's all sort of connected. So and then to bring it back to what we're talking about now that joy, Um, I I believed it was going to be okay. I just have to believe that. So I just let that. I don't know, man, because you woke up every day and that's what you needed. You were like, I believe it's gonna be okay. I kept telling everyone it's like a coffee machine and you always have to warm it up first and for it to work, and never quite the pods. Never, So I'm like, I just needed to

get my body warmed up. But um, but then, yes, I had more issues than once I was pregnant with the testing. I you know, I have to say, I when I had such I can't I can't even imagine the PTSD you had, Amy, because once I got pregnant again. So after like three months of not getting my period, I finally got my period again and we started to try to conceive again, and thank god, it didn't take

very long. I can't even imagine the women who are listening who finally get the green light that they can start try again after a miscarriage, and it takes like a year and then they miscarry again like there are like I said, women are resilient aflow. I had to take a break for me, the for for your marriage, for your own mental sen I needed my life back because we had at that point it had been three years.

At one point I looked back and I was like, in the past two years, I've been pregnant for like a year and a half on off, and so the first two as soon as I got my period, we've tried again. And then after you know, the the late term, and I remember it's called still birth. That's when it's past twenty weeks, which I don't like that saying, so I'll just say miscarriage. But after that, when we took a year off, I was like, I want to go

back to drinking. I want to travel. So yeah, you want to just figure out again who you are and and and that's and let your hormones really, um come back to some sort of normalcy. But I remember being so PTSD in the first three months of Albi's life, like I didn't tell as anybody I was pregnant. I

was petrified to tell anybody. Um. Even when we made it past the twelve weeks, I was like, still so unsure because like you go through something like that, and for me it was all about like protecting myself from like expectations or and then superstitious moving on. Now, I don't want to have anything. Nobody looked at me, Nobody

looked too closely because it might not work out. And Um and Amy, we had watched you, so I think we were all kind of waiting to get past you know what I mean, because oh God, once I heard that that was still a possibility, it was like, oh my gosh, like this is this is like say this is no, this is really like a physical miracle. Um and Amy, can you tell us how you how how and the work you did on this fourth pregnancy, because you changed a lot about your lifestyle for this pregnancy.

And I will say the late term lot, like my experience is much more rare. So I don't want to freak out. Listeners, no, no, no, no, listeners. Um. Ten of the pregnancies that end in miscarriage, eight out of ten of those miscarriages happen in the first three months. Um. And the other thing we should dispel as a myth right now is that And I, for God, I feel this is so it's difficult to even know why miscarriages happened.

Amy brought up previously their chromosomal like for whatever reason, um, something doesn't stick and it can and it's it's very like sometimes some people say, if if it wasn't supposed to be. I know, we've already said if it's not meant to be, summan to be. But no, sometimes it's your body doing its job that the baby was not well or um, the baby was going to have massive sort of it is a good sign to your body, so maybe it's not supposed to be is taking care

of you. But what is a myth is that sex, exercise, working do not cause miscarriages. Because I held a party of fundraiser at my house for a charity a couple of days before I miscarried, and I lifted a few things that we're not that heavy, but I'll tell you I still think about them and I still have to like read in Google that like, that's not what caused your miscarriage and lifted a box. It's fine. There are women working all over the world that lift things and

their pregnancies completely end full term healthy. So you were pregnant with Albie and shooting scandal very screaming, giving birth, murdering people. So another other science facts is that some things that are known to cause miscarriages, which would be the opposite is when there's an abnormal number of chromosomes, genes, which is what Amy had twice, and I think also

what I had. UM. Certain illnesses can increase the chance of miscarriage, Like if you have like the most severe case of diabetes, I think it has to be like watched very closely, but that is something for you and your doctor to work out. UM. And then there can also be abnormalities in the uterus um. And then also it starts to be sort of a numbers game with Amy, which is why I'm really curious about your fourth pregnancy,

because it starts one miscarriage. The doctors are not concerned because it happens to a lot of women, even if it's chromosomal. They're not worried if you have three, which is what Amy started to walk into. Now is when we start looking at really what's going on here? And so tell us what you learned and what you did for fourth For our little Ellie may Mass was here in the world. So in the year I took off, I actually spent a lot of time doing research and

getting tests, like I needed to find an answer. I need to know why this had happened. I didn't just sit with me that, oh, it just happened. I needed to find out. And I became obsessed with doctor's tests and seeing shalists, and at one point I shipped my blood overnight to a specialist in Chicago and it was just this whole thing, and my husband was finally like,

you gotta stop. And I thought, because I have like this very rare autoimmune disorder, it's a skin condition, that it had to do with that, and I went to Finally my therapist helped, and she said, you know, go see one last doctor, go see a high risk specialist. UM the there who you would go to see when you get those three d uh scans scans um paranetologists

for those of you guys who don't know. But like later in a lot of pregnancies, especially if you're an old pregnant woman like we are above thirty five, which is called a geriatric pregnancy, which is literally the worst name for anything ever and was named by a dude. Um, you have to go take a test where it's like a three D picture of and it looks at like every single part of your baby, that it has four chambers of the two chambers of its brain, for chambers

of its heart, that the lungs you're developing. You can literally see every single organ. And so baby's face looks like, yes, so you she sent you to one of these doctors who does that scan. And you know, I had asked him, do you think it's because of my autoimmune disorder? And he said, you know, it could be, but it could

be one of hundreds of things. And you know, if you look back at the last twenty years and the advances in technology for fertility, it's come a long way, but there hasn't been a lot of advance in pregnancy loss. And I and so my doctor said, yeah, we're learning more what some of these causes are, but you know, he's like, we may never know. And what he said to me was, I don't know exactly why it happened, but I know how to fix it. And I was like, great,

I'll take it. And his confidence is what just made me feel so much better. And I was like, all right, let's do this. So what do you say? What was the how to? He said, we're going to do a few things. One, we're going to put you in a low inflammatory diet, which for me, I had never been a diet. Not that not that didn't need I just don't have the willpower. So I s and he made me be gluten free, which you know, I love pizza and pasta, so that was hard. Um. But and I

started exercising. So he basically took your entire diet and made it so that you didn't have anything that would inflame your body, which for most people is like a lot of gluten sodium and now some people, well, he had me and it was also like healthy fats like and so that was the first major body like a breeding ground for babies. I lost like fifteen pounds when I was pregnant, also cutting out the booze probably but um.

And then you know, I was exercising a lot, and then he wanted me I had to give myself blood dinner shots every day and that sucks because those hurt. And then I was on steroids for a little bit. I was on baby as one for a little bit. So it was all these things where and then I for my sanity, he let me come in like every two weeks to get an ultra zone because I was like, and I bought when those at home once you can

hear the heartbeat. But at the end, when I had a healthy baby, I said to my doctor, what do you think it was that did it? He goes, who knows? Maybe none of these helped? Oh my god, after all, but like he's right, He's like, we did what we know can help. Was in your control. You could have just been a crap to It could have literally just been bad luck and bad whatever, And this time it was just it worked. To see, That's when I get spiritual. I have to Yeah, you gotta Amy doesn't And I

respect that about you. Who did you? Guys turn to for like for people who are listening who may have struggled with miscarriage or know someone who's struggling with miscarriage, Like, what does a support system look like to get you through? Someone? I got Jackie side look in the mirror? Are you looking at me? What do you mean? I was like, I was you. I was like markableing you every day. Thank you? And I mean Amy in the village that

you were talking about, I mean without the village. So it really helps to talk to other women who have had miscarriage. And of course my sister who had had three herself, and she had three miscarriages. Yes, she ain't stillborn as well. What this is what I'm saying, women are mind blowing mean while she has four children out so you were all like, you're perfect impressions. Who did you turn so so other women who had miscarriages. It was a big support network for you and what about

you and me? I think after the first one, I didn't really know any of my friends had I knew one friend from high school and my good friends and reached out to her. But now it's crazy now that I've been through it and I put it out there, I don't remember, like I sent an email to everyone and I was like, made me Amy's email. Let me tell you something in the long and short of it. I think it was it through you or through Jared

or who was from both of you? But was it the email that said something like you send a mass email to all of your friends and you said, god, guys, maybe cry. But you said something to the effect of like, if there's any like light at the end of the tunnel, if there's any silver lining to this whole thing, it's that I'm so glad this happened to us and other people because we have so many great friends who were close with and can help us through this. That's what

my husband said. He said, you know, he's like, we're lucky that we have each other, we have families whereas and we have a great group of friends, and we're going to get through this. And he said, there's people out there that are going to have a hard time, and it's it could isolating yourself is feels sometimes what you want to do, but it's not helpful in the end. It really helps to reach out. And me helping my friends did make me feel better. Oh yeah, oh my god, help.

I mean you, I totally the women who had had miscarriages, I did feel like it's part of a really sad club. But here's the weird thing about the club. There's a shipload of women in it. That's what's so weird. It's like there's a there's a lot of women who have had miscarriages, and so it is helpful and a lot of women who have had miscarriages who have gone on to have kids, which is a very wonderful source of inspiration. I joked with one of my friends she had had

like maybe like four or five mischaracters, so sad. But then her kid that she had is super smart, so cute. I'm like, you had a super baby. All of that led down. I have a question. Yes, you were talking about things that cause and don't cause botox? What are we saying on botox? Oh, welcome to l A. I just feel like it is something that causes well, you know,

I sometimes think about like I was on this. I had an adult onset acne guys in my early thirties where I had the worst kind I've ever had my entire life, and I went on a drug called a drug for my face? Can I take it? And a whole other episode is how your skin gets really weird after you have babies, And I don't mean just on your face. Maybe I shouldn't have brought wine for um.

But I was on a drug that I had to go off of like thirty days where I started trying and I got pregnant, like you know, like thirty days, like pretty soon after. And sometimes I think about that. You know. The point is you're always going to think should have, would have? Could have? Like what would have been done differently? What would my family look like if that pregnancy would have stuck for say, is what my family looks like now? Um? But did I cut you off? Jackie?

Were you going to say something about your button? The doctor hat of like one other things I'm telling to you that makes me sound super smart. I have one other thing that sucks about miscarriages. Um, names, what do you do about names? Well, you can't use it again? Can We told everything God? And it was like the name that Jared and I have been talking about since we met and we loved it so much. Can you flip it or use it? No? No, it's fine, We're passive.

But again, name has to go again. I was attached to my name. But I love that. I don't know, but I love that about you, Like I think it whatever works is like to get you through. Like if that's a name you retire because that's an experience you are moving on from and closing the door, and that's named for that experience, or you are someone that's like, that's a name that means something to me, and I get to continue to use it and I get to do what I want. I mean, I don't know, I

don't know. I don't if I went through with Amy went through maybe not well. Also, this is something I did not know going into it, and it was shocking. If you go past certain amount of weeks after you have your surgery, you have to decide what to do with the baby. Tell me about that. I was so you know, some people have funeral, so we opted for cremation and then we went and spread her ashes during and I had like a really nice moment. So at that point, you can't reuse the name. Nope, Nope, Nope,

can't reason that. Nope, I hear you have the chills. I want to cry. Said. What I think is so crazy is what your high risk doctor said, which is, we've come very far in the advances of fertility fertility, and what we've not come far in the advances of

is what went wrong? What went wrong? And I think it's you know, miscarriages has been around since the beginning, but I will never forget at the Christmas after I lost my first pregnancy, and I was sitting there with my great aunt Joan who's eighty nine, and my grandmother who's eighty five, and I told them I had had a miscarriage. Um, my grandmother had already known because she was part of the like I'm pregnant and now I'm

not pregnant. And her sister, who's they're very close, she I think, had told and we were talking about miscarriage because it's great conversation on christ Crave, you guys, while you've had Manhattan's in Buffalo, New York. Um, but we were having Manhattan's and they my great aunt Joan had

five babies and my grandmother had four. And they went on and on to tell me how many miscarriages they had, how many late term miscarriages they had, and it was like something I'll never forget, Like they were just so strong and like yep, like welcome to being a woman and being a mother and it's a nightmare. And my great aunt Joan was like, you know, I buried in eight month old you know, fetus at you know, in

nineteen or whatever it is. And here I am on Christmas Eve with my five kids and my fifteen grandchildren and my twelve Manhattans and my twelve Manhattan's and she says, I still think about that baby. I still think about that baby. My grandmom Pat says she still thinks about her lost babies, and you know that's something that we carry with us, and that is something that we hold in our heart, and it's also, you know, just part of our story, I guess, but I didn't change the relationship.

Just felt made me feel super connected to my family, my the matriarchs of my family, but also like women in general for all time, like I think you feel, so, I felt so connected in my labor to my son because I felt connected that that older women in life had done this before me. But in the same way like I had felt, I felt connected to women that like, oh my god, they're women go through this and this is something that we need to talk about. And I hope that bringing you guys in and thank god you

were here to help me. But I really hope that all of us sharing our stories like today. I hope that there are women out there listening and can feel any bit of better and and just know that there's resources out there. There's Facebook groups, there's track groups, there's so many mommy groups that did you use that stuff? Oh yeah, I went on a lot of those like you know what You're expecting, You're expecting and all those websites and just read about other people going through the

same kind of thing. And it does help to know that you're not alone. And especially now, like I said in the first one, I didn't really know anyone. Now it's like I know so many people. And I think that once you start talking about it, that's when you realize you're not alone. And it does help to talk about, at least my experience. I agree what you said is key. It's about the connection that you had with your grandma and your great aunt. It's the thing that is comforting.

It's you connect you to your womanhood and to each other. And I couldn't agree with through it, could not agree more. Amy and Jackie, is there any advice you would give to a woman who has maybe recently had a miscarriage, or to maybe a woman who has a friend who has had a miscarriage. Yeah, I would say, um, give yourself space to grieve because you don't know where it's going to come out later, Because honestly, you have to pay it. Respect it. As my mother says, it matters,

It matters, it counts, it's a real thing. You're not crazy or whatever judgment or name you could call yourself for going through that process. Give yourself space to grieve, respect that that it happens, and you're going through something. You're going through something, no matter how you try to say it's fine. I I gave myself time to grieve, but also went back to work and then also grieved

at work. I feel bad from my show when I was working on a show at the time, and it was after that appointment where I went straight to work because I wasn't really sure. It didn't really see where they said is it a viable pregnancy? That was me out a fluid. Then you went to work. I went to work and you told your boss, but he's he's great, um, and I just started. I just broke down in his office.

And we would always joke that because you know were I write comedies, and we always say if there's something dramatically like oh, that's for parenthood, like the show Parent. And so I was literally crying, bawling in his office and I go, oh my god, I'm so sorry. This is a real parent a moment right now. And then but he was like, I think you should just go home, and he gave me obviously, He's like, take as much

time as you want. I took off a week and then I came back and it actually did help to be back to work with my friends and everyone knew when everyone was so supportive and yeah, I did cry a couple of times at work and but we got through it. And you know everyone, I think they were a little cautious around me, like didn't know what to say, but them just letting me talk and cry if I

needed to was it was really helpful. What advice would you give to maybe someone who's recently or had a miscarriage in the past, or a friend who what could a friend do to some for someone who may be going through a miscarriage or Yeah, I think, like we said, bring over some drinks and some food, sushi and beer and just say I'm here for you, and it sucks right now, but it does get better and eventually you'll have your baby. That is one other thing my therapist said.

She said she loves being a fertility and loss specialist because there's always going to be a happy ending because no matter what, there will be a way you can have her baby, whether it is so if you want that, yes, so if you want to have a baby, you'll you'll get your happy ending. So just know that it sucks right now, but the there will be a light at the end of the tunnel. Can I make a disclaimer before you close? Yes, if I made any jokes that were offensive or just you did not, I'm sorry not

Also like to yes, humor, humor you guys. I'm trying to think if I would have any advice. I think that was really good about space. Um you're good with hugs. Yeah. I felt it really helpful to talk about it. I just really did, because my god, you know what we didn't talk about. I did feel ashamed, Oh my god, and the failure the whole I did. I it sucks, but there is something about being a woman and being perfect, especially because you're supposed to be good at having a baby,

that's what your body is meant to do. And you feel like you have failed in some way and you feel ashamed that you didn't do a good job or there's something you did wrong, and that is the freaking worst. Like I definitely felt like I said, like I kept thinking about I picked something up or I was on an acne drug and that's why it's the choices I made that made it so that I put my family through this. Um. So I felt a tremendous amount of

shame and I felt guilt and I felt embarrassed. UM. And like Jackie said, I think these are really really they're real feelings, UM, and you shouldn't sit alone with them. And I think, UM, it's really helpful to talk about it with either a professional or a friend who you trust and can hold you and put you in a safe space. UM. Well said, So yeah, you guys, we have finished our bottle of wine of Solve Blanc and

it was helpful. And UM, I want to thank Jackie Side and Amy Mass so very much the bottom of my heart for being here and sharing your story. You've heard it helps sharing your story because I know that that I've done talk. I haven't talked publicly about my miscarriage, and I think it was because it was meant to be said here. Uh, that was meant to be. That's my experience of it. UM. So thank you guys so

much for listening to this episode of Katie's Crib. Thanks for going on this journey with us, and UM subscribe tune in. There's going to be more happier topics. We're or not you guys. Motherhood is a mixed bag of ups and downs and all sorts of sideways. So and pimples on the butt um. So thank you guys so much, and cheers, cheers, cheers, find tracks into the cane ride