Let’s Help Mamas Make More Milk w/ Krystal Duhaney

That's right, folks, it is National Breastfeeding Awareness Month, and at the end of the month it is Black Breastfeeding Awareness Week. You guys know from listening to Katie's Crib that breastfeeding was literally one of the hardest, most challenging, craziest wild rides around motherhood that I've ever had, and so I love doing episodes about it. And here to honor National Breastfeeding Awareness Month and Black Breastfeeding Awareness Week,

we have Crystal do Haney. She is freaking awesome. She's an educator on all breastfeeding issues. She has a registered nurse, she's an International Board certified lactation counselor. She's a breastfeeding mommy of two and she's got another baby on the way. Guys. She's the founder of Milky Mama, which is an awesome company. It makes delicious lactation treats designed to promote breast milk production. I eat them on the regular. They are freaking delicious,

and her company is incredible. It's dedicated to educating, supporting, and empowering parents to have the best breastfeeding journey possible. She's here and she's awesome. Please welcome to Katie's crib. Crystal du Hainey. Could you be cooler? Stop? You make cookies and delicious treats that help us breastfeed our children, and you put your money where your mouth is, and you literally provide true help and social justice in an area that is highly lacking in terms of black lactation

consultants and and helping black women to breastfeed. This is all incredible. And when does your child do October? So I'm doing October about six months along. So if you hear me like burping or making weird noises, please don't mind me. I'm just six months pregnant at the time of this recording. We will not judge you that you should ever feel that you found a safe space to burp, to complain about your acid reflux, you're swelling ankles, etcetera, etcetera.

It is here. Tell me about your personal breastfeeding journey with your first two and how it pushed you to create milky Mama. Okay, that's a tough story. So with my son, he's nine, by the way, when I was pregnant with him, I was a nurse on the floor and I felt like I knew as much as I could as a health care professional, and I my doctor just would say, hey, you know, breastfeeding is good, but

that was really it. I didn't have any classes. Everyone that I saw on like in the brochures, was like smiling gloriously with this baby that was just latched perfectly, and I was like, oh, it's gonna be easy. I can do that. It's natural, right, So outcomes the baby. Then the nurses are like, here's your baby, feature baby, you know, keep this thing alive, and I'm just like, okay, no pressure, sure, no problem, I do this all the time, right,

So latched the baby on super painful. But everywhere else that I had read or had heard. You know, it was like, oh, it hurts in the beginning, but it's okay. And I'm like, okay, you know problem we went home, you know, screaming baby, nipples falling off. Basically I get it. And none of my family, you know, it is maybe not an unknown fact, but a lot of black families in America don't breastfeater, don't have generations of breastfeaters to

get knowledge from. So no one in my family had breastfed before, so asking my family wasn't an option and you're good no. So when I went to my provider, I was like, hey, I'm really struggling, you know, I don't feel like this is normal. What can I do? And he said, just give formula. And before I go into that even further, there's nothing wrong with formula. Like I said, no one in my family breastfed. I wasn't breastfed. I care not, Okay, I think, yes you did. And

also we have to put out there. I keep finding moms who are breastfeeding even a little bit, and they supplement with formula. I try to always explain to them just because you're giving formula too does not negate the benefits of breastfeeding people are like, all of a sudden, I'm a failure because I'm giving formula. I'm like, no, you're not. It's all great. One teaspoon of breastmolk has

like millions of germ fighting sales. So even if you're giving maybe a drop a teaspoon, any amount of breastmolk is beneficial. And we have to stop this this culture of it's either this or that. It's not all or nothing. However, you feed your baby really is nobody's sucking business, right, it's your kid. Do what you feel as best, because a happy healthy mom is a happy healthy baby. I've seen so many parents that are struggling to breastfeed and

it's really really affecting their mental health. And then you throw in postpartum hormones, postpartum anxiety, postpartum depression, all of this stuff which is not healthy. So I wouldn't much rather you'd be healthy and happy and and your baby be healthy and happy than you to stay up every two hours pumping all night because you have this you know, dispurge of being judged because you have to breastfeed. Your

baby will be fine. You will be fine. And I think that we have to stop that and support each other no matter what. And like you said, it's so not an all or nothing situation. Like someone in my life right now had a baby was born with torda callis, which means just like you know, she her head is super tilted to one side because of how she was in utero for a long time. And the mom is pumping and it's like, I'm not a breastfeeding mother and I'm like, yes you are, and she's like, no, I'm not.

The baby is not on my breast, and I said, listen to me. You're giving your baby breast milk in a bottle. Also, you're cuddling with your baby and she's sucking. She's suckling at the boob once in a while, Like yes, she's also having a lot of bottles too. And the mom was convinced to identify herself and was having such anxiety and I'm like, wow, like this ship runs so deep.

You guys, like the anxiety and it's irrational because your hormonal and irrational and trying to make sense of something that there's no way for you to be good at it. You never practiced, You never practice like you never do it until you do it, it's really hard. Pumping is breastfeeding too, By the way, can we just all agree you do not have to latch her baby onto breastfeeds. So you've heard it here first from Crystal do Haitima. Pumping is also breastfeeding, yes, But the point is that

I wanted to breastfeed and it was my goal. And to just dismiss that, whether it was for racial reasons or just because breastfeeding wasn't promoted nine years ago as much as it is now, maybe who knows. But I felt so defeated. Um, but to being the strong woman that I am, I went home and said, no, I'm going to do this, and so I investigated and researched my way to breastfeeding my son for over two years

while also dealing with postpart and depression as well. So when I got pretty with my daughter, um, I was like, there has to be a better way. This cannot be motherhood, right, I mean, you see these pictures and everybody smiling. There

has to be something and something missing. And so I began researching ways to promote my own milk production for my own selfish reasons, because I wanted to have a better journey and I became a certified le Teaian consultant, and I began talking to other parents and realized that so many others had the same struggles that I did, across all races, across all countries. This is just an

ongoing the issue. And so I developed this delicious cookie recipe to help promote my milk production because I like sweets, because I was pregnant with a little girl. I don't know if it's old wise hill, but oh honey, no, I felt it too. Obviously, there's not breast milk in these lactation cookies. I mean, good lord, So, yeah, it's no breastmolk. You'd like to save that for the babies. Could you imagine if we have this like farm of Moms hotel in our cookies. Yeah, none of that's going on.

But we have just nice healthy ingredients like oats, oats um and brushes which has lots of vitamin B in there to help promote lactation, flaxy, lots of whole grains, just lots of healthy ingredients that have been time tested per generations across the world to help promote lactation. Yeah, you guys will hear if any of you women listening who are pregnant or have little ones or are thinking about getting pregnant again and taking a different stab at breastfeeding.

You start to hear all of these things about oats and flax seed and nuts and really big like healthy fat complex carbs. And I remember trying to get my milk production up with my son and I was just like, Oh, someone told me like a really yeasty beer. And I'm like sending my husband to like a like a specialty

beer place to get me something. It's like totally insane. Um, But you do all the work for us so that we don't have to go around scrounging for all like flax seed oils, so that it's literally like all baked into these delicious treats. Yeah, can you give us an example just so that our mouths are watering like minar right now? Like, what are some of the cookies and treats that are offered? So we have old milk chocolate chip, We have peanut butter, peanut butter chocolate chip, salted caramel.

We also have an emergency brownie, which is our signature product. It's the Bob. I love that. Yes, we also have a lactation brownie, which is similar to our emergency brownie, but not as potent, So if you're not having like an emergency, you don't need an emergency brownie. We also have herbal supplements for those of you that don't really

cook some browny of all day, I completely understand. So we have herbal supplements that are fat free UM, and they're just concentrated herbs that you can put under your tongue or in a liquid or something or one of our delicious drink mixes. We have milky Melon, which is my absolute favorite. It's like a lactation cool aid almost. Then we have Lactaian lemonade Lemonate sorry, let moonate, I love it. We have Pump and Punch, which is they're

all just like drink powders that you can pour. And then they have smoothie mixes UM for those of you that wants have been on the go so you start making this stuff on yourself. And was your issue? I know you had said with your son that it was really painful. Was that because of something specifically or and also was supply an issue for you both? It was lack of education, lack of support and all of that combined turns into a decreasing or lower milk supply. Oh yeah,

because guys, listening stress is a big, big issue with apply. Yeah, and there are a lot of things that you just you don't know and no one tells you. So that was one of the biggest reasons that I started my company. Is not just the cookies. Yeah, they're delicious and they're effective. But what was so important for me is to help educate and support breastfeeding parents, pumping parents, supplementing parents, no matter what, so that we could all have this beautiful, empowering,

confident journey. Because I remember that being a parent, a new parent, I just felt so like not confident. So it was just my mission to just really help educate people so that they would know, Hey, this is what it's supposed to happen, this is normal. This is not so confident in your choice. If you decide, hey, you know what, I breastfed for one week and I'm good, I'm done, I don't want to do it anymore, I will support you. And if you breastfeed for ten years,

I will support you. Um. I think that that is what's so so important. It's just education. Um. If I would have had the education for my health care provider every prenatal appointment instead of saying here is and may defeed it. I think I would have been much more prepared and had a better outcome. I'm you're really just filling my heart right now, because it's not cool. Guys. None of us are living in villages anymore where we're

surrounded by breastfeeding women. And I similarly to you, even though I'm in a white family, my mother didn't breastfeed either, and neither did my mother in law, and I didn't have anyone to talk to personally who could literally like show me, like put your boob like this in the baby's mouth. Aside from the five minute lactation consultant visit that I had in the hospital when the baby was two minutes old, and I was so stressed out and hormonal. Anyway,

I don't even know what they said. And thank god, it's so unfair, which is what I want to get into with you, that I paid a ridiculous amount of money for a top Los Angeles lactation consultants, Linda Hannah, who's incredible and has come on this podcast to come and do home visits with both of my children. Because even when three years had gone by with my daughter, I didn't remember how to do it. I didn't remember. Also, she's a different mouth, she's a different latch, I'm a

different person. But the whole time I was thinking, my god, if you don't have the funds for this, or you don't live in a major city where this information was given to me, that there's electation consultant that would come and visit my house and you don't have that the finances or whatever it is that's holding you back, you are fucked, Like what are you supposed to do? Get formula?

But then that's the whole other thing is that formula is so expensive, like it all is expensive, and it's so taxing, and it's just I mean, we could talk for hours about just the shitty postpartum care that we as women have and parents have in the United States, but that's again who another issue here. Yeah, but what you're doing is you're really making a stand to change it. You are, You're making a major stand to change it.

There's so many breastfeeding tips, which is why I think what I did wrong is that people are so obsessed with the baby coming that they spend a lot of their pregnancy, prepping the baby room and what stroll are we going to get and as our registry done for our thing and all that, and everyone just leaves breastfeeding to I'll just figure it out when I get there. And I don't think it's not that you need to stress yourself out by taking eight thousand breastfeeding classes. It's

not that. It's that I do think I would have benefited from in my pregnancy, honestly, like following Milky MoMA on Instagram and just every day looking at some breastfeeding words, some tips, some like you know, so that when I got there myself, it wasn't also dealing with ship that I had never heard of and was like a foreign subject. Like I just think it would be helpful to like familiarize yourself with the word filange or production or colostrum or how to hand express, take your own boob, push

on it practice. I agree, And we actually offer a breastfeed course called Breastfeeding one oh one. It's online, um and it covers everything that you need to know from pregnancy and like the first couple of weeks of giving birth, because I wish, like I said that my doctor every appointment said hey, here's this new breastfeeding topic for this appointment. Read this so that way it's not such a shock after So yeah, I educate yourself prior to giving birth,

because there is a saying that breastfeeding is natural. But again, like that was years ago. It doesn't come natch, It does not come naturally. It doesn't like you know, like it is a skill, and not only is it a skill for you, but it's a skill for your baby. Like your baby might know how to suck. All babies are born knowing how to suck, but they are not. They don't know how to lad, they don't know how the food gets down there. I mean, it's like you're

both learning together. You're both learning together how to do it. What breastfeeding Let's say the baby is like a week old. What are you any breastfeeding tips? You know what? Mine? Nolise is Finalalactation Consultant. Yes, I have so many. Okay, one of my favorites. This is like newborn, not really

a week old, but this is a new born. This is how to get your breastfeeding journey off to a good start from the beginning, because that's like usually when we like function up is in the beginning, it's like that is one percent when I was already fucked like bad. So in the beginning, babies out right of your vagina or your surrogate or your belly is a c section. However baby's born. What you're gonna do is you want to latch, maybe on it as soon as possible if

you can. If you can't, then that's okay. Then you want to start hand expressing right away. A lot of parents say, if if I can't latch, I'm gonna pump. But when you a colostrum super duper thick, sometimes the pump can't remove it. We get discouraging, we're not producing anything. We stop pumping and then goes down the drain. If your baby is latching, what you want to do is you want to hand express colostrum. After every feeding. You're gonna feed that to your baby in either a medicine

cup or on a spoon. What that does is it make sure your baby gets all that extra milk so that they get their weight up, so that they get their poops and their peas up, so that you're not like freaking out at their at their pediatrician appointment when they lose weight and you're sending extra signals to your supply and your body early on take it off to a good start, so you're moving extra milk. So if you do that for the first week and you do it well, then it's just already starting off on the

right foot. I have never heard of this, and this is genius, Like why did I not even think about hand expressing after a feed to keep asking my body to keep like making it for supply. And then also you can just collect it in a little medicine cup and then put it in like a medicine dropper or freeze it or whatever you want to do, Like you don't have to feed it to baby right away if baby is doing well at the breast, which a lot of us don't know either. We're just like I think

babies eating. I have no idea, um, so to tell you want to look at diaper output for the first week, they should have one wet diaper for every day. So if babies one day old, they should have at least one p diaper two days old, at least two by about day four, depending on your type of labor that you have, they should have yellow, seedy poop and not that dark green you know maconium poop tar. Guys, Yes, it's tar. It's literal tar. It's so gross. So if all of that is happening in the first week, all

as well. Um, So you don't have to give that that colossum if you don't want to, and you can store it for you know, it's like liquid gold. You can put it on anything or give it another date. But do that in the first week. It doesn't have to be every feeding because being a new parent is exhausting, but as after as many feedings as possible, and that will get you off on the right start. That is genius.

And like there are videos online of like had a hand express right because I remember being like what am I doing? Am I a cow? It's definitely a skill. A lot of us just squeeze um and it's not a squeezing. It's like a copy and then you're pressing back and then compressing and releasing, so it's not squeezing. You're gonna squeeze all day. You can get a much out. Yeah, don't just if you're listening to this podcast, Joe, don't

like squeezing away. That's not what it is. You can like go on the milky Mama Instagram and you can see how to self express a video on that or YouTube to Also to note, if you're someone that's like crushing these milky mamma delicious cookies, just because you stop taking the cookies does not decrease your milk supply. Correct No, and also disclaimer. Um again, support is so important to me.

So if you are not nursing or not pumping and just you know, chilling at home watching TV and you eat cookies, your milk supplies walking to increase, like you still have to do the underlying things that are necessary to increase and promote your milk production. So they are magic. They just help support lactician in a healthy way so that you can use all of the education that hopefully you'll get from us to to help have a healthy

and happy breastfeeding journey. But as long as you are maintaining your milk removal sessions either my pumping or nursing or hay and expressing or however you do it, your supply should be maintained. Also, people who are listening who are in the throes of an early baby, breastfeeding is so fucking hard. Your baby is learning how to do it. You're learning how to do it, so each session is like an hour, your nipples are falling off, you're doing

it all the time. Whatever happens happens, of course, but also just know, like it's seven months old baby, I only breastfeed like four times a day and it takes

me maybe seven to ten minutes tops. That's awesome. I hate just are people my seven month olds because they were just like my son would like he didn't sleep through the night, and he would still, which is a whole another thing, like your babies will sleep through the night when they sleep through the night, Like your baby doesn't have to sleep through the night a two weeks older. It's completely normal. Yes, but my baby didn't sleep through the night, and then he was teething and so he

would wake up throughout the night to nurse. And it wasn't always great, but I wanted to do it and it was fun and there were moments that I loved. And you know, being a mom is sucking hard in general, right, So even when he was older and teething and stuff like that, it would take he would breastfeed for a long time. Not for a long time, it was just frequently he would like cluster feed and then he would wake up that night and all of that stuff. It

was tough. Yeah, See, I haven't gotten She's seven months and she has not started teething yet, and I know it's coming, and I'm terrified. As soon as you get into a groove is when everything gets messed up. So like we're in such a groove right now, and cut two. If I was doing this podcast with you, Crystal next week and I'm like, she's stir feeding. We're up all night. I have all of this stuff packed, like I'm going and I'm going to shoot a movie and like my purse.

Like I always get so panicked when I go back to work because I feed a lot at the breast and then when I go to work, it's like a big shift in my body to have to rely so

heavily on the pump. And also just as soon as you go back to where things get crazy, where like all of a sudden, I'm not drinking enough water and I'm not getting as much sleep and all of these things, and you're staring at the bottles while you're pumping exactly, and you're and you're stressed, and the bottles while pumping, so everything just gets wonky um, and so I always throw your products in my purses as just like, oh, remember this is your other full time job on top

of being a mother, on top of being an actor. So like, let's try to keep up milk supply and keep our slorgan take up and our water and our herbs and our stress levels down. And when I pump, I like look at videos of my daughter and I meditate and I breathe. I love that cover the bottles. Don't look at them because you don't want it to become like a counting game of like I only made this so many ounces on this boob and this many

ounces on that boob and all of those things. And make sure your flanges are the right size too at

that in there. Oh that's the biggest thing, guys. We never talked about this, and this is also not taught from lactation consultants, but the filange, which is the pump part that fits over your nipple, and it's sort of like the shape of a cone has to be the right size for your nipple, not only because then it's not painful, but I mean it helps get the milk out correct correct, And one can be a different size than the other because our breasts or sisters are not twins.

So you gotta really got to measure I mean things that we did not know and no one would tell you. As mothers, we can be super self critical and overstretch ourselves as we know this to be perfect. So I'm curious that I'm going back to work and you're an entrepreneur. How do you handle running a business being the mother of two with a third on the way. How's your mom guilt? How do you feel about being a working milky mama? My mom guilt is present all the time.

I really have to like sent her myself and realize that I just like I tell everyone else, like I'm doing the best that I can. You know, I think that being a business owner because I know that not only is this business what feeds my family. I mean my husband works too, hands a great job, but I also have employees. Um, I have a team and it provides for their families too. So when I'm working and my kids want me to play and I can't, it's such a hard struggle with you know, am I a

bad mom? While I'm to provide from them that I'm sure just any working well and that has to go to work, you know, has to struggle with So I just have to keep things under her perspective and and no when to be present and no when to shut it off, and no one work will be there tomorrow, and just try to balance and not beat myself up and just give myself grace. I think that's one thing that I've learned. And she just give myself grace. My

daughter taught me that. She said, well, me, just just say sorry to yourself, don't you know She's just She's just said's so sweet. Yeah, she's amazing. So she taught me to just forgive myself and to not hold things, you know, hold myself accountable for so many things because it really adds to pressure and can cause depression and anxiety and lots of things that I don't like to

deal with. So give yourself grace. Guys, you told me why you created Milky Mama, and I want to talk to you about how Milky Mama provides education and stuff like that. What are some of the things that Milky Mama is doing current me? So, currently we have my entire team except our shipping department. And so if you call email smoke signal D m however, you're going to talk to a lactation consultant free, you charge, like we don't charge you to call us and talk to us

and ask questions. I do alive almost every Monday since I've been pregnant. You know, day, it's life, But I try to do a live every Monday where I am on Instagram and Facebook live demonstrating how to latch with my fake boob and my fake baby. We have an eight number, it's eight seven seven eight eight milky super cute, and you can call us Monday through Friday and ask for ask for lactation consultant and will answer your questions.

And then if you go to our Instagram page, if you don't catch me live, my previous lives are safe, so you can just scroll through our our type of videos and watch flatching or you know, get answers to common questions. So I try to do that every single Monday, whenever possible. We also have a really robust email marketing system.

Or every month, if you say, hey, I am nursing or I am pumping and my baby is two months old, every single month you'll get a new email with tips for breastfeeding a two month old or breastfeeding a three month old as you progress in your journey, and you also get this really cute certificate that meant that would have meant so much to me, or it just says, hey, you are amazing no matter how much milk you produce. Congratulations for making it to three months or two months

or however long. Oh I just got goose bumps. I just got to goose bumps. I think that's really important. I would have loved that too. And I try to give that to my friends who are breastfeeding, you know who are like, oh shit, I you know, I'm giving formula too, And I say, you're doing uh may zing. Besides all the classes, um that are free and all of these ways to help our mama's tell me about the Milky Mama's Scholarship Fund. Oh yeah, so last year, um,

we launched a scholarship fund. Um. When I became a lactatian consultant and i'd be CEO sed International Board certain Lactation Consultant, I realized that there weren't very many, like there's a group on Facebook of black lactation consultants, but they earned a lot of us in there. And I was trying to figure out what are the numbers, and I found out that less than one percent of lactation consultants are black, which is kind of sad because representation

doesn't matter, you know. And when you pair that with the fact that Black women have the lowest rate and breastfeeding when it comes to any other race, and Black infants are dying at multiple, you know, rates higher than any other race, you kind of start to think that everything is connected. And then you also think about all the generational and trauma and slavery and all of that

other stuff that just creates this big giant ball of crap. Right, So I realized that something had to change, and I wanted to kind of not only raise representation by being a black woman showing hey, I breastfed and I you know, I support you, um, but also allowing others that wanted to support other women and wanted to help women learn how to rescue as well, um that are women of color,

to achieve their dreams. So we started the Milky MoMA Scholarship Foundation, where last year we ordered thirty applicants with certification to become alloctation consultant or if they had already completed the ninety hour course we paid for their example to become an International Board certified Victation consultant. I have goose bumps. Again, doesn't happen to me much these days,

but because I'm so tired of two children. But oh my god, that is just really important, awesome work that you guys are doing to make change and to keep on the topic of race and you being a black woman entrepreneur starting this business yourself, which by the way, the community reaches over five hundred thousand Milky Mamas worldwide, which is incredible, and congratulations on this, but you run

this business by yourself. In an Essence magazine, you noted that in the beginning you actually framed from being the face of the company because you were afraid that if people knew you were black, you wouldn't get sales. So what changed that for you? A day Like, I mean, you know, I never did lives. I would never show who I was um. And so one day I got off work. A lot of people were asking questions and doing like and I couldn't keep up with answering them all.

And I was like, you know, it would be easier if I just went on live. And I just kind of struggled with myself and I said, you know what, effort, Let's just do it. And so I went on Facebook Live and showed my face and just said, hey, I'm Crystal on the Owner, and just act like I was as confident as I could be, even though I was terrified inside. And they loved it, and they wanted me

to come back every week and nothing changed. And I mean, you know, every now and again we get some crazy around Black Breastfeeding Week, which is the last week in August.

But for the most part, you know, I've been really embraced by the breastfeeding community, which has has been really you know, I opening and really inspiring to let me know that hopefully, you know, the world is changing and that women of color and black business owners can not be afraid to show that they're a black owned business and it really shouldn't have to be a thing that we're a black owned business and we're just a business owner. What are your dreams for Milky Mama in the future,

Oh wow? Um. I hope that we continue to reach parents all over the world. I hope that through our company that parents everywhere that choose to breastfeed or choose not to breastfeed or whatever. Just figdn a place of support where they can come and just get non judgmental, unbiased support for their feeding journey and their parenting journey. And I hope that we develop new products we already

are kind of like the cheesecake factory actation products. What advice do you have for other parents who might have a great entrepreneurial idea like yours to change the world? You know, go for it. There are lots of tea and cookie companies in the world, right but walk down the bread out there hundred different types of breads. But that didn't stop the next bread company from starting their company. If your product or service solves a problem, people need it.

You know, we need more problem solving things in the world. So go for it. And I support you, Crystal. I just think you're so wonderful. Thank you. I think your whole business Milky Mama is so inspiring. I think how hard you work and the incredible efforts you're making to try and fix the horrible disparity in lactation consultants and all of that is just huge. Between the fund and all of your access to education surrounding breastfeeding is awesome. Thank you and thank you so much for coming on

Katie's Crib. And I encourage everyone to follow Milky Mama on Instagram to crush those drinks and smoothies and cookies and really use Milky Mama as your source to help yourself and help your friends on your breastfeeding and feeding journey. All of it um and Happy Breastfeeding Awareness Month. And at the end of the month it is Black Breastfeeding

Awareness Week, and there's also many other weeks. There's Latin Um, there's Hispanic, there's need of American, there's Asian, and there's so many drop the month and will be highlighting every single one UM this month, So stay tuned, stay tuned everybody. Thank you so much for listening to Katie's Crib. Please share, like, subscribe, tell your friends, and also I want to hear from you. I'm always reachable at Katie's Crib at Shonda land dot com.

Bye guys. Katie's Crib is a production of Shonda Land Audio in partnership with I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from Shandalan Audio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite ships. Do stool Story the story story story You can never know, never until you try. You the you can need to right