Boys Will Be Boys w/ Dr. Adam Price

in the right direction. When I talk about this topic with my New Yorker mom friends. Because I'm here in New York shooting you guys, I was like, who could I talk to? And they said I had to bring in Dr Adam Price to help me navigate and talk about this topic. Dr Adam Price is a clinical psychologist with more than twenty five years of experience working with

children and their families UM. He's published articles on family and child therapy in The Wall Street Journal and Family Circle, and author of the book He's Not Lazy Empowering your Son to Believe in himself. Great title. Thank you. I'm very excited to have you here to talk about what goes on in a boy's world and how we raise them to be good men. So I want to start with play because I know you I don't do prominently deal with older, more teenage boys, or I do now, Katie.

But listen, before we start, I want to tell you I think it's so amazing that you're using your platform and your fame to do this and to have wonderful conversations for a couple of years now with you know about parenting. It's really you're doing a good thing here, very nice. Thank you. I appreciate that. So I work with teens. I have worked with kids from you know,

from his youngest two. Yeah, great, So, like I have a two year old, and of course, being me, I was really into making sure he was playing with all sort of gender neutral toys and colors and all these kinds of things. You know, my kid is obsessed with trucks, buses, motorcycle helmets, scooters, wheels, and also he's obsessed with wrestling, like that's like a huge part of his play. And I hate it, like I'm uncomfortable by it. Why are

you uncomfortable? I mean, I like it to a point, but once it starts getting like really aggressive, which he can do and be Um. I I'm just like, like, I don't like this, Like it's just like not how I physically communicate. Um. And I've read a lot of books about how important that is for boys in their way of playing, in their way of like physically touching with their dad or their friends or whatever that is. Um, So can you talk to me about boys how they play?

And again, this is sort of sweeping generalizations in a way, because I don't think this is all boys. Well, whenever I talked to parents of young kids, get asked that question. So it really is on the minds of parents, especially today, and it's a great place to start. The thing is that boys and girls that their brains are not really that different. Uh. We'd like to think that there are boys and as a very different men and women are,

but boys and girls brains aren't that different. Boys and girls developed the same skills, the same abilities, but at a different rate and in a different order, Like girls talk earlier and boys talks lower. Well, yeah, so here's that's a good example of So for example, a girl's vocabulary at twenty months is larger than boys, but only by about you know, ten or twelve words. Now those can be significant words, but it's those kind of settle differences.

But physically there are differences. So you know the old adage boys will be boys. I think it's really true. And there are, of course societal norms. So you know, pink used to be the caller that boys are dressed in in the last two centuries ago, right in the eighteen hundreds, and then then that became what you heard it here, folks, are you kidding? Pink used to be for boys and blue used to be for girls. I

don't know what caused the change. Um, And you know, and you know those those pictures in the eighteen hundreds of boys dressed and dresses little little toddlers, you know. So so there's there's a big societal imprint and impact. But I don't think there's anything wrong with boys being boys. And when I talk about these issues, and I talked to parents and around the country about about masculinity, I

always stress that we want our boys to be boys. Um. The opposite to me of masculinity isn't femininity, it's authenticity. So the idea is to help boys beautiful, oh, thank you, to help boys to be comfortable with who they are, so I don't and with their feelings, but not to be any less rough and tumble. That's who boys are actually, you know. And boys are more from birth and more sensitive than girls. Boys are more fussy, Uh, they're more um,

they need more reassurance. To be honest, I feel like my son is like very emotional compared to a lot of his girls his age that are that are you know, within a month of his birth date. Like, I just feel like he his emotional Um, he gets there quicker, you know, like he'll just cry, you know, and I try again, Like it's really funny. I really try to always be like it's okay, Like I want him to be able to cry and feel comfortable with doing so. Um, at what point is the line where like rough and

tumble play is too much? Or do you hear these stories still of parents of boy little boy crying and parents saying like, don't cry, and and that's sort of right. So that's what happens. And by the way, I want to make sure that when you leave here, you're not going to be worried about your son playing with trucks and guns and all that stuff. Oh god, I couldn't even know, because honestly, what I've learned in motherhood more than anything else is whatever brings your son or daughter

joy is what brings me joy. Like I'll be on the plane leaving my son for a day and all I'm doing is videotaping any truck to send to my husband's But you know, like, because I can't see a truck without thinking of my son, and we're both actors, I don't give a shit about trucks. It's really hard, it's really hard to change these these norms when I was and they're fine. I mean, I really want to be reassuring to you and the parents that are listening.

Kids need limits, and boys need more limits and girls so you know, obviously, um, when they're when they're rough and tumble becomes too out of control, then it's your job to step in because then you're teaching them to regulate themselves and to do it for them when they can't. Um. But but just the kind of thing they do, they've got a lot of energy. God, there's a boy code and you even refer to it, you know from a

young age. Boys here, big boys don't cry, grow a pair, shake it off, you know, And when when when boys are not tough enough, they're told that they're being a girl. Right. So boys hear this, and so there becomes this boy code that that you can never be you know, a worse, a nerd h the dreaded effort, you know which, which we don't like to hear anymore. But kids call each other that, you know all the time. Um, And so boys learning at a young age that they have to

hide a part of themselves. Because boys and girls prove themselves in different ways. This is really interesting, and if you think about it, it it will make sense. Girls prove themselves by who they know, by their social network. This is why when girls get to be in middle school there's a whole mean girl phenomena, and why girls are more cooperative in school because they want to please a teacher. The boys don't really give a hoot because for boys,

social status comes from what they can do. Who can throw a football at the farthest, who can run the fastest, even beat a video game. It's it's unfortunately not who got straight a's or who scored you know, the lead in the school musical. But this is how boys proved themselves and and men have to do this too. We're always proving ourselves, not to women, but to other men. And that's just wiring. It's it's our society and it's and it's it's the messages that we're giving, we're giving

our boys. And so when does that happen? You know, it probably happens. I mean I've seen it. The little soccer field were called a swarm ball, you know, when the kids were three and four. You know, you know, maybe that's a little young, but big boys don't cry. And I've seen parents say the kids, that's probably not the best message. No, you don't want to do that. What do you want to say when a boy cries? You want to just let him cry, you know, and

let him get his feelings out. I unless he's having a temperate tantra, mean, you need to uh, you need to help him to regulate again. But I had a young man in office, he's a college student, the other night and he was really falling apart, you know, he was really under tremendous stress, and he kept almost crying that cheers would almost emerge, and then he would hold back, and I said, you should cry, you know, it's going to make you feel better. And eventually he did, but

it was so humiliating. We can talk about shame too. It was so humiliated to get into that. Yeah, because for him to even in front of his therapist. I've known him for many years now, you know, since he was a high school student, and he trust me. But it still is just that loss of control. So yeah, you let him cry and we can get into it more in terms of, you know, some of the other things. Interesting. Um, so,

where does this go into bullying in school? I know that that word is like, Wow, I feel like it's used a lot. I think it's terrible and horrifying. And I haven't gotten to that place yet. But like the first time my kid is bullied or is bullying, Oh my god, what the hell would I do or will I do when my son's bullying? Well, I don't think your son is going to be a bully. Oh we don't know. But but a bully is different than someone who's being too aggressive, a boy who's being too aggressive

or two mean. And the thing is that we can't raise boys or girls to be so sensitive. And I think we're really veering in that direction, uh, in a in a really scary way. Um, these days, a lot of people write about that now, but we we can't raise them to be too sensitive or to always need protection. Um. I'll say something in a minute that may contradict that a little bit, but but I think that's true. So just like you have to, you know, tolerate your son's

being a little aggressive. That's going to be a part of boyhood. And teachers aren't going to see it because it happens in the less structure of times at school. It happens on the playground, it happens in jim class, are in lunch. You're not gonna necessarily here that he's being mean or bullying unless someone tells you. Um, if someone tells you that, I'll tell you right now. The reactions. I'm gonna be like, oh my god, I'm so sorry. And my husband's going to be like quick to the

like disproving them. He's going to be quick to like, what what did he say? Well, I don't think he said like you know what I mean. Like, my husband's like very um and I love that about him, but he will want to make sure that all the facts are straight. You know, Well, that's good. He's what's your son's name, Albi? Albi, so he's got Albie's back. Yes, oh so that's great. But here's here's a really helpful parenting tip. The parenting tip is not to talk. Holy oakes,

just listen. I have to shut up instead of my husband and we're both talkers. Well yeah, you're your your actress, so you're going to be talked to us, and your son's gonna have to learn to keep up with that. But but the thing is that that it's really important, even at a young age, to understand not just the child's perspective. We think empathy is understanding the child's perspective, but it's really important to understand how that perspective makes

sense to them, you know, not necessarily to us. And once you get there with with a kid and you listen and you ask questions, and also just be quiet, because quiet lets other people have the space to talk, even little ones. Um, you're gonna understand a little bit more about about what's going on if you get the message, you know, uh, I'll be kicked, you know billion in school today the other day I was talking. It was it was kind of similar talking to fourteen year old kid,

who who's whose friend? Who? Someone who wanted to be friends with him and asked him a sensitive question about when he was going on to the next level of school. Because this this young man because of some learning difficulties that repeated a great early on. So he ghosted, he ghoested the kid, and he got back through the older brother. So the parents were wonderful, parents have done everything for

this kid. Um, but we're you know, and I too were thinking, okay, so this is an opportunity to talk about how he feels about his learning issues and how to deal with that situation. So I started doing that, went down that road. Um. I asked him, you know, tell me what you think, and he said, well, I'll tell you something. I don't like that kid. Most people don't like the kids, so I don't want to be friends with that kid. So if I wanted to be friends with that kid, I would have never goes to him.

I would have told him what the deal is. But it was easier for me because I don't want to encourage the friendship. So I'm sure both perspectives are true, but you know, that's his perspective. So I think that for most parents whose kids aren't too aggressive and aren't getting calls all the time, I mean, that's a whole

other issue. Right then it's it's important you can tell you Adam not to be so defensive at first because he wants to hear from Albi's perspective, Because then that gives you a place to start talking to him about what's an appropriate way to express yourself or to push back or to stick up for yourself. So I think that that's that's really crucial. I want to go back and just talk about the other side of the bulling,

which is being bullied. And I want to go back to because I said earlier, I was going to contradict something I said, so I want to be true to my promise. Um. So, so kids boys do need to know how to handle themselves on the playground. And so when I'm working with with kids, I often talk to them about how they recover because sometimes it's just pushing and shoving and name calling. And no one likes to be called names. But if your boy, you have to be able to laugh it off and call it get

another you know, another name. If you're too sensitive, then you're gonna get bullied. You get bullied more so, how a kid recovers, it's really it's important to teach them that even though you're hurting inside, if it's just normal kind of you know, just kind of jostling in the guys of fun, you have to be able to kind of keep up with that because if you don't, you're gonna get bullied more. And kids can be really mean.

You know, they don't have they don't have the some of the social controls that we as adults like to think we have. If you live in New York and you drive, you know that or O L is much worse, Oh my god, much worse. Yeah, you know, you have to be able to talk to somebody. And this is where it gets sticky, because I've worked with kids who I work with them in two thousand, two thousand nineteen. They come in and they say, yeah, I was bullied last year, and I'm like, I saw you every day

every week last year, you know, once a week. Why didn't you tell me? Because they're embarrassed, they're humiliated, and then they don't want parents to get involved, the teacher to get involved, because it makes it worse. But I do think sometimes, especially when they're little, if it's a

repeated pattern, an adult has to get involved. Hopefully the adult is sensitive and can deal with it because not every not every educator is in terms of dealing with it so that it doesn't have ramifications on the kid, but into what's happened. And you know, I practice here in New York and in New Jersey, and in New Jersey they are bulling laws now a number of years. Um, there's a whole procedure that teachers and administrators have to

go to a bulling is reported paperwork conversation. It really backfires though, I feel like that's yeah, that seems not because a kid being bullied probably wants and help, but they also I don't want to shine too much attention on it or yes, because it'll get worse and worse and worse, right right, right, So you have to choose who you're going to tell. But usually when you're at that level, that young person has already has the attention of the schools. Um. Wow. The other thing I tell

kids who are bullied is listen. I've had a few who I'd like to say I kicked the kid when no one's looking, but you know, I can't say that but stand up and yell at them, make them embarrassed, draw attention to what they're doing so, you know, you can shut them down. And I feel like into bullying is such a thing. I feel like you could stand up today and say like you're bullying, Like you could say that very loud, and people would look probably and

get attention for him. I had the other experience, which doesn't it's not so flattering to me, but but it really is, because this is a part of a normal experience in seventh grade, when a lot of this happens. There was a kid that everybody picked on and I wasn't particularly nice to him. I wasn't I didn't beat him up, I didn't, you know, but I wasn't nice to him and he knew it. And we had our lockers next to each other, so you know, I would close his locker, turn his locker around every once in

a while. One day he can I get goose bumps telling you. And this was a long time ago. I'm a little older. He said to me. He said, Adam, why do you do that? Why do you treat me that way? You know, why do you pick on me? And I said, you know what? And I believe his name was Johnny said, I have no idea, and he taught me this kid who everybody else picked on. But he taught me such an important lesson of compassion when I was that age, I never picked on him again. Um,

you're like, I don't know why. Yeah, he just he just kind of asked it flat out. Tell me about consent? Consent? Yes, do you talk a lot about this right now with people and doing lectures about it, Like you must be traveling the Try State area talking about the country and the country because it's really on people's minds, and you know, consent.

So my take on consent is that you're not. Your son is not too old for you to ask me that question, because I think that what we need to help There's a few things, but one is emotional intelligence. We'll talk about that, but helping children understand from an

early age of value driven conversation about sex. Now, it depends what your val use are, but the point is to talk about sex with kids in the context of a relationship, in the context of you know what the meaning is, um, because that's what I think will help them later on. You know, I remember when I was I think I was in seventh grade two. My mother, you know, it's still amazed that she did this. We're getting sex education. And again this was seventy to nineteen

seventy three. UM, and she said to me, Adam, I want you to know whatever they tell you a school about sex, they're not going to tell you one thing. And I said, oh God, I don't want to have this conversation with you. But what is it? And she said sex is fun and sex is pleasurable and that was like, that was great sex education. UM. So you know, there's interesting things that studies that have happened. Uh, people have looked at whether the just say no abstinence message

helps it actually causes higher team pregnancy. Not a good message because it's not sex relationships much a complicated that's so black or white. It's like ridiculous. It's not whether you believe in it or not, it's just that that's

not a good message. Peggy Orgstein, who's written about girls and I think she's coming out with a book about boys, she had a piece in the New York Times about about this issue, and she she looked at Holland and there's a much lower incidence of teen pregnancy in Holland. Kids have sexual relationships, but girls are much more able, according to the research, to be able to say what they do want to do, what they don't want to do.

And girls report, compared to girls in the United States, that their first sexual encounter is within a relationship, a loving relationship, much more so than here that is just a hook up. The reason is because people are more comfortable with sex in Holland, you know, and we can have all sorts of stereotypes, but it isn't more liberal society. But they talk to kids more about it. Teachers talk to kids about it, parents talk to kids about it.

They do it from an early age. So my advice is star talking about sex and get over your discomfort talking about it, because you're the one who wants to give the important messages. The concern is is the messages that boys get. It's going back to what we're talking about a little bit before, you know, which is be tough. Um. You know, don't show any emotions any time you enter

into intimacy with with another person. It's a contract. And and kids are going to be having sex, you know, so parents have to appreciate that they need to talk about it. Um. And if your values are that you should wait till marriage to have sex, that's okay. You can include that in the message, but you're still talking about when they get married and have sex because um, you know, it has to be a mutual relationship, um, where both people are consenting and it's not just to

hook up, you know. And this is more getting into talking to teens about it. Oh my god, I'm no. I'm so scared. What is that? Even, like I can't even imagine. But I do hope that my household is one where we talk about that stuff. I mean, I also want to respect his privacy, and you know, I don't want to know everything if he doesn't want me to know everything. But I also I really want there to be an open conversation about what it is. And

when does that start to happen. I mean it's early, right, I mean I was in nanny for ten years and oh yeah, I was nanny for a very long time, and I remember around maybe five six seven, the boys became obsessed with playing doctor with me, and every time I would go like p in a public restroom, they were trying to climb underneath the restroom door and they kept asking me to see They kept saying, I want to see your butt, I want to see your but they wanted to see my vaginas when they were asking

to see and they went to the parents and I said, um, hey, I just want to let you guys know that this is like a constant conversation at this point, and the kids are are being brought to tears that they have not seen me naked, and I don't know what's happening. And the mom was like, oh, it's because they've never Like she she was very a very private mom, didn't

ever shower with her kids. Yeah, you know, um, her son's I don't think i'd ever seen a girl's body parts, to be honest, and I think they were really fucking curious. But I just I mean, that's already not my house. I mean we're actors. My son has been like backstage on Broadway and all the girls are like taking all their clothes to make their quick changes. So like he's good, but like, I do think that it's still a very hard subject for people to talk about. You know, that's

a wonderful example. I appreciate you bringing that up. They're just curious, right, That's not really about sex, that's about curiosity. So it's an opportunity to to say to them, Listen, there are certain things that are private that we don't show other people. You don't show other people, you know, your penis. Um. You don't ask to see someone else's penis or vaginant unless they give you permission. I guess maybe you don't say that to you know, younger kid,

although they do play doctor. It's very very innocent. You know, we tend to be puritanical in this country about sex. Do you think that that's led to so many of the issues and problems. Well, that and and if you want to get into, you know, talking about emotional intelligence. You know, let's go back to what I said initially. The opposite of masculinity is in femininity. It's authenticity. And

I say this to teenagers and young men all the time. Um. My definition of being secure as a man is being able to at times be vulnerable enough to be able to say to a young woman, is it okay if I do this? Um, it's being secure enough that when you are feeling emotional, and when you do have things you need to talk about, you are able to talk to people that you trust, not to everybody, but to people that you trust. And if you're in a situation where you need to cry and with someone that you

feel like you cry to. It's not a threat to your masculinity because you wanted to talk about shame. This is what happens because of the boy code, because of how we're brought up. Any time a man feels vulnerable or feels exposed, it leads to shame, and it's shame is an incredibly powerful emotion. And to me, every emotion is okay, but shame is really destructive. It's hard for me to help someone who's a shame because I don't want to talk about the issues, and shame says not

I did something wrong, but I am wrong. Right, that's Brendan Brown. Yeah, I was just going to bring her up. Yeah, she's amazing, Um, she's her work has been so helpful. But I quote that line all the time because you can feel wrong. Guilt is okay, but there is nothing wrong with being vulnerable. And so when when men and boys feel that sense of vulnerability, they shut down and then it prevents them from asking for support, you know. And so that's that's part of why the suicide rate

for boys is higher than girls. It's part of why UM suicide is the second leading cause of death after unintentional accidents for boys. For boys, Yeah, fifteen to thirty four. Now that's partly because they don't die have heart attacks. You know, it's not just I don't want to make it exaggerated, but but when I was doing some talks out in Colorado, was presenting with a woman from Colorado, and she said, no, in Colorado, it's the number one

cause of you know, of deaths. Um. Wow, So do you think today's birds and the bees talk that that's not just one talk? Like one big ass talk to me, seems far more pressure than like lots of opportunities and small talks along the way. Listen, we we we all know you're a great actress. I can tell by the questions you're asking that you're a great parent too, because you know saying you know, these are many conversations you

have over time. Um, is really true. You know, boys and girls start kissing, so when they're in fourth grade or third grade, you know, I kissed a girl. I mean it's like a little kiss, and so then I did that in third or fourth grade. There you go. But it's just a comment. It's like, oh, that's really nice. When you kiss somebody. You have really strong feelings for them, you know, and as long as the person wants to kiss you back, um, that's okay. You know. If they don't, though,

you have to respect them. But you bring up another really interesting point that reminds me of a young man I work with who could have probably had any girl he wanted, and I would like to say New York City. He was that good looking and charismatic. He was really into the whole New York City independent school thing. Um, So I was kind of worried about that. I said, you know, we gotta talk about this. We gotta talk

about consent. And he said, he said, Dr Price, My mother has been very clear with me about how to treat women and how to respect them. And you know that's not that's not a mindy I would ever trespass. So I think that's that's important for moms to be strong, like you said about that. It's also important on the other side, though, to tell boys to protect themselves right. Don't be in a room alone with the girl, you know. Um, oh my god, have you seen it go that way? Well,

of course it goes both ways. Um, there's a there's often something that happens, you know, Um, But you know, make sure that you know, you like seven minutes it heavens like not a great idea. Totally played that as well, but I to, to be honest, I was a big fan of a spin the bottle situation because I was comfortable with like a peck. But the seven minutes in Heaven, like I went in there like twice and I didn't do anything. I mean, I just like hid in like

racks of turtlenecks. Like I just was like completely horrified and waiting for the seven minutes. And I was like, hey, how are you, like, you know, like, can we talk about oral sex? Because this is when I'm in pet peeves. It amazes me. But it's still pretty common for girls to give boys oral sex and um, when they don't necessarily want to, but they feel the pressure to do so. So when I'm working with a girl or a boy and I hear about this happening, I say to the girl,

did he give you oral sex? No? And then I say why not? You know you're supposed to experience pleasure also, so that's that's a part of the message of consent. And I say to the boy too, and he's like no, and I'm like, well, then don't let her go down there because that's not fair, you know. Um. So the message of consent is um that it should be. This is what boys need to hear. Your job is to

make it pleasurable for the girl, right. And so when boys get get this idea that it's not about that, it's about how many girls I can have sex with, her I can hug up with and what's my number? And that you know, that's all about that kind of macho masculinity that's really not what it's a out. Um. And so you know, if you're hooking up and this

is a different kind of conversation with the kidder. When you hook up, you know you're you're you're there to make sure that she's comfortable and that she has has a good time. And so you know what I'd like to do is interview teenagers and pick their brains and see what they're thinking about. Yeah, you're so good at using the term hook up, Like I feel like I

haven't said that in fifteen years. Oh it's so funny because my friends said, you want to hook up for lunch and I'm like, yeah, I want to talk to you about your book, which is incredible. Um, thank you again, you guys. It's called He's not lazy, empowering your son to believe in himself, which again, I have a two year old, but I'm afraid of I don't do well with laziness at all. Like I am sure you can tell, I can tell. Yeah, I know. You don't get to be where you are with by being lazy and not

at all. So tell me a little bit about your book. So this is something that I love to talk about, obviously, But when I wrote the book, there wasn't a lot of research on adolescents and motivation, but there was a lot of adults. And the key ingredient is just common sense. It's autonomy. Right, if you have the autonomy to make a decision about what you're doing, then you're going to be much more motivated to do it. Now, there's two problems with that. The first problem is that what we

have forgotten now is that autonomy comes with accountability. So if you make a choice, you know, to stay up at a sleepover, you know, till two in the morning or three in the morning, which is lots of fun, you know, you're still accountable to go to Sunday school or soccer practice next morning. Um, and so what happens is that we rescue kids. And it's it's parents obviously, you know, it's the whole overparenting hell or coopter parenting phenomena.

But um, schools do it too. Um. So the more that we like kids off the hook, we are robbing them of the opportunity to learn earn from their mistakes. And that's what autonomy is about, right, It's about I did this, I made a choice, it worked out. I'll do it again. It didn't work out, maybe a couple of times, and I'll stop doing it. Right. So that's such an important lesson, but it's also the critical factor in in in helping kids to be motivated. What if

your kid just doesn't like school? So so that's the second thing, um, and then after this can ask you a question, Oh please open book. Um. The second thing is that in school you don't have a lot of choice, right, You're you have to do what you have to do, and it can be really boring. And not every kid is able to delay gratification, to be able to see that what they do now is going to pay off

later and that they can wait. You know, there's a famous marshmallow, you know, study that was done years ago. Um so so psychologist. I think he was at Stanford. He put it three or four year old in a room with two marshmallows and a videotaping videotaping and these were all his kids peers, and he said to them, you can eat that marshmallow now, but if you wait till I come back, you can have too. And you

see these kids, that's what's so funny. They'd be on when when little girl went under the table, they would lick the marshmallow and then they would put it down. He foiled these kids. And the kids that waited did better in college. You know, they went to better college is more competitive colleges. It's amazing. This was ten years ago. Oh my god. But gratifications. So some kids just can't

do that. The thing I tell parents, though, and what I really I really want to be reassuring, and so what I tell parents is that if that's your son, that's okay. Yeah, And you've got to learn a different way, yeah, or you're gonna you're you're gonna grow up. You know, there are there's a specific part of the brain that doesn't mature until sometimes until six and that's the prefrontal cortex where we planning, uh, impulse control executive function. That's

my brother. Yeah, Like I knew I wanted to be an actor from the dam. It was too It was very easy for me to have like a passion and a line in a drive. But like my brother was like someone who was like jack of all trades. Like he was good at a lot of stuff, but he

wasn't like particularly obsessed with anyone thing. He was good at sports, he played trumpet, like he was a great kid, but like he went to school, the school that my mom thought he should go to, and you know, and then he went there, didn't know what's major in and was failing out because he became president of the fraternity. And at like twenties six, he like got his ship together and he's like the best, Like you know what I mean, The whole thing turned around. But there were

years where we were completely horrified. Scientists would tell you that that's because of what happened in his brain. Yeah, it's really interesting. So I'm not I'm not a lazy, fair parent. I don't believe that that we should just like kids, give him a shovel and let them take themselves into all they can't get out of um. That's why I talked about in the book, I have a program, But the program is really about not micromanaging them and

giving them some space to the sweet spot. Yeah, and it's it's hard for a lot of parents to fag you're out. But it's also about you know, duct tape parenting. And and then it's about not freaking out. And listen where I practice. You know here in New York, and you know the very competitive, affluent families. So when I say to them, it's your sons. You can ask your son to get a B, but it's their choice to get an A. No, it's not. It's a nice choice,

but it is. That's my philosophy. But the messages don't worry, you know, said limits um, and and be patient and especially if they have something that they're passionate about I'm afraid of. I want to raise someone who is comfortable in his masculine, who is comfortable in his authenticity. Thank you, dr at the price. My second fear is the video game child. I am horrified. I was the last generation to be raised without the iPhone. I didn't have a car,

have a phone in college. So this is like um crazy to me that that kids are literally in front of screens all day long. But video games, video games can be very very positive. Everything has changed. So when they're in their basement playing a video game, they're playing with their friends, right And for the kid that has troublemaking friends, sometimes that's their social life, but they're more

comfortable there. And then most of the kids graduate to playing video games in the same living room and then they have a social life. So, um, so it's not always bad. There are there are kids who only play video games. That's a whole other istion because those kids, to me, have underlying Yeah. But so you are very motivated, right you. You made it in a way that many people want to a few people do. So what's your secret? What kept you going? You know through all the babysitting jobs.

I'm a very very hard worker. I always have been. Like I was never a natural A plus student, but I was an A plus student because I work really hard and I knew I think what struck so hard to me in this episode was girls smarts of how to connect and play on the playground. What was it that you said about like seventh grade girls like that? Chief status by who they know yes, And I think

I've been very good at connecting people. So I think it's a combo of like, I'm a hard worker but also I love people, So I would be the kid. Even though I was getting a sea in physics, I knew that if I went to office hours every single day and got that teacher on my side, that that teacher would maybe feel bad for me and give me. And I don't think I was doing it in any

way shape from a manipulative way at all. I think I just was like, like, I need help, and I my strong suit is connection to you understood something that politics is having a relationship with someone who's in power over you. And you understood that if you develop a relationship with that teacher, uh, it will benefit your Yeah, acting jobs didn't come easy. I had to waitress and bartend and personally assistant cater and nanny and babysit and all those things. Right. I had a part time job

since I was sixteen. Um, my parents really didn't push chores. But I was never grounded or anything. I it was more about disappointment, you know. Um, But my parents were the parent that would like send me to their my room. Um, if I did something to think about what I had done, and then my dad would end up sitting on the end of my bed just sobbing. Well, we talked about my dad's very emotionally available. UM. We call them heart darts in our family. Both my brother and my dad

cried way easier than the girls do. Wow. Well, that's wonderful. You can you can teach me. Thank you. We're wrapping up, if it's okay with you. I want to talk to you about your daughter, UM, who passed away three or four years ago. And I want to talk to because I think we would be missing him. Wonderful opportunity in such a sad thing of of what happened in your life, and talk to us about how that ties in with the book and the working. Yeah. I had a transgender

daughter my wife and I UM named Sam. Sam was born a boy, but came out as transgender her sophomore year of college. UM and uh. A year later, she took her life on her birthday. UM and yeah, I know. It was a terrible tragedy. And up until that point she was, you know, just like a self cleaning oven type kid. You know, she was really easy to to deal with and and every as everybody's best friend. But it really it shook her, you know, in a way that we just didn't anticipate or realize. And and we

knew she was depressed. Um, we knew she was struggling. It was like she pulled out of college. Were not pulled her out of college. Um, But but she ended up taking her life. And so my wife said, I want to start a foundation for for trans youth and help them in some way. And so we started a foundation called the Sam and Divora Foundation for Trans Youth because we thought that Sam was going to take Divora

had she continued to UH to transition. And and you know, the thing is that the suicide attempt rate for transgender kids is forty one. And as I've done this work, and as every trans person I've met, including people in Hollywood, you know, have said to me, um, I've been there. UM. So we really wanted to try to create a safe space UM for trans kids. So we created this foundation. We have retreats UM for trans teenagers in eastern part

of the United States and Berkshire Mountains. And then we have developed a community of counselors UM who are trans agender nine conforming and they've become their own family. So

we have a retreat for them. We're doing an event in Philadelphia in the in the spring for eighteen to twenty one year olds because when we go to the Mazzoni trans Health Conference or things like that every year, UM, we're always asked by that age group, and we're kind of brainstorming because we want to reach many more kids, um, you know, across the country, so we're trying to figure

out how to do that. UM. But yeah, so that's been very meaningful work for my wife and I. It's it's sustained us, but it's also these kids are just you know, they feel so marginalized, and so to have a retreat and then have a kid write you at all and say, you know, this was the best weekend of my life. It was the first time I was able to feel myself, be myself, be around people you know, like me. It was just it's really But the foundation's website is Sam and Devora dot org. Great Sam and

Devora dot Org. UM, such important work you're doing on so many levels. I really we are lucky that you are here, like making waves and changing and helping and supporting people. UM. In Today's Day and age Um. Thank you so much, Dr Adam Price for being on Katie's Crib. Thank you it was so much fun. Thank you all for tuning into Katie's Crib and for your beautiful messages and reviews. I absolutely love connecting with you and hearing your stories and questions. So email me at Katie's Crib

at Shonda land dot com. We may just feature you on an episode, so hit me up. Thanks, guys. Katie's Crib is a production of Shonda land Audio in partnership with I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from Shonda Land Audio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite ships. You've never known until you try, Until me need Ride than