Becoming “Cliterate” w/ Dr. Shannon Chavez

I need to talk about sex. I'm sure many of us have burning questions on our mind, so I want to be open and discussing sex in a very healthy and informative way. Yes, I did just sing that incredible song, but there is is a very vulnerable, triggering topic. I've invited Dr Shannon Chavez to join me. She is a nationally recognized expert therapist and educator specializing in all sexuality yes please, including help for men, women, l g B,

t q I A, and couples. Dr Chavez utilizes a mind body approach to sexual health and wellness and will help address some of my freaking questions because I've got a lot of them. Hi, Doctor Shavin, Hi, Katie, thank you for having me. Honestly, this podcast is such a gift in my life because meeting a sex therapist has been on my to do list for years and see now I just get to use Katie's script to make it happen. So like, thanks so much for being here. Um, can you tell us what you do? What the heck

is a sex therapy? Sex therapy is a type of psychotherapy that focuses on sexual health, sexual concerns, maybe people learning about their sexual identity, and then also a lot of it's coaching and education because let's face it, how many of us actually had decent sex? Said? I mean, even if you did have a great, you know, open relationship with your parents where they like had conversations with you and not just like one conversation like the birds

in the situation and an uncomfortable conversation. I know my mother was terrified and uncomfortable, which then people see and then you get this idea that sex is scary or uncomfortable or bad or dirty, trouble dirty exactly? Um, do you work mostly with individuals or couples? Kind of all of it even throubles people that are in polyamorous relationships.

That have more than one partner, I would say it's basically anyone and everyone, And it doesn't have to be a couple in a relationship because people have sexual issues even outside of of couple ships. So I think it's about any aspect of sexuality, And because so much of it is education based, it's about learning about your body, body image, being able to know how all of these parts work. I mean, living in this culture, how do

we not feel some sort of shame around sexuality? Absolutely in my my history of this, like I had a miscarriage and then you know, it's me a while to get my period back to a regular place to try start trying again to have a baby. And I went to a fertility acupuncturist and she was explaining to me the difference in my discharge too when I was ovulating. I was so horrified that, like I didn't know that on my own because we're not educated about our bodies

and like what's going on? And she was like, well, when is it egg white and yoki and when is it clear? And when is it this? And that means that and that means that, and I was like, holy shit, I don't, like I don't know about my own body at all. And we're not taught these things. We're not taught these things, or we're uncomfortable talking about these things, especially discharge. Discharge guys, hashtag discharge anybody interested in that? Hashtag? Hey,

what's going on with you down there? You know, here's where I'm on this week. But we should I mean, I get so many questions from women that are is this normal? What should it smell like? Feel like? All of these and it's you know, discharge is a good thing, so hashtag discharges good. But like, come on, guys, healthy sex life it comes from healthy discharge. You welcome? Can you talk to me about this? I was very interested in this mind body approach to sex that you have.

Sounds amazing, you know, it's it's a lot simpler than maybe people may think. I think we we think a lot about sex. I mean, we are the only species that intellectualizes sex to the point where we plan it and we think about what it should look like and fantasize, but almost to our detriment because we do it to the point where we develop these mental barriers. Do I look okay, does it look sexy enough? Am I doing

it right? We focus on all of the mechanics. So what I try to get people to do is kind of relax in your body, to let go of the expectations and the goals and you know what my genitals are doing, and just really enjoy a sensory experience of pleasures. So that is about listening to your body. I mean, maybe your body doesn't want to be touched there, or it likes to be touched in a place that you

wouldn't really think that is your pleasure zone. So it's about connecting with the body, slowing down, getting out of the monkey brain, because we're all kind of there in these stressed, overworked lifestyles, so we carry that into our sex lives. And people are distracted, they're bored, they're not

feeling excited about pleasure. So mind body work is really about kind of getting them to like when you're getting like a Yogi sort of state where it's like you are connected to your body and being at this place in this moment, not for any sort of agenda or to do list in quieting your mind. God, I can't even I mean, if you think about it, sex is really primal. We are animals, just like any other species, you know, we need to use our senses to get

turned on. Our sense of smell is our strongest sense when it comes to desire. Yes, So when people talk about pheromones, I feel like people are talking about smells. Maybe is that something else? What is the pheromoney? Interesting? So, pheromones actually don't have a scent, but they evoke emotion. We have receptors in our nose that if we pick up a scent of a partner and we have a

good pheromone match, we actually may feel attraction. In chemistry, if you've ever been around someone, maybe on a really bad first date, and you just realize you kind of cringed around the person, it maybe scientifically that you're a bad pheromone mess. And also I've hooked up with dudes who have been like not into physic like I'm not attracted to them. Like I wouldn't pick them up off the street. I wouldn't pick them. I mean I definitely wouldn't, but I would pick them up in a bar or

whatever the hell. I've definitely had a thing where like a dude has kissed me and I've been like holy shit, like I want to eat your whole face, bot Like I can't fucking take it enough? Like yes, and it was like it was an animalistic pheromone thing. Yes, that's exactly what it was. Thank you science for giving us this. Yes, um, this mind body approach. Um. Do you feel like it really helps your couples and your individuals achieve sexual satisfaction?

I do, actually, because I think people come in and they're stressed out. You know what, I hear people say, I don't have time for sex. I'm tired. I have too much to have time for sex. Help me therapy right now? What do I do about this? If someone said, hey, you're going to go on a vacation, You're gonna go to a spa for a week, we get excited about that. We don't say, what a grueling task. So we think of it as something that's going to be relaxing, rewarding,

and we're motivated to do it. But sex has become a chore and work because I think again those expectations. We have to get turned on, have an orgasm, a penis has to get hard, I have to get lubricated, and because there's so much to do involved, it feels like work. And I think sometimes sex can be let's just get naked and play around, you know, play, adult

play is really what sex is like. I don't know when it started to be a thing where like every time you're intimate with your partner or somebody, it has to involve penetration, has to involve orgasm on both parties to to be able to check it off the list that like bone. I love the word bone guys. Um,

bone town is what I like. Go on a bone town. Um. Why it's such a shitty thing, Like it just sucks because I really enjoy a lot of things that aren't that exactly, and most women less than timber cent and women can orgasm from penetration alone. Is that true? Ladies? Are you curious? It's all about the clitterest, which the majority of the clitteral anatomy is external. So we need friction, we need tongus fingers. Yes, I hear that a lot from my clients. Can I get some more fingers than

my life? And it's just a thing that I think we need more of. So I completely agree intercourse is over rated. It's been the focus of sex. If it doesn't happen, It's the main course for a lot of people, and on average, the average inner course last maybe five minutes. Wow, guys, this is a epic podcast for me today. So thus far we have learned les than ten percent of women can achieve orgasm through just penetrations, and that that the majority of our clitters. And I wear this necklace to

show people what the clitterest really looks like. Wait what, guys, I will be taking a photo of this. I will be posting it alongside this podcast. You're welcome. Also, it's gorgeous. It's more than just a button. People think it's this cute little button. Now you licking stroke, It's the bean

thingy underneath the hood thinging. It's got legs, it's got wings, It's got a shaft that you can stroke and becomes erect, just like a I don't like to call it a little penis because I think it's a lot more vast than a penis. Has eight nerve endings in just the head itself. So a lot of women don't even know what this looks like. I've truly never seen that. Like that looks like an umbrella, looks like a wish bone or a wish bone times too. That's incredible. Did you

design that? Actually? A good friend of mine. She's an artist in New York. Her name is um Sophia Wallace, and she's basically an artist to crib notes the clitterest. That is what she kind of promotes to her art is teaching women about the clitterest because it's our main organ of pleasure. And if we're not getting the right stimulation to our bodies, to the clitterest, our main organ of pleasure, then we're not having orgasms. We're not we're

not conditioning our bodies for good sex. So we probably are bored in the bedroom. We probably are feeling disconnected or checked out, especially if a partner is just really excited about intercourse and not giving us for play and not doing the things that our body needs to feel good. Now, my whole sexual experience post baby has been a roller coast. Right, whether you gave birth vaginally, through C section, whatever you

carry the baby, your body has been used. It's just different. Yeah, I think, um, but I can remember talking with all my girlfriends about like, holy sh it, have you been cleared by Robie? Like you're allowed to have sex with your husband? Should you tell him? Should you not? How much booze do you need to get through this? What the funk are we gonna do? And then I just heard buckets of lube, buckets of wine and just pray, you know what I mean, because a lot of us

that had stitches, and um, we're scared. It was amazing and it was not bad at all. And thank god, if you have the right partner, thank you Adam Shapiro. Um, it can be a great thing and not so scary. But like I was petrified, and even now still like I I get flashes in my brain of like breastfeeding my son during when we're hooking up, and I'm just like, ah, like,

oh my gosh, what what's happening? So many different things I've like fed and grown a human and this is insane, and like, um, is it bad to have those thoughts? I'm sure a lot of women have them. A lot of women have them, I mean, and that is the norm. And I think the more we talk about it, the more we normalize it, because if every woman is having it, it's part of the experience instead of a lot of women feel very isolated. Am I the only one who doesn't feel any desire? I mean, I don't want to

be touched, I don't want my breast touched. I don't want anything to do with sex right now. There's a there's different components. There's the biological component, I mean, your hormone changes. Your body has gone through a major trauma. We don't really talk about that because women are so resilient, but it's it's a trauma to the body, and trauma affects your nervous system, it affects your anatomy, it affects your mental and emotional health, and we just have to

talk about that. What I find is that a lot of new moms don't have a lot of support at all at all. I mean, we don't talk about postpartum blues, which is cent or more women, which let's just say pretty much every woman having a child is going to go through that unbelievable. And also when your doctor just clears you at six weeks, which is also insane, that you literally go through a birth and the trauma of

having a baby and you're allowed through insurance. One doctor's visit, she like checks your regina and she's like good luck, and you're like, wait, what exactly? No consoling or you know, picking is why we trying gonna be okay, Like I don't know what's happening and what if I get hurt? And how do am I to think about this? And yes, exactly, And I think it's about taking it slow. So again, we don't want to jump back into old routine and

patterns because your body has changed you. I think this is a great opportunity to explore new ways to be sexual. Let's focus on outer course. What tell me is outer courses thing? It's a thing? I mean, we want to focus on pleasuring the body outside again, outside of intercourse, what are other ways you can pleasure and may start

with a sensual touch and connection, you know. I think if a partner is so adamant on having intercourse and my penis needs to be a part of sex, then your partner needs to learn new ways to experience so many new there's plenty of opportunity to find new ways to be sexual. And I think this is a great time to do that. Post partum, when you're healing, your recouping, your coping with the changes, and adjusting to new mom life,

which just is what it is. You're going to be tired, You're going to be touched out at the end of the day, and we just want to be able to say that's okay. What would you recommend for people to start with, just starting with maybe just being in connect in old school, straight up East Coast makeout. Maybe maybe like a nice session stuff before making out. Maybe some just like nice touching. Maybe a little dry humping, not too much, not too you know, something small that just

as pleasurable. Dry hump. I'm all about the dry hump. I really think we should bring it back. Oh my god, I haven't talked about a dry hump since probably high school or college. My clients are about it a lot, because again, women need friction, and how many women will say I had my first orgasm through a nice dry hump in high school? Yes, also, can we bring this back, ladies, Let's bring back the dry hump. It's been a minute.

I'm wow. What about this old wives tale You can't have sex during pregnancy because the guy's penis or her strap on or whatever the hell you're using or dildo is too big and it's going to hurt the baby. That is absolutely not true unless he has some abnormally large penis that can Again, I think that is just a myth. It's this is a good thing to know.

If you're fully aroused during sex, your vaginal canal actually elongates from three to four inches to six to eight, so it elongates in order to allow enough room for penetration. So I would say the only issue is if you're not aroused and you're just kind of tying intense, then there may be a chance that your your body's tense, that it could be not only painful lack of lubrication, but maybe it's uncomfortable more than anything. But I think there's just a lot of myth around. You know, the

baby is going to get damage. And I think it's actually really great for women to have sex during pregnancy. Again for the hormonal fluctuations, it's good for your pelvic floor muscles, so there's a lot of benefit. Some women I know are like super horny, right, I mean that was not my experience, but I do have friends that it was their experience, which sounds very exciting. The women who are nine and a half months pregnant who are having sex, I mean, power to them, Like that is incredible,

like incredible. I don't even know what positions you would be in, Like what the hell You've got to be really creative? There's actually sex books all about positions during pregnancy that you recommend. I can give you a list. We're going to put them in Katie's crib notes links guys to the Clitteriest Necklace. Two books about what sexual positions are great during pregnancy. I'm going to read that if I were pregnant again. Okay, UM, tell me about

how partners can help post baby. I know we talked about I days and we talked about the dry humping um, but I do feel I feel kind of bad for the partners. You know, I've never asked him, but I bet he Adam was pretty freaked out too. I mean, he watched me do that, So I've like never asked him, like, are you freaked out to have sex post baby? Like are you? Yeah? Actually, speaking from most partners that I've talked to in therapy, they are scared. You know, I

don't want to hurt you. Am I going to injure you? How should we get back to a place of being sexual? And so I think just have some open conversations about it. It's all about communication. And I know, maybe uncomfortable and vulnerable, but you're both going through the same thing. You want to be able to come together as a team and figure it out. It shouldn't be only on you to figure out how do we kind of get back into

a routine and and maybe set some realistic expectations. Start slow and build up to maybe a full sexual experience, but just start with maybe talking about sex. What do we want our sex life to look like now? What are our needs? What our needs now? Because that's what changes most postpartum is your needs change. Do you find across the board that people with babies just have way less sex? Yes, what are we supposed to do about it? And that's okay? I think sometimes it's okay to take

a sex break. I think our society puts a lot of pressure that we always have to be sexual, and I think all of that is subjective. You can be non sexual and still be a healthy sexual being. So it's not always about frequency. It's about the quality of sex. So you can have one great quality sexual experience and maybe that fills both of your needs for a while. It doesn't have to be about keeping a schedule and we have to do this, or we're the only couple

not having sex every week, every other day. Whatever. It makes dream of a conversation because as you listeners all know, I'm like a super goal oriented type, a list maker, and so when sex sex fucked, oh it's horrible. But when I sit here and I talked to you, I'm also someone who because I'm an actor and artist, I do understand like being in the flow of something and letting go and and and really understanding that that is a rewarding thing. But we have jobs, we're taking on

the world, We're doing all this stuff. And then when someone as to you, well, you don't have a healthy sex life unless you check that thing off three times a week on some fucking list, you know, that is definitely in my head. And so I definitely had a conversation with my girlfriends how many times are you doing it a week? Like? Why is that the conversation? It sucks? I guess you should really be like I had an amazing, like dry hump last night, I got fingered and you

wouldn't believe it was amazing list night exactly. I agree, because you can't really fail at sex. But we have set up these mindsets of either we're doing really well and doing it enough and succeeding, or we're not. So it's this, you know, black and white way of looking at sex, And I think sex is not something we do. If we think of it like that, then it is going to be just another thing to check off the box or you know, something we have to get done.

But I think of it as an experience. Every sexual experience is different, even if you're doing it the same way in the same position. It's kind of like creative work. You know. Our libido is really our life force that has nothing to do with just being sexual. It's what we put towards things that we desire and we're passionate about. So sometimes we do put a lot of it towards our work, or we put it towards our family, But it's just about what excites us, what gets that energy going.

And I think with vacation, like you said, you get excited, you think about it, you fantasize about it, you start thinking about the food you're going to eat, all the pleasures of vacation, and that turns you on. And so that's what we need to do for sex, is think about those things and be really mindful of what that

is for us. How do you give tips to moms about increasing their sex stress, Like do those pills at seven eleven, do not do those pilen being a waitress here in l A and this girl was into those pills. Like this other waitress was like, oh, like my boyfriend's coming into town. Like I'm just stapped by seven eleven. Getting those pills. You will remain nameless, but they don't work right. You know, it'll give you a lot of energy, but you may be a little bit over stimulated. So

it's basically an energy, big energy. It's basically like take drinking three cups of coffee right before you have sex. That would be horrible for me. What a terrible mix would be enery and tremory. Yeah, it's I don't think that would be the most comfortable. But sometimes energy is a big issue, So let's talk about that, because if you are fatigued and you're just completely zapped out at the end of the day, then it's going to be difficult to kind of get in the mood and get

ready for sex. So often I tell people to really change it up if you're always waiting till the last minute at the end of the day. I actually think the end of the day is the worst time to have I am in that capoy. Don't talk to me, even as the sex piss, last thing I want to do is go home and think about having sex with my husband. So it's just about trying new ways to be sexual. Maybe you have a little bit a little quickie here and there in the morning, or just changing

it up. I think we also need novelty in order to keep our desire going. We need to try new things. So we as humans need that, We need variety. We need to have things out of our routine. If we're doing the same thing every time, not good. Yeah, we're

not going to feel motivated. Oh my god. I remember the first time someone said to me because I always had this like there's nothing worse to me than like going out on a date for like a long dinner and then thinking you're going to have sex afterwards because you're like full, like party, like okay. So then someone was like, oh, yeah, like you just get the babysitter to come early and you hook up before dinner and then like you have dinner and you like, no, you

did that, and you're like that's way better. That's what I would recommend. Sex before dinner, sex before the dates, Sex before the date is great. Um, how do you recommend like spicing stuff up. Are you like a big proponent of toys and that sort of situation bringing new thingies into the bedroom. I mean, who doesn't love thingies and toys. I mean, they have so much great technology out there, So especially for our female bodies, there are

devices that are designed for our body parts. And even most sex toys are not gendered, so you can use it on your partner, you can use it on any part of the body. So a vibrator doesn't have to be just something that you're using to alyssa. An orgasm is about finding ways to stimulate and sensually evoke the body. So I'm all about toys, and they get really fancy too.

I mean they have Bluetooth technology. They have these pennyliner vibrators that you can put in and your partner can use an app to put it on while you're at the dinner I mean, or even if he's out of state or traveling. It's they're pretty fascinating. I mean technology, We've come a long way from those ugly, felic, jelly looking scary dildos from the past. Yeah, they were all like bunnies. They were all like the rabbit rabbit, Yes, Um, where do people by ship? You can get stuff online.

There's some great websites to order online. But you know what, I also do find things around the house that could be a sex toy. And I like your toothbrush. There again, I have not tried that, guys, that just came to my mind. So things around the house, maybe you know, a silk tie, something like a massager or a brush or things that can create different stimulation on the body. So it can be just any object that feels good.

Some people like the feeling of leather. You can use oils, you can use just things that are going to create a different experience. So anything can be a sex toy if you think about it. Um, what do we say to couples who don't prioritize sex? I hear a lot which is very scary, as like you do not want to be in a sexless marriage or sexless partnership. Um that that is like the fastest way for trouble, you know, um, for people to look elsewhere for things to not be

connected to fall apart. So I know it's so important to prioritize it, but like, how do you how do you do it? You know, the longer you go without it, the harder it is to get back, kind of like any routine exercise, eating well. And I think you've got to start slow and start somewhere and let go of the expectations. So maybe you're not having mind blowing you know, Hollywood sex. But you know sex is really mess I've had so much Hollywood sex. It's not that great. I'll

tell you right now, it's ridiculous. I think the best sex is the unpredictable, messy, noisy you know, you don't expect it and then it ends up being great. So I think we can prioritize it by remembering that it's good for your health. There's so many health benefits. It's I love it. Tell me it can be a sleep aid. It releases oxytocin in the body, strengthens and tones muscles

in the body. It helps boost our mood because it's releasing natural painkillers in the body, and doorphins are transmitters that help balance our mood. It's good for your skin, so it gives you that nice glow flesh because it's increasing blood flow circulation throughout the body. And this means sex in any way. Again, like there are benefits to it whether you whether it's penetration or not exactly, because you're getting all the feel good chemicals, so it's you know,

no matter what's happening. Orgasm is never the goal of sex. I call it a side effect of sex. It just kind of like a sneeze or reflects. It happens, but it should never be the goal because you can have I mean, our bodies as women were designed to have multiple, multiple orgasms. Males can as well if they train their bodies. But you know, orgasm just kind of happens. Sometimes you have maybe a little one, and other times maybe it kind of rolls and you have this nice one. But

they come in all shapes and sizes. It's never the goal. That was also very scary for me. I've heard also other women besides me, of like losing their orgasm, especially after vaginal labor. But I just remember my orgasm being super weak at the beginning because your muscles are so blown out or I don't know what the wrecked scientific term would be, but let's go with blown out and

near nerves are. You know, the nerves change and I was like, oh my god, I'm never going to get like it was just like wat wat wat wat wa. It wasn't like a you know, like what I used to rock so um, But I can say I have a two year old and it has built back up, but like I was scared. And again I know this is just a goal that that it is should not be the goal to have an orgasm, but I think when you have after childbirth, I think you're like pretty

freaked down. Your example is important because if you've had that trauma, no matter if you had a natural birth or not, all of the nerve endings. We have this huge nerve super highway in our genital area called the pudendal nerve, and it's all multiple layers of nerves. So if you've had any bit of tearing or cutting, then those nerves are not only going to get damaged, but

they kind of rewire. So you may say I used to be touched hair and I could be stroked here and have an orgasm, but now maybe it's a little bit to the right or lower. And so it's kind of important to recondition your body and your orgasm response post baby, because it's changed. The body is is rehabilitating and all of those nerves are reconnecting and maybe they're they're still there, but maybe they're just in a little bit of a different place, So you have to kind

of find what that is. Has it ever been impossible for women to just not ever get it back? Not necessarily. I think it just takes a little bit of patience and consistency. I call it vibrator priming, where I have women use a vibrator and really prime those nerve endings in the genital area, just as you would conditioning any other part of the body. But it gets them to fire and strengthens the response because I think they're there, but they're just maybe a little blips of firing and

we just got to get them rehabilitated. Right. So if you can be patient with your body and get a good vibrator, you are good to go. Thank God. When is it that you recommend sex therapy for an individual or a couple. It could be important for everyone and anyone, because I think if we wait until there's a huge crisis, then it may be there may be so many layers

of what we're working through. When you can come in for questions, I mean I have a lot of couples come in and maybe they just have a few questions what's this, How does this work? What are some things we can do? Sex therapy is a lot more short termed and solution focus than maybe traditional psychotherapy, where you're coming in and processing and kind of leaving feeling worse than when you came in. I would say sex therapy is a lot more focused on figuring things out. So

here's the problem, here's some things to do. Try this. There's a lot of homework. What would be homework, Like what would be an example of homework? Like, people go and you like, tell them to do certain I may have them do some sexual interest inventories to figure out things they like. I do a lot of sensate focus, which is a series of exercises that focuses on non demand touch and getting them to get rid of the goal around sex. And it's a progressive series of exercises

around massage, sensual massage. So it could be something like that. Or I'll have them maybe get out of the bedroom and do things around the house and kind of get that sexual energy going out of the bedroom, get on the bedroom, you know. Dancing is another one, you know, kind of just getting your body moving, because that's really

how we get our libido flowing. If we're just kind of going from stressed day two in the bedroom, now I have to be naked and on and you know, we've got to kind of move our bodies and get ready for sex. So there can be little exercises that can help couples just get in their body embodiment and like, like what no, it sounds amazing, can be really beneficial. Um, how do you empower more women to openly address their

concerns with their partners? Like I feel like couples, especially people who have been together a long time, I don't know why it gets harder to really talk about these things. What do they do? You write it down? I think with couples communication less is more because often we go in with maybe some nerves and vulnerability, and we feel we just kind of put it all out in the open, and it's kind of messy. A partner may say, well,

what's the real issue? What should we be doing? A lot of male partners may go into solution mode, all right, let's fix the problem. So I like the idea of having some maybe bullet points of what you want to discuss. Let's talk about maybe our expectations, what we're looking for, what we want, or let's just have a place to

talk about our frustrations or our needs. So I think less is more in that Let's just have a really direct conversation about it with no expectations, and maybe if we need to figure out a solution for that, we do that. But not having it all in one really long, intense communication. I see couples doing that, and that's too much. It overwhelms, and then it also makes you want to avoid having that conversation again. Do you lead couples in

this sort of work. I do. I would say the base and core of all sex therapy is communication, just learning the tools, learning how to reflect and listen, really understand. We're very reactive. You know, you may hear a partner say I'm just not feeling sexual, and a partner may here,

you don't find me desirable. So there's so many misfirings and misunderstandings when it comes to communication, and we have to work on that to be able to put it all out in the open, because if we can't be vulnerable and honest, then we're really not making any progress and couples stay stuck and maybe they and I'll hear this all the time, we talk about everything. We're great in every area of communication, but when it comes to sex,

we don't know what to do. And I think it's because we don't have the language, we don't know how to talk about it. We put a lot of pressure on it having to be perfect, figuring it all out. And I would say, every single one of us is going to have a sexual issue. It's just so common. So nobody's perfect when it comes to sex. Um, let's

talk about porn. Yes, Um, I'm really interested in this, this whole thing of like women have this feeling, this need to perform or be sexual in a way that people now see a lot which might not be what you look like when you're sexually enjoying yourself. Do you know what I mean? Um? But I'm sure Also, porn could be a wonderful tool for some couples to get turned on. It's a form of entertainment. I think porn isn't the issue. It's how it's used. And there's also

a lot of it. And what I like about it as a tool for sex therapy is it can maybe expose you to different interests or and again, knowing that it's entertainment, it's not real sex. It's like watching anything in the media. It's it's there to evoke a response. So we can use it to maybe help with arousal if you're finding that you can't get in the mood, or it can help evoke fantasy. Fantasy is a huge component of sexual health that people just don't engage in.

And it feels good, like role play, No, just kind of thinking about you know, thinking about what My husband and we're both actors, were like, um, now, like that feels like a job, like we are not. But I'm sure it's really works for other people. But like the idea of like putting on a fucking cause with an accent, I'm just like, what I do this in my Like I get paid to do that, Like that's like does not for me, but I'm sure it completely works for

other women. Can have can think themselves off. So we have this ability to use fantasy to evoke an orgasm. So I think it's a powerful part of our sexual response. That is very true. We don't even have to be touched, So I think permission for fantasy and fantasy could be anything. You know, my fantasy is my husband cleaning the kitchen and coming home and every you know, we call that chore play. I mean, there's so many ways that a

fantasy can help. It doesn't have to be about a sexual act or a position, but more about what are the things that turn you on, the excite you that you can use as material to help your sexual response turn on. Um, So I guess I'm pro porn. I would say pro porn, but there's some really bad porn out there too, so like anything entertainment. UM, what key

advice could you give to struggle moms out there? To remember to love yourself and be patient with yourself no matter what, and that you're not You're not alone, and you are an amazing resilient human being. You know, women don't get enough credit for what they go through in in life, you know, handling things, going through pregnancy, going through childbirth. I mean, it's a really beautiful, creative part of our existence. So I think my tip for for new moms is to just to love yourself no matter

what stage you're at. You know, love your body where it's at and all the changes. I know it's easier said than done, but it's really a practice. I think that's what my body work is too, is it's a practice when you look in the mirror and you constantly are criticizing your body because it used to be this, or our sex life used to be that, and we got to let go of what it used to be because it's never going back there, and we don't really

want it to go back there. I mean, you have the opportunity now to be where you're at and explore and expand. It's really an amazing like you know, taking me, I'm an actor in Holly it out of it. It's an incredible thing to see, like what my body has done over four years, you know what I mean. Where I was before, where my pregnancy was, where I was after,

where my boobs were at. Used to do fittings with Lynn Paulo, who was very amazing costume designer on Scandal, but she I would have four different sized bras in my trailer because if I fed him, I was a bee. If it had been three hours since I breast fed him, I was a double D. Like my boobs were astronomically insane, like superhero ship. Like it was just like crazy, you know what I mean. But like it's amazing because if

you think about that in your sex life. Look, I breastfed for a year, and so sometimes you have sex and I had huge booths, so I would have nothing like it's just very it's a very weird and also amazing thing that you do. And I think, yes, you have to love yourself instead of being I was very hard myself. I think all moms are looking at looking

at bodies postpartum. I love the social media is now put a little light to that, you know, showing women's real bodies instead of these messages of you know, snapping back to a perfect body. But it's it's just about it's just it is. It's those are negative things that if that's an influence in your life in any way, to cut that out and then to find real bodies to look at, and I think even postpartum or not.

I think this is important for body image in general, for women's sexuality, is to see different bodies and normalize that all bodies are beautiful. And I think that's such a big part of our sexuality, as our body image. So we have to feel good about that no matter what stage and age we're at. And I think there's just so much about I always think about sex as like, um, you know, I'm taking care of my marriage. I'm taking care of myself and I'm taking care of my husband.

But I've just been so reminded from this pot and my and my relationship and like my partner who I raised my son with, and I would like everyone to

be happy. That's so such a mom thing too, Like I'm taking care of everyone and I'm fixing everyone, and I take sure everybody feels good, but I think what I forget and I'm sure I'm hoping their other moms out there that feel the same, But I think it's like I have to be like no, like sex is really good for me, and like for taking a break, even if it's fifteen minutes, even if orgasm is not reached, even if penetration doesn't happen, like is really good not

only for everything we've talked about, but it's good for my skin, good for my I'm going to sleep like a baby. You know, oxycot not oxycotton what um, which you also get from breastfeeding, and males also produce more oxytocin postpartum. So yeah, the biology is just fascinating, is amazing, and also how wonderful sex therapy is that it exists and is out there for people to just spend some

time on their sex line. I mean, I was a group Catholic, so I know the whole shame don't touch, don't masturbay, So a lot of my motivation going into this work was to heal the shame. You know, if we can't feel excited about sex, then how are we going to make it a priority in our life? And we need to explore and find the creative ways to be sexual. Because we do that in other areas of our life, why not have a creative sex life as well.

Amazing cheers to that. UM, I just want to say thank you so much Doctor jovi Is for coming on Katie's crib and for gifting us with your time. I have been very, very very excited about this topic and for singing let's talk about sex baby for a long time. UM. In the cribs notes, there will be a link to doctor job as a site, and we'll also link like

books you recommend, um toys, you recommend. Anything. Will be so helpful for all of us moms out there, and I offer complimentary consultations over the phone, So fifteen minutes if you have questions. Oh my god, guys, I'm gonna book mine right now, So I gotta go because Adam and I will be having a fifteen minute console at the very least because this was wonderful and so eye opening, and I really thank you so much for coming. I'm

Katie's Crib. Thanks for having me, Thank you all for tuning into Katie's Crib and for your beautiful messages and reviews. I absolutely love connecting with you and hearing your stories and questions. So email me at Katie's Crib at Shonda land dot com. We may just feature you on an episode, so hit me up. Thanks guys. Katie's Crib is a production of Shonda land Audio in partnership with I Heart Radio.

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