Anxious AF w/ Busy Philipps

it doesn't change when you're a mom. Anxiety can pop up in many ways, and we've talked about postpartum anxiety a little bit on this podcast before, but in this episode, we're going to talk about anxiety and pretty bored broad excuse me terms um. You know that overwhelming feeling that seems to permeate through our lives as parents and in our kids and in the world, which is pretty interesting right now around us. I guess today is the exceptional

Busy Phillips stop it, I love you more. And what's crazy is that we're not recording today in my house in Katie's Crib, which is usually report because Busy Phillips is soups fancy. Now in Busiest Crib. We're in busiest Crib and busy tonight. There's all this amazing busy tonight ship around and I'm obsessed. I can't wait for you to come be a guest on my show. I can't wait that we have to tell people how we met. It'll be the best. I'm not gonna tell. I don't

want to tell about the bad guy. Yeah, I want to show your well. I bet there are different audiences, but still no crossover. You know, I had really horrible postpartum anxiety disorder and I didn't know what it was. And I was with Bertie. I was like, oh, I was the first one of any of us to have kids. You were so young. I was baby, and believe you did that. I know I was twenty I had twenty nine. Did you even know you wanted to be a mom? I didn't. You are a baby whisper, You're a baby piercing,

busy does have like strong baby. I don't know what that is. You just see a baby. You love a baby. I love a baby. I love a baby more than I love a person. Here's the here's the truth. You know what I think I'm gonna do. I think I'm gonna start volunteering holding babies at the Nikeio. You need to do that. I need to do a great energy for that, Like, do you have time? I know you're producing starring in the first female to have a late night talk show. That's four nights. Leak you guys. It's

just a little bit of it. I'm not the first one, but I'm the only one right now. You're the only one doing. I'm the only one right now, but I'm not the first one. But um, it is a big deal. Okay, So here's here's what happened to me when I had Bertie. I was twenty Yeah, I had just hern twenty nine. Um, we hastily decided to get to try to have a baby. Um. The conversation was, the writer's strike was about to happen

in Los Angeles. This was in two thousand and seven. Um, the writer strike was about to happen in Los Angeles. I was not working on a television show. You were a writer. I was married to a writer, and we knew we would have extra time on our hands, and that he wouldn't be working, and that I wouldn't be able, like there wouldn't be a pilot season really, and so

it seems like, why don't we try? And I remember the conversation with Mark and he was like, well, I'm thirty six and I've never accidentally gotten someone pregnant before. I don't even know how long it would take or whatever. And I was pregnant the next month. Still worked well, it worked well, worked real well. Yeah, I got pregnant on Thanksgiving. I know, like the day I got pregnant. Is that so weird? After the Thanksgiving me? Yeah, we

did it. I'm impressed because that's probably the last fucking thing on this earth I would want to do after eating Thanksgiving is have sex. I teg, well, yeah, I mean I get that, but also you were twenty eight and it was different. Different things are different. I uh, I am. I write about it in my book. I and one of the people I felt implantation. I woke up in the middle of them and it's so crazy.

I woke up in the middle of the night and it felt like a lightning bolt in my gut and I like took a huge breath and Mark was like, are you okay? And I was like, I just got pregnant. Did you feel like a cricket? Now? I wasn't paying it. Burtie of it all. She is truly a lightning bolt.

She really, really truly is so anyway, So then after she was born, I was a mess, like um, all of these things, Like I had had anxiety when I was a kid, and I didn't really right, I didn't ever have it diagnosed when I was a kid, racing thoughts, unable to sleep, laying in bed, paralyzed by fear, like all these kinds of things, and I didn't know your parents never taken to a therapist. I went to it. I went to a therapist. I just that was never

part of the diagnosis. It's so weird. You have images in memories from your childhood of just fear, crippling, yes, crippling fear. I would go through, like systematically, go through every person who was close to me and imagining like how they could die. You know, I just wouldn't, dude, I have that now. I'm in therapy right now for anxiety because I don't know what happened. But ever since I had a baby, I'm just everyone's going to die all the time. Yeah, I mean that's the truth, truth.

But I'm so aware of this, sickly. Yeah, I have like a crazy thing too. And you hear stories and you know, you whatever, and the internet like all of these things right, like like are compounding our feelings of this anxiety. But I do I have moments of like where I get lightheaded sometimes, Like just we were parked in front of a restaurant and Beverly and Mark was taking our little one cricket who's five, out of the car on the driver's side, so like on the street side,

and just like a huge chuck pass. She was fine, he was fine, But like I had that like I saw the whole thing like do you know what I mean and saw your life lash before you're totally they were fine, Like they didn't they didn't clock it at all. Um. But yeah, So I have always had those kinds of things. And after Bertie was born, it was just first of all, I was, um, I felt very alone in my baby rearing. You didn't have many friends that were probably in the

same time. I didn't have many friends who had babies. Uh, my friend Michelle had had a baby a few years earlier, but she lived in New York. Um, I felt very much alone here friend wise. But then also like I

felt very alone in my marriage. And he was really confused about how to be participatory and so he kind of just like pieced out, which is very common and um, and anytime I hear anyone who's like getting divorced and they have a kid that's under the age of three, I'm like, yeah, well okay, you could put you can push through it. A lot of times, let's wait a couple of years. I always hear that, like, don't even

entertain that. I always hear that, but it's true that, like let's not even talk about divorce until they're in school. Like I've heard this because it's like the first years are so fucking hard and the identity crises that the that both parents whatever they are go through is like really fucking challenges, and your relationship is so on the back burner. Even these fucking assholes who were like doing date nights and all this ship, which I'm just like,

in what world we like who are you? And like what are you talking about? Like my marriage and like tomorrow mine's Valentine's Day. Haven't even thought about it? Yeah, oh yeah, well Valentine's Day is not real. But also it gets really cute, Like I'm super excited for Valentine's Day because I have a five year old and a

ten year old and like we made um. I ordered these little um plastic heart containers online and then we made slime over the weekend, like pink and red slime, and so like they're Valentine's to all their friends at school, are like these little heart containers of slime. It's so cute. Little bags of glitter. Was really fun. Don't you have to go and get help? Like after you had Bertie

or what did you struggle with your your Really? I had anxiety lie door Mint since you were a kid, and then it sprung out again after you were no and I had I had different manifestations of my stress and anxiety. For instance, like when I was on Dawson's Creek, I developed ibs and spastic colon and that it's a classic. It's a classic. Anyone who works in Hollywood. Everyone I

know who works in Hollywood has ibs and spastic. It's but that like developed when I was like twenty years old, brutal, brutal um and did you go to a doctor that and someone was like, this is stress, this is caused by I did I did? Because I was like shipping blood at one point lovely, so fun, so fun, and then so I was like, oh I'm dying obviously at age twenty four, and the got a colonoscope and they're like, an I dyeing? You got a colonoscopy at because what

they were like, what is happening? Yeah, they wanted to find out, so they did a colon I did all the tests and then they did a colonoscopy and like IBS is basically like there's it means nothing kind of it just me. I have to work on diet and stress. It's really for me, it's just stress. And the only two times I've really been in remission with my IBS and I haven't felt any symptoms are the two times

I've been pregnant, like my whole pregnancy. Both times pregnancy can really cure some people, Like I know people who have literally been lactose intolerant their entire fucking life. Like they eat a pizza cheese and they're running to the toilet and they were pregnant and they couldn't eat enough cheese and ice cream and fucking dairy and like they were fine, Like you're still I don't know what that is. I don't either. So you had anxiety after Bertie was born,

carry alone and marrigin and your friends. But then I had like, but I had like, I have a few things that I specifically remember a few instances of panic attacks. But I specifically remember I didn't like the idea of somebody else like holding her taking care of her. I felt like I was the only one that could do

it correctly. Hard. It was so hard. Um. I remember the first time I left like I had like, I went back to work when now he was eight weeks old, and I remember having to call in like a night nurse last minute to like Adam was also working and all this stuff, and I screaming, crying, calling my mom. I think it's hard also when your family doesn't live here and you have a newborn baby. But I was like obsessed with the idea that this person was going

to shake my baby to death. Like it was an idea that I got in my head that she that he was not sleeping to the night and she was going to be super fucking tired and frustrated and angry with him, and she was going to fucking shake I was convinced I just didn't trust people. So I had a similar experience with anxiety like that. But we had had a Mark had hired like a woman that was like a baby nurse to come in and help me, and I hated her intensely and like, get out of

mama bear. I'm doing this myself. Yes, And I've had other friends who like my with my set with cricket. We I had to go back to shooting cougar Town five weeks after she was born. So I had this shady nurse hired that came recommended from my friend and I had met her a bunch of times, and so I really knew that I was going to like her. And I loved her so intensely, and I recommended her to a friend of mine with her first kid, and

she had like I hated her, I needed her house. Yeah, And I think that that is especially with your first child. I think that, um, it is a thing that you can't it's biologic survival. It is like when your second kid comes along and you're like, well, we got one, right, so we're good, Like there're a little bit we're relaxed because dude, just because like there's something in your hippocampus or whatever, like something in your brain that's like you already have one kid, so it'll be fine if you

lose this one. I'm not kidding. More, very deep, deep level that you are unable to access. There has to be something that happens when you have multiple children, because with Cricket, I mean I did do preventatively. I did the placenti pills, which were supposed to help with like postpartum and postpartum anxiety. So I did do that with Cricket, and I had that baby nurse. But I was just like a different mom. I was just chill, like I

just didn't those fears. No, I didn't, And I just was like, I mean I remember like pulling over with Bertie when she was a baby, sobbing hysterically. I'm gonna start crying, even though it's been like literally ten years, um, sobbing hysterically on the side of the road, like thinking like what fucking right did I have to have a child, Like I can't take care of this person, Like I can't even I couldn't even like figure out the baby born at the grocery store so that I could go

grocery shopping with her. I had no help, And I was just like I can't. Why did I do? Why did I going to do a good job? Why did I think I could do this. Yeah. Um, it was really really like unable to drive. A few times I would get really overwhelmed with fear about driving and I would have to pull over and like either all Mark or call Michelle or like call my mom and just I wouldn't tell my mom what's happening. I would just

be like, Hey, what's going on? What's happening? Attacks? Yeah, and I was just trying to like my God, for anyone listening who's ever had a panic attack, I'm so sorry. And if you haven't had one, there it's like I've had them before and had to see someone about them, but they're the worst. It's like you're you're convinced you're having a heart attack. I'm going to die, like your heart. You can't breathe it all, you can't catch your breath.

You immediately go to visions of death. I've had panic attacks where I've lost like sight and feeling in the mask of my face sucking horrible. Yeah, what's keeping up at night these days? Busy? Everything? No well mom? And the status of your of the world. Yeah, I mean it's so interesting, Like manage anxiety now, I manage it

now with um high CBD low thhc UM. I had prescriptions for adam On and xan X for years, and I would always hate to take it because I had one small child and then two small children, and I felt like, well, that's a stupid thing to be knocked out on anyone who's taken out of anorthantics nose. It will put an end to your panic attack. But also

like for me, it leaves me incapacitated like mother. No, I couldn't would like in my bed watching friends like for you know, the rest of the definitely, and I'm not driving my kids anywhere, and so it would make me very nervous to take it, and I would you know, I'm just one of those people like I'll power through, power through this panic attack, like I'll just muscle where, I'll muscle my way like you know. Um. But then a couple of years ago, somebody suggested I should that

I try the highest CBD low tach c gummies. They were gummies for what I send you some. I have not tried those yet, but what I just tried on like sore muscles is the CBD like rolling oils. That stuff is incredible. Did you get Lord Jones? Did they send that to it's has a mOsm or something. It's incredible. Well,

so the gummies have helped. The gummies helped immensely, and especially like a lot of times, I think people you get a lot of those spinning thoughts and the you know, it's like a little whirlpool um at night or you know when you're laying down and you can't turn your brain off. And I do find that that will help me to just like be able to go to sleep, and then I don't feel there's no hangover, there's nothing from it. There's no drug hangover or anything that you

just shut you need to try that. It's amazing. It's like truly changed my life. Are you in therapy now? Yeah? But off? Yeah, because I'm scheduling is a nightmare right now. So but like you're it's there if you need it, like you've been in and out, like you've had a healthy relationship with therapy for for many many years. And she and my therapist was really helpful with all of my Bertie stuff and anxiety and my kids stuff. And you know, Bertie is at an age now, my god,

tell me about this. You have older kids and I'm scared. Tell me what Bertie, Like, do you see visions of your own self in Bertie? Like does yeah? And I mean they manifest their anxiety in different ways. Um, Bertie has like a deep rage, um that I also had when I was a kid. Um that my sister definitely had when we were kids. And I recognize it. Um, she's got a deep, deep rage in her and um, that's scary. Uh. And then a couple of years ago in school, she just started having like in second halfway

through second grade, she started having like real anxiety. I got into him. I got trolled by the right wing for a for a tweet a couple of years ago that I posted which is true, which was true, which was that Bernie was like sobbing hysterically in her bed and I asked her what was She like, wouldn't tell us what was happening. And then finally we got it out of her and she said, like, I'm afraid I'm going to be killed by a gun um and such

goose bumps right now is gonna make me collect? I mean she was seven, Yeah, she was like seven, and people like just made fun of me. They're like, oh, you fucking made it up, you stupid, Like left wing. I didn't like sid. I remember you coming busy as an incredible singer also, and she comes and lovingly also gives her time to my theater company and would sing for audiences for money. Thank you very much for doing that.

I remember you coming once and you had said you were crying, and you said, um, I'm just kind of freaking out right now because I just picked saw my kids from school or you picked them up in there or something, and they had had a like a drill. Yeah, they shoot her in school, and drills are like yeah, lockdown.

Drills are like they're all doing um And I guess it's similar to it was your first one or something when you were like, I can't even believe my kids are fucking going, Like, how are you supposed to have conversations with your kids that this is a reality that they're going to go to school and have a drill of where to fucking hide. I know, it freaks me, And now I feel like Bertie is so aware of

the world. It is more upsetting to me now for Cricket, like because she's five and they're just you know, they'll be I don't know if they've done one yet at her school. They normally send us an email when they do them. Um, but did you see that? What do they do? What's the drill? I think that they go to like the back corners of the classrooms, so they go to the bathrooms and they hide. Do you remember

doing like the hurricane stuff? And we were I mean when we were up in Arizona, So I didn't do her? What didn't you have? Nothing? Nothing like like East Coast. They would teach us to go into our desks, put our head between our legs and our hands over our head in case there was bad you know her dad

or whatever. Yeah, I mean, in a way, kids are so resilient and they have they find a way to both like have a lot of a great deal of logic about things and be able to see things in a in a very practical way and in a way that like I don't think I think adults have a harder time doing. Does that make sense? Like? Um, but I did just see that thing that went viral yesterday,

the woman that posted there. They had a real lockdown at her kids elementary school because of a bomb threat that was called in and the seven year old when she was getting ready for her bath. Oh my God, I'm gonna start crying, had written on her arm like love mom and Dad, because she just wanted to know, like if she had been found dead, but her parents would know that she was thinking of that. I mean, Fuck, it's so stupid. It's so dumb. It's so dumb that

this is the world. I mean, I remember I was

in college when Columbine happened. So I was a fresh er sophomore in college when Columbine bend, and I remember like like going back to my dorm room and watching it and being like because you know, the news was so different then, and so it was like sort of role the information was rolling in slowly, and I remember thinking like, this won't be bad, like this is just like some kids pulling a prank, Like it'll be fine, and then you know it literally since then has only

gotten exponentially scarier and scarier. Part of the reason, like I I'm very serious about the all girls education for my girls is like because I feel like it in some way, like in my brain, I feel like maybe the chances of them having a school shooting in an all girls school is lower, I swear to God, like that's like I've never thought about that but that is

really smart and a good point. I mean, what did you say to Bertie that night when she was like, I'm scared of getting Like how do you talk to your kids about this ship? Like even though she's logical

and kids are like, what do you say? Like, I mean you comfort them, right, And we tell her that, you know, we do the best that we can to make sure she's the safest that she can be, and that but that her fears are valid and that she has a right to be scared of those things because of the things that she hears in the world that we live in, Like I don't want your guy to keep sting like the news was on in my child

every day and you can't do that. You can't do that, like and we and we noticed because it's also really brutal. We noticed that there were grandparents visiting and like grandparents still love to watch the news, right, and and uh, this was like when there was like a threat of nuclear there was like a North Korean threat like a year and a half ago something like that, and Bertie was so like she was like, California is getting hit, Like that's what they're saying. We're gonna there's gonna be

a nuclear bomb in California is gonna get hit. And I mean I walked through the things with her, and I was like, let's call your other grandfather because he's a nuclear engineer, and I'm going to have him explained to you. Yeah, I mean that was convenient, right, he's retired, but like, but I was like, I'm gonna have him explained to you, like what the reality of it is and how this is probably just like a scare tactic.

And I tried to just give her all of the facts, Like I'm not a parent, I'm very non judgmental to anyone else's thing that they wanted to have their kids, unless you're an anti vaxer, and then you can go fuck yourself. But um sorry, I'm not sorry. Um but I try to give Bertie like as much information as I think is appropriate for her to handle at her age. But you're lying to her. That's what you're not into. You're not into like it's all going to be fun.

I don't think that I do her any like when she was crying about being afraid of being killed by

a gun. I don't think I would do her a service as a parent to be like well, that's never gonna happen, because like I don't fucking know, like you know what I mean, Maybe I'm wrong, but I just want to I want to tell her, like I want to empower her with enough knowledge and also assure her that we are doing everything that we can to keep her safe and that she should do be proactive and keeping herself safe because that's also like part of the deal,

Like you gotta be proactive and keeping yourself safe and being aware. How do you deal? So does she other than that night and being having rage stuff? Does she also struggle with anxiety? Either of your kids? And yeah, she gets we see it, like we have to pay close attention to when they're like big things coming up for her like um and sometimes Mark, Mark and I are getting better and better at it ten years in

nice getting good. That gives me hope because like, oh God, like we for a long time, her birthday really gives her a lot of anxiety, like it stresses her out and for a long time. But like inviting the friends, just like the whole thing, like all of it is just anxiety creating for her party causes her anxiety, feeling like she doesn't want people to feel left out. She doesn't. She just genuinely it's like the week before her birthday. Every year since she was like three years old, she's

been a nightmare. It's like a week. It's like a week of just like like temper tantrums, bad attitude, everything's wrong. And it wasn't until like two years ago, two years ago, maybe three years ago that Mark and I are like, oh, it's her birthday. Her birthday stresses her out, and we met, we need to like try to how per so what's the because it says I was like, you know, I also sometimes go into like my parents are great and

weird and complicated in their own thing. But occasionally I will slip into like my mom's like nineteen fifties, like you spoil, you're spoiled. I'm canceling your birthday parties like I get, you know, like I catch myself doing this cool your jets, like I said, I said cool your jets once and I was like, okay, well now it's happened. Now it's happened, Coolie fully cool your jets to Bertie and she's like, what does that even mean? Like I don't know something my mom used to say, um so yeah.

So now we try to mitigate her stress leading up to her birthday and try to like really like for me, I know that the thing that works best with anxiety is giving voice to the anxiety. Like I was having bad anxiety when I was pregnant with Cricket that I was going to have a stillborn baby and so, but I was afraid to even talk about it in therapy because it would become true, right, and so I just held it in for weeks and weeks and then like

was just spinning out in the craziest way. And then finally I screamed at Mark like, you don't know how it is I'm carrying a dead baby. And he's like, oh no, oh no, what what happened? What's happening? How long has this been going on? And I'm like, I like four weeks, I don't know. And he's like it's okay, like you know so and then once I came out with it, blurted it out. I feel great. Yeah. I was like, oh, now that I hear it, certainly that's not true. It was at the doctor two weeks ago,

like everything, I could feel the baby, everything's fine. Um. But so from knowing that about myself. We try to be very communicative with Bertie and Anne Cricket, but really with birds because she's the one that sort of tends to have more of this of the anxiety and stress and stuff. Um. But we're also really lucky because we have a girl that's highly verbal and always has been. She's amazing and I've seen her in her Yata performances.

She's amazing. She's so her, she's so Oh, that's so funny that you say that, Katie, You've always like known Bertie. I said to Mark the other day, I've never met anyone more themselves than Birdie. Bertie is so Bertie, like it's crazy, Like she's just so um, it's incredible, Like she's she she's a woman of her like she knows what she wants, her opinions, she stands behind them like it's it's amazing. Like she's so and she's always been

like since she was a little kid. And Cricket is not like that, like Crickets like I mean, Crickets very strong and amazing, but Cricket is like she's she's so like I feel like she's very like jovial and like like an angel, and she's truly, like a like a spirit that I feel like is just visiting me, and I'm like so lucky to be allowed to be around her. She's five years old, but she still has such magical thinking sometimes, like she says things to be a market.

We're just like, what, why are you talking about? Where did you get that from? How does she deal with Bertie's rage stuff? Like does that? Well, that's been tough and that's something that we're working on as a family. And we're going to go back to charts. Charts, chart charts, tell me what behavioral chart we're going. We're gonna go back to that um but we're but only in a positive way because Brite is very smart obviously, but she also but also like I need to take the negative

all all across the board, Like negative talks. So instead of like, don't be rude, it's bad at use your kind voice, you know, use your quiet use your quiet void. These are some of the things that will be on the chart. Use your kind voice, use your quiet voice. And instead of when she starts getting into one of her things saying like what's wrong with you? I almost feel which is older than she is, Like I feel like she's going through like teenage stuff now and how

old she's ten. But remember fourth and fifth grade as a girl. I remember what that felt like a drama, and that was the hardest year for me with fifth grade. Fifth grade was no joke. It was no joke. So that's what she's experiencing right now. It's almost like the pre hormone surge is worse than when they really get

there they go through puberty at their period. So she so I'm trying to and it's for me too, because I think I feel like a failure so many days of the week with my kids where I feel like I didn't remember to use a positive way of talking to her when she was giving me attitude or refusing to do her homework. I want to say, like, wrong with you? And I know you're not supposed to say what's wrong with you because then they start thinking that

something's wrong with them. But I know sometimes I'm like, what is wrong with you? I don't think it's necessarily I mean, I read a lot of books on this stuff, and I feel like we're so like being in l A and being you know, busy and Katie, I feel like we're very good, you know, we're going to make such an effort to make sure everything is so love filled and stuff. But sometimes I think in this stuff I read, we overdo it and like sometimes we have to just be like it's not cool. Not cool, dude,

we're not being great. Yeah, we definitely knew that, but I'm gonna go back. She I know, just obviously know her so well. Um, she responds only to positive reinforcement. She is like, there is nothing Bertie is so strong willed. There is nothing in the world you could take away from her or punish her with that she would care about in that moment. Like if she if she was like angry about something or like fixated on something, I could be like, I'm taking away every thing in your room.

You'll have a mattress on the floor and she'll be like, great, look forward to it. That is oh yeah, but then you know that no, huh was Mark like that? Yeah? That's Mark. Yeah. See, I think my son is Adam. I wasn't like that either. My son's very like wants what he wants when he wants it, and I'm not like that at all. And we we tried when she was a little like you get what you get, and you don't get upset the monastory thing. And she was like, but I'm going to get upset and here we are.

How do you tell the difference between this for me? Like what would be like normal kid anxiety or normal kid rage? And and I hate you to use that word, but like versus okay, Like it's time to like see a therap side help. We have outside help and we've got how do you know how a therapist for UM her for a little over a year now because it was untenable in our home. It was like really and I felt over whelmed and like I wasn't capable of

dealing with it and I didn't know. And I want to give and I am able to provide these resources, and I like and I know that I suffered from anxiety that I didn't get help for when I was a kid, and I wish I had because maybe I would have developed some self soothing mechanisms and some ways to handle these things UM earlier in life, you know, and it could have benefited me. Might not have had ibs. We don't know. Maybe I wouldn't have become an actor, is right? So what does she does she like it?

Does she like going is she like and I don't want to go. No, she likes it. No, she looks forward to it. She likes it. Um, but a lot, a lot, a lot of her friends also see people. I just got a text from my mom literally five minutes ago looking for someone for her ten year old. Um. There's just a lot going on in the world and it's a lot for them to process. And I think for kids that are aware, um and are paying attention. And like you said, Bertie, it does seem so much

older than her ten years. It's wild. She seems like a fourteen year old. I mean, I know I only said because I've babies, had a lot of kids, but I really feel that way. When are you gonna do shave a phone? When when am I allowing how the to do that? Well, I don't know the rule. I mean, like this is scaring the ship out of it. Yeah, I mean, I know you're super open and cool too.

You know, they're on your social media and I think that's but I but you know, I have but like you know, I have, like I have my own roles about that. You have your own rules with what you allow to be on about them? Well, like what you post, Well, first of all, they both have approval always, like I ask permission before I ever post any photo of either

of them. I say, Cricket, her understanding of it is obviously way less, but I still obviously ask her that I show her the picture, and I say, I'm going to post this on my social media, so lots of people are going to see it, like people that I'm friends with, and then people that I'm not friends with in real life but like they like looking at my pictures? Is this okay for me to post? And she's like, yeah, um, Bertie, major joy to my life, Bertie. Bertie has not only

photo approval, Bertie has caption approval as well. Because one trend that I don't particularly love, although again I try to be not judging, is like a snarky a snarky like comment that's meant to be funny about like how much of an asshole your kids are? Like I, you know, and I've seen that, like with people who like choose to not show their children's faces on social media, but then are like, but my kids a fucking dick, And it's like, well, okay, what are we doing? You know

what I mean, what are we doing? What are we doing? Why are we doing this? And like, I know we can all agree that, like there are frustrating moments in parenting and things are tough, and like I've posted like Bertie giving me an attitude face before, which she's like approved me. She's all about it, She's like, yeah, post my attitude. So but do you know what I mean? So, Like, so that's one of the rules. Um, if I'm ever doing like a paid post for Instagram and they're involved

in it, I pay them. They have an account, that's fucking amazing. Well they're working, I mean they're working. Yeah, it doesn't seem right. I mean, like you know that's so we so we have they have separate account obviously, they have like separate bank accounts. And then we pull like a percentage. What well, it's like I think I just give them ten percent of what I make on the post. When is Bertie and Cricket when are they allowed to have their own social media accounts? Like when

does that happen? Bertie has a private one, like a deep private one that I that we monitor closely, because part of what I felt like was important was that I'm not again like I feel like knowledge is hour and so I want to give her, like all of the tools and help her and in making good decisions about what how to communicate on social media and what

to communicate on social media. And that's part of the reason too, why, Like very early on, I um included them in the process of you know, approving the pictures and the captain explaining to them what the captions mean or whatever. You know. Um so I feel like you have such a good relationship all stuff, and it doesn't cause you much stress or anxiety, Like I don't. You're pretty good with this. I don't have stress about it.

Like I got a little bit. I got really upset a few weeks ago because I did post a photo of Bertie and there were a bunch of people like commenting about her, ears like about her, and I started and I got like and I that I got panicky and like I got I delete anything for my social media. I've never deleted anything, and I have like a thing about it. But because you feel like it should be up there, like that's why, Because I feel like if I make the decision to put it up there, then

I'm going to leave it up. It's not it's something that I've thought about. Do you ever delete comments. Yeah, I delete, like the really crazy I block and delete people. Yeah yeah, yeah, no, but I don't delete like my own personal plan. Do you make the decision to post, then I've made that choice to deal, right right, that's great. What's a good rule to have? You need to like write this book. I love your book and also the book of how to live with social media in a

way that works for you. Because I think, I mean, I haven't posted pictures of valb me not because I don't want to. I'm just completely anxious written whatever the word with the decision. I can't decide. So therefore I'm just like I don't know, I don't know, no know,

today's today. I don't know. I can't decide. Like Adam and I are like it's almost become too big of a thing now, releas and cons of like yeah yeah, and I think that, like, um, because I want to hear how crazy I am, though truly I don't know,

Like this is how crazy I am. I sort of like I'm like terrified of my kids getting kidnapped always, and I feel like because they're so recognizable, they have they have less of a chance of getting kidnapped That's how I've like justified a lot of it in my brain and like because at one point I was like, well, maybe they're too recognizable, and then like blah blah blah, and then I was like, no, no, it's the opposite.

I don't know, you're going the opposite people Like what if you pose a picture of your kid and then people think you're really rich and their famous and they take you from their school for ransom. Yeah. The other

point is I think the kidnapping. I mean again, I read a lot of books on this ship, but like since we came about in the age of like kids being on milk curtains, the actual statistics of kids being kidnapped is like, especially with strangers, the kids are kidnapped one of the parents and it's ugly it is, but actual strangers coming to take your child. It's very how

you're younger than you, Yeah, you're younger than me. I'm thirty nine, but like, yeah, for me growing up, the two things that were the biggest fears were kidnappings and then AIDS because we came of like age harding. Yeah, like Ryan White Also, by the way, you heard that like the AIDS epidemic is up again because they've stopped

teaching AIDS awareness in school because it was condoms. We were drilled into me and you like business, I mean gross, they were drilled into us like serious as very serious and you have sex out econom you're getting as well. They really have pulled back on that and it's about AIDS. I just like had to car to your kids about sex. Yet Oh yeah, I need to talk to me what I'm doing. I'm scared. First of all, I know for girls. I don't know about alb I don't know what we're

doing with him, but I do know it. I mean, I'm completely horrified. Like I watched the watch No, I mean yes, and no, I was a girl there who was crying and she said, I have something really dark to say, but like, I this is so fucked up. But she was like I was at a frat party and I was there was wine, there was something put in my wine, and I woke up the next morning and I was raped by multiple men and they took

photos and I was sexually assaulted. And it was actually like an incredible moment for the batchler to have to be honest because it was like not edited and not with too music and there weren't roses involved. It was actually like and I was so fucking upset to have a son, Like I was like, Adam, who the funk are these guys? What the funk is wrong with these people?

Like now that I'm raising a son in this day and age, it's like, I'm so worried about his penis, like and the choices he will make, and how I will raise a son to treat women like I want him Adams, like Albie will be horrified at all times. He's just gonna be scared women. I'm like, great, I just wanted to be scared of, Like, I mean, it's just two Who are these people? But anyway, you're raising girls, I'm raising boys. How do you talk to them about sex?

If you have yet? Um? Well not the five year old Bertie asked me a year and a half ago. She said, I have a question for you. Something doesn't make sense to me. If I have half of your DNA and half of Dad's DNA, but you grew me inside your uterus, how did half of Dad's DNA get in me? And I was like, well, if we're gonna be scientific about it, And I was convinced that somebody had told her at school, and she was like testing me.

The thing that Michelle had told me and that I had read in another book is that like you kind of want to be as like chill about it as possible and not make it like the talk. And so we were just in the car on the way to school and I was like, oh, well, that's because there's this thing called sex that you do when you want a baby. That's how you get a baby. Great actress, because that just sounds really believable, throw away, you know,

it seems really And she's like, what is sex? And I was like, okay, wow, so you know how boys have penises and girls have vaginas. And I just explained it to her like very plain, and she was laughing hysterically thought it was like the funniest thing on earth. We like, later that afternoon, got home, like got into the driveway at the same time as Mark, and she got out of the car and she's like, Mom, tell dad what you told me about so bert so Bertie.

And I was like, I told Bertie about sex and about how babies are made, how she has why she has half of my d your DNA and my d N A by the way, obviously Mark already knew because I called him like hysterical after I like put her on the bus and and he's like, oh, yeah, yeah, buddy, would you think about that? She's like it's grows And I was like, cool, I think you're such a great mom. You really are. I don't know, I feel like I

was feeling. I like had to pay. I had a panic attack at the Busy Tonight offices because I couldn't figure out cookie selling for Girl Scouts And I was like, what, I don't understand it, and the moms, all the other moms, no, and I don't know, and how do you get a thing? And my sister, who's a producer on the show, was like, Okay, I'll walk you through the website. It's not a big deal. It's just a website. It doesn't mean anything about you as a fair How did they feel about you working

crazy hours? Are they used to it because you always have been? No? Because I haven't been, and especially for like about three years between Cougar Town. Yeah, well I did Vice Principles, but it was so so the schedule was so chill. Are they cool with coming with you when you like travel for shooting. Um, well, I don't travel like by rule really for that much stuff. Vice Principles was a special case because Danny McBride had said, we're going to shoot it over the summer, so they're

out of school. So they're out of school. Anyway, in Charleston, we had like the best time ever delicious, So they don't even really think of that as that I was on a TV show then, like I was, yeah, yeah, yeah, they didn't. They didn't notice. Do you have any sort of rules like I don't go more than three nights? I'll putting into bed if you're here? Like are they good with being put to bed with someone else? Like how do you deal with all that? Yeah, well I'm

lucky here. I only miss one bedtime a week. I mean dreams. It's a dreams, um. And that's because you probably made your own schedule, yes, and then beyond that, um, you know, in the last several years, like since Cougar Trying to ended, I had been offered a bunch of different projects that didn't shoot in Los Angeles, and you know, to be fair, none of them were you know, Shonda

Rhymes or um like starring Meryl Street. So it was like easier for me to say now, um, but it's just not it's not something that I'm able to do. I turned down like a part. I was offered a part in a really big movie and I turned it down because I would miss crickets third birthday a few years ago, and I was just like, it's just not fucking worth it ultimately, and like find that movie was huge and fine, but like it doesn't have the priority shift. It is a really I mean, I didn't believe it

before I got pregnant. I was always like, yeah, yeah, yeah, like moms, you know, the baby becomes you know, the top priority all these things, and it's not going to be that way for me. Like and now that I'm on the other side, it really just is. Well it is.

But it's also like if you're able to, if you have you know, it's a privilege that I'm able, you know what the best way and the want the I mean, the priority shift is like in in no way shape form the bat It's like like I did Broadway and it almost I started counting down and show eight nine, not because it wasn't a great experience, but because only putting my kid to bed one night week sucked and

I hated it. And that's the most I mean to me, bedtime is the most special thing, and like that was the thing that always when I was working on Cougar Town. The hours were crazy, Like I felt so lucky when I would get to go put Bertie to bed or you know. And then when Cricket was born and I went back to work immediately, I was so lucky that I was able to afford that baby nurse who just like came to work with me in the baby and I made my dressing room and nursery and every you

know break I had. I was like upstairs with this newborn, falling in love with her, her little weird, magical elfself. She's just wild, She's so wild. Busy Phillips, Yes, what a great name, Busy Pips of busy tonight. What do you have any advice for parents who might be struggling with anxiety themselves because of the world around them, or with kids that are struggling with anxiety. Yeah, I think like to not to. I think that destigmatizing all of this stuff is the where we're where we're at now,

like culturally, and I think it's so important. It's why I talked about on social media. It's why I think like podcasts like this are all important. Um and I think that you have to understand that, um, there's nothing wrong with you and be willing to reach out and get help. And if and if you know, budgetary constraints are a concern, it's like we're not budgeted to find our kids a therapist. There are plenty of resources for parents both you know you can get. There are lots

of books. People love books, You love books, love books. There's also like a lot. I remember when I first moved l A and I was so fucking broken. I was so um depressed and like not well and I really needed a therapist. But I found one who was like, you know, not an assistance assistant. She was a therapist, but she had just graduated and she was looking for her hours, yes, and she was sliding scale. So I could only give her. I could only give her twenty

five dollars. And I gotta say, I've been with her now for ten years, and every job I get, I've gone up and now I'm matter of fee. We came up together. But like when I started, I was like, I have but I need I need help. I know I can't do this by myself, and my friends are sick of there me and they can't hear it either.

And I really feel like my life is swelling apart and I'm not going to be able to Like honestly, I truly don't think I would have had success in as an actor or been able to find Adam without my therapist at all. I mean, I think it's just

an important thing for people. My sister and I talked about it because she lived in Arizona for a early long time and she was like, people busy people in Arizona don't talk about about like this kind of thing, like mental people don't talk about mental illness, and like, well, maybe we all need to start talking about mental illness. And the thing is with your kids too, Like here's the way we talked about it with Bertie, Like, dude, we take you to the dentist, you go to the orthodontist,

you go to your pediatrician, you get your shots. You're going to this doctor because the same thing. It's just for your brain, and your brain needs to be tuned up to like just like your teeth need to be white and clean and no cavities, like we need to get the cavities out of your brain, and like if it's preventing you from doing your best at school, doing your best with your friends, doing your best at home with us, like what, there's nothing weird about that, Like

people are That's what this guy's job is. He's there to help us. And I'm so grateful for him. And so I think, like, if you have a kid, if you see, especially when your kids get older, like don't wait. The other thing is schools. I know, I know that school systems go through different things, and so your your school system might not have the resources available to you, but teachers by and large do want to help, and like reaching out and being communicative with teachers is a

game changer. And it was something that weirdly, I was afraid to do because like tell these you're like, we're struggling with this plan. It's because our representative. We're like we don't want to show. It's always lately in us as mom that like nothing's wrong, don't look over here. We're perfect, Like it's perfect, I'm perfect. We're all good.

But also I had a thing just from my own childhood and my own life where I felt like um like almost like afraid to talk to the teachers and administrators. I didn't want to get in trouble my own kids school. But now I've realized, like we especially this year, like being communicative with the teachers and the administrators and the school therapists and the people who are there and are you know, they want your kid to succeed to that's

their this is their job. It's literally their business, you know. And um, they didn't get into it because they're like bad people children got They got into it because they want to They want to help kids, and they want to help kids, um, you know, become the best versions of themselves. And so like to really as a parent know that you can find resources within your child school as well. It's a great call to because there's always and also like taught to your kids to like there's

always like a teacher that a kid really connects to. Always, like whether it's like like right now, my daughter is having like just a total love affair with her art teacher and her art She's like eating lunch with her art teacher, and like she's just taken this like vested interest in Bertie and her talents and abilities and like so reaching out to that person and saying like, hey, have you noticed this? What's it like at school? This is what I'm hearing, like, this is what we're dealing

with after school. Because also for a long time with Bertie and her anxiety, it was only manifesting at home, like she wasn't at school. She was like holding it, to holding it, to holding it, holding it, holding it, holding it, and then she would get home and you know, and so like I was like, well, I'm not going to tell the school that she's having you. We can

hide it behind our doors. But I wish I would have earlier because then I would have known some of the things that were happening, and they could have helped me with the intervention at school, like hey, are you feeling overwhelmed right now? Do you want to take a walk? Like do you need a break? And I think that that's just I don't know, valid it's hard for bath. No,

it's brilliant. It's hard for us to ask for help even still like it just istally it's like still even though I know it's like the number one thing to being like the best mom I can be is asking other people to help me do it. You know what else? Really all anxiety at some salt baths. Why do I not like that? You post your fucking photos in a bath and it looks so great, and I'm like, I don't think I've taken a bathroom tenures? Do you do have some salts? I get like weird about bathing and

dirty water. First, that's insane, like like water with skin cells in it. I'm like, think about how like every baby book you read before you have a baby, they were like set the bedtime routine, a warm bath, and then like it makes sense, it's part of the wine down, and then you lose it, like somewhere around I want to say first or second grade, like the bath that's go away because you're just like you don't have time throw in the Yeah, the kids like kids prefer showers

like whatever. We've recently come back to the baths as like a chill down, brilliant chill down for you and for Bernie and Cricket. We don't take them together, no, but like you have a bath before you go to bed when you're stressed, and Bernie does, yes, and now and now if I see Bertie, if I can feel it, it's like a little itch, like from the inside out, and I can see it on her face. I'm like, dude, I'm gonna run an EPs some salt bath for you.

Put a little lavender oil in there. Out children, right out, it doesn't matter. That's almost eleven. She's like it's great, and sometimes she's like I don't want to do it, and then she gets in and she gets out afterwards, and she's so chill. It's like without fail every time. And whenever I'm feeling like a lot of anxiety, you take a bath. But epsom salts the key. I have them sitting next to my bath. Never used it. Going to tonight. EPs some salts also, like I am, I

should be sponsored by UP some salts. But like that some salt counsel. There has to be some salts. Hello. Yeah, Like I can't even say the word what the fund is it? I don't even know it's magnesium. And it's like you act but anyway you all I think about it too, is like actors don't they take baths in like a ton of salt when they have to drop a shipload away before a sex scene. Yeah, it also makes too skinny, so there eight never even saw that

to at least two cups of EPs, some salts. You make careful with EPs some salts and little kids though, because you can't drink it. So like, if your kid is still drinking bath, it's not for you. This is a helpful tip tip. But if you have an older child, like I have an older child who's not like sucking on the wath flattery doesn't know, she's like would never dream of it. Um, she can take an epsom salt bath. And she also has like growing pains now, so helps everything.

This is all coming down the pipe, busy Phillips. Thank you for taking time. I love you very much. Thank you for all of your wise words and advice and guidance and just experiences. We all benefit from them. We're all of us doing your best. Thank you guys so much for listening and for your amazing feedback and tweets and messages and reviews and sharing Katie's crib with your friends and your family. It means so so much to me. So please keep it coming and check us out on

shaunda land dot com. Make sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode. We're on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, and wherever you get your podcasts.