Coming to you from the Morning Star Mission sponsored studio. This is Carl and crew on Moody Radio.
Carl and crew. And we are helping you on this beautiful Monday morning, taking your next step with Jesus. A lot of tragedy in the world are our. Our eyes and hearts are drawn toward Texas. Horrific flooding. Uh, some of the statistics on this horrific event are they're almost mind boggling. Guadalupe River actually surged 20 plus feet in a matter of two hours or less. And in some regions around camp mystic, they believe that it probably had
a 20 foot rise in less than 90 minutes. It's almost hard to get your mind around, isn't it, guys?
It really is. You know, if you don't live near a river, that can change that dramatically like that. I think it is. It's it's when you see some of the images and the pictures and the before and after and you just so much devastation and heartbreak.
It's. It's overwhelming. Uh, I was in a flood one time. That was very dangerous in Fairbanks, Alaska. The Chena River actually overflowed. It was the one summer my dad went to. Took our family to Alaska, to Fairbanks, Alaska. He was getting his master's degree at that time. I was a little guy. And all I remember is the panic of adults trying to get us into. What I got into was a canoe, and we got into the canoe when there was about two inches of water underneath us, and
they said, hold tight. And within a matter of 30 minutes, the canoe was floating and we were paddling toward some rescue, some rescue vehicles that were up on some higher ground that would haul us to safety. But, I mean, I remember this like it was yesterday because of the panic that ensued from adults and people that were trying to evacuate vast swaths of Fairbanks, Alaska. And all I, all I remember was being was being comforted by some rescuers in a big military vehicle that loaded us up into
basically what was a dump truck. And standing in the dump truck is a little guy watching my mom try to stay calm. And, uh, it was it was crazy. I can only imagine then what it would be like for these precious lives to see this wall of water coming their way, or to feel like there's nothing we can do. And the stories of heroes that are coming out of this are just mind boggling. Over 160 were rescued by a water rescue. One person water rescue guy. Wow.
And his statement a quick interview that I saw. He says I'm just a dude doing what I'm, you know, called to do. This is my service. so don't call me a hero, which makes him more of a hero in my mind's eye.
Sure. Absolutely.
You know what I mean?
Of course.
It's like, wow, what an amazing thing. Camp mystic. Horrible things have transpired there. A whole cabin, my understanding is. And we'll get more clarity in days to come. But a whole cabin that was near to the river of 6 to 8 year old girls camping at a Christian camp were swept away. There are crazy stories. Miraculous stories. One little girl actually wrote a mattress for it. Sounds like three hours, possibly 12 miles downstream. And she was rescued.
And then I did see some video footage of campers that were rescued from camp mystic in a bus getting out of that area after going going for a couple of miles, it appears. Um, while they were traveling to get out of this area, they're singing incredible worship songs, and they were absolutely beautiful. Did you hear that to somebody?
Yeah, I saw that clip. It might. I just broke down in tears. You're hearing these little voices and these girls, and they're just singing. And like you said, you see the devastation out the window, and they are just praising and praising and clutching each other and singing. It was like, wow.
You see that one shot where they're going across that little riverbed that was still flooded a bit?
Yes.
And they the one girl that was filming this worship time on this bus said, oh God, oh God. As the as the bus is making its way across a flooded stream and, uh, but it was it brought tears to my eyes because here are these girls that have gone through so much in just a short amount of time, and they're given praise and glory to God. Some might scoff at that, I certainly don't. I think that's one of the great graces of God to give us voice to tragedy and to say, all hail King Jesus. Even
in the midst of a lot of pain. A lot of a lot of pain, a lot of painful stories, I witnessed one daddy who was right after the flooding occurred. He came into that area and I forget what network was interviewing him, asked him how what we can do. And he said, I want you to pray. And when he said pray, he just he broke down a bit and said, I want you to pray. Our hope is that we find some of these girls alive. And maybe my girl. It's just tough stuff, man. It's really hard
coming up here. In a moment we're going to pray. Why? Because God has got a providence. You know what that means? Means that he adjusts what we see as everyday life. And he works beyond human timetable. And he moves Indeed. God of power, God that transcends any kind of power we have. And a God whose sovereign, a God that orders the affairs of this world. There's a lot of questions we have, but at the same time we pray. Ali, would you pray?
Yeah.
Today.
Lord Jesus, we just thank you for the promise of your nearness. When we're crushed in spirit, when we're heartbroken, Lord. So we just first pray for for the rescue mission that continues, Lord, for those who are working tirelessly for families who are waiting for news. Lord, we just pray God that somehow Lord your presence because it's promised your presence would be near to them, Lord, that you would
uphold them with your strong right hand. Oh God, that you would not let the grief and the despair overtake them. But Lord, somehow, even through this God, your might and your power would be seen. God. So much heartbreak, so much loss. But God, we we trust you, Lord, we trust you. On days like this, Lord, where so many are facing the unthinkable. God, we pray for the strength for those who are still out. Lord, who are rescuing. Lord,
we pray just for miracles. Lord, you know it seems implausible right now, but God, you are a God of miracles. So Lord, if there are those still clinging to life, Lord, we pray that they would be found and rescued quickly. Lord, uh, that you would put an end to their suffering. Lord. And we just pray God that out of this Lord, out of this tragedy, Lord, you, you would be seen. God, that those who've never turned to you before would turn to you, would turn their hearts, would bow a knee
to you. God, that through this storm, Lord, literal storm Lord, that your face would be seen, your hand would be seen. God, we just thank you. And we pray for comfort and for peace. The peace that surpasses all understanding to guard hearts and minds in you, Lord. In Jesus name. Amen.
Amen. And let it be. The Lord is near to the brokenhearted and saves the crushed in spirit. It's a hard thing when you see tragedy like this, especially when these are young, innocent children. So many of them were little ones that were away on a camp at camp mystic in particular. They were between sessions at a couple camps downriver that some of them wiped out. And yet camp mystic was filled. The director of that camp, the owner of the camp director of the camp, was lost
trying to save some of those lives. He was swept away as well. A lot of pain and a lot of opportunity for us to pray. And the question is, why do we pray? Because God moves. God moves even now in the lives of those who are still living, those that are grieving. It's a lot of pain. Maybe God has you crushed in spirit. Today, we want to point you to the one who can care for your soul in ways like you can't imagine. Hang on.
Your spiritual pit stop to keep you going in the race. You're listening to Carl and crew.
And my heart is drawn this morning. To the broken hearted and the crushed in spirit. It can feel terrifying when you come to the end of yourself. And yet the Lord is near to you, and you know you want to ask and and really wrestle with, well, how near is God? Fair enough.
Yeah.
How near.
Is God?
Fair question.
And theologically and practically, the best thing I can offer you this morning. If you're coming to us here today and you feel brokenhearted and crushed in spirit. The Lord is near to you and he is right behind you. What do I mean by that? The reality of the lostness of humankind is almost overwhelmingly staggering to me. One of the myths that we're going to be debunking this week is this this myth that somehow we are all Christian when we say, I've been a Christian my whole life.
In fact, we're going to be debunking that myth tomorrow. All week long, we're going to be debunking myths. We're just taking some time aside here, just with our hearts drawn to Texas in this flooding. We're just camping on this idea here for a few minutes that the Lord is near to the brokenhearted and saves the crushed in spirit. But I, I almost want to give a precursor to what we're going to be debunking tomorrow. And that is I've been a Christian my whole life. We hear that a lot, right, Ali?
Oh, yeah, we.
We hear that a lot. But that's not true. You can't be a Christian your whole life. And the question is, for those that have this delusion of thinking they've been a Christian their whole life, I, we know that those are well-intended words, probably raised in a Christian culture, raised in a Christian home. But we are born with our backs to God. We're born with our backs to God.
This is why Jesus, when asked by one of his disciples who was really troubled in spirit, probably not crushed, but brokenhearted for sure, he said, well, we don't know where you're going. And Jesus said, let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God. Believe also in me. It's found in John 14. And then he goes on to say, I am the way and the truth and the life. And he said, you can come with me to this
place that I've prepared for you. When you realize that your way no longer works, your truth will not get you there. And the life you've pursued and wanted your whole life can only be found in Jesus Christ. That's powerful. So I want you to know from the bottom of my heart that the Lord is near to the brokenhearted and saves the crushed in spirit. And there's so many tuned in today who feel like I'm coming here for some hope. And here's the hope. The Lord is near
to you. And if you've never given your life to Jesus Christ. He's right behind you. So an obvious question is, well, how do I reach him? You turn around and he's right there. How do I get a hug from God? How do I feel? The embrace of a relationship with Jesus Christ. Turn around. He's right there. Turn around. Is this very solid biblical idea of repentance. It means turning away from the path and the way that you've been
walking into the arms of God. It means embracing the truth that I'm a sinner who needs a Savior, and his name is Jesus. And I just want to humbly ask you today, today, do you find yourself brokenhearted, crushed in spirit, and you know in your heart that you've never been in a real, living, breathing relationship with the Son of God? Today you can have that by turning around, repenting of sin, embracing the truth that Jesus died for your sins, and surrendering all that you are to Jesus
for the very first time. I say it here often, but often when we are at the end of ourselves, we are at the very best place we can be. And my friend God providentially allowed you to be here today so that you could hear the hope of the gospel. Jesus does not invite you into a religious system. He invites you into a relationship with God. Spirit empowered spirit regenerated. Change from the inside out. No more worried about. No longer worried about your circumstances on the outside, even the
behaviors that got you where you are today. But knowing that God can change you from the inner man and the inner woman to be great men and great women of God, because he is doing the work inside you today. If you have never before fully surrendered your life, all that you are to Jesus Christ, and you've been walking your own way, living by your own truth, today is the day of salvation for you friend. Today is the day.
And I just want you to pull to the side of the road if you're driving or get to a quiet place. And I want to pray for you right now, and I want you to pray along with me. Simply the words of Jesus repeated back to him from John 14 he said, I am the way. And I've got a question for you. Are you ready to go the way of Jesus today for the first time in your life? Turn around. God is right there. Turn around and turn everything over to Jesus. Is that you? Just say yes.
That is me. God, are you willing today to embrace the truth that you're a sinner and you need a savior? You're missing the mark. You've not been able to make life work on your terms, and you are giving over your life to Jesus, embracing the truth that you need him to save your life. So you're losing your life for the sake of taking hold of the life that is found in Christ Jesus. Just say that's me. That's me God. And now, father, for all these that are
surrendering to Jesus Christ today, your name be praised. Flood them with streams of living water. Hope eternal. Give them a life like you promised in John 14. You are the life. Fill them up, Lord. And I give you praise today. If the cry of your soul is total surrender to God through the blood of Jesus Christ, who paid the ultimate sacrifice for your sin. I want to welcome you to the family. This prayer of faith is a cry of the soul. It says, I give, you've
got me. Take over every bit of my life. I surrender all to you today and a miracle happens. The life of Jesus is now given to you. The great exchange has happened and we want to help you in your first steps with Jesus. How are we doing this today, Alex?
Well, we have a link for you. If you text the word new to 800 555 7898, we're going to send you a response that gives you some next steps. What to look for in a church, everything that you're going to need to get a good start. Just text the word new to 800 555 7898 N-e-w new to (800) 555-7898.
Yeah. And we want to welcome you to the family. God is proving to you right now that the Lord is near to the brokenhearted and saves the crushed in spirit. Text new to 800 555 7898. Welcome to the family.
This is Carl and crew on Moody Radio.
It's Carl and crew helping you take your next step with Jesus. We may have something for you to step into here. Got Edward Graham from Samaritan's Purse going to give us an update here in just a moment. I want to give credit where credit's due. I've been talking about this kid all morning. Now I have a name. Scott Ruskin, rescue swimmer with the US Coast Guard who saved 165 lives in the Texas floods. He's 26 years old. And you know what he said when they asked him
about it? He says, I'm just a dude doing my job.
Wow.
That makes you love him all the more. Uh, when we find tragedies like this, the question is, what do we do? Boy, have we got someone for you right now. Edward Graham. What do we do? You've got a you got a great mission here, don't you, my man?
Uh, thanks, Carl. I appreciate you having us on. It's. You know, it's an honor to work in the Lord's ministry, but it's also during hard and difficult times. And you see brokenness and hurt so often in times like this in Texas. So we, uh, my whole office this morning, we start our morning off in prayer. And so we lifted Texas up in prayer this morning. Have been praying all over the holiday weekend.
Yeah.
Edward Graham, our our guest right now, chief operating officer of Samaritan's Purse. He oversees the international and domestic operations of Samaritan's Purse. Tell us a little bit about the reports. I know you're going to be leaving for Texas here in the next couple of hours. Tell us the reports you're getting from your team that's already there.
Yeah. Thank you. You know, we keep equipment also down in Coppell, Texas, right outside of Dallas. And so they've already deployed equipment. We had assessors go out the following day. And so we're getting reports about 150 to 200 homes
destroyed And severely damaged. And so after getting the all clear from the emergency responders there, and when they're done with an area and clearing out, unfortunately looking for human remains will go in with church partners and volunteers, and we'll muck out and clean out these homes that have been flooded, cut back the drywall and get them dried in. Um, but there's so much loss and hurt during a time like this. And many of these homeowners want to know
if God forsaken them or forgotten about them. And this is where we also partner with the Billy Graham Association. They send their down there rapid response chaplains that are trained on how to share hope in crisis, to let them know their love and not forgotten. And so we go there to serve in the name of Jesus. After so much brokenness and loss and the pain right now.
You were talking. I heard the updates this morning, the news you talked there about the mystic camp, that camp director, uh, who lost his life trying to save these little girls. I looked over photos over the weekend of him and the ministries had there. He clearly had a heart and a burden for these girls. And I think about the families that have lost so much. There's nothing you can tell them right now that eases the pain or the brokenness. So let's just pray the love of the church lift
up their feet. How many churches were involved in this camp? That's an you know, you think of that. There's so many churches that are hurting right now, and we've got a lot of prayer to do. And I believe in the power of prayer. It works.
Yeah it does. Edward Graham, our guest right now. What have you learned when. I don't think anyone comes in equipped for how to respond to people that have gone through tragic loss. What have you learned, Edward? What was an aha moment for you when you were even working with chaplains? Much your senior had been there, done that. What did you learn?
Yeah, you know, I learned in combat even too. There's no there's no really right thing to say other than to be present. And then the power of the gospel, you know, when you speak, you speak with the Word of God and use his words and what Scripture says and rely on that power, and people are going to be in such pain when you show up to a location like that and they're not really interested in your in your opinion. They want you to be present. They
want you to listen. Um, but they also expect, you know, action. They need help. They need to be lifted up out of where they are right now. And that's where the love of the church comes in. And that's where volunteers, people listening to your program wondering, well, what can I do and how can I get involved? Well, Samaritan's Purse, we need volunteers that aren't afraid to go get dirty. You know, anyone can do this. We have the right equipment.
We have the tools, we have the chaplains. We just need people willing to put on the work gloves and go love their neighbor that is suffering right now. And, uh, and when asked, has God forsaken me? Answer with what the Scripture says. Think of Proverbs chapter three, verses five through six. I think that all the time trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. And I had I remember in combat and all my ways acknowledge him and he's going to
direct our paths during times like this. And that's my prayer for this community down there.
Edward Graham with Samaritan's Purse. If you want more ways to help, ways to get involved, just text purse to 800 555 7898. Text purse to (800) 555-7898.
Yeah, I think what's interesting, Edward, I thank you for taking some time. I know you got a lot on your plate. We're going to be praying for you. As a matter of fact, we're going to do that right now. I'm with you, Edward. You know what I am praying now, guys? Like I've never prayed before in my life. I was telling the church this weekend, I don't know why, but I have a level of expectancy. Let's take a level of expectancy and God's providence in his sovereignty and his omnipotence.
And we're going to pray. We're going to pray over you, Edward, father, over Edward Graham and his team with Samaritan's Purse. I pray in the name of Jesus that you would protect them, that you would give them supernatural teleprompting by your spirit. Words to say, where to go, what to pick up, what boards to move, what to look for. In all these things we just rely on you and we've seen you move. You can do it again. And Lord, I'm
thankful for Edward. I'm thankful for his team. And I'm I'm grateful for people listening right now who are feeling prompted by your spirit. I have time, I'm not afraid to get dirty. And I pray in Jesus name that you'd raise up an army of men and women who are ready to step up and say, we're putting our faith on display. We're going to shine so brightly that you will see our deeds in the middle of agony
and glorify our father who is in heaven. We pray this believing and confident that as we pray, you go to work God. In the name of Jesus we pray. Amen.
Amen.
Edward. Thank you. I love your heart, man.
I appreciate it and we love your radio ministry. Thank you for preaching the Word of God and the power that comes with it. Thank you so much.
Hey.
Godspeed my man. Again, that keyword is purse. Text purse to 800 555 7898. Purse to 800 555 7898. And I'll tell you how bold I'm going to be on this one right now. If you're a member of 180 Chicago listening right now, I'm going to put out an alert today. If we've got a couple a few of you that are ready, you got time. You're not willing to. You're not afraid to get dirty. I love how he put that right, Ali.
I mean.
You're not afraid to get dirty. Uh, we're going to be reaching out today, and. And let's deploy a team. Let's deploy them from all over the nation. What if God just moved upon hearts right now and said, I'm within striking distance. I can get on a plane. I can get down there. And the link for all of this is purse to 800 555, 78, 98. This gives me in the middle of tragedy, pain, anguish, hope rising up in the name of Jesus. It's got to put fire in your belly. Ali, this is Hope.
Yeah.
If you want to be a part of it, just text purse to 800 555 7898. Purse to (800) 555-7898.
You're listening to Curl and crew on Moody Radio.
We're going to be debunking myths all week long. In fact, let me forecast for you where we're going this week. I've been a Christian my whole life is tomorrow. That's a myth. But a lot of people believe it. Or maybe they don't believe it, but they say it. I need to change my life now. At face value. You'd go. Yeah, I do need to change my life.
I'm.
I'm down for that. Right?
Oh, yeah.
But the biblical reality is that's not true. Or it's at least partially true. Only partially. I can choose my identity. Whoa. There's a hot button issue for the day in which we live. We're going to debunk that myth a little bit this week. And I can't break the cycle that I've been in my whole life. Some of you feel that deeply. We're going to be tackling that on Friday. Today there is no absolute truth. It's a tough one, especially when you look up a definition of truth. Absolute truth,
absolute truth. There's a definition is a statement or proposition that is universally and objectively true, independent of context, perception or belief. It remains constant across all circumstances and is not subject to change or interpretation. Ooh. That's heavy. And so when I asked grok way early this morning, is gravity an absolute truth? No, they said, because it's subject to another person's interpretation. And I'm like, well, jump off a garage.
Oh, boy.
You know, grok, jump off a garage. Let's find out what's going on here. So what is truth? Pilate said that. What is truth? Jesus made a claim. I am the way and the truth and the life. That's a big claim. I am the truth. I worked with a guy in the oil fields who was a very intellectual guy, and one day we were working on building some cabinets. We're 300 miles north of the Arctic Circle and is a
brilliant guy. And then I'm realizing, whoa, he has some thoughts that not only had I never thought of, I thought were kind of crazy. He said, you know, there are parallel dimensions right here where we are. There are other things going on around us. There could be people passing us right now in other dimensions, and we just cannot see them. Well, how do you argue with that? You just say, no, there aren't. That doesn't work.
So what?
What? Where did you land with that?
Oh, I'll tell you where I landed. I listened and I listened, and we were building it together. And I kept listening. And then I was so pumped when it was time to go to the chow hall for lunch. Because that conversation ended. Because. What do you do with that alley? Yeah. What do you do with that?
And I mean, and I think sometimes when we get into conversation, if people feel like if people have really studied up on something, whatever it is that they believe to be true, and they can present it with a level of conviction and what seems to be like some research, it can be hard to know how to how to approach those conversations when people have what they claim to be. This is the truth that I've discovered. These are the fact claims that I'm making, and this is how I
back it up. Sometimes that can get dicey because in your mind, in your heart, you go, that sounds really off, but how do I prove it?
How do you prove it? How do I prove there's no one, you know, dancing a jig in another dimension right here in front of me in the wood shop, 300 miles north of the Arctic Circle. How do I prove that? Do I try to bump into another dimension? Hard to prove. So is there absolute truth? Or is all truth relative? We live in a world today that's shaky in the knees when it comes to what is absolute truth.
Yes, because it seems arrogant to suggest that what you believe is actually the truth for everyone.
Coming up, Andy Bannister from the other side of the pond. Let's get an apologist in here and let's drill down on it. Is there absolute truth? And how do we know that to be true?
Walking closer to Jesus every day. You're listening to Carl and crew.
Jesus said it. I am the way and the truth and the life. No man comes to the father, but through me. He was very clear. I'm going somewhere. I'm preparing a place for you, and I will come again. If those aren't true. And if we can't take them to the bank. We're like the Apostle Paul says, we're to be pitied more than any man. But didn't Pilate asks the right question, guys? Check this out. This is
from John 1838. I'll set it up with this. You got Jesus making claims of his kingship, and you've got Jewish leaders saying he's seditious. He's undermining everything that we are as a culture. And Pilate says, what is truth? I think he actually wanted to know what the truth was. What do you say, Andy Bannister? Pilate asked a good question, didn't he?
Hey, Carl, how you doing? Yes, I think it's an excellent question. Yeah, arguably, it's one of the most important questions we can ask. Right? What? What is truth? Um. I mean, to go, boy. Where do you go from there? What a great starting point. So Pilate asked the right question. Shame. I don't think he hung around long enough to wait for the answer, though. I would say.
Yeah.
Doctor Andy Bannister, our guest right now, he's the director of Solace. He speaks and teaches regularly throughout the UK, Europe, Canada and the US, addressing both Christians and those of all faiths on issues relating to faith, culture, politics and society. You know, when it comes to the claim of the Christian that Jesus is the way, we are also saying that every other way is false, which to many people, and this is the pushback that I'm sure you hear often.
Isn't Christianity arrogant? Isn't it arrogant of us to claim that not just that we believe it, that, but that it's true and that everything else is false?
Well, I'd say a couple of things there. Ali, kind of straight away. The first thing is that with respect and we need to be careful not to try and score cheap points with this one. But the point is, truth claims are by their very nature, exclusive. So if I say two plus two is four, you could turn around and go, dude, you're so arrogant. I think it's nine, man. How dare you tell me you're crazy Brits with your exclusive mathematics. If I say hey, you know, the current
president of the USA is Donald Trump. That rules out, you know, 300 million other Americans who are not the current president of the USA. And the list goes on. And to anyone who gets nervous about exclusive truth claims, I can guarantee that no matter how relative you want to be, if you're sitting on an airplane about to take off from an airport, and the pilot comes over the tannoy and she announces and says, do you know what?
I don't believe in exclusive truth. So once we're at cruising altitude, anyone you like can come and press buttons up here, because I don't think I've got all the answers. I don't think you'd hang around and go, what an amazingly progressive pilot. You'd be running for the emergency exits because we know instinctively, actually, deep down, the truth, by its nature, is exclusive and truth matters. Often life depends on on truth. It's not just a game.
How do you land on absolute truth? When I ask Grock about three hours ago, is gravity.
Big mistake. Right away. Yeah.
No, but I'm playing with this one because I said, is gravity? Is gravity an absolute truth? And this is what it came back to. It came back to the definition of absolute truth. It said, well, if it's independent of context, perception or belief, it would not be truth to some. How do you even argue with that, Andy? I'm being real here.
Well, I'd say it's it just shows the danger of an I because of course, an I doesn't have any understanding of truth in the first place. I is just following its programming and it was programmed by flawed human beings. Yeah, I think so. I think if you go right back to the ancients, I mean, Plato, you know, that classic
Greek philosopher is quite interesting. He gave to me one of the greatest definitions of truth that stood for, you know, 4000 years, more or less, he said, you know, among the things that make truth true and universal and true and real truth is external to us. So it doesn't matter what you call personally feel about it. Uh, to go, it's external to you. So you may not like the fact, uh, that there's a, there's a, there's a traffic jam on the highway in front of you, but closing your eyes
and wishing isn't going to make it go away. Um. Truth is universal. So you know something is true here in the UK. It's true in the USA. It's true globally. Um, so that truth, by its very nature is is true everywhere. Two plus two is four, wherever you go. And then true truth is also true. Throughout time. It's always been the case that two plus two is four. It will always be the case that two plus two is four. And it's interesting you ask that question about gravity. If
grok was a human being, I would say so. You do think it's possible that you'll wake up tomorrow morning, grok, and be floating up near the ceiling somewhere, because gravity is just, uh, someone's perception. Um, you know, gravity, by its very nature, is external to us. We can't do anything about it. We're kind of stuck with it. And if you if you don't believe that, then perhaps don't take up skydiving as a hobby doctor.
Andy Bannister, our guest right now. Now, you've written this, that I think is fascinating, that sometimes we can slip from the true claim that all people have equal value to the false claim that all ideas have equal merit. And I think that this is a good one to kind of dive into a little bit more, because sometimes it feels dishonoring to people to suggest that all ideas are not equal, even though all people have equal merit. Speak to that a little bit.
That's the crucial thing, Ali, in our age right now, we've merged those two things. So when you say you disagree with someone that can be taken as as you hate them in some way, but that's such a dangerous slope to go on. First thing, it doesn't respect the person. You know. If you and I were sitting down over a, you know, for a coffee somewhere and I happened to say, uh,
you know, come out with something that's not true. Perhaps as a Brit, I make some comment about American politics that you look at me and you go, classic, a classic, Brit. You got it wrong. If you just pat me on the head and go, no, that's okay. That's true for you. I won't offend you. Actually, that's treating me like an infant. Actually. It's going. Andy is so immature and so unsophisticated and so hopeless. I don't I don't challenge his wrong idea
because he might get upset. That's actually infantilized me. It hasn't respected me. Respected me is going, hey, Andy, let me just stop you for a moment. What you've said there. I appreciate why you might think it, but it's not actually correct. Can I can I show you why now? Sure. You can do it in a hateful way. You can ding me round the head and go. You're crazy, nutter. You're just mad. That's not helpful. Um, but you can correct me in a way that's that's loving and engaging
and treats me as an adult. So that's the first thing we actually infantilize people if we don't separate those two things. And then the other problem I think you run into there as well is we're back to the to the universal nature of truth. We do all kinds of damage to society. If we don't have a way of figuring out what's right and wrong and what's true and what isn't true, I mean, just take some of
the big battles historically of our age. I was in America, um, kind of recently had spent three months over there, and one of my highlights was being in Washington and standing on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial where, uh, you know, Martin Luther King gave that. gave that amazing I have a dream speech. And, you know, you look back to those great moments in American history where where justice has
rolled forward. What does it mean if it turns around and going, well, you can't challenge someone in injustice because we might offend them. Maybe it's not the case that all people are born equal. You know, if you believe in slavery and racism, that's okay. We'll just pat you on the head and let you be. I think that's
a devastating place to end up. I think actually, things like justice and human rights, as well as the bigger questions of faith and God and spirituality and Jesus and so forth, all those things collapse utterly if we forget how to talk about truth, even if some of those conversations aren't always easy ones.
Yeah.
Andy Bannister, that's a good bump of the cup, because oftentimes angry evangelicals, uh, dominate the landscape. And their their willingness to embrace what is real for someone else is oftentimes wanting. And that's a great challenge, Andy, I love that. Love your heart. They're coming up here in a moment. We live in a world, Andy, that each man is doing what seems right in their own eyes. It's the absence of truth. It's very subjective. Relative. How do we
witness in a world without absolute truth? More with Andy Bannister. Straight ahead.
Romans eight brought her to Jesus while broadcasting traffic overnight. Super die is in the crew. It's curl and crew on Moody Radio.
All week debunking myths today. There is no absolute truth. Andy Bannister, our guest from the other side of the pond. Good to have you, Andy. The last words in the book of Judges are unnerving. Everyone did what was right in his own eyes. My question revolves around moral relativism. If all morality is relative to the person at hand, doesn't this lead to sexual relativism, even, uh, Of raising children. Relativism. Uh,
death relativism. Doesn't it lead to each man does what is right in almost any and everything?
Andi it does, Carl. But with one just minor thing, I would I would add that I found interesting over the years, most people I've met who are moral relativists, we live in a very relativistic culture. You've summed it up well, but no one is a moral relativist in the sense that they're willing for people to be relativistic. To them. Most people are moral relativists. They want the freedom to do what they want, but they want other
people to respect them. I remember once talking to a to a student years ago who was a moral relativist, and we're having quite a sort of frustrating conversation. And then this light bulb moment occurred to me and she was banging on about, there's no moral values, everything is personal and so forth. So I leant across mid-conversation and just picked up her phone and put it in my pocket, and she said, what are you doing? I said, oh,
I've stolen your phone. Carry on. You were saying, she's like, well, I want my phone back. I went, no, no, no, you've just told me that morals are relative and you've convinced me. So I think stealing phones is okay. It's okay for me. Might not be okay for you, but it's okay for me. It's my phone now. So you were saying? Finally she starts banging the table, saying, give me my phone back. I went, I'll give you your phone back. When you concede that some morals may be
more than relativistic. And she grinned and went, yeah. Okay. Fair point. Can I have my phone?
Give me my phone.
So yeah, moral relativism works if people abide by your rules. And I always think that inconsistency is is interesting. So if you're listening to this and you've got friends, family members, you know who are in this position, just turn the tables gently and go, are you genuinely willing to let other people behave to you entirely as they like? I don't think you are. So there's a hypocrisy issue going
on here. So it's not quite. Society is perhaps not quite as relativistic as we might first think at times.
Doctor Andy Bannister, our guest right now. I love that question. I know you're big on asking questions in terms of engaging in these conversations. Give us some more suggestions for how to nudge someone lovingly toward at least an openness to the idea that there is an absolute truth, that there is moral absolute.
Yeah, I think one of the first things I would say when you're talking to someone about this, the word morality, I think, sometimes causes a problem because if you're dealing with somebody, as there are many in our culture who are suspicious about religion, sometimes in their mind morality can sort of mean this very dry, desiccated, almost, almost pharisaism.
You know, they've got this idea that religious people like to sit up there looking down at others and intoning these other things you should do, and these are things you shouldn't do, and they react. And I'm sympathetic in that because Jesus had a few words to say for the Pharisees. So a great question to ask somebody might be, hey, what do you think morality is? What do you mean
by morality? What is it we're talking about? Because that's I think, sets up, you know, if they give you that kind of sort of language back to say, well, you know what? Jesus talks a lot about the good life, but I don't think he used those. That language. I think what I find attractive about Jesus, you know, his whole message was God wants the very best for us. He wants us to be in relationship with him. He
wants us to love him and love each other. That was the two commands Jesus reduced the law to, and everything flows out of that. And so certainly for Christian ethics, Christian ethics, and Christian morality, I think when you read the New Testament really should be an attitude of gratitude. It flows out of, because what God has done for us in Christ therefore live differently. You could argue that's
a summary of all Paul's teaching on ethics, frankly. And if that's what ethics is, it looks great when it gets disconnected from Jesus, and that the life that God intends for us to have and becomes just dry, desiccated commandments, no wonder it looks problematic and no longer no wonder why people then react against it as people react to the Pharisees. But I think the way into that conversation is to say to your friend, hey, when you say morality, what do you mean by that? What does that word
mean to you? Because I think most people would see it negatively, not positively. And so you've got to start a few steps back. Does that kind of make sense?
Yes. That's excellent.
That's really good. Andy Bannister our guest right now okay. So I'm going with this idea. And I think you're right on. Everybody seeks the good life, whatever that may look like if that's the case. Andy, I've been so intrigued. I'm most intrigued with Paul before. Agrippa. Here's a man that's being called down on his mission, and what he does is he shares his story. And it must have been it was three minutes and 10s at reading pace
to tell his story. Yeah. And it's so rattled, Agrippa, he says, do you think you're going to convert me in such a short time? It isn't our story, that truth of the good life in us. Isn't that maybe one of the best points of argumentation from an apologetic that's effective?
Totally. I would say there are two components to it, to a really powerful presentation of the gospel and apologetic if you want to use the technical language. Carl, I think the first is our story, and I'll say briefly why in a second. But then coupled with that is why people should take our story seriously. Because if you just tell your story, everyone's got a story. Our Buddhist friends have a story. Our Muslim friends have a story.
If you just have a story, people need to know why I should take it seriously so that that is important. But the story piece is crucial because I think we're in a time increasingly where more and more, especially younger people, are not asking the question so much is Christianity true? That comes later. They're asking the question, does it matter? Does it make a difference? And your story can answer that question. And by the way, on the morality piece,
I think it's a very powerful approach. If rather than sort of bang on about this is right and this is wrong and starting there. What about backing up and saying, look, the reason I follow Jesus is, look, I'm not a good person. I know the kind of person I am. Yes. And I'm hugely grateful for what God did for me in coming the person of Jesus while I was still a scumbag, while I was still a rotter, while I was still God's enemies. You're paraphrasing Romans five verse eight,
by the way, here. And to go, I'm so grateful that God welcomed me into his family and forgave me in Christ while I was not a good person. And you know what? I'm still not a good person. I'm, praise God, a better person because of God's work transforming me. But there are days when you know I'm still a
bit of a mess. But actually what I'm what I love about being a Christian is God doesn't say, be a better person, sort your life out, but forgives you and takes the initiative and then through the spirit in you, gives you the power to begin changing and living differently. And that's a very different story, a story of morality. I think people think the church is sitting there, do this and don't do the other thing. That's a I
think that's a caricature of the gospel. Rather, the gospel says, no, here is the power to change and the power to live differently, beginning with becoming a new creation in and through Jesus.
Doctor Andy Bannister, our guest right now, I want to point you to a resource. He's edited and contributed a chapter to a book called Have You Ever Wondered Finding the everyday clues to meaning, purpose, and spirituality? Just text wonder to 855 five 7898. Text wonder to 800 555 7898.
I don't want to let him go, Andy. Hold on here a second. I think there's a lot of people, many tens of thousands listening across North America right now, maybe many more. They have an incredible heart to see. And this is an epidemic across America, as I'm sure it is in Europe. A lot of kids were raised in church, but they were never in Christ.
Yeah.
How in the world do we break through that relativism that those kids have embraced in a word, in a phrase, in a paragraph? What do you say, Andy?
Well, since Ali. Ali very kindly mentioned the book, the approach that we take in that book is to start with the things that those kids care about. This, by the way, is what Paul does in acts 17. He starts with what his audience care about there in Athens. Start with what they care about. And most young people I meet are passionate about things like justice. They're passionate
about things like human rights. And that's a great place to start with those things that they already care about and then be gently saying, look, all those things that you matter about, those things that you're animated about, they only make sense. They only work if human life has value, if human beings genuinely, genuinely have dignity and value and worth, if we are nothing more than a collection of atoms, then justice goes out the window. Human rights is just
a ludicrous idea. It's meaningless. On the other hand, if the Christian story is true that we were created in God's image, that God demonstrates our value by dying for us in Christ, then yeah, there are questions that need answering. But here's the good news that gives a foundation for all the things you care about. Justice. Yes, matters. Racism is wrong. Human rights is really important, but those things
only matter if Christianity is true. So try and find something in where your friends, your son, your daughter, your grandchild, whoever it is you care about, try and find something where they are actually already camped without realizing it. On part of the Christian story and effectively you're you're saying to them, come on home, you're kind of halfway there. I know, yes, you've got frustrations and questions. Bring those.
The church is a place for those things. But come on back to where those things you already care about actually best make sense? That's how I often start with young adults and young people.
That's powerhouse. Andy Bannister, our guest here, guys. And again Ali, we got a link, don't we? And this is a great resource.
Just text wonder to (800) 555-7898. Wonder to 800 555 7898.
He's a sports fanatic with a stat for anything you can think of. Young Thunder is in the crew. It's curling crew on Moody Radio. Zero.
This whole week we're going to be debunking myths. They happened. I saw a story here recently where children across the world are rejoicing because they had been told forever and a day that you have to wait 20 to 30 minutes after you eat a meal before you get in the swimming pool.
That's a popular one.
Now they're debunking it. I mean, I saw it on a network newscast that that has that was a myth. But boy, did I believe it. I thought, I don't get in that pool. I'm going to cramp up and go to the bottom of this.
That's exactly what you think. The worst possible thing. If I eat a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and then get in the pool, I'm going down immediately. Yeah, it's kind of what they make you think.
No.
And the question is, how many of mom's carrots that are split open for me on this tray, on this tray are going to have that effect. I remember as a little kid thinking in Tempe, Arizona, sixth grade, thinking how many of these carrots constitute a meal?
Isn't that funny? It's awesome.
Yes.
And I'm.
Telling you, every parent believed that myth.
And.
Passed it down.
Oh, yeah.
Generation after generation, apparently.
Okay.
And now that myth has been blown out of the water.
How about this one? Um, Bulls hate the color red. It enrages them.
Did you believe myth? It's a myth.
Definitely a.
Myth. Okay.
Myth. Okay. I did not know that until this very moment.
Bats are blind. Also a myth.
That's a blind.
Blind is.
A bat.
Yeah, but they're not. I thought.
They are not.
Gray.
They are not blind.
I thought they just saw, like gray. Okay.
Chewing gum stays in your stomach for 5 to 7 years.
Yeah. It doesn't.
It doesn't. How about this one? We only use 10% of our brains.
Not true. Well, hold it.
Hold it, hold it. Time out here a second. Some days it feels like that. Would you go with that one?
I would go.
With that one. But I mean I'm as I'm looking at some of these commonly believed myths, a lot of them are being corrected. I thought that you lose most of the heat through your head.
Yeah.
Myth.
I don't know.
That is.
Not true.
I disagree with that.
What do you mean.
You disagree with that?
I disagree. It feels like most of the heat comes out of my head.
It's not true.
So you can play in the cold without a hat and not get not get a cold.
You'll catch a cold if you go out. That also a myth. See? There you go. Colds are caused by viruses. Not. Don't tell the kids that.
Yeah.
No, I mean it. Yeah, it they are caused by viruses, not by going out and catching a cold.
Although my grandma, she would she would argue all day up and down to.
You're gonna catch a cold.
You're gonna catch a cold out there.
All right.
Well, where are you going with this? Because right now you've just ruined my childhood.
Ali just.
Totally destroyed.
It.
I want to hear from you. You've got one of those myths you always believe to be true. And then you realized, uh oh, that's not true at all. 855 five 7898 you can call or text on this one. What's that myth that boy you believed was true until it was debunked? 855 five 7898.
I want to hear voices on this one. So let's get as many callers.
As we can get calls.
What are those myths that need to be debunked or that you found out that wasn't true? 855 five 7898 goodness sakes, some of these you just gave me, it's going to take me a few minutes to recover, right? I don't know if I'm going to make it.
Get to know the team behind the scenes. Follow Carl and crew on Facebook and Instagram.
Man, I'm glad this one's a myth. You can get warts from touching toads.
Oh yeah, I did used to think that one.
Yep. You did. Yeah.
Oh, I definitely thought that one.
Well, I'm glad I didn't, because I touched a lot of toads.
And you were all good.
Yeah. No warts. Uh, if you swallow watermelon seeds, you'll grow watermelon in your stomach.
Yep. Come on. I feel like I should have.
Thought more deeply about that one, because. Yes, I believed that, too.
All you got to do is do a little bit of thinking, going. Hmm. I wonder how often that's happened.
It just keeps getting repeated. And so it you don't even critically examine it.
It happens. When I was a little kid, my older brothers told me, you know how when you get, like, a pizza from, like, I don't know, like a Papa John's or something like that. And there's those little, like, air bubbles on them.
Yes.
Yeah. My brothers, when I was like five, my brothers told me that there were little pizza men inside of those bubbles that when I ate them, they would swim around inside and make me healthy. That's so. I don't think that's a I don't think that's.
A common one. I give your.
Brothers an honorable mention.
For that one. Yeah, that's pretty creative.
That's really.
Creative. Yeah.
Ivy in Ohio. What's that myth that was debunked for you?
Well, all right, so it wasn't exactly debunked for me, but, uh, I don't I don't, uh, it's the one that says that, uh, dogs can only see black and white. I don't know, I feel like I feel like my dog can definitely see color. That's all. Oh.
So you're still believing it, even though it might be true? Okay, I get you. Ivy. Actually, I appreciate.
Ivy is correct. Saying he feels like his dog doesn't see just black and white because that that is a myth. Dogs can see more color than just black and white.
Oh, yeah.
Okay, so. So he is. He he thinks that it wasn't debunked, but it's debunked now. Because it is. It is incorrect.
That's good to know.
Yeah. Did you.
Know did you know that when.
Carl was here I had heard.
You know, one time I had 50 huskies. And I believe that until this day, I thought that they could see two shades of black and white. Okay.
I thought my dog.
Was living in the 60s.
Nope. All right.
I thought my dog was living in the 60s. You're a piece of work. Oh my goodness. Yeah. Swallow your gum. One came through. I'm still having a hard time with bulls. Don't charge or irritated by red. Then what in the world is the guy out there doing the.
It's the movement of the blanket.
Yeah.
Not the color.
The bulls actually don't see the color.
So it's the movement. It's not the color. So the color is more for the spectators than it is for the bulls?
Exactly. It's been.
Well, there you go. There you go. I don't know if this is a good segment or not. It's just making life sad for me because a lot of these, I was just enjoying believing. Now it's pretty good, I'll tell you. Stephanie in Indiana, what myth was debunked for you? Steph?
I love.
The myth. If you tuck your hair behind your ears and it'll eventually make your ears stick out permanently. My grandma. My grandma used to say that Grandma's man.
Grandma's are the source.
Of a lot of these myths.
I'm telling you, they do a lot over time.
The repeated tucking is going to cause those ears that I've not heard that one. But, Stephanie, that is hilarious.
Lest I get a myth out there about cats, could you please check this one out? Here's what I've heard.
Okay. What if it's.
Right or wrong? I've heard that cats do not see well at all beyond like 30, 40ft.
Okay, let me see if I can figure it out.
That somebody check that one out, would you please? Uh, yes. 0607. Thank you. If you swallow your gum, your guts will stick together. No, I had not heard that one. That is, there's some things people ought not tell their children at all. That would be one of them. Your guts are going to stick together if you swallow your gum. I heard that it stayed in your belly for 5 to 7 years. Found out that one's a lie.
Yeah, that one I believed too.
If I drink too much water, says 2857, I'll have frogs in my stomach. Who tells people this stuff?
Also, Carl, you were correct about cats. They they can see blurry past 20ft, but but it's blurry.
So they have less. Their vision is less sharp than humans.
I'm going to tell you something funny.
Interesting.
I felt sad for her two rescue cats when I heard that last week. I felt sad for them because what? Beyond 20ft is so much awesome stuff and these guys can't see it.
Well, they just.
Got to get closer.
I know.
But.
It's hard to. They're stuck in a house. They can't see the beautiful green tree.
Well, there's an opportunity. Maybe they need glasses because I don't know how well I see beyond 20ft.
Without my glasses.
Just take them to.
The coming up.
Taking more of your calls. It's a little crazy. Debunking myths. What's the myth? You believe that? Now you go. Someone was pulling one over on me. The 800 555 7898. Give us a call. We'd love to hear your voice.
Tune in whenever you like. Check out the Carl and Crew podcast wherever you like to stream.
Just having a short shot of fun. What myths were debunked for you? Oh, grandpa, why'd you do this? 6021 says when I was young, my grandpa used to tell me that dragonflies would seal your eyeballs shut if you let them get too close.
What?
That's such a weird one.
Goodness. Interesting.
Going back to the phone lines, who do we have here?
We have Roy, first time caller from Ohio. What's that myth that's been debunked or maybe needs to be?
Okay, here's the deal. I'm a certified personal trainer. And what used to drive me crazy was when people come in and they tell you they see some muscle on a person or me, and they would say, oh, all that muscle is going to turn to fat if you quit working out. Well, it can't happen. Apples can't turn to oranges.
And what happened?
We got the passion of a personal trainer here.
Keep going.
Roy, this is great. No, no. Go ahead.
You know, if you stop working out, your muscles will atrophy. And then if you keep eating it like you were when you were working out, well, then you can get fat on top of that, uh, shrunken non-US muscle.
Well, there you go.
This is this is very good, Roy, because I did hear that for years now. I think that was debunked in my brain as I got a little older here. But atrophy. Yes. Turning to fat. No. What was what what was the purpose of that myth? To not go to the gym.
I know, to discourage.
It's all going to turn to fat anyway.
Soon as it's not working out.
Because if you stop working out, it's.
Like, no, no, no, no. There are benefits to working out to weight training. Let's go for.
It.
Let's go back to the phone lines. Who do we have?
Ali.
Let's go to Evelyn. First time caller from Florida. What's the myth that you heard? That's been debunked.
Hey. Good morning. Hey, I heard all my life that if you eat salt, it dries your blood out.
Wow.
Okay, I.
Guess.
I've heard.
That one. Where do these come from?
Where do they come from?
Maybe to get your kids to not eat as many French fries or something, like, I don't know.
It's a.
Mystery there.
There is. Usually with these myths, there's another motive. Like the swimming one. We've already tackled it. But miles in Florida. What do you say, Miles?
Well, you know what? Since you already heard that one. The other one was when I was in Little League and I played Little League baseball, and I also played football, and I always wanted I was always going to the gym and my mom would say, no, if you lift weights, it's going to stunt your growth. And I hated.
That.
You know, because I wanted to work worst because all the other guys were bigger than I was, you know. And so that was the one. I couldn't stand it. All my friends got to go and work out, but I couldn't go work out.
Well, here's the good news. Even if your mom was right back then, Myles, the growth plates are done growing so you can go to the gym. I want to tell you, you can go to the gym Myles. Everything's fine. Thanks Myles for calling in. It's totally safe. These are hilarious.
They are really cracking knuckles.
Cracking knuckles 4701 cracking knuckles caused arthritis I did hear that.
And I definitely heard I've seen this one come in a couple times about crossing your eyes and they'll stay that way. That was a that's that that's a myth. I think it.
Discouraged.
Eye crossing.
Yeah I mean it hurts, but they don't stick, thankfully. Uh, there's some funny ones in here, too. Uh, my wife thought that the North Pole was a myth, Like Santa.
I like to.
Like. Yes. Well, I think when you think of the North Pole, you think of like, there's a Christmas shop up there, you know, like a factory. But it's just like a it's just a place.
I is it in Alaska?
Well there's two. There's two North Pole and that's north of the city of North Pole. But there is a North Pole.
Alaska.
I actually just found this out over the weekend. It came out, came up. Someone said that they had been to the North Pole. And in my mind, I was going, that exists. I didn't know that was a real place.
Oh, just this weekend.
Just this weekend.
Someone told me they'd been to the North Pole. And I was thinking, did you get to see Santa Claus? But I guess it's a real place.
Oh my goodness.
Someone gave this one. This is sobering, but it's this is a myth that needs to be debunked. And I think it already has been. Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me.
Definite myth. Definite myth.
Maybe. To the flip side, it'd almost be better off with sticks and stones. Good feedback here. Some crazy myths out there. We're debunking them all week long. Hang on here.
She was trying to earn her way to God, but God showed her she didn't have to. Ali is in the crew. It's Carl and crew on Moody Radio.
We have Rebecca McLaughlin with us this morning. She wrote the book Confronting Christianity 12 Hard Questions for the World's Largest Religion.
So let's tackle a big one. How can you say, Rebecca? There's only one true faith, you narrow minded evangelicals, some might say.
Um, I absolutely answer to the accusation of being evangelical. I don't know that I'm. I hope I'm not narrow minded. And I say that because I actually make it a priority to read and listen to people who think very differently than I do.
Including.
Plenty of atheists and agnostics thinkers. And I think when it comes to the question of how can you say there's only one true faith it feels to people like it's respectful to all the different kind of world religions to say, you know, maybe you guys each have a different piece of the pie. You know, maybe there are just multiple ways to look at the question of God.
Maybe there are multiple paths. You know, there are various kind of metaphors and stories people tell to suggest that perhaps Christianity and Islam and Hinduism and Judaism and Buddhism could all be true in their own ways. And one of the biggest problems with that is Jesus. And why do I say that? Well, number one, Jesus claims about himself are wildly exclusive and universal.
You got that right.
You know, Jesus says he's the light of the world. He says he is the way, the truth and the life. He says he is the resurrection and the life. And the kinds of claims that Jesus makes about himself are ones that are either crazy and ridiculous and untrue, or mean that he is actually the one true Savior of the world. And you know, I'm happy to talk to
anybody who thinks that Christianity is wrong. I think that's a respectable thing to think, and I would love to sort of talk to them about why they think that and blame, why I disagree and I believe the claims of Jesus, but actually to say that Christianity can be true and Islam can be true and Hinduism can be true, etc., is ultimately less respectful to people who hold any of
these religious beliefs. Because what we're saying is, we don't take you seriously enough to take your claims on truth seriously. The other problem that we have with this idea that all religions are sort of basically saying the same thing, or they can be kind of reconciled to one another,
is the fact that Christianity depends on one specific historical claim. Now, as a follower of Jesus, I believe that Jesus died on a cross 2000 years ago and that on the third day after that, he was physically raised from the dead. So let's look at what the three great monotheistic religions say about that Judaism, Christianity, Islam. So Jews, and for that matter, Hindus and Buddhists and atheists and agnostics would say that Jesus died on a cross, but he didn't
rise from the dead. Muslims would say that Jesus actually didn't die on a cross. He just seemed to. And Christians say that Jesus died on the cross and was raised physically from the grave on the third day after that. Now we can say, you can't prove that Jesus rose from the dead. I agree, I can't prove beyond reasonable doubt that that happened, but it either happened or it didn't. So either I'm correct that Jesus rose from the dead, like walked out of his grave in bodily form on
the third day after he was brutally executed. Or I'm wrong and he didn't. But there's actually no way for both me and my Jewish friends and my Muslim friends to all be correct. Because once we say that if we say that, yes, well, it can be true for me that Jesus rose from the dead, but not true for my Jewish or atheist or agnostic friend, then we've lost our entire grip on history and everything just becomes perspective.
And so that's just a place that we don't want to land logically or rationally.
Rebecca, I'm curious because you are clearly someone who engages in deep conversations with a lot of people who believe a lot of different things. What fruit have you seen of this sort of Study and willingness to engage with people. Answer questions. What's the fruit you've seen of this in
a conversation? Maybe this is you can answer this generally or specifically of having this conversation where you're obviously well studied and equipped, but also willing to really listen and understand where other people are coming from.
Honestly, I don't think any of us want to listen to somebody who hasn't listened to us. I think it's just sort of a basic piece of of human nature that when somebody shows an interest in what I think and my life story and what I believe and why, that actually makes me feel respected as a human being, and it makes me more interested in what they might have to say about their life and their beliefs and
how they've come to them as well. And so I think one of the things, if you like me to follow Jesus, I think one of the the most powerful things that we can do is actually meaningfully listen to other people's stories. You know, perhaps you have a friend who identifies as an atheist rather than sort of going straight in with like, well, let me tell you why. I think it doesn't make any sense to be an atheist. Why not say, oh, that's really interesting. I would love
to hear how you've reached that conclusion. Maybe there'll be pieces of their life story. Perhaps they were raised in a religious tradition. They became really disillusioned with that. Perhaps they they kind of feel wistful. They wish that they could still believe in God, but they don't. Or maybe they've become angry because of some particular experience. Like, I want to know what the individual in front of me
believes and why. And then I want to be able to say to them, hey, this is why I actually think that Jesus makes the most sense of the world around us today. This is why I think that Jesus fulfills our deepest longings for justice and love and relationship. This is why I think that Jesus helps us to bring together what we know about the world from science,
with what we deeply believe about the world ethically. And this is why I think Christianity kind of makes sense not just in isolation, but actually makes sense of the world that we see around us and the lives that we live. It gives us a hope and a sense of meaning and identity and purpose that we can't actually have. If we take atheism to a sort of logical conclusion, if we look around the world consistently from an atheist perspective. And you know, I'd love to tell you more about
Jesus if you'd be interested. Yeah, I think there's an incredible openness, at least. I mean, I'll speak for where I am. I'm in Cambridge, Massachusetts, the US here, and I'm seeing more openness and opportunity to share the gospel now than I have ever seen in the 16 years that I've lived.
That's that's a big statement and.
That's so encouraging. Rebecca McLaughlin here with us today. You know, I want to kind of double up on what Ashley just said and ask you a curious question. You're obviously a great theologian scholar, apologist, but I look at the 26th chapter of acts, and I see Paul appealing to Agrippa telling his story.
He's he's.
Just.
Telling his story.
Personal story. You've heard theirs. How how does that fit into the mix with you? You must be your own storyteller at some point, rather than just saying, read my book on these 12 hot button questions here.
You must pour out your heart, right?
That's rather effective. We find in the scriptures.
Yeah, I think that's absolutely right. I write books which could be kind of categorized as apologetics, or people sort of seeking to give reasons for the hope that we have, as Peter puts it in his first letter. And I think today especially, we need to be ready to show up with our whole selves and not only with our kind of rational arguments or examples. So yeah, I'll share things in my in my books and in my speaking and my personal conversations that are like, this is where
the rubber hits the road for me. Or like, this is an experience that I had where my faith in Jesus really made a massive difference. Or here's a friend of mine who has gone from darkness to light just in the last year, and this is how she would explain how that happened for her. And I have so many friends now in Cambridge, Massachusetts, who go back, you know, one, two, three, five years and they would have checked every box for
like least likely to be interested in Christianity. You know, they're Gen Z, they identify as LGBT, they don't have any Christian background. They're interested in pagan spiritual practices or whatever it is. Like the people who you would not pick off the list is like, oh, well, this person would be interested in Jesus. And they've come to faith in Jesus. And so being able to tell some of their stories is super helpful to me.
Because.
I have the testimony that every Christian parent wants their kids to have, which is that I don't remember a time when I wasn't following Jesus. I have a very boring testimony, and I love it because, you know, that's one of the ways that the Lord uses us. But I have so many friends who have really surprising stories of faith where Jesus has kind of grabbed them in an unexpected place and and pulled them into his kingdom. And so I want to be telling their stories as well as mine.
Rebecca, we want to thank you. This has been incredibly compelling and massively encouraging. This is a book you need to get today.
Just text the word 12. Spell it out. Book's called 12 Hard Questions for the World's Largest Religion. Text 12 to 800 555 7898. Text 12 to 800 555 7898.