Coming to you from the Morning Star Mission sponsored studio. This is Carl and crew on Moody Radio.
Not to disappoint. I got my good friend, Doctor Erwin Lutzer with us here in just a couple of minutes. I want to just spike something. I'm going to I'm going to be at an event that I'm really thrilled that I get to shake your hand. Boom! Crew, give us some of the details on this young thunder. Yeah.
This is for those in our boom crew who are in the Chicagoland area. For now, we're looking at expanding this event. Yeah, we're other places.
We're getting response from Nashville. And so we may be we may be coming to Nashville.
And.
Who knows, maybe Spokane.
Yeah. But if you are in the Chicagoland area right now, this Saturday, March 1st at 9 a.m., Villa Park, it's going to be at Premium Motors right in Villa Park. And we're going to be doing a book signing on his new book, Killing Sin Conquer the One Thing That's Defeating You. We want you to know all about this. And if you want to know all about this, we've got the information for you in just one place. Just text the word book to 800 555, 78, 98. That's
book to 805, 55, 78, 98. When you click on the link we send you, make sure to check additional details on the event page. There's a little surprise there we have waiting for you. We do not want you to miss it.
Yeah, yeah, it'll be a surprise for sure. And I really extend a heartfelt thank you for you being in the crew. And if you're in Chicagoland, I'd love to see you there. Just text the word book to 800 555 78, 98. It's good to shake hands, isn't it, pastor? With folks. It really is. And it's good to be able to look them in the eye. There's one thing about speaking to a crowd, but there's nothing like speaking
to an individual like I'm speaking to you right now. Carl. Yeah, we are separated by a relatively small table and we're looking at each other. Yeah. And regarding your book, would this be a good time for me to comment on it? You certainly may. I may You're giving me permission. All right. I want to ask people a question. Why is it that so many people don't witness to the faith? A
survey was done, and you think it's. Oh, we don't know how or we don't know enough or, you know, this, that and the other thing, you know what the primary thing was? They were struggling with a sin that they could not overcome, and they felt that they did not have the integrity to represent Christ to somebody else if it didn't appear as if he was working for them. So the reason that I think that this book is so critical is instead of just talking about sin in general,
this is conquering the one thing that defeats you. And of course, you know, if we're honest, we all struggle with sin. Yes. And we all have to recognize that it is a constant battle now, Carl, what I would like to do is to say that there are two ways we fight this. One way is intellectual. That is what we know, and we apply what we know, Scripture and so forth. But the other is it's a real battle. And if you ask me what the problem with the church is today, I would say this. We're no longer
battling the world. We don't fight the culture because we are the culture. And you know what we think? We think we're free and we're bound. And so I'm so glad for your signing. The title of the book, Killing Sin, published by Moody Publishers and written by Carl Claussen. I encourage people to go, and if you can't make it, I assume, of course, that this book is available in many different ways where all fine books are sold. Yeah, yeah.
We're using it as a sheer premium for the spring shares. Oh, good. Isn't that a blessing? Yes. Right. You know what? Let's keep going here. We're not going to. We're not going to go to a song. I just want to I want to pick up and go. That was captured by a statement deep in your book, The Eclipse of God. Doctor Erwin Lutzer is my guest right now. We're broadcasting live from NB. I like to call it national relationship with the one who can set the captives free. And
the tomb is empty today. Broadcasters. That's my longer version of NB, I love it. Uh, Pastor Lutzer, there's a couple of paragraphs in here that are so good I'm going to read them. Let us never forget we represent Christ to a confused world. We must return to the teachings of Paul. When reviled, we bless. When persecuted, we endure. When slandered, we entreat, we have become and are still like the scum of the world, the refuse of all things. First Corinthians 412 to 13. Then you go on to say,
our model is Christ. When he was reviled, he did not revile in return. When he suffered, he did not threaten, but continued entrusting himself to him who judges justly. Let us your words now. Let us not react with anger, but with compassion, brokenness, and humility. It is tragic when people are swept up with obvious delusions, but for them it can appear as truth. And as we learned in the previous chapter, we must stand up for the truth, even as we are compassionate toward those who have been
caught up by lies. That's the thing, isn't it? You know, I love to share because it's a tragedy when we become angry evangelicals. How do we live in this tension of standing for truth without being mean? Well, one thing we could do to help ourselves is stay off of social media. Yeah, there's so much. I mean, I could give illustration after illustration where there is a lot of vengeance, and vengeance is perfectly acceptable as long as it is called a quest for justice, and as long as it
makes headlines in some circles. Give us an example of that. No, I don't want to. Oh, really? It will draw people to the very example that I give. Ah, because I see this because of I, because there are people out there who want to blog and you know that you can't do that unless you have a sensational headline and a sensational story. And so what's happening is oftentimes we
are undercutting each other. Now, I do think that there's a place for discernment, and sometimes false doctrines have to be exposed, but we just can't keep shooting at ourselves the way in which we are. We're a circular firing squad. And yeah, that's wise. Let's not give fuel to that feud. Yeah, right to that anger. Yeah. And how much? Paul's clear. We need to leave room for God's vengeance when we
take it on. That can be dangerous territory. You know, I'm not saying that people shouldn't seek justice for certain situations. And certainly we see that where there's been abuse and so forth. All that may be legitimate, but we're living at a time when nobody wants to leave anything up for Jesus to judge. Yeah, we will judge ourselves, and we will make sure that whoever has said the wrong thing, the wrong sound bite, or this, we'll make sure that
we judge them well. We should, you know, the Bible. Hey, by the way, I wrote a book entitled Who Are You to Judge? Learning to distinguish between truths and half truths and lies. I didn't expect to give a commercial for it, but it just came to mind. So yes, we judge, but my we do so carefully. Yeah, because we are playing with forked lightning if we slander somebody or misrepresent them. And so it has to be done. But it has to be done with brokenness and humility.
And how do we exercise judgment without being judgmental as a hallmark of who we are? I think the judgmental people are usually people with a lot of self-righteousness and pride. So you may have a person who's doing it right and a person who's doing it in the wrong way. They may actually agree that this is an issue that needs to be exposed. It's the attitude. Are we approaching this with a sense of humility and saying, boy, I'd better get this right because I don't want to slander
A brother or sister? Or are we doing it with a sense of self-righteousness that we make sure that we are, of course, above the fray? There's no possibility that we could be wrong about anything. And so the question is, I think a lot of it has to do Carl with attitude. Yeah, I want to get into that a little bit more. So coming up in a couple of minutes, because we live in a day to day that is so polarized. Have you ever seen it more polarized? No,
I don't think so politically. Of course, racially and in every other way, people have staked out their claim and we are all taking our positions and making sure that we are right about everything. Blessed are the peacemakers, not the peacekeepers. The UN has a hard time keeping peace, but we're called to be peacemakers. Coming up in a few minutes. Dear friend, Doctor Erwin Lutzer here with me in Texas. National religious broadcasters. And we're going to talk
about that. I know as you're listening right now, rancor can fill your mind. And sometimes you just think, I've got to say something. Possibly. But how you do that will either be peace makers or peace wreckers. The former is the better. How do we do that? Coming up.
It's Carl and crew on Moody Radio.
Broadcasting live from NTB. We've got some folks in the audience here. We got some Erwin Lutzer fans out there, don't we, this morning? Yes we do. Doctor Erwin Lutzer is with me right now. Most recent book. I guess it's the most recent, The Eclipse of God. Yes. Um, but let's I want to go back to the words of Jesus. Blessed are the peacemakers, not the peacekeepers. Peacemakers. That's an effort, isn't it, pastor? It really is. And we have forgotten, as I may have mentioned in the
last segment, that the Christian life is a fight. What we have decided to do is we've asked ourselves the question, how much can we be like the world and still be a witness? And actually, we've lost our witness sometimes. And yet there are those who want to separate in a legalistic way, and it doesn't affect their heart. So what we need to do. But if I might just
make a comment about the eclipse of God. Yes, Carl, Americans don't mind saying that they believe in God, just as long as they get to choose the God in whom they believe. And what you find today is there are people who say, oh, I'm into spirituality, but I don't believe in anything specific. I have a chapter on that in the book, and one of the things that I show is that God turns out to be their own consciousness. Yeah. And one of the problems that we
have is understanding the biblical God. Now, in the Old Testament, people were stoned, of course, and you have the killing of the Canaanites. And this is all based on an article that was in The Economist that says nobody believes in the mighty almighty of the Old Testament, and it says God is becoming more liberal. He's agreeing with us
about everything. And it even had the nerve to say, instead of saying, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven, we should pray thy word, thy will be done in heaven, as we are doing on earth. Oh my word, can you believe that? Oh my word. So to write those words. Yes. And so the online article was nearer my God, to me. In other words, he's becoming like I am. Well, I'm answering that, but I'm also answering the question, why don't we stone people today?
And one of the longest chapters is, Is God more tolerant than he used to be? I mean, Old Testament. I mean, is it safer to sin in the New Testament than it was in the old in the Old Testament. Of course, they frequently dealt with sin in a very different way. So how do we navigate that? So this is a defense of the biblical God and what my burden is. We have to get back to God as he is. As a matter of fact, the last chapter is entitled Getting Back to the God of Wrath and Grace,
not the God of Unconditional love. Everybody thinks you know God loves everybody unconditionally. Well then you are really canceling the wrath of God against sinners. So in the midst of this, what I try to do, Carl, is to show the amazing grace of God. And we don't understand grace until we understand sin, until we understand the wrath of God. It is then that grace becomes truly amazing because to use a quote, grace is not sweet until
sin becomes bitter. And what we've done in society is we've told people to believe on Jesus, which of course is wonderful, but they're not sure exactly why. Yeah, because they are not convicted of their sin. So on the one hand, we have to preach hard truths. As a matter of fact, I didn't say this, but somebody else did. I kind of liked it. It says it is better to be slapped with truth than to be kissed with lies. Yeah. So what we have to do is to tell the truth.
But it has to be preached with a sense of brokenness, recognizing our own sinfulness and cleaving to the wonder of God's grace. Now, in the midst of this, I have a chapter. Well, we could go on about truth. You know, I try to explain and help parents to understand why is it that when I send my child to university, he comes back thinking differently than I do? Yes, he sure does. But could it be that syncretism has crept
into this, quote, evangelical system. Barna came out with a report here the end of January, forecasting what he sees in 25. And with 4% of Americans only 4%, having a biblical worldview. He says, we have in the church what we consider to be strong evangelical people. We've got a syncretism where we've almost got a mish mash of American Dream, as it were, kind of overlayered onto God's vision for our life. How do we separate those out where we get down to the core essence of God's grace,
his mercy, his sovereignty, his plan for us? No matter what our political alliances are, we have to explain to people we do not kiss the, um, the Democratic. What is it? The, uh, the Democratic donkey or the Republican elephant? Politics is very important. You could have me on the show sometime talking about that, but we must always see Christ above that. And we must proclaim Christ to Democrats, to Republicans, to. And both of them are going to
hell unless they believe on Christ. So what we need to do is to keep that priority and then recognize that these other issues are important. But they are not all important. They are not consumingly important. And we heard this last night, actually from Jack Hibbs. There are more people who are excited about the last election than they are excited about Jesus. That's a problem. And the triumph
of Jesus eventually over the nations, over sin and so forth. So, boy, keeping all that balanced in the midst of such loud voices and screaming on both sides of the issue. But we need to do is to look at it and to say, we still recognize that God reigns. One quick illustration, and I know that time goes so fast on this program. When Isaiah was had his vision in Isaiah six, you will recall that in the year, in the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord. Yea, Uzziah was
a king. I think he reigned for about 52 years, a pretty good king. And now suddenly the throne of Israel was empty. And lo, I saw the Lord high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple. What God was saying is, Isaiah the throne of Israel is empty, but the throne in heaven is very well occupied. And when we see the topsy turvy and of course we know the election went one way, there could be a
pendulum swing next time to go the other way. When we see all this, what we have to do is to keep our bearing and remember that ultimately God does rule. And so we keep going. We keep doing it. Now here's another illustration that comes to mind that is related to what you've said, though perhaps not directly speaking of false prophets within the church, in the book The Eclipse of God, I have the story of Hitler who had
a marvelous idea. It was this that what you do is you take dead allied soldiers, take their uniforms, put them on German soldiers, and then the Germans could go behind the lines. And so all kinds of discord and false rumors and so forth. It didn't work too well because the Germans still had a German accent. But isn't that brilliant? Yeah, false prophets wear the uniform of Christianity,
but they're actually working for the other side. And we certainly see that today in some churches where there has been a total concession to the culture? Yes. Whether it has to do with, you know, sexuality and so forth. A total concession to the culture. And yet God is calling us to remain firm, but to do so recognizing that the people who we oppose are really captive, oftentimes to Satan, we have to see them as captives, not just as enemies. Jesus said, love your enemies. That's pretty
hard to do, but that's our calling. It all comes back to the grace of God, God's power to do in us what we can't do in ourselves. How does a person today who's has a confession in their heart that says, I've been held captive by a political victory? I've been held captive by a fight. I'm winning at work. How do we Deconstruct anger. You mean a fight that you're losing at work could be winning or losing? You're
in the fight and it's the wrong battle. In the morning, when you get out of bed, spend enough time with God until your heart is at rest. Amen. There's no easy answer. There's no quick fix, you know. And what you have to do is to realize that the battle is going to be won in your heart. Yeah. And when you recognize that God is in charge, you begin to relax and you begin to say, no matter which way this wind blows, I'm going to accept it. Not from the hand of man, but from the hand of God.
Pastor Lutzer, his most recent book, The Eclipse of God. Wonderful work, thorough, and one that will, I think, put something below the waterline in your life. It's the unseen things that matter most. It is. It always is. I want you to text the word win. This will give you a link to all of Pastor Lutzer resources. The eclipse of God. One of them text win to our number here 800 555 7898. Win to 800 555 7898.
Pastor thank you this morning. Thanks, Carl. Incredible time. Text win to our number 805 5578 98.
She's a choreographer extraordinaire and everything is Greek to her. Super die is in the crew. It's Carl and crew on Moody Radio.
Broadcasting live from Dallas, Texas. National religious broadcasters. A big event here, and we've got the opportunity to connect with some incredible people. And boy, have we got a fine young lady right now.
Lana Silk with Transform Iran or the chief executive officer here in the U.S.. Iran is one of the world's most hostile countries to the gospel. But you're seeing the church grow rapidly. I feel like I've heard that story before. Tell us a little bit about what's going on. Yes.
Ali, thank you for having me. The church in Iran is thriving. It's thriving. It's growing, it's strong. There are, of course, um, battles with discouragement. But when they see the way God is moving, it constantly stirs them on for more. And it's exciting to be part of it.
Give us a story, Lana.
So we were just talking earlier about God's supernatural work in Iran, weren't we? He is constantly working through that country, and you know, God is doing his own thing. He is wooing people to himself, and he is so generous in allowing us to partner with him. But he can do it without us. Yeah. So here's an example. This is one of our pastors now in our churches. She was part of a muslim family. She was forced into marriage at 12. She had three kids through her teens.
And then around her 20th birthday, her husband, her brother and her father were murdered by the government. She's part of an ethnic minority group in Iran, where there's some political activities which led to their death. So she took that as a sign that she wasn't a good enough Muslim and decided to really press hard into her Islamic faith. She was praying more, fasting more wanting to please Allah better so that kind of judgment would fall on her again.
And as she began doing that, Jesus began appearing to her. So he would stand in the doorway in her room and put his arm out to her and say, trust me, come and follow me. Or he would appear to her in a dream and he would take her flying on these adventures that she described to me and saying, you know, I, I, I'm trustworthy, you can follow me. And it would just continue. And then she started to notice that when she was praying her Islamic prayers, when she would go to say Muhammad,
the word Jesus would come out by accident. And so she would catch herself and think, wow, I need to redo this. This is wrong. Try to pray again and again, involuntarily. Instead of Muhammad, she would say Jesus. So over the period of time as this is happening. Of course, we know the power of the name of Jesus. He began to really touch her heart and she ended up giving her life to him. But now it's dangerous for her. She's in a muslim family, and they're very strong in
their faith, and they're not. It wouldn't be good for her if they knew.
Has has she? Oh, so they don't know.
They don't know if they know, they would likely turn her in or kill her themselves. So she describes a period of time when she tried to keep it hidden. She would go hide in the bathroom and read her Bible there. That was the only place where she could have a little bit of privacy because, you know, in, in Iran, the the male nearest male relative effectively owns the woman. So now her husband is dead. Her father
is dead. That means her husband's family take authority over her and her children, and she's probably living with them, and she has them in and out of her life constantly. She's got to be careful. But you know, when Jesus transforms your life, it's hard to hide it. Wow.
Talk a little bit about the the Ministry of Transform Iran and your commitment to it.
Yes. Well, the ministry is about reaching our country, reaching our country with Jesus's love and power, up and down the country. The men, the women, the children, the illiterate, the educated women like this lady whose story I'm telling you.
Why is this such a passion point for you?
Well, I was born and raised in Iran. I love Iran, that's my country. That's my home. Eventually I'll get to go back and see it again. And I. You know, God loves Iran even more than me. I think we only have a glimpse of his passion for the things that he puts on our heart. And I live for that.
When we come back, Lana, we want to talk about how widespread is the underground church and how does it even operate and what is the what are the faith stories you're getting out of there? We'll get that straight ahead.
This is Curling Crew on Moody Radio.
We're broadcasting live from the National Religious Broadcasters Convention this week. We've got special guest Lana Silk with us right now with Transform Iran. born and raised in Iran before emigrating to the UK. The growth of the church in Iran has been unbelievable. Tell us a little bit about the the the information that you do have about the numbers and just how accelerated it's been.
Yes, well, before the revolution in 79, we think there were maybe three, 4 or 500 at the most Muslim background believers in Iran. A few years ago, a research organization in Holland did some extensive research to try to ascertain the numbers. They think it was well over a million at that point. So and people were saying Iran is the fastest growing church in the world. So if we're if that is the case, we're probably one and a half, maybe closer to two. And that's just in the last 50 years.
How does the church grow? I mean, how does it you don't you don't set up rent a building on the corner and hey, put up the sign.
Flyers.
Flyers. No. That's right. You know, the church grows in the way. It probably should. Yeah. Through the lives of people who are transformed by God's love and who are themselves bursting with Jesus in their life and want to tell people. Other people then get saved. And it sort of it's fruitful, you know, in the way that I guess it should be.
What are so those stories where someone is now transformed by the power of God, they're living as light, they're bearing fruit. Somebody sees it, they ask him a question. Now you got a choice. Yes. Do I tell them who's buttering my bread? You know what I'm saying?
Exactly right. You know, they are so courageous and so inspiring in the way they are excited for those opportunities to bring Jesus to the people around them. And bear in mind, Iran is a country of people who are really under trauma, like just the oppression, the brutality of their government. So, you know, when you love a people group and you see that they are hurting, you know, you have the answer for their problems, you can't help but share it, even if it's going to cost you.
What can the American church learn from the church in Iran?
That's a great question. I think all of us who live in a free context can be inspired by the passion, the zeal, the sold out nature of the faith, the people who live in countries like Iran. When we live in a free world, it's very easy to get comfortable, to pick and choose, become a consumer really of our faith. You know which church is more fun? Which worship do I like more? Which Bible do I want to pick
up or put down? When you're in a context where you're persecuted, all of those sort of extras go away, then it's all in, sold out, whatever it takes.
How are you getting resources to the underground church? How are we getting Bibles? I mean, how does that work?
There are ways to take physical things in, and we have our secret ways, which we do. But most of it honestly is digital. Digital media is very powerful and effective. It's good quality and it's easier to hide. So we use satellite TV, radio, social media, but we also have an app where people can download Bibles, discipleship materials. So that's probably the most predominant way.
So let's say there's a million and a half followers of Jesus in Iran. How many of those have a physical Bible or even risk that? I mean, that's a huge risk, isn't it, to have a Bible in your on your person?
It is. It is a risk. Um, it wouldn't be the majority. I would I would love to know myself, but I would guess it would be less than half that would have a physical Bible.
This is an awe inspiring. You know, it's the Spirit of God has hit me with is the children. Yeah. What are the stories about the children? I feel like I need to ask you that. Yeah.
You know what? I think that might have been the Holy Spirit prompting you that the children are really high on our focus this year. We've been thinking a lot about how do we empower and strengthen the Christian children first? Imagine the context in which you have an Islamic education. You can't tell your schoolteachers you're a Christian. Your whole family would be outed. You have to play this game
of being a muslim. You're being forced to study the Quran, to recite the namaz, and all of that is going on at school. Then you go home and the same people. Moses, Abraham, Noah, have a different story and a different truth that you are presented with at home. So that's a struggle. Imagine a five, six, seven year old having to navigate that. So we're putting a lot of resources together now in helping the children just get strengthened in their faith and then through them reach their friends.
I mean imagine our kids having to go somewhat incognito. Yeah. And yet they're growing up in their relationship with Jesus. They see it in their mom and dad. Yeah, they see it in the underground church. Are they meeting house to house? Do they gather together? Yes.
House to house in small numbers. And as they grow, which they do, then we encourage them to split up, to keep the numbers small so they're not detected so easily.
Some of you wonder right now or have wondered, oh, what's going on with those people? And you've heard some stories here today. You think about those children, and I want that to be an impetus for you to say, I want to grab a link. I want to help. This is a tangible way. Talk about return on investment. My goodness.
The ministry is transforming Iran. Just text transform to 800 555 7898. We'll get you a link to their website. Text transform to (800) 555-7898.
Lon. I want to thank you. I feel prompted to pray right now.
Thank you, I appreciate that.
Father, in Jesus name, we thank you for our brothers and sisters in Iran and the children right now. Lord, we pray your protection over them and we thank you for their witness. I pray, Lord, that you would provide for them in every way that they're crying out for, and even surprise them today as we pray with your abundant grace, which is so rich and I give you praise today in Jesus name, Amen. And as we pray, the Spirit of God goes to work and you might
be prompted to join in to this effort. I want to encourage you to do it right now.
Text transform to 800 555 7898. Just text that one word. Transform to 800 555, 7898. Get the link. Click it. Use it as the Lord leads.
Yeah. Lana. Thank you, thank you. You're an inspiration. Thank you.
Appreciate it.
He's a sports fanatic with a stat for anything you can think of. Young Thunder is in the crew. It's curling crew one moody radio.
Okay, we need some prayers. We're we're we're needing to partner with you. And if you can carve out 30 minutes during share, and there's a huge roster to pick from starting Tuesday. Uh, week from Tuesday, week from Tuesday. We've got like seven hours every day Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and then a couple hours on Saturday that we'd love for you to get a half an hour slot and pray with nine other people. If you've got really the gift and the time for prayer, I want you to
get more than one slot. Come and grab them. And what do we have left to die? About 400 slots left. 300. Uh, almost about 480. Oh, we got a long way to go. Okay, we started with 600. We got 480. Okay. The time is now. The time is now.
So you grab a 30 minute slot and scroll all the way down. You do not have to fill them in order. You pick a 30 minute slot that works for you, and then you pick the location. You do not have to come to Chicago. If you live outside of Chicago. You come and you go to wherever you want to be. You want a prayer walk. You want a prayer drive. You want to be in your closet. You pick the place. You pick the time. We're so grateful.
We'll send you some prayer points, some behind the scenes sort of updates so you have a good sense of what to pray for. Text crew to 800 555 7898. Just text crew to 800 555 7898.
Okay, we're at a point right now. We need to call all all prayers. We're just asking you. Come on, let's go, let's go. So Ali said it. Text crew to 805 five five, 7898. I got to get that boiler room filled with prayer.
Do we need Jonathan to call the prayers?
Yeah. Do it. If he's asking for it. Yeah.
Right now. All right. For those of you who are in meetings in this room, I apologize, but let's do it. Let's call those prayers. Come on.
Sir. Sir. Come on. Prayers. Time to pray, sir. That's it. That's how we call him. That's what we needed. It's just what needed to happen. The best part about that is that Ali asked for it.
I know that was the shocking part.
I don't know where that came from. Look at em. They're coming in right now. There they go. Text Cru to 805 five five, 78, 98. And here's the promise I'm going to make you. We're going to have we're going to have Young Thunder on one of those updates. One of those mornings. We're going to have him thank the prayers with the sewee. Northwest Arkansas Razorbacks call. Okay. That's what we're going to do. Sounds good to me. Okay. Are you just red in the face because it expended a lot of energy? Huh?
Well, no, I don't usually.
Do it in front of a crowd. I'm sorry. Jonathan. That's okay.
I do it on the radio, so I shouldn't be embarrassed.
More embarrassed. Look at him. He's blushing. Bless his heart. Bad people in this room with us. Yeah. Oh, I don't know. Oh. It's fun. Oh.
A basketball mom who's mastered the dad joke. Ali is in the crew. It's Karl and crew on Moody Radio.
And crew broadcasting live from NB. Looks like everybody's tucked in.
Where's everybody.
At? Hey, where's everybody at? Yeah, that's you guys faking it? Like we got a big studio audience here today.
Yeah, they're all sleeping right now.
Man, that was pretty weak. Two young thunder. You can give us a little more mustard than that this time around.
Hey, that was spontaneous. I'm trying to be honest and just letting people know how many people are in the room.
The room is a little empty in this early hour.
But it'll fill up. It's great. We've got a great guest with us here. Here's the topic we want to tackle. This is so important. My goodness, we live in this digital age. And how are we going to reach people. And the the sky's the limit when you got an uptick of Bible sales 2024. We've been saying this a lot only because it's such great news. 22% uptick of Bible sales. Incredible. Come on. All right, Jonathan Griffiths, let's go. How are we going to reach people I want answers, I want them now.
Well, I don't know that I got all the answers, but we got huge opportunities before us, don't we? Because the digital age opens up so many doors of opportunity to get good Bible content into people's hearts and minds. And that's that's a wonderful thing. But it's also a jungle out there. And as as those who are receiving and imbibing Bible content, we need to learn some discernment. And we need to be really careful, don't we? Because we can access so much, but we can access the
good and the bad. Yeah, and there's just a huge need for all of us who are hungry for the Word of God to be learning that discernment between the good and the bad. And I think we learned that, first of all, in the local church, you know, each of us, as we grow in Christ, we need to be really well grounded in a local church.
Boom, brother.
Don't we? I mean, yes, yes, where we are. Where we are being taught to understand the scriptures and to discern between true and false and good and evil. And if we are only independent consumers of content, and we're not embedded in the life of the local church, we're going to we're going to go astray and we're going to be led astray. So I think that's I think that's number one. I think that's absolutely crucial. And I'd
love to give that encouragement to anyone listening today. If you don't have a local church where you are grounded, where you are involved, where you have accountability, where you have people feeding into your life and you're feeding into other lives, you're going to be impoverished.
Find it. Yeah.
Jonathan Griffiths, our guest this morning. He serves as lead pastor of the Metropolitan Bible Church in Ottawa, Canada. He sits on the Council of the Gospel Coalition. Canada gives leadership to the Timothy trust exists to promote expository Bible ministry. There is no shortage of, as you mentioned, biblical content available.
You can go on TikTok or Instagram and you can get in 15 seconds of somebody telling you something about the Bible, but I imagine you have a thought or two as to why that can be good and bad.
Well, it can be good and bad, and there's good, bad and everything else in between out there in the Christian media marketplace. I mean, one of my great passions is training up the next generation of gospel workers. Right on. And, you know, for for those, um, to lead in the church, to do that well and faithfully, they need to be grounded in the truth themselves. And and that takes some
time of study and that takes some education. And I know in the world of Moody Global Media, I'm talking to the choir here because there's there's a commitment here to training up gospel workers for the global church. But
we really need that. And and one of the things that's really changed, even post-Covid, just in the last five years or so, is that the whole world of seminary education has been just turned on its head because we're we're wanting to be able to access education and substance, you know, from our living room without having to go anywhere.
And so there's been a huge movement away from people, you know, saying, I'm going to take 3 or 4 years, I'm going to go to seminary, I'm going to move my family there, and I'm going to have a time
of study and get really grounded. That's all changed. And I think all of us involved in Christian education and Christian leadership need to really be thinking about how we enable people to access good education so they can step into Christian leadership and do that in some flexible ways, because the world's really changed and models of education have been transformed.
You know, I got a passion for something because I'm a churchman at heart. That's my first and primary passion. What would it look like if Bible college seminaries got way more proactive, partnering with the local church, almost making those extensions? So here's what I want to do coming up in a few minutes. Let's explore that a little bit. I'd love to. Um, and just what would it look like if fill in the blank? We began to partner with churches in a way that puts the almost the onus.
Responsibility and authority puts the big hat back on the local church, so to speak. It's it's let's kick that around. That's coming up in just a couple of minutes. Jonathan Griffiths here. He's from way up there. Cold country. Ottawa, Canada. Ottawa, Canada.
Hang on it's Carl and crew on Moody Radio.
Equip the Saints to do the work of ministry. How do we do it? Got some crazy thoughts on this one this morning.
Jonathan Griffiths with us right now. He's from Encounter the Truth, also the lead pastor of the Metropolitan Bible Church in Ottawa, Canada. You have a keen interest in this, Carl set up just before the break. The seminary, the role of seminary has changed the local church. We want to bring those two together more so that we're not losing people for four years as they disappear and go get trained and are away from the local church. How can we bridge that gap a little bit more.
Well, I think there's been a really positive move. And somehow I think Covid sparked this for local churches to say, you know, we really want to get back involved in the in the training of our next generation of leaders. And I think as some people maybe, you know, weren't able to go away to seminary and have in-person training in the depths of Covid, the churches started to notice, hey, we love having our young people around, the people who
are in training. We love having them here within the local church, serving within the local church while they're studying, and some of them doing that online and so on.
And I think that's sparking some really big conversations between churches and denominations and seminaries about how we maybe envisage theological education keeping our our promising young people involved in the life of the local church while they're training, while they're studying so that they can be mentored by their pastors and their elders within their fellowship so they can actually be engaging in ministry, not not just having an
ivory tower experience, but engaging in ministry all the time while they're training, and I think these conversations are great. I don't think we know where the dust is going to settle on seminary education for the next generation. But but the world is changing.
Yeah, it's changing quickly. Um, worldview. 4% of Americans have a biblical worldview. I'm sure that's not much different in Canada. It's probably.
Lower.
Probably a little bit lower. Thanks for saying that. Um, it's so the worldview, though, there's four huge anchors of a worldview. Sovereignty of God, lostness of man. Regenerating power of Christ through the Holy Spirit and the sanctification process. When you get those four anchors in your soul, you can go somewhere. Yeah, it seems to me wondering if I'm under leveraging. So, I mean, I got a moody prof, one of our elders, and I've got one of the
greatest Greek minds. He's my right hand man. But the weird thing about even getting worldview, it seems. It feels like it's taking us away from reaching people, but really, it's almost a delayed gratification if we can get embedded in our leaders. A biblical worldview, and that gets a boiler going in. What do you think about that?
Oh, absolutely. But the way in which we shape biblical worldview is through just immersing ourselves in the word, in the Word of God, and being really grounded in the word. Yes. And I think one of the things we need to do unashamedly and come back to this in an unashamed way is, is to focus our education of young people who are preparing for ministry, to focus their education in the Word of God, to get them really grounded in Scripture. Because, you know, the Word of God is, is is the
power of God for life transformation. And we need people whose minds are so shaped by Scripture that their whole view of reality is shaped by Scripture. Yes. And and I think we need to come back to a real focus of get people into the word, get them grounded in the word so that they are mighty in the scriptures and able to teach the scriptures. Yeah, And I want that simplicity to shape our Christian education. Really, at every level.
You pastor in Canada, you are part of the Timothy Trust, which is all about the revitalization of the church in Canada. You mentioned you think in Canada, biblical worldview might even be lower than here in the States. What would you say are the unique challenges that you're seeing from your vantage point? Maybe that we're not even seeing.
Well, you know, Canada and the United States share a lot in common historically and culturally, of course, but there there has been a faster movement away from our biblical moorings in Canada overall than there has in the United States. I mean, we're on the same trajectory, but I think it's been a little bit, a little bit quicker.
You're a little European. We're a.
Little European. We're a few years ahead. I mean, you're the United States is heading in the same direction, but we tend to get to some of the key markers a little bit quicker. That's been true historically with massive social change over the last 50 years. Each each negative step. Canada's been a few steps ahead of the United States. There are various reasons for that. You know, our church where I serve is on the border of Ontario and Quebec.
So Quebec being French Canada, Quebec is the least reached region in the Americas. North south central Caribbean. Wow. With, you know, 2 or 3% evangelical Christian in Quebec. That's the that's the lowest you'll find anywhere in the Americas. And part of the history of that actually has been a very negative reaction in Quebec against a historically very repressive Roman Catholicism. That's just Quebec French history, but that
has shaped our our region of Canada. There's a very strong, anti-Christian, very strong secularizing cultural move in that part of the world. And and you see that then represented in, in our politics and in the social direction of the country. So that's been a little bit of a unique factor in Canada that I think has moved things on a little bit more quickly. But but what I want to say is, despite all that, the reality on the ground in the
churches is we're seeing people coming to Christ. That's what I was wondering. We're seeing young people. We're seeing young men come to Christ. It's really fascinating and loving expository Bible teaching, like teaching through books of the Bible, chapter by chapter, verse by verse. They're hungry for that. Our young adults group seem to be the hungriest for it. So we've got we've got hundreds of, you know, college
aged students and young professionals coming to our church. And I tell you, if I gave up doing expository Bible teaching on a Sunday morning and I went all kind of light and fluffy and, and did kind of randomized topical teaching that wasn't grounded in the text, they would first complain and then they would leave. Wow. My my my my young adults.
Awesome. That is that's encouraging. Yeah. Yeah.
I love that.
You know, we've we've seen that. Um, we're seeing that in Chicago. Are you? Yeah, we're seeing that. It's really a bizarre thing, but I'm seeing the greatest hunger for the word of God in our downtown campus, 30, 40 of these young professionals, and they just they want the word. They're filling small groups. It's wonderful. They're busting open the word. They've got the word of God open constantly. Yeah. So we better make hay while the sun is shining, baby. You know what I mean?
I think so. I think the Spirit of God is doing something. I think that there is a reaction against just the ridiculousness of what's going on in culture. I think I think young people are looking out at the cultural landscape and.
Saying, this ain't working.
This ain't working, this is empty. What is something solid upon which I can build my life? Yeah. And. And there's a hunger for the word of God. And people are coming to Christ. So we rejoice in that.
Yeah. Guys, can we just stop for a moment and say, Praise God?
Praise the Lord. Yeah.
Praise God. And what's wild about this is there seems to be this threshold. So things devolve, devolve, devolve. And then there's this little group that goes, this is crazy. Where's truth? Yeah. Where's absolute truth? Here?
Exactly.
And then that could be the beginnings of a bit of an awakening. And how cool would that be? That always comes through the students. It always comes through a youth movement.
Often, and through the preaching of the Word of God. I mean, historically in church history, revival is sparked through the open proclamation of the Word of God, and the Lord uses that. And I mean, I'm daring to hope that we might see something of a revival in our generation. I mean, wouldn't that be wonderful?
Oh, are you kidding me, man? God, please bring it on. All right, listen, you're listening to Guy going, who is this guy? We got a link for you.
Just text local. Jonathan Griffiths, our guest. He is all about the local church. As you heard his heart. Text local to 800 555 7898. Local to 805 five five 7898.
Jonathan, I love you, man. Your heart for the Lord. Your clarity of communication. It's inspiring. Thank you for being with us today.
So great to be with you both. Thanks for having me. Yeah.
What a joy. Grateful. Aren't we guys? Yes. Very much. Goodness, man. This will put fuel in your belly. What a way.
To start the.
Morning. What a way. Good morning. Boom! Crew helping you take your next step with Jesus.
You can take him out of Alaska, but you can't take Alaska out of him. Carl is in the crew. It's Carl and crew on Moody Radio.
Well, we get the call of God on our life is to go and reach. But Jesus did something really practical. He cared for the practical needs of people. You know, when I turn on my water system at home, it's great water. Got one of those home filtration systems. But the amount of people around the globe today that are just walking great distances, just to get a drink of water that isn't going to infect them with something staggering. The numbers are off the chart. What are those numbers, Chris?
Do you have any idea what in the world is going on with water around the world?
Yeah, there's 785 85 million people around the world that don't have access to something that most of us have taken for granted for most of our lives.
Big number.
So there's 331 million people in the US, so more than twice the population of the United States doesn't have access to clean, safe drinking water.
We've got Christopher Bethe, founder of the Bucket Ministry, joining us right now. You got to tell this story, though. You this started for you. This was not something you were interested in. You were not interested in missions. You weren't even particularly strong in your faith. I've heard your story. So I know that you've told this before. But tell us about how this whole thing got started. You got roped into chaperoning a mission trip with your daughter.
Went reluctantly. Oh, this is good.
In 2012, my daughter came home from high school and said she wanted to go on this mission trip to the Brazilian Amazon. And, I mean, she'd been to South Texas before, but we thought it was a little bit further. So my wife and I said, hey, listen, if you're going to go on this trip, you got to raise all the money. So this was a reverse psychology move at this point. So a couple of weeks went by and sure enough, she raised 3500 bucks. So then we decided if she's going to go, one of us has
to go with her. Yeah. And that became my job. And my only job, though, was to bring her home. I didn't go there because I had a love or compassion for the Brazilian people. I didn't go there because I thought I wanted to be the hands and feet of Jesus. I just went there to bring my kid home, and the things that I saw changed me at a core level. And really, um, God showed me why he had created me.
What did he do in your heart?
Well, uh, I saw things that I could not reconcile. I saw things that I never thought was possible prior to this. I didn't even know there was a world water crisis. I mean, I lived, like most of us live. If I was thirsty, I went to my refrigerator, put a cup underneath the filter and got a glass of water, or I bought a bottle of water. I never even thought people had to drink out of a lake, river,
stream or anything like that. So when I saw that for the first time, I was crushed and I thought, with everything we have in the world, how is it even possible that people are drinking out of a river today and thinking that's normal? That was probably the biggest tragedy for me, is they thought that was normal. They thought that being sick all the time was normal. They thought that not naming their children for the first two years of the child's life, because they weren't sure the
child was going to survive, was normal. So while I was in a house in the Amazon, a Brazilian woman asked me, are you thirsty? And I'm just this giant, sweaty American, right? And she she looks at me, she sees I'm sweaty. She says, are you thirsty? And I'm like, yeah, I'm thirsty. But I'm looking around her home and there's no refrigerator, there's no water cooler. So I'm thinking, where's she going to get this water from? She takes two
cups from her kitchen. They were mismatched and they were cracked. And she goes out into this little dock area on the side of the river, bends down in the river and grabs two cups of water. And I'm standing in the doorway thinking, what is this crazy woman doing? I am not going to drink that. But sure enough, she comes and hands one cup to me.
Oh boy.
One cup to my interpreter. So now I have this decision. Yeah. Do I drink this because I just told her how thirsty I was. But if I don't, she's going to think I'm rude. So as I'm pondering this decision, my interpreter is wagging his finger. Don't do that. Do it. But now I realize the gravity of this. She thinks this is normal. Then, as I'm holding this, I heard something I'd never heard before, and I had at this point. I had only been walking with Jesus for about 3
or 4 years. Didn't even really fully understand my own relationship with Christ yet. But as I'm holding this glass of water and there's things swimming in it, I heard something I'd never heard before. And prior to this day, if someone would have told me, hey, I got a word from God today, or God gave me some instruction today, you would have.
Thought, that's kind of loopy.
Yeah, I was skeptical. And if I'm just being completely honest, I would have thought really? He stopped his day to have a conversation with you. But as I'm holding this glass of dirty water, I heard two words and he said, help them. But it came with no other instruction. I didn't know what help them meant. Am I supposed to give these people 20 bucks? Am I supposed to repair their boat? Am I supposed to cook them dinner? I
don't know what help them means. So that trip in the Amazon is where God showed me why he had created me.
Wow, you're a storyteller. You know what you are? You're a guy that got hit deeply at a heart level by the Spirit of God. Amen. And you got a story to tell. Amen. Coming up. Where did it go from there? And what's happening today? Chris is with us. Just another follower of Jesus, dude, who God's working in his life. Hang on.
Your shot of hope to help you through the day. This is Carl and crew on Moody Radio.
He was somewhere in the middle of the Amazon and he heard the words help them. That was the heart behind this ministry, the bucket ministry. What do you do with that? You said you didn't didn't come with instructions. The Lord didn't say how you were going to help them. So the first step was to discern. What do I do? They don't have access to clean water. But how could I possibly be involved in helping solve this?
Yeah. You know, at the end of the day, I'm just an ordinary guy. I was a business guy. I really had no training in ministry. I had very little relationship, even with the church. At that point, I hadn't even been discipled. So we got home from that trip and just started researching the world water crisis. Tried to find out just how big the problem really is. At the end of the day, everywhere I searched, water was just such a major issue. And there's really two spaces within water.
There's access to water, and then there's access to clean, safe drinking water. And, um, two really different issues. so started looking at what could be a solution in the Amazon basin. And we researched a variety of filters. We bought a variety of filters, tried to find a tool that would work, and finally my family and I were
at Rei. It's a camping supply store here in Dallas, and I was in the water filter aisle for camping, and I stumbled across this filter by a company out of Tampa called Sawyer Products that attaches to a bucket and uses the gravity of water in the bucket to force that water through the filter. The filter captures all the debris, all the contaminants, and then yields 350 to 500 gallons per day of clean, safe drinking water. So I thought, man, this is portable. This is simple. It
doesn't require an engineer to operate it. And I think I could teach a seven year old or a 97 year old how to use this tool. So we we bought about 80 of these filters and went back to the Amazon the next year. But again, in the beginning I only thought this was water. I didn't even understand the connection to the gospel. So we're in the Amazon, we're distributing 80 filters and I get done. I feel really good about myself and I thought this is what
helped them. And then this Brazilian man comes up to me and he says, can you tell me how you got here? And I made a joke. And I said, well, that boat, that's how I got here. He's like, no, no, no. Of all the villages in the Amazon, how did you come to ours? I'm thinking, wow, that's a deep question. Uh, and I said, well, I'm a follower of Jesus Christ. And we thought that we should bring you this gift. And the next thing he said changed everything for us
and me personally. And this man says, who is this Jesus? So at this point.
You're like, Whoa!
Yeah. And again, at this point, I had only been walking with Christ about four years, so I'm looking around. Hey, where's the pastor? Somebody find the pastor. Get a pastor over here so they can tell this guy about Jesus. So there was nobody except for my interpreter. So now
I'm like, oh, what do I do? So I just start sharing my testimony with this man, and I tell him about how my daughter and I were in a car crash, and I came to faith in a hospital and turned my life over and repented of my sins. And the next thing he said changed me at a wholesale level. He said, how can I?
Oh my word.
Have a friend that will never leave me. And I was like, oh my goodness, what just happened here?
Changed everything.
And then there's 30 people behind him. Brazilians, they're raising their hand and say, hey, we want that same gift too. Oh my word. So that's where we realized that the filter will save lives physically, but more importantly, it introduced introduces people to a relationship with Jesus.
We just got a moment. Give us some facts and figures of where you are now.
Yeah, we're working in about 20 different countries right now with most of our work happening, about 60% of our work happening in Kenya right now. We, uh, have probably served nearly 300,000 families in just the last ten years. And with the last year alone in 2024, we served 41,000 families. We had about 22,000 salvations and, um, just significant work all around the world.
This has God tracks all over it. Chris.
Amen.
You can't claim a stick of this, can you?
No, no, this is this is so far beyond me, I really don't even recognize myself anymore.
You know, here's here's a question. We're gonna do this quick because I want to give a link out here in just a moment. What do you say to the person who's just going through the grind, listening to you right now? What? You got to get on a ragged edge somewhere. Yeah. Got to get on a ragged edge, right?
Man, I just hope that this story of an ordinary business guy, uneducated, untrained, just like the Sanhedrin, saw Peter and John.
In the same way.
413 I just hope that somebody hears this and says, well, if this ordinary, uneducated guy can be part of that solution, maybe I can do something. I hope this becomes an anthem for a person sitting on the couch at home, driving in their car, knowing that there's more so compelling.
Ali. Just got to take a risk that's walking by faith. Amen. Just got to step out there. Oh my goodness. Boom crew. I want you to find out more. I think whether you give or just it fuels your soul and ignite something in you. Whatever the case, some of you are going to want to give some shekels, some a ton of shekels getting behind ministries like this. What a powerful thing. Ali. It is.
This is called the bucket Ministry. Christopher Beth, the founder and director with us this morning. Text bucket. If you want more information, text bucket to 800 555 7898. Bucket to 800 Five five, five 7898.
I kicked a song out because you're too compelling. So I want a one minute story. One minute.
One minute. Uh, we have a member of our team in Kenya. Her name is Linda Okumu. Linda was orphaned at the age of 11, and she was without any family to care for her. And from the age of 11 until her 30s, the only way she could survive was by selling her body. And we met her in her 30s. Uh, we delivered a water filter to her home, and she heard the gospel in her home. And after that day, she decided to follow Jesus. She was baptized, and she's now on our team of missionaries. Come on.
Working in Kibera slum in Nairobi, Kenya.
Come on.
And she's our one of our most prolific missionaries. And just bragging on her a little bit. She tends to spend so much time with her recipients that she's just reproducing what she's heard.
Unbelievable. Wow.
You want more text? Bucket to 800 555 7898. More on the bucket Ministry. Incredible. Incredible work done around the world. Text bucket to 800 555 7898.
Yeah. This is this is extraordinary, to say the least. I want to thank you for your heart, Chris. Thank you. Christopher Beth, founder, Chief Storyteller. Are you kidding me? Chief storyteller. Let me tell you what. Text bucket to 805 five five 7898. Let this fuel a fire inside you. God wants to do this in you today. There's no question about it.