Bob and Nate continue discussing the implications of selling dental practices to Dental Service Organizations (DSOs). They argue that selling to a DSO can lead to financial loss and loss of control for dentists. The conversation highlights the hype surrounding DSOs, the influence of celebrity endorsements, and the pressure tactics used to encourage practice sales. The hosts emphasize the importance of maintaining ownership and the potential pitfalls of selling practices, urging dentists to consi...
Jul 21, 2025•29 min•Season 4Ep. 2
In this episode of 'Just Say No to the DSO', hosts Bob Spiel and Nate Williams discuss the implications of the DSO movement in dentistry. They emphasize the importance of private practice ownership, the challenges faced by dental practice owners, and the impact of insurance and government intervention on the industry. The conversation highlights the benefits of maintaining control over one's practice and the potential pitfalls of selling to a DSO.
Jul 16, 2025•30 min•Season 4Ep. 1
Nate ventures out into the wilderness and is guest with Gary Bird for today's episode. This is a collabortive project and highlights the great being done to further the conversation around dentistry and it's future. For those not familiar, Gary Bird is the founding owner of SMC National, the dental industry’s top-rated marketing partner chosen by more than 60,000 dental professionals. A recognized thought leader, Gary hosts the popular shows Dental Marketing Theory and Dental Marketing Goat, whe...
Jun 30, 2025•1 hr 32 min•Season 3Ep. 16
In this inspiring conversation, Bob and Dr. Lou Berman delve into the complexities of the DSO landscape, particularly within the field of endodontics. They discuss the financial implications of joining a DSO, the role of key opinion leaders in shaping the industry, and the impact of corporate models on patient care. Dr. Berman shares his insights from over 41 years in the field, emphasizing the importance of maintaining control over one's practice and the need for dental professionals to seek ex...
Jun 20, 2025•43 min•Season 3Ep. 15
In this conversation, Bob hosts Daniel and Mila Cohen, who share their journey of building a successful independent dental practice. They discuss the challenges and rewards of partnership, the importance of defining roles, and the strategies they implemented to ensure effective management and accountability within their practice. The conversation highlights the significance of communication, utilizing resources, and the need for clarity in leadership to foster a thriving business environment. In...
Jun 16, 2025•41 min•Season 3Ep. 14
We are in for a double treat today as Bob interviews two incredible dentists, Dr Jill Tanzi and Dr Kristine Grazioso. Not only are we staying on the east coast for this episode, both of these amazing practitioners are passionate about dentistry and helping the patient get the best care. They are board and founding members of the Alliance for Independent Dentists, a nationwide group of volunteer dentists committed to educating dentists and the public about the benefits of Independent Dentistry. N...
May 26, 2025•36 min•Season 3Ep. 13
Bob is back and rolling with another great guest. We are headed to the east coast, just outside of Boston with Dr Eric Block. Dr. Block is a member of the American Dental Association, the Massachusetts Dental Society, and the American Academy of Cosmetic Dentistry and is a Fellow of the International Congress of Oral Implantologists. These type of credentials make him a perfect candidate to be courted by several major DSOs who are looking to add a talented dentist to their roster. However, Eric ...
May 14, 2025•25 min•Season 3Ep. 12
The hits continue at Just Say No, Bob interviews esteemed MD Dr. Robert McNamara who is a professor and Chair of Emergency Medicine at the Lewis Katz School of Medicine at Temple University to go over the eerie similarities between the corporate involvement in emergency medicine and dental practices. The similarities are not just skin deep.
Apr 21, 2025•54 min•Season 3Ep. 11
Super star guest Jason Wood hops back in the ring with Nate in order to clean up some lingering questions and try to address some long standing fallicies from a previous, high profile interview. He brings the info with receipts every time he visit's the DSO show.
Apr 06, 2025•48 min•Season 3Ep. 11
Super star guest Jason Wood hops back in the ring with Nate in order to clean up some lingering questions and try to address some long standing fallicies from a previous, high profile interview. He brings the info with receipts every time he visit's the DSO show.
Apr 06, 2025•45 min•Season 3Ep. 10
Here is part 2 of our great interview with Dr. Aaron Swapp. The conversation gets very dialed in between Nate and Dr Swapp.
Mar 17, 2025•56 min•Season 3Ep. 9
Nate is back traveling around the country in order to get the best interviews with the best professionals. We were put in touch with Dr Aaron Swap in order to have a great discussion on if...with a big if...DSOs are ever worth it? As well, how do things apply to orthodontics and what is really needed to run an amazing practice? Tune in for another great episode.
Mar 17, 2025•53 min•Season 3Ep. 8
Full steam ahead with no going back! The show is picking up incredible momentum thanks to our great listeners. Nate grabs another incredible guest this week in Scott Haley from Premier Orthodontics Practices. Scott has heard about the great work being done on Just Say No and wanted to hear it directly from the sources.
Mar 07, 2025•1 hr 12 min•Season 3Ep. 7
How do professionals begin and interact with the dental industry? So many great people from various backgrounds are attracted to this amazing field and we have one of the best today. John Van Leeuwen joins the crew remotely today for an awesome interview.
Feb 28, 2025•1 hr 12 min•Season 3Ep. 6
Here the amazing conclusion to the conversation between attorney Jason Wood and Nate as they disect where deals seem to stop making sense.
Feb 21, 2025•1 hr 1 min•Season 3Ep. 5
Just Say No to the DSO is coming off of some hot interviews and following up with experts all over the country to go over the details and discerne between fact and fiction. Nate sits down with attorney Jason Wood in order to dive deep into DSO deals. Here the amazing back and forth and find out where they agree and where they don't. Part 2 will follow shortly.
Feb 21, 2025•48 min•Season 3Ep. 4
After the Chip interview, Bob and Nate breakdown an actual DSO deal offer in order to get a better idea and understanding at what the tangible numbers look like. We wish we were making this stuff up…but we aren’t.
Feb 17, 2025•45 min•Season 3Ep. 3
After our amazing interview with Chip Fichtner, we've let the dust settle a bit and had time to digest as well as think over what was said. Bob and Nate discuss what iDSOs are really offering dentists and how the math cannot compute.
Jan 20, 2025•1 hr 4 min•Season 3Ep. 2
We are back for an amazing start to season 3. Bob and Nate sit down with one of the biggest iDSO brokers in the world, Chip Fichtner. This is an amazing interview to showcase what the otherside is thinking and trying to sell.
Jan 20, 2025•1 hr 27 min•Season 3Ep. 1
In this final episode of Season 2, Bob Spiel and Nate Williams emphasize the need for dentists to critically assess DSO offers and understand the financial biases at play that drive toward consolidation – while leaving dentists in the dust. Bob and Nate aim to educate dentists and empower them to make decisions that align with their best interests and long-term goals. Teasing Season 3, they promise deeper exploration through interviews with dentists who have resisted DSOs or exited them, sharing...
Jul 15, 2024•29 min•Season 2Ep. 9
Get ready for a candid and insightful chat as Bob Spiel and Nate Williams summarize Season 2 of "Just Say No to the DSO" – foreshadowing the end of Season 2 (although there will be one more bonus episode #9 coming.) In this episode, they dive deep into the nitty-gritty of selling dental practices to Dental Service Organizations (DSOs), offering up wisdom, wit, and a healthy dose of skepticism.
Jul 06, 2024•24 min•Season 2Ep. 8
Bob and Nate encouraging dentists to reject DSO sales pitches and maintain ownership of their practices for long-term success. Reiterating the importance of staying engaged in their work and understanding that DSOs won't overpay or make practice ownership easier.
Jun 14, 2024•24 min•Season 2Ep. 7
In this episode of “Just In this episode of "Just Say No to the DSO," hosts Bob Spiel and Nate Williams dive deep into the subject of DSO sale and employment contracts, and the surprises that dwell inside each. The discussion underscores how DSO contracts are driven by dollar signs and the DSO’s need to exert control in the business relationship.
May 29, 2024•21 min•Season 2Ep. 6
In this episode of Just Say No to the DSO hosts Bob Spiel and Nate Williams dive deep into the subject of ownership in a DSO, or what is called “Equity”. They describe why Equity is a self-made target that allows DSO’s to dramatically overstate their value, which leads dentists to believe their ownership is worth much more than it is. The discussion underscores the lack of transparency among DSO valuations, and why self-defined Equity is open to abuses. Ultimately, the episode aims to empower de...
May 16, 2024•33 min•Season 2Ep. 5
In this episode of "Just Say No to the DSO" hosts Bob Spiel and Nate Williams dive deep into the deceptive tactics employed by Dental Service Organizations (DSOs) to lure dentists into unfavorable agreements. Through real-life examples and a critical analysis of a $29 million DSO offer, they highlight the hidden costs and risks that dentists often overlook in pursuit of financial gain. The discussion underscores the importance of diligence and transparency in evaluating DSO deals, urging dentist...
May 08, 2024•38 min•Season 2Ep. 4
The podcast is episode three of Season 2 for “Just Say No to the DSO." Hosted by Bob Spiel and co-host Nate Williams, it discusses reasons why dental practice owners should avoid selling to Dental Support Organizations (DSOs). This podcast episode is a warning to dentists who are thinking about taking DSO deals. The hosts do a deep dive into a $20 million DSO deal and reveal how deceptive these deals can be. They stress the importance of being critical and skeptical of these deals. The goal of t...
Apr 26, 2024•25 min•Season 2Ep. 3
In this podcast episode of "Just Say No to the DSO," hosts Bob Spiel and Nate Williams discuss the importance of dentists maintaining control of their practices rather than selling to Dental Service Organizations (DSOs). They emphasize that smart business people don't overpay for practices and that DSOs are adept at making dentists think they're getting a great deal when, in reality, they may be giving away their practices for little to no value. The hosts explain the concept of EBITDA (earnings...
Apr 16, 2024•21 min•Season 2Ep. 2
The podcast is episode one of Season 2 for “Just Say No to the DSO"; Hosted by Bob Spiel and co-host Nate Williams, it discusses reasons why dental practice owners should avoid selling to Dental Support Organizations (DSOs). Bob Spiel has an MBA and is a practice management consultant, while Nate Williams is a dental CPA. They have both been in dentistry for over 15 years. Key points discussed: Introduction: Bob and Nate introduce themselves, emphasizing their experience in dentistry and financi...
Apr 09, 2024•30 min•Season 2Ep. 1
Concluding Season 1, the conversation focuses on the complexities and challenges associated with dentists selling to Dental Service Organizations (DSOs). Many dentists who engage in these DSO partnerships find themselves literally "paying back" their earnings over extended periods, without reaping any significant benefits unless their DSO is gobbled up (i.e. acquired) by a larger DSO. This model has an alarming turnover rate, with about 70% of engaged dentists leaving within the first two years,...
Sep 13, 2023•53 min•Season 1Ep. 7
In this episode, the hosts discuss the nuances and complexities of joining Dental Service Organizations (DSO’s), particularly highlighting the illusion they create of community and unity. Although these groups promote the idea of collective strength, many doctors, after joining, still find themselves feeling isolated in their individual practices, realizing that the promised unity doesn't quite materialize. The allure of equity is another theme, with many doctors being tempted to sell their prac...
Sep 13, 2023•40 min•Season 1Ep. 6
