Pt 2. Questions about Art Pricing, Experimenting, and Motivation in the Artist Studio. - podcast episode cover

Pt 2. Questions about Art Pricing, Experimenting, and Motivation in the Artist Studio.

Jun 13, 20241 hr 20 minSeason 2Ep. 8
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Episode description

Join us on "Just Make Art" as we tackle this age-old dilemma of pricing your art, when to show the world the work you have been experimenting on, exploring new ideas, maintaining studio focus and more.

In our latest episode, we uncover strategies for setting art prices with confidence and consistency, exploring methods like per square foot pricing, market research, and peer comparison. We emphasize the delicate balance between overpricing and undervaluing your work, and the critical role of supply and demand. Discover the importance of not just setting the right price, but also finding the right audience who values your unique artistic voice.

We also venture into the complex world of gallery sales versus direct studio sales. Gain insights into standard gallery commission splits and learn about the flexibility you have when selling directly from your studio, including offering discounts. Our conversation centers around developing a strong pricing strategy backed by solid market research and sales data, and we stress the value of external input and mentorship. Empower yourself with the tools to confidently justify price adjustments to dealers, ensuring your art is valued appropriately in the market.

Ever felt torn between producing familiar work and diving into new, experimental projects? We explore this common struggle among artists, offering advice on building confidence in new work and balancing hidden projects with existing commitments. Our discussion extends to the dynamics of different galleries and their impact on your artistic growth. We share personal stories about the freedom and creativity of using found materials, and practical tips for maintaining studio focus. Tune in for an inspiring dialogue that encourages you to embrace artistic evolution while staying connected to your creative spirit.

Artists mentioned in the Episode:
@Wunderwood_art
@jennhassin
@acestark
@nanvanryzin
@theartsofmythoughts
@eh.painting
@Samantha.lesan.art
@AudreyCha.art 





Send us a message - we would love to hear from you!

Make sure to follow us on Instagram here:

@justmakeartpodcast @tynathanclark @nathanterborg

Transcript

Pricing Art

Speaker 1

How should artists price their work ? Should we share our experimental stuff or keep it to ourselves ? What mediums are left to be explored ? How do I start an abstract sculpture ? What do I do if I just don't have the motivation to work consistently ? Ty , these questions and more will be addressed in today's episode of Just Make Art . This is part two .

You know what ? Let's just do this . Let's just not even call it parts , because we've agreed we're just going to keep doing this , going forward . This is our second crack at Q&A . We got so many questions the first time around that we had enough left over for a second episode .

So let's get into some of these questions and take our best crack at some useful answers . So let's go ahead and begin with William Underwood . William says I'll ask the question . Nobody wants to . How should artists approach pricing their work ?

I know there's no linear or right answer here , but I would love to hear the two of you have a dialogue about this subject . Thanks for producing this podcast Incredibly insightful . Thank you for listening , william . Ty , go ahead , oh boy Nathan . I made some stuff I'd like to sell it .

Speaker 2

The question of all questions , right , how do I price my freaking art ? I mean , gosh , this is one of the absolute most difficult things for an artist to not learn but figure out . I mean , there are so many things .

I mean you just go on and search online how to price artwork , right , that's usually the first step is how I do this , and there's a million different answers out there . There's the pricing calculators , the per square foot , per centimeter , per meter , added my supplies and the time worked Like .

There's so many different things that are out there and we usually learn the hard way because sometimes artists overprice their work in the beginning or undervalue the work in the beginning or have such an inconsistency in pricing .

Because one thing that artists do when we start out is we overprice the work we really love because we kind of don't want to sell it sometimes or we think there's more worth to the piece we really love and then everything else is underpriced .

And so you know , when you present that to somebody or to a gallerist or to a curator and they kind of look at it and go , they're all over the place , it kind of throws up red flags . So I have been pricing my work per square foot for years , based on a per square foot with a dollar amount and then that equals the total of the price .

I've done that for years but it wasn't just a random thing . It was through a lot of market research and having sold work at prices and how I kind of came up with that with a group of artist friends as we looked at other artists that were like us and we kind of priced their work based on theirs .

So if I went and let's say , nathan , you and I started out at the same time and you got into some galleries and you had some things going and you had a , your work was selling at this price and our work is similar and in the same vein , I would look at your price and go my CV doesn't reflect yours . I don't have that many shows .

I don't have a lot of things out there in the art world . I'm not selling in a ton of art , so I can't price my work just like yours . So I have to find another way to lower that work in a way that I can start selling work . Number one selling . Is it selling at a certain given price , at a regular basis , month after month or year after year .

Well then , okay , I can raise those prices a little bit .

If your work is selling at a certain price , then that's kind of what the market believes your work to be worth in that moment , and so there are times where you kind of need to stay with that for a while , even if it's at a lower price point , because your work is selling , and that's what you need to do in the beginning is sell work and move work .

But if you're constantly selling at a certain price , that's the market telling you it's time for you to raise your prices and take them a little bit higher . With that , though , we have to be absolutely confident and absolutely have conviction behind our prices , because people will ask why do you price it this way ? Why is your work price this way ?

Because art is expensive . Even if it's a lower price , art is still expensive . It's not a normal purchase for people , right , to just go out and spend $750 or $1,500 or $4,000 on a work of art , right ? Those are things that are typically used for your regular bills and things .

So we have to have this confidence and conviction behind our prices , and if the market is telling us that the work is selling really well , well , let's keep that going for a little bit , and then eventually we can raise those prices because of the market demand .

Speaker 1

All right , so I'm going to stop you there . Is it as simple as supply and demand ? Is it as simple as what the market bears ? And here's why I ask is because I have read somewhere who knows where , but I have heard somewhere out in the ether that it could also be a product of not having yet found your audience .

In other words , if the wrong , not the wrong people , if not yet the right people , are the ones who are even looking at your work or considering buying it , it wouldn't matter if it's $10,000 or $10 , they're not your people , that's not your audience , that's not your market Right ?

Speaker 2

Well , let's look at it on an art . Yeah , let's look at it in an art timeline . Right From beginning , you're starting out , right , you just started . You've got 10 or 15 paintings or sculptures or whatever it may be that you're making , that you feel really confident behind and now it's time . Now , what do I do ? Yeah , you have to put a price on it .

Can't just sit there with it . So you're going to price it a little low . But you got to kind of look at other people that are in that same stage as you . Right , research we talk about it all the time on this show . Better be doing your research . If you're an artist . Go to little shows .

Go to art spaces , right , not art galleries , but go to the art spaces , those entry market level spaces where you can sell your work . Look at other artists that are kind of similar than you , that have work like yours or just starting out . What are they pricing their work at ? Put a dollar value on it .

In the beginning you don't know what your audience is . Yet Today there's so many avenues for audience , right , social media presents a ton of new audiences . Well , that's a completely different audience than an art audience , than an art gallery , than an art collector . That's years down the road . We get down that timeline . We've done some of those things .

We've done some group shows , we've sold some pieces to friends and family , we've done studio tours in our city and the community may come in and buy work . And now we're kind of going where's my audience fitting ? I'm selling a bunch of work .

I'm going to try and kind of move that up a little 10% , 20% here and there Because what's going to happen is once you graduate from that beginning level into the emerging market where you get into some galleries or group shows and things , if you are lucky and blessed enough to someday be on a roster or a stable with an art gallery , they may raise your

prices altogether . They may tell you hey and have a conversation why do you price your work ? Here ? I think we're going to need to bump your work up because our customer will buy pieces at this price and we feel like your value is at this level . That happened to me .

I got into a blue chip gallery in LA and they wanted to raise my prices to fit the level of customer and buyer that they had . And it took me to a new level . They raised them 30% , which means I raised my prices 30% across the board .

All my other galleries , all my other dealers , everywhere they got the new spreadsheet of the work they had that said hey listen , my market value just took a jump 30% . Here's all the new pricing .

So I know I'm kind of fast forwarding quite a bit there , but at the end of the day I found my price points by researching artists who started at the same time as me , who had work like me .

I looked at those that were better than me , I looked at those that were at the same level in me , I looked at those whose work was weaker than me , but they were in more galleries , they had more market value . And then I kind of looked at a baseline on how to price my work in between all those things .

Speaker 1

Yeah . So what I'm pulling from that ? I'm going to stop you there . So what I'm pulling from that is that it's important to acknowledge market value is not consistent with your or any of our opinion on stronger or weaker work . Absolutely , yeah , absolutely .

Yep , talk some more about the importance of consistency and having your sort of listed prices be consistent across the board .

Speaker 2

Yeah , they need to be consistent . If your goal is to be in the art world and in galleries and things like that , you have to have a consistency . You don't want to have a 60 inch piece , that's , let's just say , $4,000 , and then have a 30 inch piece , that's $6,000 , because you like it a lot more . Right , like that's showing something's off here .

That doesn't make sense , right ? Price should increase with scale . It should decrease with scale . And that's part of the problem too when people price by square inch or square foot or square centimeter , because the lower you go , the price goes really low in scale . The higher in scale the price really really increases .

So there are things where you have to kind of adjust and kind of maneuver to make sure that consistency isn't so vast in pricing that it really seems comparable as the work goes up four inches , six inches , eight inches , centimeter , whatever . That pricing is slowly going up with that scale . So there's no 100% right answer . They're just . I can't just go .

Here's the formula , here's the this , because everybody's using something different and that's fine . But do your research on your level beginner , emerging , mid-career wherever you are on the art timeline , look at the other artists like you , not if their work is just way better or way worse .

Look at where they are in the art world and how they're pricing things and find a good fit .

Speaker 1

And so you I think we've talked about this before offline but you , you round up for smaller pieces and round down for larger pieces . Yeah , yeah , okay , that's important to share with folks , because you and I both have works varying from whatever two square feet to a hundred square feet . That's important to understand . Yeah , absolutely , yep .

Pricing Strategies for Artists

And then talk a little bit about how to navigate listed prices prices that might be sold through a gallery or a dealer versus the studio discount that you might give somebody who does a studio tour that you sell to directly .

Speaker 2

Well , yeah , obviously , if you're in a gallery , the standard commission for a gallery is going to be a 50-50% split . That's standard . Now there are places that I've been in and I'm in where it's 40% or 35% that the gallery takes and that , golly , that's fantastic . Yeah , any day , it's like the less that you're giving away , the better .

But like I've always said , and I said on the first part of our Q&A is I'm fine with that . They're doing work that I don't have to do , allows me more time to paint by the gallery , working on my behest and selling my work . But you know , when you're selling work out of your studio , you have the ability to give a discount if you want to .

Now , I know artists that don't do that . They sell it for full profit , right ? If you have a $5,000 piece that you're going to sell out of your studio , if you sold it in the gallery , you're going to take home $2,500 . Sell it in your studio . I know artists that are yeah , this is the value , so that's what I sell it for .

I usually , if somebody comes into my studio and is wanting to buy work , I'll usually give them a discount . Usually , you know , 25% , possibly 20% , depending on the work itself . But that's your choice and that's , I mean , that's something you can control . Right , that's something that's in your complete control .

If you want to give somebody 40% discount who's buying work out of your studio or coming in to see it you know I don't do play , that's where you can experiment with things hey , I'm going to do , you buy one , you buy two pieces . I'm going to give you 50% off for buying two . You buy , you know you can . That's your control .

You can do whatever you want . So you know it's really up to the artist on how you do that , but I always , if somebody buys out of my studio , give some type of discount .

Speaker 1

Yeah , and this is where I would make a case for to William and anybody else . That's this . This is where I would definitely make a case for getting some external input from a trusted source , of whatever kind .

But to your point from before , doing the research , looking at what else is out there , letting the market tell you what your current value is , and also understanding too , that's not your value as an artist , that's not the value of your work in a broad sense , it's just what people currently , based on how known you are , are willing to pay um , you know for

for currently Right .

Speaker 2

So yeah , and I , and it is . I want to rehash this again , even though I already said it . I just want to really buckle down on this . You need to be able to have conviction behind why you price your work the way you do . I've been asked by dealers when I've raised my prices . I've had my dealer say why are you raising your prices ? Like last year ?

It was this , and it seems like it's about a 15% increase . And I might well . Yeah , I sold a lot of work last year and I got into two new galleries and I got a new dealer in LA and work is moving and the value of my work has increased . And what is the response ? Oh , wow , great . Thanks for that's incredible . Thanks for letting us know .

You don't want to go , well , because I just think I should make more money , right , yeah , or will I need ? I got to pay rent . I need to afford it , right ? Those are not . That's not conviction behind your work . You got to have proof in the pudding .

You can't just set a price that's X and go well , it's X , because I feel like it's a really strong work of art . Right , that doesn't always fly . It's well because these . I just got into five group shows this year . I've been selling work out of my studio .

Even if it's family and friends you're selling work Like , don't , don't diminish who you're selling to . I'm selling work out of my studio . I just sold five pieces . I've been selling work on Instagram regularly .

You know , whatever it is , you gotta be able to define the why your prices are the way they are and how they're increasing when the art world comes calling , because they will ask questions not all , but some .

Speaker 1

Yeah , and I'll just add a little bit of perspective from somebody who's much earlier on the path than you are .

I think that it was very helpful for me to see that proof of concept when I started to sell work consistently and realize , oh , there are people who are willing to pay this for my work and that allows one to operate from a position of strength , like the scenario that you just described only happens when you know that if that particular dealer in the scenario

that you just kind of laid out decided not to represent you anymore , that you'd still be okay , because you know that your work will sell from the other avenues that you currently have in place . So I think that's worth sharing as well .

But anyway , I'll just kind of wrap this question up by just reiterating ask for help , ask people what their opinion is , ask for people find mentors in some form or fashion . Back to our last episode of get out in the world and find you know people that that know more than you , that are willing to sort of be on your team and help out .

That's , yeah , it's incredibly , incredibly important . Yeah , all right , let's move on to our next question for today

Discovering Artistic Identity and Evolution

. Jen , you know , jen , how does Jen's last name . Questions for today . Jen . You know , Jen . How does Jen's last name ? I believe it's Hassan . I put you on the spot .

Speaker 2

Yeah , you did put me on the spot I assume you know her , You're like . I actually don't All right . I mean , I'm a massive fan of Jen's work . I'm a fanboy of Jen's work .

I saw her work a few years ago at East Austin Studio Tours and I did not know Jen's work at that time and I walked into a gallery on the east side and I saw her work and I just I dropped and went who is this ? How do I get to know this person ? Oh , my goodness , so that's just some fanboy stuff .

Speaker 1

At how much I admire her work and just because we read your question and don't share our thoughts about how much we enjoy your work doesn't mean that we don't . It just means that maybe we forgot . Yeah , absolutely so . Jen asks I'm in this phase of my career where I just want to hide and make art that no one looks at . When should I let people in ?

I still have shows lined up . Should I just show what I'm known for and keep this experimental stuff to myself ? Should I just show what I'm known for and keep this experimental stuff to myself All right ? Now , again , as with almost every question that we get , the first part of every answer is it depends , right ?

You happen to know a little bit about Jen and kind of where Jen's at in terms of just the trajectory of her art career . So maybe give what context you're aware of before addressing the question , because I think that's really important .

Speaker 2

Yeah , and I mean Jen is emerging . So she has shows , she's in galleries , she has work up on walls right , consistently , and she's had , you know , a few different styles that she's really worked in . That you know , would define her .

And I think this is that hard part at times when you start moving work and getting in spaces is you're constantly creating that work sometimes . And go back to Eric's episode uh , our last episode with Eric .

He talks about this quite a bit , um as well , and even when he was in my mentorship pro mentorship program , we were talking about this as well where he had all these ideas and all this work that he really wanted to start working and developing .

And so that's what I told him just work on it , Do all the stuff that you're doing for your shows and your galleries , Keep making that , but find time to make the work that nobody looks at , that nobody sees , because you're going to have to develop it .

You want to get to the point , Jen , where you are as confident in that work that you're hiding and not showing people as you are in the work that's gotten you into the art world and into galleries before you put it out there .

That's what I would say , when you should let people in is when you're just as confident with that or more confident with it than what you've been making . And then it's time to share it with those other relationships . Because everybody knows , artists evolve and I'm deciding in my head if I want to be bold enough to say something else or not .

But here we go .

There are galleries that sell a ton of work , that make artists a lot of money and , yes , they're in the art world , but I would consider them outside the art world because they don't care about the artist's trajectory in the art world , they just care about making money at times and they do not want anything new from that artist , they just want the thing that's

selling . Now there are galleries like that and there are galleries that aren't like that . There are galleries that want to grow with the artists and evolve and you know , when the artist brings new stuff in , they go through it and talk about it and they bring it in and do shows . I think Ferrari Gallery is a great example of that in Dallas with Eric .

They were willing to grow with him and let him bring new ideas .

Speaker 1

And but oh man , if I know artists , before you move on , I actually made it , just made a note of that , yeah , yeah , and this is back to what we talked about before and in our episode , you know , with Eric .

But it's being bold enough to say this is what I you may be aware of , what I've done before , this is what I want to show , right , yep , and be just being clear about , like , this is this is what I've got . That that's really important , so yeah .

The key is once you get it to a point where you're excited , where you feel like it's ready to be shared and you want to put it out there , then it's up to us , as as the artist , to say all right , here's what I want to show now .

Speaker 2

Yeah , I mean here it's the same thing with your pricing . You need to have an absolute confidence and conviction behind your work . You can't just go here's my new work , right , and send it in a PDF in an email . Yeah , you need to be confident enough to go . I'm developing , my work is changing . This is where it's going . Let's do something , let's show it .

You know what I mean . And that doesn't mean you're going to get a yes from that gallery . Maybe that's the time to start pitching this new work to new galleries and new ideas . You know what I mean . And new places like this is the trajectory of an artist . I'm sorry , everybody , this is how it works . You're going to change . You're going to develop .

If you want to make strong work in your lifetime , you're going to have to evolve . You're going to have to develop . You're going to have to change . Ideas are going to grow . You're going to discover new things . Things are going to change and develop and keep moving . You want that trajectory .

You don't want to just create the same damn thing every year for the next 40 years . You're going to be so bored and unhappy with yourself , even if you're making great money which is very rare for artists to make really great money . That's a small percentage that are very financially successful .

But if you're going to create work and survive off of it , man , if you're stuck doing that and what you don't like to do , you know what it's like when you're making work you don't like . Imagine a lifetime of that , oh , that's awful .

So , jen , keep your experimental stuff to you for a while , develop it , work on it until you get that confidence and you have complete conviction in defining what you're doing and then go , like the blazes man , throw it out there to everybody . That's what I think . That's my opinion .

Speaker 1

Well , I think this goes back to the whole be careful what you become known for .

Would you rather succeed at doing something that you may not totally love , or fail at something that you absolutely do , right , yeah , I think that it's also important to note that this should only be a consideration for artists that are already known for something like yeah , because you don't know about it .

You don't know what you're doing yet , and questions like hey , should I try this new and and and ? In many cases it's artists that are not even close to established , that maybe haven't had a chance to show yet , that don't have representation , that are just in .

That's great , that's a beautiful place to be , but until you're known for something this isn't even on the like experiment . It's your job .

Speaker 2

That's all you should be doing .

Speaker 1

Yeah , that's all you should be doing , and share as much or as little as you choose to . But that is our responsibility as artists , no matter where we're at , is to keep experimenting and , depending upon if you already have something that you are or are not known for , then you can decide how much of that you want to share with other people .

But I think that's definitely worth noting .

Speaker 2

Yeah , I was telling an artist this last week in my program and I was saying listen , experiment , experiment , do everything . The more that you're doing that , the faster you get to the moment where it clicks and you go oh , that's it . That's it .

I mean I've been there playing , trying all these different things , just going nuts , and then all of a sudden it just was right in front of my face and said hey , I'm here , let's dance , Right , it just took so much trying and playing and gosh , I was going back .

Uh , this last weekend I was going through my Instagram feed all the way back and I was screenshotting all these things from way back in the beginning when I was posting , and I was like , oh golly , yeah , I remember that , so glad I'm not there anymore , but I had to try ink prayers and squeegees .

I mean I was trying everything and I was just working out how paint works and how texture works and how these mediums work .

And it took me you know that was I don't know when that was mediums work , and it took me you know that was I don't know when , that was 2015 or something , and then all of a sudden , or 2016 , then all of a sudden , things started to take shape and all of a sudden I can put my finger on there it was .

There was the moment when all of that shitty experimenting with things that are just sitting in drawers and paper and loose canvas and whatever painted over , and it took all that to go there it is . That's it . That's me , that's where I'm going . Yes , you got to be doing all that other stuff to get there quicker .

Speaker 1

You have to experiment recklessly , I think that's , that's what I think about like recklessly . Experimentation is the fastest path to find your voice and to get to a point where you have that like aha , moment of like , oh , I'm onto something and you know , you know what you know . You know that feeling of like , oh , this is real .

This is something that I can see myself digging into and exploring and mining for years to come , and so I think that no experiment's ever wasted . You and I have joked before about how we both have just stacks upon stacks upon stacks of experiments and work that will never see the light of day , but that was one of the things that I really benefited from .

The biggest thing when people ask me about your mentorship program not to make this into a commercial , but I'll say it since you wouldn't that is the biggest thing that I gained in being mentored by you was permission to go out and experiment like that . Can you imagine I might still be just putting paint on canvases ? I'm joking .

Consider this your invitation to go and experiment and try new things , because that is the fastest path to get from where we're all at at one point , which is just doing our best , sort of imitation of a combination of our most impactful influences to then , over time , being able to develop into what will become our own personal voice .

Exploring New Artistic Mediums and Ideas

Speaker 2

Yeah , and I think , stacy , our next question is a good this is a really good bookend here for Jen's question from Stacy Stark . She says artistically what are some medium styles and ideas that you would still like to explore ? That you just haven't had time to do yet , but it's on your list of curiosity , hmm , how much time You're .

You're , you talked about this a little bit in the last episode but you didn't really go into it . But you just bought some things to take you to that next experimental level . Like , where are you moving with that ? Tell us what you're doing . Or don't tell us if you want to keep it like Jen and hide it for a little bit .

Speaker 1

Yeah , no , I haven't actually shared any of it yet on the socials , but no . So I have a governing principle and it's one of the few things that rules for myself that I adhere to , and it goes back to this idea of improv comedy . I think it's the first rule , it's one of the rules of improv comedy is yes , and if we're doing a right , we're doing improv .

You know , on stage and you say and we're on Mars . What I , what I'm not going to do is say no , we're actually on Pluto , because it kills the momentum . So yes , and is , when you say we're on Mars , I would say yes , and we're here to collect all the red dust to make whatever . Okay , we're continuing .

So one of the rules I have is that when an idea comes to mind , um , the shorter the path between what , if and why not , the more I can accelerate my progression as an artist . Some things I can try right away , because I have collected quite a bit of material and tools and and things to to play with your mini anselm keifer .

Speaker 2

That's right , that's right like my . You're like the micro machines , the old toy cars , to age myself a little bit , but you're the micro Anselm with that .

Speaker 1

That actually , oh no , no , I do remember micro machines .

I mean we're not that far apart in age , but I was like it might actually be a slight half generation difference between you and me , but anyway , sometimes it requires going out and investing in whatever new tools , new equipment , new material , and so in this case , yeah , I've been consumed with the idea of working with metal and I really debated on and I've

worked with some metal in the past , but not to this degree . I really kind of went back and forth on like , do I want to learn how to weld or do I want to learn how to cast metal ? And I chose option B , so I bought a smelter . I think that's what it's called metal and I chose option B . So I bought a smelter , I think that's what it's called .

Anyway , something that can smelter to heat up , yeah Right , and so I've got a lot of collected aluminum and copper and that's my , my latest obsession , my latest experiment , and so I'm running these experiments concurrently while still working on , you know , pieces and ideas that are that are , you know , more more developed , and I think that there's something to be

said for having a balance there of it all depends on kind of how you work and what your studio practice is . For me , I have found that I can stray too far into experimental realm and then I sort of miss out on the fulfillment that comes from developing or working on more developed ideas .

You know ideas and concepts , but anyway , long story short , my list of of of ideas . I mean my , my . I have said this before if all I did was execute on a fraction of the ideas that I have in my journal or have in my head , it would still take me multiple lifetimes , you know to , to work through it .

So the biggest challenge that I have is just like how , how do you edit it down ?

How do I identify like , all right , um , cool , this is something fun to play with for a day and it's an idea that I just feel like I'm , it's all about collecting right , like , how can I build my collection of ideas and and put new things in my toolkit , literally and figuratively ?

But how can I figuratively build up my , my vocabulary , you know , visually to , to work with , and so , um , I am really driven by , from a medium standpoint , what I encounter , like what I see in the world . My antenna is always up as I'm walking around , driving around , like , Ooh , what could I , what could I do with that ?

Specifically with , you know , trash that you know , shockingly nobody misses or gets upset about when you , when you pick it up or pull it out of a dumpster or you know , pick it up off the off the side of the road , and so , yeah , I could . I could go on and on , but that's my , that's my latest obsession . What about you , ty ?

Speaker 2

I've played with so many things that I don't know what I haven't played with yet , to be honest . And I mean I started out in clay . I started out in ceramics . I'd like to get back to clay . That's something I've been gradually in my head been moving towards .

So I started out in ceramics , started out in clay sculpture , and then fell in love with painting and art school and kind of never looked back and I've always maintained doing sculpture small and things with my work or combines that really end up sculpting on something that is two-dimensional , taking it three-dimensional for a while , but did my first large-scale

sculpture last year , ended up in a museum exhibition , and so that was like that first , like start of something that I really wanted to explore idea wise . That really took me a long time to get to mentally because of fear . At the end of the day we all have fear for those things that we really want to do and we haven't done yet .

That's what's holding us back . It's never materials , it's fear that's holding us back , because I had these really grand gestures and I have a lot of sketches of sculpture . I never sketch paintings , I just paint , but with sculpture I'm really sketching ideas because at the end of the day , you got to engineer these things if you're going to go large .

So you kind of need to know where balance needs to be , where weight needs to be . Is it floor ? Is it hanging from the ceiling ? How are these things going to work with weight if it's not just hanging on a wall ? And so I do sketch a lot , and finally I tried to figure out the least expensive form of sculpture , and that was plaster .

For me to go large scale , I just did research using plaster for sculpture . What are the best ways to create ? This is kind of tying in , I guess , to T , our buddy Telphia .

Speaker 1

Williams , you failed in a big way , right ? I remember you telling me about how you came back one day and everything had fallen to the floor , right ? Oh , I've done , you only learned what you needed to learn because you jumped in and freaking did it and made those mistakes , to be able to make those adjustments .

Speaker 2

Yeah , and then I'd run to Home Depot and buy a bunch more things to go . How can I structurally keep the weight of this up Right and things ?

And I had to play and experiment and so I used chicken wire and fencing and I used wood and I used the insulation tubes from Home Depot to create a base , you know , and and then I ended up creating an eight foot sculpture that ended up in a museum show that I'm mostly confident in not fully confident their ideas I like more than the finished work in it at

times . And so finding time to do it for artists who aren't full-time in the studio right , is sometimes something that we really struggle with , because if we have only a certain amount of set time every week to be in the studio , we want to work on those things where we're really feeling led to go in our work we're making .

So finding that time to experiment outside of that is a lot more difficult at times .

So journal the hell out of those ideas so you don't forget , and maybe just break up some of that time into experimental time to play and do those things , Because I think I'm pretty confident those experiments and ideas will end up developing what you're already working on too , and giving you ideas and the work that you're currently working on .

Speaker 1

Yes , yes , yes and yes , don't sit on ideas . I mean , I'm sure you've gotten a lot of these . So oh , people see me experimenting with . Oh , I've thought about maybe trying that at some point . Oh , I've thought a bunch of times . Don't sit on ideas like that , like Rick Rubin talks about in his book . You know , don't that idea came to you for a reason ?

Speaker 2

It's a seed .

Speaker 1

It's a seed , don't wait for it . It's not going to grow on its own . And especially the ones that come back that has kind of become like a filter for me is like the ones that I just can't shake . Like this whole idea of casting metal I just haven't been able to get out of my head . It's come back so many times I'm just like I have to do it .

I am compelled to execute on this and just see where it goes , and I might fail gloriously . But it'll unlock another thing , it'll give me another piece of vocabulary that I could apply to something completely different going forward .

I think one of the things that I have observed in myself and others that holds us back from that experimentation is this whole idea of feeling like we've got to arrive at some level of competency or even God forbid mastery before we move on to the next thing .

Like there's sort of this , like almost like academic progression of like I've got to graduate from level you know , the 101 before I get to the 201 . And it's like no man , this is art , like this is we get to make up our own rules .

There is no linear path from A to B to C , and so , understanding that in some cases the barrier for entry to try new things may be significant , but there's almost always a scaled down , affordable or free version to try . I don't know if we've discussed this book before . I love it . I highly recommend it .

It's a book by Adam Savage , who's one of the guys from Mythbusters . He's got a book called Every Tool is a Hammer and it's all about shop organization , tools , superior ways of Kind of , the tactics of working with a wide variety of different materials .

But one of the things that I picked up from that book was , when it comes to purchasing new tools , tools or equipment or material by the cheapest , the cheapest thing , first just to see if there's something there , just to see if you like it , and then , once you've worn that thing out or identified like , yeah , I want to do more of this , then think about

you know actually saving up or you know investing in a proper you know whatever-end quality version that's going to last you over time , but I don't know . This is one of my things that I get stuck on . But mastery is for the birds . Just pick up more language that you can use in any which way you choose as time goes on .

Speaker 2

Well , and I want to let's merge that last question from Stacey into the next one here , because this next question talks about materials as well , and I think this is this is really good , because I know there's some listeners that really do want to hear this from you because of your process and your material hunting , which are very vocal about sharing on Instagram

and even on this podcast .

But I know there's a lot , of , a lot of people who follow you and your journey and love the way that you gather and collect things , and so I'm going to pronounce this name the best possible way that I can , and I think it might be Nan Von Risen or Risen , and the question is does your material hunting come from your brain or from your soul ?

Speaker 1

I was thinking about how to answer this . I think it's van Risen and I'm choosing to pronounce it that way because that would make Nan Dutch so one of my people . It's definitely not from my brain . Nothing useful comes from my brain , apart from how to tie my shoes and how to remember to lock the doors at night .

If I had to choose one of those two things , it would come from my soul for sure .

The Art of Found Material Transformation

I think this is one of those things that , again , we don't need to understand why we're doing things . We don't have a reason . This does pair well with our previous question .

There's no like there doesn't have to be a logical , you know , sort of whatever laid out explanation for you know why we feel compelled to do the things that we do and and chase down the ideas that we have .

And so , in my case , when it comes to the whole found material thing , it just happened I did not like set out to be somebody who , you know , dealt with trash , but I have always been very resourceful and I've always been somebody who like like to see what I could do with whatever was available and around , and so it started with just practicality of like back

to kind of our earlier point of of experimenting recklessly , I will tell you there's a there's a magnificent freedom that comes and experimenting with something that was already either going to be in the trash or , in some cases , it was already in the trash . Anyway , like the worst I could do is put this back . You know where it started .

That's a good place to operate from . So that's kind of like for me , kind of how I started to work with different things it started off with I think the first like sort of found material that I worked with was pallets , because my studio is in an industrial space and there's all types of , you know , industrial waste .

And one of the things that I kind of like to try to do is think about renewable resources in the context of is this something that I could source consistently going forward , if I hit on something right , like if I get into a vein where I'm like , oh , I want to do a whole lot more of this , can I get more of this , or is this a finite resource that I

can't necessarily replicate a bunch of or get my hands on ? You know more of it as time goes on .

And so it just kind of happened , naturally , to answer the question you know and it did come from , I would say , you know just kind of how I'm wired , which is , you know , what can we do with what we've got right and what can be done with things that would otherwise have been discarded , and so that's kind of where , again , we don't need to understand what

it's about , and Jerry Saltz talks about this you don't need to understand what your work's about . The work will tell us as time goes on , and so it wasn't until much later that I realized , oh , this is me .

This is what I've been doing this entire time is trying to take , take the scars , some of which inflicted by life , some of which , you know , self-inflicted , the things that we all have you know that we that we don't , you know , talk about it at dinner parties the lens of my experience with recovery and being involved in the recovery community and seeing human

beings , people , lives that were discarded , that were written off , that were , you know , set aside either by themselves , or you know those around them and saying , no , this trash can become treasure . You know what was discarded can lead to discovery , and so now , yeah , that's buried , you know , deep in my soul .

And when I'm successful , if I'm successful in communicating that on a piece by piece or or body of work by body of work basis , hopefully that shines through .

Speaker 2

Yeah , I don't . I don't know if I ever shared this story with you , but I need to send you the pictures just so you can see them .

But my senior show in art school everything was was dumpster dive stuff , found objects , computer parts , refrigerators done on old doors or cabinet doors , where my canvases , glass , everything was made from what I collected in the dumpsters .

Over my senior year had bought a new area that's called South Campus or North Campus , I can't remember , but it was all empty warehouses and so they had moved a few of the art classes because they just kind of got the shitty areas into some of those old warehouses and it was chain link fences inside that were like separating the classes .

But I asked if I could make a studio out there for my senior year and they said , yeah , absolutely . And so and I had 24 access to the building to make art and I used all the pole vaulting pads , because there's a really big track program at the university and they had all the old pole vaulting pads stored in there .

So I made walls with them and I created a studio where I would , but it was next to the IT department and so that's where the IT department threw all their old stuff in the dumpster .

So I'd collect all these computer pieces and computer parts and stuff and refrigerators and old TVs that I would stick in the old TVs and made all these things highly influenced by Boschian who I'd fell in love with that time and took me to painting and those things . But anyways , there's so much about that and it was all soul hunting . It was that soul .

It wasn't like brain , like thinking through if I got this and this and this , this could do this . It was like I wonder what this could do . And oh , there's these moments in there . I'm the same now with all of my sculptural work and all of my combines have natural objects within them , so they have wood and branches and things .

And I loved climbing trees when I was a kid and there's something about that , the limb or the branch and all these things . That are just soul moments . So I'll see branches on the side of the road and it's like I just can't leave it there . That was something alive at one time .

It no longer is , but I can make it alive again , I can bring life back to it . There is that , that soulness to doing that and searching and finding things .

Sculpture Base and Artist Struggles

And then sometimes I sit in the studio for years and then all of a sudden an idea hits and you look over and there's those things and it connects to a memory and all of a sudden it becomes a piece . So there , there's a lot of beauty in those things , for sure 100% .

Speaker 1

Yeah , I had this , this aha moment you made me , you help me remember just now .

I had this aha moment a couple of months ago where I realized that , like the way that I'm , the way that I'm creating currently and I suspect probably indefinitely , is building up a palette of of materials , of of textures , you know not so much you know colors , the colors that can inherently be produced by manipulating those materials , or or color that was

already there . But I just think about , like , I do have those , and part of this is just from , like , watching those art 21 videos and seeing some of these different studios that people have and and just seeing you know so when I and when you come visit you'll , you'll see .

I haven't actually shared this much , but I've got , I've got stacks and I've got bins labeled .

Speaker 2

Oh yeah , I've seen your bins .

Speaker 1

Yeah , yeah , yeah . But now I've got a system where I lay it out Like the museum of , like natural history would have bugs pinned , oh yeah .

I it would have bugs pinned in different sizes , they're just kind of all like laid out in a glass case , and so now I've got these white pieces of like yard signs , that I've got everything like laid out like a like a tray , sorted by size , and I got those . Anyway , I'm getting , I'm going down a rabbit hole .

That's probably not interesting to anybody , you're not ?

Speaker 2

the bug collector . You're the , you're the , you're the piece collector .

Speaker 1

But to your point . I actually just placed a piece of material on a piece of artwork that I had been sitting with and that I had pulled out so many different times , and when you find a home for it , you're like , oh , this is where .

You didn't know it , I didn't know it , but this is where you belong for life , so I didn't know it but this is where you belong . Yeah , yeah , for life . So that's a fun question . All right , let's talk about T Yep . At the arts of my thoughts on Instagram and you actually , you've met T , right .

Speaker 2

I haven't met in person . Oh , okay , no , but I think I know T his sister and his mom . Now , Very cool , yeah , I think I know T his sister and his mom .

Speaker 1

Now , very cool , very cool . I'll let you take first pass at this one . T asks how do I begin an abstract sculpture ? What would I need for ?

Speaker 2

the base . Yeah , this is a great question and I think you know this is a very technical question . But also I suggest everybody research T Willis and you'll see his little Instagram handle below us here on screen and in the description . We'll have everybody's Instagram handles in our podcast description so you can go check out the artist later .

But he's just got a wonderful story of overcoming and I think he would have fit he would have fit great into the Louise Bourgeois episode and on a whole different level , on a physical level .

So , t , just thinking about you , because I've been thinking about this since I saw the question putting together a sculpture and creating a base and trying to figure this out from a wheelchair a lot different than me and my studio being able to really move and put these things together and find structure and things .

So I think doing some research , but I think having just a piece of wood as a base is a great place to operate .

So when you're doing clay and ceramics and maybe you're making a bust , a lot of times you'll have a piece of wood that may have a PVC pipe or a metal pipe that's kind of screwed into the base of the wood and then having a pipe come up to start building out your structure on , I think is going to create a really simple base for you to be able to

maneuver around in 360 degrees , to be able to kind of change angles and change situations , to build on and move easily . And so I would say that's a pretty simple base to start with , easily at Home Depot get a small piece of plywood cut and then screw in the little PVC ringer at the bottom and then a PVC pipe on top .

You can use metal , you can use plastic , whatever you want , but that at least gives you some base . I would say another thing that would be easy is some chicken wire , which or fencing that will come in multiple thicknesses and densities to where you can manipulate it and really bend it around and create that flat on something .

And then plaster is a really easy place to start . It's messy . You're going to get plaster everywhere because you're dipping it in water and you're smoothing out on the chicken wire . You're going to get plaster everywhere because you're dipping it in water and you're smoothing out on the chicken wire .

But when I was trying to figure out the best way to start something inexpensively and easy , plaster and chicken wire seemed to be the easiest .

Now you can also buy sculpture foam just like a really dense and hard foam , that's kind of green or blue , that you can shave and cut and mold and manipulate , and a lot of that sometimes is used for casting and different things . Wax is another option to create things that you can cast to create molds out of later .

But I would say , get on YouTube and just start searching beginning sculptures , beginning bases for sculptures . That's what I did and then I kind of built up a lot of information for me to kind of start on . But I would say , how do I begin an abstract sculpture ?

You begin , just like Nathan said in the last one , if you're thinking it , it's time to go , it's time to get rolling on it . And I know that T is starting to really add a lot of sculptural elements into his artwork with cloth and different kind of bunched up canvas and things like that . So I know , t , that your mind is moving , it's moving you somewhere .

Your mind is moving , it's moving you somewhere . So if it's already going , like Nathan said , if it's moving and you keep coming back to it , which I see in your work .

Speaker 1

It's time to go ahead and start . Yeah , he and I messaged not too long ago about a joint compound , so just another version of plaster , essentially . I think you know it's funny when we're talking about abstract sculpture too . I think it's important to realize , like the chicken or egg relationship between the base and the what . What the base holds .

Yeah , go either direction . Right , like with an abstract piece , we may not know where the , where the base even needs to live , or where the how the weight's going to be distributed until we know , you know , kind of , what it's going to be . I would just add to what you said , ty , like , start small and start with what's accessible and nearby .

Right , like you can make a sculpture with used bubble gum and a paper clip and start there you know , and then scale up as you go , a couple of my favorite materials , since you threw some really good suggestions out there . I always forget if it's E3000 or E6000 . It's an industrial adhesive that you can get at any .

They sell it at craft stores , art stores , home improvement stores . Your Lowe's , your Home Depot's have them as well . But it is a bulletproof adhesive that dries overnight and it'll hold .

I mean , it is tremendous and I've been told by somebody who works in the archival or conservatory space that it is considered to be archival because it lasts freaking ever Awesome that's good to know . And it's super , super affordable as well .

The other thing on the wire side , just because I have explored every nook and cranny of Home Depot , the wire that you find in the welding area is super like a soldering wire is very bendable , yeah , very bendable , more so than your traditional yeah , so that's . That's something else . That's that's fairly affordable you can play with as well .

Our next question comes from Daryl . Daryl writes and I'm gonna shorten this it was a longer question so I'm gonna abbreviate it a little bit .

But hi guys understand the importance of routine and showing up in the studio to grow and build a body of work , but when I get discouraged I lean on a secondary source of income and skip days and even weeks sometimes from the studio . It's a vicious circle .

But it also fuels a sort of imposter syndrome because I feel if I don't need to get in the studio , that sort of can't live without it . I have to create art passion Then . Well , perhaps being an artist is not for me .

I feel very lucky that I get to paint , but self-doubt and genuine questions about whether it's genuinely as meaningful and enjoyable as it might be perceived by non-artists causes me to question whether it is the most important use of my time .

I feel very lucky that I get to paint , but self-doubt and genuine questions about whether it's genuinely as meaningful and enjoyable as it might be perceived by non-artists causes me to question whether it is the most important use of my time . Okay , there's a lot here , ty . There's a few different veins that we can unpack .

I think it's a valuable question for us to explore .

Navigating the Artist's Journey

There are a couple of parts that stick out to me specifically , and I'm just going to begin where the question ends , which is question whether it's the most important use of my time . Okay , so that's thing one . There's a practical aspect to that .

Another thing that stuck out to me about this question is the consideration of what being an artist might be like , or might be perceived like , by non-artists . There's the whole secondary source of income , which leads me to believe , of course , that there's a financial element to this in terms of looking to art to produce a version of income .

So all of these little things that stuck out to me lead me back to and I guess I'll just focus on one in particular the whole best use of my time , and I was thinking about this one before we started recording today and I pulled something off the wall . This has been on my wall for a while there .

This is a quote from the Artist's Journey by Steven Pressfield . This is something that I have had on my wall for years , even before , actually yeah , well before I started art or decided to pursue art full time , and I needed to read this a bunch of times before I took the leap , but it goes like this . I'll just read it Are you a born writer ?

Were you put on earth to be a painter , a scientist , an apostle of peace ? In the end , the question can only be answered by action . We'll come back to that . Do it or don't do it . It may help to think of it this way .

If you were meant to cure cancer or write a symphony or crack cold fusion and you don't do it , you not only hurt yourself , even destroy yourself , you hurt your children , you hurt me , you hurt the planet , you shame the angels who watch over you and you spite the almighty who created you and only you with your unique gifts , for the sole purpose of nudging

the human race one millimeter farther along its path back to God . Creative work is not a selfish act or a bid for attention on the part of the actor . It's a gift to the world and every being in it . Don't cheat us of your contribution . Give us what you've got . Yep , all right .

So the reason why this stuck out to me so profoundly when I first read it , and why I feel like it applies directly to this question is there's a I want to call it a compulsion , but that has kind of a negative connotation to it .

There's a , there's a pull , there's a , there's a necessity of if we have something in us to say that has to get out , then we we have to , we have to find a way to do something with it .

Now , whether that is a side hobby that you set aside and do on your whenever , whenever the spirit moves you , it could be that , yeah , it could be doing it for all of your waking hours , apart from the handful that you're doing . Right , in the end , the question can only be answered by action Do it or don't do it .

And so , again , not knowing Daryl or where Daryl's coming from , or anything other than the question itself , based on what little we know , I would say that , if it's not that like I have to get this out of me , feeling it may be time to reconsider , not whether or not to make art you should but your relationship to making art and the role that it plays in

your life in particular .

Speaker 2

I want to suggest another book to Daryl . You need to read this Rilke's Letters to a Young Poet . I suggest this to everybody .

But this is such a great question because because I don't want you to struggle with doubt in such a way that it stifles what you may have to give , like Nathan just said , because so many artists are leaning on a secondary , a third , a fourth source of income to make art .

You say you have the importance of routine and showing up in the studio to grow and build your body work . You know that and you get discouraged . Well , why are you getting discouraged ? Let's stop and answer those questions . I can't answer them for you . But what's discouraging to you ? Is it the work is not getting where you want it to go ?

Is it that you're not selling work ? Is it that you're having a difficult time getting into galleries or you can't find the right fit for your work ? Like what is it that is ? Is I mean , is it something that maybe you're really doubting and questioning personally that yourself that's then becoming resistance and affecting your work and your time in the studio ?

You know , those are things that obviously Nathan and I can't answer and we're not going to attempt to answer those . But I think there really needs to be that introspection of what is it that is discouraging me , what is it that's causing this frustration and this doubt , to make me wonder if I should even do this .

You know , and I don't know what that is , but maybe it's like finding those other areas of soul care within the secondary income and the studio practice that just feeds that joy outside of those things . So when you come back into the studio you have this renewed love and this renewed passion for creating .

Speaker 1

So yeah , I think that's an excellent point , ty , and I think that it really does .

You know , Daryl , you kind of answered your own question in the question if I don't need to get into the studio that sort of can't live without it I have to create art passion , then perhaps being an artist is not for me , or at least this thought pattern will continue to get in the way of developing .

Speaker 2

How much do you love it , daryl ? I think that at the end of the day , those are the questions we need to sit and ask ourselves . Do I love this so much that I , if I was a lot ? This is what Rilke says to the young poet If you're the last person on earth , would you still lay awake at night and say I must do this . That's an absolute love for it .

What are your priorities with it ? What are you trying to do ? If your sole reason for making art and I'm just guessing , I'm not saying anything If your sole reason is just to make a ton of money and live a luxurious lifestyle or something , then probably not in it for the love of art .

You have got ulterior focuses here , so I don't know what your focus is .

Speaker 1

There are way easier ways to make money .

Speaker 2

Yeah , absolutely . A lot easier ways to absolutely If you're going to be doing something that you're not going to love anyway , yeah yeah for sure . So I don't know . Maybe you just need to sit there and really ask yourself how much do I love this ?

And if it's like I just love making art every now and then and I love the other job that I do too , then just keep going about it , Keep doing it .

Then it's not a big deal , it's fine , it's okay , Like I think , when we start really perceiving how the outside world is viewing what we're doing and how we're living and doing these things is when we start getting in trouble in our heads .

So when we start looking outward rather than inward , that's when all those kind of doubt and fear questions really start to creep in . So I don't know , how much do you love it ?

Speaker 1

Yeah , I think just that's an excellent point Just taking the time to reconsider what your relationship with art is and then aligning whatever actions are necessary with your goals and your purpose around . That would be a very valuable use of your time , for sure . Next question comes from Samantha . Do you know Samantha ? I don't , I don't think so . Samantha Lasson .

How do I get into the Pooch Cove residency with y'all Winky emoji , winky face ? The broad question also tips for applying to any residency how to best prepare mentally , pack for it , use the time while there .

Speaker 2

Okay yes , I know this is a question that probably a lot of you have in your heads Tips for applying to any artist residency , which there are multiple levels of artist residencies .

I'm not going to get into that here , but if you're applying to an artist residency , they're going to ask a lot of questions , so you're going to have to fill out an application form , no-transcript . You know things about your work and how you create . How are you going to use your time while you're here ?

Research the heck out of that residency before you even apply is number one . Are you a good fit for that residency ? If you find a residency that looks great and for the last three years , every artist that's been in there is a sculptor and you're a painter they may not be looking for painters right now . So look at the past residents .

I always go onto a residency website . Usually I'm on Artenda , but there's also Trans Artists and Res Artists . Those are three great websites to look for residencies . We'll put them in the show notes , but I go through and I look at who are the former residents , who are the alumni , what work were they creating , who are they ?

I also go and sometimes I'll ask questions . I'll shoot an Instagram message to one of those resident artists that were there prior and go how was your experience ? Did you enjoy it ? What did you get out of it ?

Just to kind of build dialogue under , just something I want to do , because usually you're going to have to pay for your flight , you're going to have to pay for your food and you're probably going to have to pay for your supplies . That's not all residencies , but most residencies will offer you the free board and a studio .

Residencies will offer you the free board and a studio , but you're gonna have to pay for your travel and things . The more competitive residencies that are really difficult to get into will give you a travel stipend and pay for everything else . So those are really tough to get into , but they all have the same application process . So make sure to research .

What is this residency about ? Do you fit ? Look at their mission statement , look at their vision statement . Do you fit into that ? Well then , bring some of that conversation into who you are and why you create work and how . You'll be a great fit of the way that they operate and what they are all about within their mission and then gosh pack .

It all depends . Is it in France and you're coming from California ? Is it in Utah and you're coming from California ? Is it in Utah and you're coming from Texas ? Well then , you can drive all your stuff out there , right ?

So you kind of have to think accordingly Can I order art supplies in the place where I'm going and have them shipped there , so that I don't have to bring them with me ? I brought a snowboard bag to Canada on my last residency .

A number of us did ski bags full of canvas and then we ordered paint and had paint shipped to Pooch Cove , the residency we're at . So plenty of different ways to pack . And when you're there this is my biggest suggestion for anybody that does an artist residency Don't start working right away . Don't start working the second you get there .

Spend some time in that culture , in that community , outdoors , in nature . Spend some time soaking this new life , this new space in , because you're going to start working and it's going to change . You're in a new place . You're out of your day-to-day routine . You're away from family or friends . You're away from your city or town that you're always in .

You're in a new place . Residencies create new ideas . Be completely open to be patient and take time before your work .

Speaker 1

That's the best advice I can give you . So , speaking of residencies , let's go ahead and close out today's Q&A episode with a question from somebody who was with you at the last residency , audrey Cha . Audrey asks what are your best tips to stay consistent with studio practice ?

When it's only part-time , sharing with another job and kids I struggle so hard to take time in the studio when everything takes over Will take literally all advices . I realize I work steadily for a few weeks , then stop like I would at the gym , so hard to go back when I'm out of it for a few days and weeks .

You know I'll go ahead and take first pass at this tie

Seasonal Nature of Life and Art

. I think that you know everything's seasonal . I don't know why that just popped in my mind . That's not actually not the note that I added , but it's just like . But it is like . Every everything in life is is seasonal .

There are seasons for everything , and and and things tend to be very cyclical , and so I think that let's just talk about the kid thing for a moment . I happen to be in a season right now . Our oldest is graduating from high school , so I'm in a season where most of my time working is spent working on the house to get everything ready for her .

You know , graduation party . She plays one sport very intensely that that just wrapped up and they had sections and they , they made a pretty deep run into the into the post-season . So there were games almost every day that started at , you know , one , 33 , three , 30 , like it was just a season where that was , you know , gonna gonna be the , the priority .

And so I think that it's important to for me as a , as a father anyway , for me to acknowledge that , in terms of seasons , I have the God willing , the rest of my life to make art , but only in my case , in a way , a very , very short , short window to spend with my kids .

I suspect years are younger , but but I do think it's important to just like think about the seasonal nature of like this is a season where this is a priority , or just acknowledging like I'm not going to have as much studio time as I , as I normally would .

I think the other part I love the gym metaphor , the gym , the gym analogy , that last part of like so hard to go back when I'm out of it for a few days and a few weeks , yeah , so I think a lot about streaks when it comes to habits that I want to maintain and develop , whatever they , whatever they might be , you know , health , wise , nutritional .

You know , working out , reading , financial , like all the , all the habits that we know are important , that you know , very few of which are super fun or enjoyable .

How can we string days together where we sort of check the box , right , yeah , and so I think one of the best pieces of advice when it comes to physical training and going to the gym is just walk in the door . Yep , that is the hardest part is just starting to work out right . So very rare .

I mean , I've never walked in the gym and just did one set and left , but I've definitely had a lot of days where I didn't walk in the gym in the first place to get started Right , and I think the studio is exactly the same way .

Where , and it's especially important a little trick that I've learned to plan myself is when my definition for success for a day in the studio is just that I walked in and made one mark , and it could be . I think I made a mark today .

You know , I touched a piece today and I manipulated it in some microscopic way , like that counts , and some days that leads to way . Most days for me that leads to way more than I than I would have thought , but some days it doesn't . I still give myself the check .

I still give myself the little gold star in the grid to say I showed up today and I did what I could with the time that I had , even if that time is is very limited . The last little thing I would throw out there , do you know does does Audrey have a dedicated studio space outside her home , At the home , in her home ?

Speaker 2

but she has a dedicated space in the house .

Speaker 1

Yes , yeah , yeah , perfect , perfect , okay .

So I was just going to add , like I , with my studio being separate from the house , one thing I found is that if I I've got little side experiments and little side projects going on in little corners of the house where I don't have a full , obviously , studio , that I , that I that I have here , so I can always do a little something , something on the side .

Yeah , you know , even if I can't get into the studio for a full , you know , whatever session it's very diff .

Speaker 2

This is such a great question for all artists , but part of the problem sometimes too is when our studio is a home studio .

Inside the house there isn't a separation between all those other things , right , the job , the kids , the coming home , when you're tired , having a mess , you need to clean up or keep things in order or straight , like when all those things blend with the studio .

This is a little more difficult for those artists who have the separation of house and studio , where you can go to and leave and come back . And so there was a former mentee from my program a few years ago same thing in the house and so I suggested maybe you need to go outside and come back in to go to the studio , because it almost feels like you're .

And I read this

Maintaining Studio Focus and Inspiration

somewhere . Actually , this isn't my idea . This is something I read in a book that said if your office is at home before you go to work in the morning , grab your cup of coffee , go outside the door , stand outside for a minute , come back in . So it's giving your brain the idea of leaving and then showing up . That's just a simple idea .

May work , may not , but that's something . But it's gosh . Like Nathan said , it's just , you know when you need rest . You know when you're so worn out you need rest . Take the rest , find that soul care moment , like I suggested to somebody earlier . But you know , sit outside by the pool , sit out in the backyard , read a little bit . Get an art book , read .

Sit and read a new book , read ninth street women . Find something that just keeps your head studio focused . Even if he can't be in the studio because it just feels kind of grindy at the moment , keep your head studio focused . By reading and studying and researching . You're going to find a moment of inspiration where you'd want to get back .

You know , and that's the hard part . The hard part with the gym analogy is when you don't go for a few weeks , you don't go for a few months , yep . Same thing with the studio . You stop , you start not going regularly .

That regularly becomes a whole lot more regular and then all of a sudden the doubt gets even stronger and then you get even further away from the things you're wanting to do . And then that entry back in is so frustrating and so difficult because that time away has taken some , taken some things away that you have to work back to , just like at the gym .

You're away from the gym for six months , you're starting from scratch . You're going to be really sore , you're going to be really tired , you may get sick because your immune system gets low . There's all these combinations because you've been away for so long . That happens with art too .

We all know we go on vacation , we're gone for a week or two weeks , we come back to the studio and we kind of fumble around for a little bit . I don't even know where to start right now . Did I lose it ? Do I even still have it ?

So the best advice , like Nathan said , just walk in the door , just go in , even if , like we talked about , just sit and look and breathe and meditate for a while . If you need to , to get yourself , kind of work , back into that state where you're starting , just make some marks . Make some marks , throw some paint , whatever you need to do .

Speaker 1

Yeah , you're really good at that .

That's one of the things I've observed and learned from the way that you sort of manage your time and manage your studio practice , I know , with some of the things that have kept you at home , whether they be health or puppy related or you know whatever else , like you know , when we catch up yeah , yeah , I'm reading , I'm editing , I'm journaling , right Like

you're you're doing those things that are still keeping you sort of in the game . But there's so many little . I just I like the idea of you know we kind of have to trick ourselves . You know our mind is not our friend . Our brains are not on our team . In most cases , you know , it's telling us all sorts of nasty little stories .

Yeah , resistance , it's tough Resistance , and there are a lot of little tricks that we can play on ourselves . I remember working from home and I would , I would actually take it a step further than walking outside .

I would drive to local coffee shop with my laptop , and that was my , you know , whatever my time to sort of like get set for the day , only to then , you know , drive back and do the office related activities . But there are a lot of different things that we can do to , even if we're not able to physically be making work , to be engaged with it .

One of the things that I little tricks that I played on myself recently is how can I maximize time when I'm otherwise not doing anything else and would naturally default to scrolling , you know , on Instagram or doing something else that's not super productive . And so I've started to like . I spent a lot of time in the sauna .

That's a big part of my like recovery and does a lot , a lot of good things . But in the infrared sauna , which is not as hot , I can have a device in , like my iPad . I can actually be looking at photos of works in progress and sort of like processing , almost as if I was sitting with it , and then journaling , like .

I'm known at the place that I go to as the weird guy that's always journaling and writing in the sauna . But that's , you know , that's a , that's a trick . That's a place where I can . I can do some of the intellectual , the head and the heart work to then come back in the studio being like hell , yeah , here we go .

Right , I already have momentum before walking in the door because of that time that I've spent with the work and thinking about what's next .

Speaker 2

Well and listen , there are things you can do that are studio centric and not be in the studio Like all day . Yesterday I was on Artsy and I was researching galleries all day . That's all I did for probably six and a half hours I was on Artsy . I was going through up and coming contemporary galleries , galleries that focus on painting .

I was looking at different cities and areas . Then I was going to that gallery's website . I was looking at different cities and areas , Then I was going to that gallery's website . I was looking at their about , I was looking at their space , I was looking at their roster and then I was researching every one of the artists on their roster .

If it had the staff . I was looking up all the staff , I was looking at the work they all like and then I was adding to my spreadsheet . Is this somebody I should pitch to ? Is this somebody I need to go visit ? Is this a gallery that I could fit in ? And I started and it spent six and a half hours doing that yesterday .

It's tedious but , man , it got me fired up to get back in the studio and make some work because it's just adding to my list .

Speaker 1

Yeah , I'm confused , I'm confused . Are you telling me that you're going to the art world versus the art world knocking down your door ? Yeah , you have to . Yeah , I'm being , I'm being , I'm being a smart ass .

Speaker 2

but absolutely no , I get it . But it ties into all this q a . That's so many of our questions , right ? Yeah , how do I get , how do I find , how do I ? I mean it's like , well , you have to get , you have to find , you have to drive it . Yeah , yeah , the art world searching . They are , yes , they are .

Is the art world looking at Instagram profiles of artists ? Yes , they are , they're watching , they're looking . But if you're just sitting around and waiting for somebody to find you on Instagram probably gonna take you a long time to get in the art world . Gotta be looking , gotta be researching , gotta be .

I mean and when I say research , it's not just I like that gallery . That's cool . No , it's going deep . It's going deep . How long have they been ? Around Two years , five years , 10 years , 10 years ? That's an established gallery . That's rare . That is rare . It's a handful of galleries that last a really long time . They're usually two to three years .

It's like a restaurant , right , restaurant life is really short . New restaurants popping up everywhere , so it's like how long have they been there ? How many staff ? It's just two people . That's a small gallery . That roster is not going to be very big . It's going to be hard to break into . They have 40 or 50 artists . Well , that's a really big roster .

Am I just going to get lost in the shuffle or does that mean it's a great fit for me to pitch to ? I mean , listen , those are the things we can do , and we're really struggling to get in the studio , really struggling to get in and make work .

Well then , spend a whole day researching galleries , spend a whole day reaching out to artists you love on instagram who are at the same level as you , and building a network of artists that you can connect to regularly , like .

These are all great answers to so many of your questions , and we had we had a number of other questions that kind of fell into the same range as these questions that we answered . So if we didn't read your question , your question probably fit into one of the ones that we read already , and then we just didn't have enough time to really get into everybody's .

But this is going to be reoccurring every season . We're going to do some q and a's and and answer questions , and so , uh and I think nathan mentioned this last time we'd love to know some of the context behind some of your questions too . So if you ask a question maybe say , hey , I'm a beginning artist , I'm just starting out .

This is why or even like Jen's that we read earlier I'm in . I have shows coming up which she's emerging , so she's not just starting out . But I'm also would like to know about this . Let us know some context where you are in the art world , where you fit and what your goals are . It really helps us answer even better .

Speaker 1

Absolutely . And as we close for today , let's also add that we would love to discuss your thoughts on any previous episodes . We would love to actually just thinking of this too , ty . We talked about this before , but I don't think we've asked for our listeners to submit ideas of quotes that we should discuss .

Yeah , ty and I are just two people with our own perspectives , but would love to hear suggestions on different quotes that you would love for us to break down and slash , or your thoughts or your takeaways on previous episodes where you read a quote or take something new or different to introduce to the conversation .

Would love to hear your thoughts on those as well . So keep them coming .

Promoting Social Media Engagement

We would love the comments on the Instagram posts , the DMs . Where are other places where people can message us , ty ?

Speaker 2

Obviously , the YouTube comments is a great place . Spotify you can if you're a Spotify listener , and we'd also love it If you would give us a review . If you would give us a review or rate us on Apple or Spotify , that would be absolutely fantastic , cause those things help .

Speaker 1

They help us Look at you yeah , I mean , look at you doing the thing that somebody wants to grow podcast would actually remember to do on a regular basis . Nice work .

Speaker 2

Love it . Go listen to some Nirvana today and we'll see you next time . The National Love it . Two great bands , Two of my faves actually . Bye you .

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