¶ Art Validation and Feedback
Oh , hey , everybody , Welcome to Just Make Art . We're excited to be here with you today .
This podcast is a conversation about making art and the artist journey with myself , tinyathan Clark , and my good friend Nathan Turborg , and we're just two artists trying to navigate the art world just like you , and we're excited to bring you some new quotes to discuss today and really excited .
Yeah , this is one we've been talking about for a little while and I'm really excited about this . So we're going to start off . We get a couple quotes from a couple of artists of different types to share today , but this is from a Roka quote that , yeah , I'm just going to read it and we'll jump off from there . So this is from letter one .
This is from letters to a young poet , and this is the very first correspondence , or his reply to Franz Kappa , the young 19 year old student who was seeking advice from Roka . You ask in that letter if your poetry is good . You ask me you've already asked other people . You send in your poems to magazines . You compare them to other poems .
You're upset when this or that editor rejects your efforts . So now , since you've asked for my advice , here is what I want you to do Stop all that . You are looking outward and that , more than anything , is what you should not be doing . No one can help you or give you advice no one . The only thing to do is go into yourself . Ty , let's talk about it .
Yeah , you know this is wow , you know , taking into context the fact that Rilke is taking the time to write 10 letters back to a young poet who went to the same military academy that he did . So they had some things in common and you know a lot in common , right ? So that decision of do I continue on in the military as a career or a career ?
Right , do I continue on this career or do I jump full force into being a poet or to being an artist ?
What we will discuss more and this you know when you look at Rilke , is one of the most famous poets and novelists from Austria in the late 1800s and early 1900s , and he's really , you know , he's considered a modern mystic , not just a poet and a writer , but also somebody who really believed in and lived a life of solitude as well .
He did have friends , he did have close correspondence and as a poet , you know , there's numerous incredible books that have inspired some of the greatest artists in history as well , from the book of hours and the rose window , his letters to Cezanne I highly recommend where he's actually writing his thoughts on the great master Cezanne's work .
And you know one of our favorite artists , you and I Saetwameli , very influenced by Rilke and he has verses of Rilke and the majority of his work as well , and , man , I'm excited to really just discuss . I mean , wow , go inward , let me tee you up with something you know and just let me throw something .
So this is something that I wrote down and this is this is relevant to you know how you and I , you know , initially got to know each other , which was , you know me , participating in your mentorship program .
So I wanted to talk about something related to the difference between validation , which I think the way I , whatever interpret this quote that we're discussing is his encouragement , is to you know , stop seeking out external validation .
So there's a fine line between seeking out validation , which we can agree is , is not a healthy way to make you know great art or to have a healthy , you know , self-esteem in the process . But feedback is important , right , right . So I was wondering if you could maybe talk about the difference between validation and feedback .
It seems to me it's a pretty fine line , you know , between the two . How do we ? You know what's the value , or or you know the negative aspect of of either , and you know how do we kind of tell if our , if our motivation for reaching out and asking for , you know , input from anything other than ourselves is , is useful .
Yeah , and you know , there there's some contradicting things within this quote that we're reading as well , right ? Because here is Rilke giving advice to the young poet and here he's saying don't listen to anybody else , just go and work , you know , and what he's really saying , like you said , is listen .
The whole world out there , the art world , is going to be telling you what to do . Right , the audience is going to be telling you what they like , what they see , and what he's really saying is Don't go looking for approval , don't just run out there and throw everything at the wind , which this other young poet was doing .
He was sending letters out to other people and he was getting upset when his work wasn't getting accepted into , you know , literary journals and things like that .
And so he's taking all this outside information and it's becoming resistance within his own work and it's fighting against the true creative nature that he's going to really find in his own solitude while he's creating .
And so , you know , I deal with this on a regular basis with a lot of my mentees and artists that I work with , and it's like it's so easy to compare and allow that comparison to tell you what you should be creating and how you should create rather than really spending that time in the studio developing who you are in your work and how you do it , and then
put your work out there , right .
Yeah , and I think you know so I was thinking even in terms of , or whatever . To put this in more modern terms , you think about the immediacy of the modern age .
You know , I could make something today and post it and get a lot or none or very little right , right , and if positive , or , you know , negative or anything , everything between you know a feedback of putting things on , you know , instagram or wherever it might be . So it's just kind of an interesting , I think , thing to consider to just how you know .
I mean , we're talking about , like they had a male correspondence , right , letters , right , and let's just take a moment to appreciate the craft of writing a thoughtful letter . I mean , that was one thing that he restates throughout is I wanted to take time and I wanted to consider , you know , my reply .
So there were sometimes weeks or months , you know , in between . You know correspondence , you know , whereas today it's the DMs and texts , and you know I think it's safe to say that . You know we're not going to see any great works of literature . They're going to come from anybody's .
You know text threads , it's just boom , right , it's immediate , you know so right . Anyway , I guess my point is you know what advice would you give her ? Or how do we , how do we navigate that Like there is something to be said for for sharing our work and putting it out there , and you know ?
But how do we sort of defend ourselves against the downside of , you know , seeking validation or you know what we may perceive as being , you know , negative feedback ?
Yeah , I mean it's just undue pressure . I mean there's just so much pressure today to perform and look good because of that immediacy of social media . You know the Instagram . I mean I , I'm at fault for it . I put undue pressure on myself because of it . You know , like in every resting moment , what artist isn't scrolling through Instagram today .
You know what I mean and it's like why ? Well , you're looking at work . You know what I mean . You're looking at who's doing what , what are they doing , what artists you know are doing something new , what's something exciting . Oh , you know . But then the problem is you get caught up while you're doing that and starting to compare yourself .
Right .
Right and you start looking at oh man , how , why is she getting so many accolades right now ? Oh , how did he pass me ? How did wow ? Her work is growing so fast . And then , all of a sudden , you start turning inward right and you're allowing all that pressure to go .
You suck , you're not good enough , you don't have the education , you don't have the skills , you don't understand medium . You know you look too much like X or Y or Z .
And so all of a sudden , you know , instead of just using that for inspiration and drive , to drive your passion , you're now allowing all that outside influence to take you away from your studio , right , rather than yourself allowing yourself to push into the studio .
Yeah , yeah , and I suspect we'll probably spend a whole you know episode on this at some point . But that Teddy Roosevelt quote of you know comparison , I said to fact check myself . It was indeed Teddy that said that . But comparison is a thief of joy , you know , yeah , and I mean , I've certainly experienced that where . I've .
You know I'm at the peak of having just made something that I feel represented what I was trying to say or what I was trying to do , you know , with a particular piece , and then you know just the natural human tendency to see oh well , so and so got so many . You know , whatever the metric is , you know likes , followers , you know , shows , etc .
You know , but it's very true , how , how , how toxic comparison , you know , can be . So I'm taking this off on a tangent that we don't need to spend time on , but I think it's worth worth camping on a little bit . Yeah , what else , you know , when you kind of unpack this , what else really jumps out to you ?
Well , I think you know , just piggybacking on what we just talked about , there's a danger of sharing , of showing too much , like today , because you know you look way back into , like Rilke's time or even the early 20 , you know Picasso's time , miro's time , even from the Impressionists and Burt Maudette , highly regarded female Impressionists that most people don't know
about that influenced the majority of the big . You know the big names that we know Degas and Monet and Manet , and so it's like they didn't have the ability to share all their work . You know what I mean . Like an art dealer or a salon dealer or somebody saw the work they liked and they grabbed that .
Then the world didn't see anything else , they just saw what was selected and put out there . You know there's hundreds of other paintings that never get seen .
Well , today there's this pressure I've got to show everything , I have to keep up with the algorithm , I got to keep posting work or I'm going to get lost in the shuffle , and so what happens is you have , you know , immature artwork that is constantly being thrown out to the world .
You know , because this pressure of I've got to just get a new painting up , I got to show it , you know , and I fall into that same , you know , failure of showing too much . I got a lot of really crappy work . I've posted in the last few years that I've gone back and taken down and gotten rid of from my feet and like why in the world did I share ?
I shared that because of pressure , not because I was truly confident in the work itself .
You know , and that can be a disservice to an artist , right , you make a stronger body of work and then you post a lot of weak work around it and the art world does look at Instagram Curators , art dealers , gallery owners the art world does look at Instagram , you know , and it's like when we're guided by the pressure of what we see around us and we're
comparing so much , we feel like we have to keep up . But maybe we don't need to . Maybe we can be really intelligent in how we share and how we process and do those things .
And I think it's important to highlight , like you said . I mean this is , you know , the pot called the kettle black Is that the saying , right ? I mean we both post , you know , daily room , almost daily , you know , because there is that it's certainly not a responsibility but pressure . I mean there's two sides of that coin though , too right .
I mean like we're in that time . You know getting seen required a number of you know filters and layers of approval from . You know , whatever , whoever was the governing body at the time , you know now that filter or those , you know whatever checkpoints or gates are a lot . You know fewer and farther between . So it's incumbent upon us to decide .
You know what we do or don't want to show . You know so , as the less experienced you know far less experienced of the two of us you know still , you know early in
¶ The Value and Impact of Feedback
deciding . You know what I share , what I don't share and what I . You know how much stock I put in the feedback that I do or don't get . You know .
Maybe could you talk about the other side of the coin , right , there is value to you know , to getting feedback , to getting advice , to you know how things do or don't land , and , yeah , could you talk about that .
Yeah , I mean at the end of the day I mean Jerry Saltz , you know , talks about this quite a bit like you can't just sit back in your studio and create work all the time . You eventually have to put it out there , right .
And so , yeah , there is that other side of the coin where you have to put your work out there to see how people respond to it , right . But at the end of the day , what I think what Rilke is telling the young poet is you know , don't let all that feedback influence you or change you , right , because it can 100% change us .
For the negative side of that , right , and we all have trolls , you know , in the art world people either love it or hate it . There's really no in between . So it's like you're going to get people that don't like it . You're going to get people that thumbs down it . You know what I mean , you too .
But I mean I get YouTube comments on a regular basis , right , that are my child could do that . You're terrible . Why are you making wallpaper ? You know there's better wallpaper at Bed , bath and Beyond than your work . You know I'll just buy that . So you know you're going to get those and those things . Can you know what I mean .
Yeah , I mean man , listen , we know the stories of celebrities or social media has . Like you know , we have social media influence . You know Mecca , you know in history , for the first time , and people are taking their lives Because of the pressure right Of this .
And it's like you can allow it to inspire you and you can take grains of salt from what is coming in , but don't let it affect you in a way that just discourages your work and , like Rilke says , the only thing to do is go into yourself .
We have to spend that time on ourselves as well and thinking and learning and studying and looking at our work and just being with our work . And , you know , put it out there , take things with the grain of salt , but listen to your artist friends more than you do . Just the audience , yeah , yeah , that's huge .
Well , it's a perfect segue probably into introducing , you know , the other quote that I think Debtail is really nice into this as we were preparing for this . You know we are both massive fans of Clifford still , and you just recently , was that your first visit , by the way , to the Denver , to the Clifford Center .
Yeah , my first visit to the .
Yeah , so my first visit was just this past summer . So you know , the biggest takeaway or thing that I wrote down when I was watching the documentary from a few years ago , lifeline , was , you know him saying go inward , what do you have to say ? Which obviously correlates directly to what we're talking about , you know from the Roca quote .
But I really like that because I think that there's just so much to be said for really considering and this is something as a young , you know artist who's definitely still just trying to figure things out , you know evaluating like , what am I trying to say here ? Am I just trying to paint pretty pictures ? Or , you know , do something that you know looks cool ?
What's in there ? You know what's kind of behind that ? Maybe , if you don't talk about your experience , you know seeing his work , or give some more context for him as an artist , that'd be great .
Yeah , well , for those that don't know Clifford , still get online and research . You've seen his work probably , and a lot of people may not even know who he is , but they've seen his work in museums or they've seen it in documentaries
¶ Exploring Artistic Expression and Personal Growth
. And an American painter and really one of the leading figures in the first generation of abstract expressionists and you know he's really credited with laying the groundwork for the movement , as his shift from representational to abstract painting occurred earlier than Jackson Pollock and Mark Rothko , which most people don't know .
And he was such , you know , a really not a recluse , but he really kept to himself and family and even though he was really prior in his work to those guys , he was really good friends with him as well and Rothko is the one that actually introduced him to Peggy Guggenheim . That really exploded his career in the art of the Century Gallery in 1946 .
And later on he joined Rothko in the Betty Parsons Gallery as well . So one of the few painters who combined color field paintings with gestural action paintings and you can see that in the work right color field , barrett Newman .
A lot of people say that really kind of Took what Clifford still was doing and created what we know is a lot of people call Barrett Newman the godfather of color field painting . But yet Clifford still was doing stuff before him in that way and man that quote going inward . Clifford still was a master of going inward for sure .
So Before I introduce the other Element that I want to discuss today , I wanted to ask you you know in terms of you know going inward . I would just wonder If you could talk about your experience with figuring out . You know what it is that you had to say a and then be Finding a way to say it . You know with your work .
Yeah , I think you know that quote from still going inward . You know , what do I have to say is really something that I've Spent a lot of time processing myself and thinking through and I Forget . I think it's probably five years ago . I had a solo show and I was a .
I gave a lecture about the work and the work was on memory and a lot of childhood memories , and really Practicing the art of remembering was the theme for the show , and I was able to just witness the power of an artist talking about his work and watch the faces as they started to grasp what I was trying to do as a poet , an Abstract artist .
And you know , I walked away from that show because there were some immense emotions in the audience and the work connected with everybody because of the story . And I walked away from the show and was thinking what does my work do and I'm not in the room ? How does it speak when I'm not in the room ?
Because obviously , when I'm in the room , they're connecting to the artist and then the work , right , yeah , rather than connecting to the work and the work alone . And so I Really spent a lot of time asking myself what can I do in my work to ensure that it really tells the story powerfully when I'm not there and I can't explain it .
Right , because that's the end goal . Right is finding out . If we want to say something with our work , well then the work has to say it . Right , we can't just paint and then hope , right , like we're always gonna hope . But I've put a lot of time and energy and thought . And how can I do it ?
What , what textures , what mediums , what things can I add To the pieces to create story ? And to create these things ? You know I sew in a lot of my work .
I use cardboard and cloth and extra pieces of canvas and things to like , really try to tell stories the way a poet , the way Roka would in a poem , and I think it's just spending a lot of time really thinking through your work , right , instead of just going and working , I feel like there should be a lot of thought , a Lot of energy that's put into thinking
about the work and how the work is speaking . That's just something that I've done for myself . Yeah , I love that .
I'm glad you brought poetry because that's one of the things I I really dig about your .
Your process is taking , you know , things that you've written , sometimes recently and sometimes right quite some time ago you did a series where you were Revisiting poetry that you'd written what 10 , 15 years , you know , 20 years previous yeah , that's that's the series right now , poems from 1995 to 2020 . Yeah .
So how do you um , whatever this is just a little tangent here , but I'm just curious .
So how do you , as you're making work today , with who you are in this moment , do you feel like you're Trying to tell a story of a different person because you were a different person then , or is it sort of like who you are today , your experiences and everything that's led to you know , your growth and development since then ? You know what I mean .
I'm not that . Yeah , I .
Mean .
¶ Solitude & Journaling
Honestly , it felt like I took out an old VHS tape and put it in the VCR right and it went in and the sound , you know it came on and it's got the , the V hold is all messed up and memories start to , you know , reoccur , but you know they existed , but you don't really feel what you're watching yet .
But then you get transported back and I mean I literally pulled out a stack of I don't know how many 60 , 70 journals and notebooks of full of poems from that time and I just started reading from 1995 and Reading all the poems through and then I'd mark ones that were good .
Yeah , there's a lot of horrible , very Overly romantic , you know , falling in love poems and things that that were really bad and poorly written , which is like our art . And we look ten years ago . We say our art like , oh you know , and I selected the ones that really had deep importance and then I just started painting .
So I didn't really go with this poem's going to be this painting . I just kind of started painting these thoughts and ideas and as work was being developed , that one poem would jump in my head and I'd go oh , wow , this , this piece ended up blue , with these ripples of canvas folded around it and the way the marks looked .
It reminded me of , you know , 1998 , an ocean beach , san Diego , talking about Bosquiat on the letters where Coronado spelled out in the sand , with my buddies , and there was a poem I wrote at that time and then that poem kind of matched . You know that piece . So a lot of going inward for sure .
And I think that's you know , that's one of the things I'm sure we can talk more about this in another episode but just the value of collecting thoughts and collecting ideas , you know , as I mean you're really reviewing little , little time capsules , you know of where you were and where you were , what was going on in your life at that moment .
I think you know . One of the things that I found to be real valuable is is journaling .
I mean , it's just a good , good habit to be , in general , as a human being who's always going to have all varieties of random crap and things bouncing around in our heads and our hearts that you know , we may or may not be , you know aware of , or or you know able to process properly . I found that to be the case , you know , certainly for me .
So that's , I think . Something to that I found to be useful is to you know , really think about , you know what I'm trying to say and then and then write about it .
You know , maybe it's a poem , maybe it's just , you know random thoughts , you know artist's way , julia Cameron , just dumping style , but either way , there's certainly something to be said for processing that , you know , before trying to , you know , convert it into an individual . You know communication or conversation .
Well , yeah , we're . We're documentary documentarians of what we do , right ? Austin Cleon talks about that in his book show your work . And it's like you know , man , journal , take notes . I always encourage other artists journal the hell out of everything . Why , like Chuck Close says , inspiration is for amateurs . The rest of us go to work .
We are going to lack inspiration more times than we're going to have it as artists . So journal and write notes of ideas and you know , bodies of work , styles of work , so you can always go back in those moments when you know I don't believe in writer's block , like you know . I know that exists .
That means I'm not inspired to create , nothing's coming out , but I don't believe in it because I've got stacks of journals of ideas and thoughts and memories and poems and all these things that I continue , right , so that in the moments when I can't think of anything , I just go through my journal and they're all labeled .
So they're labeled ideas for artwork , for video art , for film , for book outlines . You know when I go through and I go , oh wow , I forgot about that . Okay , let's go ahead and create a body work on this .
Yes , you may not be inspired at that moment , but you certainly have been inspired at some point , and because you had the discipline to capture those things you get the ability to then convert them in moments when you need to drop on them .
So the thing I want to talk about , and one of the things that Roka and Still definitely had in common , was their commitment to isolation and , just frankly , being alone . Since we're on Still , I wanted to read something from . This is a book of his work , the late works , but so he wrote this in 1962 after settling in to his place in Maryland .
So he wrote my setup here has arrived at a point which permits me to relax a bit . The house is comfortable and a big studio is ready to work in any warm day . The isolation has proven reinvigorating to an extent I had not imagined . The fresh air has strengthened the spirit and cleared away tensions that never should have been born .
So I really want to focus in on that , on that idea . The isolation has proven reinvigorating . Now , as a hardcore introvert , I'm like say no more . You know that my heart sings when I hear somebody talk about and sing the praises of solitude and being alone . I wanted to connect that to something from letter seven , from letters to a young poet .
So Roka wrote in your lonely solitude , I like your cover better . Yeah , it's an old one , it's prettier . In your lonely solitude , you mustn't be confused by the fact that something inside you wants to escape it . This very wish , if you use it calmly and deliberately as a tool , will help you extend your solitude over a vast space .
Now , so here's , I'm going to call myself out a little bit and then I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this .
So I have no problem , you know , being alone , in fact , I go to great lengths to try and protect , you know , the time that I get to be by myself , to create , or do you know , pretty much anything else where I struggle and where I really , where this one really hits home for me is the idea of using that solitude and being in silence .
Right , so , as comfortable as I am with physical isolation , you know , I guess you'd call it mental isolation would be one way of putting it . But you know I have a tendency to look to other inputs , right , so , having the earbuds in to listen to , I mean good stuff , right . Books , podcast , music , whatever , where have you ?
You know , but anytime I'm putting something in , it means I'm not listening , I'm not sitting in stillness , you know I'm . I'm distracting myself from , you know , being present to whatever is going on . But yeah , I guess what's your experience with that or what are your thoughts on ?
anybody above . Yeah , I mean , man , this is something I talked to my artist . I call my artist because I love you guys so much . All my men and women all over the world that have been a part of my mentorship program just mean the world to me , but this is something I talk about with them on a regular basis .
God , I mean you're going to be with yourself more than anybody . As an artist , you are , period , like you're going to spend a lot of deep moments of isolation and solitude , especially if you're blessed enough to work as an artist full time and not have , you know , a side job where you're your own patron , working another job or actually around other people .
Solitude , or with ourselves a lot . Most people , to be honest , don't like themselves . You know what I mean , and so there's there's a lot of healing that also you need to be open to in your isolation as an artist , because when you're creating , what are you doing ?
You're going into the depths of your soul to make something right , and it's like you're going to spend a lot of time thinking through things that affect you from your past life , whether parents that told you you're not good enough , siblings who are , you know , a pain in the ass , teachers who were just jerks .
You may have experienced serious trauma , addictions , all kinds of things . Right , these are all things that you know . As you read in the war of art from Stephen Pressfield . These things are not allowed in your studio . These things should not hamper you . These things come up from a different place . The place that you create from is pure . It's your true self .
All those other things can get in an effect , completely infect and affect what you're doing and working on in your solitude . I always tell you know , my mentee is , when you open that door to go to create , you leave that stuff outside . They're not allowed in , they're not a part of who you are .
When you make art , right , it may be part of your art , it may influence what you're doing , whether it's for healing or telling stories , to help others , whatever but those things can affect you .
So that solitude we have to find time to breathe , to be silent , to listen , turn the music off in the studio and sit with your work and just listen and breathe and look . It's so , so important , not only for yourself but just for the process of making art and listening to the art .
Yeah , yeah , I wanted to read . I love that . I want to read the rest of that quote .
Yeah .
With a . I'm leaving a few , a couple sentences out in between , but this is a continuation of what I just read a moment ago . There is not much we know for sure , but one certainty that will never abandon us is that we must remain with what is difficult . It is good to be alone , because being alone is hard .
The fact that something is hard is one more reason for us to do it . Yeah , I just , I think , just kind of like you said something that you just shared that really resonates as well as just the importance of listening .
If we're talking , if we're allowing other inputs to distract us , then it means that we're not listening to really what's going on , and that's going to be really difficult to communicate anything intentionally when we don't know what we got going on inside or what it is that we're trying to get out in the first place .
¶ Listening and Growing as an Artist
This is advice from us , right ? These are things that we've learned from our own experience , right ? So anything that I'm saying you know I'm not saying this is how to do it .
This is what I've learned has really , really worked for me as an artist and has really helped me in the studio , you know , because , sure , there are artists that just go in and make no thoughts about it . They just have wonderful , wonderful skills to create fantastic art . They just go in and create , you know .
But I really do think that the maturation process of an artist is learning to listen and listen to the work and really speak to it and let it speak to you .
And I'm telling you , I read a lot of books and I read a lot of artist journals from the past and man , they all listen to the work and they spend a lot of time , male and female , across the board , every country , every culture . You know what I mean .
They spent that time breathing and feeling the work and listening to it and letting it speak and really looking right . It's easy to just go in and paint , right , but that maturation and that growth process for an artist , I truly feel like starts that you're just making and as you grow .
You learn to listen and make talk and make listen , look , and art informs you . That's why I always say go , look at art , go to galleries , go to museums Every chance you get . Look , look , look , look . You know Jerry Salt says don't just look at the work you like , look at the work you hate . Yeah , ask yourself why you hate it .
Like all this time spent looking informs how you listen and how your work will also speak to you . Like that's just growing up , right ? I'm talking age , I'm talking maturation as an artist . That's just growing up . It's learning those things that really help you grow up .
Well , that applies to what you're reading too . You know , it's one thing just to read , you know , and get confirmation of what you already believe to be true , you know . But it's another thing to read things that you maybe don't disagree with or identify . All right , that doesn't agree disagree , forget about it , whatever .
That doesn't resonate with me , why does that not , you know ? I mean , it's the same thought process of really evaluating , you know what connects and what doesn't , and then using that , as you know , potential fuel for you know what is it we want to put out into the world . That's probably a good place to end . You have anything else on this one ?
No , I mean . All I want to say go to Denver . Or if you're you know , if you have a trip to Denver , make sure to go see the Clifford still museum there . It's a fabulous I mean , I was blown away Incredible museum . I love when museums actually have storage open with windows so you can actually look in and see where the , where the work is stored .
And that's one of my favorite things the Broad has the areas where you can actually look in and see . You know the storage and stuff there in LA . But go to the still museum . It's fantastic . Watch Lifeline , the Clifford still dock Absolutely incredible . I put up a . I just want to share .
A fun thing is I actually put up a video from when I was at the still museum and one of Clifford still's grandchildren sent me a message and thanked me for putting it up , because I put Beethoven to Clifford still's work in the video and she said you honored my grandfather so well . He was a huge Beethoven and would have loved seeing this video .
And I was just going what ? How are you kidding me ? How in the world ? So I just had to share that because I feel like that's pretty , that is super cool . Yeah , and I we should actually look and see . I don't know if we saw the same . You know collection because they turn .
I mean there's really no , there's no other museum like that in existence that has that high of a percentage of and I don't know what it is . I mean , it's what is it ? 70 , 80% of all of us finished works .
It's incredible that they own Larger because of how you know specific he was in his terms and expectations of his work being shown
¶ Review of a Documentary and Book
.
We won't . We won't give a spoiler away , for for that you have to see the doc , I want my .
I love the door distraction that was one of my favorite quotes .
I want my work to be seen without the distraction of other of other work . Wow , but it's something you know to be fair , like that's you know when you get to experience it , it's really something else and definitely if you haven't yet , you know you've got to be able to experience it .
It's really something else and definitely if you haven't yet you know , this book is is absolutely family .
There's dozens of different excerpts that we could talk about , and probably at some point in the road . So , all right , well , that will wrap up for today and yeah , join us next time on . Just make art , we'll see ya .