Yo, you guys will not believe where we talked about on this week's podcast. Does marriage make you more valuable? SIS. Are you waiting for that man to marry you? So you felt like a complete person I'm here to tell you right now that your value is inside of you and it doesn't come from another person. It doesn't come from another thing. It's not in that house. It's not in that car is not in that job is not in that man that you've been messing with for five years.
And won't commit to you, uh, Right, which were a handclap. Jesus, whichever. So Lord Jesus of fire, your value, your happiness is definitely an inside job is not inside of the word marriage or what you think. We don't have all the right answers for what marriage looks like or what it should be. I have some funny stories. We have some different perspectives and you're going to find something that is relatable in there. We're here to let you know you are not alone. You got to share it.
You're going to find something that's relatable likable and you've probably laugh a little bit too. Just keep on living. Let's get at it. Let's go. All right. So today we are going to talk about, does marriage make you more valuable? So this is a real good one because sometime we've been conditioned to believe. The only way we are worth something in life is that I am attached to another person. I am not successful unless I have a husband or a wife, a couple kids. Um, we don't talk enough about.
Being just an individual, you know what success looks like as one person instead of 2, 3, 4, 5. So you're going to get everybody's perspective on this question. And I think we going to start out today probably with Joe, Joe, what you think, does marriage make you more valuable? Um, no, I think that it's the opposite. A lot of people lose value in marriage. And the reason I say that is because. You don't, I believe you need to marry yourself before you can marry anybody else.
And when I say that, when you marry yourself, you, you, you know who you are completely. You kind of get what I'm saying. And so when we're like we talked about in our class today, when you look for an outside source, uh, and you look at outside of yourself for who you are, then you begin to, you begin to degrade yourself. You do things that you don't, you really wouldn't do. Um, you know, So you're going to marriage. You lose yourself, you lose who you, where they are.
And that's how a lot of marriages break up because people, they, they downgrade themselves in marriage, which do you lose your value in? So I know that's what we went through in our marriage for years. And luckily we were just able to communicate it out that we weren't, that we weren't happy because a lot of times we, we weren't who we really are. We had changed and we had a lot of other stuff come into her to hurt.
We were hurting ourselves so badly that it began to portray into each other and we didn't know how to express that sometimes for ourselves. So like a lot of times we couldn't express it. We just didn't know. We weren't, we didn't understand what was going on. And so when Shauna wanted her self care journey, she began to work on herself.
That's when it began to open our eyes, that like, we lost our value of who we were and so hurt people, hurt people and don't realize that we don't it, you know, so that's, that's my, my viewpoint on, on, does it make you more valuable? It can be a valuable situation. Yeah. If you go in knowing exactly who you are, what you want, what your standards are, what you believe, you kind of go sand and that way. The communication piece comes in and you can communicate that with the other person.
I didn't know. That was too young. Right. So for our listeners, how long have you guys been married? Could it be 16 coming up? Yep. That's beautiful. So what age did you guys get married? It was 20 21, 21, 22, 21. I think I was 22. No, you were 21. I was 22, something like that. Cause, uh, before we die we were freshmen. Or sophomore in college, freshman in college. I think you guys have a different perspective probably than a lot of people because you grew up together. We did.
So that probably made things even more, extremely hard. Cause you didn't know who you were and then you're trying to be something that you probably were conditioned to believe as a who you were supposed to be. And as a man, what is that? A provider? A provider. Yeah. Did we answer that question? I'm just, sorry. Did we answer the question? Uh, or did he say, um, what he was conditioned to believe?
I know he said, he said, no, for me growing up, I was like, you said, a provider I just provide, provide, provide. And, but being a man to me is able to be making decisions. If you to be a leader of a household sometimes, and I wasn't conditioned to make decisions. And so I lacked in that area because I lack self-confidence I lacked, uh, I just didn't see. I didn't, I didn't get a lot of examples of strong men making decisions and how to do those things. You kind of get what I'm saying.
And a lot of it was my immaturity too. I didn't want to take the responsibility, you know, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't want to. And so I had a lot of growing up to do so she made a lot of decision. Um, what she was getting tired of. That's what I'm saying, man. All day to have you had a child and then you had married somebody that was supposed to be your partner, who was also a child. I was taking care of two boys before 25 before age 25. Yeah. But yeah.
Were you tell me a little bit about your conditioning on marriage and your thoughts on marriage? So I was already taught and conditioned to do that. So I didn't see anything wrong with it. I was taught to, um, be there as a wife. And even though I tried very hard to be against it because. I was conditioned to it. My, my parents that might and uncle that raised me. And, but my mom was conditioning me to be this independent woman. So there was so much the fight bank homemaker versus hot girls.
Right. Right, exactly. So it wasn't. To the finish. And I was like, uh, even though as much as I did want to, and then I would find myself being very combative because I'd be like, yo, you need to grow up. You need to do this. But then at the other time, I'm like, when he decides to make a decision, I be like, now what you're doing, you didn't think that through that, wasn't a good decision. So, um, here I go, rescue him.
Okay. And I just felt like, well, that was my part to do anyway, you know, because, and then I'm told that, you know, you know how he is, you know, and this is his man telling me, like, you know how he is, you know, you just got to help him out, you know, because other than that, he, he's not going to do so. I'm like, alright, so I guess this is my part to play at least two. To help him, you know, do what he supposed to do.
And here I'm listening and in my eyes and the other ear, like, you know, you need to be there for him. You know, he's providing, he's taking care of who you need to, you know, put yourself aside the stuff that you want to do, because you need to take care of that baby, and you need to be there for that husband. So do you think when you guys got married at 21 and 22, that marriage make you more valuable? When you look back, did she think that I got a hook, like, Hey, up to stars, I'm married.
It didn't. But it was like, now that I look back at it, like you had told me today, like, you know, becoming a teacher, becoming a, um, doing all the other things that I did in life. When I looked back at it, it made me grow. You know, I think life would've put me in situations to where I had to, but being with her, brought out so many of the things that I didn't know. You know what I'm saying? That word, that needed growth that needed, that needed that work, you know?
And she brought a lot of those. I think that's where it made. It made us viable because we stuck in it and it made us grow to the point to where it was like, look in order for this to work, someone has to change, you know what I mean? But it may self-value grow. It made me realize who I am. Who I really was because like she said, they were like, you know, if you don't help him, you don't do this stuff. He's not going to, you know, do it himself. I didn't know.
Like I didn't, when I was 21, I didn't look, I didn't realize how baby I was. Mm. You thought she was the ground, man. I thought it was a grown man. Back then. I did, you know, man, I got a full scholarship and playing football. But I didn't really understand what it meant to be a leader of a household. You know what I'm saying? I didn't understand what it meant to take full responsibility to actions, because at that point, people were already taking care of me.
Everybody was taking care of me, everything, not everything that I ever needed was put on my plate. You kind of get what I'm saying. Yes. I worked, I worked hard and everything I needed was put on there. So. 200 bucks. You know, my grandma always gave me money. You know, if I need it, if I need it, this, my grandma will always provide. She was like, you know, cause you're going to make you to do great days. You're going to do this. So I worked, I worked, I worked, I worked.
That's what I would do. I mean, I've worked is nothing for me to work, you know, 18 hours a day, come home, pick up. Do that, you know what I mean? That was easy because I thought I associated work with them. And you associate working hard with value. Yeah. Valuing me and valuing my family. Of course. Cause you, you were conditioned to believe that the only way you can be a man is to be a provider, but nobody taught you about emotional aspect. No, no, no, no emotional things that you need.
That's what brings value. Not at title of husband and wife. And that's why. It's it's scary for men. You feel empty. A lot of men don't talk about that and I wish they would, but they feel empty because at the end of the day, the job don't mean shit. It's like, it brings you no value at the end of the day, you go bust your ass for these people, but you kind of get what I'm saying, but as you go, you go to the place that really keep you where you, where you should really care and feel love.
It's it's hard. It's, it's hard because. You don't know how to express those emotions. You get what I'm saying? And it's built up, we built up and built up, you know, and it's scary because I've seen a lot of, you know, got good guys, commit suicide over a lot of these things. Cause there's stuff that they don't want to talk about and it's in there so well, we've, we've also, we haven't had.
As women either, because we think you guys have all the answers that you, you know, you have all the emotional part, we assume just because you have a penis, he is now a man and that we can do this, this and that. But a lot, a lot of people aren't talking about, well, how did they learn? Who taught them? What does that look like? I know in your situation, you come from a two parent home. So you got to see something a little different than a lot of black households do not get to see.
So people learn to be me and from their mamas. And what they mama tell him what a man is and what a man is not. And it's always heavy on being a provider, but the world has shifted black women. We, we earned more money than y'all. So at this point, we like, well, what else should I bring into the table? Besides that? That's true. I can't be dating. Right. I'm glad I ain't dating right now. We talk his shit. At least you can do is open the door and, uh, you know, pull out my chair.
Cause at this point, because. Yeah. Like I became like a more, it was told to me that he became valuable or thought that I was valuable because at least I'm yeah. And his situation was more in a privileged than where I was. So it was like, well, he's getting one. He was the only reason why I actually got out of Virginia or ever got on a plane. Let's say that because I've never been on a plane until I was married with him.
And he, he was like my Knight in shining armor to get me out of the situation, the drama, the issues of my family. Bump at that time, he literally was. And that's, you know, what I saw at the time, cause I was like really going through some things. So yeah, even though this was occurring, I got a chance to move and it was through his, you know, you know, his family and his connection is how I was able to make some moves and that if I decided to.
Um, start doing for me that, that was, I mean, not to say that I still had the mentality. I can do bad all by myself, but at the same time, I was also thinking about, well, my child. So now I have to think about literally doing bad and well, put it as bad. Let's say that to where it will look as if I have to struggle first in order to thrive without him, because he seems to have the connections to be able to thrive.
That's exactly how it was, how it was glad that you're being transparent and honest, because I think a lot of times people assess marriage with someone saving them. It happens like you come and rescue rescuing me. You're saving me. And sometime they ignore a lot of other signs, but he, what you think, um, does marriage make you more valuable? What did you think at age? Let's say 25 versus the age you are, right? Yeah. At 25, like what Joe said, I grew up in a traditional background too.
So go to school, get married, get a job, all that stuff. But what you just said about somebody saving you? I had never, I guess, until you said that it didn't really hit me. That to an extent, being married to a man saved me from the questioning of my own identity. That's good. So, um, Uh, you know, and it did bring value. Huh? So you saw yourself as more valuable, right? Yeah, because of, and is attached, attached to people's opinion of me.
So what I noticed even thinking about this conversation was that when I was networking, if I was out and about or whatever, just to say, oh, my husband, my husband is my husband that, oh, I need to talk to my husband. Oh my spouse. That or that, it just, it made me feel. Value more valuable, but it was a false sense. You know what I mean? A hundred percent. Um, thank the Lord. I'm divorced now. So, uh, that's just, there you go. Now, rest in peace. Um, but yeah, it was bad. That's it for me?
So I don't think that it, it, it makes you more valuable to be married and it did not. And it took going through that experience for me to see that, that my value is beyond that. So like when you were in the, in the. Did you see that? When did you start realizing that this is not valuable for me? You kind of get what I'm saying. Did you feel like you could change it or you felt like I just gotta get out of this or?
Hmm. I would say that hat not because what happened with, with art, with our breakup and the dissolve of our marriage was he was the one that told me I don't want to be married anymore. I don't want to do this. And sometimes it's scary to have this thought, but I will say I will probably still be married. You will. He not had he not said that I would have just found a way to just keep making it work because traditionally that's what you do. Yes. You married 20, 30 years.
Part of our marriage, we're going to get through this. And I was like a partial. I cried her. She's like, why are we doing this? I had to remind you who you were. Wow. Oh, that was huge because I remember telling Jen, I was like, what's going on? She's like, all right, what do you need me to do? What's the guy out? Like when he got back up his stuff, she was at worst of reasons for me in that moment, because my, my own value was just so tied up and just be the marriage and.
The reason I had listed this question is one of our topics, because I know so many women that are black women that are around my age, who think that they're not valuable because a man hasn't chosen them yet. And I'm always like, whoa, what? Wait. And I don't have like a checkoff list of things I have to get through to life to make me successful. And I think a lot of times, well, I know several women that are like, I want to get married. I'm almost 40 years old and no one has married me.
They like, and they're holding on to that. Like that brings them value. That's going to make their credit score, go up. That's going to get them in that dream home. And I'm like, well, girl, you can do all of that to me. Um, um, a life partner or a spouse or a husband is in a way a assessory. I don't think another person should be able to complete you. Right. A person can complete me. You're adding on some of my life.
He's not truly like an earring, but he's probably more of a really great pair of shoes. Well, And even, you know, through my John, the con, even when I think back of that. Yeah. I wasn't thinking of Jenna. People are going to see you, um, differently, because now you have a husband. I thought more of me and my boys are going to have this great person. That's how I got myself wrapped up in. That was, oh, my children. I have a man in the home. It didn't, he didn't have to give me the fake rink.
It was just like, oh, this is great. We get along. He's, you know, he's tidy. He, it wasn't the red flags. It was. It wasn't oh, I'm going to be married. My, you know, my score is going to go up. Someone's going to see me valuable. It was what I thought about for my children. But one thing I remember asking my boss, when I got engaged, everybody was like, congratulations, congratulations. Congratulations. I should have known then that I'd probably never get married.
I remember asking Theresa, like, why do you keep telling me congratulations? I got him. Hmm. I was like, I've done so many other things in life that no one called and said congratulations. So to be calling me and texting me and inboxing me, I'm so happy for you. I'm so proud. I was like, cause of, uh, a man. I guess I'm not sharing enough with y'all baby. I did more than that this morning. No, ma'am it's just an extra loss. That was my thought. It is funny casing. I have a question for you.
Have you always been this way though? Like just knowing who you were as a person before you're a John Ocon before, just, and I say this, because like you said, your only value is simply because of your kids that made you kind of like, woo. You know, Need a man where other people is because they see it as like, uh, a need. You saw him as an accessory, but has this always been, is this what she was taught or condition? No, my mother raised me to be someone's wife. I mean, at age 10 or 11.
I knew how to clean everything in the house. I knew how to earn my dad's pants. I knew how to earn his shirts. He used to pay me, um, I knew how to cook. I knew how to write out a menu. So it was, and my mom would also have these conversations of when she was teaching me to cook that you don't make two starches. You don't want that's too much.
Fatty MIS for your family when you have, she would say, when you have a husband, you're going to want to cook this or cook this like him, but you have to realize my dad's mom, my grandmother taught my mom to be a wife. So they got to get, my mom was really young when she got with my dad. Migraine. My granny. That's what we call the grainy. Granny taught my mom what my dad likes to eat. All my mother knew was what my daddy likes. So my mom told me what she thought my husband would like.
So a lot of people think that you graduate high school, you go off to college, you get married and then you have children. I was taught that I was supposed to. Get married college would be great, but my man is supposed to take care of me. He is the head of the household. He's gonna figure all that out. So what did you just buck against the system? So, okay, so you just got a divorce and I said, okay, saw my dad, how my daddy controlled my mother with money.
And my mother taught us nothing but independence once my parents split up. So when I was 13, it was nothing, but you have to take care of yourself. Nothing in life. You have to only depend on you. It was like, you know, girls, I don't want you to ever have to ask a man for a tampon money. I remember my mama telling me that, wow. And my dad also wanted my mom not to work and she never would quit. She didn't have to work. We come from a middle middle-class home. Right.
My mom could stay home and she could volunteer, but my mom was like, I'm gonna go to work every day because he was already controlled. And it was stuff I didn't know. But you know, she was like, you don't ever want to have to ask a man, can you go to, you know, get money by Tampa?
So you think your mom would change her teaching as though she had said, but a lot of that stuff is still in me about, you know, how I move around a man and I do tend to, I can't say cater, but when I'm in a relationship, I tend to, I want him to be able to lead. I don't want no bitch ass, man. I'm tired of being in charge. I'm in charge every day. Can somebody please be in charge of something? God damn pleased. I'm tired. But yeah, that's what my mom. She taught me.
And you know, now we have conversations and how I view men and how my mom view men. You know, when I was in Oklahoma in may, she said, I just, she said, I'm not as strong as you. And I said, mom, I learned to be strong from you. Do you feel like you'll chill? If that man decided to take charge, would you be, you are already being, you know, you have one display of where you're this person. Like I can do bad all by myself. I can do good by myself, I by myself. But you have that display.
Do you feel like you'll be able to be humbled enough if that man decides to play his part and do the things? Cause I think women would be like, yo, we want this. But then at the same time, we be like, wow. You know, um, I've been, no, wait, you gotta come a little bit correct. Before you can start, you know, being in control. So sometimes we're like, we're, we're very cautious on how we allow them to control. So we, yeah.
Want to take the special type of personality for me, it takes a special, a different type of man. I mean, they all out there, you found, they come like buses. Boom. Gotcha. They do. They do. They do. But do I allow a man to lead? Yeah. If he got leader qualities. Okay. There's a lot of men, they show up. There's a lot of me and they show up that thing because they have a penis that they are the man that they're automatically a leader. But if I can't trust you, I can't trust you. Right.
But that person tend not to hang around me. If you're looking for someone you can control and give you full trust is probably going to be a little bit. Well, that takes time. That takes time and you have to show me. And I started saying like, with, with us, It was a, I think it was a block in communication first. And it was a, it was a time thing that had to gain gained the trust of being able to make correct decisions.
Well, 16 years of marriage and set in 18 years being together, we went through some stages, life stages of. Perspectives learning, uh, just being humble, not being humble. We went through some changes, like no way to understand our own value, because I think we just didn't know who we were or who we were supposed to be. Like for the longest I lived through other people's perspectives and other people's lenses. I just, and I say that because I did what I was told.
I did what was shown to be well, what didn't work out for everyone else. So my mother who was not married to my father showed that. Okay. Uh, so I can't be acting like her, you know, I can't be doing it. I can't be, uh, I can't be outgoing and I can't be dismissive. I have to be humble. So when I do, or if I choose cause to my aunt, I was like, Oh, I'm not going to get married. And that's what I told her.
So I guess I'm not going to get married because I'm not all about, I was taught just like you to iron cook, clean take care of say what was telling me this. I was this prayer like told her straight up. I will not be getting married if that's what he expected. Not for me. I was like, I don't cook. I was the first I know about, I only know about the cooking. I told him, let me tell you straight up. YOKA you ain't go get me. Because I don't cook, but I will shoot.
The house will always be straight and your kids will always be good, but cook it. And her, his sister did not like me for that. She's like, yup. Yup. They make us plate. Didn't do that either. I like to cook. So I mean, they would tell me to get up and shine. Plate? Yes. You asked me a good question. Like about my mom. It wasn't that once they got divorced that she taught me something different. She gave me independence. It wasn't, don't be a wife don't you don't do this, this and this.
It was just the flip of have your own money. Because that's how my father controlled her was the money game, but that stuff was still inside of me is deep. Once you grow still is. So when you ask about fixing plates, absolutely to this day, this, even this very independent version of Jenna Who else don't fix it? Nope. I'd be looking to have my plate made the kids play me Southern man. I love Southern men and they, they are conditioned to believe.
I believe that too, but men be, they not tripping on. She gotta make my plate. I wish somebody would. You got to make my plate. I'll be like, you're a star. I don't mind. Oh, they are absolutely out there. They just are not for me or someone else and whoever they are. I hope they find each other soon. So we go through it person and you meet their spouse and be like, y'all have to stay together. take one, take one. I'll make it work with your sorry ass man. We don't want to be him in the streets.
But you said there were, there was a point that you had said about. Your values kind of like when marriage based on what other people. So I know one thing that would catch us up in our relationship, and this is a valuable point. I think that sometimes which what works for other couples does not necessarily work for us. And so sometimes, um, we would base, okay, let's do this because it worked for them.
And we would stick, try to stick to that young in our marriage, thinking that was going to work for us. You kind of go to the Sandberg because. I read books, read books about what it is, and instead of communicating what we felt and how we really, really were, you know, that really fixes it, the issues, because then at that time you can pick the best solution for who you are. So it caused a lot of invaluable.
Things in our marriage, because we were looking at other people's values in their mirrors that worked for them. Instead of, instead of, instead of, instead of our own looking at it to yourself for yourself. Did you have that experience to P that you looked at other people to see what your marriage should look like? Yeah, I did. I did definitely look to other people, other examples, especially like the pastor and the first lady type stuff, you know, in a church.
But it, you know, I, in thinking about this conversation too, I feel like, yes, well actually, no being married does not make you more valuable, but I think marriage as an institution, as a work can create value in another person because of the emotional maturity and work, it takes just to be an individual in a relationship. I love that I love that because I don't want people to hear what I'm saying here and think that I'm saying anti-marriage, that's not not.
And then people will ask me, Jenna, what you get married. Absolutely. If it fits, I'm not anti-marriage, I'm just saying I don't found find my value in others. Yes. Outside of marriage outside of my job, I find value in me. That's how your shot job. I'm not waiting for you to validate me in anything in life. And that took growth. So, no, I was not always like this. I had to go through a lot of things to be like that doesn't feel good. That feels great.
That's the good thing about waking up everyday in your right mind? I could decide what I want to entertain and what I don't exactly. Took my brother. Who else who is not married? me. Shauna. Why does your happiness lion Joe, come on brother now. Like how, like you speaking. I did not, I did not have an answer for him because he's like, it sounds to me cause not the Shonda that I know that you are happiness relies in him. And why is that? Why. Why don't, you know yourself.
Um, and I was, I was Paul's sometimes even, even that was a burden on it. That's a burden on the other person. It was heavier. I was walking around here, like, oh, shit, what, what you don't come up and do for real light, because it's to the point where it's like, how could I'm, you know, make Kashi everything, you know, She would, she would say it without saying it that my, her happiness relied on him. Oh my God. That is so pressure. It was pressure and soul. That's what I'm saying.
So I'm walking right here. Freaking off, like fuck up every day, like on eggshells, like, you know what I'm saying? Like waking up all guy, what, you know, you know what I mean? The tennis summit. Let me get to that. That's interesting that I didn't, um, I think that in, in my marriage, once I came to this realization that I don't need to depend on you for my happiness actually verbalize that. To him. And it was like, he couldn't hear it. It was like the opposite effect. It wasn't pressure.
It was like, wait, what do you mean? They're not looking to me for happiness. And it's funny that you say that because they brought me, I wrote down on my notes. I had the same conversation with my cousin. Uh, one of my older cousins, not last Christmas, the one before, when I went home. And at that time, him and his wife were going through things. I ended up getting divorced, which it was needed.
They just grew up together married 21, 22 years since been together since they were 16, five kids, like they've done everything and I'm like, it's just outgrown. And he, and I'm like, well, Roger, what do you like to do? What makes you happy? And he was like, as long as my family happy, I'm happy. And I was like, bro, that's a whole lot of pressure on yourself. Yes. He was like, he literally was like, I go to work. I make sure my family is taken care of and they can buy whatever they want.
And I was like, wait, what, but hence why go ahead and so unhappy. And he was like, I don't care about my happiness as long as my wife and my family are happy. That's that's conditioned talking like that sounds best stuff. Sounds good. That's something that. You know, with her happy. Yes. She then think about it.
That's what I said earlier on like a lot, like you see a lot of men commit suicide because then Christmas comes around, you know, all these things come around and money, you lose jobs, you lose this. And when my happiness is tied up in the success of, yeah. And that's what my job, my value is at my job. I'm done. I'm done. What do you need me for? Exactly. Get what I'm saying. And at that point, you're, you're, you're worthless.
And when you come to that point of feeling worthless as the worst feeling ever, man, and I will look at that, look at those things now. And that's why I'm early in my marriage. I would tell shine a light. I'll always encourage you to go get a degree, go get this book because who knows what's gonna happen.
Yes. And in the same time of you telling me to encourage you as also worried about like, when I did cause I'm we sat down and we talked, he's like, yo, when you do, you know, I'm going to sit, like, what do you need before? Like, I was scared. I would verbalize that though. Yeah, no I'm saying you did. And it would just be more of a, like, you know, I want you to. But at the same time, I don't know what will happen if you do.
Cause then I won't because he did see himself as a provider, he did see himself and he did do it. And he, and he saw where, you know, he made it his, his job to create a life for me that he saw that I didn't have. It sat on both ends. It varies on both because that's what he took on. That's what he took on to make sure that he, because that's what he saw. And then that's where he was conditioned to do. That's what he knew.
So when he's sitting here trying to find himself, he's fighting and we're fighting, cause I'm sitting here saying to him at the same time, like, yo, do what you have to do. But at the same time, I'm also dependent on you. You know? And if I, and if we just be real, like I see what you're trying to do, but at the same time, you can't really talk to me because of the way that I am not able to hear you.
I mean, I'm just feeling like everything you're coming off is really attack, attack, attack in the same way with me communicating to him, the communication was okay. Because we're both trying to basically give each other's what I'm trying to do, help you in your insecurities. And you're trying to help me in my we're enabling each other in this marriage and we're expecting the other person to do the same and not even knowing, because once again, not aware. Of what we're doing.
We're just thinking that this is the way it is. This is, this is how it's supposed to be. This is, you know, I'm posed to help you. Marriage is marriage. This is what marriage. Then at that time did drain in each other's value. Your value is going down. You're just draining you, just giving yourself away. You give yourself what you're giving yourself and that's not how marriage is supposed to be. You're supposed to be filling yourself up that way when we're together, man, we're a powerhouse.
It's a true partnership that I need you to come as a, I think in my mind, you need to be whole and I need to be home. And then we can come together and if it works, it works and, and being whole, I think is a continual process. Right? So growth is a part of that. And I think that it might just be that in my own marriage. Now, I don't know if this is true. Exactly, but maybe it just was that we just were not on the same page when it came to that. Like, I'm the type of person I embrace growth.
I love like just, just going for it and just being a better version of myself. But if the other person is not for whatever it looks like for them, and they're not, it just, it's going to create. Confusion chaos, like all kinds of stuff I wrote down, as you had said earlier in, is that what you said? I said, you know, both have to want to work on it in order for it to happen.
And I know throughout our, our ma, even though we would go through our hardest times, we would sit with each other and be like, look, I love you to death. Like, I want this to work. Can we just figure out a way to have this work? You kind of get what I'm saying, and we would always communicate with that with each other. And so even at the hardest times when we were going through, we understood good. The love that we had for each other.
And, um, so it made it a lot easier to keep pressing forward in knowing that we had in there sounds, we talked about, you know, calling it quits, we weighed our options. We would sit down and be like, okay, literally write down. What's so good about this. Write down. What's so bad about, we watched that, uh, Tyler Perry movie, you know, Mary, I wrote that question down when we talked about questions. I like, why do people get married? Right. Why, why get married?
Um, At this age, why would I get married? I feel like someone is adding to my life. Um, back to that assessory um, when I thought about marrying the John, the, I was like, this was fine and that's important for me. If I'm going to get married, um, the security side. I would, that was one of the, you know, the finance part was really hard for me to wrap my brain around. I was in therapy about that bad boy. Like, you want me to discuss finances with him? Depend on finances.
Never I'd rather eat a scab. Um, yeah. So when I think about what if I to get married today, what would they, what would that look like? Hm. I can give you a list of what I needed in a partner, but then again, I'm like, Ooh, I kind of like when people go home, I don't know. That's a hard question for me to answer. Cause I like when people go home. Yeah. My shoes, you like your scab. It's mainly because of, I don't know.
Would you see that as a condition because of what you've experienced and seeing with your family and your mom was just like, Don't, you know, you don't depend on anyone and also, you know what you've been through. Do you see that as a condition? Because say that it's not a condition it's it's trauma. Gotcha. That's what we call it. Trauma. And I go to therapy to work out my trauma. Do I think there's someone out there that's lovable. I may find a life partner. Absolutely. Am I open to that?
Yes. Am I looking for that? No. Yeah, I've decided to live. And if you show up and it work out is great because I don't seek value in that. It's not on my list. I don't feel like I'm less than because I don't have a husband and I've never had a husband. And sometimes people will be like, oh, you're not married or you never been married. Why, why, why? And I'll be like, what. Why do I have to have a marriage or divorce? Right. Does that make you feel better about your situation?
Yes. That's just the insecurity it's projecting and it makes me ask them more questions. Right? Do you see value in marriage or other people? And once you get to that, that's the, really the meat of the issue. I'm like, no. I think we're also finding this value that we're we're talking about is just basically trying to understand, understand I love the way you say as a necessity, but it's also like, as you're starting to get to know who you are as a person, that how valuable you are.
And that's the amazing thing like me being with this person is not me trying to really find value because I already know value. This person is encouraging my value, you know, applying my value, but I have to know it first. And it was good. Cause because we made this conversation about just knowing and not knowing, because if you don't know your value and you're looking for applause from everyone else, when that person is no longer giving that value, you now have. The thought of your value.
You actually lose yourself. You lose yourself, not your value, baby. You lose your entire BS and wrapped up into what society thinks you should be or what that person should be in. And when you don't have. When you don't know who you are, you're easier to manipulate and control. And those people look for you. They look for you. That's that therapy. Let me close those doors. How I ended up with a John It was so many doors I hadn't closed and they just feed it. They find it.
So I had to close them. I had to learn, it was a painful lesson, but it was needed because if it wasn't, if it wouldn't have been Jonathan, it would have been someone else to teach. So shout out to Jonathan, you raised my value. Yeah. that's J O N I'm very naive to a lot of that stuff. So like, when I, when I saw that I'd be like, damn people really do that. You know what I'm saying? And it was crazy. So if you have not seen that, it must go watch that.
I didn't check that out yet, but, but the bags like the value, I just, I don't know. Maybe it's like mark that because here it is. If you don't go into a relationship knowing who you are, Knowing you're confident, then this is where we're going to be basically fall off. I don't I now, and I think it just took some time to even develop who I was as a person before I started to see. And I, and I've always displayed as, as we've been going through our stages of marriage. Also been knowing that.
You know, people always like what God meant for us to be, you know what I'm saying? But what they're, they're literally a lot of things. Yeah. Yes. If we're asked to be, he would, he was the person, you know, that I was supposed to be with, you know, you never would have made it. Right. Okay. So what I was saying was. It's what is what we assume, but it's like what we're losing. And, and I saw also in my marriage is the fact that my purpose, that Shawna purpose was done.
It was, it was dimming the light that I was supposed to give amongst the world was literally because here he's in dreamer. I love, I love you baby, but he's a dreamer. He's a creator. And that's just where it is. So he is a person that's ready to up and go. And I'm like, hold on. Where's the plan? Where, what are you doing? Like we said, we were going to do this, this, this.
What is going on and he's like, well, I decided to now join the Navy after going to school for three years and decided that I really know why for what? Like, are we about to stop everything? Because here now I'm going my vision. Well, my plan was to go into, to become a nurse. After you finished school, you finished school. We got the house. We're good. You're doing okay. You know, teachings about the change.
And now we want to go into the Navy and I felt like this is going to prosperous better because so-and-so told me about this dream. And he's, he's definitely your values and my values. No, who I was. Being fed. Somebody puts my elevator buttons poop. Somebody's pushing his elevator buttons. I liked that because that's what, what was going on. And I was literally not trying to go for the ride. I wasn't. I was like, well, what are you doing?
And a lot of times where my elevator button was being pushed was the simple fact to be supportive. Support it, you need to support him. You need to he's, you know, and this is the better direction, you know, allow him, allow him to follow his dream while you, which is not to say allow him. But while you wait to have yours, yours, And that was, that was yes.
Yes. And that's what to value has the vision to support that vision, to be a help meet you are named other two Adam, all that, that took so deep in Shauna, that it was hard for you to step out when it was time for you to go in your, when women, because for so long, even when we were talking. You know, let's do this, let's do that. It was hard for her to have the confidence because it wasn't built out.
I was reading this re listened to some, uh, yesterday, and it was talking about conditioning as a kid where you condition to succeed and be this way, or are not, if you're not, it's going to, it's hard work to, to condition yourself, to be in successful in your field. And so when I first met Shauna, I wrote this down to the main reason that I really want to her because she, she didn't want me. And she, she was. Hold on. Hold on, hold on. I thought I was like, just say she was so comfortable.
Only wanted her. She want me, you want, you want me? I was like, I was like, why? I was like, hold on, like he was like, nah, yo like, you know what I'm saying? So it was a crazy, everybody else getting song. And I'm sitting here like. All right, bro. Like, damn man, I'm on hold my homeys. You know what I'm saying? During thing. But she was like, no, I got, she was like, I got, I got texted money on me and she's like, we're not sharing these blankets. So don't even touch me.
Don't even look at me. Don't do nothing. I'm like, oh, all right. She had on a long skirt. was when I first met her. She had on that cap. It was, it was a wrap. She was like related to. Yeah. But she, she had, she was very confident who she was, but I didn't know that confidence came from fear. Yeah. I didn't know. I didn't know. It came from. So when we started getting to a Meredith, so I'm a very light look. Every let's, let's all eat. Let's all dream vision. Let's go here, do this.
Like, you know, let's do it, do it, everybody can't go, John. I know he tries not trying. And I'm like, but I was always trying to push her to be like, get what you need. You know what I'm saying? Let's like, because get it. But a lot of it was out of fear because she wasn't conditioned to be the, she was, she wasn't conditioned to be Judah. Get it. Cause that means she was winning. Cause she found her value in you. So you going to support him?
I'm a support him because he's got to figure it all out. And then I know I'm a builder. Okay. But deep down inside, she know what she wants. You know what I'm saying? You have the burning desire, you know what you want. Yeah. But deep down inside. But she was like, I, I, you know, too nervous or I'm not worthy enough, I'm not dissonant, but that's that conditioning brings those fears. And so, but we, like, over the years, we've just been able to fight it. And now, you know what I'm saying?
She's getting a thing and going, but that's the thing of value. Like we were talking when, when we're, when we're young, like, you know, what do you re what's really valuable to you? And you need to chase that no matter who you are, man. Woman. No. Oh, that's that's really good. I have a question. I know we're kind of getting towards the end. So would you get married again? Partial? That's a good question. You know, The way that I feel now, I feel, uh, I really agree with okay.
And her relationship was with the Steadman and it's been strong for years and she is somebody who says I'm not wanting to be married. Right. It's just something that she knows about herself. And that's something that I'm just exploring myself right now. I feel like I have a life partner right now. Um, but do we need to get married? Do we have to get married? How would I do that? Like, we'll celebrate three years coming up next month. I just, I just don't see the need for it. I feel like I have.
The, the benefits of kind of like, yeah. You know, growing with somebody. Cause that's what I think marriage is. It is a life partner. I don't have to go and get signed up. Girl. It would be a sheet of paper saying that yeah, you guys can be married. It's like, uh, I just, for me, I don't, I don't think that because you just don't need that answer from everyone else, like, or should I just say, I just don't feel like I need to have that. I don't feel like I need it.
And I think based on what I said before, I, it was something that for me, meant. My value is in other people's, uh, opinion and appearance. I don't need that. It doesn't matter to me anymore. Therefore it's kind of like if it were to happen. Okay. But I don't, it's not something I pursuing or that I'm even expecting. I'm just enjoying my life. And I think. From what I've learned from models and marriage and things like that.
I'm able to just work on myself as an individual with somebody who's trying to do the same. Wow. Wow. Yes, yes. Yes. You feel like it's a commitment though. I just, I'm sorry. I know. I'm just know what I'm trying to say. Do you feel like the paper, people feel like that paper is a con, this is me being committed. Like other than that, I could just have, you know, what is those marriages? They call them Commonwealth marriage. I can just have a Commonwealth marriage and live forever.
I didn't know this until I went to Texas that this was actually something, they call common law, common law marriages, and like, don't need that paper, you know, but I'm common law. So that's, that's good to know enough and actually able to do, but I just want to know, is the paper, the re you know, why, or is it the commitment thing or what. I, I don't, I don't need it. Um, and I think that the paper, the only reason I wouldn't do it is for a legal benefit.
Cause that's what I feel, what legal benefit, which one, because you can, a life insurance policy and put your life partner on that bitch. Partially on, on some of my stuff. Hi legal. I know, I know. I don't know. it would depend on the circumstance and what's needed and what seems like the most, it would be a strategic thing. Okay. Okay. What about your shadow question? One more time? Yeah, if you, what you get married again today, if you guys were not together. You know what? Thank you.
no, I actually will get me married. Oh. But I wouldn't have done it as early. There you go. Good, good response. We weren't married when he wasn't married right now, which you gave me. Uh, I don't, I don't think I, I don't think I would. I wouldn't. And it was a lot of growth. Um, so I, I think this is my only life partner that I should ever, ever be with her. It had to be her. Oh, it had to be, cause I would've killed jealous.
When you first started training us and you talk about the stuff y'all been through, I was like, oh my God, she has to hate you. Oh, a supervisor. She, she was wasn't. She was my, you know, Her ma'am I don't, I can't even, I can't even explain what she has done for my growth and me being able to be who I am today. Yes. Yes. My self development. She brought us so much stuff out of me that needed to be brought out as, as a human. Yeah. Um, no, I think that's what it's supposed to be.
You're supposed to be. And I think that's where that commitment comes from. But what I go through that again, just keep me warm. there was some rough nights, you know, rough nights, man. I remember sitting in a closet, just crying, crying, crying, just because it was a lot of things that I didn't know how to do. And I think these are the things that people need to talk about with marriage.
Like it's a real grandma and granddaddy was married for me and I'll be like, granddaddy had five kids and but tell you that this is just a part of marriage. Come on now, grandma. And they'll tell you the Al and she would tell me, you know, she would think of it. Yeah. Um, Disney movies and saving you again, like to save here. Yeah. GoDaddy, GoDaddy. God said he going to get us through it, but then he's like fights with our work is what Dan, forget the rest of that.
They put everything on GoDaddy. No, it just feels better. Cause you ain't got accepted. So after, after your job. Absolutely. And what I loved about what Jonathan fed me, the version of him that he wanted me to love is that I thought we were on the same page and it was that marriage can be whatever I want it to be. There you go. That's it. One more time. Come on. I get to decide what my marriage looks like. And you know, I've said this before.
I could actually be in a relationship with someone loving and committing. And if he wanted to go sleep with somebody once or twice a year, I am not against it. I don't think that this is the end all and the best he's ever going to have. I think that if that's what the rules are, Then we follow the rules. We get to define what our marriage looks like. I don't want what my mom had. I don't want what you guys had. I don't want what you had.
I don't want that's what I get in a life partner that a person who can communicate, who can say this is how I feel. And they're being honest and transparent and vulnerable. That's who I want to marry, but I don't want to, I don't want a partner who. Sees me as their only life. You and I loved about Jonathan is that he had his own life, which it was a lie. But what he presented was a person who didn't need to be up under me because I don't, I have my own life.
And I don't think because you get married that I'm supposed to stop living because I married you and I need to be at home. No, I'm gonna go to brunch. I'm gonna drink champagne and do shots. I'm a come home and say, Hey, what that mouth do. I'm not going to come to brunch and be like, I can only be here for two hours. Cause my husband said I got to come home and cook dinner. Oh no. Hey. I hope whatever you guys take on. Whoever's listening. Y'all take away from this. Is that.
You are valuable by yourself. Oh yes. Do not seek value in someone else. Do not seek happiness to someone else. You are setting yourself up for failure. You're setting that person up for failure. Yeah, you guys, you got to just keep living as they would say, just keep living just, um, and we will catch you. Okay. Next time next week we'll have a different subject. It will sound just like this.
Send this to whoever you think will find some value who will enjoy us, understand what we're here to do. And just talk about life as granny would say, just keep living and we'll talk to you guys next time. P jeez.